Congress Democrats to Implode by Christmas

[Classact]

War bridge funding is up in the air


Democrats won't budge on war funding despite Bush plea


Moments after President Bush gave a live Pentagon briefing calling on Congress to send him another war funding bill, Democrats rejected the request, saying they'll only give him the war money if he agrees to troop withdrawal goals.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/1107/Democrats_wont_budge_on_war_funding_despite_Bush_p lea.html

and the party is, as usual torn amongst themselves...


Murtha's comments on 'surge' are a problem for House Democrats


Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.), one of the leading anti-war voices in the House Democratic Caucus, is back from a trip to Iraq and he now says the "surge is working." This could be a huge problem for Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and other Democratic leaders, who are blocking approval of the full $200 billion being sought by President Bush for combat operations in Iraq in 2008.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/1107/Murthas_comments_on_surge_may_be_a_big_problem_for _House_Democrats.html
Oh, are they torn...

Democrats: Voters shifting focus from Iraq
Congressional Democrats are reporting a striking change in districts across the country: Voters are shifting their attention away from the Iraq war.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1107/7109.html

On top of all this the Democratic Party will fold on the Alternative Minimum Tax issue... they will agree to end the AMT without an equal increase in tax according to CSPAN this morning. Well, that indicates a complete implosion since their PAYGO budget counted the $45 Billions the AMT was to put in the coffers... without the AMT tax revenue and no new tax of the rich to replace it they have no budget. Or they will simply have to violate their PAYGO rules to spend money. Pooffff!

[April15]

If the dems give in to Bush they will be gone in 2008.

[Classact]

If the dems give in to Bush they will be gone in 2008.They will not only give in on the war bridge funding they will give in on their budget PAYGO promises and will give in on their Energy Bill. They are imploding... There are not enough Democrats thinking the same way to get their way.

[theHawk]

If the dems give in to Bush they will be gone in 2008.

None of your leading Democratic Presidential hopefuls is even willing to promise to you liberals that he/she will withdraw troops by a certain date. So what makes you think the Dem Congress will actually stand on that issue against Bush.

When are you libs going to realize that the outrage displayed by your Democratic leadership is nothing but political theatre and they have zero intentions of ending the war?

[Classact]

None of your leading Democratic Presidential hopefuls is even willing to promise to you liberals that he/she will withdraw troops by a certain date. So what makes you think the Dem Congress will actually stand on that issue against Bush.

When are you libs going to realize that the outrage displayed by your Democratic leadership is nothing but political theatre and they have zero intentions of ending the war?Democrats are like onions, they have layers... well maybe like garlic they have cloves...NO! they are like bamboo, when you smack it against something hard they splinter.

When the Democratic Party folds on war funding the far left will become their enemy, the Black and Hispanic caucus will in-fight and the Blue Dog Democrats will try to preserve themselves for the next election... Bush will get all he wants and the Dems will crumble in splinters.

[avatar4321]

If the dems give in to Bush they will be gone in 2008.

with any hope they will be gone regardless.

[Classact]

The anti war and environmentalist will tear the Democratic Party to shreds before Christmas.

[gabosaurus]

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa137/gabriella8406/TMW11-28-07color.jpg

[Classact]

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa137/gabriella8406/TMW11-28-07color.jpgI have loads of banana trees, tropical flowers and other local goods to wager that Democrats will eat shit and smile as they do it by Christmas as they send money without string to support the Iraq War to the President... President will play them like a drum and the news can't take the Dems side because things are much better... they will fold and when they fold the anti war splinter will hate them for it and then the environmentalist will hate them as they beg to pass some legislation... I'll bet you twenty tropical tulips that the Democrats fold before Christmas... that's a $200.00 value and I'll send them Fed Ex... what value do you have on your position?

Edited to add: And, I'll bet a public poll will be on the President's side of the issue by Christmas.

[retiredman]

I have loads of banana trees, tropical flowers and other local goods to wager that Democrats will eat shit and smile as they do it by Christmas as they send money without string to support the Iraq War to the President... President will play them like a drum and the news can't take the Dems side because things are much better... they will fold and when they fold the anti war splinter will hate them for it and then the environmentalist will hate them as they beg to pass some legislation... I'll bet you twenty tropical tulips that the Democrats fold before Christmas... that's a $200.00 value and I'll send them Fed Ex... what value do you have on your position?

Edited to add: And, I'll bet a public poll will be on the President's side of the issue by Christmas.

betting about public opinion poll numbers on the internet is sort of silly, I have found. The only poll that matters is in november 2008, and, if there were any way to insure that both sides would, in fact, pay up if they lost, I would bet a LOT of money that the next president would be a democrat and that both chambers of the congress would remain in democrat's hands.

[Classact]

betting about public opinion poll numbers on the internet is sort of silly, I have found. The only poll that matters is in november 2008, and, if there were any way to insure that both sides would, in fact, pay up if they lost, I would bet a LOT of money that the next president would be a democrat and that both chambers of the congress would remain in democrat's hands.The determination of who is in charge in 09 is not in man's hands, it's in women's hands and women have emotions and the emotions can swing very rapidly so don't be so sure on your bet... Lots of things can change in the next few months.

[retiredman]

The determination of who is in charge in 09 is not in man's hands, it's in women's hands and women have emotions and the emotions can swing very rapidly so don't be so sure on your bet... Lots of things can change in the next few months.

I am not SURE of my bet...if I were SURE, it wouldn't be a bet, it would be a deposit into my savings account.

[Classact]

I am not SURE of my bet...if I were SURE, it wouldn't be a bet, it would be a deposit into my savings account.Well I'm sure that there are a lot of Democrats all sweaty handed with butterflies in their stomach and dreaming of the song "Imagine" as the upcoming election approaches. But, The Democratic Party is made up of such a large group of splinters like Environmentalist, anti war and on and on... and when one splinter gets let down their their feelings are hurt and they not only will not vote they will work against those who didn't fully support their agenda. Just watch and learn over the next few weeks.

[retiredman]

Well I'm sure that there are a lot of Democrats all sweaty handed with butterflies in their stomach and dreaming of the song "Imagine" as the upcoming election approaches. But, The Democratic Party is made up of such a large group of splinters like Environmentalist, anti war and on and on... and when one splinter gets let down their their feelings are hurt and they not only will not vote they will work against those who didn't fully support their agenda. Just watch and learn over the next few weeks.

I have been laboring in the vineyards of the democratic party for a long long time and this I know: environmentalists and anti-war activists know that they have ZERO chance of getting anything near their agenda passed with a republican in office. They are not about to work against a democrat to put a republican in there...they will hold their noses and vote for the democrat. the bigger question is whether the religious right will hold THEIR noses and vote for a pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-gun control New York moderate in a race against a pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-gun control New York moderate!

[Classact]

I have been laboring in the vineyards of the democratic party for a long long time and this I know: environmentalists and anti-war activists know that they have ZERO chance of getting anything near their agenda passed with a republican in office. They are not about to work against a democrat to put a republican in there...they will hold their noses and vote for the democrat. the bigger question is whether the religious right will hold THEIR noses and vote for a pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-gun control New York moderate in a race against a pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-gun control New York moderate!Actually, I think those who have their feelings hurt mostly stay home regardless of party. The ace in the hole for the Republicans is Hillary because she will upset those who would otherwise stay at home to go vote.

But there are a lot of things that can adjust emotions between now and voting day. We could be attacked or be in another war... so many possibilities.

The problem is that the Democratic Party has painted themselves into a corner when it comes to Iraq and if they can't change the subject and fast they will have their noses rubbed in the paint.

[retiredman]

Actually, I think those who have their feelings hurt mostly stay home regardless of party. The ace in the hole for the Republicans is Hillary because she will upset those who would otherwise stay at home to go vote.

But there are a lot of things that can adjust emotions between now and voting day. We could be attacked or be in another war... so many possibilities.

The problem is that the Democratic Party has painted themselves into a corner when it comes to Iraq and if they can't change the subject and fast they will have their noses rubbed in the paint.

that is your opinion... I tend to disagree. Hillary versus Rudy and the religious right stays home...and the democrats, hungry to get back in the white house will hold their nose and vote for anyone... imho

[Classact]

that is your opinion... I tend to disagree. Hillary versus Rudy and the religious right stays home...and the democrats, hungry to get back in the white house will hold their nose and vote for anyone... imhoYou think the Democratic Party will be respected if they fold on the war funding and then Bush vetoes every bill they send him. The Daily Kos and Code Pink will continue to support the team... go team!

[Abbey Marie]

that is your opinion... I tend to disagree. Hillary versus Rudy and the religious right stays home...and the democrats, hungry to get back in the white house will hold their nose and vote for anyone... imho

Hillary is exactly the type of lightening rod/polarizing figure whom I believe will make people come out and vote for almost anyone else. This "religious right" person will not stay home, nor will any of my freinds/relatives.

[retiredman]

Hillary is exactly the type of lightening rod/polarizing figure whom I believe will make people come out and vote for almost anyone else. This "religious right" person will not stay home, nor will any of my freinds/relatives.

again.... I understand that is your opinion. Past exit polling shows us that people are much more motivated to get out and vote FOR someone or something than they are to vote AGAINST someone or something. Democrats are motivated to get the republicans out of the white house. The religious right is going to be hard to roust out to vote FOR a guy who is pro-choice, pro-gay rights and pro-gun control, regardless of how much they want to vote AGAINST Hillary....IMHO.

[Classact]

The implosion begins!


Senate Passes Tax Fix
By JIM ABRAMS – 42 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Senate voted Thursday to block a looming tax increase averaging $2,000 for millions of taxpayers after Senate Republicans succeeded in thwarting a Democratic plan to also raise taxes on investors.

The Senate bill, passed 88-5, provides a one-year fix for the alternative minimum tax but without matching the cost of the tax relief with new tax revenues. Without the fix, an estimated 25 million people would be subject to the higher AMT tax, up from 4 million in 2006.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5icrolgbXr0mlnZQmLr-1svIyNDpwD8TC97J01

Do you remember Paygo? The Democratic Budget has just been reduced to the President's budget. That means the Democrats spending bills are all vetoed because they violate their own paygo rules. Their budget was based on a tax increase or keeping the revenue of AMT.

[Kathianne]

again.... I understand that is your opinion. Past exit polling shows us that people are much more motivated to get out and vote FOR someone or something than they are to vote AGAINST someone or something. Democrats are motivated to get the republicans out of the white house. The religious right is going to be hard to roust out to vote FOR a guy who is pro-choice, pro-gay rights and pro-gun control, regardless of how much they want to vote AGAINST Hillary....IMHO.
I agree with that however there is a caveat, (isn't there always?), consider what 'the unmotivated Americans' did regarding the amnesty bill. They forced Congress to vote against what they wanted to vote for. Just a faint hope that the electorate is a bit energized in ways they haven't been for many years. Which way they'll go, if they are? Heck if I know.

[Classact]

I agree with that however there is a caveat, (isn't there always?), consider what 'the unmotivated Americans' did regarding the amnesty bill. They forced Congress to vote against what they wanted to vote for. Just a faint hope that the electorate is a bit energized in ways they haven't been for many years. Which way they'll go, if they are? Heck if I know.NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! you just don't get it... The Party is over! There is a bomb going off in the Democratic Party and they are imploding!

PayGo will be history with this AMT fix! They have no money for touchy feely bloating spending in all the bills that the President says he will veto... Now they have to agree with Bush that they don't have the money to fund the expansion they created in the bills they sent him.

The Farm Bill will destroy each and every Democratic candidate running for President... it will happen this weekend or next week.

The Democratic Energy Bill will be stopped and blamed for the increase in gas costs.

The Democrats will fund the war without strings before Christmas!

I see Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid stepping down in Jan. from their leadership roles, there will be a revolt from within!

Edited to add: Pelosi calls Cheney swipe undignified http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1207/7254.html
The VP pokes fun at the Democratic leadership as wimps.

Cheney bashes top Democrats http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1207/7234.html

[Gaffer]

pelosi and reids only chance for re election is to step down from the leadership roles and become obscure for the next year. They have been shown to be the lying buffoons that they really are and will have to get out of the limelight.

[Classact]

pelosi and reids only chance for re election is to step down from the leadership roles and become obscure for the next year. They have been shown to be the lying buffoons that they really are and will have to get out of the limelight.Check out my edit on my last post... a little salt in the wounds...

[Kathianne]

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! you just don't get it... The Party is over! There is a bomb going off in the Democratic Party and they are imploding!

PayGo will be history with this AMT fix! They have no money for touchy feely bloating spending in all the bills that the President says he will veto... Now they have to agree with Bush that they don't have the money to fund the expansion they created in the bills they sent him.

The Farm Bill will destroy each and every Democratic candidate running for President... it will happen this weekend or next week.

The Democratic Energy Bill will be stopped and blamed for the increase in gas costs.

The Democrats will fund the war without strings before Christmas!

I see Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid stepping down in Jan. from their leadership roles, there will be a revolt from within!

Edited to add: Pelosi calls Cheney swipe undignified http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1207/7254.html
The VP pokes fun at the Democratic leadership as wimps.
I hope you are correct, I doubt it. I know, a great chance to say, "I told you so." If so, I'll certainly, happily, eat crow!

[retiredman]

pelosi and reids only chance for re election is to step down from the leadership roles and become obscure for the next year. They have been shown to be the lying buffoons that they really are and will have to get out of the limelight.

you don't think that san francisco will re-elect Pelosi?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Kathianne]

I don't think the Dems are going to 'implode.' Far from it.

[trobinett]

you don't think that san francisco will re-elect Pelosi?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

NO ONE KNOWS what San Francisco will do.

If you think you do, well, everything you've posted is suspect.:lame2:

[Classact]

NO ONE KNOWS what San Francisco will do.

If you think you do, well, everything you've posted is suspect.:lame2:Nancy Pelosi has had anti war protesters camping out in her lawn for almost a year... Cindy Sheehan plans to take her House seat and probably will when Nancy folds and sends Bush the money just the way he wants it, without strings to support the war.

[retiredman]

NO ONE KNOWS what San Francisco will do.

If you think you do, well, everything you've posted is suspect.:lame2:

please notice that my post began with "you don't think"......NOT "you don't know"

your ability to carry on intelligent conversation using the english language certain IS suspect!

:fu:

[retiredman]

Nancy Pelosi has had anti war protesters camping out in her lawn for almost a year... Cindy Sheehan plans to take her House seat and probably will when Nancy folds and sends Bush the money just the way he wants it, without strings to support the war.


right now, I'd put $100 down that says that Nancy will be easily re-elected. Are you up for it?

[Classact]

right now, I'd put $100 down that says that Nancy will be easily re-elected. Are you up for it?Well that is pretty tempting but I don't really care. The war may be so far in the past by the time she has to run for her seat that they will have forgotten she sent all the money as required by President Bush, and she will send it, without strings and soon.

Paygo is history, without the tax hike to replace AMT loss her budget is the President's budget that she has exceeded on every bill passed so far.

I couldn't figure out San Francisco if I wanted to so I couldn't say what they will stand behind?

[Classact]

Democratic "pucker factor" raised to level "orange" as President Bush refuses to play by their rule book... http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/

[retiredman]

I couldn't figure out San Francisco if I wanted to so I couldn't say what they will stand behind?

well...if that is the case, why did you even bother to open your piehole and spew the following, if you don't have a clue what you are talking about?:laugh2:


Nancy Pelosi has had anti war protesters camping out in her lawn for almost a year... Cindy Sheehan plans to take her House seat and probably will when Nancy folds and sends Bush the money just the way he wants it, without strings to support the war.

[Classact]

well...if that is the case, why did you even bother to open your piehole and spew the following, if you don't have a clue what you are talking about?:laugh2:Well there is some information indicating that she isn't popular even in her hometown... http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree.blogspot.com/2007/07/nancy-pelosi-vs-cindy-sheehan.html How that works out locally I honestly have no idea... I see news programs about SF values and she, Nancy, simply doesn't seem to be representing SF values so I concluded there is a very good chance she could lose her seat.

[retiredman]

Well there is some information indicating that she isn't popular even in her hometown... http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree.blogspot.com/2007/07/nancy-pelosi-vs-cindy-sheehan.html How that works out locally I honestly have no idea... I see news programs about SF values and she, Nancy, simply doesn't seem to be representing SF values so I concluded there is a very good chance she could lose her seat.

you make "conclusions" without much to go on. Nancy Pelosi may have a primary opponent, but she will kick their ass just like she will the republican in the fall. I''d make book on it.

And tell me...do you see the news programs about SF values on Faux News, perhaps?:laugh2:

[Classact]

you make "conclusions" without much to go on. Nancy Pelosi may have a primary opponent, but she will kick their ass just like she will the republican in the fall. I''d make book on it.

And tell me...do you see the news programs about SF values on Faux News, perhaps?:laugh2:Well I do indeed watch Fox news but I also watch the enemy channels too and even CNN reports about how they treat the military and do on.

I actually don't much care about Nancy Pelosi but I do hope she is unable herd cats and loses control of the House of Representatives as she becomes unable to put out the fires that she helped to start.

[glockmail]

again.... I understand that is your opinion. Past exit polling shows us that people are much more motivated to get out and vote FOR someone or something than they are to vote AGAINST someone or something. Democrats are motivated to get the republicans out of the white house. .... You're arguing both sides of the issue here. :lol:

[retiredman]

You're arguing both sides of the issue here. :lol:

not exactly. Republicans would be trying to get out the vote to AGAINST someone (Hillary) ascending to the presidency. democrats are movitated by the past eight years to go out and vote FOR someone NEW to ascend to the the presidency.

[glockmail]

not exactly. Republicans would be trying to get out the vote to AGAINST someone (Hillary) ascending to the presidency. democrats are movitated by the past eight years to go out and vote FOR someone NEW to ascend to the the presidency. Nice re-write.

[retiredman]

Nice re-write.

just a simple clarification. You obviously missed my intent the first time. Just trying to be helpful.

[glockmail]

:pee:
just a simple clarification. You obviously missed my intent the first time. Just trying to be helpful.

[retiredman]

:pee:

succinct, yet as loaded with intelligent content as any of your posts! well done!

[glockmail]

succinct, yet as loaded with intelligent content as any of your posts! well done! :clap::clap: There must have been a sea-change in your life. First you admit that you were wrong, and now you admit that I am right. What's next for you, vote GOP? :coffee:

[retiredman]

I'd sooner stick forks in my eyes.

[glockmail]

I'd sooner stick forks in my eyes. After at least three generations of voting Democrat, I realize that seeing the light will take you a long time.

[red states rule]

Dems are tanking fast. Even other moonbat libs are blasting them

I guess they are not being liberal enough? :lol:

Dems Are Addicted to Backing Down
By Arianna Huffington

"Mostly quiet acquiescence, if not outright support."

That is how, according to the Washington Post, officials present characterized the reaction of lawmakers, including Democrats such as Nancy Pelosi and Jane Harman, when they were briefed in 2002 about waterboarding and other severe interrogation techniques being employed by the CIA.

But it could just as well be the slogan of the Democrats for much of the last six-plus years -- especially on Iraq.

It's no wonder Democrats have already decided to capitulate on the war funding bill coming before Congress next week. As recently as three weeks ago, Speaker Pelosi said there would be no more votes on Iraq funding this year (she said the same thing -- both about no votes this year and no votes in '08 without a withdrawal date -- when I interviewed her in October), and last month Sen. Chuck Schumer thundered, "The days of a free lunch are over."

Well, over in the same way that U.S. state-sanctioned torture is over. Which is to say, not so much.

Why can't the Democrats do anything about it? According to Jim Manley, spokesman for Harry Reid: "Republicans, Republicans, Republicans. The real problem here is the president and his Republican backers" who have "staked out an increasingly hard-lined position."

Republicans taking a hard-line position? Who could've have thunk it? The question for Reid and Pelosi is this: why would the Republicans not be taking increasingly hard-line positions when Democratic opposition to the war -- and the other excesses of the Bush administration -- has been so consistently tepid?

That's why the Washington Post piece about senior Democrats being briefed about waterboarding and other torture practices is both shocking and not shocking.

It's shocking that any American lawmaker -- of either party -- would go along with state-sanctioned torture. But it's not shocking when you realize it's just part of a long line of Democratic "acquiescence." From the outright support of the war authorization (sorry, Hillary, we all know what the bill was about) to the latest surrender on war funding, Republicans know Democrats will bluster...and then cave. So of course they're taking "increasingly hard-lined positions."

According to the Post, when briefed in 2002 about the torture going on, "no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said."

But, of course, it's all the fault of "Republicans, Republicans, Republicans."

As Andrew Sullivan notes, "At best, it seems to me, Democratic resistance to these war crimes was anodyne." (For more on what the destroyed interrogation tapes likely would have shown, read this post by Kevin Drum).

Senator Jay Rockefeller, who can't really decide what he knew about the torture and the tapes and their destruction or when he knew it, now says he was "really disturbed by what I was reading and what we grew to know."

And could there be anything more confused and anodyne than the way Democrats ceded the PR war over the surge to the GOP? Would it have been so hard to point out that the ultimate purpose of the surge was not military but creating the conditions for political stability and reconciliation? Can they not be trusted to remember that far back, all the way to January 2007?

And why are the major Democratic presidential candidates standing on the sidelines when it comes to ending the war and zero tolerance for torture? If they don't show bold leadership now, what is to prevent the Republican nominee - -whoever that is -- from walking all over the Democratic nominee -- whoever that is -- the same way the Bush administration is walking all over congressional Democrats now?

If you want to know what that is going to look like watch the tape of Rudy Giuliani on Meet the Press and you'll get a preview. Here he is on whether the NIE finding that Iran has largely abandoned its nuclear program eliminated the option of a pre-emptive military strike:


"No, I, I don't think it does... The option of this government should be that we don't take any options off the table, and we keep the pressure on them. And of course we don't, we don't want to use the military option. It would be dangerous; it would be risky. But I think it would be more dangerous and more risky if Iran did become a nuclear power."

As Steve Benen at TPM says:


"It must be great to work in the communications staff for a Republican presidential campaign -- you don't have to bother to change the talking points based on new information, you just repeat the old lines as if nothing ever changes."

And that's the point. The Republican aren't going to change. If the disastrous foreign policy the U.S. has pursued for seven years is going to change, it's going to have to be because Democrats force it to change.

And they're not going to do that until they break completely with their past "acquiescence, if not outright support" of that foreign policy. It's like AA -- they first need to admit they have a severe problem, do a serious and fearless political inventory, and then commit to making a change.

Memo to Oprah: while you're on the campaign trail, maybe you can facilitate an intervention. How about you and Dr. Phil show up at the next debate and haul the Democratic frontrunners and the Congressional leadership off to spinal rehab?

Arianna Huffington is co-founder and editor-in-chief of The Huffington Post.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/12/dems_are_addicted_to_backing_d.html