That'll Show 'Em

[Kathianne]

It's 2024, not 2020. Time to move on.

Yep. Choices made. Regrets expressed where thought appropriate. I for one never hassled anyone to do as I thought. Period.

[SassyLady]

Actually the definitions of words do negate it as presented.

"... the cancer incidence has gone up in Japan just due to the vaccine program. They've correlated it absolutely beautifully. "

Correlation is not causation. I thought you gave some credence to the Great Barrington Declaration. If I'm not mistaken it drew a line between not going to regular doctor appointments with increases in other diseases/cancer?.

I didn't get that from reading the Declaration. It basically said lockdowns are harmful because it reduces herd immunity.

I believe that the vaccine has caused AIDS to escalate and more cytokine storm events which allows cancer to proliferate.

Healthy people dying suddenly is starting to be linked to the overactive immune system that the mRna shots are causing.

But you belive what you want.

[SassyLady]

Your example indicates you don't really understand the scientific question. I recall you posted something about ivermectin and Uttar Pradesh ages ago and your claims didn't really pan out.

They didn't?

[SassyLady]

Yep. Choices made. Regrets expressed where thought appropriate. I for one never hassled anyone to do as I thought. Period.

Posting info is not hassling ... it's informing. People here post info quite a bit that I find redundant but I don't denigrate them for it. Maybe someday something they post will click and open a little crack of understanding. I don't tell them to move on just because I don't agree with the info.

[SassyLady]

Shouldn't the standard be things that are factual?

Depends on who decides what the facts are. Government deciding what is true and then censoring those who post facts they don't agree with should concern everyone.

[SassyLady]

BTW

Local child diagnosed with mumps

But amazingly the child was in fact vaccinated.
the best version of "the facts" is that the mumps portion of the MMR vaccines are 88+percent effective. great!
(but even that's questionable)
If 10% of 10,000 vaccinated people get the mumps that's 1000 people.
If 1000 people in any city got the mumps , how many people would assume that ALL had been vaccinated?
How many would just Blame "antivaxxers" anyway? Without any evidence of that.
Next time we hear of an "outbreak", maybe the assumption should be that the vaccine haven't worked? Is that to crazy to imagine?
Instead of blaming antivaxxers? Since we're just guessing anyway.



In the link below we listen to a PRO-Vaccine Nurse go though all the steps she's "supposed to" when 1 of her 4 vaccinated children gets the mumps.
-Practicing Nurse surprised to find that her child got the mumps, Then had her family checked to see if they needed boosters for any of their vaccines. Everyone in house ends up with boosters . She then re-discovers various info such as the vaccines are only supoosed to be effective to various degrees 80-96% depending on the disease. But was shocked to find that everyone in her house got the mumps but 1. Even after proper isolation. Including her, even though she had tested as immune to mumps.
Her family somehow was only protected by lest than 25%, nearly whole family got mumps.
Was also shocked at how many assumed that she and her family had not been vaccinated and the negative wave sent their way.
And how many were blaming "anti-vaxxers" for the outbreak.
https://rumble.com/v4r0igq-practicin...mumps-and.html

But hey Maybe the fact that her whole family got the mumps isn't evidence of anything concerning the effectiveness of vaccines.
If the vaccine works on ONE person that's 100% evidence that they work. and no one should question them.
If they don't work for a few folks, well then that's NOT evidence of anything... evidence doesn't say anything now other than correlation and correlating to multiple possibilities.

I object to all the other crap they put into the vaccines that cause long term issues. So, even if they relieve some of the worst symptoms for the current virus is it worth jeopardizing your health in other areas?

[fj1200]

I didn't get that from reading the Declaration. It basically said lockdowns are harmful because it reduces herd immunity.

I believe that the vaccine has caused AIDS to escalate and more cytokine storm events which allows cancer to proliferate.

Healthy people dying suddenly is starting to be linked to the overactive immune system that the mRna shots are causing.

But you belive what you want.

The part related to this particular discussion is...

Coming from both the left and right, and around the world, we have devoted our careers to protecting people. Current lockdown policies are producing devastating effects on short and long-term public health. The results (to name a few) include lower childhood vaccination rates, worsening cardiovascular disease outcomes, fewer cancer screenings and deteriorating mental health – leading to greater excess mortality in years to come, with the working class and younger members of society carrying the heaviest burden. Keeping students out of school is a grave injustice.

I believe things that are shown. And no far in this thread it has not been shown in Japan.

They didn't?

No.

Depends on who decides what the facts are. Government deciding what is true and then censoring those who post facts they don't agree with should concern everyone.

Facts are facts. Government choosing their facts is no better than others choosing their facts.

[Kathianne]

The part related to this particular discussion is...



I believe things that are shown. And no far in this thread it has not been shown in Japan.



No.



Facts are facts. Government choosing their facts is no better than others choosing their facts.

Impossible convo you're attempting.

[SassyLady]

Impossible convo you're attempting.

I agree with you.

[revelarts]

...So when the next coming gain of function virus that the govt funds comes along do you think the gov't will point your kids & grand kids in the right direction to make the best decisions?
So no one should really talk about what happened this time?
Or that the vaccines they've taken "maybe" be problem down the road is not worth discussing?...

It's 2024, not 2020. Time to move on.

So your answer to the questions is, yes.
& Gunny you seem to have said that you've already decided to get the next vaccine the govt spits out and not worry about any consequences for yourself or anyone else.
ok, no worries, all the best to you. I hope that works out.

But, if you Kath & FJ don't mind i'll keep talking about it.
I'm not forcing anyone to read my post, much less respond. enjoy your medications.
move on.

Yep. Choices made. Regrets expressed where thought appropriate. I for one never hassled anyone to do as I thought. Period.

thing is Kath, it's not personal.
I only replied to your personal situation when you bring it up.
The study from the Japan doesn't address you or gunny's personal thoughts or actions. neither does the UK oncologist's.
They are pointing out facts for everyone today, based on actions taken BY THE GOVT & BIG PHARMA in 2019-2020... no matter what your personal POV was in 2020.
You did not censor or close schools or biz or fire people or coerce others to take experimental drugs.
But I do think it's wise to LEARN from the govts pass mistakes. rather than giving them a pass. Personal correction and insight is great but letting the govt know that this kind of action will not be toltarated in the future for you kids and grandkids might be something others want to point out from time to time.

Rather than just walking away from the biggest govt & medical disruption of American life in the past 100 years as if it was a little hickup.
that doesn't even really need an official post mortem, beyond a few whispered apologies and "oops" from a handful of public figures.

Impossible convo you're attempting.

Takes 2 Kath.
I know some folks who cannot bring themselves to even consider seriously the idea that vaccines might not be as safe & effective as advertised. that they all are generally VITAL and good.
It's beyond proof in their minds. It's a fact like the sun rising.
But still, FJ already said that the Japanese study says "maybe" there's a problem, however seems clear he's not really taking the evidence at this point seriously in that he tried to find ever viable reason why the study may be flawed. He suggested covid itself as the cause & lack of cancer care as the cause. Then after exhausting those he grabbed on to "maybe" and is content to live in the possibility that something else IS the cause... anything but the vaccine?
And asserts I and oncologist are somehow recklessly jumping the gun.
But the question that started this line of conversation was,
"WITH THE EVIDENCE ON HAND TODAY", what does he think is the cause?
1st He basically denied there's ANY evidence, "just" some "correlation", then he fell back to "maybe" in the study but still holds to ignorance and won't point to any possible or likely cause..
Seems there's might be some bias there Kath. Am I way out in left field here?
No one says that more study shouldn't be done. I think FAR more needs to be done. I suspect many people don't want to "waste the time" because they already know that the vaccines are good and "anti-vaxxers!" might get traction. Plus no one they know had a problem.
Rather than being more concerned about people getting cancer.

Look, There's no doubt I have bias, many. I'm well aware of it. And I literally have to check myself.
Some of us can admit our own. And frankly I appreciate HONEST, factual push back, since I don't like being wrong.
But sometimes it seems others act as if they have no biases. I'm not sure if they are trying to gaslight others or themselves.

I make a note to you today, that if I see evidence that there SOMETHING ELSE that's the MORE likely the cause of the known uptick in cancers in Japan & elsewhere I'll post it here.
In fact here's a straw for FJ to grasps.
it's now known that LACK of sunlight allows more disease of all kinds diseases, including cancers, to proliferate. the lockdown forced people in inside world wide.
So "MAYBE" that's a factor. It should be studied. But right now there's NO evidence of ANYTHING, since correlation is not causation

[Kathianne]

So your answer to the questions is, yes.
& Gunny you seem to have said that you've already decided to get the next vaccine the govt spits out and not worry about any consequences for yourself or anyone else.
ok, no worries, all the best to you. I hope that works out.

But, if you Kath & FJ don't mind i'll keep talking about it.
I'm not forcing anyone to read my post, much less respond. enjoy your medications.
move on.


thing is Kath, it's not personal.
I only replied to your personal situation when you bring it up.
The study from the Japan doesn't address you or gunny's personal thoughts or actions. neither does the UK oncologist's.
They are pointing out facts for everyone today, based on actions taken BY THE GOVT & BIG PHARMA in 2019-2020... no matter what your personal POV was in 2020.
You did not censor or close schools or biz or fire people or coerce others to take experimental drugs.
But I do think it's wise to LEARN from the govts pass mistakes. rather than giving them a pass. Personal correction and insight is great but letting the govt know that this kind of action will not be toltarated in the future for you kids and grandkids might be something others want to point out from time to time.

Rather than just walking away from the biggest govt & medical disruption of American life in the past 100 years as if it was a little hickup.
that doesn't even really need an official post mortem, beyond a few whispered apologies and "oops" from a handful of public figures.



Takes 2 Kath.
I know some folks who cannot bring themselves to even consider seriously the idea that vaccines might not be as safe & effective as advertised. that they all are generally VITAL and good.
It's beyond proof in their minds. It's a fact like the sun rising.
But still, FJ already said that the Japanese study says "maybe" there's a problem, however seems clear he's not really taking the evidence at this point seriously in that he tried to find ever viable reason why the study may be flawed. He suggested covid itself as the cause & lack of cancer care as the cause. Then after exhausting those he grabbed on to "maybe" and is content to live in the possibility that something else IS the cause... anything but the vaccine?
And asserts I and oncologist are somehow recklessly jumping the gun.
But the question that started this line of conversation was,
"WITH THE EVIDENCE ON HAND TODAY", what does he think is the cause?
1st He basically denied there's ANY evidence, "just" some "correlation", then he fell back to "maybe" in the study but still holds to ignorance and won't point to any possible or likely cause..
Seems there's might be some bias there Kath. Am I way out in left field here?
No one says that more study shouldn't be done. I think FAR more needs to be done. I suspect many people don't want to "waste the time" because they already know that the vaccines are good and "anti-vaxxers!" might get traction. Plus no one they know had a problem.
Rather than being more concerned about people getting cancer.

Look, There's no doubt I have bias, many. I'm well aware of it. And I literally have to check myself.
Some of us can admit our own. And frankly I appreciate HONEST, factual push back, since I don't like being wrong.
But sometimes it seems others act as if they have no biases. I'm not sure if they are trying to gaslight others or themselves.

I make a note to you today, that if I see evidence that there SOMETHING ELSE that's the MORE likely the cause of the known uptick in cancers in Japan & elsewhere I'll post it here.
In fact here's a straw for FJ to grasps.
it's now known that LACK of sunlight allows more disease of all kinds diseases, including cancers, to proliferate. the lockdown forced people in inside world wide.
So "MAYBE" that's a factor. It should be studied. But right now there's NO evidence of ANYTHING, since correlation is not causation

I am not of the mindset that every vax is something that everyone should get and even with Covid, I waited some time before getting; long enough that I didn't think my grandchildren or even children should get it, as they are all healthy and under 45. I chose for myself, with the limited info available, BECAUSE I had more than a few of the high risk factors. Not everyone who isn't anti-vax is an idiot.

I do think the freaking government and Pharmas have screwed things up for a long, long time. Feel free to keep making noise to have folks not vaccinate their kids from highly contagious and high risk childhood illnesses, might actually work out in a Darwinian way.

[revelarts]

I am not of the mindset that every vax is something that everyone should get and even with Covid, I waited some time before getting; long enough that I didn't think my grandchildren or even children should get it, as they are all healthy and under 45. I chose for myself, with the limited info available, BECAUSE I had more than a few of the high risk factors.

Not everyone who isn't anti-vax is an idiot.

Never said they were.

I do think the freaking government and Pharmas have screwed things up for a long, long time.


Feel free to keep making noise to have folks not vaccinate their kids from highly contagious and high risk childhood illnesses, might actually work out in a Darwinian way.

Yes, it might.

[fj1200]

But still, FJ already said that the Japanese study says "maybe" there's a problem, however seems clear he's not really taking the evidence at this point seriously in that he tried to find ever viable reason why the study may be flawed. He suggested covid itself as the cause & lack of cancer care as the cause. Then after exhausting those he grabbed on to "maybe" and is content to live in the possibility that something else IS the cause... anything but the vaccine?
And asserts I and oncologist are somehow recklessly jumping the gun.
But the question that started this line of conversation was,
"WITH THE EVIDENCE ON HAND TODAY", what does he think is the cause?
1st He basically denied there's ANY evidence, "just" some "correlation", then he fell back to "maybe" in the study but still holds to ignorance and won't point to any possible or likely cause..

For F*s sake. If you can't comprehend what I'm saying then don't try to sum up my words to someone else. I have merely quoted the exact words that they used indicating that they do not know the cause but will be investigated further. Reread that last sentence over and over until it clicks in your head.

[fj1200]

Impossible convo you're attempting.

I thought I was using basic words understandable to grown adults. Maybe I need to wrap it up in a reactionary youtube video.

[revelarts]

Revelarts: "He suggested covid itself as the cause & lack of cancer care as the cause."

...Ask yourself the likelihood of the results after 2 years of reduced care due to lockdowns or due to the vaccine with less time to act? And if the vaccination rate didn't exceed 80% of the Japanese population then I'd say you have a built in control group. Nevertheless will you update the results if it becomes likely the former or only if it becomes likely the latter?

...The link you posted essentially said nothing so therefore nothing can be derived from it. ....

Revelarts: "Then after exhausting those he grabbed on to "maybe" and is content to live in the possibility that something else IS the cause... anything but the vaccine?..."

...and I also don't over interpret studies or hang my hat on "... may be..."

The evidence doesn't say anything now other than correlation and correlating to multiple possibilities, some stated and some not....

"... cancers may be attributable ...

... It might be attributable to that and it also might not be. Nothing I said was incorrect no matter how much you misread it and misinterpret it. It's not worth going more into depth because it would just be what-ifs and you are looking for one thing to the exclusion of anything else.

Revelarts: "...but still holds to ignorance and won't point to any possible or likely cause.."
"...anything but the vaccine?" (please note the question mark)

So I guess for clarity I should add
Fj says he's not prepared to go into "what ifs" because of what I'M LOOKING FOR... supposedly "to the exclusion of anything else".

I'm looking for valid answers to why the uptick in cancers, heart problems, autoimmune problems, etc. & it appears to me AT THIS POINT that the vaccines are the most likely cause.
I think, at this point, that the govts & big pharma Pissed Poison on all of us and want us all to call it Rain. Helpful Harmless Rain.
The numbers from various studies and the experience of oncologist, doctors, nurses, researchers, insurance actuarial tables, and coroners point to poison piss vaxs as the most likely cause.

Others may feel the need to wait until MORE studies are done.
Fine, Let's all call for more studies.
Also maybe we can all honestly review the info that's already on the table too.
And not pretend that they say "NOTHING".
(which is my main beef with your replies and why i've wanted to let this go but have not.)
unless I've miss understood the meaning of the word "nothing".