John Doe!! Rally the troops! Government WASTE!! Local FD plays Santa

[darin]

Every year Graham Fire and Rescue visits their neighborhoods with Santa. :)

Last night we got our visit.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=849&stc=1&d=1198094111

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=850&stc=1&d=1198094129

This was the first year santa didn't get out and hand out candy canes, though.

Still - I think it's a GREAT Program. I called-out JD in the title of this thread because she's made her opinion abundantly-clear on how the government wastes money giving it's employees holidays off.

[Trigg]

Well at least TM should have no objection since I didn't see anything overtly religious.

I think it's a great idea!

[JohnDoe]

I think it is a wonderful idea also, and your LOCAL tax dollars pays for it, not federal tax dollars....or, tax dollars of the rest of the country, for you to have a good time.

our local/town taxes in massachusetts did the same, and we, the citizens of the town had a say so, and agreed to it.

I'm surprised you don't know the difference between federal taxes and local taxes Darin?

I also believe if my old town in massachusetts had citizens that could not afford their heating bills this year because of oil prices doubling, that my town should NOT put on this song and a dance at Christmas and should use our tax dollars to help the people of my town heat their homes.

Sorry if you can't understand prioritizing when money is limited. :poke:

Merry Christmas Darin,

jd

[darin]

So NOW you differentiate eh? Very convenient way to hide your foolishness.

[Hagbard Celine]

Do they blow the air horn when they cruise through your neighborhood? I'd get mad.

[darin]

naw - just chirps of the siren. They have a 'chase' or 'lead' truck w/ a guy on the PA wishing folk "Happy Holidays" - which sucks...but whatever. :)

[Immanuel]

Every year Graham Fire and Rescue visits their neighborhoods with Santa. :)

This was the first year santa didn't get out and hand out candy canes, though.

Still - I think it's a GREAT Program. I called-out JD in the title of this thread because she's made her opinion abundantly-clear on how the government wastes money giving it's employees holidays off.

Oh My God! What is even worse is that the government is promoting Christmas! This is so unconstitutional! Fire the entire lot of them and let the town burn!!!!

Immie

[Abbey Marie]

Oh My God! What is even worse is that the government is promoting Christmas! This is so unconstitutional! Fire the entire lot of them and let the town burn!!!!

Immie

Not to mention that its Santa, that sexist patriarchal figure. Shame!

[darin]

Oh My God! What is even worse is that the government is promoting Christmas! This is so unconstitutional! Fire the entire lot of them and let the town burn!!!!

Immie

:D FIRE them....hehe...heheh.....Punny. :D

[JohnDoe]

Do they blow the air horn when they cruise through your neighborhood? I'd get mad. in my previous town, they blew the horn so everyone knew they were coming, and they did wish everyone a Merry Christmas over the loud speakers..... ''HO, HO, HO, MERRY CHRISTMAS'' was Santa's chant!

jd

[Immanuel]

I think it is a wonderful idea also, and your LOCAL tax dollars pays for it, not federal tax dollars....or, tax dollars of the rest of the country, for you to have a good time.

our local/town taxes in massachusetts did the same, and we, the citizens of the town had a say so, and agreed to it.

I'm surprised you don't know the difference between federal taxes and local taxes Darin?

I also believe if my old town in massachusetts had citizens that could not afford their heating bills this year because of oil prices doubling, that my town should NOT put on this song and a dance at Christmas and should use our tax dollars to help the people of my town heat their homes.

Sorry if you can't understand prioritizing when money is limited. :poke:

Merry Christmas Darin,

jd


Bull shit!

Since when does that matter? How about displaying a manger scene on city property? That is city and state taxes yet it is "forbidden" by you on the left as a religious promotion. You never differientiated before.

You are so full of it.

Immie

[JohnDoe]

Bull shit!

Since when does that matter? How about displaying a manger scene on city property? That is city and state taxes yet it is "forbidden" by you on the left as a religious promotion. You never differientiated before.

You are so full of it.

Immie

immanuel?

you have no idea what you are talking about, or are just trying to get me to ''react'' and speak to you again? :slap:

Dmp, was egging me on because i disagreed with using federal tax dollars to give all federal employees an EXTRA paid day off at Christmas time, when we are running a huge deficit, and federal employees ALREADY get more vacation time and holiday time and personal time than the average tax payer in America, paid for, with our unified tax dollars.

and i have never complained before regarding using tax dollars for manger scenes etc....because i have no problems doing such either?

and YOU know this by posting with me for four years, so it seems to me, it is you that is full of crud, or just being dishonest again.

Merry Christmas

[darin]

Dmp, was egging me on because i disagreed with using federal tax dollars to give all federal employees an EXTRA paid day off at Christmas time, when we are running a huge deficit, and federal employees ALREADY get more vacation time and holiday time and personal time than the average tax payer in America, paid for, with our unified tax dollars.

You're lying now. It's not 'just' that. It's you bitching almost EVERY TIME somebody brings up Federal Benefits to employees. Time off, Pay, whatever.

I've told you countless times, the federal pay system is not a federal deficit problem or solution. Your relating a Federal Holiday to the Federal Deficit shows you have a very immature understanding of how the budgets work.

You any data to back up your claims about Vacation/holiday/personal time of Fed. employees to the average tax payer? Talking out of your bum again?

The government is not losing ANY money by giving the employees a day off. It's money they would have had to spend ANYWAY. It could be argued, giving the day off SAVES money, because of the decreased use of electricity, fuel, etc. But you'll have none of that, will you?

[Immanuel]

immanuel?

you have no idea what you are talking about, or are just trying to get me to ''react'' and speak to you again? :slap:

Dmp, was egging me on because i disagreed with using federal tax dollars to give all federal employees an EXTRA paid day off at Christmas time, when we are running a huge deficit, and federal employees ALREADY get more vacation time and holiday time and personal time than the average tax payer in America, paid for, with our unified tax dollars.

and i have never complained before regarding using tax dollars for manger scenes etc....because i have no problems doing such either?

and YOU know this by posting with me for four years, so it seems to me, it is you that is full of crud, or just being dishonest again.

Merry Christmas

I know no such thing.

The way I remember it is you have always had problems with any and every display of religion by the government in any and every manner for the entire four years I have known you. It never mattered to you whether it was the display of a manger scene, a cross on the hill in San Francisco, public schooling (prayer in schools) or Bush's "Faith Based Initiative". To deny so seems to me to be extremely dishonest. Just like what you are doing right now. Predictable! I don't think you have ever once defended mangers on public property.

But, I have come to expect your dishonesty. You always back track on things you say, when called on it and use the excuses, "that is not what I meant" or "You know I was just being sarcastic". As the Native Americans would say, "You speak with a forked tongue".

Next you will be telling us you have always supported "The Fair Tax". Or will it be that you don't think that the rich should be unfairly taxed? Or that you think the Estate Tax is unjustified? Social Security is a scam? Or that you are NOT a socialist? Or that you are Pro-life? Well, to be fair, you were at one time Pro-life, then you said you were Pro-choice, who really knows today if you support the life of the baby or the taking of that life? :dunno:

Here is a sample that I realize you will be asking for:

http://www.justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?t=1744&highlight=government%2C+religion


As long as she is not preaching religion in the classroom, what she wears has no bearing....imo.

We can't have those teachers preaching religion now, can we Care? BTW the last I heard public schools were state run, not federal.

How about Gov. Huckabee?

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=9854



i actually liked the guy, until he started ''using'' his religion for the benefit of political gain

The man wishes people "Merry Christmas" but because he is in politics that means he has no right to tell America, Merry Christmas?

I did go back and read a thread in fp.com where you supported Judge Moore.

http://www.fullpolitics.com/viewthread.php?tid=783#pid20348

I really wish I could get back to the discussions that we had in politics.com because that is where I remember it being the hot issue. But unfortunately politics.com is gone.

dmp had every right to confront you on your hypocrisy about the extra day off at Christmas time.



and YOU know this by posting with me for four years

This is another lie. I know no such thing. I have posted with you for four years and what I remember of your posts regarding separation of church and state is that you always denounced anyone in the public arena regardless of whether or not it is federal, state or local saying or doing anything religious at all. How dare you presume to tell me what I know and then call me a liar while doing it? Once again, the almighty Care4all thinks she knows everything, even what other people know. I was going to ask you how you felt about Judge Moore, but then went back to fp.com to find the issue. I was surprised to see that you were actually on my side of that issue. Maybe you are right, maybe it has always been a federal issue and only a federal issue with you, but for the life of me, I cannot once remember you saying any such thing as you said in this thread about you caring whether or not it had anything to do with the fed v. state issue.

And another thing, I don't track your opinions on any issue. Doing so would cause a tremendous headache as you seem to change your mind daily as you did with the abortion issue.

And for God's sake, the last thing in the world I want is to be your friend again.

Immie

[manu1959]

in my previous town, they blew the horn so everyone knew they were coming, and they did wish everyone a Merry Christmas over the loud speakers..... ''HO, HO, HO, MERRY CHRISTMAS'' was Santa's chant!

jd

can't say HO HO HO anymore it offends the beeeeeaaaaatches :laugh2:

[JohnDoe]

You're lying now. It's not 'just' that. It's you bitching almost EVERY TIME somebody brings up Federal Benefits to employees. Time off, Pay, whatever.

No, you are lying. I said in the above post that i was bitching about an extra PAID day off by us taxpayers for the federal employees AND I also mentioned that federal employees get more time off as their benefit than most average Americans. I don't remember EVER bitching about Federal Pay, but i am sure if i delve in to it I could find something to bitch about, being that the rest of the usa is paying your salary through our taxes. :)

I've told you countless times, the federal pay system is not a federal deficit problem or solution. Your relating a Federal Holiday to the Federal Deficit shows you have a very immature understanding of how the budgets work.

YOu are just plain clueless and most certainly have an immature understanding of how the federal budget works Darin. Federal employee pay comes out of our budget of which we are RUNNING A DEFICIT. The larger you grow our government with gvt employees the more comes out of our budget, and our taxes, to pay for it. There is NO other way to put it.

You any data to back up your claims about Vacation/holiday/personal time of Fed. employees to the average tax payer? Talking out of your bum again?

on average, Americans take 10 paid vacation days a year, and that includes all of the gvt employees that take much more than that.... there are many, many, many articles out there that show this... are you saying that gvt employees only get 10 paid vacation days a year on average? I would say that it is a lie, if you are saying this.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/ebs.t05.htm

And small businesses which is where the majority of our American workers work, pay even less vacation time than what the average comes out to.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/ebs.nws.htm

The government is not losing ANY money by giving the employees a day off. It's money they would have had to spend ANYWAY. It could be argued, giving the day off SAVES money, because of the decreased use of electricity, fuel, etc. But you'll have none of that, will you?

Again, you simply do not understand productivity and how it relates to the workplace.... an EXTRA paid day off at the tax payer's expense produces virtually NOTHING other than the minimal amount of a skeleton staff working it, AND those having to work it will get overtime bucks from us tax payers for it.

Look up productivity darin, maybe you can get your head around that...? But maybe not.

jd

[manu1959]

Again, you simply do not understand productivity and how it relates to the workplace.... an EXTRA paid day off at the tax payer's expense produces virtually NOTHING other than the minimal amount of a skeleton staff working it, AND those having to work it will get overtime bucks from us tax payers for it.

Look up productivity darin, maybe you can get your head around that...? But maybe not.

jd

to bitch about productivity of a federal employee is almost laughable in itself.....they don't do anything anyway....having them there one more day is just another day nothing gets done....prolly costs us less when they don't work....not that they were working anyway...

[JohnDoe]

I know no such thing.

The way I remember it is you have always had problems with any and every display of religion by the government in any and every manner for the entire four years I have known you. It never mattered to you whether it was the display of a manger scene, a cross on the hill in San Francisco, public schooling (prayer in schools) or Bush's "Faith Based Initiative". To deny so seems to me to be extremely dishonest. Just like what you are doing right now. Predictable! I don't think you have ever once defended mangers on public property.

But, I have come to expect your dishonesty. You always back track on things you say, when called on it and use the excuses, "that is not what I meant" or "You know I was just being sarcastic". As the Native Americans would say, "You speak with a forked tongue".

Next you will be telling us you have always supported "The Fair Tax". Or will it be that you don't think that the rich should be unfairly taxed? Or that you think the Estate Tax is unjustified? Social Security is a scam? Or that you are NOT a socialist? Or that you are Pro-life? Well, to be fair, you were at one time Pro-life, then you said you were Pro-choice, who really knows today if you support the life of the baby or the taking of that life? :dunno:

Here is a sample that I realize you will be asking for:

http://www.justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?t=1744&highlight=government%2C+religion

LIAR, LIAR, PANTS ON FIRE! :laugh2:

From the same thread that you say i don't support freedom of religion...


If the government is secular and doesn't endorse religion, then any government organisation should restrict religious iconography.

If people are weak enough to use religion, they should do so in their own homes.

It is only dangerous to ban it because the religious are like children and have temper tantrums at the drop of a hat....


Bull crap anyold.... a society that restricts this is a huge danger to all of our freedoms of religion...and freedoms in general....the government does NOT OWN ME OR MY PERSONAL EXPRESSION....

in our country congress CAN NOT LEGISLATE ANY restrictions on religion, especially in the public square....

thank God for the first amendment...!!! ;)

care

We can't have those teachers preaching religion now, can we Care? BTW the last I heard public schools were state run, not federal.

YOU are totally misunderstanding what i was saying to Darin and are twisting and turning so fast that a TOP would be proud of your performance!

My complaint and explanation to Darin was about my tax dollars being spent on federal employee's EXTRA PAID day off, while we are running such huge deficits, ON ANOTHER thread that he and I were arguing on.

How about Gov. Huckabee?

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=9854



The man wishes people "Merry Christmas" but because he is in politics that means he has no right to tell America, Merry Christmas?

I NEVER said he did not have a right to wish everyone a Merry Christmas, liar. I said what you posted above, and i personally believe that he is USING religion for POLITICAL gain and that does NOT sit well with me.

I did go back and read a thread in fp.com where you supported Judge Moore.

http://www.fullpolitics.com/viewthread.php?tid=783#pid20348


Originally posted by Care4all
Because Congress is not suppose to get involved at all in religion...and we have that freedom....

and if anyone would like a statue of the ten commandments on public owned property then Congress can not get involved...

and to say that US Congress is writing a law for the statue to be there, THAT IS NOT TRUE whatsoever! Maintanence "procedures" may get it cleaned but I can assure you that the us congress did not have to write a law for it! I can tell you once thing for certain and that is that....they can NOT WRITE A LAW TO REMOVE IT is what the spirit of the first amendment means.....

Overwhelmingly the community and the entire state of alabama residents felt fine with the statue of the 10 commandments there at the Alabama courthouse, I do not believe the Federal government had the right to even rule in the case, according to the constitution.

I believe this amendments were protections for us to be able to express ourselves and our concerns by restricting the us congress from getting involved in this stuff....

and it implies that it is speeking regarding the public arena for these freedoms of speech, and the press and YES, religion and an establishment of religion is suppose to be one of those freedoms in the public place that is suppose to be protected.

I think some people act as though this amendment was made to restrict an establishment of religion and I believe is was quite the opposite.

And YES, I did support Judge Moore with what I wrote above....

I really wish I could get back to the discussions that we had in politics.com because that is where I remember it being the hot issue. But unfortunately politics.com is gone.

Yeah, great excuse, just to cover your lies. I haven't changed in years on this subject and Jpp and FP go back that far, it should be good enough to show where I have consistently stood.

dmp had every right to confront you on your hypocrisy about the extra day off at Christmas time.

What was hypocritical about it? My comment had to do with tax dollars, FEDERAL TAX DOLLARS being wasted, NOT local tax dollars and had NOTHING to do with a religious statement, but to do with federally running a deficit and having to be prudent with our federal revenues.


This is another lie. I know no such thing. I have posted with you for four years and what I remember of your posts regarding separation of church and state is that you always denounced anyone in the public arena regardless of whether or not it is federal, state or local saying or doing anything religious at all. How dare you presume to tell me what I know and then call me a liar while doing it? Once again, the almighty Care4all thinks she knows everything, even what other people know. I was going to ask you how you felt about Judge Moore, but then went back to fp.com to find the issue. I was surprised to see that you were actually on my side of that issue. Maybe you are right, maybe it has always been a federal issue and only a federal issue with you, but for the life of me, I cannot once remember you saying any such thing as you said in this thread about you caring whether or not it had anything to do with the fed v. state issue.

AGAIN, my issue with Dmp has to do with another thread Darin and I were arguing on regarding Federal spending in a time of deficits NOT RELIGION or religious statements made by a community.


And another thing, I don't track your opinions on any issue. Doing so would cause a tremendous headache as you seem to change your mind daily as you did with the abortion issue.

And for God's sake, the last thing in the world I want is to be your friend again.


Immie

Oh, I can understand that, especially when I call out your LIES.... you hate being called a Liar more than anything in the whole wide world, THAT I know....hmmmm, let's see.... how many times did I call you a liar in this thread?

Enough to get you REALLY PISSED, I hope, I hope, I hope! :laugh2::laugh2:

[JohnDoe]

to bitch about productivity of a federal employee is almost laughable in itself.....they don't do anything anyway....having them there one more day is just another day nothing gets done....prolly costs us less when they don't work....not that they were working anyway...


:lol::laugh2::lol:

hahahahaha! Though I do disagree with you in part. My Father was a Military Service man for 22 years and then a Civil Service man for another 20 years, and I believe he and those around him, worked very hard and were most certainly productive.

I do think there are many non-productive Federal employees too though.

jd

[JohnDoe]

darin,

Average Number of Vacation Days Around the World Per Year

(not all are paid)

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922052.html


Italy 42 days
France 37 days
Germany 35 days
Brazil 34 days
United Kingdom 28 days
Canada 26 days
Korea 25 days
Japan 25 days
U.S. 13 days

[manu1959]

:lol::laugh2::lol:

hahahahaha! Though I do disagree with you in part. My Father was a Military Service man for 22 years and then a Civil Service man for another 20 years, and I believe he and those around him, worked very hard and were most certainly productive.

I do think there are many non-productive Federal employees too though.

jd

i don't lump military into my dig on federal employees....

however, i bet you could fire every other federal employee and we would be just fine.....

[glockmail]

You're lying now. .... Talking out of your bum again?


That's fucked up.

[Dilloduck]

i don't lump military into my dig on federal employees....

however, i bet you could fire every other federal employee and we would be just fine.....

How about half of all govt employees --period !!!

[manu1959]

How about half of all govt employees --period !!!

you know when times are bad i have seen companies do that......pitty our government is more of a half way house for the incompetent

[Dilloduck]

you know when times are bad i have seen companies do that......pitty our government is more of a half way house for the incompetent

hell--if they would pick veggies we would at least have ONE problem solved.

[manu1959]

hell--if they would pick veggies we would at least have ONE problem solved.

hey there is an idea.....send the into the fields to pick lettuce......they can do the jobs americans won't do.....

[Yurt]

can't say HO HO HO anymore it offends the beeeeeaaaaatches :laugh2:

don imus said it -- it must be racist