Seems Zionist and Hamas choose violence.Originally Posted by Kathianne
No hate from me for anyone. My problem is pretending either side are "good guys".
Or supporting either one when all their hands are covered with innocents blood at this point.
Senior Member
Seems Zionist and Hamas choose violence.
No hate from me for anyone. My problem is pretending either side are "good guys".
Or supporting either one when all their hands are covered with innocents blood at this point.
Last edited by revelarts; Yesterday at 03:33 PM.
It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God. 1 Peter 2:16
Super Minion
I would not expect you to be all dovey peace if someone broke into your home and killed your family, leaving you gravely wounded. Whatever your response on those that carried out that violence, would be deserved-especially after all your attempts at bringing them to 'justice' were not only ignored, but laughed at. You 'deserved' it. Sorry, but neither Israel or yourself would deserve anything of the sort.
"The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill
Senior Member
I wouldn't expect you to hunt down the murderers and then blow up their home, their kids & grandma & whole neighborhood leaving them all homeless or dead. Then and look for distance relatives in other states like the HatFields & McCoys and do the same to them until you felt "safe".
Then Claim it's all justified... because you're fueled by righteous emotions from your own loss.
(especially when you own family fed & set-up the murderers who came to your home in the 1st place
Hamas was created by Israel Kath. the world didn't start on 10-7)
Last edited by revelarts; Yesterday at 04:34 PM.
It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God. 1 Peter 2:16
Just Me
The target is not the homes nor families. You're being dishonest. The target is the terrorists. The terrorists choose to hide behind skirts and Playskool.
IF Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran would just stop their shit and go hoe, and Putin the same, there wouldn't be any damned wars. There's nothing hard about that simple equation. Until you start making excuses for those causing the wars.
And no, it's not okay to just sit on your ass and wait for the next time they get the urge to strike. THAT is stupid.
“When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke
Super Minion
Israel did NOT create Hamas, if such a thing actually took place blame the UN.
Israel is NOT hunting down any persons other than leadership, which hide in urban areas, using the population as protection. That Israel is trying to minimize casualties is lost or rather turned into 'hunting down,' on such as yourself.
While we do agree on many issues or even parts of some, this is not one of those.
"The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill
Super Minion
Yep, it's time for the actual victims of violence, whether the Israelis or Ukrainians to stop being blamed for the violence perpetrated upon them.
"The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill
Super Minion
This may be success?
https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2024...allah-n3795096
Did Israel Get Nasrallah? UPDATE: 'Communication Lost' Says Reuters Source
Ed Morrissey 4:40 PM | September 27, 2024
AP Photo/Pamela Smith
Let's put it this way: no one's heard from the head of Hezbollah since the IDF struck its headquarters in Beirut a few hours ago. When the air strike took place, Israel took care to note that they had no confirmation that Hassan Nasrallah got killed in the attack.
Since then, though, silence has spoken volumes. If Nasrallah had survived, and especially if he hadn't been at their Dahiyeh underground complex, he surely would have gotten word out shortly after the attack.
Lebanese media started off reporting that Nasrallah survived and that a statement would get issued shortly. That has changed, however:
Translation: No one can find Nasrallah. In fact, if Trent Telenko's analysis is accurate, Lebanese media may have trouble finding anyone to speak on behalf of Hezbollah in Beirut for a while:
If Nasrallah was in that underground warren, he's almost certainly dead. Earlier, I had expressed some skepticism that Nasrallah would trust Hezbollah facilities after the earlier strikes in Dahiyeh killed several other high-ranking commanders. Israel clearly had precise and actionable intel, and that should have prompted Nasrallah to remove himself to a secure location, preferably a diplomatic mission like an embassy that Israel wouldn't attack.
Of course, this is the same genius who got deked in Operation Grim Beeper, so ...
This development indicates that something significant has changed, though:
Yashar Ali points out that it's 11 pm in Tehran and Khamenei is 85 years old. That kind of meeting doesn't get called unless there's a real emergency and only the Supreme Leader can address it. If Nasrallah was still alive, the IRGC would just coordinate with him at whatever location he chose.
Israeli media report a cautious optimism that they got Nasrallah, along with whatever remained of Hezbollah's top command. Reuters reports that Hezbollah's media office issued an ambiguous denial of "any statement" about the Israeli strikes, but Israel hasn't made a statement yet. And a former IDF intel chief told Israel's Channel 12 that they wouldn't have ordered that kind of strike without "absolute certainty" of Nasrallah's location.
Perhaps, but a handful of 'dead' commanders have come back to life over the last 20-plus years in the war on terror, some more than once. Intel can look solid until action is ordered on its basis, only to turn out incorrect. At some point, either Nasrallah will turn up, or he'll turn up dead, but either way their organization has been gutted in less than two weeks after 40 years of digging in. That's the key.
Israel is still shaping the sub-Litani for a ground operation, perhaps hoping that the collapse of leadership will prevent any coherent resistance:
Fighter jets from the Israel Air Force, under the direction of the Northern Command, struck Hezbollah targets in southern Lebanon and deeper in the country, the military said on Friday.One has to wonder whether the Lebanese Armed Forces might take this opportunity to wrest control of their country back from Hezbollah. That was inconceivable a fortnight ago, but there's at least a clear opportunity to go after their network while leadership is out of touch and apparently incapacitated. The Israelis would be delighted to assist in that effort.
Meanwhile, the Iranians are furious, blaming the US, but also not exactly threatening retribution:
Statement from the Foreign Ministry of the Islamic Republic of Iran:The omission of a threat seems notable. And Yashar Ali scoffs at the sovereignty argument:
"This brutal attack, carried out with bombs gifted by the U.S. regime to the rogue and rebellious Zionist regime, in addition to being a blatant violation of international laws and regulations, as well as Lebanon's sovereignty, territorial integrity, and national security, constitutes an undeniable war crime.
Therefore, without a doubt, the U.S. regime is an accomplice to the Zionist regime and must be held accountable.
The continuation of the Zionist regime's crimes against the people of Palestine and Lebanon clearly shows that the call for a ceasefire by the U.S. and some Western countries is a blatant deception aimed at buying time to allow the Zionist regime to continue its crimes against the people of Palestine and Lebanon."
That's also rather rich from the terror network that has lobbed missiles at Israel for the last 11 months. We'll update as developments warrant.
Update: Either the Israelis just got updated intel, or they are just determined to destroy any remaining Hezbollah command infrastructure:
The IDF is calling on Lebanese civilians near several buildings in the Dahiyeh suburb of Beirut, a known Hezbollah stronghold, to evacuate immediately.The first round of strikes came with no warning, so this warning isn't likely about personnel. It's an attempt to degrade any more remaining Hezbollah infrastructure in Dahiyeh, perhaps to get the Lebanese government to seize the initiative and push what's left of Hezbollah out of the way.
Col. Avichay Adraee, the IDF’s Arabic-language spokesman, publishes maps alongside the announcement, which call on civilians to distance themselves at least 500 meters from three sites in Dahiyeh.
Update: Strike up 'The Sounds of Silence' as its own message, according to Reuters:
Hezbollah's senior leadership was unreachable following Israel's strikes on Beirut's southern suburbs on Friday evening, a source close to the Lebanese armed group told Reuters.At a certain point, the silence speaks for itself. And we are rapidly reaching that point. It looks like the entire leadership structure may have been destroyed.
Hours after the strikes, Hezbollah had not made a statement on the fate of its head, Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah.
"The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill
Super Minion
and it is. He's history.
https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2024...rikes-n3795117
It's Official: Nasrallah, Top Hezbollah Commanders Killed in Israeli Strikes
Ed Morrissey 9:00 AM | September 28, 2024
AP Photo/Richard Drew
Fool around, find out. After decades of terrorist attacks and eleven months of indiscriminate civilian bombardment, Hezbollah leadership belatedly discovered that it had touched off a real war with Israel. And then Hezbollah promptly lost its entire top leadership structure in less than two weeks:
Long-time Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah and other top commanders of the terror group were killed in a massive Israeli airstrike on their underground headquarters in the Lebanese capital of Beirut, the Israel Defense Forces announced Saturday morning as Israel sought to dramatically upend the year-long conflict.In the wake of the announcement, Iran's Ali Khamenei called for Muslims to unite against Israel. But it's where the 'Supreme Leader' made that call that is most notable:
Hezbollah confirmed his death several hours later.
The announcement came as the Israeli military ramped up its airstrikes against Hezbollah assets in Beirut and other areas in Lebanon, hours after Nasrallah was struck at the terror group’s main headquarters, leaving parts of the Lebanese capital shrouded in smoke and dust.
Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei called on Muslims on Saturday "to stand by the people of Lebanon and the proud Hezbollah with whatever means they have and assist them in confronting the ... wicked regime (of Israel)."Looks like Iran has belatedly learned a lesson about Israeli capabilities, and their own relatively lack of the same. Despite decades of planning and resources, the Israelis easily penetrated Hezbollah communications and subterfuge, and not just in Operation Grim Beeper. They knew precisely where to find Nasrallah, and had no compunction at all in destroying Hezbollah's command center, even in a residential center of suburban Beirut. If the assassination of Ismail Haniyeh at an IRGC safe house in Tehran hadn't taught the Iranians a lesson about Israeli determination and will, yesterday's decapitation strike in Beirut certainly did.
In a statement after the Israeli army said it had killed Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah, Khamenei said: "The fate of this region will be determined by the forces of resistance, with Hezbollah at the forefront," state media reported.
He has been transferred to a secure location inside the country with heightened security measures in place, two regional officials briefed by Tehran told Reuters.
Does Israel have that same capacity in Iran? Does Khamenei really want to find out?
The comment about Hezbollah being "at the forefront" of the "forces of resistance" might be a clue. Why not Iran itself? Israel has all but destroyed Hamas as a proxy army, although they still remain a potent terror group with their top leader still presumably alive. Hezbollah's entire upper echelons, not to mention its reputation, just got annihilated. Iran is the only effective force in the field now against Israel, but at least thus far, it doesn't appear that Khamenei is too anxious to take the field.
That calculation comes in to better focus when one understands what the loss of Nasrallah means to Iran's mullahcracy. Nasrallah didn't just serve as the leader of Hezbollah; he was the capo di tutti capi of all Iran's proxies arrayed against Israel:
Nasrallah had grown to become the senior leader of Iran’s numerous proxies. He would often host Iranian officials, and he would also invite representatives from Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad to Lebanon to coordinate their attacks against the Jewish state. He also sought to muster the Houthis in Yemen to threaten Israel, and he coordinated with Iraqi militias.Fool around, find out? Perhaps. If Khamenei expects to reconstitute Hezbollah as the forward force against Israel, consider the difficulty he faces in achieving that goal now. Israel didn't just pick off Nasrallah as they did with Haniyeh. The IDF destroyed their entire top command, disabled thousands of their lower-level commanders in Operation Grim Beeper, and have completely destroyed their organizational infrastructure in Beirut. They'll be hard pressed to stop the Lebanese Armed Forces from pushing them out of the country altogether at this point, thanks to a total disintegration of command-control capabilities.
The Hezbollah leader had worked with other key Iranian-backed leaders in the region; in recent years, Iran has seen many of them killed. This includes Qasem Soleimani of the IRGC and Iraqi militia leader Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis. With those critical leaders off the table, Nasrallah was increasingly filling many shoes. Now those shoes are empty again.
But even if they stick around, who can lead them? Israel has wiped out all of Hezbollah's candidates for succession. Units are still conducting missile attacks essentially alone and without any coordination, making those left with initiatives into easy targets for the IDF. There's a very real risk now of a ground invasion that will scour the sub-Litani of Hezbollah's remaining assets, which means that even if Khamenei appoints a successor, there may not be much left to lead -- and not much credibility left to even try:
“Israel has declared war. It is a full-scale war, and Israel is using this opportunity to eliminate the leadership structure and destroy Hezbollah’s infrastructure,” said Fawaz Gerges, professor of international relations at the London School of Economics.That is the key. Nasrallah didn't just get defeated -- he got humiliated. It took Israel less than two weeks to utterly vanquish Nasrallah once the Israelis treated this like a real war. They humiliated the mullahs of Tehran too, taking less than two weeks to completely destroy the upper levels of the organization that Iran built with so much money and resources over the last 45 years. Israel made them all look ridiculous in a region where tyrants cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous.
“They are breaking Hezbollah’s power. There’s no need to kill every member of Hezbollah, but if you destroy its combat structure and force them to surrender. It loses credibility,” Gerges said.
Fool around, find out.
"The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill
Super Minion
and perhaps even more of a silver lining down the road:
https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2024...ollah-n3795118
How Long Can This Puppet Last Without Hezbollah?
Ed Morrissey 12:00 PM | September 28, 2024
AP Photo/Hassan Ammar
Could the collapse of Hezbollah touch off a domino effect in the Middle East? Iran's primary proxy and the world's most powerful non-state organization didn't just keep Lebanon under Tehran's thumb, after all. Hassan Nasrallah played a key role in propping up Iranian puppet Bashar al-Assad in Syria.
And now Syrians are beginning to cheer their "disarray," as the New York Times puts it:
Even as most of the Middle East is overtaken by outrage at weeks of destructive Israeli strikes against Hezbollah and its leaders, some communities are celebrating the disarray of the powerful militia that persecuted them.Assad only barely managed to prevail in the long and bloody Syrian civil war, even with help from Hezbollah, Iran, and Russia. Russia now has another bloody war and quagmire in Ukraine, and probably can't help out if a Hezbollah collapse triggers another popular uprising. Iran might have to take the field directly, but that would risk triggering a direct conflict with Israel, as they would first need to secure their position in Lebanon by reconstituting Hezbollah as their proxy.
Nowhere is that sentiment as strong as in parts of Syria, where Hezbollah has played a key role in helping President Bashar al-Assad wage a brutal crackdown on opponents of his family’s decades-long rule, and where news of Israeli strikes on Hezbollah neighborhoods prompted singing in the streets of rebel strongholds.
Hezbollah’s origin story is in fighting Israel’s occupation of southern Lebanon, which ended in 2000, and fighting Israel is the mission central to its followers’ identity. But one of its biggest military roles over the past decade had actually been in Syria, helping its patron, Iran, keep Mr. Assad in power.
Hezbollah forces played a part in some of the most brutal chapters of the Syrian civil war, including sieges that starved encircled communities for months, as well as operations that expelled many Sunni Muslims, who were the backbone of the anti-Assad revolt, from neighborhoods and towns.
For Syria, though, Iran can re-engage more directly with its Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC). That too could prompt clashes with Israel, but Syria is going to be a secondary consideration for Benjamin Netanyahu while Israel deals with the remaining threats from Lebanon. If Assad starts looking wobbly, Ali Khamenei can't afford to ignore that threat. If Syria slips away from Iran's orbit, they will have almost no way to project power in the region.
Of course, Assad has had some considerable time to rebuild his position, too, so this eruption of joy could be premature. Especially over the last year, Assad has assisted Hezbollah at least to a similar extent that Hezbollah assisted Assad. And even if Aassad begins to falter and a popular uprising can oust him, the West might not want to start singing hosannas either. The short-term result of a collapse would likely boost the still-extant ISIS threats in Syria, and could result in an even worse tyrant taking power with the help of Iran's mullahs. There may not be too many worse options than Assad, but that number isn't zero either.
The real opportunity is next door. Lebanon has a functioning government with its own armed forces, which until now have been vastly outgunned by Hezbollah. Israel tried allying with them in the early 1980s in order to get a Druze-centered friendly government in Beirut while fighting against the PLO, which had touched off a civil war there after getting kicked out of Syria. That war and occupation ended up boosting the fortunes of Hezbollah as Iran muscled into the fight. Israel has another opportunity to help liberate Lebanon, but the Lebanese will have to fight for their freedom to win it.
Let's hope that's the case. Once Lebanon frees itself from the tentacles of the Iranians, then perhaps Syria can follow in a more orderly fashion.
"The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill
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