Originally Posted by manfrommaine
Gunny's nightmare
Banned
and you have a very silly argument claiming that your trip to the VA to get records for your uncle gives you a comparable understanding of the Navy to someone who served an entire career. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the sole surviving Kennedy brother - a junior senator from MA - exerted any influence on the career of a young LTJG from his state.You have a very weak argument claiming that the Navy would not be subject to political pressure from a none other than a Kennedy.
Gunny's nightmare
On political influence:
http://www.newswithviews.com/Ryter/jon34.htmThe Personal Casualty Report from that day indicates that Kerry suffered from a slight shrapnel wound to the buttocks and a bruise on his right forearm, but the citation report claims Kerry suffered a wound to his forearm that was bleeding and in pain. Kerry's skipper, Lt. Commander Grant Hibbard, told the Boston Globe that Kerry's "wounds" were too minor to qualify for a Purple Heart. Nor was it clear to him that Kerry's boat had even come under direct enemy fire. Hibbard refused to submit Kerry's name, but Kerry went around him. Hibbard told the Globe he received some correspondence about it, and rather than take the heat, he stopped resisting. "I finally said," Hibbard told the Globe, "if that's what happened...okay. Do whatever you want...Obviously he got [the medals]. I don't know how."
…
The American people need to decide in their own minds whether or not Lt. jg John F. Kerry deserved the citations he received in Vietnam; or if he created—as his critics claim—a citation mill specifically de designed to recommend medals for himself and his crew. Clearly, Kerry's superiors seemed to think well of him. But it must be noted that Kerry, as a member of a Bay State blueblood family with important political connections, had enough clout through his family to impact the careers of his superior officers—even as a lowly junior grade lieutenant. There is no doubt his commanding officers knew that as well. So, the endorsements of his superior officers may be discounted as politically biased.
On Kerry’s affiliation with the Kennedy family:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...54C0A9629C8B63In the summer after his graduation from boarding school at St. Paul's in New Hampshire, he had kept a date with an occasional girlfriend, Janet Auchincloss, Jacqueline Kennedy's half-sister, at Hammersmith Farm, the Auchincloss estate in Rhode Island.
There Mr. Kerry met John F. Kennedy, his political idol; a few weeks later, he watched the America's Cup race with the president's party aboard the Navy destroyer Joseph P. Kennedy.
Banned
oh...I see. YOu belong to the RSR school of evidence. Editorials are fact in your world.
But it must be noted that Kerry, as a member of a Bay State blueblood family with important political connections, had enough clout through his family to impact the careers of his superior officers—even as a lowly junior grade lieutenant. There is no doubt his commanding officers knew that as well.
that is unsupported bullshit. the navy simply does not work that way. senior officers in the navy would not fake awards documentation for a young JO for fear of attacks on their own careers by politicians...
Senior Member
Holy Time Warp, Batman....why is this thread about Kerry and Bush?
...full immersion.....
Gunny's nightmare
The portions of the article cited includes quotes from Kerry's skipper, Lt. Commander Grant Hibbard. Any editorializing comes later in that article.
Apparently the Navy is subject to the same political shenanigans as any other government agency that I have been involved with. Or am I supposed to believe not, simply because you say otherwise?
Gunny's nightmare
manlivesinshame simply can't get away from defending his boy Kerry.
Banned
and yet Hibbard claims absolutely no political pressure was put on HIM by the Kennedys.
odd
Gunny's nightmare
Only the most naïve would think it to be odd for a CO to avoid having to “take the heat” on an obvious political maneuver that he has no hope of preventing.
Who do you suppose Kerry contacted to get “around” Hibbard? It would be interesting to see the correspondence that Hibbard received about the issue.Hibbard refused to submit Kerry's name, but Kerry went around him. Hibbard told the Globe he received some correspondence about it, and rather than take the heat, he stopped resisting.
Of course, Kerry could unseal his records and shed some light on this if he wanted to.
Banned
all baseless suppositions.
Kerry's SF 180 was signed.
Gunny's nightmare
SF 180 merely gets the records to Kerry. When will the public be allowed to see them?
Banned
he released them to his newspaper of record. you'll need to ask them.
Gunny's nightmare
Looks like he cleaned out the file cabinet before releasing the record: "The file includes a previously reported reference to Kerry being treated for the wound and that he was awarded the Purple Heart, but it does not address the details of the combat that night. No after-action report for the incident has been found." http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...dical_records/
Last edited by glockmail; 05-13-2008 at 12:21 PM.
Banned
you story is from april 2004.
He signed his SF180 after that.
Gunny's nightmare
Try again.
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