The 10 minute video all Americans should watch [Archive] - Debate Policy

Nukeman

12-13-2007, 01:13 PM

Couple of points I would like to make.

1 You never see anyone "actually" talking
2. very poor quality for a congressional hearing (private photography is not allowed you need a press card)
3. Why was this not on CSPAN since they film ALL congressional hearing LIVE.

could you explain how I am to belive this without any verification in any news publication, do you have any other sources or links..

Yes TM, I did watch the WHOLE video!!!!

truthmatters

12-13-2007, 01:21 PM

http://www.truthout.org/Conyersreport.pdf

You are really going to claim this is not a real tape?

How buried under your lying parties propaganda are you?

Nukeman

12-13-2007, 01:22 PM

Clinton Curtis seems to have a PERSONAL problem with Feeny, not to mention a politicle rivalry. You honostly expect us to belive that this man who has brought numurous accustations against his previous employer and Mr. Feeny is actin in everyones best interest and not just his own to get elected....

this is form your most favorite web sight for information..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clint_Curtis

In 2001, Curtis first achieved public attention for a series of allegations against his former employer, Yang Enterprises, and against Tom Feeney, who was at that time serving as a Florida state legislator and as Yang's attorney and as Yang's lobbyist for local governments.

On May 10, 2001, shortly after leaving Yang and accepting a job with the Florida Department of Transportation, Curtis reported that Yang had overbilled the FDOT and hired an illegal alien.[3] Approximately a year later, on April 1, 2002, Curtis and his supervisor were both fired, allegedly for violated FDOT policies.[4] (Although Curtis's supervisor later settled a retailiation lawsuit brought relating to her firing, Curtis reports that he did not sue because he "missed the filing deadline.")[5] During that same year, Curtis's accusations against Yang were the subject of a series of articles in the Daytona Beach News-Journal.[6]

Yang Enterprises denied Curtis's allegations, and alleged that Curtis was a disgruntled former employee. According to the St. Petersburg Times, Curtis made his initial accusations against Yang one day after attorneys for Yang Enterprises questioned whether Curtis' employment with the FDOT violated a non-compete agreement and whether Curtis had taken a confidential computer program with him when he left Yang. According to the St. Petersburg Times, "Curtis said he would not have filed complaints about Yang if the company had not harassed him."[3] Curtis denies that he stole any software from Yang Enterprises, and as of August 10, 2006, a lawsuit between Yang and Curtis was ongoing in Leon County, Florida.[5]

Ultimately, Curtis's initial allegations led to mixed results
I like the bolded part myself....

Little-Acorn

12-13-2007, 01:23 PM

And truthmutters goes down in flames yet again........ :coffee:

Nukeman

12-13-2007, 01:24 PM

http://www.truthout.org/Conyersreport.pdf

You are really going to claim this is not a real tape?

How buried under your lying parties propaganda are you?Did you do any research on the supposed "whistle blower" Clinton Curtis, or did your panties get all wet because you thought you might have a smoking gun. You really should look into the people you are propping up to "help" your crusade against republicans.....

truthmatters

12-13-2007, 01:26 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clint_Curtis

You tell me what you think is wrong with this guy?

darin

12-13-2007, 01:26 PM

She doesn't seem to care, Nuke. For her, anyone who says things that tickler her...uh...'ears' is infallible.

manu1959

12-13-2007, 01:27 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clint_Curtis

You tell me what you think is wrong with this guy?

:lol:

Nukeman

12-13-2007, 01:30 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clint_Curtis

You tell me what you think is wrong with this guy?hey moron see my previous post wit the highlighted portion!!!!!

He has a GRUDGE and a personal interst in seeing Tom Feeny kicked out of office so he can slip in. Do you honostly not see this......

truthmatters

12-13-2007, 01:31 PM

I dont see any claims here that there are any problems with the guy?

Produce what you claim?

truthmatters

12-13-2007, 01:32 PM

That is What Feeney said and he had no proof.

BTW whats Feeney doing these days?

Nukeman

12-13-2007, 01:34 PM

I dont see any claims here that there are any problems with the guy?

Produce what you claim?

From your own source and the St petersburg Times, or are they biased...

Yang Enterprises denied Curtis's allegations, and alleged that Curtis was a disgruntled former employee. According to the St. Petersburg Times, Curtis made his initial accusations against Yang one day after attorneys for Yang Enterprises questioned whether Curtis' employment with the FDOT violated a non-compete agreement and whether Curtis had taken a confidential computer program with him when he left Yang. According to the St. Petersburg Times, "Curtis said he would not have filed complaints about Yang if the company had not harassed him

truthmatters

12-13-2007, 01:34 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Feeney#Controversies

Nukeman

12-13-2007, 01:35 PM

That is What Feeney said and he had no proof.?Umm no that isnt that what the reporter said in the St. Petersburg Times

BTW whats Feeney doing these days

Dont Know!!!! Dont care!!!!

truthmatters

12-13-2007, 01:41 PM

Nukeman

12-13-2007, 01:46 PM

This is how little you care about the sanctity of our vote in this country?

One of the most corrupt congressmen in the country says this guy is disgruntled and that is enough for you?

Where did the paper say that Curtis can been disproven?

Curtis took a lie detector test and past it. All his facts check out withthe facts and the Company in question refused to ever let anyone look at their source code.

If they were so innocent and wanted to get the Facts straight why did they not produce the source code prove him wrong and sue his ass?

I know you dontare.Why do you jump up and scream conspiracy everytime a Repblican is involved yet not the other way around.

The Lie detector was administer by a PRIVATE DETECTIVE not the feds or any other organization..

This whole thing has been ALLEGATIONS only nothing has been PROVEN except in your mind. I could care less if they are Rep. or Dem if there is NO PROOF only allegations than i cant convict anyone on that especially somone who has a personal grudge..

For the record Feeny is not my rep. and never will be thats why i could care less you need to talk to the idiots in the liberal leaning Florida why they keep reelecting him.

truthmatters

12-13-2007, 01:52 PM

Nukeman

12-13-2007, 02:02 PM

It could be proven to be bullshit by simplely providing the source code for the machines.

That would end it and Curtis could be sued and shamed.

LET SOMEONE EXAMINE THE SOURCE CODE!

why do they refuse to do so???????What source code are yo talking about???

the one Curtis "supposedly wrote" or the actual source code used in the machines????

truthmatters

12-13-2007, 02:10 PM

Well they could pretty much prove it was the one Curtis wrote because it has his name on it. You see they had contract and Curtis was the one doing the work.

They cant pan off a differnt one or they would.

So why cant they release the one he wrote for them?

If its not true than it would be VERY easy to prove now wouldnt it?

Why do they refuse to release the source code on the program they used for the 2004 elelction and or this oen if they are different?

The only way to know if its a safe and fair source code is to allow someone to examine it.

Why do they refuse to do so?

darin

12-13-2007, 02:12 PM

Ronald Reagan was a lifelong republican, and he's dead. Therefore, in TM's mind, 'Republicanism leads to death!"

TM - do you honestly think if this story were accurate and meant something YOU would have to break it to us? That tinfoil-hatters like yourself would be called to further it's cause?

truthmatters

12-13-2007, 02:15 PM

darin

12-13-2007, 02:19 PM

Maybe because it's a NON-story?

manu1959

12-13-2007, 02:24 PM

So this is the first you ever heard of this story?

Its years old.

Why are you not aware of thie congressional investigation and this under oath congressional testimony?

Maybe the media ignored it for some reason?

since when has the media ever ignored a potential bloodbath....

ya know if the queen had balls she would be king....

hjmick

12-13-2007, 02:30 PM

What is anyone going to do about it if it true? Unless someone has a time machine, nothing.

Now for the $64,000 question: If the allegations are true, do you, Truthmatters, believe that Bush had prior knowledge of an effort to "steal" the election? Or was it a conspiracy devised by shadowy figures who really run the government or some such thing?

truthmatters

12-13-2007, 02:32 PM

http://www.oregonvrc.org/friedmancurtisinterview

Yeah fixed elections and election companies refusing the people the ability to look at the source code which counts the votes.

So American pays for the source code but we cant look at it to make sure it isnt cheating us?

How much do you think a company could gain by picking who got elelcted to office?

truthmatters

12-13-2007, 02:35 PM

Are you aware of who owned the election machine companies ?

Do you think the same people who lied us into war and who are responsible for many Americans deaths would shun fixing an election?

manu1959

12-13-2007, 02:41 PM

AFbombloader

12-13-2007, 02:45 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clint_Curtis

You tell me what you think is wrong with this guy?

The neutrality of this article is disputed.
Please see the discussion on the talk page.(December 2007)
Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved.

This is the first thing you seeon the page you refer to. Please try to use another website to back upclaims. Wikipedia is the worst place because it is totally unregulated. Any one of us could go and make it say what we wanted.

AF:salute:

manu1959

12-13-2007, 02:46 PM

Are you aware of who owned the election machine companies ?

Do you think the same people who lied us into war and who are responsible for many Americans deaths would shun fixing an election?

yes

you mean richard clarke and george tennet....both clinton appointees you mean them......

truthmatters

12-13-2007, 03:04 PM

source code seemed to work ok in 06.....

You seem to not understand how it works.

They can only flip a close election.
2006 was not a close enough election.

AFB , It is not the only source I gave.

manu , You make no sense.

manu1959

12-13-2007, 03:11 PM

You seem to not understand how it works.
They can only flip a close election.
2006 was not a close enough election.
AFB , It is not the only source I gave.
manu , You make no sense.

yes i know .... i am dumb you are smart only you know the truth and only you make sense ....

is it possible that it is the other way round .....

Immanuel

12-13-2007, 03:19 PM

From your own source and the St petersburg Times, or are they biased...

Well as a matter of fact, here in the Tampa Bay Area they are considered biased.

It could be proven to be bullshit by simplely providing the source code for the machines.

That would end it and Curtis could be sued and shamed.

LET SOMEONE EXAMINE THE SOURCE CODE!

why do they refuse to do so???????

Most likely because the source code is proprietary information and releasing it would cost them the business advantage that they have. In other words, the perceived cost is higher than the rewards.

He is notable chiefly for making a series of "whistleblower" allegations about his former employer and about Republican Congressman Tom Feeney, including an allegation that in 2000, Feeney and Yang Enterprises requested Curtis's assistance in a scheme to steal votes by inserting fraudulent code into touch screen voting systems.

Or, maybe the source code was never developed? His allegation says that he was contacted to perform this service. It doesn't say he did it. If he did, why doesn't he produce the source code? Surely, he has a copy of it. If he never produced it, then it is his word against theirs and maybe he is lying?

Also, you brought up some good questions here about why they don't produce the source code. What if he inserted code in the program that they knew nothing about and had not authorized it only to come out later and claim they asked him to do this? As the president of that company, I would be leary of producing that code not knowing whether or not he had hidden code in there that I didn't know about.

Immie

truthmatters

12-13-2007, 03:41 PM

yes i know .... i am dumb you are smart only you know the truth and only you make sense ....

is it possible that it is the other way round .....

Is it possible you just dont want to hear the facts that exsist because it harms the way you already see the world.

Why do you always revert back into personal attacks when I have made none and provided facts for you to examine and asked questions designed to open up conversation and discusion?

Try just examining the facts for a change.

truthmatters

12-13-2007, 03:44 PM

Well as a matter of fact, here in the Tampa Bay Area they are considered biased.

Most likely because the source code is proprietary information and releasing it would cost them the business advantage that they have. In other words, the perceived cost is higher than the rewards.

Or, maybe the source code was never developed? His allegation says that he was contacted to perform this service. It doesn't say he did it. If he did, why doesn't he produce the source code? Surely, he has a copy of it. If he never produced it, then it is his word against theirs and maybe he is lying?

Also, you brought up some good questions here about why they don't produce the source code. What if he inserted code in the program that they knew nothing about and had not authorized it only to come out later and claim they asked him to do this? As the president of that company, I would be leary of producing that code not knowing whether or not he had hidden code in there that I didn't know about.

Immie

Immy Americans paid for that source code with our tax dollars. That source code counts our votes. Our most sacred right on which democracy hinges in this country is dependent on this source code and its contents.

We have a right to know how our votes are counted to ensure it is fair.

Why do they refuse every court order to release the source code?

jimnyc

12-13-2007, 03:46 PM

* Peeks in - see more crap - FLUSHED! *

Immanuel

12-13-2007, 03:57 PM

Immy Americans paid for that source code with our tax dollars. That source code counts our votes. Our most sacred right on which democracy hinges in this country is dependent on this source code and its contents.

We have a right to know how our votes are counted to ensure it is fair.

Why do they refuse every court order to release the source code?

Maybe, as I said, they fear he put something in that code, that was unauthorized and would get them in big trouble. Or maybe they reviewed the code later and FOUND that he did put unauthorized code in there and don't know what to do now. Or maybe there is no code developed by Curtis?

Like I asked, if there is, why hasn't he produced it?

As for our having the right to see it, I agree we do but there are proper channels to getting it. Whenever the courts want this kind of thing they have to get a warrant as they should for our own protection. When a warrant is produced then Yang can deal with that in whatever manner their attornies advise.

You do believe in warrants, don't you? You support the 4th Amendment, don't you?

Immie

manu1959

12-13-2007, 03:57 PM

Is it possible you just dont want to hear the facts that exsist because it harms the way you already see the world.

Why do you always revert back into personal attacks when I have made none and provided facts for you to examine and asked questions designed to open up conversation and discusion?

Try just examining the facts for a change.

Is it possible you just dont want to hear the facts that exsist because it harms the way you already see the world.

Why do you always revert back into personal attacks when I have made none and provided facts for you to examine and asked questions designed to open up conversation and discusion?

Try just examining the facts for a change.

Trigg

12-13-2007, 03:59 PM

Immy Americans paid for that source code with our tax dollars. That source code counts our votes. Our most sacred right on which democracy hinges in this country is dependent on this source code and its contents.

We have a right to know how our votes are counted to ensure it is fair.

Why do they refuse every court order to release the source code?

Do you think that maybe if the source code were released a hacker might be able to corrupt the code and commit voter fraud in any local or federal election that uses this software.

Just because our taxes are used to develop something doesn't mean the gov. has to release it to the general public. An example: info on our stealth fighters or missle defense, Paid for with our tax dollars...they don't need to be put out there for everyone to see.

You seem to not understand how it works.

They can only flip a close election.
2006 was not a close enough election.

You really are trying to have it both ways here. YOU say the "fraud" didn't happen in 06 because they weren't close elections.....where exactly is your PROOF for this statement???? HOW exactly do you know that these were not close elections????????????????? Feel free to post election results for that area of Florida.

HOW do you know they only work in close elections??????? You seem to have a lot of inside info, maybe you are the plant??? Are you the gatekeeper??

Here go put this on maybe it will help:tinfoil:

manu1959

12-13-2007, 04:03 PM

is it possible that the owner of the source code has it in their contract with the govt. that they don't have to release it so they can protect their intellectual property rights .... thus they don't have to comply with the court order .....

nah that because you just dont want to hear the facts that exsist because it harms the way you already see the world......

truthmatters

12-13-2007, 04:23 PM

Do you think that maybe if the source code were released a hacker might be able to corrupt the code and commit voter fraud in any local or federal election that uses this software.

Just because our taxes are used to develop something doesn't mean the gov. has to release it to the general public. An example: info on our stealth fighters or missle defense, Paid for with our tax dollars...they don't need to be put out there for everyone to see.

.

You really are trying to have it both ways here. YOU say the "fraud" didn't happen in 06 because they weren't close elections.....where exactly is your PROOF for this statement???? HOW exactly do you know that these were not close elections????????????????? Feel free to post election results for that area of Florida.

HOW do you know they only work in close elections??????? You seem to have a lot of inside info, maybe you are the plant??? Are you the gatekeeper??

Here go put this on maybe it will help:tinfoil:

If you had listened to the original 10 minute video you would realise that that is how the code was constructed.

It can onlky flip a certain % of the vote. It was still a factor in the last elelction but was unable to flip many of the elelctions for congress because the difference was too wide.

You would rather call me tin foil than actually listen .

manu1959

12-13-2007, 04:26 PM

If you had listened to the original 10 minute video you would realise that that is how the code was constructed.

It can onlky flip a certain % of the vote. It was still a factor in the last elelction but was unable to flip many of the elelctions for congress because the difference was too wide.

You would rather call me tin foil than actually listen .

ok wait....you know how the code works and what it can do.....yet you need it because.....

seems you have all the facts....guilty....alert the media....

Sir Evil

12-13-2007, 04:28 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky-YXvxYbck

This man was a life long republican at the time.

WOW, now here is something fresh to talk about. :rolleyes:

Ok, the elections were rigged, they were fixed, you have been bamboozled, now what? Your country has duped you goofymatters, may be best to leave now, and go somewhere where you can feel better about yourself.

Cry me a river........

Trigg

12-13-2007, 04:30 PM

If you had listened to the original 10 minute video you would realise that that is how the code was constructed.

It can onlky flip a certain % of the vote. It was still a factor in the last elelction but was unable to flip many of the elelctions for congress because the difference was too wide.

You would rather call me tin foil than actually listen .

You mean the tape with the guy facing AWAY from the camera???? Ya, saw that video...however I don't know if he actually said what was recorded on the video. That tape could be dubed and we would never know since we can't see anyone talking.....think about it.

Prove the difference was to wide to flip the votes. Where are your numbers??? :lame2:

manu1959

12-13-2007, 04:30 PM

WOW, now here is something fresh to talk about. :rolleyes:

Ok, the elections were rigged, they were fixed, you have been bamboozled, now what? Your country has duped you goofymatters, may be best to leave now, and go somewhere where you can feel better about yourself.

Cry me a river........

they were dupped twice.....but still can't figure out how.....and if this is true why aren't the dems holding hearings and charging people with crimes....makes you wonder how inept the dems really are.....

Sir Evil

12-13-2007, 04:40 PM

they were dupped twice.....but still can't figure out how.....and if this is true why aren't the dems holding hearings and charging people with crimes....makes you wonder how inept the dems really are.....

Does it really surprise you though? However ya have to love truth for bringing this to our attention now, not like it's old news or anything.

Oh Truth, I heard that Sertes may possibly be looking for a room mate.

hjmick

12-13-2007, 04:45 PM

Does it really surprise you though? However ya have to love truth for bringing this to our attention now, not like it's old news or anything.

Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

manu1959

12-13-2007, 04:45 PM

Does it really surprise you though? However ya have to love truth for bringing this to our attention now, not like it's old news or anything.

Oh Truth, I heard that Sertes may possibly be looking for a room mate.

what would the spawn of truth and sertes ..... :puke3:

Immanuel

12-14-2007, 08:26 AM

I still want to know why TM avoids my questions.

What if the company found unauthorized code that Curtis put into the program? You assume that this guy is telling the truth, TM, because he tells you what you want to hear, but maybe he did put that code in the program unauthorized, the company later found it and now can't reveal it because it would destroy the company.

They cannot prove that they didn't request it. They know the man is a liar (this being if my scenario were correct) but now they are in a he said/she said pissing contest and the risks are too great to give in now.

It is funny how you automatically assume that a disgruntled employee is telling the truth when pointing the finger at a conservative... Curtis, Hill, Clarke. I'm curious do you automatically assume this to be true when a disgruntled employee turns on a liberal i.e. McDougal, Paul, Trulock? I highlighted Paul because I remember a thread about two months ago with a video of him in reference to Hillary's campaign. Let me see... I can't remember for sure what you said about this man... I bet you condemned the Clinton campaign when you watched the video. {smirk}

Immie

Sir Evil

12-14-2007, 10:29 AM

I still want to know why TM avoids my questions.

Immie

:laugh2:

Has hell frozen over?

lol, wanting to know why that bag of rocks avoids questions is like wanting to know why your head hurts after banging it on a brick wall.

Sir Evil

12-14-2007, 10:30 AM

what would the spawn of truth and sertes ..... :puke3:

Thats just scary!

:laugh2:

Sir Evil

12-14-2007, 10:32 AM

Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

:laugh2::laugh2:

Now that be funny!

Immanuel

12-14-2007, 10:35 AM

:laugh2:

Has hell frozen over?

lol, wanting to know why that bag of rocks avoids questions is like wanting to know why your head hurts after banging it on a brick wall.

Well, I was more or less pointing out that it had happened again. Seems to me like she does this to me all the time but then expects me to answer her questions immediately and there is at least one other liberal lady on the board who behaves the same way.

BTW: Why does my head hurt... oh nevermind, I have a headache... I will ask later. :laugh2:

Immie

Sir Evil

12-14-2007, 10:39 AM

Well, I was more or less pointing out that it had happened again. Seems to me like she does this to me all the time but then expects me to answer her questions immediately and there is at least one other liberal lady on the board who behaves the same way.

BTW: Why does my head hurt... oh nevermind, I have a headache... I will ask later. :laugh2:

Immie

:laugh2:

Well fi you are going to continue to try to have an intelligent discussion with TM keep a very large bottle of Advil on your desk.

You are not the only one Immie, she does this with just about everything she posts, and I don't think many have ever received an answer to simple questions regarding her topics.

Immanuel

12-14-2007, 10:45 AM

:laugh2:

Well fi you are going to continue to try to have an intelligent discussion with TM keep a very large bottle of Advil on your desk.

You are not the only one Immie, she does this with just about everything she posts, and I don't think many have ever received an answer to simple questions regarding her topics.

Well, to be fair, it is not really a simple question. It is speculation on my part. However, my scenario is as valid as hers.

The point is that her automatic assumption that Curtis is telling the truth is not proven. She assumes Feeney and the company are hiding something, and they may be, but it may also be that Curtis is the culprit here. But then since Feeney is a Republican and Yang is a corporation with Republican backing... well, that is proof enough for TM that Feeney and Yang are lying. ;)

Immie

Sir Evil

12-14-2007, 10:49 AM

Well, to be fair, it is not really a simple question. It is speculation on my part. However, my scenario is as valid as hers.

The point is that her automatic assumption that Curtis is telling the truth is not proven. She assumes Feeney and the company are hiding something, and they may be, but it may also be that Curtis is the culprit here. But then since Feeney is a Republican and Yang is a corporation with Republican backing... well, that is proof enough for TM that Feeney and Yang are lying. ;)

Immie

Well now that would be that you are a fair kind of person.

I'm harsh when it comes to giving a description of some, most of the time that just comes from boredom of the slightly worn 3 + year old topics that people still argue but when it comes to TM I am simply convinced the she had dropped one too many hits of blotter in her time. I just can't think of any other possible scenario unless of course she was born with brain damage.