Men are Superior to Women: Understanding Islam

[Yurt]

Since some here seem keen on understanding Islam, but then ignoring evidence. I thought it would be a good idea to educate us on what it really means to "understand" Islam.

I will quote soley from the Quran and Hadiths which have equal weight and authority in Islam. I don't want to hear about "translations" unless you can outright prove the translated surah or chapter is completely false. No matter the language, thought, for the most part, is capable of translation.

Men have power/advantage over women and can beat them if they disobey
Surah 4 (the women)

34: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allâh has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allâh and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allâh orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill*conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allâh is Ever Most High, Most Great.

Surah 2 (the cow)

228: but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

More women in hell
Bukari Hadith (most respected english version)

Volume 4, Book 54, Number 464:
Narrated 'Imran bin Husain:

The Prophet said, "I looked at Paradise and found poor people forming the majority of its inhabitants; and I looked at Hell and saw that the majority of its inhabitants were women."

Women do not have equal witness authority

Surah 2
282: get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her.

[Yurt]

Wives are chattel

Surah 2
223: Your wives are a tilth for you, so go to your tilth (have sexual relations with your wives in any manner as long as it is in the vagina and not in the anus), when or how you will, and send (good deeds, or ask Allâh to bestow upon you pious offspring) before you for your ownselves. And fear Allâh, and know that you are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give good tidings to the believers (O Muhammad SAW).

[Gaffer]

Keep em coming Yurt. Good job. Little miss "understanding islam" needs to read these and more. Liberal women and feminists should be outraged over islam.

[glockmail]

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/women/long.html

[gabosaurus]

So what you are telling me is that non-Muslim men never beat their wives.
There are a lot of countries and cultures where men are still considered superior to women. Try pretty much every Hindu country. Not to mention China, Japan and most of Latin America.
There are parts of the Bible where men are cast as superior to women as well.

FAILED

[glockmail]

So what you are telling me is that non-Muslim men never beat their wives.
There are a lot of countries and cultures where men are still considered superior to women. Try pretty much every Hindu country. Not to mention China, Japan and most of Latin America.
There are parts of the Bible where men are cast as superior to women as well.

FAILED

Perhaps you can point out where Jesus said that women are inferior to men.

[Trigg]

So what you are telling me is that non-Muslim men never beat their wives.
There are a lot of countries and cultures where men are still considered superior to women.

The bible does not encourage men to beat their wives.

In what other country, besides Muslim, is the law clearly on the side of the man. To the point that a woman's word is no good against a man's.

In what other country, besides Muslim, would a woman face a beating for being raped?

As a femanist I'm shocked that you could defind these actions.

[gabosaurus]

Let's talk about China, where most couple are restricted to one child. Female children are often abandoned or killed. Male children are much more prized and sought after.

In many Hindu areas, women are brokered off in arranged marriages. Women who seek their mates are often shunned. In some cases, they are subject to "honor killings." Prosecutions are rare.

In Italy and France, the favored defense in rape cases is "passion." Women "tempt" the man by the way they dress or act. Convictions are extremely rare.

[glockmail]

Let's talk about China, where most couple are restricted to one child. Female children are often abandoned or killed. Male children are much more prized and sought after.

In many Hindu areas, women are brokered off in arranged marriages. Women who seek their mates are often shunned. In some cases, they are subject to "honor killings." Prosecutions are rare.

In Italy and France, the favored defense in rape cases is "passion." Women "tempt" the man by the way they dress or act. Convictions are extremely rare. Nice try, but lets keep the subject on the religion that is trying to take over the world, as well as your accusation about Christianity.
:slap:

[manu1959]

Let's talk about China, where most couple are restricted to one child. Female children are often abandoned or killed. Male children are much more prized and sought after.

In many Hindu areas, women are brokered off in arranged marriages. Women who seek their mates are often shunned. In some cases, they are subject to "honor killings." Prosecutions are rare.

In Italy and France, the favored defense in rape cases is "passion." Women "tempt" the man by the way they dress or act. Convictions are extremely rare.

are you trying to make christian ideals towards women look good or bad with these examples....or are you using these to justify muslim actions....

[gabosaurus]

All these are religious and cultural viewpoints. Never try to condemn things that you don't understand.

[REDWHITEBLUE2]

Wives are chattel

Surah 2
223: Your wives are a tilth for you, so go to your tilth (have sexual relations with your wives in any manner as long as it is in the vagina and not in the anus), when or how you will,Muslim men only have anal sex with young males SICK FUCKS

[Kathianne]

All these are religious and cultural viewpoints. Never try to condemn things that you don't understand.

No Gabby, it's the Koran. Which is meant to be taken word-for-word.

http://cgi.stanford.edu/group/wais/cgi-bin/index.php?p=1257


Islam not closer to Christianity than Judaism

Alice Whealey writes: Despite the fact that the Koran expresses respect for an Islamic version of Jesus and Mary, one can hardly conclude from this that Christianity is closer to Islam than Judaism. The Jesus of the Koran, after all, is not even crucified (4:157-8), in direct contradiction to the New Testament. Unlike most Muslims, who are committed to a literal interpretation of the Koran, most Jews accept such historically plausible information from the New Testament as that Jesus died by crucifixion, even as they reject New Testament theological interpretation about Jesus, such as his being son of God, etc. Also, Chrisitianity and Judaism value many of the same texts: not only is the Hebrew Bible (aka Old Testament) part of Christian scripture, but the Old Testament Apocrypha texts, (preserved by the various Catholic churches rather than by Jews), are now recognized as culturally important to Jews for an understanding their own history in the Hellenistic and Roman
periods. In contrast, Muslims generally have rejected both the New and Old Testaments as falsified by Christians and Jews because they contradict a literal reading of the Koran. Moving from the theological to the political level, in most, if not all, periods of history, Christians have faced much more severe political and military threats from Muslims than from Jews, which raises the question why Christians have so often been more hostile towards Jews than towards Muslims....

[gabosaurus]

Muslim men only have anal sex with young males SICK FUCKS

The same can be said for Catholic priests.

[Kathianne]

The same can be said for Catholic priests.

How does the Catholic Priest problem have to do with Islam putting down women? From you response, I'm assuming you were speaking of pedophiles? Are you accusing Islamics of all being pedophiles? All Catholic priests? Which are tenets of which religion?

[gabosaurus]

It's a matter of interpretation.
My response was based on RWB's post. There is much more pedophilia present in Christian religions than in other faiths.

I never try to interpret the Koran because I am not qualified to do so. Neither are you.

[manu1959]

It's a matter of interpretation.
My response was based on RWB's post. There is much more pedophilia present in Christian religions than in other faiths.

I never try to interpret the Koran because I am not qualified to do so. Neither are you.

yes because all the other countries of the world are so honest in their reporting of things like pedophilia .....

[Kathianne]

It's a matter of interpretation.
My response was based on RWB's post. There is much more pedophilia present in Christian religions than in other faiths.

I never try to interpret the Koran because I am not qualified to do so. Neither are you.

Got a link to the bold? No one is supposed to 'interpret' the word of Allah, which Mohammed his messenger transcribed.

[MtnBiker]

I never try to interpret the Koran because I am not qualified to do so. Neither are you.


Are illiterate Arabs qualified to interpret the Koran?

[Kathianne]

Are illiterate Arabs qualified to interpret the Koran?

Just make use of whatever their imams or mullahs, (who are rarely educated) tell them the Koran says. In any case, not interpreted.

[actsnoblemartin]

I think men are superior to women because we are physically, emotionally, and mentally stronger then women.

we cant just cry at the slightest hurt, we have to take care of women, cause women cant take care of themselves without men, even though they pretend they can.


Since some here seem keen on understanding Islam, but then ignoring evidence. I thought it would be a good idea to educate us on what it really means to "understand" Islam.

I will quote soley from the Quran and Hadiths which have equal weight and authority in Islam. I don't want to hear about "translations" unless you can outright prove the translated surah or chapter is completely false. No matter the language, thought, for the most part, is capable of translation.

Men have power/advantage over women and can beat them if they disobey
Surah 4 (the women)

34: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allâh has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allâh and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allâh orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill*conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allâh is Ever Most High, Most Great.

Surah 2 (the cow)

228: but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

More women in hell
Bukari Hadith (most respected english version)

Volume 4, Book 54, Number 464:
Narrated 'Imran bin Husain:

The Prophet said, "I looked at Paradise and found poor people forming the majority of its inhabitants; and I looked at Hell and saw that the majority of its inhabitants were women."

Women do not have equal witness authority

Surah 2
282: get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her.

[MtnBiker]

I think men are superior to women because we are physically, emotionally, and mentally stronger then women.

we cant just cry at the slightest hurt, we have to take care of women, cause women cant take care of themselves without men, even though they pretend they can.

Are you serious?

[manu1959]

I think men are superior to women because we are physically, emotionally, and mentally stronger then women.

we cant just cry at the slightest hurt, we have to take care of women, cause women cant take care of themselves without men, even though they pretend they can.

i think you are wrong.....as a married man with two kids.....i dare you to be a single dad for a week and work an 8 hour day while your spouse jaunts off to work then comes home expecting food, a clean house and clean clothes..... you will be in a ball on the ground crying by wednesday....

[actsnoblemartin]

Youre dam right im serious :cool:




Are you serious?

[actsnoblemartin]

Their are plenty of single fathers, who dont ask for praise over it, but women want a parade for having a kid, #1 they chose too

#2, its their fault for picking a dousche bag as a dad

by the way, how can the dad you mentioned be single, if he has a spouse?

I wont have kids, by choice. I dont need your approval, or sympathy.

and a stay at home dad is just as good as a stay at home mom

No offensive, but your argument is weak. women arent special for having what nature nags them to have.

Please:laugh2:


i think you are wrong.....as a married man with two kids.....i dare you to be a single dadfor a week and work an 8 hour day while your spouse jaunts off to work then comes home expecting food, a clean house and clean clothes..... you will be in a ball on the ground crying by wednesday....

[manu1959]

i would love for you to meet my wife and have you say this to her face.......

she would simply kick the shit out you.....


Their are plenty of single fathers, who dont ask for praise over it, but women want a parade for having a kid, #1 they chose too

#2, its their fault for picking a dousche bag as a dad

by the way, how can the dad you mentioned be single, if he has a spouse?

I wont have kids, by choice. I dont need your approval, or sympathy.

and a stay at home dad is just as good as a stay at home mom

No offensive, but your argument is weak. women arent special for having what nature nags them to have.

Please:laugh2:

[Yurt]

So what you are telling me is that non-Muslim men never beat their wives.
There are a lot of countries and cultures where men are still considered superior to women. Try pretty much every Hindu country. Not to mention China, Japan and most of Latin America.
There are parts of the Bible where men are cast as superior to women as well.

FAILED

um, we are talking about muslims only and "understanding" them. if you want to talk about other cultures, start your own thread. thank you for admitting that I am right though about understanding muslims, given, you had nothing of value to say except posting a massive logical fallacy...


Red Herring
Alias:
Ignoratio Elenchi ("ignorance of refutation", Latin)

Irrelevant Thesis
Type: Informal Fallacy

Exposition:
This is the most general fallacy of irrelevance. Any argument in which the premisses are logically unrelated to the conclusion commits this fallacy.

History:
This fallacy is often known by the Latin name "Ignoratio Elenchi", which translates as "ignorance of refutation". The ignorance involved is either ignorance of the conclusion to be refuted—even deliberately ignoring it—or ignorance of what constitutes a refutation, so that the attempt misses the mark. This explanation goes back to Aristotle's On Sophistical Refutations, the focus of which is fallacious refutations in debate. As with all of Aristotle's original fallacies, its application has widened to all arguments.

way to go gabs :laugh2:

[Kathianne]

i would love for you to meet my wife and have you say this to her face.......

she would simply kick the shit out you.....

Seriously Manu, she wouldn't. No more than I won't bother responding. At this point one must admit, some are not capable of understanding. To you wife's acclaim, she left you alone enough, to love your kids and realize they aren't as easy as they seem. FYI neither is the laundry for 4 or more. ;)

[Yurt]

another hit and run gabs :lol: if you like, i can extrapolate what a red herring is... :)

[Yurt]

http://musingsandmutterings.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/red_herring2.gif

[actsnoblemartin]

such a cute fish


http://musingsandmutterings.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/red_herring2.gif

[Yurt]

such a cute fish

gabby's favorite :)

[actsnoblemartin]

oh yeah, its not the only thing she is full of :laugh2:


gabby's favorite :)

[nevadamedic]

oh yeah, its not the only thing she is full of :laugh2:

What else would she be full of? :laugh2:

[actsnoblemartin]

shit

:lol:


What else would she be full of? :laugh2:

[nevadamedic]

shit

:lol:

Potty Mouth!

[OCA]

LMFAO! These are the type of threads you get when we allow these types of people to post unsupervised.

There should at least be a minimum amount of intelligence required to be a member here, Raymond would not fit that requirement.

[Yurt]

Dearest Gabby:

As I am leaving for the holidays and won't be around as much, I wanted to give you your christmas gift early.


http://www.runningonline.com/zine/companies/peakrun/photo2.jpe


Hope it inspires you....Merry christmas :D

[Yurt]

how are the running shoes gabs?

[Yurt]

It's the new year gabby, why don't you turn a leaf and not run from threads .... :)

[canavar]

Women allowed to strike back
Turkish authority explains right to self-defense

Women, who are beaten by their man, are allowed to beat back in opinion of the Turkish office for religion (Diyanet). Women have a right to self-defense, explained the authority according to a newspaper report of Monday.

"if she is beaten, she is allowed to beat back to protect herself", the liberal daily paper "Radikal" quoted a representative of the office for religion. Paralell the woman should proceed against her man in legal way.

No right to beating
Anyway the man is not right according to the rules of Islam to beat his wife. Also the prophet Mohammed finally did not strike its wives. According to survey every third woman in Turkey is under force in her family.

The Turkish office for religion, which controlls all 80'000 mosques in Turkey, turns for years against misogynic interpretations of Islamic regulations. Among other things the authority started own campaigns against honour crimes and in favor a better education for girls.
http://de.babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nzz.ch%2Fnachrichten%2Fpano rama%2Ffrauen_tuerkei_gewalt_1.661129.html&lp=de_en&btnTrUrl=%C3%9Cbersetzen
http://www.nzz.ch/nachrichten/panorama/frauen_tuerkei_gewalt_1.661129.html

[Yurt]

Women allowed to strike back
Turkish authority explains right to self-defense

Women, who are beaten by their man, are allowed to beat back in opinion of the Turkish office for religion (Diyanet). Women have a right to self-defense, explained the authority according to a newspaper report of Monday.

"if she is beaten, she is allowed to beat back to protect herself", the liberal daily paper "Radikal" quoted a representative of the office for religion. Paralell the woman should proceed against her man in legal way.

No right to beating
Anyway the man is not right according to the rules of Islam to beat his wife. Also the prophet Mohammed finally did not strike its wives. According to survey every third woman in Turkey is under force in her family.

The Turkish office for religion, which controlls all 80'000 mosques in Turkey, turns for years against misogynic interpretations of Islamic regulations. Among other things the authority started own campaigns against honour crimes and in favor a better education for girls.
http://de.babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nzz.ch%2Fnachrichten%2Fpano rama%2Ffrauen_tuerkei_gewalt_1.661129.html&lp=de_en&btnTrUrl=%C3%9Cbersetzen
http://www.nzz.ch/nachrichten/panorama/frauen_tuerkei_gewalt_1.661129.html

did you read the thread?

1. who cares what the secular gov of turkey declares with regards to islam

2. from the profit's own mouth:

Surah 4 (the women)

34: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allâh has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allâh and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allâh orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill*conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allâh is Ever Most High, Most Great.


are you saying the profit lied? or "allah"

[manu1959]

did you read the thread?

1. who cares what the secular gov of turkey declares with regards to islam

2. from the profit's own mouth:

Surah 4 (the women)

34: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allâh has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allâh and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allâh orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill*conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allâh is Ever Most High, Most Great.


are you saying the profit lied? or "allah"


ok now i am confused.....is this suposed to make me hate or join islam.....look at me asking advice from a guy that pimps his wife out for free sushi....:poke:

[Yurt]

ok now i am confused.....is this suposed to make me hate or join islam.....look at me asking advice from a guy that pimps his wife out for free sushi....:poke:

it was funny only in that thread...context :poke:

[manu1959]

it was funny only in that thread...context :poke:

it was funny in my head and that is all that matters....

[Yurt]

it was funny in my head and that is all that matters....

does one hand clapping make noise?

[manu1959]

does one hand clapping make noise?

yes:wank2:

[Yurt]

yes:wank2:

dammit, foiled again

[manu1959]

dammit, foiled again

soon you will be ready weedhopper...do not dispair....

[JackDaniels]

http://www.menarebetterthanwomen.com/

:)

[gabosaurus]

Muslims have obviously not gotten the memo that the reverse is true. :)

[Yurt]

Muslims have obviously not gotten the memo that the reverse is true. :)

so you agree with my thread. about time you admit it :clap:

[Yurt]

soon you will be ready weedhopper...do not dispair....

when did i get demoted to weedhopper, i am grasshopper rank master

[manu1959]

when did i get demoted to weedhopper, i am grasshopper rank master

so let it be written so let it be done.....

[gabosaurus]

It's the new year gabby, why don't you turn a leaf and not run from threads .... :)

Some of us have to go to class. It's called "education." Perhaps you have heard of it.
I also have to maintain a marriage. Perhaps you are familiar with the concept. Maybe not.

[Yurt]

Some of us have to go to class. It's called "education." Perhaps you have heard of it.
I also have to maintain a marriage. Perhaps you are familiar with the concept. Maybe not.

over 45 days ago gabs.... you probably have over 300 posts since then

nice try :poke:

enjoy the run

[Yurt]

so let it be written so let it be done.....

hai

[actsnoblemartin]

American woman, by and large are preety worthless.

I stand by my beliefs, and while I respect the right of others to disagree, anyone who wants to take cheap or personal insults at me, can kiss my ass :slap:

[waterrescuedude2000]

Some of us have to go to class. It's called "education." Perhaps you have heard of it.
I also have to maintain a marriage. Perhaps you are familiar with the concept. Maybe not.

what kind of idiot married a whining liberal????? Liberals have heard of Education?? How to be a liberal and destroy the world???

[actsnoblemartin]

Unlike muslim men, i dont believe in honor killings , rape, beatings,

I simply believe, I shouldnt have to take crap from a woman, and that american woman by and large today, dress and act like whores, mainly those under 35.

Make up is essentially cheating as well, trying to hide flaws, yuck :poke:

[actsnoblemartin]

so much tolerance, if i dont agree with you im stupid, racist, ignorant, and every other name you can think of


Some of us have to go to class. It's called "education." Perhaps you have heard of it.
I also have to maintain a marriage. Perhaps you are familiar with the concept. Maybe not.

[gabosaurus]

American woman, by and large are preety worthless.

I stand by my beliefs, and while I respect the right of others to disagree, anyone who wants to take cheap or personal insults at me, can kiss my ass :slap:

Obviously, women think you are pretty worthless as well. Hence your lack of such.

And if you want someone to kiss your ass, it will have to be a man. Since you believe us women are "preety worthless."
Not that it isn't usually that way...

[Yurt]

Obviously, women think you are pretty worthless as well. Hence your lack of such.

And if you want someone to kiss your ass, it will have to be a man. Since you believe us women are "preety worthless."
Not that it isn't usually that way...

that women are worthless?


ah, the english language


could be women that run from posts and challenges are worthless, who knows, 45 days or more

ah, you wouldn't know anything about running from something that long would ya gabs

[Jeff32]

No one sets on a throne higher than anybody in God's eyes and in many.

[actsnoblemartin]

There are not a percentage of american women, who are bad women?

Oh im sorry, i didnt kiss the ass of females for being so wonderful and perfect all the time.

:laugh2:


Obviously, women think you are pretty worthless as well. Hence your lack of such.

And if you want someone to kiss your ass, it will have to be a man. Since you believe us women are "preety worthless."
Not that it isn't usually that way...

[Kathianne]

There are not a percentage of american women, who are bad women?

Oh im sorry, i didnt kiss the ass of females for being so wonderful and perfect all the time.

:laugh2:

Martin, seems in general your opinion of women is pretty negative. Perhaps some farm girl, with no opinions, no make up and a virgin might make the cut. You live where?

I'm not slamming you, just an observation.

[actsnoblemartin]

Your observation is correct, however... I am trying to change my view. I will be installing a porn filter very soon, and that will be a good start.

Thank you for being a true friend, and having the courage to, while NOT being cruel, being honest with me, that takes courage.

I :salute: you


Martin, seems in general your opinion of women is pretty negative. Perhaps some farm girl, with no opinions, no make up and a virgin might make the cut. You live where?

I'm not slamming you, just an observation.