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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    Gun restrictions, red flag, deep dive background...
    What are you talking about? I have CONSISTENTLY said that I am against those things primarily because none of them would even achieve the desired result.

    In fact I pointedly said the only concession I would make if I were Trump is I would push for a federal law making it illegal to open carry a long rifle in any city or town. Bypass the whole question of "is some asshole who's carrying an AR15 into Wal Mart doing so to do something illegal, or is he just being an asshole and so that isn't probable cause to stop him" question right in its tracks.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by STTAB View Post
    What are you talking about? I have CONSISTENTLY said that I am against those things primarily because none of them would even achieve the desired result.

    In fact I pointedly said the only concession I would make if I were Trump is I would push for a federal law making it illegal to open carry a long rifle in any city or town. Bypass the whole question of "is some asshole who's carrying an AR15 into Wal Mart doing so to do something illegal, or is he just being an asshole and so that isn't probable cause to stop him" question right in its tracks.
    Then I apologize, all those posts from yesterday on the topic must be wrong. Check to see if your account was hacked.
    Last edited by Kathianne; 08-14-2019 at 11:54 AM.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    Then I apologize, all those posts from yesterday on the topic must be wrong. Check to see if your account was hacked.
    You may need a new eyeglass prescription because that is exactly what I have posted.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    Would you rather the people committing knife crimes had access to guns instead?

    Why aren’t all these people committing knife crimes committing gun crimes?
    The fact you're overlooking is that gun ownership, as a physical fact, isn't impossible in the UK. All you need to own one, is:

    1. A disregard for the law (yes, criminals qualify !!).

    2. A supplier willing to break the law and supply a gun.

    Are you telling me that this never happens ? That it cannot happen ?

    From the Guardian, Noir (so you know 'it must be true' (!!!) ....):

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rearms-into-uk

    Guns and drugs seized by the National Crime Agency in a cross-Channel investigation. Photograph: NCA/PAPolice and border officials are struggling to stop a rising supply of illegal firearms being smuggled into Britain, a senior police chief has warned.

    Chief constable Andy Cooke, the national police lead for serious and organised crime, said law enforcement had seen an increased supply of guns over the past year, and feared that it would continue in 2019.

    The Guardian has learned that the situation is so serious that the National Crime Agency has taken the rare step of using its legal powers to direct every single police force to step up the fight against illegal guns.

    The NCA has used tasking powers to direct greater intelligence about firearms to be gathered by all 43 forces in England and Wales.

    Another senior law enforcement official said that “new and clean” weapons were now being used in the majority of shootings, as opposed to guns once being so difficult to obtain that they would be “rented out” to be used in multiple crimes.

    Cooke, the Merseyside chief constable, told the Guardian: “We in law enforcement expect the rise in new firearms to continue. We are doing all we can. We are not in a position to stop it anytime soon.
    -- Point made ??

    As for the Edmonton-based example I cited, of a woman BEHEADED ... the maniac responsible wasn't stopped from doing that. Gun ownership, either her own gun or one that a neighbour or family member could've used, could and would have stopped the attack. The attack wasn't stopped, that lady lost her life, BECAUSE the means to stop her attacker wasn't available.

    Noir, the truth here is that you're trying to play a numbers game. Only a Leftie who didn't value individuals can be comfortable in doing that. I say this: you can advance no argument telling me that the victim in this case didn't deserve to live !! Since she DID .. then, she also deserved a means of defence !!

    Thanks to our draconian gun laws, SHE WAS DEPRIVED OF THAT DEFENCE, AND DIED A GRUESOME DEATH, AT THE HANDS OF A MADMAN.

    Will you shrug that off, and further play your Leftie numbers game with peoples' LIVES, Noir ? Or .. could it just be that individual lives MATTER, and deserve not to be under a wholly avoidable threat ??
    Last edited by Drummond; 08-14-2019 at 12:16 PM.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    But the people who are alive who were able to not be within Arms reach of a murderer are alive.
    Perpetuating your 'numbers game' argument, eh, Noir ?

    Here's a thought for you (far more applicable to the sheer stupidity prevalent in the UK, of course) ...

    Criminals don't respect the law. They won't be stopped from obtaining a firearm because a law insists upon it.

    Law-abiding citizens (unfortunately ?) WILL be.

    Can you see that this gives an advantage to any gun-toting criminals out there ? It isn't rocket science, Noir !! (... and even if it were .. there are rocket launchers out there, too !!).

    In a scenario where gun laws are relaxed, the law-abiding citizen gains the advantage of gun ownership, previously restricted or even forbidden. This creates the proper potential for weapons parity between criminal and the majority of citizens. A single armed criminal, in (- say -) an urban / suburban area might enter that area armed, but would do so knowing that any attempt to so much as brandish the weapon could see neighbour after neighbour aiming other weapons right back at the aggressor.

    Result: threat neutralised.

    Yes ? Makes sense ?

    Or, Noir, will your loyalty to anti-gun propagandists on the Left prevent you from conceding the sense in this argument ?

    [.. silly question, really .... eh .. ?]
    Last edited by Drummond; 08-14-2019 at 12:39 PM.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    The fact you're overlooking is that gun ownership, as a physical fact, isn't impossible in the UK.

    ...snipped for brevity...

    Will you shrug that off, and further play your Leftie numbers game with peoples' LIVES, Noir ? Or .. could it just be that individual lives MATTER, and deserve not to be under a wholly avoidable threat ??
    All Noir does is chime in with his leftie, pacifist rhetoric....Then continue then with the question "WHY" to confront each issue.
    A child will continually ask "WHY".

    Noir has not grown up.
    I have lost my mind. If found, please give it a snack and return it?

    "I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same of others"...John Wayne in "The Shootist"

    A Deplorable!

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  9. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elessar View Post
    All Noir does is chime in with his leftie, pacifist rhetoric....Then continue then with the question "WHY" to confront each issue.
    A child will continually ask "WHY".

    Noir has not grown up.
    In fact, Noir is subject to that classic Leftie trap that his kind cannot escape from. It is that he's wedded to a propagandist imperative that he cannot break from.

    Those on the Left only see what they want to see. Their whole 'philosophical' edifice is based on a totally rigid adherence to their preconceived worldview. That their worldview doesn't, and cannot, address real issues in the real world is not only their Achilles' heel, but it also defines their perpetual unfitness to attain positions of real authority over peoples' lives.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

  10. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    In fact, Noir is subject to that classic Leftie trap that his kind cannot escape from. It is that he's wedded to a propagandist imperative that he cannot break from.

    Those on the Left only see what they want to see. Their whole 'philosophical' edifice is based on a totally rigid adherence to their preconceived worldview. That their worldview doesn't, and cannot, address real issues in the real world is not only their Achilles' heel, but it also defines their perpetual unfitness to attain positions of real authority over peoples' lives.
    If you hide under the covers and close your eyes really tight, the boogey man wont get you!
    I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
    Thomas Jefferson


  11. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSM View Post
    If you hide under the covers and close your eyes really tight, the boogey man wont get you!
    Do I detect sarcasm? Do not disabuse me of my safety valve.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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  13. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    Would you rather the people committing knife crimes had access to guns instead?

    Why aren’t all these people committing knife crimes committing gun crimes?
    While NYC has strict gun control laws, it's not London:

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...rol/500328002/

    After murder rate passes NYC, London Mayor Sadiq Khan calls for sharper knife control
    William Cummings, USA TODAY Published 5:23 p.m. ET April 9, 2018 | Updated 6:00 p.m. ET April 9, 2018

    London Mayor Sadiq Khan announced a crackdown on knives Sunday in response to the rising levels of violence in London, which recently surpassed New York City's homicide rate for the first time.


    "No excuses: there is never a reason to carry a knife," Khan tweeted. "Anyone who does will be caught, and they will feel the full force of the law."


    There have been more than 50 homicides in London so far in 2018, and much of the violence is tied to gangs.


    Guns are strictly regulated in the United Kingdom and the rising homicide rate in London is directly attributable to a rise in knife-related crimes, with stabbings claiming at least 31 lives to date in 2018. By contrast, New York — which has a population roughly the same size as London — has seen a steady decline in violent crime.


    There were 15 murders committed in London in February and another 22 in March, while New York saw 14 murders in February and 21 in March, according to murder rate statistics provided to USA TODAY by London's Metropolitan Police and the New York Police Department.

    ...


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


  14. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    Do I detect sarcasm? Do not disabuse me of my safety valve.
    I got a job as a boogey man once....
    I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
    Thomas Jefferson


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  16. #72
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    I don't know if anyone has done this particular study, but I'd be interested to know how many of the "Mass shooters" did not or or were not scheduled to graduate from high school on time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CSM View Post
    If you hide under the covers and close your eyes really tight, the boogey man wont get you!
    Fatal mistake, that .. underestimating the Left ......
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CSM View Post
    I got a job as a boogey man once....
    Did it pay well .. ?

    If I'm going to keep taking Noir on in these threads, I might as well get a salary for it.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    While NYC has strict gun control laws, it's not London:

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...rol/500328002/
    I'm incredulous ! WHAT crackdown ???

    Knife crime, certainly since 2018, is getting worse !! I hadn't heard of any 'crackdown', and I've seen no evidence of one. All Khan does these days is to try and attack our Conservative Government over police funding, and basically refusing to accept responsibility for the extent of those crimes in HIS city, on HIS watch.

    I could wish he'd put as much energy and commitment into trying to tackle knife crime, as he has in attacking President Trump !!

    This is from just two months ago (& it's from the Guardian) ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...atest-stabbing

    Residents of Stratford, east London, have voiced their fears and frustration over rising violence in the area after the fatal stabbing of a man in his 40s in the early hours of Monday.

    The death in Whalebone Lane was one of four suspected murders to occur in four days in London. It followed three homicides in the space of 24 hours, including two teenagers who were killed on Friday evening.

    Ahsan Malik, 59, manager of Olympac internet cafe, yards from where the latest incident took place, described gang-related crime in the area as a “scary situation”. “There’s more knife crime, more drugs,” he said. “I see the police and they’re doing all they can, but they can’t control the young people.”

    Scotland Yard said officers were called by paramedics at about 12.40am and the victim was pronounced dead about 20 minutes later.

    Tina Bowers, 58, who lives about 10 minutes from the scene and whose route home was obstructed by the police cordon on Monday afternoon, said she had stopped going out after dark because of increasing violence on the streets.

    “It’s getting worse. What is going to stop it? Stop and search – that ain’t going to stop it,” she said. Though Bowers felt police were trying their best to tackle crime, she added that declining numbers of youth clubs in the area meant there were more teenagers on the streets.

    Her friend Debra Sparks, 61, was less perturbed about leaving the house at night, but added: “I’ve got my husband and my son, though – and the dog.”

    One man, who declined to give his name, said he had started walking a different route back from his restaurant job near Stratford Park – adjacent to the crime scene – because of “young men hanging around”. “There are drug dealers everywhere – you see them all the time. I don’t know why they’re not scared of this, because the police station is just there,” he added.

    A string of nonfatal attacks also took place over the weekend, including the shooting of a 28-year-old in east London on Monday morning and a stabbing on Saturday that left a 45-year-old in a critical condition.

    On Friday afternoon, an 18-year-old, named in reports as Cheyon Evans, was found stabbed on Deeside Road in Wandsworth, south-west London, and died at the scene.

    A 17-year-old from Merton, who cannot be named for legal reasons, and Mohammed Nadir Dafallah, 18, from Wandsworth, have been charged with murder and were due in court on Monday.

    In the second incident, Eniola Aluko, 19, from Thamesmead in south-east London, was found with critical injuries after reports of a shooting in Plumstead. He too died at the scene.
    Though the attacks are believed to be unrelated, dealing with the incidents had put added pressure on the Metropolitan police, said the London mayor, Sadiq Khan. “Our overstretched police are working around the clock to keep Londoners safe. They need our support to end this scourge of violence.”

    The US president, Donald Trump, lashed out at Khan on Sunday, quoting the far-right commentator Katie Hopkins to accuse him of being “a disaster” over the violence. Trump was criticised for the attack – despite the support of the foreign secretary, Jeremy Hunt, who said he would “150% agree” with the overall statement – but on Monday, some Stratford residents seemed to share resentment toward Khan.

    “It’s alright him going to see the kids when they’re playing football, but I’ve never seen him around here when something happens,” said Sparks. “He is useless.”
    Last edited by Drummond; 08-14-2019 at 02:16 PM.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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