Atlas Shrugged

[Yurt]

http://www.jackharper.org/images/BOOKFORUM/AtlasShrugged.jpg

I am a little over half way through this book. I have been reading lighter books in between. I find myself getting a tad bored. I have a cousin that is a philosophy prof at Duke that believes this is the "bible." And teaches that in fact. So I read it in order that I could actually discuss his ideas with some background, e.g., understanding what I thought she was writing about.

Anyone ever finished this book? Has anyone experienced my problem of getting somewhat bored in the middle?

[Said1]

http://www.jackharper.org/images/BOOKFORUM/AtlasShrugged.jpg

I am a little over half way through this book. I have been reading lighter books in between. I find myself getting a tad bored. I have a cousin that is a philosophy prof at Duke that believes this is the "bible." And teaches that in fact. So I read it in order that I could actually discuss his ideas with some background, e.g., understanding what I thought she was writing about.

Anyone ever finished this book? Has anyone experienced my problem of getting somewhat bored in the middle?

I didn't finish the book. I found the use of symbolism kind of tacky and it really got on my nerves. I just didn't like it. I think Rand's academic work is much better. I hope Atlas Shrugged, the novel, isn't considered academic. :eek:

[April15]

Was required reading in college for me.

[Mr. P]

Should be required reading for everyone...specially liberals.

[Said1]

Was required reading in college for me.

What subject?

[April15]

What subject?Political science. A class I dropped.

[Said1]

Political science. A class I dropped.

So you didn't like it? :laugh2:

[Yurt]

I didn't finish the book. I found the use of symbolism kind of tacky and it really got on my nerves. I just didn't like it. I think Rand's academic work is much better. I hope Atlas Shrugged, the novel, isn't considered academic. :eek:

It is actually beyond mere "academic." I think he wants to start a college based primarily on her teachings.

I think in either southern TN or northern GA.

[Yurt]

Was required reading in college for me.

What college and what study if you don't mind answering?

[Yurt]

Should be required reading for everyone...specially liberals.

Why?

So far, I agree with most of the book, is there something in the latter half that I need to read/finish?

[Mr. P]

Why?

So far, I agree with most of the book, is there something in the latter half that I need to read/finish?

Yep...finish it.
Oh keep in mind when it was written too..:poke:

[Yurt]

Yep...finish it.
Oh keep in mind when it was written too..:poke:

I know when it was written.


So what are your thoughts on it.

[Sitarro]

I felt the first 50 pages were a bit slow but after that I read some every day until I finished it. I agree with Mr. P that it is well worth finishing, John Galt's speech is incredible just as Howard Roark's was in The Fountainhead.

The story could easily be about the airlines instead of the railroads and is quite timeless in the way it was written. If you don't want to finish it, skip to John Galt's 56 page speech, well worth the read. I would also recommend The Fountainhead, a shorter book about an architect....... very good.

[Mr. P]

I know when it was written.


So what are your thoughts on it.

My thought is it's a view of our future if we continue down the same path.

[Said1]

It is actually beyond mere "academic." I think he wants to start a college based primarily on her teachings.

I think in either southern TN or northern GA.

Her teachings and fiction writing ie Atlas Shrugged are not in the same calibure, IMHO. I'm juding the book from any other persepctive other than literary. I guess it depends largely on why you are reading it and if there is any background (lectures etc) provided to help guide you through the book. Maybe I should finish the book, too! :laugh:

I have to admit, I would be interested in looking at the feminist persepctive. That would be an interesting class. :laugh2:

[truthmatters]

I read this and the fountainhead in high school on my own accord along with many ohter books. I found them both boring and tedious to read. I was not taken with the main charactor at all. They were some of the few books from my self impelled reading that I did not like. Im just not a selfish enough person to understand her ideas on the good of shelfishness.

[Said1]

I read this and the fountainhead in high school on my own accord along with many ohter books. I found them both boring and tedious to read. I was not taken with the main charactor at all. They were some of the few books from my self impelled reading that I did not like. Im just not a selfish enough person to understand her ideas on the good of shelfishness.

There is something about ineptitude at the beginning of Atlas Shrugged that I liked a lot. Yurt, can you did up the quote since you probably have the book handy. :laugh2:

[truthmatters]

http://www.noblesoul.com/orc/books/rand/vos.html

Ayn Rand was all about the virtue of selfishness. I do not conscribe to that notion. Many on the right seem to love the undercurrent of this in her books. I did not.

[Said1]

http://www.noblesoul.com/orc/books/rand/vos.html

Ayn Rand was all about the virtue of selfishness. I do not conscribe to that notion. Many on the right seem to love the undercurrent of this in her books. I did not.

Yep. According to the first web site that popped up after googling.

I thought you would like objectionism. :laugh2:

[Sitarro]

http://www.noblesoul.com/orc/books/rand/vos.html

Ayn Rand was all about the virtue of selfishness. I do not conscribe to that notion. Many on the right seem to love the undercurrent of this in her books. I did not.

So basically you are saying that you didn't understand anything about what she says in either book......... that would explain a lot about many of your previous thoughts over the last year. China is still doing that communist crap and Hugo is trying hard to show the world how great socialism is, maybe you might feel more comfortable in their countries.

You are just like the people in The Fountainhead that wanted to steal Howard Roarks genius, change it to suit their lack of taste and then claim it as their own for the "common good"......... you just don't get it at all.

[truthmatters]

Then why dont you explain to me what her book "the virtue of Selfishness" is all about?

Ayn Rand is to me one of the most over rated writers in modern history.

This is the sites discription of the book.

AYN RAND here sets forth the moral principles of Objectivism, the philosophy that holds that man's life -- the life proper to a rational being -- as the standard of moral values and regards altruism as incompatible with man's nature, with the creative requirements of his survival, and with a free society. (From a Signet paperback printing.)

[Said1]

Then why dont you explain to me what her book "the virtue of Selfishness" is all about?

Ayn Rand is to me one of the most over rated writers in modern history.

Ayn Rand was more than just a 'writer'.


This is the sites discription of the book.

AYN RAND here sets forth the moral principles of Objectivism, the philosophy that holds that man's life -- the life proper to a rational being -- as the standard of moral values and regards altruism as incompatible with man's nature, with the creative requirements of his survival, and with a free society. (From a Signet paperback printing.)

Do you even know what the above means? For example, do you know, even roughly what the term 'rational being' refers to? Altruism?

[truthmatters]

as the standard of moral values and regards altruism as incompatible with man's nature, with the creative requirements of his survival, and with a free society


I know very well what this means.

People who agree with this concept are the ones who think this is true.

Thankfully many Human beings dont agree that altruism is incompatable with mans nature.

I would like you to ponder deeply why you agree with that statement and get back to me.

[Said1]

as the standard of moral values and regards altruism as incompatible with man's nature, with the creative requirements of his survival, and with a free society


I know very well what this means.

No you don't. You copied and pasted some words. I'm not sure why you picked those words. Can you explain?



People who agree with this concept are the ones who think this is true.

You wouldn't know because you don't know what the terms mean, as is evident above.


Thankfully many Human beings dont agree that altruism is incompatable with mans nature.

I would like you to ponder deeply why you agree with that statement and get back to me.

I would like you do ponder deeply as to why you think (that's you, not someone else you plan on quoting and pasting) I agree with the statement you pasted- or at least quote my words. :)

[truthmatters]

When I read her books I read them as a 16 , 17 year old kid with no instruction. I read them for pleasure on my own. I had no one there telling me what to think about what they meant to them and the scholors ideas on what they meant.

I did not like the contained ideas and found the book full of selfagrandising Charactors who felt above other humans.

Then I ran acrossed the lovely little book "the virtue of selfishness" in collage and felt I completetly understood her work all by my little teenaged self without someone telling what to think.

You go ahead and study her Ideas and what she labeled them if you like. I went on to other ideas that had more merit.


Those words I quoted were from the sight which is describing the book. It is what the book is about. Did you read it?

[Sitarro]

When I read her books I read them as a 16 , 17 year old kid with no instruction. I read them for pleasure on my own. I had no one there telling me what to think about what they meant to them and the scholors ideas on what they meant.

I did not like the contained ideas and found the book full of selfagrandising Charactors who felt above other humans.

Then I ran acrossed the lovely little book "the virtue of selfishness" in collage and felt I completetly understood her work all by my little teenaged self without someone telling what to think.

You go ahead and study her Ideas and what she labeled them if you like. I went on to other ideas that had more merit.


Those words I quoted were from the sight which is describing the book. It is what the book is about. Did you read it?

collage???? What did you study at collage, how to paste things on top of one another?:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[truthmatters]

Wow you have found I misspelled a word?

I guess that means selfishness is a wonderful virtue huh?

Now do you have anything of import to add?

[Said1]

When I read her books I read them as a 16 , 17 year old kid with no instruction. I read them for pleasure on my own. I had no one there telling me what to think about what they meant to them and the scholors ideas on what they meant.

I did not like the contained ideas and found the book full of selfagrandising Charactors who felt above other humans.

Fair enough. I guess.


Then I ran acrossed the lovely little book "the virtue of selfishness" in collage and felt I completetly understood her work all by my little teenaged self without someone telling what to think.



I don't think you do. But it's all good anyway.


You go ahead and study her Ideas and what she labeled them if you like. I went on to other ideas that had more merit.

Such as? Who's countering ideas did you consider more 'meritable'? Why do you think doing good for selfis reasons is bad? Rand differentiates between a shopping and philanthropy. Both can and are acts that promote one's well being and happieness. Where are you at odds with that?

Questioning your statements promote discussion. Asking you to elaborate is not a 'gotcha' set up, as you seem to sometimes think. Serious question.



Those words I quoted were from the sight which is describing the book. It is what the book is about. Did you read it?

Yes, I know. Twice, you quoted a very simplistic description of the introduction in a book containing several essays. And yes, I have read it. I might give Fountain Head a chance, but I was turned off by Atlas.

[truthmatters]

Nietzsche, Dostoevsky were a couple.

Im not trying to pretend to be some great source of knowledge on any of these writers. I was a teenage kid who wanted to know what the "educated people" of the world knew and thought. I wanted to be able to think and understand the intellectual world. This is why I was so determined to go to college even though no one in my family ever had. This is why libraries are wonderful things and why I will never give up on helping others. Helping others is the greatest thing another human can do in my mind. Many philosophers agree with me on this one. We are pack animals us humans and it is essential to our entire beings to help each other.

Ayn Rand and her books approach cult status with some people and I am sorry if I mistook you for one of those people. I do find the ideas interesting but I also find them very flawed. Many on the right see them as a type of philosphophical bible. It really makes me sad to think so many feel the virtue of selfishness is a good idea for mankind.

[Said1]

Nietzsche, Dostoevsky were a couple.

Ahhhhhh, Nietzsche! Run for the hills. :laugh2:


Im not trying to pretend to be some great source of knowledge on any of these writers. I was a teenage kid who wanted to know what the "educated people" of the world knew and thought. I wanted to be able to think and understand the intellectual world. This is why I was so determined to go to college even though no one in my family ever had. This is why libraries are wonderful things and why I will never give up on helping others. Helping others is the greatest thing another human can do in my mind. Many philosophers agree with me on this one. We are pack animals us humans and it is essential to our entire beings to help each other.

Ayn Rand and her books approach cult status with some people and I am sorry if I mistook you for one of those people. I do find the ideas interesting but I also find them very flawed. Many on the right see them as a type of philosphophical bible. It really makes me sad to think so many feel the virtue of selfishness is a good idea for mankind.


Rand doesn't advocate not helping others. I constantly have this arguement with my mother. She claims that working as an advocate is selfless, since it involves helping others - often at a great cost to herself. I say that isn't exactly true, because she likes it. In fact, she's addicted to it. Helping others promotes her well being and makes her very happy - which is selfish. She would be very unhappy if she didn't spend every waking moment fighting 'the man'. (And that is NO joke. :laugh2: ) Moreover, what's really funny is that she doesn't do things with and for organizations she doesn't like, even if those activities do help people, a lot. She considers how it affects her, personally before she commits - not the lives of those involved.

Anyway, that's a VERY simplified version of 'the virtue of selfishness' and I'm not much for philosophy that extends beyond politics in the first place. It's too open ended. I like a beginning, a middle and an end. :laugh2:

[truthmatters]

Do realise I did not say I found these ideas perfect either I just moved arround in the world of thought and ideas. If you recall you asked who I moved onto. I noted two examples.

I used these books to try and understand the spectrum of though.

I would guess your Mom does feel good when she helps but it is not the Only reason she tries to do good.

Maybe she thinks certain ones to more harm than good.

[Dilloduck]

Do realise I did not say I found these ideas perfect either I just moved arround in the world of thought and ideas. If you recall you asked who I moved onto. I noted two examples.

I used these books to try and understand the spectrum of though.



No worries--I fully understand that you refuse to appear as though you subscribe to ANY school of thought or "ism".