How can you win hearts and minds.....

[truthmatters]

When all factions see you as the problem?

It seems all the factions of Iraq agree on at least one thing.... That our presence is the reason for the violence.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/18/AR2007121802262_pf.html


Iraqis of all sectarian and ethnic groups believe that the U.S. military invasion is the primary root of the violent differences among them, and see the departure of "occupying forces" as the key to national reconciliation, according to focus groups conducted for the U.S. military last month.

[Dilloduck]

When all factions see you as the problem?

It seems all the factions of Iraq agree on at least one thing.... That our presence is the reason for the violence.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/18/AR2007121802262_pf.html


Iraqis of all sectarian and ethnic groups believe that the U.S. military invasion is the primary root of the violent differences among them, and see the departure of "occupying forces" as the key to national reconciliation, according to focus groups conducted for the U.S. military last month.

" Hearts and minds " has always been bullshit. We dont want em to love us. We just want em to get their shit together so we can get out of there.

[truthmatters]

Dude they are saying they cant get their shit together because wer are there.

That is just the point here.

[Dilloduck]

Dude they are saying they cant get their shit together because wer are there.

That is just the point here.

Lame excuse but I'm sure you would like to believe it.

[jimnyc]

Dude

I see your vocabulary is improving. Soon you'll be on the 5th grade level.

[darin]

When all factions see you as the problem?

It seems all the factions of Iraq agree on at least one thing.... That our presence is the reason for the violence.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/18/AR2007121802262_pf.html


Iraqis of all sectarian and ethnic groups believe that the U.S. military invasion is the primary root of the violent differences among them, and see the departure of "occupying forces" as the key to national reconciliation, according to focus groups conducted for the U.S. military last month.

How's the kool-aide?


U.S. forces thus moved from clearing operations in former enemy sanctuaries to the next stage, called maintenance operations, by which they controlled and retained cleared territory. Holding terrain is troop-intensive, and it requires offensive as well as defensive operations. In past years, U.S. forces relied almost exclusively on Iraqi security forces to preserve gains after clearing operations, because of lack of troops and because of the focus on a rapid transition to Iraqis. U.S. forces in 2007 likewise relied on their partner units in the Iraqi army and Iraqi police, and the greater number of Iraqi and American troops meant that more soldiers were available to hold terrain. The cooperation of Iraqi citizens, serving as interim and regular police, increased the ability of all forces to hold terrain.

The rejection of al Qaeda by the Ramadi sheikhs in late 2006 has been widely reported. General Petraeus transformed the tribal movement in Anbar into a national phenomenon supportive of government institutions. U.S. commanders fostered grassroots movements throughout Iraq, methodically negotiating security agreements with local officials, tribes, and former insurgent leaders. They thus achieved one of the major objectives of the counterinsurgency strategy by reconciling much of the Sunni population with the government.

Diyala Province, which has an extremely complex network of Sunni, Shia, and mixed tribes, illustrates the complementary relationship between improving security and movements of concerned citizens. As U.S. forces reconnoitered Baquba and its vicinity, some locals who had once fought the Americans as insurgents began cooperating with U.S. and Iraqi security forces against al Qaeda. These leaders helped U.S. forces clear enemy sanctuaries during the summer offensive by revealing enemy positions and weapons caches. For example, members of the 1920s Brigades--a Sunni insurgent group that operated alongside al Qaeda until May--in Baquba identified the specific locations of rigged houses and deep-buried IEDs before the city was cleared in June. Reconciliation efforts proceeded as soon as U.S. and Iraqi forces had cleared western Baquba, and rippled outward through the Diyala River valley as U.S. forces eliminated the enemy there. Tribal leaders in Diyala recruited locals to guard their communities alongside U.S. and Iraqi forces. Citizens did so with the aim not only of preventing the return of terrorists, but also of joining the Iraqi police and thus supporting the government of Iraq.

The summer offensive widened the scope of the population's movement against al Qaeda and other terrorists. Locals willing to cooperate with Americans and Iraqi security forces might jump-start clearing efforts, as in Hawr Rajab, but few locals turned against al Qaeda before military operations cleared terrorist sanctuaries. Rather, the "concerned local citizens" movements generally spread after U.S. and Iraqi forces, partnered together, cleared an area. For example, after removing al Qaeda leadership in Tarmiya, U.S. conventional forces conducted a series of large, coordinated operations there in mid-September, to remove an illegal court and clear gigantic caches of explosives. These operations set the stage for the concerned local citizens movement in Tarmiya, which had proceeded fitfully in June, July, and August because of al Qaeda's presence in the city. In mid-September, over 1,200 men volunteered within two days to serve as volunteers for a new provisional security group known as the Critical Infrastructure Security Contract Force to help defend Tarmiya, alongside U.S. and Iraqi security forces, and helped to hold Tarmiya against encroaching enemy forces. As of November 1, 2007, approximately 60,000 Iraqis had volunteered to protect their local communities as part of these fully screened and monitored forces.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=8836

[AFbombloader]

When di the US Government ever say we wanted to stay in Iraq forever? The plan from the beginning was to leave when they Iraqi people could take care of themselves. This is what is happening now, and you try to use it as a negative???? What we are doing is working and we will come home when the job is done.
As to the US being the cause of all the fighting in Iraq. What a load of crap. When have the Sunni's, Shiite's and Kurdish people ever gotten along? They now have a common complaint, that is all.
From your article it seems that they will still fight when we are gone. They will still want to control the country, each group.

Warshaw added: "In Iraq, I just don't hear statements that come from any of the Sunni, Shiite or Kurdish groups that say 'We recognize that we need to share power with the others, that we can't truly dominate.' "

AF:salute:

[truthmatters]

So you belive a month old Kimberly Kagan article over focus groups conducted for the U.S. military ?

Wow you are deluded.


AFb the Iraqis seem to be telling us over and over to leave.

Why is it you want to continue to occupy their country?

[Yurt]

So because we are there they "can't" get their stuff together? That's like blaming your parents that you can't go out and get drunk at a party when you are 10 years old.

As to previous violence -- none? Are you effing serious? You don't think Saddam terrorized that country? They knew that if they fought Saddam would brutalize them. That is a fact. So you are effectively saying that we need another Saddam or we must act just like saddam.

[glockmail]

Iraqis of all sectarian and ethnic groups believe that the U.S. military invasion is the primary root of the violent differences among them, and see the departure of "occupying forces" as the key to national reconciliation, according to focus groups conducted for the U.S. military last month.

Gee, that seems to conflict mightilly with what our resident expert on sunni-shia relations, maineman, has stated repeatedly. Could he be fullofshit?

[Hagbard Celine]

When all factions see you as the problem?

It seems all the factions of Iraq agree on at least one thing.... That our presence is the reason for the violence.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/18/AR2007121802262_pf.html


Iraqis of all sectarian and ethnic groups believe that the U.S. military invasion is the primary root of the violent differences among them, and see the departure of "occupying forces" as the key to national reconciliation, according to focus groups conducted for the U.S. military last month.

That's pure bullsh*t. Sunnis and Shias have been at each other's throats since Muhammed died. (centuries ago)

[Little-Acorn]

Iraqis of all sectarian and ethnic groups believe that

So somebody went into every group and rooted round until they found at least one person griping about the US, so they could then claim "Iraqis of all groups"?

Predictably, truthmutters obediently lapped it up, swallowed it whole, and "translated" it even further until "all the factions agreed".

At this rate, it won't be long before it's unanimous. May as well leave now. :lol:

[hjmick]

How's the kool-aide?



http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=8836

It was Flavor Aid, damn it! I'm tired of Kool Aid getting a bad rap!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/hjmc3rd/flavoraid2.jpg

[manu1959]

Dude they are saying they cant get their shit together because wer are there.

That is just the point here.

yes it is always someone elses fault.....

[gabosaurus]

Iraq is helpful in allowing the Bushies and their loyalists to get their war on. Bush got his revenge on Saddam, and that is what is really important. The almost 4,000 deaths since then are only details.

[Hagbard Celine]

It was Flavor Aid, damn it! I'm tired of Kool Aid getting a bad rap!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/hjmc3rd/flavoraid2.jpg

I for one am glad that someone is out there fighting the battles that really matter. Would you ever consider running for public office?

[hjmick]

I for one am glad that someone is out there fighting the battles that really matter. Would you ever consider running for public office?

LOL. I tried to rep you, but I need to spread some around.

[avatar4321]

speak the truth.

[manu1959]

Iraq is helpful in allowing the Bushies and their loyalists to get their war on. Bush got his revenge on Saddam, and that is what is really important. The almost 4,000 deaths since then are only details.

makes you wonder why the anti-bushies don't do something to stop it...

[AFbombloader]

So you belive a month old Kimberly Kagan article over focus groups conducted for the U.S. military ?

Wow you are deluded.


AFb the Iraqis seem to be telling us over and over to leave.

Why is it you want to continue to occupy their country?

Where did I say they don't want us to leave? The point is, they are not ready to run their country on their own. It is kinda like my 11 year old telling me he is ready to stay home by himself for the weekend. Could he do it? Probably, but he is not ready.

And I have said in the past that I want my brothers and sisters in the service to come home. Most likely, more that most people because I have close, personal friends over there, people who I have worked with and been friends with for years. I really don't want any more people to have to go over there in 10 more years so I would like to have the job finished correctly this time. Would you rather have a half assed job done? I have been over there about 10 times in the last 15 years, I think we should make this trip the last.


AF:salute:

[Little-Acorn]

Iraq is helpful in allowing the Bushies and their loyalists to get their war on. Bush got his revenge on Saddam, and that is what is really important. The almost 4,000 deaths since then are only details.

Wow, three lies for the price of one!

Gabby is getting positively efficient in his old age. :lame2:

[actsnoblemartin]

one of the best thoughts ive seen in a long time.


" Hearts and minds " has always been bullshit. We dont want em to love us. We just want em to get their shit together so we can get out of there.

[bullypulpit]

" Hearts and minds " has always been bullshit. We dont want em to love us. We just want em to get their shit together so we can get out of there.

If we hadn't gone into Iraq in the frst place this would all be moot, now wouldn't it.

[Dilloduck]

If we hadn't gone into Iraq in the frst place this would all be moot, now wouldn't it.

Since the downsides of NOT invading Iraq are impossible to evaluate, we can't really determine what would have been the better decision, now can we ?

[red states rule]

If we hadn't gone into Iraq in the frst place this would all be moot, now wouldn't it.

We all know libs would rather have Saddam in power, the rape rooms operating, the mass graves filling up. and his payments to terrorist groups continuing

[Pale Rider]

Wow, three lies for the price of one!

Gabby is getting positively efficient in his old age. :lame2:

Gabby = "she"

[red states rule]

Gabby = "she"

As much as she lies, she must write speeches for Hillary