Does the human soul have a gender?

[Hagbard Celine]

What is your opinion? Would there be a need for gender in heaven (or hell)? Think about it. Why would God need sexual parts? Why would our souls need them? Wouldn't it stand to reason that gender is something that is only needed in the corporeal world we live in to sustain biological processes? And if you knew the answer to the question "does the human soul have a gender," and the answer was no, would it change how you view gay marriage? If the human soul had no gender but was instead only comprised of our intellects and personalities, wouldn't it make the importance we place on the nomenclatures of hetero/homo relationships kind of pointless? And wouldn't it raise questions about the passages in the Bible that are against homosexuality?

[darin]

The bible is clear: when we're with God in heaven we'll not be given unto marriage. Implies we'll be gender-neutral and junk. Although most Angels have masculine names; We won't need reproductive parts.

[Hagbard Celine]

The bible is clear: when we're with God in heaven we'll not be given unto marriage. Implies we'll be gender-neutral and junk. Although most Angels have masculine names; We won't need reproductive parts.

So why do our gender specific sexual choices here on Earth affect our afterlife if they will have no physical effect on us when we are there? In other words, why does it matter who we have sex with here on Earth? Doesn't it seem pointless to fight over sexual orientation here on Earth? Why are homos considered sinners?

[darin]

So why do our gender specific sexual choices here on Earth affect our afterlife if they will have no physical effect on us when we are there? In other words, why does it matter who we have sex with here on Earth? Doesn't it seem pointless to fight over sexual orientation here on Earth? Why are homos considered sinners?



Our choices on earth affect our afterlife because of Sin. When we choose to not accept Christ's substitutional atonement for OUR transgressions, we choose to remain in our sinful condition. Homosexuals are sinners because they continue to 'do' and 'feel' and 'desire' a behaviour God has told us to avoid.

Here's a side note: MOST of what God calls 'sinful behaviour' is PROBABLY called 'sin' to keep us from harming ourselves. God doesn't tell people to avoid certain thoughts/behaviours out of spite - he does so because HE KNOWS BETTER, and knows what is BEST for us.

[jillian]

Our choices on earth affect our afterlife because of Sin. When we choose to not accept Christ's substitutional atonement for OUR transgressions, we choose to remain in our sinful condition. Homosexuals are sinners because they continue to 'do' and 'feel' and 'desire' a behaviour God has told us to avoid.

Here's a side note: MOST of what God calls 'sinful behaviour' is PROBABLY called 'sin' to keep us from harming ourselves. God doesn't tell people to avoid certain thoughts/behaviours out of spite - he does so because HE KNOWS BETTER, and knows what is BEST for us.

The above is true ONLY if you are Christian and a Christian of a certain stripe, at that. For the rest of us, it's not applicable.

[Hagbard Celine]

Our choices on earth affect our afterlife because of Sin. When we choose to not accept Christ's substitutional atonement for OUR transgressions, we choose to remain in our sinful condition. Homosexuals are sinners because they continue to 'do' and 'feel' and 'desire' a behaviour God has told us to avoid.

Here's a side note: MOST of what God calls 'sinful behaviour' is PROBABLY called 'sin' to keep us from harming ourselves. God doesn't tell people to avoid certain thoughts/behaviours out of spite - he does so because HE KNOWS BETTER, and knows what is BEST for us.

So basically this life is a test. If we make a high enough score our consciousness will live forever with God in heaven. Doesn't that make life seem a little pointless?

[darin]

The above is true ONLY if you are Christian and a Christian of a certain stripe, at that. For the rest of us, it's not applicable.

Then why the hell are you replying? lol :)

[jillian]

Then why the hell are you replying? lol :)

Cause I have a different idea about what heaven is and what the soul is. And certainly have different concepts as to sin.

That ok with you? :poke: :cheers2:

[Mr. P]

Does the human soul have a gender?

This is a flawed question as no one knows 'if' we have a soul to start with.

[Hagbard Celine]

So basically this life is a test. If we make a high enough score our consciousness will live forever with God in heaven. Doesn't that make life seem a little pointless?

Or at the very least patronizing?

[Nienna]

So basically this life is a test. If we make a high enough score our consciousness will live forever with God in heaven. Doesn't that make life seem a little pointless?

Basically, yes life is a test, and we get new bodies, according to Christian beliefs. It isn't a matter of "score," but rather whether we do or do not obey God.

[Grumplestillskin]

he does so because HE KNOWS BETTER, and knows what is BEST for us.


You mean you don't know what is right and wrong? I don't need a god to tell me what is right and wrong.

As to the original question - yet another logical reason not to believe. What do you do in heaven all day - play cribbage?

[Nienna]

Or at the very least patronizing?

Depends on whether one sees the point of life as fulfilling one's self or fulfilling his Creator's purpose for him.

[darin]

So basically this life is a test. If we make a high enough score our consciousness will live forever with God in heaven. Doesn't that make life seem a little pointless?

No - not even. Not even CLOSE.

Life isn't a Test. It's an opportunity. It's a chance to enjoy God's creation, AS one of his created, WHILE maintaining a relationship with Him. :D It's EASY, really, it boils down to this:

"God...I know I'm trying to do my own thing here. I realize MY way will bring death and sorrow. Forgive my sins against you; Help me turn from the areas in my life over to you; willfully submitting to your leadership and care. Jesus, I acknowledge the price you paid, in MY stead, on the Cross. I thank you for your Love for me and ask your spirit into my heart. Teach me to find you, through your word. Amen"

Then - from there...GET PLUGGED IN to a GOOD protestant (my preference) church who preaches the no-compromise word of God. If you dont mingle with like-minded, you may find yourself feeling alone.

If you have iTunes you can download my pastor's messages via PodCasting. I think they're under Lighthouse Christian Center. Here's what my church (and I) believe:

http://www.lighthouse-cc.org/home/--what-does-lighthouse-believe

[darin]

You mean you don't know what is right and wrong? I don't need a god to tell me what is right and wrong.

You have 'basic' knowledge of right and wrong as passed down to you. However, you will never make the RIGHT choices in life apart from God. You may THINK you're doing the right thing, but it' could be harmful in the end. God is OLDER than you, brother...he knows better

[darin]

Cause I have a different idea about what heaven is and what the soul is. And certainly have different concepts as to sin.

That ok with you? :poke: :cheers2:

Then don't reply simply to BERATE Me - reply about what YOU believe. Your little "Darin is wrong" reply doesn't help the conversation...go'on now...You can do it...what're Jillian's thoughts on the 'subject'? :)

[jillian]

Then don't reply simply to BERATE Me - reply about what YOU believe. Your little "Darin is wrong" reply doesn't help the conversation...go'on now...You can do it...what're Jillian's thoughts on the 'subject'? :)

How is pointing out that your beliefs are limited to a particular group of people "berating" you?

I have no problem respecting your beliefs. It's the insistence that they're the ONLY beliefs of worth that exist that strikes me as odd. I think we each believe what we believe.

You can understand that, Darin, no?

Oh... and I don't think it's possible to accept that the Bible is to be literally accepted when it's not even 100% properly translated.

[Hagbard Celine]

No - not even. Not even CLOSE.

Life isn't a Test. It's an opportunity. It's a chance to enjoy God's creation, AS one of his created, WHILE maintaining a relationship with Him. :D It's EASY, really, it boils down to this:

"God...I know I'm trying to do my own thing here. I realize MY way will bring death and sorrow. Forgive my sins against you; Help me turn from the areas in my life over to you; willfully submitting to your leadership and care. Jesus, I acknowledge the price you paid, in MY stead, on the Cross. I thank you for your Love for me and ask your spirit into my heart. Teach me to find you, through your word. Amen"

I understand your point, but how do I know if I'm "maintaining a relationship with Him?" And you say life isn't a test, but it seems that none of the choices I make here will have any bearing on my afterlife except for the choice to jump through the hoops I need to in order to make it to heaven.

And as for Jesus' sacrifice, doesn't it stand to reason that the whole heaven/hell thing could be cleared up if God would just smite Satan off the map? I mean God did create Satan so why would he have to sacrifice his son in order to beat him rather than just doing away with him altogether? Wouldn't that solve the problem? The whole "life of sin" thing seems to be quite arbitrary when you think about it. Especially when it comes to sins of the flesh since we won't even have sex organs in heaven!

[jillian]

I understand your point, but how do I know if I'm "maintaining a relationship with Him?" And you say life isn't a test, but it seems that none of the choices I make here will have any bearing on my afterlife except for the choice to jump through the hoops I need to in order to make it to heaven.

And as for Jesus' sacrifice, doesn't it stand to reason that the whole heaven/hell thing could be cleared up if God would just smite Satan off the map? I mean God did create Satan so why would he have to sacrifice his son in order to beat him rather than just doing away with him altogether? Wouldn't that solve the problem? The whole "life of sin" thing seems to be quite arbitrary when you think about it. Especially when it comes to sins of the flesh since we won't even have sex organs in heaven!

Well... I can't answer that from a Christian perspective, but I can answer if from mine. Kabbalah says that each of the attributes of G-d (sephirot) have to be in balance, kind of like yin and yang. In order for good to exist as good, there has to be evil to contrast it. We are given free will about the path we choose. Also, in Judaism, there is no hell. Satan is simply the most beautiful of angels who was cast out for his arrogance in thinking he was G-d's equal.

[darin]

How is pointing out that your beliefs are limited to a particular group of people "berating" you?


It's not really berating I suppose - but it's obviously a waste of time. My opinion is OF COURSE my opinion. It'd be stupid for me to qualify my opinion; it'd be redundant. The question was "In your opinion" - thus my reply was OBVIOUSLY my opinion. It just so happens my Opinions are based upon the Bible, which is entirely fundamentally True and infallible. Thus, my opinion is that of ANY and EVERY Christian. Now, there are perhaps some who claim christ, yet do not believe what is written, contextually, in the Bible. Sure...their views might differ - but they are nevertheless wrong.



I have no problem respecting your beliefs. It's the insistence that they're the ONLY beliefs of worth that exist that strikes me as odd. I think we each believe what we believe.

Frankly, I believe what I believe is Absolutely true, and those who don't believe as I do concerning the afterlife, God, and Christ are absolutely wrong and their beliefs are as useless as tits on a bull - when it comes to Finding God.

I would expect ANYONE who doesn't believe as I do, to feel the same about MY beliefs. ANY belief allowing it may not be the 'only way' is worthless as "France."



Oh... and I don't think it's possible to accept that the Bible is to be literally accepted when it's not even 100% properly translated.

It's MORE possible to accept the bible has been 100% properly translated than it is your accusation is worth anything. I don't give two rats asses if the bible is 100% accurately translated - it's IRRELEVANT, really. If the bible HAS Inaccuracies, those inaccuracies are in parts that don't matter...like "His name was "Jon" - when the ACCURATE translation may be "He was called Jon".

KnowwhatImean?

Are you going to reply to the OP with YOUR thoughts, or continue to criticize MY replies?

[darin]

I understand your point, but how do I know if I'm "maintaining a relationship with Him?" And you say life isn't a test, but it seems that none of the choices I make here will have any bearing on my afterlife except for the choice to jump through the hoops I need to in order to make it to heaven.

Because when you Know God...you know His Voice. You can 'feel' Him with you and guiding you. He speaks to you through the Bible AND through your mind and thoughts and feelings.

You're still looking at this from the wrong perspective. Heaven requires no 'hoops'. Heaven only requires 'faith'. Frankly, I'd follow Christ even if Heaven weren't in the equation. Living a life in-tune with one's Creator > All else.


And as for Jesus' sacrifice, doesn't it stand to reason that the whole heaven/hell thing could be cleared up if God would just smite Satan off the map? I mean God did create Satan so why would he have to sacrifice his son in order to beat him rather than just doing away with him altogether? Wouldn't that solve the problem? The whole "life of sin" thing seems to be quite arbitrary when you think about it. Especially when it comes to sins of the flesh since we won't even have sex organs in heaven!

It boils down to "love." I contend, in order for somebody to REALLY love me, they must have the option to "not love me". God created Lucifer - Lucifer rebelled and became what we commonly call Satan. Now, God allows Satan to exist because of the very line above: In order to CHOOSE GOD of our own willingness, there MUST be an option to 'not-choose God'. Satan is that option. That doesn't mean one becomes a satan-worshiper necessarily - it just means they reject God and remain in their satan-inspired? (cant think of a better word) (through the original sin, our sinful nature) lives.

Keep in mind, It's not so much that homosexuality is a sin of the flesh - it also destroys one's character...it messes with one's mind - one's heart.

[Hagbard Celine]

Well... I can't answer that from a Christian perspective, but I can answer if from mine. Kabbalah says that each of the attributes of G-d (sephirot) have to be in balance, kind of like yin and yang. In order for good to exist as good, there has to be evil to contrast it. We are given free will about the path we choose. Also, in Judaism, there is no hell. Satan is simply the most beautiful of angels who was cast out for his arrogance in thinking he was G-d's equal.

So God allows Satan to exist so that there will be a contrast in existence between God's will and "not" God's will--God's will being what will lead us to heaven and the antithesis being what will lead us to hell.

If I understand correctly, God has us jump through the hoops here on Earth so that we will earn the right or choose to be with him in the afterlife. So by allowing Satan to exist, he gives us the choice of choosing the path to salvation or choosing the path to destruction.

[Hagbard Celine]

So God allows Satan to exist so that there will be a contrast in existence between God's will and "not" God's will--God's will being what will lead us to heaven and the antithesis being what will lead us to hell.

If I understand correctly, God has us jump through the hoops here on Earth so that we will earn the right or choose to be with him in the afterlife. So by allowing Satan to exist, he gives us the choice of choosing the path to salvation or choosing the path to destruction.

So what if you have no natural yearning or draw (that you can discern) to be in God's presence but would still like to enjoy heaven? If you strive to live by God's word and "jump through all the hoops," do you make it into heaven on these principles alone? Or does your heart truly have to be in it. And, does being this way qualify you as being "luke warm," which would automatically put you in the line for hell? Can a person like me, who has been to church but has never felt God's presence or the inner desire to be with God make it to heaven? And is this my fault?

[5stringJeff]

What is your opinion? Would there be a need for gender in heaven (or hell)? Think about it. Why would God need sexual parts? Why would our souls need them? Wouldn't it stand to reason that gender is something that is only needed in the corporeal world we live in to sustain biological processes? And if you knew the answer to the question "does the human soul have a gender," and the answer was no, would it change how you view gay marriage? If the human soul had no gender but was instead only comprised of our intellects and personalities, wouldn't it make the importance we place on the nomenclatures of hetero/homo relationships kind of pointless? And wouldn't it raise questions about the passages in the Bible that are against homosexuality?

Interesting question.

Do our souls have gender? No, I don't think so.

However, our physical selves do have gender. It's in our chromosomes - quite literally in every cell in our bodies. So just because our souls don't have gender attached doesn't mean that we are free to ignore our gender.

As for gay marriage, the question is not whether or not our souls are genderless, but whether or not homosexual behavior is moral or not. And if God says (as He does in the Bible) that it is immoral, then, from my perspective, it is immoral.

[Hagbard Celine]

Interesting question.

Do our souls have gender? No, I don't think so.

However, our physical selves do have gender. It's in our chromosomes - quite literally in every cell in our bodies. So just because our souls don't have gender attached doesn't mean that we are free to ignore our gender.

As for gay marriage, the question is not whether or not our souls are genderless, but whether or not homosexual behavior is moral or not. And if God says (as He does in the Bible) that it is immoral, then, from my perspective, it is immoral.

So God's word is what labels a behavior as "immoral." Correct? Under this line of thinking, wouldn't it also be immoral to eat shellfish or pork as well because the Bible also states that this is against the law? I assume you're deriving your basis for the Bible's stance on homosexuality from Leviticus correct?

[5stringJeff]

In other words, why does it matter who we have sex with here on Earth? Doesn't it seem pointless to fight over sexual orientation here on Earth? Why are homos considered sinners?

God created sex for procreation, for enjoyment, and as an emotional "glue" between two people. And when God created sex, He set the guidelines within which to enjoy it: marriage. And He instituted marriage as a covenant between a man and a woman.

Why did He do it that way? Probably because He understood the importance of families and the mess we would make if people were having sex with whomever they wanted, whenever they wanted: lots of out-of-wedlock kids, single mothers with little means of support, men who don't raise their own children, etc.

[5stringJeff]

So God's word is what labels a behavior as "immoral." Correct? Under this line of thinking, wouldn't it also be immoral to eat shellfish or pork as well because the Bible also states that this is against the law? I assume you're deriving your basis for the Bible's stance on homosexuality from Leviticus correct?

I take my stance on homosexuality based on reading the entire Bible holistically, not just on the passages of Leviticus. You'll read in Mark's gospel, and again in the Books of Romans and Galatians, that ceremonial laws had been "repealed," so to speak, because Christ set us free from having to follow the ceremonial law.

[5stringJeff]

So basically this life is a test. If we make a high enough score our consciousness will live forever with God in heaven. Doesn't that make life seem a little pointless?

Well, in a sense, it's a one-question test: do you believe in Jesus the Messiah? But beyond that, once we understand God's love for us, our rational response is to live in obedience to God. We don't obey in order to become saved; we obey because we have been saved.

[5stringJeff]

You mean you don't know what is right and wrong? I don't need a god to tell me what is right and wrong.

Then who tells you what is right and wrong? You? And if so, what's to stop me from making up my own right and wrong? And what happens when my "right" is your "wrong," or vice versa?

[5stringJeff]

So what if you have no natural yearning or draw (that you can discern) to be in God's presence but would still like to enjoy heaven? If you strive to live by God's word and "jump through all the hoops," do you make it into heaven on these principles alone? Or does your heart truly have to be in it. And, does being this way qualify you as being "luke warm," which would automatically put you in the line for hell? Can a person like me, who has been to church but has never felt God's presence or the inner desire to be with God make it to heaven? And is this my fault?

Like I posted before, it's more than just "following the rules." It's believing in Jesus as God's Messiah - the one who died in substitution for you to atone for your sins. It has nothing to do with feelings and everything to do with a conscious decision to believe.

[Mr. P]

Like I posted before, it's more than just "following the rules." It's believing in Jesus as God's Messiah - the one who died in substitution for you to atone for your sins. It has nothing to do with feelings and everything to do with a conscious decision to believe.

Good new thread for sure. Why did anyone have to die for my sin?

After all, we all die anyway. And according to some Christian denominations, all ya gotta do before death is ask for forgiveness and the slate is wiped clean.

Then sin is based on belief of right vs wrong, so sin for one is not for another I guess.

[darin]

After all, we all die anyway. And according to some Christian denominations, all ya gotta do before death is ask for forgiveness and the slate is wiped clean.


I've never heard that. Weird. Christianity believes one must be 'sincere' - not a courtesy 'I'm sorry prayer' but one must come to a realization of Christ's divinity. That 'can' happen seconds before death, though.

The WORST part about seconds-before-death conversion is this: One spends their entire life living as less-than they could be had they submitted to God's call on their heart earlier. :)

[Hagbard Celine]

Good new thread for sure. Why did anyone have to die for my sin?

After all, we all die anyway. And according to some Christian denominations, all ya gotta do before death is ask for forgiveness and the slate is wiped clean.

Then sin is based on belief of right vs wrong, so sin for one is not for another I guess.

This is kinda what my original thought for this thread was. The designation of "sin" is based solely on God's conferring this designation onto certain behaviors. Since we've established that we will not even have gender in the afterlife, my question is why do "sins" of the flesh have any bearing on our salvation? The answer is (taking the Bible's legitimacy as the word of God at face value) that they have bearing solely because God says they do. In my mind's eye, that makes their designation as "sins" very arbitrary--it's a hoop we have to jump through to get to heaven. For me, it throws a wrench into God's message of "love" for humanity. It seems mean spirited to torture someone's soul for eternity just because they failed to follow an arbitrary rule. :huh:

*I should say that I'm not gay. I'm just arguing on behalf of gays.

[Mr. P]

I've never heard that. Weird. Christianity believes one must be 'sincere' - not a courtesy 'I'm sorry prayer' but one must come to a realization of Christ's divinity. That 'can' happen seconds before death, though.

The WORST part about seconds-before-death conversion is this: One spends their entire life living as less-than they could be had they submitted to God's call on their heart earlier. :)

You should study more.:poke:

[Nienna]

This is kinda what my original thought for this thread was. The designation of "sin" is based solely on God's conferring this designation onto certain behaviors. Since we've established that we will not even have gender in the afterlife, my question is why do "sins" of the flesh have any bearing on our salvation?
It's kind of hard to distinguish "sins of the flesh" from "other sins." Sin is sin. Period. We commit ALL sins inside our bodies. In the Bible, the word "flesh" is used to describe a set of tendencies or repeated behaviors that we have.


The answer is (taking the Bible's legitimacy as the word of God at face value) that they have bearing solely because God says they do. In my mind's eye, that makes their designation as "sins" very arbitrary--it's a hoop we have to jump through to get to heaven. For me, it throws a wrench into God's message of "love" for humanity. It seems mean spirited to torture someone's soul for eternity just because they failed to follow an arbitrary rule.

Well, of course some things are arbitrary. God CREATED them to be how He wanted them. That is the benefit of being the Creator: He got to make things the way HE wanted them.

The message of love cannot be understood until we first understand our position as created beings. We were not made for ourselves. Suppose you were making a universe... would you make a bunch of creatures just to let them run around and do whatever they wanted? God made this universe to glorify Himself. We were made by Him and for His purposes. We don't DESERVE anything; He gets to decide our purpose, because He made us.

Once that is understood, the message of love can be seen. That even though He made us for His own purposes, even though every single one of us (except Jesus) has at one point or another rejected God's authority and done things our own way, even though we have tried to twist His plan to get what WE want, He still made a way for us to return to Him. He still LONGS for us to have a relationship with Him. He sent His perfect Son to die so that the just price for our sin would be payed. THAT is love.

If someone STILL rejects His authority, after all that, what should be done? After all, God is a JUST God. Should no punishment be given? It is a choice. God gave the gift of free will.

[Pale Rider]

Frankly, I think our souls will have a gender, because you will be yourself, either male or female. You may not have any use for said parts determining gender, but they could still be there.

And that is my opinion, just for the sake of debate. How will we ever know beyond our opinion?

[darin]

Frankly, I think our souls will have a gender, because you will be yourself, either male or female. You may not have any use for said parts determining gender, but they could still be there.

And that is my opinion, just for the sake of debate. How will we ever know beyond our opinion?

I think it boils down to this: Will we have NEED to poo or pee? To procreate? Not likely IMO - but not impossible I guess. As we won't be given into marriage, I can't see 'mating' happening. :)

[Nienna]

But, apart from the above, the original question is fascinating to me. I have actually been thinking a lot about it, lately. My gender is more than just my sex organs. Like Jeff said, it is written in every cell in my body. But even more than that, it shapes my personality, desires, and emotional needs.

God made humans, male and female. They complement each other, not just physically, but emotionally. The two halves are symbolic of the duality of God's nature: His justice and his love.

I wonder if, in Heaven, will we have a partner? The one person whom God created as our perfect complement, from sometime in history... not to procreate, but to PARTNER, for our work in Eternity...Is this where we get the idea of a "soul mate"? Or, will we not need that any more? Will God, Himself, be the completion of our souls? Will we interact with one another in Heaven, or will it just be us & God forever?

[Hagbard Celine]

But, apart from the above, the original question is fascinating to me. I have actually been thinking a lot about it, lately. My gender is more than just my sex organs. Like Jeff said, it is written in every cell in my body. But even more than that, it shapes my personality, desires, and emotional needs.

God made humans, male and female. They complement each other, not just physically, but emotionally. The two halves are symbolic of the duality of God's nature: His justice and his love.

I wonder if, in Heaven, will we have a partner? The one person whom God created as our perfect complement, from sometime in history... not to procreate, but to PARTNER, for our work in Eternity...Is this where we get the idea of a "soul mate"? Or, will we not need that any more? Will God, Himself, be the completion of our souls? Will we interact with one another in Heaven, or will it just be us & God forever?
I prefer to think of heaven as it is portrayed in popular culture--as a paradise where our every whim and desire is granted and everything is perfect. Your body is idyllic and never ages or gets damaged. I hope that God will walk and talk with us as he did with Adam in the garden. If eternity means kneeling at the foot of the throne, I don't think I like the sound of that.

[Nienna]

Well... I can't answer that from a Christian perspective, but I can answer if from mine. Kabbalah says that each of the attributes of G-d (sephirot) have to be in balance, kind of like yin and yang. In order for good to exist as good, there has to be evil to contrast it. We are given free will about the path we choose. Also, in Judaism, there is no hell. Satan is simply the most beautiful of angels who was cast out for his arrogance in thinking he was G-d's equal.

In Kabbalah, are there more attributes of God than just "good" and "evil"?

That's interesting. I always thought of "good" and "truth" and "light" standing alone. However, "evil" and "lies" and "darkness" do not exist except as the opposition of the first set of things.

[darin]

I prefer to think of heaven as it is portrayed in popular culture--as a paradise where our every whim and desire is granted and everything is perfect. Your body is idyllic and never ages or gets damaged. I hope that God will walk and talk with us as he did with Adam in the garden. If eternity means kneeling at the foot of the throne, I don't think I like the sound of that.

That's a fairly self-centered idea of heaven, brother...IF heaven is eternally kneeling at God's foot, I know it'll be more fulfilling that I could ever imagine. God does not give us bad things. That's how he rolls.

[Nienna]

I prefer to think of heaven as it is portrayed in popular culture--as a paradise where our every whim and desire is granted and everything is perfect. Your body is idyllic and never ages or gets damaged. I hope that God will walk and talk with us as he did with Adam in the garden. If eternity means kneeling at the foot of the throne, I don't think I like the sound of that.

LOL! Yeah... in my human nature, sometimes I'm not sure I like it too much either. :) But, I acknowledge that God is God. I bend to HIS will, not He to mine. Well... at least I TRY to. Well, sometimes, I stop trying. :( But then I start again. :)

I tend to think we will have perfect bodies, too, and that God will walk & talk with us as He did Adam & Eve. I also think we will be given a task, or many tasks, but it will be FUN and INTERESTING, not work. I remember when we were kids, and we had all these projects... once we had a buckeye "factory." The neighbor boy climbed the buckeye tree and shook it until a bunch of buckeyes fell down. My little sisters would gather them and bring them across the trail to me, my other sister, and the neighbor girl. With sharp, flat rocks, we would chop the spiny hulls off the buckeyes to get out the smooth round pit. We filled a five-gallon bucket full of buckeyes. My dad drilled holes in them, and we strung them together as necklaces. It was a lot of work, but we couldn't wait to get home from school to do it, because it was FUN. I think our work in Heaven will be like that--- discovering, exploring, building, growing. And we will all be able to work together in harmony without envy and destruction. And everything will be done for God's glory, with gratitude and awe at what He made possible. And everyone will do what he is best suited to do; everyone will play a necessary part in the tasks, so no one will be without purpose. And then, at very special times, we will be called into the city, into His throne room, to worship all together and give praise and to glorify the One who made us! :D

Or so I imagine. :)

[Gunny]

You mean you don't know what is right and wrong? I don't need a god to tell me what is right and wrong.

As to the original question - yet another logical reason not to believe. What do you do in heaven all day - play cribbage?

No you don't because you have somewhat learned what your Western, Judeo-Christian-based society has taught you is right and wrong.

[jillian]

In Kabbalah, are there more attributes of God than just "good" and "evil"?

That's interesting. I always thought of "good" and "truth" and "light" standing alone. However, "evil" and "lies" and "darkness" do not exist except as the opposition of the first set of things.

Kabbalah is very interesting, but this can probably describe it far better than I cout.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sephirot

[Hagbard Celine]

LOL! Yeah... in my human nature, sometimes I'm not sure I like it too much either. :) But, I acknowledge that God is God. I bend to HIS will, not He to mine. Well... at least I TRY to. Well, sometimes, I stop trying. :( But then I start again. :)

I tend to think we will have perfect bodies, too, and that God will walk & talk with us as He did Adam & Eve. I also think we will be given a task, or many tasks, but it will be FUN and INTERESTING, not work. I remember when we were kids, and we had all these projects... once we had a buckeye "factory." The neighbor boy climbed the buckeye tree and shook it until a bunch of buckeyes fell down. My little sisters would gather them and bring them across the trail to me, my other sister, and the neighbor girl. With sharp, flat rocks, we would chop the spiny hulls off the buckeyes to get out the smooth round pit. We filled a five-gallon bucket full of buckeyes. My dad drilled holes in them, and we strung them together as necklaces. It was a lot of work, but we couldn't wait to get home from school to do it, because it was FUN. I think our work in Heaven will be like that--- discovering, exploring, building, growing. And we will all be able to work together in harmony without envy and destruction. And everything will be done for God's glory, with gratitude and awe at what He made possible. And everyone will do what he is best suited to do; everyone will play a necessary part in the tasks, so no one will be without purpose. And then, at very special times, we will be called into the city, into His throne room, to worship all together and give praise and to glorify the One who made us! :D

Or so I imagine. :)
I like your version. But you forgot the buffets! :) In heaven there will be a never-ending buffet! and all the drinks will be comped :laugh:

[darin]

In heaven there will be a never-ending buffet!


eh????

http://www.concertlivewire.com/jpegs/buffett1.jpg

[Abbey Marie]

I prefer to think of heaven as it is portrayed in popular culture--as a paradise where our every whim and desire is granted and everything is perfect. Your body is idyllic and never ages or gets damaged. I hope that God will walk and talk with us as he did with Adam in the garden. If eternity means kneeling at the foot of the throne, I don't think I like the sound of that.

I can understand how people can feel this way. But because the most powerful and overwhelming experience I have ever had happened in church while worshipping God, I am totally down with it. :) In moments of doubt, I remember that experience, and I know it will be a warmth, light and joy that we cannot yet fathom.

[Yurt]

So basically this life is a test. If we make a high enough score our consciousness will live forever with God in heaven. Doesn't that make life seem a little pointless?


Nothing to do with score, it has to do with your heart. The thief on the cross probably had a "low score" yet he believed and Jesus told him that they would be together in heaven.

It really has to do with where your heart is. This is what Paul goes into when he talks about faith over works.

As to who we have sex with, DMP summed it up perfectly in the second post. It is about harm. The first four commandments are for God, the rest are for mankind. Homosexuality is an abomination to God. I have posted facts from gay sites that admit that aids is really a gay disease. I have no problem with "gay" people, so long as they don't have anal sex. Same goes for hetrosexual people. Anal sex is dirty and an abomination.

Or do you disagree?