im watching Romney's speech on religion

[avatar4321]

It's pretty darn good. I will try to post a link to it when they have it up. But here is the live stream.

http://www.mittromney.com/splash

[Kathianne]

It's pretty darn good. I will try to post a link to it when they have it up. But here is the live stream.

http://www.mittromney.com/splash

I was reading excerpts earlier:

http://www.examiner.com/blogs/tapscotts_copy_desk/2007/12/6/Excerpts-from-Gov-Mitt-Romneys-Speech-at-the-Bush-Library



Excerpts from Gov. Mitt Romney's Speech at the Bush Library
December 6, 7:22 AM
Republican presidential candidate and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney speaks later today at the George H.W. Bush Presidential Library in College Station, Texas in an address on his view of the role of religious faith in American public life. Following are excerpts from the Romney speech:

"There are some who may feel that religion is not a matter to be seriously considered in the context of the weighty threats that face us. If so, they are at odds with the nation's founders, for they, when our nation faced its greatest peril, sought the blessings of the Creator. And further, they discovered the essential connection between the survival of a free land and the protection of religious freedom. In John Adam's words: 'We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our constitution was made for a moral and religious people.'

"Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone."…

"When I place my hand on the Bible and take the oath of office, that oath becomes my highest promise to God. If I am fortunate to become your president, I will serve no one religion, no one group, no one cause, and no one interest. A President must serve only the common cause of the people of the United States."…

"There are some who would have a presidential candidate describe and explain his church's distinctive doctrines. To do so would enable the very religious test the founders prohibited in the constitution. No candidate should become the spokesman for his faith. For if he becomes President he will need the prayers of the people of all faiths."…

"It is important to recognize that while differences in theology exist between the churches in America, we share a common creed of moral convictions. And where the affairs of our nation are concerned, it's usually a sound rule to focus on the latter – on the great moral principles that urge us all on a common course. Whether it was the cause of abolition, or civil rights, or the right to life itself, no movement of conscience can succeed in America that cannot speak to the convictions of religious people.

"We separate church and state affairs in this country, and for good reason. No religion should dictate to the state nor should the state interfere with the free practice of religion. But in recent years, the notion of the separation of church and state has been taken by some well beyond its original meaning. They seek to remove from the public domain any acknowledgment of God. Religion is seen as merely a private affair with no place in public life. It is as if they are intent on establishing a new religion in America – the religion of secularism. They are wrong.

"The founders proscribed the establishment of a state religion, but they did not countenance the elimination of religion from the public square. We are a nation 'Under God' and in God, we do indeed trust.

"We should acknowledge the Creator as did the founders – in ceremony and word. He should remain on our currency, in our pledge, in the teaching of our history, and during the holiday season, nativity scenes and menorahs should be welcome in our public places. Our greatness would not long endure without judges who respect the foundation of faith upon which our constitution rests. I will take care to separate the affairs of government from any religion, but I will not separate us from 'the God who gave us liberty.'"

“These American values, this great moral heritage, is shared and lived in my religion as it is in yours. I was taught in my home to honor God and love my neighbor. I saw my father march with Martin Luther King. I saw my parents provide compassionate care to others, in personal ways to people nearby, and in just as consequential ways in leading national volunteer movements."

"My faith is grounded on these truths. You can witness them in Ann and my marriage and in our family. We are a long way from perfect and we have surely stumbled along the way, but our aspirations, our values, are the self -same as those from the other faiths that stand upon this common foundation. And these convictions will indeed inform my presidency."

"The diversity of our cultural expression, and the vibrancy of our religious dialogue, has kept America in the forefront of civilized nations even as others regard religious freedom as something to be destroyed.

"In such a world, we can be deeply thankful that we live in a land where reason and religion are friends and allies in the cause of liberty, joined against the evils and dangers of the day. And you can be certain of this: Any believer in religious freedom, any person who has knelt in prayer to the Almighty, has a friend and ally in me. And so it is for hundreds of millions of our countrymen: we do not insist on a single strain of religion - rather, we welcome our nation's symphony of faith."

[avatar4321]

i missed the first ten minutes. so im hoping they post the entire speech online to watch.

[avatar4321]

The transcript can be found here (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/12/faith_in_america.html):


Thank you, Mr. President, for your kind introduction.

It is an honor to be here today. This is an inspiring place because of you and the First Lady and because of the film exhibited across the way in the Presidential library. For those who have not seen it, it shows the President as a young pilot, shot down during the Second World War, being rescued from his life-raft by the crew of an American submarine. It is a moving reminder that when America has faced challenge and peril, Americans rise to the occasion, willing to risk their very lives to defend freedom and preserve our nation. We are in your debt. Thank you, Mr. President.

Mr. President, your generation rose to the occasion, first to defeat Fascism and then to vanquish the Soviet Union. You left us, your children, a free and strong America. It is why we call yours the greatest generation. It is now my generation's turn. How we respond to today's challenges will define our generation. And it will determine what kind of America we will leave our children, and theirs.

America faces a new generation of challenges. Radical violent Islam seeks to destroy us. An emerging China endeavors to surpass our economic leadership. And we are troubled at home by government overspending, overuse of foreign oil, and the breakdown of the family.

Over the last year, we have embarked on a national debate on how best to preserve American leadership. Today, I wish to address a topic which I believe is fundamental to America's greatness: our religious liberty. I will also offer perspectives on how my own faith would inform my Presidency, if I were elected.

There are some who may feel that religion is not a matter to be seriously considered in the context of the weighty threats that face us. If so, they are at odds with the nation's founders, for they, when our nation faced its greatest peril, sought the blessings of the Creator. And further, they discovered the essential connection between the survival of a free land and the protection of religious freedom. In John Adams' words: 'We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our constitution was made for a moral and religious people.'

Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone.

Given our grand tradition of religious tolerance and liberty, some wonder whether there are any questions regarding an aspiring candidate's religion that are appropriate. I believe there are. And I will answer them today.

Almost 50 years ago another candidate from Massachusetts explained that he was an American running for president, not a Catholic running for president. Like him, I am an American running for president. I do not define my candidacy by my religion. A person should not be elected because of his faith nor should he be rejected because of his faith.

Let me assure you that no authorities of my church, or of any other church for that matter, will ever exert influence on presidential decisions. Their authority is theirs, within the province of church affairs, and it ends where the affairs of the nation begin.

As governor, I tried to do the right as best I knew it, serving the law and answering to the Constitution. I did not confuse the particular teachings of my church with the obligations of the office and of the Constitution - and of course, I would not do so as President. I will put no doctrine of any church above the plain duties of the office and the sovereign authority of the law.

As a young man, Lincoln described what he called America's 'political religion' - the commitment to defend the rule of law and the Constitution. When I place my hand on the Bible and take the oath of office, that oath becomes my highest promise to God. If I am fortunate to become your president, I will serve no one religion, no one group, no one cause, and no one interest. A President must serve only the common cause of the people of the United States.

There are some for whom these commitments are not enough. They would prefer it if I would simply distance myself from my religion, say that it is more a tradition than my personal conviction, or disavow one or another of its precepts. That I will not do. I believe in my Mormon faith and I endeavor to live by it. My faith is the faith of my fathers - I will be true to them and to my beliefs.

Some believe that such a confession of my faith will sink my candidacy. If they are right, so be it. But I think they underestimate the American people. Americans do not respect believers of convenience.

Americans tire of those who would jettison their beliefs, even to gain the world.

There is one fundamental question about which I often am asked. What do I believe about Jesus Christ? I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of mankind. My church's beliefs about Christ may not all be the same as those of other faiths. Each religion has its own unique doctrines and history. These are not bases for criticism but rather a test of our tolerance. Religious tolerance would be a shallow principle indeed if it were reserved only for faiths with which we agree.

There are some who would have a presidential candidate describe and explain his church's distinctive doctrines. To do so would enable the very religious test the founders prohibited in the Constitution. No candidate should become the spokesman for his faith. For if he becomes President he will need the prayers of the people of all faiths.

I believe that every faith I have encountered draws its adherents closer to God. And in every faith I have come to know, there are features I wish were in my own: I love the profound ceremony of the Catholic Mass, the approachability of God in the prayers of the Evangelicals, the tenderness of spirit among the Pentecostals, the confident independence of the Lutherans, the ancient traditions of the Jews, unchanged through the ages, and the commitment to frequent prayer of the Muslims. As I travel across the country and see our towns and cities, I am always moved by the many houses of worship with their steeples, all pointing to heaven, reminding us of the source of life's blessings.

It is important to recognize that while differences in theology exist between the churches in America, we share a common creed of moral convictions. And where the affairs of our nation are concerned, it's usually a sound rule to focus on the latter - on the great moral principles that urge us all on a common course. Whether it was the cause of abolition, or civil rights, or the right to life itself, no movement of conscience can succeed in America that cannot speak to the convictions of religious people.

We separate church and state affairs in this country, and for good reason. No religion should dictate to the state nor should the state interfere with the free practice of religion. But in recent years, the notion of the separation of church and state has been taken by some well beyond its original meaning. They seek to remove from the public domain any acknowledgment of God. Religion is seen as merely a private affair with no place in public life. It is as if they are intent on establishing a new religion in America - the religion of secularism. They are wrong.

The founders proscribed the establishment of a state religion, but they did not countenance the elimination of religion from the public square. We are a nation 'Under God' and in God, we do indeed trust.

We should acknowledge the Creator as did the Founders - in ceremony and word. He should remain on our currency, in our pledge, in the teaching of our history, and during the holiday season, nativity scenes and menorahs should be welcome in our public places. Our greatness would not long endure without judges who respect the foundation of faith upon which our constitution rests. I will take care to separate the affairs of government from any religion, but I will not separate us from 'the God who gave us liberty.'

Nor would I separate us from our religious heritage. Perhaps the most important question to ask a person of faith who seeks a political office, is this: does he share these American values: the equality of human kind, the obligation to serve one another, and a steadfast commitment to liberty?

They are not unique to any one denomination. They belong to the great moral inheritance we hold in common. They are the firm ground on which Americans of different faiths meet and stand as a nation, united.

We believe that every single human being is a child of God - we are all part of the human family. The conviction of the inherent and inalienable worth of every life is still the most revolutionary political proposition ever advanced. John Adams put it that we are 'thrown into the world all equal and alike.'

The consequence of our common humanity is our responsibility to one another, to our fellow Americans foremost, but also to every child of God. It is an obligation which is fulfilled by Americans every day, here and across the globe, without regard to creed or race or nationality.

Americans acknowledge that liberty is a gift of God, not an indulgence of government. No people in the history of the world have sacrificed as much for liberty. The lives of hundreds of thousands of America's sons and daughters were laid down during the last century to preserve freedom, for us and for freedom loving people throughout the world. America took nothing from that Century's terrible wars - no land from Germany or Japan or Korea; no treasure; no oath of fealty. America's resolve in the defense of liberty has been tested time and again. It has not been found wanting, nor must it ever be. America must never falter in holding high the banner of freedom.

These American values, this great moral heritage, is shared and lived in my religion as it is in yours. I was taught in my home to honor God and love my neighbor. I saw my father march with Martin Luther King. I saw my parents provide compassionate care to others, in personal ways to people nearby, and in just as consequential ways in leading national volunteer movements. I am moved by the Lord's words: 'For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: naked, and ye clothed me...'

My faith is grounded on these truths. You can witness them in Ann and my marriage and in our family. We are a long way from perfect and we have surely stumbled along the way, but our aspirations, our values, are the self-same as those from the other faiths that stand upon this common foundation. And these convictions will indeed inform my presidency.

Today's generations of Americans have always known religious liberty. Perhaps we forget the long and arduous path our nation's forbearers took to achieve it. They came here from England to seek freedom of religion. But upon finding it for themselves, they at first denied it to others. Because of their diverse beliefs, Ann Hutchinson was exiled from Massachusetts Bay, a banished Roger Williams founded Rhode Island, and two centuries later, Brigham Young set out for the West. Americans were unable to accommodate their commitment to their own faith with an appreciation for the convictions of others to different faiths. In this, they were very much like those of the European nations they had left.

It was in Philadelphia that our founding fathers defined a revolutionary vision of liberty, grounded on self evident truths about the equality of all, and the inalienable rights with which each is endowed by his Creator.

We cherish these sacred rights, and secure them in our Constitutional order. Foremost do we protect religious liberty, not as a matter of policy but as a matter of right. There will be no established church, and we are guaranteed the free exercise of our religion.

I'm not sure that we fully appreciate the profound implications of our tradition of religious liberty. I have visited many of the magnificent cathedrals in Europe. They are so inspired . so grand . so empty. Raised up over generations, long ago, so many of the cathedrals now stand as the postcard backdrop to societies just too busy or too 'enlightened' to venture inside and kneel in prayer. The establishment of state religions in Europe did no favor to Europe's churches. And though you will find many people of strong faith there, the churches themselves seem to be withering away.

nfinitely worse is the other extreme, the creed of conversion by conquest: violent Jihad, murder as martyrdom... killing Christians, Jews, and Muslims with equal indifference. These radical Islamists do their preaching not by reason or example, but in the coercion of minds and the shedding of blood. We face no greater danger today than theocratic tyranny, and the boundless suffering these states and groups could inflict if given the chance.

The diversity of our cultural expression, and the vibrancy of our religious dialogue, has kept America in the forefront of civilized nations even as others regard religious freedom as something to be destroyed.

In such a world, we can be deeply thankful that we live in a land where reason and religion are friends and allies in the cause of liberty, joined against the evils and dangers of the day. And you can be certain of this: Any believer in religious freedom, any person who has knelt in prayer to the Almighty, has a friend and ally in me. And so it is for hundreds of millions of our countrymen: we do not insist on a single strain of religion - rather, we welcome our nation's symphony of faith.

Recall the early days of the First Continental Congress in Philadelphia, during the fall of 1774. With Boston occupied by British troops, there were rumors of imminent hostilities and fears of an impending war. In this time of peril, someone suggested that they pray. But there were objections. 'They were too divided in religious sentiments', what with Episcopalians and Quakers, Anabaptists and Congregationalists, Presbyterians and Catholics.

"Then Sam Adams rose, and said he would hear a prayer from anyone of piety and good character, as long as they were a patriot.

And so together they prayed, and together they fought, and together, by the grace of God ... they founded this great nation.

In that spirit, let us give thanks to the divine 'author of liberty.' And together, let us pray that this land may always be blessed, 'with freedom's holy light.'

God bless the United States of America.

[truthmatters]

Very well done.

If I was worrying about voting for him only because he was a morman I would be satified.

I have already voted for a morman in the past which is Harry Reid.

[Hagbard Celine]

Very well done.

If I was worrying about voting for him only because he was a morman I would be satified.

I have already voted for a morman in the past which is Harry Reid.

You can only read the golden tablets with the seeing stones!:eek:

[avatar4321]

You can only read the golden tablets with the seeing stones!:eek:

:rolleyes:

[avatar4321]

This speech is coming off very well for Romney. He is getting great media publicity, especially among the conservative media. Rush Limbaugh is praising it right now. And he has the largest audience in the nation right now. I think this speech will seriously help Romney.

[glockmail]

I'm inspired. In fact I'm willing to look past the fact that he was governor of Assachusetts

[JohnDoe]

just curious....would you guys vote for romney for president, if he got the repub nomination and if jeb bush was his chosen vp? or would you all be complaining about the clinton's and bush's being in power for too long, and abstain from voting?

[avatar4321]

just curious....would you guys vote for romney for president, if he got the repub nomination and if jeb bush was his chosen vp? or would you all be complaining about the clinton's and bush's being in power for too long, and abstain from voting?

I dont know that he has a Vice President choice yet. But of course id vote for Romney. Ive been supporting his candidacy since i learned all who was running and took a look at their platforms.

[avatar4321]

I'm inspired. In fact I'm willing to look past the fact that he was governor of Assachusetts

Massachusetts wasnt always evil. Im sure there are still alot of good people there.

[JohnDoe]

I dont know that he has a Vice President choice yet. But of course id vote for Romney. Ive been supporting his candidacy since i learned all who was running and took a look at their platforms.
So having ANOTHER Bush legacy put in place would not bother you in the least? cuz after the 8 years of Jeb Bush as vp, he would probably end up having another 8 years as President, so that would be 36 near consecutive YEARS of the Bush family in power, either as Presidents or vice presidents?


I personally think that this would be a major problem, and almost a princehood or kingship in place verses a presidency or vice presidency of the people.....

I hope he is wise enough not to pick Jeb Bush as vp but I did hear early on that Jeb was his preferred vp choice and I had read some skivvy on Jeb campaign supporters funding their money to romney, then with him using the Bush Library to make this speech today has me thinking that maybe the rumors were correct, and Jeb is his pick.

Romney was my governor of Massachusetts and I had no real major issues with him being the governor of my state, with the majorities in Congress being Democratic....it gave it a balance of sorts that Massachusetts needed, imo.

jd

[JohnDoe]

I'm inspired. In fact I'm willing to look past the fact that he was governor of Assachusetts Up here, in northern or rather "Downeast" maine, many call the people of Massachusetts, Massholes.....lol, I kid you not!!!! We could not get Maine tags for our cars quick enough, when we moved here! :laugh2:

jd

[Hagbard Celine]

just curious....would you guys vote for romney for president, if he got the repub nomination and if jeb bush was his chosen vp? or would you all be complaining about the clinton's and bush's being in power for too long, and abstain from voting?

I would abstain. It's the only surefire way to prevent unwanted presidency.:dance:

[JohnDoe]

I would abstain. It's the only surefire way to prevent unwanted presidency.:dance:hahahahahahahaha!

That was definately a good chuckle! lol

[-Cp]

I'd vote for Romney/Norris

[truthmatters]

You can only read the golden tablets with the seeing stones!:eek:

There are things in all the religions I find utterly silly.

[Abbey Marie]

Massachusetts wasnt always evil. Im sure there are still alot of good people there.

The good ones have moved to Hew Hampshire.

[glockmail]

Up here, in northern or rather "Downeast" maine, many call the people of Massachusetts, Massholes.....lol, I kid you not!!!! We could not get Maine tags for our cars quick enough, when we moved here! :laugh2:

jd
So now you're a Maniac. That's the way it is in Assachusetts. "What are you? (referring to ancestry)?" They hate anyone who is not like them, or lives in another town, or even the same town but the "wrong" neighborhood. It should be called the "hate thy neighbor state".

[Roadrunner]

just curious....would you guys vote for romney for president, if he got the repub nomination and if jeb bush was his chosen vp? or would you all be complaining about the clinton's and bush's being in power for too long, and abstain from voting?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I would have no problem voting for Romney for President if he should select Jeb Bush as his running mate. Romney would be the president, not Jeb. Jeb was an excellent governor of FL, so I would feel comfortable having him in the second spot and available to take over if the need arose. I feel like he would be able to do it, and I would have no problem with Jeb running for President himself somewhere down the line but not now when there is so much burnout from the Clinton and Bush families.

[glockmail]

Massachusetts wasnt always evil. Im sure there are still alot of good people there. Perhaps, but I lived there 22 years and met more assholes than "good folk". Or at least that's the way it seems.

[theHawk]

We don't need another Bush close to the Presidency again IMO...

Whoever gets the Republican nomination...will probably get my vote. I already know I am voting against Hillary!!

[Roadrunner]

It's pretty darn good.

I watched it, too, and I thought he gave an excellent speech. If the Republicans choose him as their candidate, I can get on the bandwagon. In my opinion, he has been a very good performer in the Republican presidential debates.

I don't understand stirring up trouble about a person's religion. Romney's religion seems to have served him well in his life. He has been a successful businessman, people had no problem with him imposing his religious beliefs on them when he was governor of MA, he is intelligent and handles himself well in difficult situations. He has only had one wife, and his kids turned out well. Romney has been a good citizen and a good public servant. So where is the problem? We should be glad to have a person of his character and qualifications as a presidential candidate.

[Abbey Marie]

I was thinking back to when Lieberman was running for V.P., and I don't remember there being issues raised about his religion. So why now with a Mormon?

[Hagbard Celine]

Perhaps, but I lived there 22 years and met more assholes than "good folk". Or at least that's the way it seems.

That's because being an assh*le is the number one rule in the "Lib Handbook." It even comes before the chapters on worshipping Satan and sexual deviancy.

[JohnDoe]

That's because being an assh*le is the number one rule in the "Lib Handbook." It even comes before the chapters on worshipping Satan and sexual deviancy.
What a crock of Poo Poo!:laugh2:

jd

[Yurt]

I thought Romney's speech was right on.

What amazes me is, you athiests or whatever, if you ran, no one would question your "beliefs." But, because someone that is a member of christian religion runs, you all have a shit fit. Isn't that what you libs are all worked up about, freedom of religion?

Romney made a damn good point about that, but as usual, you ignore that, because anyone who is not apart of your "religion" is a heathen christian terrorist.

[Yurt]

And to add, people seem to be in hysteria because, *gasp*, he is morman. JFK was all the rage for being Catholic. Now he is considered one of the greatest presidents. Politics aside.

[Pale Rider]

I just think it's too bad the guy HAD to give one in the first place.

What if he was mooslim? Would anyone DARE say JACK SHIT to him? You know you can't offend a mooslim. They'll cut your freakin' HEAD OFF!

[JohnDoe]

I just think it's too bad the guy HAD to give one in the first place.

What if he was mooslim? Would anyone DARE say JACK SHIT to him? You know you can't offend a mooslim. They'll cut your freakin' HEAD OFF!I am not certain that he "had to" for the general populous, it seems as though he had to, in order to capture the votes of the evangelicals or the religious right imho....mainly because Huckabee was giving him a run for the money when it came to those groups.... at least that is what I have come to believe..... the message was catered to the religious, not those that are athiest.

jd

[Kathianne]

And to add, people seem to be in hysteria because, *gasp*, he is morman. JFK was all the rage for being Catholic. Now he is considered one of the greatest presidents. Politics aside.

I'm Catholic. My folks were ecstatic when Kennedy ran, much less elected. He make my 15 worst presidents list.

[nevadamedic]

Very well done.

If I was worrying about voting for him only because he was a morman I would be satified.

I have already voted for a morman in the past which is Harry Reid.

I wouldn't brag about voting for Dirty Harry. I also thought mormons were not supposed to have sex outside marriage? I know Harry Reid used to frequent the Brothels quite often and also had a thing for showgirls. So he sure isn't a good mormon.

[nevadamedic]

just curious....would you guys vote for romney for president, if he got the repub nomination and if jeb bush was his chosen vp? or would you all be complaining about the clinton's and bush's being in power for too long, and abstain from voting?

He is expected to take JeB Bush as Vice President. Most of Jeb's top staff members left their positions to join the Romney campaign.

[nevadamedic]

I'd vote for Romney/Norris

Ummmmm, Norris endorsed and fully supports Hucklebee.

[nevadamedic]

Also another problem I have with Romney is his close friendships with John Kerry and Ted Kennedy and his recent conversion to a Conservative. He was also a strong critic of Ronald Reagan and now he is calling him self another Ronald Reagan, I smell BS.

As far as Jeb Bush running for VP or President, that doesn't bother me as I am a Bush supporter but I also feel we need a change. There is a reason we have term limits. They are there so we have new ideas, values and policies constantly. I also think term limits should be placed on Congressmen and Senators.

[Pale Rider]

I am not certain that he "had to" for the general populous, it seems as though he had to, in order to capture the votes of the evangelicals or the religious right imho....mainly because Huckabee was giving him a run for the money when it came to those groups.... at least that is what I have come to believe..... the message was catered to the religious, not those that are athiest.

jd

Huckabee was one of the people that's been responsible for the, "he's a Mormon," bull shit. But yes, Romney probably did it to put to rest the notion that somehow being a Mormon would influence him as President. It won't. What... you think he's going to work to get polygamy legalised? Ppphht. And again, it's too bad he felt he needed to do that. This crap goes back to JFK when he had to do the same thing because he was Catholic.

If Romney is the repub man on the ticket, I'm voting for him, and going to feel good about doing it.

[JackDaniels]

I thought Romney's speech was right on.

What amazes me is, you athiests or whatever, if you ran, no one would question your "beliefs." But, because someone that is a member of christian religion runs, you all have a shit fit. Isn't that what you libs are all worked up about, freedom of religion?

Romney made a damn good point about that, but as usual, you ignore that, because anyone who is not apart of your "religion" is a heathen christian terrorist.

I guess you haven't been following the news.

This is not a Christian vs. Atheist thing. This is a Christian vs. Mormon thing.

Mormons are NOT Christians. (http://cnview.com/on_line_resources/are_mormons_christian.htm)

[JohnDoe]

Huckabee was one of the people that's been responsible for the, "he's a Mormon," bull shit. But yes, Romney probably did it to put to rest the notion that somehow being a Mormon would influence him as President. It won't. What... you think he's going to work to get polygamy legalised? Ppphht. And again, it's too bad he felt he needed to do that. This crap goes back to JFK when he had to do the same thing because he was Catholic.

If Romney is the repub man on the ticket, I'm voting for him, and going to feel good about doing it.

NO, not at all Pale! Romney was my Governor, and he never put his religion first, over and above the "people" of Massachusetts when it came to his job duties....at least no time that I was ever made aware of.... I don't believe he would do that at all!

I was just trying to make the point that this speech was not for the athiests, but that this speech was for the religious Christians, the ones that have been listening to Huckabee and following Huckabee's statements that have implied that Romney is not a Christian because he is a Mormon....similar to what you were saying.

[AFbombloader]

I guess you haven't been following the news.

This is not a Christian vs. Atheist thing. This is a Christian vs. Mormon thing.

Mormons are NOT Christians. (http://cnview.com/on_line_resources/are_mormons_christian.htm)

Here is another link that gives a good background on the LDS faith.

http://www.raptureready.com/rap40c.html

I would support Romney if he were to get the nomination. While I do not agree with everything, there is not a candidate that I do agree with everything on. And having Jeb Bush in the VP slot does not bother me.


AF :salute:

[avatar4321]

Huckabee was one of the people that's been responsible for the, "he's a Mormon," bull shit. But yes, Romney probably did it to put to rest the notion that somehow being a Mormon would influence him as President. It won't. What... you think he's going to work to get polygamy legalised? Ppphht. And again, it's too bad he felt he needed to do that. This crap goes back to JFK when he had to do the same thing because he was Catholic.

If Romney is the repub man on the ticket, I'm voting for him, and going to feel good about doing it.

actually, the fact that Romney is a Mormon is probably a good thing considering Mormon scripture on upholding the Constitution and the liberty it ensures.

[Yurt]

actually, the fact that Romney is a Mormon is probably a good thing considering Mormon scripture on upholding the Constitution and the liberty it ensures.

Did not know that. What scripture?

[Yurt]

I guess you haven't been following the news.

This is not a Christian vs. Atheist thing. This is a Christian vs. Mormon thing.

Mormons are NOT Christians. (http://cnview.com/on_line_resources/are_mormons_christian.htm)

You should get out more (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/scott-whitlock/2007/12/07/abcs-sawyer-romney-against-freedom-atheists)

[avatar4321]

Did not know that. What scripture?

Give me a few minutes ill get you some references.

[avatar4321]

Mormon belief on the Constitution:


4 And now, verily I say unto you concerning the laws of the land, it is my will that my people should observe to do all things whatsoever I command them.

5 And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me.

6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;

7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.

8 I, the Lord God, make you free, therefore ye are free indeed; and the law also maketh you free.

9 Nevertheless, when the wicked rule the people mourn.

10 Wherefore, honest men and wise men should be sought for diligently, and good men and wise men ye should observe to uphold; otherwise whatsoever is less than these cometh of evil.

11 And I give unto you a commandment, that ye shall forsake all evil and cleave unto all good, that ye shall live by every word which proceedeth forth out of the mouth of God. (Doctrine and Covenants 98:4-11)

And:


76 And again I say unto you, those who have been scattered by their enemies, it is my will that they should continue to importune for redress, and redemption, by the hands of those who are placed as rulers and are in authority over you—

77 According to the laws and constitution of the people, which I have suffered to be established, and should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh, according to just and holy principles;

78 That every man may act in doctrine and principle pertaining to futurity, according to the moral agency which I have given unto him, that every man may be accountable for his own sins in the day of judgment.

79 Therefore, it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another.

80 And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood. (Doctrine and Covenants 101:76-80)

and in a prayer made by Joseph Smith:


54 Have mercy, O Lord, upon all the nations of the earth; have mercy upon the rulers of our land; may those principles, which were so honorably and nobly defended, namely, the Constitution of our land, by our fathers, be established forever. (Doctrine and Covenants 109:54)

In regards to the laws of the land:


21 Let no man break the laws of the land, for he that keepeth the laws of God hath no need to break the laws of the land. (Doctrine and Covenants 58:21)

And some excerpts from speeches by Joseph Smith:


“We deem it a just principle, and it is one the force of which we believe ought to be duly considered by every individual, that all men are created equal, and that all have the privilege of thinking for themselves upon all matters relative to conscience. Consequently, then, we are not disposed, had we the power, to deprive any one of exercising that free independence of mind which heaven has so graciously bestowed upon the human family as one of its choicest gifts.”12

“I have the most liberal sentiments, and feelings of charity towards all sects, parties, and denominations; and the rights and liberties of conscience, I hold most sacred and dear, and despise no man for differing with me in matters of opinion.”13

“The Saints can testify whether I am willing to lay down my life for my brethren. If it has been demonstrated that I have been willing to die for a ‘Mormon,’ I am bold to declare before Heaven that I am just as ready to die in defending the rights of a Presbyterian, a Baptist, or a good man of any other denomination; for the same principle which would trample upon the rights of the Latter-day Saints would trample upon the rights of the Roman Catholics, or of any other denomination who may be unpopular and too weak to defend themselves.

“It is a love of liberty which inspires my soul—civil and religious liberty to the whole of the human race. Love of liberty was diffused into my soul by my grandfathers while they dandled me on their knees. …

“If I esteem mankind to be in error, shall I bear them down? No. I will lift them up, and in their own way too, if I cannot persuade them my way is better; and I will not seek to compel any man to believe as I do, only by the force of reasoning, for truth will cut its own way.”14

“We ought always to be aware of those prejudices which sometimes so strangely present themselves, and are so congenial to human nature, against our friends, neighbors, and brethren of the world, who choose to differ from us in opinion and in matters of faith. Our religion is between us and our God. Their religion is between them and their God.”15

“When we see virtuous qualities in men, we should always acknowledge them, let their understanding be what it may in relation to creeds and doctrine; for all men are, or ought to be free, possessing unalienable rights, and the high and noble qualifications of the laws of nature and of self-preservation, to think and act and say as they please, while they maintain a due respect to the rights and privileges of all other creatures, infringing upon none. This doctrine I do most heartily subscribe to and practice.”16

“All persons are entitled to their agency, for God has so ordained it. He has constituted mankind moral agents, and given them power to choose good or evil; to seek after that which is good, by pursuing the pathway of holiness in this life, which brings peace of mind, and joy in the Holy Ghost here, and a fulness of joy and happiness at His right hand hereafter; or to pursue an evil course, going on in sin and rebellion against God, thereby bringing condemnation to their souls in this world, and an eternal loss in the world to come. Since the God of heaven has left these things optional with every individual, we do not wish to deprive them of it. We only wish to act the part of a faithful watchman, agreeable to the word of the Lord to Ezekiel the prophet (Ezekiel chap. 33, verses 2, 3, 4, 5), and leave it for others to do as seemeth them good.”17

“It is one of the first principles of my life, and one that I have cultivated from my childhood, having been taught it by my father, to allow every one the liberty of conscience. … In my feelings I am always ready to die for the protection of the weak and oppressed in their just rights.”18

“Meddle not with any man for his religion: all governments ought to permit every man to enjoy his religion unmolested. No man is authorized to take away life in consequence of difference of religion, which all laws and governments ought to tolerate and protect, right or wrong.”19

“We will … cultivate peace and friendship with all, mind our own business, and come off with flying colors, respected, because, in respecting others, we respect ourselves.”20

“Although I never feel to force my doctrine upon any person, I rejoice to see prejudice give way to truth, and the traditions of men dispersed by the pure principles of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.”21Living with others in peace and harmony (http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=da135f74db46c010VgnVCM1000004d 82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=1b28b00367c45110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&hideNav=1&contentLocale=0)

Figured i'd add a few extra quotes.

[glockmail]

That's because being an assh*le is the number one rule in the "Lib Handbook." It even comes before the chapters on worshipping Satan and sexual deviancy.
You need to get that thing published as most libs I know are decent people- just not very practical.