SF Considers a Tax on Sugary Drinks

[Pale Rider]

SF Considers a Tax on Sugary Drinks


SAN FRANCISCO (KCBS) -- For years, the idea of taxing soda to beat back obesity has been tossed around in medical circles. But now, San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom is proposing a tax on beverages high in fructose corn syrup.
Newsom says obesity accounts for tens of millions of dollars in city health care costs. He cites a recent San Francisco Health Department survey that found nearly a quarter of the city's 5th, 7th and 9th graders were overweight and that high sugar drinks make up a tenth of a kid's daily calorie count.


Link to article... (http://www.kcbs.com/SF-Considers-a-Tax-on-Caffeine/1348719)

[Pale Rider]

Just another example of, "if the people aren't doing what you want, control them by communistic government actions enacted by your liberal democratic party."

[typomaniac]

SF Considers a Tax on Sugary Drinks


SAN FRANCISCO (KCBS) -- For years, the idea of taxing soda to beat back obesity has been tossed around in medical circles. But now, San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom is proposing a tax on beverages high in fructose corn syrup.
Newsom says obesity accounts for tens of millions of dollars in city health care costs. He cites a recent San Francisco Health Department survey that found nearly a quarter of the city's 5th, 7th and 9th graders were overweight and that high sugar drinks make up a tenth of a kid's daily calorie count.


Link to article... (http://www.kcbs.com/SF-Considers-a-Tax-on-Caffeine/1348719)
Most states already subject sodas to a sales tax. So what?

[manu1959]

Most states already subject sodas to a sales tax. So what?

they are already taxed...this is an increase to that tax which other drinks would not be subject to.....

they did the same thing to cigs....

they try to modify behaviour through taxes.....

[stephanie]

WHAT? dumping on smokers wasn't enough for them....
Time to move on to BIGGER AND BETTER THINGS....:dance:

Enjoy..:cheers2:

[manu1959]

WHAT? dumping on smokers wasn't enough for them....
Time to move on to BIGGER AND BETTER THINGS....:dance:

Enjoy..:cheers2:

next is transfats and fast food in general........

[Pale Rider]

Most states already subject sodas to a sales tax. So what?

Didn't know that... but, the libs want to control behavior through taxes, and you got no problem with that?

[Pale Rider]

next is transfats and fast food in general........

What's that old democrap motto.... "never heard of a tax we didn't like."

[typomaniac]

Didn't know that... but, the libs want to control behavior through taxes, and you got no problem with that?

They can't control taxes in a vacuum. People who really want sugary sodas aren't likely to change their habits for a 2 or 3 cent difference in price. There's still a market economy.

[manu1959]

They can't control taxes in a vacuum. People who really want sugary sodas aren't likely to change their habits for a 2 or 3 cent difference in price. There's still a market economy.

it won't be 2-3 cents....and it will hurt the poor the most.....or people will just buy sodas in another city....

[stephanie]

Oh but..they're not called TAXES anymore...they're called "fees"..

and the good little people just sit back and let their GOVERMENT take care of them, no matter how much they keep TAXING them....

It's pretty amazing to watch..

But.... San Francisco..IS A PROGRESSIVE CITY..:laugh2:

[typomaniac]

it won't be 2-3 cents....and it will hurt the poor the most.....or people will just buy sodas in another city....

The poor don't need soda to survive (aside from which, water is free). Plus, not everyone will spend the time and gasoline to go to another city: they'd rather just pay the tax.

[Pale Rider]

They can't control taxes in a vacuum. People who really want sugary sodas aren't likely to change their habits for a 2 or 3 cent difference in price. There's still a market economy.

Two or three cents... aaahh... correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's going to be substantially more than that. But even so, it's the principle I'm talking about.

Again, you have no problem with dems trying to alter behavior through taxation?

[Yurt]

They can't control taxes in a vacuum. People who really want sugary sodas aren't likely to change their habits for a 2 or 3 cent difference in price. There's still a market economy.

That is irrelevent to the tax argument. It is the very fact that dums want to tax something in order to allegedly fight obesity. Sugary drinks are not the sole cause of obesity and in fact from a health wise stand point, even you cut out all sugar drinks, people can still get overweight. This is just another example of big brother telling you what you should do with your life and money.

[Hagbard Celine]

Two or three cents... aaahh... correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's going to be substantially more than that. But even so, it's the principle I'm talking about.

Again, you have no problem with dems trying to alter behavior through taxation?

How do you suggest they curb obesity in their cities?

[manu1959]

The poor don't need soda to survive (aside from which, water is free). Plus, not everyone will spend the time and gasoline to go to another city: they'd rather just pay the tax.

water isn't free.....

[Yurt]

The poor don't need soda to survive (aside from which, water is free). Plus, not everyone will spend the time and gasoline to go to another city: they'd rather just pay the tax.

so you support taxes simply because people will pay them? you support taxing stuff that is not necessary? why?

[Yurt]

How do you suggest they curb obesity in their cities?

i guarantee a tax on coke aint gonna hag

[manu1959]

How do you suggest they curb obesity in their cities?

how about you just tax fat people more....say $100 / pound for every pound you are over the BMI.....

[Hagbard Celine]

how about you just tax fat people more....say $100 / pound for every pound you are over the BMI.....

Maybe I will tax fat people more for their girth. Hmph.

[Yurt]

Maybe I will tax fat people more for their girth. Hmph.

that isn't technically a way to tell how "fat" you are

[Hagbard Celine]

i guarantee a tax on coke aint gonna hag

There is no solution. Fatty food is cheap and easy. Eating healthy requires eating leaves and "fixing" meals. It's a pain in the ass. Nobody will do it until the apocalypse when all the McDonald's get blown up.

[Yurt]

There is no solution. Fatty food is cheap and easy. Eating healthy requires eating leaves and "fixing" meals. It's a pain in the ass. Nobody will do it until the apocalypse when all the McDonald's get blown up.

ok, then you can't support the tax and you must admit the tax is fraudulent attempt by the dums to simply take more of your money.

[manu1959]

Maybe I will tax fat people more for their girth. Hmph.

ok how about fit people get a tax break.....we get a break on health insurance and impose less of a strain on the health care system......

if you want to alter behaviour you need to either offer a deterant or an incentive.....

taxing soda will not change anything....

[Pale Rider]

How do you suggest they curb obesity in their cities?

Damn good question. The answer can be complicated, but if it was up to me, I'd start with a campaign to get people exercising. I would NOT tax POP! That is just another IDIOTIC LIBERAL IDEA. One, THEY GET TO ADD ANOTHER TAX, AND DEMS LOVE TAXES, and two, it won't make a damn bit of difference.

[Hagbard Celine]

ok, then you can't support the tax and you must admit the tax is fraudulent attempt by the dums to simply take more of your money.

Hey atleast they're trying something. If Republicans had made the bill they'd have declared war on fat and invaded Poland.:dance:

[Pale Rider]

how about you just tax fat people more....say $100 / pound for every pound you are over the BMI.....

Holy shit... you better hope nobody from San Franqueerco city council is reading this thread... :laugh:

[Yurt]

Hey atleast they're trying something. If Republicans had made the bill they'd have declared war on fat and invaded Poland.:dance:

i wouldn't call that an "honest" try. we can start with better school lunches for kids. and by supporting local farmers markets. taxing something is not the answer, especially when you know it won't work.

[manu1959]

Holy shit... you better hope nobody from San Franqueerco city council is reading this thread... :laugh:

actually i was meeting with some of them ... and made this joke ....

[Pale Rider]

actually i was meeting with some of them ... and made this joke ....

You're not serious... :eek:

[manu1959]

You're not serious... :eek:

i am .....

[Pale Rider]

i am .....

And what capacity were you meeting them in?

[April15]

it won't be 2-3 cents....and it will hurt the poor the most.....or people will just buy sodas in another city....
Sad to say this but it is the poor that need the diet change the most! Fructose corn syrup is not tolerated by the body like a cane or beet sucrose is. If sodas went back to plain old white cane sugar it would help reduce fat people.

[manu1959]

And what capacity were you meeting them in?

i design buildings in SF.....i occasionally end up in meetings with them to gain their support for my client's projects....

[manu1959]

Sad to say this but it is the poor that need the diet change the most! Fructose corn syrup is not tolerated by the body like a cane or beet sucrose is. If sodas went back to plain old white cane sugar it would help reduce fat people.

if you tax em by the pound they will change their ways....

[hjmick]

Sad to say this but it is the poor that need the diet change the most! Fructose corn syrup is not tolerated by the body like a cane or beet sucrose is. If sodas went back to plain old white cane sugar it would help reduce fat people.

One of the reasons I buy Coca-Cola from Mexico. That and it tastes much better. My local Costco stocks it. It's a little more expensive, but then I just drink less.

[Hagbard Celine]

One of the reasons I buy Coca-Cola from Mexico. That and it tastes much better. My local Costco stocks it. It's a little more expensive, but then I just drink less.

There's a plant in Texas that makes Dr. Pepper with cane sugar. It's crazy that high fructose corn syrup is used so widely when our bodies can't absorb it. I think it's what's causing such high incidences of cancer. The FDA needs to make food producers go back to cane sugar.

[hjmick]

I would, and do, happily pay more for soda if it used cane sugar rathe than HFCS. Somebody call the sugar lobby...

[typomaniac]

so you support taxes simply because people will pay them? you support taxing stuff that is not necessary? why?

I support fiscal responsibility. At those times when the only practical way to achieve it is through higher taxes, we had better learn to grin and bear it - or face worse problems later.

[Pale Rider]

if you tax em by the pound they will change their ways....

It may... but that brings us back to the question that conviently hasn't been answered, by anyone.

"Is it right the government to tax people in an attempt to alter behavior?"

[Pale Rider]

I support fiscal responsibility. At those times when the only practical way to achieve it is through higher taxes, we had better learn to grin and bear it - or face worse problems later.

Why is raising taxes the only means you see to gain fiscal responsibility? And why do they have to raise taxes under the guise of wanting people to lose weight?

It's another example of the nanny state. People are too stupid to run their own lives and need the government to do it for them, or at least the liberals would have you believe that.

[manu1959]

It may... but that brings us back to the question that conviently hasn't been answered, by anyone.

"Is it right the government to tax people in an attempt to alter behavior?"

almost every tax is designed to do just that......when a tax doesn't work they pass a law....

[typomaniac]

Why is raising taxes the only means you see to gain fiscal responsibility?

Dude, I said "when it's the only PRACTICAL means." The only time I'd support it is when all the other alternatives are worse.

[hjmick]

It may... but that brings us back to the question that conviently hasn't been answered, by anyone.

"Is it right the government to tax people in an attempt to alter behavior?"

No. Just as it is not right for the government to tell us what we can or can not put in our bodies. We almost all know the risks involved with fast food, alcohol, pot, soda, etcetera. The legislation of personal responsibility needs to stop.

[stephanie]

Why is raising taxes the only means you see to gain fiscal responsibility? And why do they have to raise taxes under the guise of wanting people to lose weight?

Well..how else can THE GOVERMENT run our lives..cause everybody knows we're too stupid to run our own lives...:cheers2:

[typomaniac]

water isn't free.....

Only if you have plumbing. From the perspective of the "man on the street," it's free, in that he can use a drinking fountain without charge.

[manu1959]

Only if you have plumbing. From the perspective of the "man on the street," it's free, in that he can use a drinking fountain without charge.

drinking fountains on the streets of san francisco.....yea right....

[April15]

if you tax em by the pound they will change their ways....I was a body builder many years ago and the BMI showed me to be obese at that time. But my body fat was around 8%. I don't think the BMI is a good method for all.

[manu1959]

I was a body builder many years ago and the BMI showed me to be obese at that time. But my body fat was around 8%. I don't think the BMI is a good method for all.

remember the fitness tests they gave us all when we were kids.....

i still take those so i can referee.....hey you have to have your car smogged....

[Pale Rider]

Well..how else can THE GOVERMENT run our lives..cause everybody knows we're too stupid to run our own lives...:cheers2:

My point exactly. The dems not only get to engage in one of their favorite activities, raising taxes, but they get to put but another constraint on all those people too STUPID to think for themselves.

[Nukeman]

Going after smokers was the first step, then they outlawed smoking in restaurants, now they outlaw smoking in condos and outside public buildings. Can anyone here say Nanny state? I would be worried if I were you.

A story from F Paul Wilson Lipidleggin

Here is a link to the whole story. At the end they discuss the gov. trying to control people's weight and outlawing clothes made in larger sizes.


http://www.billstclair.com/DoingFreedom/000623/df.0600.fa.lipidleggin.html



[Editor's note: This story was first published in 1978 by F. Paul Wilson. Then it was probably considered rather "out there". Today it's a prescient look at what is close to becoming a reality as the Food Police continually try to foist their "good-for-you" policies on individuals. We're pleased to bring this story to our audience.]

Butter.

I can name a man's poison at fifty paces. I take one look at this guy as he walks in and say to myself, "Butter."

He steps carefully, like there's something sticky on the soles of his shoes. Maybe there is, but I figure he moves like that because he's on unfamiliar ground. Never seen his face before and I know just about everybody around.

It's early yet. I just opened the store and Gabe's the only other guy on the buying side of the counter, only he ain't buying. He's waiting in the corner by the checkerboard and I'm just about to go join him when the new guy comes in. It's wet out---not raining, really, just wet like it only gets up here near the Water Gap-and he's wearing a slicker. Underneath that he seems to have a stocky build and is average height. He's got no beard and his eyes are blue with a watery look. Could be from anywhere until he takes off the hat and I see his hair: It's dark brown and he's got it cut in one of those soup-bowl styles that're big in the city.

Gabe gives me an annoyed look as I step back behind the counter, but I ignore him. His last name is Varadi--sounds Italian but it's Hungarian--and he's got plenty of time on his hands. Used to be a Ph.D. in a philosophy department at some university in Upstate New York till they cut the department in half and gave him his walking papers, tenure and all. Now he does part-time labor at one of the mills when they need a little extra help, which ain't near as often as he'd like.

About as poor as you can get, that Gabe. The government giraffes take a big chunk of what little he earns and leave him near nothing to live on. So he goes down to the welfare office where the local giraffes give him food stamps and rent vouchers so he can get by on what the first group of giraffes left him. If you can figure that one out...

Anyway, Gabe's got a lot of time on his hands, like I said, and he hangs out here and plays checkers with me when things are slow. He'd rather play chess, I know, but I can't stand the game. Nothing happens for too long and I get impatient and try to break the game open with some wild gamble. And I always lose. So we play checkers or we don't play.

The new guy puts his hat on the counter and glances around. He looks uneasy. I know what's coming but I'm not going to help him out. There's a little dance we've got to do first.

"I need to buy a few things," he says. His voice has a little tremor in it and close up like this I figure he's in his mid-twenties.

"Well, this is a general store," I reply, getting real busy wiping down the counter, "and we've got all sorts of things. What're you interested in? Antiques? Hardware? Food?"

"I'm not looking for the usual stock."

(The music begins to play)

I look at him with my best puzzled expression. "Just what is it you're after, friend?"

"Butter and eggs."

"Nothing unusual about that. Got a whole cabinet full of both behind you there."

(We're on our way to the dance floor)

"I'm not looking for that. I didn't come all the way out here to buy the same shit I can get in the city. I want the real thing."

"You want the real thing, eh?" I say, meeting his eyes square for the first time. "You know damn well real butter and real eggs are illegal. I could go to jail for carrying that kind of stuff."

[Nukeman]

There's a plant in Texas that makes Dr. Pepper with cane sugar. It's crazy that high fructose corn syrup is used so widely when our bodies can't absorb it. I think it's what's causing such high incidences of cancer. The FDA needs to make food producers go back to cane sugar.

It interresting that if you look at the graph the increase in usage of High Fructose Corn Syrup and diabetes are almost identical. Of course the reason for useing Fructose is the cost it's about half the cost of sugar.

[Pale Rider]

Going after smokers was the first step, then they outlawed smoking in restaurants, now they outlaw smoking in condos and outside public buildings. Can anyone here say Nanny state? I would be worried if I were you.

A story from F Paul Wilson Lipidleggin

Here is a link to the whole story. At the end they discuss the gov. trying to control people's weight and outlawing clothes made in larger sizes.


http://www.billstclair.com/DoingFreedom/000623/df.0600.fa.lipidleggin.html

There doesn't seem to be much concern about it in here Nuke. Seems like the government has got people just about where they want them, starting and taxing anything and everything at will, and nobody really gives a fuck.

[Nukeman]

There doesn't seem to be much concern about it in here Nuke. Seems like the government has got people just about where they want them, starting and taxing anything and everything at will, and nobody really gives a fuck.


They will when it affects them and then it'll be to late. I'm not a smoker, but they have the right to do that if they want, it isn't illegal, YET.

My beautiful wife just pointed out another example (she wrote that). Here they passed a law saying every child under 7 has to be in a car seat. Now around here 3 children are the norm, and you can't fit 3 car seats across the back of a compact car. She wrote our representative and told them they are effectively making people drive or buy SUV's or Vans which they complain about using to much gas. She said this makes it harder for lower income families. Their response, "thanks for your support and contribution to this discussion".

The gov. needs to stop trying to micro-manage peoples lives and stick with running the country as the constitution dictates.

[Pale Rider]

The gov. needs to stop trying to micro-manage peoples lives and stick with running the country as the constitution dictates.

Vote for Ron Paul.

[MtnBiker]

How do you suggest they curb obesity in their cities?

If someone chooses to be obese why should that concern tax payers?

[manu1959]

If someone chooses to be obese why should that concern tax payers?

on the down side health care costs and disproportionate consuption of food and clothing......

on the up side they will probably die before they hit 65 and go on the social security rolls, plus their family wil get hit with the death tax so we should save a few bucks....unless they were on disability the whole time ....

i am telling ya tax the fat.....

[Pale Rider]

on the down side health care costs and disproportionate consuption of food and clothing......

on the up side they will probably die before they hit 65 and go on the social security rolls, plus their family wil get hit with the death tax so we should save a few bucks....unless they were on disability the whole time ....

i am telling ya tax the fat.....

I don't think there could be any "larger"... aaahh... pardon the pun, demographic than the obese. It's an epidemic. More people are fat than not. Any attempt to tax fat people will meet with "huge" opposition.