Democrats Assess Hill Damage, Leadership

[red states rule]

The Dems are not doing well. The fustration is showing thru, and the the arrogance Dems came to power with has changed to anger

Reid and Pelosi are angry. The Dem base is angry. The liberal medi is angry


Associated Press
Democrats Assess Hill Damage, Leadership
By CHARLES BABINGTON 12.16.07, 12:24 PM ET

WASHINGTON - Congressional Democrats will have plenty to ponder during the Christmas-New Year recess. For instance, why did things go so badly this fall, and how well did their leaders serve them?

Partisan players will quarrel for months, but objective analysts say the debate must start here: An embattled president made extraordinary use of his veto power and he was backed by GOP lawmakers who may have put their political fortunes at risk.

Also, a new Democratic leadership team overestimated the impact of the Iraq war and the 2006 elections, learning too late they had no tools to force Bush and his allies to compromise on bitterly contested issues.

Both parties seem convinced that voters will reward them 11 months from now. And they agree that Congress' gridlock and frustration are likely to continue until then - and possibly beyond - unless the narrow party margins in the House and Senate change appreciably.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/12/16/ap4445304.html

[OCA]

Another cut and paste, anybody surprised? Anybody ever seen an original thought from RSR?

[red states rule]

Another cut and paste, anybody surprised? Anybody ever seen an original thought from RSR?

Facts do bother the hell out of you don't they?

[OCA]

Facts do bother the hell out of you don't they?

LMFAO! You must be kidding...........*see Baltimore bus thread*

I guess though I could cut and paste all day long though but then again that isn't debating now, is it?

Name of board=Debate Policy not cut and paste OTHER'S thoughts policy.

You are a spammer.

[red states rule]

LMFAO! You must be kidding...........*see Baltimore bus thread*

I guess though I could cut and paste all day long though but then again that isn't debating now, is it?

Name of board=Debate Policy not cut and paste OTHER'S thoughts policy.

You are a spammer.

Why not address the topic instead of trying to derail another thread?

[OCA]

Why not address the topic instead of trying to derail another thread?

Because I like many others are sick of your cut and paste spam, we'd like to see even a miniscule of original thought from you.

Opinion pieces suck.

[red states rule]

Because I like many others are sick of your cut and paste spam, we'd like to see even a miniscule of original thought from you.

Opinion pieces suck.

Then don't post on the thread. Is that to hard for you to do?

[OCA]

Then don't post on the thread. Is that to hard for you to do?

I post wherever the fuck I want to and whatever I want to.

[trobinett]

I post wherever the fuck I want to and whatever I want to.

This DID look like a thread, that had some interest, but thanks to YOU, any legs it might of had, has been knocked out from underneath it.

Thanks OCA.:slap:

Don't do what I do, do what I say.....................:fu:

[OCA]

This DID look like a thread, that had some interest, but thanks to YOU, any legs it might of had, has been knocked out from underneath it.

Thanks OCA.:slap:

Don't do what I do, do what I say.....................:fu:

No, it was a useless cut and paste opinion piece, your interest was appreciated though.

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,

1. Yeah sucks to have all the air sucked out of a thread.
2. And I'm not surprised who's doing all the sucking,............... ..
3. RSR had a very nice debatable thread here, and now, ahh shit, who freakin cares anymore?????

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[red states rule]

Sorry bout that,

1. Yeah sucks to have all the air sucked out of a thread.
2. And I'm not surprised who's doing all the sucking,............... ..
3. RSR had a very nice debatable thread here, and now, ahh shit, who freakin cares anymore?????

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

ignore the idiot OCA and put comment on the thread

[5stringJeff]

To the point of the story, the Dems have looked idiotic all year trying to deal with Bush's vetoes.

[red states rule]

To the point of the story, the Dems have looked idiotic all year trying to deal with Bush's vetoes.

Pres Bush is winning the battles, and now the Dems are cutting spending - which is a good thing

[OCA]

Sorry bout that,

1. Yeah sucks to have all the air sucked out of a thread.
2. And I'm not surprised who's doing all the sucking,............... ..
3. RSR had a very nice debatable thread here, and now, ahh shit, who freakin cares anymore?????

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Debate hell, this was meant to be a back slapping thread, meant to deflect from the disaster that has been the Bush administration and the disaster that was Congress during the years from 1994 -2006.

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,

1. I think the Neoliberals are screwed anyway they go.
2. If Obama Bin Laden wins, they lose.
3. If Hillary wins, they lose.
4. They can only win for losing or lose for winning.
5. Either way, they're screwed.
6. They just don't know it yet.
7. Thats, why ( I ), *The Great CWN* am here!
8. The only gridlock we are going to have to deal with is America calling these Neoliberals on the phone complaining how they aren't doing what they were being told by the base.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[OCA]

Pres Bush is winning the battles, and now the Dems are cutting spending - which is a good thing

Which battles would those be? The economy according to most experts is headed to the tank in 2008, Iraq according to most experts is at best just a tread water situation, he has a new scandal that comes out every week.

Bush has been a disaster.

[glockmail]

Debate hell, this was meant to be a back slapping thread, meant to deflect from the disaster that has been the Bush administration and the disaster that was Congress during the years from 1994 -2006. Bush has been a disaater why, how? Clinton acted like a pussy for years which gave the Islamists big balls and they hit us. Bush inherited that shit, and dealt with them severly. All the while the economy's doing well, taxes are lower, and no rag-head has been sucessful at killing Americans on our soil since 9-11-2001.

W deserves a debt of gratitude from you and all of us.

[OCA]

Bush has been a disaater why, how? Clinton acted like a pussy for years which gave the Islamists big balls and they hit us. Bush inherited that shit, and dealt with them severly. All the while the economy's doing well, taxes are lower, and no rag-head has been sucessful at killing Americans on our soil since 9-11-2001.

W deserves a debt of gratitude from you and all of us.

W deserves nothing, he's increased spending not including military spending exponentially over Clinton, taxes were cut just a teeny fraction, nowhere near what they needed to be and Iraq......................Iraq should have been over within a year but when you handcuff the generals on the ground, make strategical gaffe after gaffe and run the war from the oval office with PC as the #1 consideration you've fucked up.

The economy is doing O.K. but that will be short lived, go read up about sub prime mortgages and foreclosures which will be taking place at a record pace in 2008 sending the economy into a freefall. Hell foriegn banks which bought these loans on the open international market are already going belly up, the mortgage and lending companies took advantage of loose credit restrictions to give people these ARM loans, people who had no fucking right getting a loan, now the rates are going up and people are gonna go into arrears and the economy is going to take a shit.

All that happened on W's watch

But yeah, no ragheads have hit us since 9/11, lets throw a party.

[glockmail]

W deserves nothing, he's increased spending not including military spending exponentially over Clinton, taxes were cut just a teeny fraction, nowhere near what they needed to be and Iraq......................Iraq should have been over within a year but when you handcuff the generals on the ground, make strategical gaffe after gaffe and run the war from the oval office with PC as the #1 consideration you've fucked up.

The economy is doing O.K. but that will be short lived, go read up about sub prime mortgages and foreclosures which will be taking place at a record pace in 2008 sending the economy into a freefall. Hell foriegn banks which bought these loans on the open international market are already going belly up, the mortgage and lending companies took advantage of loose credit restrictions to give people these ARM loans, people who had no fucking right getting a loan, now the rates are going up and people are gonna go into arrears and the economy is going to take a shit.

All that happened on W's watch

But yeah, no ragheads have hit us since 9/11, lets throw a party. You complain that W micro-manged generals (didn't happen), then complain that he didn't micro-manage banks.

You've had too much Uzo.

[OCA]

You complain that W micro-manged generals (didn't happen), then complain that he didn't micro-manage banks.

You've had too much Uzo.

No, i'm not asking him to micrmanage the banking industry i'm saying that an atmosphere was created by the federal reserve in which shoddy loans were allowed to be issued and we are all going to suffer for it. All that happened under his watch.

3.00 a gallon gas, under his watch.

I can go on if you'd like.

[OCA]

You complain that W micro-manged generals (didn't happen), then complain that he didn't micro-manage banks.

You've had too much Uzo.

Forgot to address the generals thing................look up what happened when the Marines had Fallujah surrounded and done for and old Paul Bremmer called up Georgie and cried that the battle for Fallujah was going to upset the delicate little government in Baghdad...........................4 yrs later another 2500 American dead and the governmrnt there still doesn't have its shit together.

We had the bastards by the balls and..............

[glockmail]

No, i'm not asking him to micrmanage the banking industry i'm saying that an atmosphere was created by the federal reserve in which shoddy loans were allowed to be issued and we are all going to suffer for it. All that happened under his watch.

3.00 a gallon gas, under his watch.

I can go on if you'd like.

The amount I know about the banking industry would fit on the head of a pin but my sense is the Fed tried to deregulate a bit too fast and too far and that's one of histories lessons. I wasn't dumb enough to sign onto a sub-prime loan and frankly no mortgage banker tried to sell me on it. I pay an adviser 3.5G a year to keep me straight on this and with his advice it was not dificult to see the potentail for disaster.

The price of gas sucks but its not as bad as Europe. Bush should tell the environmentalists to whack off in the bushes but he's got other battles to fight. Its their fault no his.

Bottom line it can't be easy for a GOP president to lead with a liberal media. I didn't like Reagan when he was Prez, but with much, much reading about what he did and with the proper perspective of maturity its obvious that I was wrong, and Reagan was the best in the 20th century.

[OCA]

The amount I know about the banking industry would fit on the head of a pin but my sense is the Fed tried to deregulate a bit too fast and too far and that's one of histories lessons. I wasn't dumb enough to sign onto a sub-prime loan and frankly no mortgage banker tried to sell me on it. I pay an adviser 3.5G a year to keep me straight on this and with his advice it was not dificult to see the potentail for disaster.

The price of gas sucks but its not as bad as Europe. Bush should tell the environmentalists to whack off in the bushes but he's got other battles to fight. Its their fault no his.

Bottom line it can't be easy for a GOP president to lead with a liberal media. I didn't like Reagan when he was Prez, but with much, much reading about what he did and with the proper perspective of maturity its obvious that I was wrong, and Reagan was the best in the 20th century.

Lets be honest, if this crap had happened under Bubba's watch we'd be all over him like a cheap suit.

[red states rule]

No, i'm not asking him to micrmanage the banking industry i'm saying that an atmosphere was created by the federal reserve in which shoddy loans were allowed to be issued and we are all going to suffer for it. All that happened under his watch.

3.00 a gallon gas, under his watch.

I can go on if you'd like.

Only about 5% of h/o's are late with their payments. Mortage companies are being proactive and offering h/o's to refinance before the rate changes. It is not the "crisis" you make it out to be

Your experts have wrong for the last 5 years. When good economic news is reported, the "experts" are surprised by the news, or the news was unexpected

The tax cuts have brought in more revenue, and has caused the usual economic growth. Even with $3 gas, the economy continues to roll along

[red states rule]

Forgot to address the generals thing................look up what happened when the Marines had Fallujah surrounded and done for and old Paul Bremmer called up Georgie and cried that the battle for Fallujah was going to upset the delicate little government in Baghdad...........................4 yrs later another 2500 American dead and the governmrnt there still doesn't have its shit together.

We had the bastards by the balls and..............

and now AQ is all but gone in Badhdad, tens of thouisands of refugees are returning home, and the government of Iraq is now in charge of Basra

[red states rule]

You complain that W micro-manged generals (didn't happen), then complain that he didn't micro-manage banks.

You've had too much Uzo.

Unlike OCA, this from a guy who knows what he is talking about

snip

It's important to understand that the biggest problem in the sub-prime market is the rising default and foreclosure rate. Even though sub-prime adjustable-rate mortgages (ARMs) make up only 4.4 percent of home loans, they represent 43 percent of foreclosures through the third quarter, according to University of Michigan professor Mark Perry. These are the trouble-making loans that were packaged and highly leveraged for sales to institutional lenders throughout the world. But the key point is that ARMs are tied to LIBOR and federal funds markets in London and New York. Thus, if global central banks are to relieve the sub-prime ARM problem, they must get their target rates lower.

All the discount-window rigmarole published by Bernanke & Co. -- aiming at perhaps $50 billion of new bank loans-- is nowhere near a solution. The Financial Times reports that the Federal Home Loan Bank -- a New Deal agency -- pumped in an annualized rate of $746 billion to the private U.S. mortgage sector in the third quarter. Compare that to the Fed's $800 million of discount loans in the same quarter. It's only one-tenth of the home-loan bank's credit injection.

The bottom line remains simple: The Fed must right-size the inverted Treasury yield curve by bringing its 4.25 percent target rate much closer to the 3-month Treasury bill, which is trading below 3 percent, and below all the other Treasury rates that are lower than the fed funds rate.

Financiers can't borrow short to lend long unless the key borrowing rate is well below medium- and short-term rates. Because the yield curve remains inverted, and money-market credit is frozen, the U.S. monetary base is growing at less than 2 percent. This is very tight money. (Incidentally, this is why no one should be worried about future inflation, even after last week's price-index flare-ups.)

Lawrence Kudlow is a former Reagan economic advisor, a syndicated columnist, and the host of CNBC's Kudlow & Company. Visit his blog, Kudlow's Money Politics.



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/12/bernanke_blows_smoke.html

[glockmail]

Lets be honest, if this crap had happened under Bubba's watch we'd be all over him like a cheap suit. Yes, but unfairly. That's just part of the gotcha game that was perfected by the Clintion Machine, and what we all play so well now.

[red states rule]

Yes, but unfairly. That's just part of the gotcha game that was perfected by the Clintion Machine, and what we all play so well now.

Some people will blame Pres Bush for whatever goes wrong - even if it is beyond his control

[trobinett]

Some people will blame Pres Bush for whatever goes wrong - even if it is beyond his control

Right or wrong, that's the way it is, but President Bush has proven he has big shoulders.:poke:

[April15]

The Dems are not doing well. The fustration is showing thru, and the the arrogance Dems came to power with has changed to anger

Reid and Pelosi are angry. The Dem base is angry. The liberal medi is angry


Associated Press
Democrats Assess Hill Damage, Leadership
By CHARLES BABINGTON 12.16.07, 12:24 PM ET

WASHINGTON - Congressional Democrats will have plenty to ponder during the Christmas-New Year recess. For instance, why did things go so badly this fall, and how well did their leaders serve them?

Partisan players will quarrel for months, but objective analysts say the debate must start here: An embattled president made extraordinary use of his veto power and he was backed by GOP lawmakers who may have put their political fortunes at risk.

Also, a new Democratic leadership team overestimated the impact of the Iraq war and the 2006 elections, learning too late they had no tools to force Bush and his allies to compromise on bitterly contested issues.

Both parties seem convinced that voters will reward them 11 months from now. And they agree that Congress' gridlock and frustration are likely to continue until then - and possibly beyond - unless the narrow party margins in the House and Senate change appreciably.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/12/16/ap4445304.html

This guy is on drugs or something. The dems have nothing to worry about. America knows the repugnants need to go and that is what will happen.

[OCA]

This guy is on drugs or something. The dems have nothing to worry about. America knows the repugnants need to go and that is what will happen.


Not that I want it to happen but its is going to happen, landslide for Hillary in Nov.2008, right now we are just going through the motions.

[glockmail]

Not that I want it to happen but its is going to happen, landslide for Hillary in Nov.2008, right now we are just going through the motions. I use to think she was shoe-in, never a landslide, but after she lost the polls against the top 5 republicans I'd say she hasn't a flea's chance on a skunk.

She is likely to lose to Obama, with Oprah playing the race card. And white dems will not vote for a black man.

[red states rule]

This guy is on drugs or something. The dems have nothing to worry about. America knows the repugnants need to go and that is what will happen.

I take it you can't counter the economic facts in the article

[red states rule]

Not that I want it to happen but its is going to happen, landslide for Hillary in Nov.2008, right now we are just going through the motions.

Please, do not try to make a living as a bookie

[OCA]

I use to think she was shoe-in, never a landslide, but after she lost the polls against the top 5 republicans I'd say she hasn't a flea's chance on a skunk.

She is likely to lose to Obama, with Oprah playing the race card. And white dems will not vote for a black man.

Polls mean absolutely jackshit, the polls had Bush losing Ohio.

Trust me, we will be listening to Fleetwood Mac in November 2008.

[OCA]

I take it you can't counter the economic facts in the article


There is no Republican that can beat her or even Obama for that matter, A dem will get in in November because its simply a vote against the corruption, scandal and ineptness of the Bush administration.

[red states rule]

There is no Republican that can beat her or even Obama for that matter, A dem will get in in November because its simply a vote against the corruption, scandal and ineptness of the Bush administration.


a vote for a dem is a vote for higher taxes, government run health care,
amnesty for illegals, surrender and appeasement to terrorists, and liberal Judges who make law from the bench

I believe a majority of voters do not support their platform

What corruption are you talking about?

[Pale Rider]

No, i'm not asking him to micrmanage the banking industry i'm saying that an atmosphere was created by the federal reserve in which shoddy loans were allowed to be issued and we are all going to suffer for it. All that happened under his watch.

3.00 a gallon gas, under his watch.

I can go on if you'd like.

Open borders.

[Pale Rider]

Not that I want it to happen but its is going to happen, landslide for Hillary in Nov.2008, right now we are just going through the motions.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.... Yur fucking cracked brother... ain't no fuckin' way in HELL! Goddamn... I like ya and all, but sometimes you say some seriously fucked up shit.

The dems are going to get a serious ASS KICKING in November. You need to realize that and try and save some face.

[red states rule]

Open borders.

I like Pres Bush, voted for him twice - but he did blow it by not sealing the borders

Every Dem running for President is worse then Pres Bush when it comes to sealing the borders

[Pale Rider]

I like Pres Bush, voted for him twice - but he did blow it by not sealing the borders

Every Dem running for President is worse then Pres Bush when it comes to sealing the borders

bush is an open borders globalist just like his filthy old man, AND I believe he's fucked up Iraq big time. I don't think we should have gone in there AT ALL! I have no love for bush. I'll be damn glad to see the fucker gone.

[red states rule]

bush is an open borders globalist just like his filthy old man, AND I believe he's fucked up Iraq big time. I don't think we should have gone in there AT ALL! I have no love for bush. I'll be damn glad to see the fucker gone.

I am glad to see him go as well

We have to agree to disagree on Iraq.

Dems are worse the Pres Bush. Hell they would welcome them with open arms and a voter registration form

[Pale Rider]

I am glad to see him go as well

We have to agree to disagree on Iraq.

Dems are worse the Pres Bush. Hell they would welcome them with open arms and a voter registration form

The dems are all bad for America. They're liberals, and liberals are the cancer in American society. To bad we can't run the fuckin' liberals out of America along with the illegal aliens.

[red states rule]

The dems are all bad for America. They're liberals, and liberals are the cancer in American society. To bad we can't run the fuckin' liberals out of America along with the illegal aliens.

On this we agree. (and I know about cancer and how it can eat you alive unless you treat it properly)

[glockmail]

Polls mean absolutely jackshit, the polls had Bush losing Ohio.

Trust me, we will be listening to Fleetwood Mac in November 2008. I'll smash my old LPs if that's the case. Or better yet use them as clays.

[red states rule]

I'll smash my old LPs if that's the case. Or better yet use them as clays.

Hillary may not get past Obama to get a crack at the WH

[glockmail]

Hillary may not get past Obama to get a crack at the WH
Bill is dreaming of getting a fresh young crack in the WH.

[red states rule]

Bill is dreaming of getting a fresh young crack in the WH.

and Hillary as well

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,




Sorry bout that,

1. But both the Neoliberals have some fatal flaws.
2. Hillary is carrying around on her shoulders the famous, *THUNDER PRICK*!
3. While Obama's has some questions on his allegiance to the USA.
4. Can we trust this guy, who looks and has some Muzzy back ground?
5. His middle name is a classic Muzzy name, *Hussein*, which should disqualify him, but not for a Neoliberal, they have no common sense.
6. So the Neoliebrals have two fatal candidates, and they don't have enough sense to look at Edwards.:laugh2:

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas



1. Spoke too soon, seems they are considering Edwards.
2. Read this:http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/12/18/524511.aspx

"

From NBC’s Domenico Montanaro
In an InsiderAdvantage poll in Iowa, Edwards leads among (977) likely voters 30-26-24 over Clinton and Obama. Edwards is also the clear second choice winner, 42-29-28 over Clinton and Obama. This is the first poll to show Edwards solely in the lead in Iowa since July.

Among highly likely caucus goers (of which there are 633), though, the three are deadlocked: Obama 27, Edwards 26, Clinton 24. Edwards again wins second choice, 42-31-27 over Clinton and Obama. The poll was conducted Dec. 16-17 and has a margin of error of 3% for the likely voters section and 4% for the highly likely voters section.

On the Republican side, among (833) likely voters, here are the numbers: Huckabee 28, Romney 25, Thompson 10, McCain 9, Paul 6, Giuliani 6. Among (418) highly likely voters, Romney leads with 28%, then Huckabee 25, Thompson 11, McCain 7, Paul 6, Giuliani 5, Tancredo 4.

A national Diageo/Hotline poll shows a narrowing between the Democrats and a tight race on the Republican side. The Dems: Clinton 35%, Obama 30, Edwards 14. The Republicans: Giuliani 21%, Huckabee 17, Romney 13, Thompson 11, McCain 10, Paul 7.



"

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Immanuel]

Dems are worse the Pres Bush. Hell they would welcome them with open arms and a voter registration form

You forgot the gift certificate to Target as a welcoming gift. They realize that Walmart would be more convenient and appropriate but the liberals are waging a war against Walmart so the gift certificate from Target would serve two purposes: welcoming the aliens and boosting sales of Target to make Target #1 over Walmart.

Immie

[red states rule]

You forgot the gift certificate to Target as a welcoming gift. They realize that Walmart would be more convenient and appropriate but the liberals are waging a war against Walmart so the gift certificate from Target would serve two purposes: welcoming the aliens and boosting sales of Target to make Target #1 over Walmart.

Immie

and Dems would toss in a government check and drivers license as well. Why should they care - they are not paying for it - we are

[red states rule]

I am still waiting for anyone to tell us the accomplishements of the Reid/Pelosi Congress

They have alot of failures - but what have they accomplished?

The failures are there for all to see. Think back to what the Dems promised to get elected


Not bringing troops home from Iraq and surrendering to terrorists

They have not impeached Pres Bush

No government run healthcare plan

Not cutting the pork

Useless investigations in non issues.

and the obsession to tax the shit of as many Americans as they can