Chart comparing Military Rank to Civilian Grades

[darin]

I found this interesting. :)


http://www.manpower.usmc.mil/portal/page?_pageid=278,2010387&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL


What I DON'T Get is E9: GS7. E9s (senior NCOs) run things.

[5stringJeff]

I found this interesting. :)


http://www.manpower.usmc.mil/portal/page?_pageid=278,2010387&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL


What I DON'T Get is E9: GS7. E9s (senior NCOs) run things.

Senior NCOs are hard to figure out equivalencies with. The Sergeant Major of the Army walked in to a brigade training meeting I was in, chaired by a major. He, and everyone else in that room, was at attention while the SMA was walking around shaking hands.

[retiredman]

Senior NCOs are hard to figure out equivalencies with. The Sergeant Major of the Army walked in to a brigade training meeting I was in, chaired by a major. He, and everyone else in that room, was at attention while the SMA was walking around shaking hands.

I agree.... senior E9's are a special breed of cat.... I had a similar experience with the MCPO of the Atlantic Fleet once... I think I was a Lieutenant at the time...I may have technically "outranked" him, but I didn't really.

[JohnDoe]

the link is a blank for me???

[82Marine89]

the link is a blank for me???

That's just your mind. :laugh2:

[JohnDoe]

That's just your mind. :laugh2:

:laugh2: but does it work for you? i have gone in to it three times and keep getting a blank???

AND, i swear, ''me does have a brain'' :slap:, not just a body.... unlike what actsnoblemartin may think of us women!

jd

[82Marine89]

:laugh2: but does it work for you? i have gone in to it three times and keep getting a blank???

AND, i swear, ''me does have a brain'' :slap:, not just a body.... unlike what actsnoblemartin may think of us women!

jd

I had to verify the certificate for it, but I can see it.

Now about that body...

[retiredman]

I had to verify the certificate for it, but I can see it.

Now about that body...

jd is a hottie...I've seen pix

[82Marine89]

jd is a hottie...I've seen pix

Lucky bastard.

[retiredman]

Lucky bastard.

I would have to agree!

[JohnDoe]

flattery will get you everywhere MFM! LOL

BUT please stop! lmao!!!!

I'm a sadie, a married lady!

You've always respected that....and i thank you for it!!!

and honestly, thanks for the compliments!!!

love and kisses.... ;)

jd

[pegwinn]

Civil Service grades are really wierd. I had an EPA guy in the Motor Pool wearing out my hazmat NCO. I told him to shove off or be escorted out. I got a call to go see the Bn Co. Seems this lil pouge outranked the Colonel. CO "counseled" me about threatening pouges with double digit GS ratings.

All in all it was sooo much fun to watch him stalk out of the motor pool with that pissed off kid look. :laugh2:

[retiredman]

flattery will get you everywhere MFM! LOL

BUT please stop! lmao!!!!

I'm a sadie, a married lady!

You've always respected that....and i thank you for it!!!

and honestly, thanks for the complements!!!

love and kisses.... ;)

jd

your husband is the lucky one.

btw... how ya like late autumn in Maine? lol

[JohnDoe]

your husband is the lucky one.

btw... how ya like late autumn in Maine? lol


man oh man! What a difference a year makes!!! last year, we moved in here on 12/15 and the movers had to take their jackets off it was so warm!!!

and this year, we have AT LEAST 24 inches of snow on the ground AND it is snowing again as we speak!!!!

what the heck?????

so far i like it though, got a neighbor with a plow so he does our drive for free and the meadow is pretty all white, but haven't gotten my first oil bill yet!!!! :eek:

jd

[darin]

Civil Service grades are really wierd. I had an EPA guy in the Motor Pool wearing out my hazmat NCO. I told him to shove off or be escorted out. I got a call to go see the Bn Co. Seems this lil pouge outranked the Colonel. CO "counseled" me about threatening pouges with double digit GS ratings.

All in all it was sooo much fun to watch him stalk out of the motor pool with that pissed off kid look. :laugh2:

Depends on context, I suppose. At the pentagon, GS14s and 15s are action officers - around here, they are GS11s and 12s.

Any GS (or other civil service folk) employee worth their salary remembers we're here to make the lives of soldiers - their jobs - easier, better. We work because of the soldiers we support. Attached is the chart for those who can't view the link. I goofed splicing it together - as you'll see at the bottom, when the text starts.

[glockmail]

jd is a hottie...I've seen pix

The planets must be lined up again.
Yeah, she's cute.

http://www.geocities.com/care4all2/pictures4.JPG

[rppearso]

I think some people on here need to find there own wife. On line dating is awsome, I met my wife that way, anyways,

If I had my masters degree in optical physics I could apply for a GS-13 position working in laser research or missle defense, I am working on my chemical PE right now and will eventually get my physics masters, I think it would be fun to be able to tell just about anyone in the military where to stick it (being I used to be in the army national guard as an E-4 OC and got the crap hazed out of me and ended up bailing out of the guard) its always fun when the tables are turned. Although I would not let an enlisted soldier (E-9 or otherwise) get the satisfaction of the pissed little kid stomp off, I would make sure they were written an official conseling statement and push to have them busted down if they acted in a disagreeable manner often enough. SES is a burecrate and they disappear right along with the president.

[LiberalNation]

lol a few hard feeling towards the army there.

[rppearso]

I got burned pretty hard so I figure turn about is fair play.

[LiberalNation]

Shrugs, that's normal. Bunch of military folks here that will prolly give ya a hard time for it tho. Some nice fights, ought to be fun to watch.

[rppearso]

If that is the case then this should be a nice change from the other forums I used to go to where a thread would be slammed shut as soon as anything slightly controversial came up, debate forums are great breaks from studying for my Chemical PE exam. If it gets to the point of fighting its not fun anymore, heated intellectual debate is great though.

[pegwinn]

I think some people on here need to find there own wife. On line dating is awsome, I met my wife that way, anyways,

If I had my masters degree in optical physics I could apply for a GS-13 position working in laser research or missle defense, I am working on my chemical PE right now and will eventually get my physics masters, I think it would be fun to be able to tell just about anyone in the military where to stick it (being I used to be in the army national guard as an E-4 OC and got the crap hazed out of me and ended up bailing out of the guard) its always fun when the tables are turned. Although I would not let an enlisted soldier (E-9 or otherwise) get the satisfaction of the pissed little kid stomp off, I would make sure they were written an official conseling statement and push to have them busted down if they acted in a disagreeable manner often enough. SES is a burecrate and they disappear right along with the president.

LOL. Couple things grasshopper,

First: You must learn the system well enough to follow your ambitions. It takes far more than pissing off a pouge to "bust down" Pvt's and PFC's let alone the senior enlisted.

Second: If you encounter a senior enlisted guy dumb enough to fuck it all to hell well enough that you can influence things and bust him..... he's too stupid for his stripes. Think of it as evolution in action.

Your Kung Fu is weak. But you will learn and grow strong.

[rppearso]

LOL. Couple things grasshopper,

First: You must learn the system well enough to follow your ambitions. It takes far more than pissing off a pouge to "bust down" Pvt's and PFC's let alone the senior enlisted.

Second: If you encounter a senior enlisted guy dumb enough to fuck it all to hell well enough that you can influence things and bust him..... he's too stupid for his stripes. Think of it as evolution in action.

Your Kung Fu is weak. But you will learn and grow strong.

Why are they called pouges, is it some sort of derogitory term, because I know the military hates civilians. If I were to work in missle defense or laser research I would expect to be left alone by anyone in a uniform and if they leave me alone I have no problems, but if there is even a a shead of belittlement from someone in uniform im going to make sure there is a paper trail, but I guess that would fall back to your comment on the nco being smart enough to keep his stripes and leave the GS people alone.

[pegwinn]

Grasshopper, the lessons begin,


Why are they called pouges, is it some sort of derogitory term, because I know the military hates civilians. My young friend. For someone who enlisted with a degree and is now working on his masters, you lack knowlege. Your statement is reflective of one who is rationalizing failure. The military doesn't hate civilians so much as tolerate them.

If I were to work in missle defense or laser research I would expect to be left alone by anyone in a uniform And you would be disappointed. The point of GS's is to place a non-shooter in a specialty position for the long term. That doesn't mean that you would not have to work with them. I know that they are all illiterate thugs, but part of those big bux would be for putting up with them.

and if they leave me alone I have no problems, Well, that is good to know.

but if there is even a a shead of belittlement from someone in uniform im going to make sure there is a paper trail, Heh. The idealism of youth.

but I guess that would fall back to your comment on the nco being smart enough to keep his stripes and leave the GS people alone. It's not about leaving you alone. It's about knowing just what you can and cannot get away with. Unlike civilians, the military is concentrated with the best and brightest. Everyone is a predator. And the more rank you have, the sharper the teeth.

Your Kung Fu is very weak. Yet, if you apply yourself, you may yet grow strong.

[Psychoblues]

No, no, pegwinn. Grasshopper must want to learn, respect his teachers and remember his lessons.




Grasshopper, the lessons begin,



Your Kung Fu is very weak. Yet, if you apply yourself, you may yet grow strong.

You are not communicating with any Grasshopper. Dig it?

[rppearso]

I guess the way I see it is, if they are going to hire me as a GS-13/14 for my technical ability then military members should be a non issue because if they truely needed someone there to give them automatic advancement to GS-13/14 then military members would be on there best behavior otherwise I would likely quit the job because I would question there need for what I do if they were allowing harrasment, also when you work as a GS there are workplace codes of conduct and hazing in the real world is nothing like in the military so even if I couldent bust him down I could file suit. The bottom line is if they need you there the BS will magicly go away and if not I will quit, when it comes down to it, its really simple. I dont play the sharp teeth game, if you want to be a schmuck then obviously I dont add enough value to be respected so I will go away. You can also tell people who are holding there toung becasue they know they cant do something and thoes people are irritating to be around when you are trying to do a difficult job.

[Psychoblues]

Whew!!!!!!!! What a conglomeration of pure bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!



I guess the way I see it is, if they are going to hire me as a GS-13/14 for my technical ability then military members should be a non issue because if they truely needed someone there to give them automatic advancement to GS-13/14 then military members would be on there best behavior otherwise I would likely quit the job because I would question there need for what I do if they were allowing harrasment, also when you work as a GS there are workplace codes of conduct and hazing in the real world is nothing like in the military so even if I couldent bust him down I could file suit. The bottom line is if they need you there the BS will magicly go away and if not I will quit, when it comes down to it, its really simple. I dont play the sharp teeth game, if you want to be a schmuck then obviously I dont add enough value to be respected so I will go away. You can also tell people who are holding there toung becasue they know they cant do something and thoes people are irritating to be around when you are trying to do a difficult job.

Like I said earlier, good luck on your new gig, rp!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GS14/15? I seriously doubt it!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pegwinn]

Grasshopper, it is good to see you did not quit. For quitting normally is a character flaw of one who cannot, as the french say "Paque Le Gear".


I guess the way I see it is, if they are going to hire me as a GS-13/14 for my technical ability then military members should be a non issue because if they truely needed someone there to give them automatic advancement to GS-13/14 then military members would be on there best behavior otherwise I would likely quit the job The active duty guys very likely would not be on "there best behavior". IF you are making that kind of money much would be expected. IF you could not get along with them, well, you would not get the change to quit. You would get the boot.

because I would question there need for what I do if they were allowing harrasment, also when you work as a GS there are workplace codes of conduct and hazing in the real world is nothing like in the military so even if I couldent bust him down I could file suit. What codes of conduct are you inferring Grasshopper? As to filing suit, I doubt it. The onus of proof is on you. As to hazing.... well hazing normally applies to those entering a special situation. Being a mere civilian employee (albeit a well paid one) simply doesn't rate being hazed. Your worries are for naught.

The bottom line is if they need you there the BS will magicly go away and if not I will quit, Grasshopper. You must learn that quitting is not respected. Unless you can demonstrate that the situation was intolerable or ethically challenging you will quickly develop a reputation as a weakling at worst or a prima donna at best.

when it comes down to it, its really simple. I dont play the sharp teeth game, if you want to be a schmuck then obviously I dont add enough value to be respected so I will go away. You can also tell people who are holding there toung becasue they know they cant do something and thoes people are irritating to be around when you are trying to do a difficult job. Respect is one of those funny things. It can be earned, or bestowed. Your fears of hazing are unfounded. I have worked with many GS types when I was assigned to Mount Fuji. Most were stand up guys. Those folks were invited to join us at the club etc. There were a couple of prissy lil thangs. We simply ignored them except for business exclusively. They simply were not worth the time to do as you fear.

How tall are you?

[rppearso]

That is all that I would ask is to be left alone except on buisness matters, so you agree that military members (even enlisted) have enough tact to leave someone alone. As far as going out to the club, I will pass on that unless the club is upscale (or at least quiet) and has nice ambiance. My posts stemed from the fact that someone commented about harrassing a GS employee that was just trying to do his job and I would be pissed to and being that I am ex army guard it was no surprise to me. Why do you care how tall I am?

[pegwinn]

That is all that I would ask is to be left alone except on buisness matters, Don't worry. Most would not bother with you in the way you fear as picking on the defenseless is frowned on.

so you agree that military members (even enlisted) have enough tact to leave someone alone. Oh yes. Even Enlisted Marines (illiterate louts eh?) can learn tact when beaten often enough. Seriously. I'd watch that smug attitude if I were you. That will attract folks who believe it is thier duty to school you.

As far as going out to the club, I will pass on that unless the club is upscale (or at least quiet) and has nice ambiance. My posts stemed from the fact that someone commented about harrassing a GS employee that was just trying to do his job and I would be pissed to and being that I am ex army guard it was no surprise to me. I believe the post in question was mine. So, care to explain exactly how you determined that I harassed him?

Why do you care how tall I am? Once you answer the simple question, all will be revealed.

We have a looooong road Grasshopper. But, in time and with practice, your Kung Fu will improve.

[rppearso]

im 5' 9", how does that answer anything?

[pegwinn]

im 5' 9", how does that answer anything?

Five feet Nine inches translates to 69 inches. In a different thread you stated.....
I think the only reason I dident get a towel party is because im about 220 lbs of pure muscle and had 2 good battle buddys that did not tolerate that crap -- Source (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=192244&postcount=14)

Now, I may be a mere enlisted guy. But I am betting that you were a tad over the height/weight standards.

Some might construe that as proof of bullshit. I am not one of those.

In another post you stated....
I was up to about 33% body fat between basic and OCS and am still working to get it off so I would say I was very unable to adapt to military life, -- Source (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=192555&postcount=107)

That has me wondering, in a totally uneducated enlisted way, how the hell you managed to go from overweight but musclebound to sumo quality bodyfat in between basic and OCS. Son, you would have needed to be on the twinkie diet day on stay on.

Look Grasshopper. Not everyone is cut out to be in the service. But, if you are going to tell outlandish tales you must be prepared to defend em. Every word you wrote may be true. But your manner indicates otherwise. There are simply too many inconsistencies.

Now I am not gonna pull your posts out to slap you with anymore unless you challenge what I write. So, here is an example:

You said that there was no quality control in training. Yet I know from my short time around a few Marines that every training outfit keeps stats right down to your pecker size for every training day. In my limited experience with training I know that I never deliberately washed out anyone. But, if they displayed rank insubordination, well, they were history. Yet you said that you refused orders (along with a couple of buddies) and still graduated. I guess you can thank God that you didn't go to Parris Island. You would still be inventorying sand fleas.

Inconsistencies like that make your combined posts appear a bit, shall we say.... Off? Now, me, I'm just an uneducated (3 college hours) Jarhead. But your grammar, spelling, and organisation of thought doesn't strike me as someone who has graduated high school, earned one degree, and is working on another.

And, the EPA pouge was screaming at one of my Corporals. The knucklehead was shouting at him as if he (the GS dumbass) actually wore a uniform and rated to raise his voice to an NCO. The Corporal was in trouble because some dingleberry forgot to wipe up an oily can residue.

One of my Sergeants came and got me. I walked up to the guy and told him to knock it the fuck off. He turned and started in on me. I offered to kick his ass or he could leave. He sputtered something and I then told him to get the fuck out of my motor pool or be carried out by the two PFC's who were conveniently approaching.

If you feel I was harassing the civil servant, please forgive me. I was a mere enlisted guy (and only a SSgt to boot) and didn't know I was supposed to bow before him.

Fix your posting style. Don't post wild things about the service you cannot substantiate. Do these things for starters and your Kung Fu will grow stronger.

[LiberalNation]

Burned him.......

[82Marine89]

Fucking A Phil :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: That gave me wood.

[MtnBiker]

Wow, I've just seen a true sniper in action. :salute:

[pegwinn]

Thanks folks. I just wish to add that the particular GS was the exception. Over in Fuji we had several GS types who were staff officer levels. All were prior service and only one had a chip on his shoulder. But, we turned him around by including him in all the Staff NCO / Officer functions. Once he figured out that we didn't hold it against him for being a medboarded former Corporal he was alright.

[rppearso]

Five feet Nine inches translates to 69 inches. In a different thread you stated.....

Now, I may be a mere enlisted guy. But I am betting that you were a tad over the height/weight standards.

Some might construe that as proof of bullshit. I am not one of those.

In another post you stated....

That has me wondering, in a totally uneducated enlisted way, how the hell you managed to go from overweight but musclebound to sumo quality bodyfat in between basic and OCS. Son, you would have needed to be on the twinkie diet day on stay on.

Look Grasshopper. Not everyone is cut out to be in the service. But, if you are going to tell outlandish tales you must be prepared to defend em. Every word you wrote may be true. But your manner indicates otherwise. There are simply too many inconsistencies.

Now I am not gonna pull your posts out to slap you with anymore unless you challenge what I write. So, here is an example:

You said that there was no quality control in training. Yet I know from my short time around a few Marines that every training outfit keeps stats right down to your pecker size for every training day. In my limited experience with training I know that I never deliberately washed out anyone. But, if they displayed rank insubordination, well, they were history. Yet you said that you refused orders (along with a couple of buddies) and still graduated. I guess you can thank God that you didn't go to Parris Island. You would still be inventorying sand fleas.

Inconsistencies like that make your combined posts appear a bit, shall we say.... Off? Now, me, I'm just an uneducated (3 college hours) Jarhead. But your grammar, spelling, and organisation of thought doesn't strike me as someone who has graduated high school, earned one degree, and is working on another.

And, the EPA pouge was screaming at one of my Corporals. The knucklehead was shouting at him as if he (the GS dumbass) actually wore a uniform and rated to raise his voice to an NCO. The Corporal was in trouble because some dingleberry forgot to wipe up an oily can residue.

One of my Sergeants came and got me. I walked up to the guy and told him to knock it the fuck off. He turned and started in on me. I offered to kick his ass or he could leave. He sputtered something and I then told him to get the fuck out of my motor pool or be carried out by the two PFC's who were conveniently approaching.

If you feel I was harassing the civil servant, please forgive me. I was a mere enlisted guy (and only a SSgt to boot) and didn't know I was supposed to bow before him.

Fix your posting style. Don't post wild things about the service you cannot substantiate. Do these things for starters and your Kung Fu will grow stronger.

If they keep track of each training day for each recruit I would be greatly interested in my dailys as to how I actually passed, maybe thats the difference between the marines and the army, and what I did was not flagrant insubordination, I would just half ass something (as in not rolling to the point of puking and then moving so slowly I would avoid others puke but never refused to at least pretend like I was attempting to carry out the order, as far as the weight I had to be taped to join and by about middle basic I was still way strong from the power lifting I did in college and had lost about 20 lbs of fat. In between basic and OCS was about a year and it was not quite a twinki diet but that would be a good analogy I am now back to my pre basic weight and trying to regain my strength. Knowing the whole story I would say the GS was way out of line but that type of behavior is more akin to a over zealous NCO so I stand corrected but that does not change my opinion of the military training system as a whole, I seen some really messed up stuff happen to people that dident graduate with us but also were not sent home, I forget what the program is called now I think it was called PTRP where the army abused non hackers and injured people and put them in special platoons that was the most deplorable thing I had ever seen. I know you probably hate me but this is definatly a good debate and even if you are putting me in my place it is fun.

[pegwinn]

If they keep track of each training day for each recruit I would be greatly interested in my dailys as to how I actually passed, maybe thats the difference between the marines and the army, There are lots of differences. But, you have already decided that things like tradition etc. don't mean anything to you.

and what I did was not flagrant insubordination, I would just half ass something (as in not rolling to the point of puking and then moving so slowly I would avoid others puke but never refused to at least pretend like I was attempting to carry out the order, Junior. IF you think that earns you cool points, then you are out of your mind. Go back and read your posts and read this. At 5' 9" you cannot high step enough to get out of the hole you are digging. If you are going to bullshit folks, at least be consistent.


as far as the weight I had to be taped to join and by about middle basic I was still way strong from the power lifting I did in college and had lost about 20 lbs of fat. In between basic and OCS was about a year and it was not quite a twinki diet but that would be a good analogy I am now back to my pre basic weight and trying to regain my strength. Knowing the whole story I would say the GS was way out of line but that type of behavior is more akin to a over zealous NCO so I stand corrected but that does not change my opinion of the military training system as a whole, I seen some really messed up stuff happen to people that dident graduate with us but also were not sent home, I forget what the program is called now I think it was called PTRP where the army abused non hackers and injured people and put them in special platoons that was the most deplorable thing I had ever seen. The Marines call it MRP. From a recruits point of view it looks like something it isn't. The best thing you can do is stay out of discussions where you are forced to bullshit others in a vain attempt to fit in.

I know you probably hate me but this is definatly a good debate and even if you are putting me in my place it is fun. Hate you? Ah No. I pity you. BTW I noticed you picked up a few neg reps. I won't neg rep you ever. But if you act stupid in public you deserve to get slapped in public. Capish?

BS = Bullshit
MS = More Shit
PHD = Piled Higher & Deeper

[rppearso]

Here is the 2008 general pay schedule, I dont know how people even live on any thing short of a GS 12 pay grade.

http://www.fedjobs.com/pay/pay.html

[AFbombloader]

Here is the 2008 general pay schedule, I dont know how people even live on any thing short of a GS 12 pay grade.

http://www.fedjobs.com/pay/pay.html

You are in Alaska right? The cost of living is a lot higher here than in the majority of the US. I think that may be why you think you need more than $50,000 a year in base salary. You can live on a lot less other places.

AF:salute:

[5stringJeff]

Here is the 2008 general pay schedule, I dont know how people even live on any thing short of a GS 12 pay grade.

http://www.fedjobs.com/pay/pay.html

I've supported my family from GS-9, step 1, to my current pay grade of GS-11, step 4. That includes expansion from 1 kid to 3, buying and selling a home, and moving across the country. So it can be done.

[rppearso]

I've supported my family from GS-9, step 1, to my current pay grade of GS-11, step 4. That includes expansion from 1 kid to 3, buying and selling a home, and moving across the country. So it can be done.

You must live in a lower cost of living area because we barely make our bills with no kids, it can probably be done just not very fun. Also if your wife earns as much or more than you that would also help alot.

[5stringJeff]

You must live in a lower cost of living area because we barely make our bills with no kids, it can probably be done just not very fun. Also if your wife earns as much or more than you that would also help alot.

Single income, Seattle area.

[Mr. P]

Here is the 2008 general pay schedule, I dont know how people even live on any thing short of a GS 12 pay grade.

http://www.fedjobs.com/pay/pay.html

What does this have to do with your failure and lack of commitment to a contract you signed? Is it just about money?

[Immanuel]

jd is a hottie...I've seen pix

I concur.

Immie

[rppearso]

What does this have to do with your failure and lack of commitment to a contract you signed? Is it just about money?

This has to do with the GS pay scale, and yes money is a big motivator of course being away from my wife for up to 24 months was the biggest motivating factor, after I joined the guard I saw the writing on the wall regarding deployments which was part of my reason for getting out. I thought the national guard was suppost to be much much different from the regular army (like a local state constitutional milita which it is not, even though people refer to it as such, a true milita would not ever be under control of the federal government). http://www.barefootsworld.net/article2.html

The government has done a good job of convoluding the constitution and decieving alot of people over the last 100 years. It is better for me just to make good money and buy my own plane rather than getting mixed up in the deception and convolution of the federal government and anything the federal government touchs that can negitivly impact my life.

I consider the contract I signed to be bogus because the war in iraq and most importantly the way we are fighting it is not in defense of OUR constitution, we are sworn to defend OUR constitution which can be accomplished through membership of the constitutional milita (ie owning weapons and being ready to defend the homeland.

Some of the founders of this nation were against standing armys as standing armys are contrary to liberty, the UCMJ is in direct violation of constitutionaly protected rights but instead of refering to the constitution we refer instead to court precedence to justify the UCMJ existance. The draft is also unconstitutional as it is forced servituded but again court precedence beats the constitution.

These are just my opinions, you are free to have your own opinions but dont expect your opinions to change my behavior.

[pegwinn]

Your link contradicts itself vis a vis milita v. NG. Read it, completely. if you cannot find it, I will help you out.

Considering the contract you signed to be bogus is hypocritical if you expect to sign a contract as a GS and get paid X number of $$. In other words, If you feel no obligation to honor your end of a contract, why should the .gov honor a gs contract with you?

The UCMJ actually provides more rights to the accused than are quoted by Miranda. Additionally the UCMJ is actually codified within Title 10 USC chapter 47. IOW it is US LAW and is constitutional based on Article 1, Section 8 (http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A1Sec8) which enumerates the specific powers of Congress, to wit:




To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;


RP, you need to take some more college courses. I mean, seriously dude, I graduated HS then went into the service. I have maybe three credit hours of actual off duty college in a remedial science, World History, American History. You should be just mopping up the floor with the likes of me.

[Mr. P]

This has to do with the GS pay scale, and yes money is a big motivator of course being away from my wife for up to 24 months was the biggest motivating factor, after I joined the guard I saw the writing on the wall regarding deployments which was part of my reason for getting out. I thought the national guard was suppost to be much much different from the regular army (like a local state constitutional milita which it is not, even though people refer to it as such, a true milita would not ever be under control of the federal government). http://www.barefootsworld.net/article2.html

The government has done a good job of convoluding the constitution and decieving alot of people over the last 100 years. It is better for me just to make good money and buy my own plane rather than getting mixed up in the deception and convolution of the federal government and anything the federal government touchs that can negitivly impact my life.

I consider the contract I signed to be bogus because the war in iraq and most importantly the way we are fighting it is not in defense of OUR constitution, we are sworn to defend OUR constitution which can be accomplished through membership of the constitutional milita (ie owning weapons and being ready to defend the homeland.

Some of the founders of this nation were against standing armys as standing armys are contrary to liberty, the UCMJ is in direct violation of constitutionaly protected rights but instead of refering to the constitution we refer instead to court precedence to justify the UCMJ existance. The draft is also unconstitutional as it is forced servituded but again court precedence beats the constitution.

These are just my opinions, you are free to have your own opinions but dont expect your opinions to change my behavior.
How long have you been married?

[rppearso]

Your link contradicts itself vis a vis milita v. NG. Read it, completely. if you cannot find it, I will help you out.

Considering the contract you signed to be bogus is hypocritical if you expect to sign a contract as a GS and get paid X number of $$. In other words, If you feel no obligation to honor your end of a contract, why should the .gov honor a gs contract with you?

The UCMJ actually provides more rights to the accused than are quoted by Miranda. Additionally the UCMJ is actually codified within Title 10 USC chapter 47. IOW it is US LAW and is constitutional based on Article 1, Section 8 (http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A1Sec8) which enumerates the specific powers of Congress, to wit:



RP, you need to take some more college courses. I mean, seriously dude, I graduated HS then went into the service. I have maybe three credit hours of actual off duty college in a remedial science, World History, American History. You should be just mopping up the floor with the likes of me.

So what ever happened to the 2 years part of that. Also keep in mind that my education was exclusivly technical in nature but I do enjoy learning more about the truth of our nations constitution and the opinions of thoes who founded this nation to get a better idea of how messed up we have become. I still believe US military training methods cross the line from good training to human rights violations sanctioned by the government, I would be curious to see what "basic training" was like prior to the revolutionary war, I know commissions at that time were based on stature and education and not about getting 70 credit hours in basket weaving and getting hazed by some NCOs.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0505-08.htm

[MtnBiker]

Also keep in mind that my education was exclusivly technical in nature

You should have ponied up a few more bucks for that exclusively technical education, perhaps it would have also covered grammar.

[Mr. P]

This has to do with the GS pay scale, and yes money is a big motivator of course being away from my wife for up to 24 months was the biggest motivating factor, after I joined the guard I saw the writing on the wall regarding deployments which was part of my reason for getting out. I thought the national guard was suppost to be much much different from the regular army (like a local state constitutional milita which it is not, even though people refer to it as such, a true milita would not ever be under control of the federal government). http://www.barefootsworld.net/article2.html

The government has done a good job of convoluding the constitution and decieving alot of people over the last 100 years. It is better for me just to make good money and buy my own plane rather than getting mixed up in the deception and convolution of the federal government and anything the federal government touchs that can negitivly impact my life.

I consider the contract I signed to be bogus because the war in iraq and most importantly the way we are fighting it is not in defense of OUR constitution, we are sworn to defend OUR constitution which can be accomplished through membership of the constitutional milita (ie owning weapons and being ready to defend the homeland.

Some of the founders of this nation were against standing armys as standing armys are contrary to liberty, the UCMJ is in direct violation of constitutionaly protected rights but instead of refering to the constitution we refer instead to court precedence to justify the UCMJ existance. The draft is also unconstitutional as it is forced servituded but again court precedence beats the constitution.

These are just my opinions, you are free to have your own opinions but dont expect your opinions to change my behavior.


How long have you been married?

Hello...

[rppearso]

Why should I give out personal information to people who flame, it seems people just cant help themselves from rude, tactless, flames that show there true character. If you dont like my opinions on military training maybe the military should stop human rights violations.

[Mr. P]

Why should I give out personal information to people who flame, it seems people just cant help themselves from rude, tactless, flames that show there true character. If you dont like my opinions on military training maybe the military should stop human rights violations.

Yer not married are ya? If so how long is no more personal than if you are or aren't.

As far as flaming, Sorry kid, call it whatever you want....I call a spade a spade, deal with it.

[pegwinn]

So what ever happened to the 2 years part of that. Also keep in mind that my education was exclusivly technical in nature but I do enjoy learning more about the truth of our nations constitution and the opinions of thoes who founded this nation to get a better idea of how messed up we have become. I still believe US military training methods cross the line from good training to human rights violations sanctioned by the government, I would be curious to see what "basic training" was like prior to the revolutionary war, I know commissions at that time were based on stature and education and not about getting 70 credit hours in basket weaving and getting hazed by some NCOs.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0505-08.htm

What is the two years part you refer to? Also, keep in mind that I have a kid your age. She, also, has a degree. Her degree is also technical. Yet, she took English, History, etc, etc as a requirement to get her degree. So, having a "purely technical" degree doesn't jive with previous posts where you stated you had a bachelors degree. Finally, IRT "Basic Training" pre-revolution, you will have to do your own research. Commissioning was based on social status and who you knew. If you had enough money, you simply bought your commission.

As a courtesy I will await your proof of the assertion that training is a human rights violation. While it may be your opinion, it should be rationally based in a manner you can source and discuss.

Last thought. You commented that you enjoy finding the truth etc. I bolded it for you above. Be advised that rules are not meant to be interpreted. The Declaration of Independence has no legal power. The federalist papers was nothing more than opinion pieces in the newspaper. And, you must read what it (the Constitution) says, not what you wish it said. As an academic exercise you must, to be fully honest, consider both sides of an argument before forming an opinion. So far it appears that you will accept as gospel whatever article you agree with philosophically. If you like you can post the entire article about universal service and I will Ghin Tzu it for you.


Why should I give out personal information to people who flame, it seems people just cant help themselves from rude, tactless, flames that show there true character. If you dont like my opinions on military training maybe the military should stop human rights violations.

Emphasis added. Remember the advice about bringing the shit without slinging the shit? So, I will issue the challenge here: SOURCE?

EDITED TO ADD: I just remembered the two year rule. You cannot appropriate money for the military (specifically the Army and Navy) for more than two years at a whack. You can appropriate money every year. And we do via the Annual Budget process. Did that answer your question?

[rppearso]

What is the two years part you refer to? Also, keep in mind that I have a kid your age. She, also, has a degree. Her degree is also technical. Yet, she took English, History, etc, etc as a requirement to get her degree. So, having a "purely technical" degree doesn't jive with previous posts where you stated you had a bachelors degree. Finally, IRT "Basic Training" pre-revolution, you will have to do your own research. Commissioning was based on social status and who you knew. If you had enough money, you simply bought your commission.

As a courtesy I will await your proof of the assertion that training is a human rights violation. While it may be your opinion, it should be rationally based in a manner you can source and discuss.

Last thought. You commented that you enjoy finding the truth etc. I bolded it for you above. Be advised that rules are not meant to be interpreted. The Declaration of Independence has no legal power. The federalist papers was nothing more than opinion pieces in the newspaper. And, you must read what it (the Constitution) says, not what you wish it said. As an academic exercise you must, to be fully honest, consider both sides of an argument before forming an opinion. So far it appears that you will accept as gospel whatever article you agree with philosophically. If you like you can post the entire article about universal service and I will Ghin Tzu it for you.



Emphasis added. Remember the advice about bringing the shit without slinging the shit? So, I will issue the challenge here: SOURCE?

EDITED TO ADD: I just remembered the two year rule. You cannot appropriate money for the military (specifically the Army and Navy) for more than two years at a whack. You can appropriate money every year. And we do via the Annual Budget process. Did that answer your question?

Yes that does answer my question and I liked the commissioning process back then opposed to now. As far as human rights violations I will have to get back with you on that.

[AFbombloader]

Yes that does answer my question and I liked the commissioning process back then opposed to now. As far as human rights violations I will have to get back with you on that.

Seriously? Just because you have money or come from influential families you should be incharge of the military? Do you realize who you could be putting in charge? And who you would be taking out of a leadership role? Off the top of my head I can think of a few "Rich" people who would not qualify. While noted Generals like Patton (wealthy Scottish Family) and MacArthur (Father was a General also) had the pedegree, many would not.

And here are a few Generals that you would not have allowed.

Brigadier General Chuck Yeager - born to a farming family and worked his way up through the enlisted ranks. 11.5 official kills (2 time ace) and the first man to fly faster than the speed of sound.

General George C. Marshall - born to a middle class family in PA.

I think I could find more but I have to get ready for work. My point, I guess is that you should not be granted anything because of your family. Especially leading men and women into battle. While ther are many examples of great leaders who came from well to do or distinguished families , many great leaders didn't. I can't see going back to a process where Paris Hilton would be considered for a leadership role in the military based soley on her families stature.

AF:salute:

[pegwinn]

Yes that does answer my question and I liked the commissioning process back then opposed to now. As far as human rights violations I will have to get back with you on that.

I'm glad to hear that you liked the original commissioning process. It gives insight into the type of person you are.

Feel free to come back with that human rights violations thing.

[Mr. P]

Yer not married are ya? If so how long is no more personal than if you are or aren't.

As far as flaming, Sorry kid, call it whatever you want....I call a spade a spade, deal with it.

So, how long have you been married?