Woman who shot Colorado church shooter was not cop or hired guard

[Little-Acorn]

One of the interesting things about the two recent mass shootings at a Colorado church and mission, is that the church in Colorado Springs where the gunman was finally stopped, did NOT have regular armed guards or police protection. In fact, it had nobody in particular, until the pastor heard that someone had shot up a church near Denver early that morning, about 60 miles north of Colorado Springs.

That morning, they got word that someone had shot several people at a mission in Arvada, CO, near Denver some six or eight hours ago, just after midnight, and had gotten away. Their big church in Colorado Springs had a branch office for that mission. So the pastor told his parishioners what had happened, and asked them if any of them could help out, just in case the gunman came their way next. And several parishioners who owned their own private weapons, volunteered to keep an eye out.

Sure enough, someone showed up at the Colo Springs church around noon and started shooting. They're still not sure if it was the same guy. Two of the people who had volunteered to bring their weapons, froze and didn't do much. A third volunteer, a woman, calmly walked toward the gunman and demanded he surrender. He fired at her, and she started shooting back, continuing until he was no longer moving.

No other innocent people got hurt, once she started shooting at the gunman.

I've heard nothing to indicate that she (or the other volunteers) had any special combat training. The only person near the shooter with combat training (a Vietnam veteran) had no gun, and so couldn't do much, though he tried to distract the gunman even though he himself was unarmed.

Far from some people's hysterical predictions that untrained people will start shooting wildly, hitting innocent bystanders, etc., the only things we saw here were armed citizens erring on the side of caution, if anything. Two people who had their weapons out, never fired a shot. The third, hurt no one but the gunman himself.

Note also, the woman's explanation for why she did not shake or panic, last line in the article.

Every church in Colorado Springs, could not have requested police presence that day "just in case" the bad guy happened to pick on them next. Springs doesn't have that many cops. But every church could ask their own concerned, armed citizens to help out, and many churches did. The bad guy didn't go to most of those... but as fate would have it, he (or someone) did go to one.

Add this one to a growing list of events where armed private citizens stopped someone from committing further murders, long before the police could have arrived.

How many people are alive today in Colorado Springs, who would have been dead if these private citizens hadn't done what was necessary to defend themselves and their fellow parishioners?

-----------------------------------------------

http://www.denverpost.com/outdoors/ci_7683781

Vet lauds female guard who felled gunman
By Kieran Nicholson
The Denver Post

Article Last Updated: 12/10/2007 04:32:06 PM MST


Guard's hands "didn't even shake" as she shot gunman

Larry Bourbonnais, a combat-tested Vietnam veteran, said it was the bravest thing he's ever seen.

Bourbonnais, who was among those shot by a gunman Sunday at New Life Church, watched as a security guard, a woman later identified as Jeanne Assam, calmly returned fire and killed the shooter.

"She just started walking toward the gunman firing the whole way," said Bourbonnais, who was shot in the arm. "She was just yelling 'Surrender,' walking and shooting the whole time."

Bourbonnais, 59, had just finished up a hamburger in the cafeteria on the sprawling church campus when he heard gunfire, he recalled.

He headed in the direction of the shots as frightened people ran past him looking to escape to safety.

"Where's the shooter? Where's the shooter?" Bourbonnais kept yelling, he recalled.

Near an entryway in the church, Bourbonnais came upon the gunman and an armed male church security guard who was there with his gun drawn but not firing, he said.

Bourbonnais said he pleaded with the armed guard to give him his weapon.

"Give me your handgun. I've been in combat, and I'm going to take this guy out," Bourbonnais recalled telling the guard. "He kept yelling, 'Get behind me! Get behind me!' He wouldn't hand me his weapon, but he wouldn't do anything."

There was an additional armed security guard there, another man, who also didn't fire, Bourbonnais said.

Bourbonnais yelled at the gunman to draw his attention, he said.

"First, I called him 'Coward' then I called him 'S---head' " Bourbonnais said. "I probably shouldn't have been saying that in church."

That's when the shooter pointed one of his guns at Bourbonnais and fired, he said.

Bourbonnais ducked behind a hollow, decorative pillar and was hit in the arm by a bullet and fragments of the pillar.

At about that moment, Assam, 42, turned a corner with a drawn handgun, walked toward the gunman and yelled "Surrender!" Bourbonnais said.

The gunman pointed a handgun at Assam and fired three shots, Bourbonnais said. She returned fire and just kept walking toward the gunman pressing off round after round.

After the gunman went down, Bourbonnais asked the Assam, a volunteer security guard with the church, how she remained so calm and focused.

Bourbonnais said she replied:

"I was asking the Holy Spirit to guide me the entire time."

[Little-Acorn]

I just found another article that said the woman, who was a regular member of the congregation of that church, did have law enforcement experience, and sometimes volunteered as a guard for the church. No word on whether the others who had guns at the scene but held their fire, had such experience.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/14817480/detail.html

So we have a situation where armed citizens stopped the murderer without causing any innocent deaths or injuries. Do you think a potential mass shooter would want to do his thing at a place like that, where three (or more) people like that could be waiting for him? How will he know that some will hold fire and some won't? Pretty discouraging if you ask me.

Recall also that when someone started shooting people at Pearl High School in Mississippi, the school's vice principal DID have a gun. But since the federal "Gun free school zone" act was still in effect, banning guns within a thousand feet of the school, the vice principal had left the gun locked in his car trunk, and carefully parked the car more than a quarter mile away. He ran all the way to the car, got the gun, ran all the way back, and met the killer as he was leaving the school on his way to Pearl Jr. High nearby. The vice Principal pointed the gun at the killer, and the killer surrendered without the VP having to fire a shot.

The principal was careful not to violate the law... but the law didn't seem to have much effect on the killer. If that law hadn't been on the books, would the killer have acted any differently? Probably not. But the vice principal would not have had to run a half-mile round trip before stopping the killer. Would there have been fewer people dead and injured if that law hadn't been on the books?

You tell me.

P.S. I guess the vice principal DID violate the law, didn't he? When he ran to get his gun and brought it back to stop the murderer, he brought a gun within 1,000 feet of his school.

To my knowledge, the police didn't charge him with the violation.

[Kathianne]

I just found another article that said the woman, who was a regular member of the congregation of that church, did have law enforcement experience, and sometimes volunteered as a guard for the church. No word on whether the others who had guns at the scene but held their fire, had such experience.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/14817480/detail.html

So we have a situation where armed citizens stopped the murderer without causing any innocent deaths or injuries. Do you think a potential mass shooter would want to do his thing at a place like that, where three (or more) people like that could be waiting for him? How will he know that some will hold fire and some won't? Pretty discouraging if you ask me.

Recall also that when someone started shooting people at Pearl High School in Mississippi, the school's vice principal DID have a gun. But since the federal "Gun free school zone" act was still in effect, banning guns within a thousand feet of the school, the vice principal had left the gun locked in his car trunk, and carefully parked the car more than a quarter mile away. He ran all the way to the car, got the gun, ran all the way back, and met the killer as he was leaving the school on his way to Pearl Jr. High nearby. The vice Principal pointed the gun at the killer, and the killer surrendered without the VP having to fire a shot.

The principal was careful not to violate the law... but the law didn't seem to have much effect on the killer. If that law hadn't been on the books, would the killer have acted any differently? Probably not. But the vice principal would not have had to run a half-mile round trip before stopping the killer. Would there have been fewer people dead and injured if that law hadn't been on the books?

You tell me.

P.S. I guess the vice principal DID violate the law, didn't he? When he ran to get his gun and brought it back to stop the murderer, he brought a gun within 1,000 feet of his school.

To my knowledge, the police didn't charge him with the violation.

I was reading that it wasn't a guard all day, glad to hear it. The church was a 'mega church' several thousand people with multiple buildings.

[Little-Acorn]

An interesting look at that vice principal and the Pearl, Mississippi killings, can be found here: http://www.davekopel.com/2A/OthWr/principal&gun.htm

But the lady who stopped the shooter at the Colorad Springs church, is absolutely a hero. She could esily have been killed, and she knew it. The shooter took at least one shot directly at her, and missed, thank God. She kept her cool and kept squeezing off her own shots until there was nothing left to shoot at. This despite knowing she might die at any moment.

The Vienam vet with no gun, did pretty well too with what he had: nothing but a loud voice. But he may have distracted the killer enough to save other people, long enough for the armed lady to take him out.

[Gadget (fmr Marine)]

An interesting look at that vice principal and the Pearl, Mississippi killings, can be found here: http://www.davekopel.com/2A/OthWr/principal&gun.htm

But the lady who stopped the shooter at the Colorad Springs church, is absolutely a hero. She could esily have been killed, and she knew it. The shooter took at least one shot directly at her, and missed, thank God. She kept her cool and kept squeezing off her own shots until there was nothing left to shoot at. This despite knowing she might die at any moment.

The Vienam vet with no gun, did pretty well too with what he had: nothing but a loud voice. But he may have distracted the killer enough to save other people, long enough for the armed lady to take him out.

If I am not mistaken the woman is a former cop from MN (I think I may have even met her before, when I lived there) Let's see if any of the MN contingent pipe in with info they might have.,

[LiberalNation]

Yeah new says former cop and the gunman killed himself. She did shoot him a few times but the shotgun blast he gave himself was what killed him.

[Hobbit]

Yeah new says former cop and the gunman killed himself. She did shoot him a few times but the shotgun blast he gave himself was what killed him.

According to the report I heard, he still had several thousand rounds of unspent ammunition. I'm pretty sure that if she hadn't shot him, he would have used it all. Maybe she didn't fire the lethal bullet, but she deserves all honor for the take down.

[Little-Acorn]

According to the report I heard, he still had several thousand rounds of unspent ammunition. I'm pretty sure that if she hadn't shot him, he would have used it all. Maybe she didn't fire the lethal bullet, but she deserves all honor for the take down.

Does anybody think he would have killed himself right at that moment if no one had been shooting at him? The woman unquestionably saved lives, maybe dozens of lives.

BTW, ummm... "he had several thousand" rounds? On him? Do you have any idea how much that would weigh? That would be a load even if it was .22LR. Sanity check needed here......

Anybody hear what kind of gun he had? Early reports said he had "a rifle" at the Co Springs church, and a handgun at the Arvada mission. Now they're saying he killed himself with a shotgun at the Springs church. Did he have two long guns there?

Or could the reporting be from a typical "journalist" who didn't know, or maybe didn't care, about the difference between a rifle and a shotgun, and thought no one else would care either?

[remie]

According to the report I heard, he still had several thousand rounds of unspent ammunition. I'm pretty sure that if she hadn't shot him, he would have used it all. Maybe she didn't fire the lethal bullet, but she deserves all honor for the take down.

My hats sure off to her.

[KitchenKitten99]

If I am not mistaken the woman is a former cop from MN (I think I may have even met her before, when I lived there) Let's see if any of the MN contingent pipe in with info they might have.,
'Tis true.

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_7684728

...Sgt. Jess Garcia III, the public-information officer for the Minneapolis Police Department, said Assam left his police department in the late 1990s.

He said during her time there she worked in North Minneapolis, the busiest crime area of the city, as well as in downtown Minneapolis.

"Some of the training she received here apparently helped her," Garcia said. "She did a great job."

He said he knew her during her time in Minneapolis.

"I thought she had a great personality and always got along with everybody," Garcia said.

[waterrescuedude2000]

She did an awesome job and who knows how many lives she saved. Thats why more people should get a Concealed Weapons Permit and carry like I do. I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

[red states rule]

She did an awesome job and who knows how many lives she saved. Thats why more people should get a Concealed Weapons Permit and carry like I do. I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

There are some who have an issue with her


Guns Don't Kill People...Christians Do
The meek shall inherit the earth. Turn the other cheek. Do unto others. Love will keep us together. These are more than just Captain & Tennille hits. They are words torn from the pages of the Bible - words that self-described "Christians" claim to live by, and words that were conveniently forgotten when a Right-Wing Evangelical fascist gunned down an emotionally distraught man in a Colorado Springs Megachurch last weekend. Colorado Springs is only 823 miles from the George Bush Intercontinental Airport.

"I was praying to God that He direct me," the proselytizing assassin Jeanne Assam confessed to reporters today. "God made me strong."

How much easier it is to murder someone in cold blood when you have God on your side. It's the same mentality that encouraged armed Christians to slaughter 4,000 inner city blacks in a little place called Jonestown, just 6,548 miles from the George Bush Intercontinental Airport. It's the same religious lunacy that sparked the Holy Crusades, fueled the Spanish Inquisition, justified the slaughter of over 8 million indigenous Americans, and kept Touched by an Angel on the air for nine whole seasons.

Christians are supposed to turn their swords into plowshares, but they have instead fused their faith with the NRA and the GOP to create an American Taliban full of gun-toting Bible freaks who quote scripture and open fire on anyone who proudly expresses his burning hatred for the Christian religion. It's only a matter of time before Assam and her fellow jackboots start going around door-to-door, killing any liberal democrat they can find while Shrub watches approvingly from his stolen throne.

Was the man that Assam murdered mentally disturbed? Perhaps. Did he hate Christians? Who Doesn't? But did he deserve to be executed by a militant Jesus freak? Absolutely not. In a perfect world, Assam would be locked up instead of lionized. Unfortunately, she has about as much of a chance of being brought up on charges as I have of walking on the moon.

The moon is approximately 238,857 miles from the George Bush Intercontinental Airport.

http://blamebush.typepad.com/blamebush/2007/12/guns-dont-kill.html

[diuretic]

For crying out loud - what a load of absolute rubbish.

[Lazarus]

There are some who have an issue with her
http://blamebush.typepad.com/blamebush/2007/12/guns-dont-kill.html

"I was praying to God that He direct me," the proselytizing assassin Jeanne Assam confessed to reporters today. "God made me strong."



Not to defend ( or ridicule ) your source, but I did find this " strength from God " to be a tad bit much, especially in light of this :

"Where's the shooter? Where's the shooter?" Bourbonnais kept yelling, he recalled.

Near an entryway in the church, Bourbonnais came upon the gunman and an armed male church security guard who was there with his gun drawn but not firing, he said.

Bourbonnais said he pleaded with the armed guard to give him his weapon.

"Give me your handgun. I've been in combat, and I'm going to take this guy out," Bourbonnais recalled telling the guard. "He kept yelling, 'Get behind me! Get behind me!' He wouldn't hand me his weapon, but he wouldn't do anything."

There was an additional armed security guard there, another man, who also didn't fire, Bourbonnais said.

Did God not see fit to grant these other security guards the strength ?
Or, more accurately, was Jeanne Assams' training and proficiency with her sidearm the difference ?

[diuretic]

Of course it was her training and experience that allowed her to respond in the appropriate manner - that's what training seeks to instil in someone and it's what experience reinforces.

That she chose to give the credit to God could be down to many reasons and I won't speculate on them. But that's her business. But the blogger flogging her because she made that claim is ridiculous. What she did was carry out a series of actions for which she will be judged, not by God, but by the law. Her justification for her actions will be based on necessity. If the woman faces a court (and I'm sure she won't) and says, "God guided my hand", then good luck to her but her lawyer should get that out of her head immediately because "God guided my hand" (or whatever colourful phrase she might use) isn't going to work. I can't see a court in Colo. as one has in India recently issuing a subpoena to God to appear and testify. Just a thought, would He be asked to given sworn evidence??? But I digress.

I'm not a believer but that blog is trash, it's devoid of logic and argument.

[red states rule]

Not to defend ( or ridicule ) your source, but I did find this " strength from God " to be a tad bit much, especially in light of this :


Did God not see fit to grant these other security guards the strength ?
Or, more accurately, was Jeanne Assams' training and proficiency with her sidearm the difference ?

I do enjoy reading how the left reacts when someone thanks God for their successes. For some reason, the far left wants to remove all references of God from the public view - and they do snicker when someone speaks penly about their Christian faith (of course the far left does respect other Religions)

As far as your question - how about both?

[red states rule]

Here is a great example of a moonbat liberal melting down over a Religion. This was last Sunday, and the liberal media ignored this rant

Larry O'Donnell's Latest Rant: Mormonism 'Demented, Ridiculous'
By Mark Finkelstein | December 8, 2007 - 10:57 ET

Lawrence O'Donnell, already infamous for his in-your-face rant at John O'Neill of the Swiftboat Veterans, is at it again. This time, the object of O'Donnell's obloquy is Mitt Romney, and in particular his Mormon religion. Appearing on last night's McLaughlin group, O'Donnell indulged in an angry, protracted condemnation of Mormonism.

"This was the worst political speech of my lifetime. Because this man stood there and said to you "this is the faith of my fathers." And you, and none of these commentators who liked this speech realized that the faith of his fathers is a racist faith. As of 1978 it was an officially racist faith, and for political convenience in 1978 it switched. And it said "OK, black people can be in this church." He believes, if he believes the faith of his fathers, that black people are black because in heaven they turned away from God, in this demented, Scientology-like notion of what was going on in heaven before the creation of the earth."

[In full rant mode] He's got to answer, when he was 30 years old and he firmly believed in the faith of his father that black people are inferior. When did he change his mind? Did the religion have to tell him to change his mind? And when he talks about the faith of his father, how about the faith of his great-grandfather, who had five wives?

His religion is based on the work of a lying, fraudulent, criminal named Joseph Smith who was a racist, who was pro-slavery, whose religion was completely pro-slavery.

He was given an opportunity to distance himself from the evils of his religion, and he didn't.

Joseph Smith was a slavery champion, the inventor of this ridiculous religion.
His religion is full of crazy beliefs. Everyone on this panel thinks his religion is full of crazy beliefs. Everyone of us does. You won't believe it. Do you think the Garden of Eden was in Missouri?


Go to the link and watch the video. This is one liberal who does need serious adult supervision

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2007/12/08/larry-odonnells-anti-mormon-rant-demented-racist-pro-slavery-crazy