White House Christmas card

[Trigg]

Barbara obviously needs to be reminded of the REASON for Christmas. Hey Barb, it's not about presents and Santa.



ABC's Barbara Walters Slams White House Christmas Card for including Scripture

By Colleen Raezler of the Culture and Media Institute

LOS ANGELES, CA, December 14, 2007 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Barbara Walters likes to receive Christmas greetings from high-profile celebrities and leaders, but apparently not if they refer to the Bible.

On Thursday's episode of ABC's The View, Walters expressed dismay that President and Mrs. Bush would send out greetings containing Scripture.

During the segment, Walters showed the other gals some of the "highfalutin Christmas cards," and explained the White House card:

"First of all, let me show you the cover of the White House, which is nice and bland…So that's pleasant enough. This is what interested me, that it is a religious Christmas card. Usually in the past when I have received a Christmas card, it's been 'happy holiday's' and so on- And this says:

"'You alone are the Lord. You made the heavens, even the highest heavens, and all their starry host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them. You gave life to everything, and the multitudes of heaven worship you.'

"That's from Nehemiah in the Old Testament. I don't remember- and I'm sure people will remind me-getting a religious card. Now does this also go to agnostics and atheists and Muslims and -"

[truthmatters]

You are aware that many non christians celibrate Christams as a family holiday right?

It has deep roots in the Pagen religion.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas#Pre-Christian_origins

[Trigg]

You are aware that many non christians celibrate Christams as a family holiday right?

It has deep roots in the Pagen religion.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas#Pre-Christian_origins

Yes some pegan rituals were incorporated into the religious celebration.

However it is a Christian holiday, just because non-christians celebrate it also doesn't take away the fact that we are celebrating Jesus birth.

[truthmatters]

He is not just the president of the Christian Americans.

[Trigg]

He is not just the president of the Christian Americans.


It's Christmas time and he sent out a card about....gasp....Christ. This card represents his beliefs. He's not preaching, he is simply sending out a card that represents them.


Somewhere around 95% of Americans celebrate this holiday, and I would assume ALL know the reason for Christmas is Jesus birth.

Getting insulted by getting a Christmas card that is religious is assenine.

[Trigg]

This was simply a chance for her to slam the president whom she doesn't like.

Especially after this was pointed out about another of her cards.


Walters showed her co-hosts a Christmas card from Elton John and his partner David Furnish that had angels on the cover. She didn't have similar concerns over the religious imagery as she did about the Scripture printed in the White House card.

Co-host Joy Behar pointed out to Walters that Elton John's card was "religious," and Walters responded, "But it doesn't say anything religious. It says 'Season's Greetings.'"

http://www.daylife.com/article/03cef3vaYO9NQ

[truthmatters]

"'You alone are the Lord. You made the heavens, even the highest heavens, and all their starry host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them. You gave life to everything, and the multitudes of heaven worship you.'


Sending a religious card at a time when many religions are celibrating their own sacred religions is an insult.

Do you think he sent them to all the people on his list including the people who do not share his religion?

I do get insulted when people who know what I believe ssend me a card like this which infers I should belive what they believe.


Would you like me to send you a card that touts atheism at christmas time?

I would never do that. I always pick the ones that wish people peace and love at this time of year no matter what they believe.

[5stringJeff]

"'You alone are the Lord. You made the heavens, even the highest heavens, and all their starry host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them. You gave life to everything, and the multitudes of heaven worship you.'


Sending a religious card at a time when many religions are celibrating their own sacred religions is an insult.

Do you think he sent them to all the people on his list including the people who do not share his religion?

I do get insulted when people who know what I believe ssend me a card like this which infers I should belive what they believe.


Would you like me to send you a card that touts atheism at christmas time?

I would never do that. I always pick the ones that wish people peace and love at this time of year no matter what they believe.

Sending a religious card that honors the holiday that you are celebrating is not offensive, it's appropriate. And why would you send an atheist a Christmas card anyway? Why would any atheist celebrate the birth of a Savior they don't recognize?

[truthmatters]

Maybe you should read all the posts. Its a short thread dude.

It is originally a pagen holiday celibrating the winter season.

Many people celibrate it as a family holiday.

Every fricking athiest I know does so.

[Trigg]

"'You alone are the Lord. You made the heavens, even the highest heavens, and all their starry host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them. You gave life to everything, and the multitudes of heaven worship you.'


Sending a religious card at a time when many religions are celibrating their own sacred religions is an insult.

Do you think he sent them to all the people on his list including the people who do not share his religion?

I do get insulted when people who know what I believe ssend me a card like this which infers I should belive what they believe.

Almost forgot, I went to her my-space and there are NUMEROUS Merry Christmas and God Bless you greetings. I would think that if she were so offended she would take those down.

This was solely a slam against the President.


Would you like me to send you a card that touts atheism at christmas time?

I would never do that. I always pick the ones that wish people peace and love at this time of year no matter what they believe.

The only other major religion relebrating anything at this time of year are the Jews and guess what.........they believe in GOD. End of your argument.

Atheist arn't celebrating anything, other than commercialism.

If a jewish friend wanted to send me a hannuka card, I would accept it in the spirit in which it was sent. If you are offended by a religious card sent at this time of year you are thin skinned and pathetic.

[Trigg]

Maybe you should read all the posts. Its a short thread dude.

It is originally a pagen holiday celibrating the winter season.

Many people celibrate it as a family holiday.

Every fricking athiest I know does so.

No your wrong here.

The catholic church incorporated many pagan dates into the Christian calander in order to bring the pegans into the Christian beliefs.

Jesus birth was NEVER a pegan holiday. The chuch picked this time of year because they didn't really know the date of his birth, but figured it was close and since the pegans were already celebrating winter solstice they picked Dec. 25th.

People may celebrate Christmas as a family holiday, but the REASON for Christmas is Jesus birth.

You don't want to celebrate Christmas fine, good for you. But don't insult others who want to. That includes the President celebrating his religion. You do not have the right to not be offended in this country. Because he is the president does not mean he gives up his religous beliefs it means he doesn't promote them. He has the right to acnowledge them, just like the muslims in congress have the right to observe their holidays.

[truthmatters]

Atheist arn't celebrating anything, other than commercialism.



How completely insulting of you to post this.

Do you think people who are atheist have no moral values?

[Trigg]

Atheist arn't celebrating anything, other than commercialism.



How completely insulting of you to post this.

Do you think people who are atheist have no moral values?

What is an atheist celebrating then???????????????????????

An atheist doesn't believe in a higher being, correct.

This has nothing to do with morals.

[truthmatters]

A family holiday like I said.

Its for connecting with family and sharing the spirit of love ad peace with your fellow man.

You have shown by example how insulting this card is. Thanks for helping me make my point.

[Trigg]

A family holiday like I said.

Its for connecting with family and sharing the spirit of love ad peace with your fellow man.

You have shown by example how insulting this card is. Thanks for helping me make my point.


Why if your an atheist would you pick this time of year to celebrate peace and you fellow man? Why not June or the summer solstice??? Why this season with it's religious connotations???? Sorry, but the only reason a non-Christian or Jew would be involved in celebrating anything this time of year is for commercialism.

Of 365 days in a year would an atheist pick Dec. 25 to celebrate a family holiday????????

I have not insulted anyone in anyway. I never called their morals into question, that was you.

Again if a Jewish friend or Buddist or whatever sent me a card on their religious holiday I would accept the card in the spirit in which it was given. I would not get insulted or offended.

[truthmatters]

Because it is a holiday recognised by many. It started as a holiday in many beliefs to celibrate the winter soltice. It was overtaken by the christain religion to convert people like the pagens to christianity. These are historical facts. I celebrate it as a family holiday because it has been celebrated as such for many years before christ. You do not own the rights to how and when others celebrate.

Again you are helping to prove my point that you wish to insult me for my beliefs.

[truthmatters]

The only other major religion relebrating anything at this time of year are the Jews and guess what.........they believe in GOD. End of your argument.

Atheist arn't celebrating anything, other than commercialism.

If a jewish friend wanted to send me a hannuka card, I would accept it in the spirit in which it was sent. If you are offended by a religious card sent at this time of year you are thin skinned and pathetic.



Lets remember what you said.

You said atheists dont celebrate anything but commercialism.

If I said that about why you celebrate christmas would you be insulted?

[manu1959]

it would appear that freedom of speech does not apply to christians at christmas nor the president.....

[Trigg]

Because it is a holiday recognised by many. It started as a holiday in many beliefs to celibrate the winter soltice. It was overtaken by the christain religion to convert people like the pagens to christianity. These are historical facts. I celebrate it as a family holiday because it has been celebrated as such for many years before christ. You do not own the rights to how and when others celebrate.

We already agreed that the pegans celebrated winter soltice, please see post #10.

It is a holiday recognised by many because MANY are Christian and celebrating Jesus birth....try to stay with it.....it makes the thread go so much easier.

As for it being a family holiday from your own source even the Romans and other pegans were celebrating their GODS this time of year. This makes it religious.


A winter festival was traditionally the most popular festival of the year in many cultures. Reasons included less agricultural work needing to be done during the winter, as well as people expecting longer days and shorter nights after the winter solstice in the Northern Hemisphere.[4] In part, the Christmas celebration was created by the early Church in order to entice pagan Romans to convert to Christianity without losing their own winter celebrations.[5][4] Certain prominent gods and goddesses of other religions in the region had their birthdays celebrated on December 25, including Ishtar, Sol Invictus and Mithras . Various traditions are considered to have been syncretised from winter festivals including the following:


Saturnalia
Main article: Saturnalia
In Roman times, the best-known winter festival was Saturnalia, which was popular throughout Italy. Saturnalia was a time of general relaxation, feasting, merry-making, and a cessation of formal rules. It included the making and giving of small presents (Saturnalia et Sigillaricia), including small dolls for children and candles for adults.[6] During Saturnalia, business was postponed and even slaves feasted. There was drinking, gambling, and singing, and even public nudity. It was the "best of days," according to the poet Catullus.[7] Saturnalia honored the god Saturn and began on December 17. The festival gradually lengthened until the late Republican period, when it was seven days (December 17–24). In imperial times, Saturnalia was shortened to five days.[8]

[Trigg]

Again you are helping to prove my point that you wish to insult me for my beliefs.

By your own posts you have no beliefs in a higher power, HOW is it insulting for me to point that out????????

Have I insulted atheists by saying that they are supporting commercialism by buying presents and giving gifts for a holiday they don't believe in???

[Trigg]

Lets remember what you said.

You said atheists dont celebrate anything but commercialism.

If I said that about why you celebrate christmas would you be insulted?


Yes I would be because I am celebrating Christmas becase of the birth of Christ. You however are celebrating NOTHING other than a family get together.

Again out of 365 days in a year why would an atheist pick Dec. 25 as a holiday to celebrate????? Summer solstice is a very nice time of year. Are you maybe celebrating this time of year in order to give gifts?????? That is, sorry to say, commercialism.

[manu1959]

By your own posts you have no beliefs in a higher power, HOW is it insulting for me to point that out????????

Have I insulted atheists by saying that they are supporting commercialism by buying presents and giving gifts for a holiday they don't believe in???

run out of nails to pound into a random piece of wood have we....

[truthmatters]

it would appear that freedom of speech does not apply to christians at christmas nor the president.....


Where did anyone sugest he be prosicuted for sending it?

Freedom of speech includes expressing the fact that you are insulted by a christmas card designed to exclude your religious beliefs and tout only one point of view on what this season means.

I think you need to understand 1st amendment better.

[truthmatters]

By your own posts you have no beliefs in a higher power, HOW is it insulting for me to point that out????????

Have I insulted atheists by saying that they are supporting commercialism by buying presents and giving gifts for a holiday they don't believe in???


NO you said I and other athiests celebrate nothing other than commercialism.

It is these poor choice of words which show your contempt for those who do not believe the same as you do.


I celebrate at this time of the year because people have done so LONG before your religion began. You do not own it.

[Trigg]

run out of nails to pound into a random piece of wood have we....

She sucked me in again, I couldn't help myself:laugh2:

[manu1959]

Where did anyone sugest he be prosicuted for sending it?

Freedom of speech includes expressing the fact that you are insulted by a christmas card designed to exclude your religious beliefs and tout only one point of view on what this season means.

I think you need to understand 1st amendment better.

ah look who is being rude again.....

last i checked anyone can send any kind of christmas card to anyone they want.....if you don't like it burn the card and cross the person off your list....

the president is a christian is it such a shock that he would express that on his christmas card .... he isn't a pagen and he isn't jewish and he isn't and aetheist....so why would he pander and pretend to be something he isn't....

well because he believes in something and stands up for it....

more than i can say for the folks that are so concerned about offending people they are only willing to send out generic winter festival cards.....

what about the green crowd...you are wasting paper and increasing green house gasses delivering the cards and driving around to buy all this crap....

as some point you all should just kill yourself so you won't run the risk of offending anyone....plus it will reduce your carbon footprint....

[truthmatters]

Now I should just kill myself according to you?

How unchristian.

I am expressing that I do get offended at overtly christian cards from people who know Im not christian. For this you continue to insult me?

I never burn the cards and I display them with the others. I merely stated there is a pang of insult in me when I read them for the first time. For some reason you feel I should not be allowed to talk about this but should instead kill myself?

I never tell the people hey that made me feel bad. I read it feel the insult and then in a spirit of love and peace forgive them for the transgression they may or may not have intended. You posted this thread so I felt it was OK to talk about that pang of insult. How is it I can forgive yet you seem to find it very hard?

[Trigg]

NO you said I and other athiests celebrate nothing other than commercialism.

It is these poor choice of words which show your contempt for those who do not believe the same as you do.


I celebrate at this time of the year because people have done so LONG before your religion began. You do not own it.

Also from your sight.


The prominence of Christmas Day increased gradually after Charlemagne was crowned on Christmas Day in 800. Around the 12th century, the remnants of the former Saturnalian traditions of the Romans were transferred to the Twelve Days of Christmas (26 December – 6 January). Christmas during the Middle Ages was a public festival, incorporating ivy, holly, and other evergreens, as well as gift-giving.

The Roman pegans were celebrating their god Saturn, which still makes it a religious holiday.

Again, what are you celebrating and giving gifts for???? Do you give gifts on other family get-togethers??? Do you practice this all year and at other family events or just this time of year?????

Its for connecting with family and sharing the spirit of love ad peace with your fellow man


I'm done arguing with you, you make little sense and twist things around.

I have said many times thoughout this thread that I would not be offended if someone from another religioun sent me a card during their religious holidays. I would accept it in the spirit it was given. I think they are sending good wishes during their holiday.

They, I'm sure, wouldn't like people who don't believe in their holiday celebrating it just because they get gifts at that time.

I don't celebrate during Haunnuka for 8 days just because I get more gifts, that would be insulting to Jews. I also don't celebrate Eid or Ramadan as a time to get together with my family.

Atheist are trying to pretend that this is a secular holiday and it isn't. It never was. By your own websight, it states that the pegans were celebrating their GODS.

Either get a new argument or find a new source.

[truthmatters]

It is a tradition which predates your own christian traditions. Why do you refuse to realise this?

When I celebrate Christmas I have the right to do it for any reason I like.

You do not get to define what others do in name of what they believe.

This again shows just how little respect you have for people who believe differently than you do.

That is the point of this whole thread and why Waters felt the same pang I did on recieving the card.

I would never send a card designed to tell someone they believed the wrong thing at their celebration time. Its just plain rude.

[Nukeman]

It is a tradition which predates your own christian traditions. Why do you refuse to realise this?.
Hey dip shit I think she said this in at least 3 post!!! Including the one right above this one.... Take a READING COMPREHENSION COURSE!!! PLEASE!!!!


When I celebrate Christmas I have the right to do it for any reason I like.yes you do but if your doing it for gifts than that is just commercialism, humanism, and secularism....

Why do you call it and celebrate it as Christmas???? Why not celebrate it as winter solstice???? or Happy get-together day????? Do you celebrate Hannuka as a family get together??

My question is why call your celebration Christmas than then wonder why people send you religious Christmas cards? If you told everyone you were celebrating Hannuka they would assume you were Jewish and send greetings that were appropriate to that religion.



You do not get to define what others do in name of what they believe.No we dont, and YOU dont get to tell us how we celebrate our RELIGIOUS holiday


This again shows just how little respect you have for people who believe differently than you do.
I believe Trigg stated she is not offended when others celebrate their holidays any way they see fit YOUR the one who says she is offended by a religious card being sent to you, so who is the intolerant one here...



That is the point of this whole thread and why Waters felt the same pang I did on recieving the card.
That is her perogative to feel that way but to put it on NATIONAL tv is just "self grandiosing" only



I would never send a card designed to tell someone they believed the wrong thing at their celebration time. Its just plain rude

So someone sends you a card that has a religious statement in it and YOU ASSUME they are prosilitizing to you and attempting to convert you



HEY TM


MERRY CHRISTMAS AND MAY GOD BLESS YOU EVERY DAY OF YOUR LIFE!!!!

[stephanie]

Ba Ba Walters should retire..her senility is starting to show..:poke:

[mrg666]

its a f**kin western tradition agnostic , muslim or whatever
they live in the west
merry christmas everyone

[PostmodernProphet]

It is originally a pagen holiday celibrating the winter season.

no...Christ's Mass has never been a pagan holiday....there may have been a pagan holiday on the winter solstice, in fact, I believe there were many.....but nobody remembers much about those pagan gods nowdays and nobody who celebrates Christmas is celebrating a pagan holiday.....some may be celebrating Jesus' birth, and some may be celebrating National Let's Spend Money Season, but let's give the pagan gods their due.....which is nothing......

[5stringJeff]

Maybe you should read all the posts. Its a short thread dude.

It is originally a pagen holiday celibrating the winter season.

Many people celibrate it as a family holiday.

Every fricking athiest I know does so.

I read the thread, sweetheart. The fact that pagan religions used the date of December 25 to celebrate their gods does not negate the fact that Christianity also picked December 25 (unwisely, IMO, but that's besides the point) to celebrate the birth of Christ. If you want to celebrate for pagan reasons, go right ahead. But don't pretend that Christian beliefs have no place on December 25th.

By the way, since I know you aren't Muslim, are you offended that your Congress decided to give an official word of praise to Islam (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=9642)?

[AFbombloader]

You are aware that many non christians celibrate Christams as a family holiday right?

It has deep roots in the Pagen religion.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas#Pre-Christian_origins

Will you please step away from the wikipedia!!!!! How many times do people need to hear that it is not a respectable source becaue any jackass can go on there and change a page to say whatever he wants? You may make a valid point, but I will ignore any because of the reference to wikipedia. Find something else to validate your claim!!!!!!!


AF:salute:

[AFbombloader]

TM, if you truly are an athiest you should be as offended by the pagan rituals as you are by any other religion. You should not cerebrate this holiday season for anything. Everything you have stated so far has been traces in one way or another to a religion, which believes in a"god" of some kind, which you should not believe in as an "athiest" Make up your mind.

AF:salute:

[hjmick]

Why if your an atheist would you pick this time of year to celebrate peace and you fellow man? Why not June or the summer solstice??? Why this season with it's religious connotations???? Sorry, but the only reason a non-Christian or Jew would be involved in celebrating anything this time of year is for commercialism.

Of 365 days in a year would an atheist pick Dec. 25 to celebrate a family holiday????????

I have not insulted anyone in anyway. I never called their morals into question, that was you.

Again if a Jewish friend or Buddist or whatever sent me a card on their religious holiday I would accept the card in the spirit in which it was given. I would not get insulted or offended.

Because this is the season with the really bitchin' sales! Duh. LOL ;)

[hjmick]

Speaking as an Agnostic, I would not and am not the least bit offended by religious cards this time of year. I'll go one step further, Christmas is celebrated in my house, happily. Because my wife says so. :D

[manu1959]

i am not a christian...and yes....kill yourself....your entire existance insults mankind...and you are a liar..."I never tell the people hey that made me feel bad.".....bullshit read your own posts...

i never forgive there is no point....


Now I should just kill myself according to you?

How unchristian.

I am expressing that I do get offended at overtly christian cards from people who know Im not christian. For this you continue to insult me?

I never burn the cards and I display them with the others. I merely stated there is a pang of insult in me when I read them for the first time. For some reason you feel I should not be allowed to talk about this but should instead kill myself?

I never tell the people hey that made me feel bad. I read it feel the insult and then in a spirit of love and peace forgive them for the transgression they may or may not have intended. You posted this thread so I felt it was OK to talk about that pang of insult. How is it I can forgive yet you seem to find it very hard?

[Abbey Marie]

...
Sending a religious card at a time when many religions are celibrating their own sacred religions is an insult.
...


Say this with me s-l-o-w-l-y:
It's a CHRISTMAS CARD. For CHRISTMAS.

Is that clear enough?

I couldn't care less what you or any one else thinks about this or any other CHRISTMAS CARD, and if you think many Christians do, you are very, very mistaken.

[Abbey Marie]

Speaking as an Agnostic, I would not and am not the least bit offended by religious cards this time of year. I'll go one step further, Christmas is celebrated in my house, happily. Because my wife says so. :D

Tried to rep you, H, but couldn't. I'll catch you soon.

[mrg666]

Say this with me s-l-o-w-l-y:
It's a CHRISTMAS CARD. For CHRISTMAS.

Is that clear enough?

I couldn't care less what you or any one else thinks about this or any other CHRISTMAS CARD, and if you think many Christians do, you are very, very mistaken.

merry christmas every one

[shattered]

Now I should just kill myself according to you?

How unchristian.

I am expressing that I do get offended at overtly christian cards from people who know Im not christian. For this you continue to insult me?

I never burn the cards and I display them with the others. I merely stated there is a pang of insult in me when I read them for the first time. For some reason you feel I should not be allowed to talk about this but should instead kill myself?

I never tell the people hey that made me feel bad. I read it feel the insult and then in a spirit of love and peace forgive them for the transgression they may or may not have intended. You posted this thread so I felt it was OK to talk about that pang of insult. How is it I can forgive yet you seem to find it very hard?

Yes.

It's pretty freaking pathetic when one has to buy multiple types of cards, and then go through their card list, and arrange them according to what's least likely to offend the recipient.

I found it pretty pathetic that I was sitting at my table AGAIN, sifting through cards and thinking "Wait..Can I say Merry Christmas to THIS person, or must I use 'Happy Holidays', or 'Enjoy The Season'.."

I threw them all out, and sent Merry Christmas to *everyone*.

If they don't like it, f'em, and f'you, too. :D

Same concept as your "overly Christian" cards. Try just being glad someone was thinking of you enough to bother, when most people are up to their ears in things to do, and barely have time to breathe, instead of picking apart *what* was sent.

[hjmick]

Hell, I would not be insulted if someone sent me a Chanukah card. Or a Kwanzaa card. The fact that someone took the time to send me a message of good wishes is not something to be offended about.

The same goes for my Christian or Jewish or Muslim friends who say, "I'll say a prayer for you/your wife," when we're having a tough go with our oldest daughter or when my wife went in for surgery. Hey, it's not my bag, but if it works for you great. The fact that they would take the time to think of me and mine is touching and says something to me of our friendship.

Beats the hell out of them telling me I'm going to burn for all eternity.

[hjmick]

Tried to rep you, H, but couldn't. I'll catch you soon.

Thanks Abbey, but no worries, it's the thought that counts. :cool:

[gabosaurus]

What the White House should have done is replicate the Beatles' famous "butcher cover", replacing the bloody dolls and meat with American servicemen.
"Because if your kids didn't die, then the terrorists win."

[hjmick]

What the White House should have done is replicate the Beatles' famous "butcher cover", replacing the bloody dolls and meat with American servicemen.
"Because if your kids didn't die, then the terrorists win."

10...9...8...7...

[shattered]

10...9...8...7...

3..2..1.. Neg her! :D

[Abbey Marie]

Yes.

It's pretty freaking pathetic when one has to buy multiple types of cards, and then go through their card list, and arrange them according to what's least likely to offend the recipient.

I found it pretty pathetic that I was sitting at my table AGAIN, sifting through cards and thinking "Wait..Can I say Merry Christmas to THIS person, or must I use 'Happy Holidays', or 'Enjoy The Season'.."

I threw them all out, and sent Merry Christmas to *everyone*.

If they don't like it, f'em, and f'you, too. :D

Same concept as your "overly Christian" cards. Try just being glad someone was thinking of you enough to bother, when most people are up to their ears in things to do, and barely have time to breathe, instead of picking apart *what* was sent.

*Abbey raises her glass of Merlot to Shattered* :cheers2: :wine:

[truthmatters]

Yes.

It's pretty freaking pathetic when one has to buy multiple types of cards, and then go through their card list, and arrange them according to what's least likely to offend the recipient.

I found it pretty pathetic that I was sitting at my table AGAIN, sifting through cards and thinking "Wait..Can I say Merry Christmas to THIS person, or must I use 'Happy Holidays', or 'Enjoy The Season'.."

I threw them all out, and sent Merry Christmas to *everyone*.

If they don't like it, f'em, and f'you, too. :D

Same concept as your "overly Christian" cards. Try just being glad someone was thinking of you enough to bother, when most people are up to their ears in things to do, and barely have time to breathe, instead of picking apart *what* was sent.


Did you even bother to read my entire post?

Overtly is not saying merry christmas. This whole thread was about this exact subject. Overt is saying there is only one god and its my god. I answered honestly about having a pang of insult when I open such cards from people who know what I believe. It would be the same as me sending them a card that said "well you know there is no God but have a great holiday season". It would be rude of me to do so dont you think?

[Dilloduck]

Did you even bother to read my entire post?

Overtly is not saying merry christmas. This whole thread was about this exact subject. Overt is saying there is only one god and its my god. I answered honestly about having a pang of insult when I open such cards from people who know what I believe. It would be the same as me sending them a card that said "well you know there is no God but have a great holiday season". It would be rude of me to do so dont you think?

Please tell me if there is a specific day of the year that you celebrate by having an extra special pity party so I won't forget to help you celebrate it.
I'm feeling a "pang" of rudeness so here's a little jingle to keep you in the "spirit" (oops can I say that?) until you provide me with the official day to recognize those who are "victims" of everything (to include Christian postal attacks.)

Nobody likes me, everybody hates me,
Guess I'll go eat worms,
Long, thin, slimy ones; Short, fat, juicy ones,
Itsy, bitsy, fuzzy wuzzy worms.

Down goes the first one, down goes the second one,
Oh how they wiggle and squirm.
Up comes the first one, up comes the second one,
Oh how they wiggle and squirm.

[Trigg]

Did you even bother to read my entire post?

Overtly is not saying merry christmas. This whole thread was about this exact subject. Overt is saying there is only one god and its my god. I answered honestly about having a pang of insult when I open such cards from people who know what I believe. It would be the same as me sending them a card that said "well you know there is no God but have a great holiday season". It would be rude of me to do so dont you think?

Look, stay with me here.

People know you celebrate Christmas, a religious holiday, they assume your Christian.

If you told everyone you celebrate Hannuka, people would assume your Jewish.

See the point?????????

Do you ever take the time to consider that by using this season for purely commercialism you are insulting the reason for this time of year??? You are atheist, why are you trying to hyjack my holiday???? Do you do the same with other religions or just Christian?? Do you consider celebrating Hannuka without being Jewish insulting to Jews?????

By the way, as I pointed out earlier. As for the one god line. Jews believe in God, just not Jesus, so it's one God to them also. Muslims believe in Allah, or one God. What religion is it insulting to to mention ONE God?????? He didn't mention Jesus.

[nevadamedic]

What the White House should have done is replicate the Beatles' famous "butcher cover", replacing the bloody dolls and meat with American servicemen.
"Because if your kids didn't die, then the terrorists win."

Your a sick one.

[truthmatters]

Look, stay with me here.

People know you celebrate Christmas, a religious holiday, they assume your Christian.

If you told everyone you celebrate Hannuka, people would assume your Jewish.

See the point?????????

Do you ever take the time to consider that by using this season for purely commercialism you are insulting the reason for this time of year??? You are atheist, why are you trying to hyjack my holiday???? Do you do the same with other religions or just Christian?? Do you consider celebrating Hannuka without being Jewish insulting to Jews?????

By the way, as I pointed out earlier. As for the one god line. Jews believe in God, just not Jesus, so it's one God to them also. Muslims believe in Allah, or one God. What religion is it insulting to to mention ONE God?????? He didn't mention Jesus.



There you go again saying athiests have no right to celebrate christmas as they wish.


I have told you over and over again it is not a date and celebration that you OWN. where did the tree come from? where did the yule log come from? The big feast ? These are all traditions which predate christianity.

America was founded on the freedom to whorship as we like. I never said they should not send the cards, I never condemed them for doing so and I never even sugested they did it on purpose.

I merely stated that I do feel a pang of insult. I let it go and forgive. I said that already didnt I.

Maybe you should remember the tennents of your own religion and think about the things you said like me killing myself and that I have no right to celebrate as I wish.

I think you are a good person Trig and I dont think you intended to insult me but I really dont think you have a right to tell me how or when to celebrate and what Im allowed to get offended by.

[Nukeman]

There you go again saying athiests have no right to celebrate christmas as they wish.


I have told you over and over again it is not a date and celebration that you OWN. where did the tree come from? where did the yule log come from? The big feast ? These are all traditions which predate christianity.

America was founded on the freedom to whorship as we like. I never said they should not send the cards, I never condemed them for doing so and I never even sugested they did it on purpose.

I merely stated that I do feel a pang of insult. I let it go and forgive. I said that already didnt I.

Maybe you should remember the tennents of your own religion and think about the things you said like me killing myself and that I have no right to celebrate as I wish.

I think you are a good person Trig and I dont think you intended to insult me but I really dont think you have a right to tell me how or when to celebrate and what Im allowed to get offended by. Just as you dont have the right to tell anyone else what they can and cant send to others on Christmas.....

As an athiest YOU dont worship anything to worship a diety means you have to BELIEVE in one!!!!

Trigg never said you couldnt celebrate but was curious as to why you feel the need to utilize the 25th of December....

Why again do you CELEBRATE Christmas!!!!!


Also Trigg didn't say the other part that was another person all together. ONCE AGAIN TRY READING COMPRENHENSION!!!!! PLEASE!!!!

[Nukeman]

There you go again saying athiests have no right to celebrate christmas as they wish.
.

Why are you calling what you celebrate Christmas instead of "Happy festivist" or Haunnaka for that matter.

You are NOT celebrating Christs Mass you are celebrating getting and giving gifts that is all.......

At least answer this question, it's been put to you numerous times.

Again, just cause I feel like it. WHY CALL IT CHRISTMAS instead of Hannuaka or festivist (Sienfield-festivist for the rest of us)

[red states rule]

There you go again saying athiests have no right to celebrate christmas as they wish.


I have told you over and over again it is not a date and celebration that you OWN. where did the tree come from? where did the yule log come from? The big feast ? These are all traditions which predate christianity.

America was founded on the freedom to whorship as we like. I never said they should not send the cards, I never condemed them for doing so and I never even sugested they did it on purpose.

I merely stated that I do feel a pang of insult. I let it go and forgive. I said that already didnt I.

Maybe you should remember the tennents of your own religion and think about the things you said like me killing myself and that I have no right to celebrate as I wish.

I think you are a good person Trig and I dont think you intended to insult me but I really dont think you have a right to tell me how or when to celebrate and what Im allowed to get offended by.


Every year the kook left continues their war on Christmas - and evey year they deny it

If you do not want to celebrate Christmas fine - don't. But please shut the hell up and let the rest of us enjoy our Christmas

[truthmatters]

Why are yo calling what you celebrate Christmas instead of "Happy festivist" or haunnakam for that matter.

You are NOT celebrating Christs Mass you are celebrating getting and giving gifts that is all.......

Why not call it christmas?

Do I now lose the right to call it what I chose because of my beliefs?

Dont you see that me continuing to call it christams is honoring you and your religion?

I have family who are christians and they dont mind me calling it christmas so why should you?

You seem to just want to hate me just because I believe differently than you do?

How does it insult you for me to call it christmas too. I have stated may times that I believe Jesus was a great philosopher and admire him yet somehow christians OWN him and Im not supposed to ever mention him?

How far from Jesus' teaching have so many christians strayed?

[Nukeman]

Why not call it christmas?



Dont you see that me continuing to call it christams is honoring you and your religion?


You seem to just want to hate me just because I believe differently than you do?

How does it insult you for me to call it christmas too. I have stated may times that I believe Jesus was a great philosopher and admire him yet somehow christians OWN him and Im not supposed to ever mention him?

How far from Jesus' teaching have so many christians strayed?

Damn, answer a question once in a while. Why not call it Hannuka? Would you agree that calling your "celebration" that would insult Jews???????

I don't hate you, you seem to have difficulty understanding the difference between debate and hatred. You are on a computer I have better things to do than hate people I don't know. I do think you pretend to be f-ing stupid.

It does not honor my religion for you to use it as a day to celebrate getting stuff. Call you holiday getting stuff day or winter solstice or winter festival. But when you call it Christmas you bring up connotations of the birth of Jesus Christ.

HOW IS THIS SO HARD FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND?????

Answer the the bolded question

[Joan]

Please keep in mind that you cannot spell Christmas without "CHRIST". Years ago when my kids were little we went to Church on Christmas day. It was a young priest, and he brought out a big birthday cake and had all the children " come up front and sing "Happy Birthday" to Jesus. It brought the lesson home to them, and we continued that tradition for quite a few years!!

[truthmatters]

Hey Joan , Merry Christmas.

It doesnt seem to matter to these people that I consider Jesus one of the worlds great philosophers. They just dont want me to put up a tree gather my family (which includes christians) for a couple of days and have a meal and give gifts to my little neices and nephews. I really dont understand why they think it is wrong for me to do this and call it what every other person in this country no matter what their belief calls this holiday.

I suspect they just hate me for my beliefs.

I have been told over and over again I only celebrate it for commercialism.
I have even been told I should kill myself.
I think they believe no one but christians have any decent moral values.

Hope you and yours have a great one.

TM

[shattered]

Hey Joan , Merry Christmas.

It doesnt seem to matter to these people that I consider Jesus one of the worlds great philosophers. They just dont want me to put up a tree gather my family (which includes christians) for a couple of days and have a meal and give gifts to my little neices and nephews. I really dont understand why they think it is wrong for me to do this and call it what every other person in this country no matter what their belief calls this holiday.

I suspect they just hate me for my beliefs.

I have been told over and over again I only celebrate it for commercialism.
I have even been told I should kill myself.
I think they believe no one but christians have any decent moral values.

Hope you and yours have a great one.

TM


So why not do it on Dec. 15th?

Nobody hates you for your beliefs - they hate you for your condescending bullshit attitude and your "offense" when someone takes the time out of their day to send you a card, and instead of being grateful, or just smiling, you actually have the nerve to get offended.

When you post shit like that, expect to have it flung back at you.

[truthmatters]

Shattered I have not called names , I have tried to use reason and even kindness in this thread.

You call it condesending.

I have posted what I believe and why.

Its you who hate not me.

Does the entire country get Dec 15th off?

Do I have to celebrate with my family (which includes christians) on a different day in your mind for some reason?

The Christians blanketed over the pagen celebrations with their religion and that was OK but Im not allowed to celebrate with my family on "your" holiday?

I really wish you people would walk the walk of Jesus instead of JUST talking the talk.

I expressed that I had a pang of insult at an overtly christian sentiment in holiday cards when people knew what I believed. I told the truth. I have since been told by people who claim to be christians that I should kill myself, that Im hated ,that I have no right to celebrate what I whish to celebrate and that I only whorship comsumerism.

I stated I imediately forgive the person who sent me the card and place it with the rest of the cards.

Funny I have yet to see any forgivenace from the people who claim to follow Jesus?

[Trigg]

I have posted what I believe and why.Yes you've posted your an Atheist

Its you who hate not me. NO ONE HAS SAID THEY HATED YOU, YOUR THE ONE STATING THAT

Does the entire country get Dec 15th off?

Do I have to celebrate with my family (which includes christians) on a different day in your mind for some reason? Why do you insist on calling what you celebrate Christmas, when you are not celebrating Jesus birth you are just celebrating getting together, AGAIN: why not call what you are doing Hannuka or would that be insulting to Jews?

The Christians blanketed over the pagen celebrations with their religion and that was OK but Im not allowed to celebrate with my family on "your" holiday?The Christans included some of the pegan practices, but once again the pegans were still celebrating a higher being their Gods. Christmas has always been about the Jesus birth


I expressed that I had a pang of insult at an overtly christian sentiment in holiday cards when people knew what I believed. I told the truth. Christmas is a celebration of Jesus birth. Of course it is overtly Christian. Tell people you don't celebrate Christmas and they wont send you cards. Tell them you use this as a family get-together and then DON"T SEND OUT CARDS AT THIS TIME OF YEAR. This will clear up any confusion, or start accepting cards in the spirit they are given.

I stated I imediately forgive the person who sent me the card and place it with the rest of the cards. Why do you send out Christmas cards when you don't believe in the season? That is probably very confusing to people, as I said before if someone sent me a Hannuka card I would assume they are Jewish. You are purposfully confusing people and then getting insulted.

Funny I have yet to see any forgivenace from the people who claim to follow Jesus?

Funny I still don't see an answer to my question. WHY DO YOU CALL YOUR GET TOGETHER CHRISTMAS? WHY NOT CALL IT HANNUKA OR FESTIVAS OR FAMILY GET-TOGETHER TIME?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????

[shattered]

Shattered I have not called names , I have tried to use reason and even kindness in this thread.

You call it condesending.

I have posted what I believe and why.

Its you who hate not me.

Does the entire country get Dec 15th off?

Do I have to celebrate with my family (which includes christians) on a different day in your mind for some reason?

The Christians blanketed over the pagen celebrations with their religion and that was OK but Im not allowed to celebrate with my family on "your" holiday?

I really wish you people would walk the walk of Jesus instead of JUST talking the talk.

I expressed that I had a pang of insult at an overtly christian sentiment in holiday cards when people knew what I believed. I told the truth. I have since been told by people who claim to be christians that I should kill myself, that Im hated ,that I have no right to celebrate what I whish to celebrate and that I only whorship comsumerism.

I stated I imediately forgive the person who sent me the card and place it with the rest of the cards.

Funny I have yet to see any forgivenace from the people who claim to follow Jesus?

I don't hate anyone for their beliefs - nor am I the least bit "Christian". Frankly, *I* like Christmas for the glitz, pretty lights, excitement on the faces of little kids, etc. Practically my entire family IS Christian, however, and *that's* why I celebrate it on Dec. 24th AND Dec. 25th - because it's important to THEM, and that matters more to ME than my lack of religious faith..

I simply think you're being an ass for your general attitude toward someone that bothered to include you in their card list at all.

[hjmick]

I don't hate anyone for their beliefs - nor am I the least bit "Christian". Frankly, *I* like Christmas for the glitz, pretty lights, excitement on the faces of little kids, etc. Practically my entire family IS Christian, however, and *that's* why I celebrate it on Dec. 24th AND Dec. 25th - because it's important to THEM, and that matters more to ME than my lack of religious faith..

I simply think you're being an ass for your general attitude toward someone that bothered to include you in their card list at all.

Spot on, pretty much my reasoning for celebrating. I told my wife, as far as I'm concerned we could exchange gifts on April 1st. She, however loves the holiday and, while she does not go to church, she does consider herself a Christian.

I'd rep you, but I need to spread some around first.

[shattered]

Spot on, pretty much my reasoning for celebrating. I told my wife, as far as I'm concerned we could exchange gifts on April 1st. She, however loves the holiday and, while she does not go to church, she does consider herself a Christian.

I'd rep you, but I need to spread some around first.

Sorry, but I got married on April 1st - find yer own holiday. :D

[hjmick]

Sorry, but I got married on April 1st - find yer own holiday. :D

Nah, we'll just celebrate "Shattereday."

[nevadamedic]

Nah, we'll just celebrate "Shattereday."

That's not even a funny thought. Please don't feed her super ego anymore then it already is.

[shattered]

That's not even a funny thought. Please don't feed her super ego anymore then it already is.

At least I don't get kicked out of threads for being a pathetic waste of bandwidth. :lol:

[nevadamedic]

At least I don't get kicked out of threads for being a pathetic waste of bandwidth. :lol:

Nope, your just a waste of space. It also seems like you are talking about staff decisions in a thread which is clearly against the rules.

[shattered]

Nope, your just a waste of space. It also seems like you are talking about staff decisions in a thread which is clearly against the rules.

Ain't questioning them - in fact, agree wholeheartedly with them.. but report it if you wish, cupcake. :D

[Dilloduck]

You seem to just want to hate me just because I believe differently than you do?



It appears to me that you find the most unpopular stand that you can come up with and support it soley for the sake of being victimized. Do you ever laugh ? ( "at other people" doesn't count )

[truthmatters]

Funny I still don't see an answer to my question. WHY DO YOU CALL YOUR GET TOGETHER CHRISTMAS? WHY NOT CALL IT HANNUKA OR FESTIVAS OR FAMILY GET-TOGETHER TIME?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????

Trig its what everyone calls it because this is a mostly christian nation. I have christian members in my family. I have said this over and over again.

You and other christians would just maliagn me if I did anyway.

The funny thing is I continue to call it Christmas in part because I dont want to offend anyone.

You and others here seem to think its your Right to offend me because I dont believe the same thing you guys do.

One particually silly posted even sugested Im just saying I am an athiest to make him mad.


Why are so many of you having so much trouble with the idea that sending an overtly religious card to someone who has differing beliefs when you know they do is insulting.

If a Muslim sent you a christmas card that said Muhamed was the only savior you would feel a little insulted and you know you would.


I dont believe in god. I tried to believe in god because that was what our society tells us to do. I could not find a way to believe in it. I made a choice not to be aliar for the rest of my life. I tolerate all kinds of christians talkig God and religion to me and I am very nice about it. I rarely ever even tell someone what I believe. I do it on the internets because this is a place for open discussion. I am being honest with you people and it seems there is good reason for non christians to feel hated in this country from the range of response I have recieved form the people who profess to believe in a religion which has a core belief of forgivenace and love.

[manu1959]

The funny thing is I continue to call it Christmas in part because I dont want to offend anyone.



yet you continue to bitch and moan and whine when anyone else does.....

[Dilloduck]

Trig its what everyone calls it because this is a mostly christian nation. I have christian members in my family. I have said this over and over again.

You and other christians would just maliagn me if I did anyway.

The funny thing is I continue to call it Christmas in part because I dont want to offend anyone.

You and others here seem to think its your Right to offend me because I dont believe the same thing you guys do.

One particually silly posted even sugested Im just saying I am an athiest to make him mad.


Why are so many of you having so much trouble with the idea that sending an overtly religious card to someone who has differing beliefs when you know they do is insulting.

If a Muslim sent you a christmas card that said Muhamed was the only savior you would feel a little insulted and you know you would.


I dont believe in god. I tried to believe in god because that was what our society tells us to do. I could not find a way to believe in it. I made a choice not to be aliar for the rest of my life. I tolerate all kinds of christians talkig God and religion to me and I am very nice about it. I rarely ever even tell someone what I believe. I do it on the internets because this is a place for open discussion. I am being honest with you people and it seems there is good reason for non christians to feel hated in this country from the range of response I have recieved form the people who profess to believe in a religion which has a core belief of forgivenace and love.

nice plan----piss off Christians and call them hypocrites is they don't respond with some loving phrase of fogiveness and acceptance. Did you already give up on your "do what KANT says" system of morality ?

[truthmatters]

If me pointing our you are not following the tennents of your own religion only pisses you off instead of making you think then you are even more contorted in your beliefs than I thought.

[truthmatters]

yet you continue to bitch and moan and whine when anyone else does.....


Where the Hell did you get this from?




Christmas is what everyone calls it because this is a mostly christian nation. I have christian members in my family. I have said this over and over again.

You and other christians would just maliagn me if I did anyway.

The funny thing is I continue to call it Christmas in part because I dont want to offend anyone.

You and others here seem to think its your Right to offend me because I dont believe the same thing you guys do.

One particually silly posted even sugested Im just saying I am an athiest to make him mad.


Why are so many of you having so much trouble with the idea that sending an overtly religious card to someone who has differing beliefs when you know they do is insulting.

If a Muslim sent you a christmas card that said Muhamed was the only savior you would feel a little insulted and you know you would.


I dont believe in god. I tried to believe in god because that was what our society tells us to do. I could not find a way to believe in it. I made a choice not to be aliar for the rest of my life. I tolerate all kinds of christians talkig God and religion to me and I am very nice about it. I rarely ever even tell someone what I believe. I do it on the internets because this is a place for open discussion. I am being honest with you people and it seems there is good reason for non christians to feel hated in this country from the range of response I have recieved form the people who profess to believe in a religion which has a core belief of forgivenace and love.

[Dilloduck]

If me pointing our you are not following the tennents of your own religion only pisses you off instead of making you think then you are even more contorted in your beliefs than I thought.

I think most here know that they arent perfect---is that a reason to not even try?

[manu1959]

you ask that question then malign christians for sending christmas cards celebrating a christian holiday.....that is where.....

muslim christmas cards....you are a hoot....

you must be a shit load of fun at easter.....


Where the Hell did you get this from?

Christmas is what everyone calls it because this is a mostly christian nation. I have christian members in my family. I have said this over and over again.

You and other christians would just maliagn me if I did anyway.

The funny thing is I continue to call it Christmas in part because I dont want to offend anyone.

You and others here seem to think its your Right to offend me because I dont believe the same thing you guys do.

One particually silly posted even sugested Im just saying I am an athiest to make him mad.

Why are so many of you having so much trouble with the idea that sending an overtly religious card to someone who has differing beliefs when you know they do is insulting.

If a Muslim sent you a christmas card that said Muhamed was the only savior you would feel a little insulted and you know you would.

I dont believe in god. I tried to believe in god because that was what our society tells us to do. I could not find a way to believe in it. I made a choice not to be aliar for the rest of my life. I tolerate all kinds of christians talkig God and religion to me and I am very nice about it. I rarely ever even tell someone what I believe. I do it on the internets because this is a place for open discussion. I am being honest with you people and it seems there is good reason for non christians to feel hated in this country from the range of response I have recieved form the people who profess to believe in a religion which has a core belief of forgivenace and love.

[shattered]

What is it with you guys and beating your heads against brick walls? She plays the hurt victim so you'll pay attention to her, so she can tell you what sucky and intolerant humans you are.

[manu1959]

If me pointing our you are not following the tennents of your own religion only pisses you off instead of making you think then you are even more contorted in your beliefs than I thought.

you wouldn't know a christian belief if it nailed you to a cross......

[manu1959]

What is it with you guys and beating your heads against brick walls? She plays the hurt victim so you'll pay attention to her, so she can tell you what sucky and intolerant humans you are.

i am bored....plus i like to watch her lose arguments to herself.....

[truthmatters]

you ask that question then malign christians for sending christmas cards celebrating a christian holiday.....that is where.....

muslim christmas cards....you are a hoot....

you must be a shit load of fun at easter.....



Where did I maliagn any christians for sendig christmas cards?

Go get the quote of mine you claim does that?

It was an example to illustrate how one might be insulted at an overtly religious card which does not match your faith.

Many on here dont even think I have to right to celelbrate at all on christmas either.

[shattered]

i am bored....plus i like to watch her lose arguments to herself.....

Oh. Well, carry on then.. As long as you're not mistakenly thinking you're going to get anywhere.

[truthmatters]

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/dec2005/nf20051223_5102_db039.htm?campaign_id=rss_daily


Where am I playing the hurt victim Shattered? Think about what your chozen name means , kinda funny huh?

[manu1959]

Where did I maliagn any christians for sendig christmas cards?

Go get the quote of mine you claim does that?

It was an example to illustrate how one might be insulted at an overtly religious card which does not match your faith.

Many on here dont even think I have to right to celelbrate at all on christmas either.

so now it is ok for bush to send a christmas card with christian quotes on it to non christians.....

so what do you celebrate on the day of the birth of christ.....you don't believe in god....why celebrate the birth of his son.....seems rather odd.....

oh and post #7....

[manu1959]

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/dec2005/nf20051223_5102_db039.htm?campaign_id=rss_daily


Where am I playing the hurt victim Shattered? Think about what your chozen name means , kinda funny huh?

you don't do it all the time.........just when you are awake....

[truthmatters]

you wouldn't know a christian belief if it nailed you to a cross......

I was raised christian. I have lived in a 90% christian country all my life. You really do hate anyone who doesnt believe in your chozen faith huh?

[Dilloduck]

Where did I maliagn any christians for sendig christmas cards?

Go get the quote of mine you claim does that?

It was an example to illustrate how one might be insulted at an overtly religious card which does not match your faith.

Many on here dont even think I have to right to celelbrate at all on christmas either.

Are you going to try to deny that you did not come here and expect to piss people off?

and here is your statement
"Sending a religious card at a time when many religions are celibrating their own sacred religions is an insult."

[truthmatters]

you don't do it all the time.........just when you are awake....


cant find a quote huh?

[shattered]

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/dec2005/nf20051223_5102_db039.htm?campaign_id=rss_daily


Where am I playing the hurt victim Shattered? Think about what your chozen name means , kinda funny huh?

When you know the reason for my "chosen" name (which has NOTHING to do with crying "victim"), then you can open your mouth.. Until then, don't comment on something you know nothing of, and try to use it to help yourself win an argument..

[Dilloduck]

Are you going to try to deny that you did not come here and expect to piss people off?

and here is your statement

bump--here it is


"Sending a religious card at a time when many religions are celibrating their own sacred religions is an insult."

[manu1959]

I was raised christian. I have lived in a 90% christian country all my life. You really do hate anyone who doesnt believe in your chozen faith huh?

tell me little miss know it all....what is my faith and which church do i prctice it in......

as for you being raised a christian .... it didn't take

[manu1959]

cant find a quote huh?

post 7 .... for the second time....actually fourth time.....dillo pointed it out twice as well......


sure got quiet....

[Kathianne]

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/dec2005/nf20051223_5102_db039.htm?campaign_id=rss_daily


Where am I playing the hurt victim Shattered? Think about what your chozen name means , kinda funny huh?

Here:


Again you are helping to prove my point that you wish to insult me for my beliefs.

http://debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=169580&postcount=16


You seem to just want to hate me just because I believe differently than you do?
http://debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=170097&postcount=58

and again:


I suspect they just hate me for my beliefs.

http://debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=170116&postcount=61

and finally someone responds to your claims of victimhood:



Nobody hates you for your beliefs - they hate you for your condescending bullshit attitude and your "offense" when someone takes the time out of their day to send you a card, and instead of being grateful, or just smiling, you actually have the nerve to get offended.

When you post shit like that, expect to have it flung back at you.


http://debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=170118&postcount=62

your victim response, which besides the misspelling requests forgiveness, when no one says your beliefs are wrong, just where you decide to jump in and call victimhood:


Funny I have yet to see any forgivenace from the people who claim to follow Jesus?

http://debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=170137&postcount=63

I'm sure I could find more, but that is in this thread alone, to check the whole of the boards, well sheesh!

[Dilloduck]

Where did I maliagn any christians for sendig christmas cards?

Go get the quote of mine you claim does that?

It was an example to illustrate how one might be insulted at an overtly religious card which does not match your faith.

Many on here dont even think I have to right to celelbrate at all on christmas either.

Well--you were shown exactly where you maligned Christians. What do you have to say for yourself ?

[5stringJeff]

Where the Hell did you get this from?




Christmas is what everyone calls it because this is a mostly christian nation. I have christian members in my family. I have said this over and over again.

You and other christians would just maliagn me if I did anyway.

The funny thing is I continue to call it Christmas in part because I dont want to offend anyone.

You and others here seem to think its your Right to offend me because I dont believe the same thing you guys do.

One particually silly posted even sugested Im just saying I am an athiest to make him mad.


Why are so many of you having so much trouble with the idea that sending an overtly religious card to someone who has differing beliefs when you know they do is insulting.

If a Muslim sent you a christmas card that said Muhamed was the only savior you would feel a little insulted and you know you would.


I dont believe in god. I tried to believe in god because that was what our society tells us to do. I could not find a way to believe in it. I made a choice not to be aliar for the rest of my life. I tolerate all kinds of christians talkig God and religion to me and I am very nice about it. I rarely ever even tell someone what I believe. I do it on the internets because this is a place for open discussion. I am being honest with you people and it seems there is good reason for non christians to feel hated in this country from the range of response I have recieved form the people who profess to believe in a religion which has a core belief of forgivenace and love.

TM, you are obviously allowed to believe whatever you want, and celebrate on whatever day you want for whatever reason you want. But you should not be surprised that people are sending you religious greeting cards when you celebrate Christmas, which is a religious holiday for 90% of Americans. It is presumptuous on your part to pretend that Christmas is somehow not religious just because you are not religious.

[truthmatters]

Where did I say any of that?

I answered a thread honestly.

Why do you hate people to be honest about ehir feelings.

Let me remind you what I said.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are aware that many non christians celibrate Christams as a family holiday right?

It has deep roots in the Pagen religion.

[Kathianne]

Where did I say any of that?

I answered a thread honestly.

Why do you hate people to be honest about ehir feelings.

Let me remind you what I said.

WTF are you responding to? Funny how you leave that off, suddenly. To what are you responding to?

[Dilloduck]

WTF are you responding to? Funny how you leave that off, suddenly. To what are you responding to?

I'm guessing her need to be used and abused. Sad.

[red states rule]

I'm guessing her need to be used and abused. Sad.

Tried to rep you - but I am hitting the 24 hour rule

[glockmail]

Who cares what Babwa Wawa thinks anyway?

[Dilloduck]

Who cares what Babwa Wawa thinks anyway?

LOL damn good point-----I bet no one is chasing her down for any endorsements. :laugh2:

[AFbombloader]

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/dec2005/nf20051223_5102_db039.htm?campaign_id=rss_daily

Where does this story have relevance? You are neither French nor Muslim. You have stated that the majority of your family is Christian, so you are not a third generation athiest, like the people in the story are third generation Muslim. I don't see the connection.

AF:salute:

P.S. Merry Christmas