Old Texas man shoots break-in hoodlums

[Classact]

This old dude call the cops and says some pukes are breaking in his neighbors house... goes outside and shot them deader than hell. What say you? Hero or villain? http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=258035

[diuretic]

Murder.

But it's Texas so he'll walk.

[April15]

In my thinking what I heard in the tapes from 911 this man intended to kill the robbers. That they were leaving the house and that the 911 dispatcher expressly told him to stay put makes him a cold ass killer.

[Classact]

Murder.

But it's Texas so he'll walk.Do you think he should walk?

[Classact]

In my thinking what I heard in the tapes from 911 this man intended to kill the robbers. That they were leaving the house and that the 911 dispatcher expressly told him to stay put makes him a cold ass killer.He said he will take his gun.

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,

1. But we have new laws in place that protects private property, with people or not in them.
2. Even if its your neighbor, what if the house had three young teenage girls in it?
3. What if they were illegals too?:poke:
4. There are factors, that the man had to think over, and real fast.
5. He decided to act, and not allow something else bad to happen.
6. These two men were in the wrong, and they ended up paying for it that time.:slap:
7. They had a really bad day.
8. He did the right thing in his *JUDGEMENT*.
9. And in fact he was within *TEXAS LAW*.
10. I guess other burglars should take notice, they may get the heads blown off, *IN TEXAS*.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Classact]

Sorry bout that,

1. But we have new laws in place that protects private property, with people or not in them.
2. Even if its your neighbor, what if the house had three young teenage girls in it?
3. What if they were illegals too?:poke:
4. There are factors, that the man had to think over, and real fast.
5. He decided to act, and not allow something else bad to happen.
6. These two men were in the wrong, and they ended up paying for it that time.:slap:
7. They had a really bad day.
8. He did the right thing in his *JUDGEMENT*.
9. And in fact he was within *TEXAS LAW*.
10. I guess other burglars should take notice, they may get the heads blown off, *IN TEXAS*.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexasI wish the hero all the best!

I was told once by an MP officer that if someone breaks in your home you have a choice to help him load your TV in his vehicle or kill him. You must shoot him on his front side so as to show you were in fear of his attack... If he is outside of your house then just help him load the TV or convince him to turn around and kill him. If you wound him he will sue you and take your house, TV and send you into bankruptcy so just kill him.

[Gunny]

Murder.

But it's Texas so he'll walk.


It isn't murder. Here in Texas, we still hold criminals accountable for their trespasses.

[diuretic]

Do you think he should walk?

No I don't, I think he should be imprisoned for murder.

Having said that I recognise that he will be dealt with according to Texas law and since I'm totally ignorant of it there's not much I can add on that side of the discussion.

[diuretic]

It isn't murder. Here in Texas, we still hold criminals accountable for their trespasses.

It should be murder but as I said, he'll walk. Such is the state of things in Texas.

[hjmick]

What say you? Hero or villain?

I say that the friends of these two dead criminals will probably think twice before breaking into someone's home and robbing them of their hard earned belongings and sense of security.

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,




It should be murder but as I said, he'll walk. Such is the state of things in Texas.



1. In some states, he wouldn't be within the law.
2. But he did what he could.
3. Every bodies different.
4. What would you have done?

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Kathianne]

I've mixed feelings. See part of me is really against the death penalty, for concern that an innocent may die or a true repentant may not be able to prove. At the same time, seems perhaps the road to the end of death penalty is more 'ownership' on the part of those committing crimes. Nothing says 'guilty' like carrying the stuff and being 'nailed' for it.

[Dilloduck]

It should be murder but as I said, he'll walk. Such is the state of things in Texas.

Like you know a lot of Texas LOL:laugh2:

[Gunny]

It should be murder but as I said, he'll walk. Such is the state of things in Texas.

I made my statement to point out the fact I disagree with you. One has a right to protect their property and lives. I don't go bust my ass all day every day so some worthless scumbag can take what he refuses to earn.

I just wish that guy lived next door to me and had been home when my house was broken into last year.

[diuretic]

Sorry bout that,







1. In some states, he wouldn't be within the law.
2. But he did what he could.
3. Every bodies different.
4. What would you have done?

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

What would I have done. Well firstly I would have called the cops, which he did. Then I would have got as much observation as possible of what was happening next door so that I could be in a very good position to give evidence when these people were apprehended.

Now of course that is dependent on the understanding that they were breaking into an empty house, which is, I understand, what was happening.

In my view he went out to shoot dead two criminals who were committing an offence for which there is no death sentence. He wasn't saving someone's life by killing them, he was simply killing them because he wanted to.

If his actions are approved by the courts (that is, if the legislation in Tx is interpreted by the courts as approving of his behaviour which then may become a precedent) then that will say a lot about the value of human life in the Tx justice system. This bloke went hunting for them. He should he imprisoned. He may not be.

[diuretic]

Like you know a lot of Texas LOL:laugh2:

Quite true, I don't. But since Austin is the sister city of our capital city I feel a certain affinity.

[diuretic]

I made my statement to point out the fact I disagree with you. One has a right to protect their property and lives. I don't go bust my ass all day every day so some worthless scumbag can take what he refuses to earn.

I just wish that guy lived next door to me and had been home when my house was broken into last year.

Get a grip Gunny. No-one's life was in danger. Yes, their property was in danger but the penalty for housebreaking in Tx isn't death I would assume. I despise criminals too, but I'm fussy about which ones I would kill.

[manu1959]

the old man should have marched them into his house....

shot them both dead in his house.....

called his attorney then the cops .....

[Gunny]

Get a grip Gunny. No-one's life was in danger. Yes, their property was in danger but the penalty for housebreaking in Tx isn't death I would assume. I despise criminals too, but I'm fussy about which ones I would kill.

I have a firm grip. I will repeat ... you try and take what I bust my ass to earn because you're too lazy to, I'll shoot you full of holes in a heartbeat.

[Kathianne]

Get a grip Gunny. No-one's life was in danger. Yes, their property was in danger but the penalty for housebreaking in Tx isn't death I would assume. I despise criminals too, but I'm fussy about which ones I would kill.

I'm not trying to be cute here, but the guys were shot dead with the loot. Bottom line, I wish those with 'death penalty' sentences were as clear cut. I'd think twice before taking the property of someone close to this guy, wouldn't you?

Now I'm not into sharia law, not close. But whether that or Chinese, there is something to be said for 'swift justice' as a deterrent. Lord knows, 30 years of appeals and then getting too many wrong, doesn't cut it.

[diuretic]

I have a firm grip. I will repeat ... you try and take what I bust my ass to earn because you're too lazy to, I'll shoot you full of holes in a heartbeat.

You'll probably be fine in Tx then.

[diuretic]

I'm not trying to be cute here, but the guys were shot dead with the loot. Bottom line, I wish those with 'death penalty' sentences were as clear cut. I'd think twice before taking the property of someone close to this guy, wouldn't you?

Now I'm not into sharia law, not close. But whether that or Chinese, there is something to be said for 'swift justice' as a deterrent. Lord knows, 30 years of appeals and then getting too many wrong, doesn't cut it.

I'll come right out and say, regardless of the law in Tx, that what this man did was morally wrong. He may not be charged with murder or manslaughter. He may not be convicted even if he is charged. But what he did was morally wrong. Yes, they were thieves, they were committing a moral and legislated wrong, a crime, but his killing them was a greater wrong. His actions are not morally defensible and I'm happy to go to town with that.

[5stringJeff]

I'll come right out and say, regardless of the law in Tx, that what this man did was morally wrong. He may not be charged with murder or manslaughter. He may not be convicted even if he is charged. But what he did was morally wrong. Yes, they were thieves, they were committing a moral and legislated wrong, a crime, but his killing them was a greater wrong. His actions are not morally defensible and I'm happy to go to town with that.

While I don't have any problems with the Texas law, I agree with your post. Were it me, I would have held the two at gunpoint until the cops arrived.

[Abbey Marie]

Since the two men weren't threatening the shooter, or even his property, it's hard for me to see how the shootings were justified.

[Classact]

While I don't have any problems with the Texas law, I agree with your post. Were it me, I would have held the two at gunpoint until the cops arrived.I'd guess that was the old guys plan, but the two young studs thought they could overpower him and have a nice gun to add to their booty to buy more drugs. If you shoot you must shoot to kill because a trial lawyer will destroy you.

There was a long haul truck driver in West Virginia that would have his house broken into every time he went on a trip. So he booby trapped his farm house with a shot gun aiming low at the back door where the break-ins always occurred. The thief came, the gun fired and the thief lost one leg. The thief then had hours to allow him and his lawyers make up stories and sued the driver in civil court. The truck driver lost his house, the stuff in his house, his trailer truck and owes the thief money. Shoot the guy in the face and use something that will kill him.

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,

1. I see it as a *Judgement Call*, he used his judgement, and it was to start firing.
2. He called the cops to alert them to the problem, and then proceeded on to challenge these two.
3. None of us were there, so we don't know all the realities that were on the ground.
4. Could be one or both tried to grab at him, or was trying to circle him.
5. Or had something in his hand that he said, *Drop It!*.
6. So in reality, he made his call, and started blasting, and the, *LAW* was on his side.
7. This act should reverberate through out *TEXAS*, you try to bust into some ones house, or car, you better expect you will get you're head blown off.
8. Cause *TEXANS* have the right to do it.
9. You might want to find a legitimate line of work instead of *STEALING*.
10. I do wonder if they were in this Country legally, which I doubt they were.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Dilloduck]

While I don't have any problems with the Texas law, I agree with your post. Were it me, I would have held the two at gunpoint until the cops arrived.

And if they ran because they didn't think you would shoot them ?

[theHawk]

I think there is alot of assumption going on here. First of all, he probably had no idea that nobody was home. For all he knew, those theives could've assaulted or even killed the home owner/family. We also don't know what happened when he confronted the theives, did they try to run, or did they put their hands up? The least he could of done was tell them to get down on the ground and keep their hands behind their heads until the cops arrived. If they "gave up" so to speak and he executed them, then yea thats murder. But if they resisted, attacked him, or even tried to run off...then thats a different story.

[JohnDoe]

I agree with Abbey and primarily with what Diuretic has stated, it is morally wrong to kill someone that is not trying to kill you....it is murdering them. And as mentioned Robbery is not a death penalty sentence so why should a neighbor who had already called the police be allowed to murder people for Stealing? He should be charged with murder imo. and premeditated at that.... because it is what he planned to do, kill them.

[Dilloduck]

I agree with Abbey and primarily with what Diuretic has stated, it is morally wrong to kill someone that is not trying to kill you....it is murdering them. And as mentioned Robbery is not a death penalty sentence so why should a neighbor who had already called the police be allowed to murder people for Stealing? He should be charged with murder imo. and premeditated at that.... because it is what he planned to do, kill them.

and if someone breaks into you house, you just let them walk out the door with whatever they have and call the cops?

[Immanuel]

I agree with diuretic, Abbey and a couple of others. What these guys were doing was a crime and they should have been apprehended and done jail time for their crimes, but it was murder to go over there and shoot them. The punishment for theft is not death, even in Texas I believe. It does not appear that the theives were threatening anyone.

If he wanted to do the right thing then the old man should have held them at gunpoint and waited for the police to arrive. If he didn't think he could handle them, he shouldn't have been there even the police would not have used the excessive force used in this case and if they had, my guess is they would have been charged with murder themselves. A phone call to the police, a couple of good photos, a license plate number and a description of the hoodlums would have sufficed to do the trick here.

Immie

[JohnDoe]

This from the houston cronicle article on it....


'Not worth killing someone'
Texas law allows people to use deadly force to protect their own property to stop arson, burglary, robbery, theft or criminal mischief at night.

Horn is heard on the recording telling the operator that he has a right to protect himself and under a new law that went into effect in September.

The law, passed earlier this year, gives Texans stronger rights to defend themselves with deadly force, but Sen. Jeff Wentworth, a San Antonio Republican, has said he does not think it would apply in this case.

"Property's not worth killing someone over. OK? Don't go out the house. Don't be shooting nobody," the operator told Horn shortly before he left his home and fired at least two shotgun blasts at the men.

Investigators were taking measurements outside Horn's home in an upper-middle class Village Grove East subdivision near Fairmont and Center.

[Immanuel]

and if someone breaks into you house, you just let them walk out the door with whatever they have and call the cops?

No, I protect myself, defend my family and let the cops deal with the hoods. If these guys were actually threatening someone that would be different but a life, let alone two even theiving pigs, is more valuable than a tv. It doesn't appear there was any threat here at all except for the loss of property and that didn't even have to occur here. He could have stopped them without the use of excessive force or let the cops do it.

Immie

[dan]

I'm with diuretic on this one, as well. Based on the facts available, this guy was definitely in the wrong. I also agree that he'll walk because he's in Texas.

I didn't know Austin was Sydney's sister city. Of course, Austin doesn't really represent Texas as a whole, though I hear it's a pretty great city, never been there myself.

[Dilloduck]

I agree with diuretic, Abbey and a couple of others. What these guys were doing was a crime and they should have been apprehended and done jail time for their crimes, but it was murder to go over there and shoot them. The punishment for theft is not death, even in Texas I believe. It does not appear that the theives were threatening anyone.

If he wanted to do the right thing then the old man should have held them at gunpoint and waited for the police to arrive. If he didn't think he could handle them, he shouldn't have been there even the police would not have used the excessive force used in this case and if they had, my guess is they would have been charged with murder themselves. A phone call to the police, a couple of good photos, a license plate number and a description of the hoodlums would have sufficed to do the trick here.

Immie

It's my understanding that he didn't go over there----they were so close that all he had to to was step out of his door.

[Immanuel]

It's my understanding that he didn't go over there----they were so close that all he had to to was step out of his door.

That even makes it worse... so he was playing shooting gallery?

But, I thought Texas had the biggest... everything... including yards! :)

Immie

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,

1. But Americans needs to stand up and fight back against being ripped off.
2. If a man wants to steal from you, if he mistakenly breaks into your house while you are there, he might even kill you.
3. You just can't ever tell if they are good natured thieves.
4. So to be on the safe side, *Blast Em*!
5. People shouldn't have to *Ask questions first, then start blasting*.
6. It should be, *Shoot first, then ask questions later*.
7. When it comes to thieves attacking your property.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[JohnDoe]

and if someone breaks into you house, you just let them walk out the door with whatever they have and call the cops? Well, that is NOT what happened here Dillo, is it? I suppose this means that you think it was okay for this man to murder these robbers?

But as far as your scenario, according to Texas Law, you can shoot a burglar in your own home.

But yes, if they were not armed and not threatening me in any way, I would memorize what they looked like, what they sounded like, what they were wearing, and what they were driving away in and allow the police to do their jobs.

If I felt threatened, and felt they were going to hurt me, I would shoot them, before they shot me, if I had the opportunity to do so.

jd

[Classact]

Sorry bout that,

1. But Americans needs to stand up and fight back against being ripped off.
2. If a man wants to steal from you, if he mistakenly breaks into your house while you are there, he might even kill you.
3. You just can't ever tell if they are good natured thieves.
4. So to be on the safe side, *Blast Em*!
5. People shouldn't have to *Ask questions first, then start blasting*.
6. It should be, *Shoot first, then ask questions later*.
7. When it comes to thieves attacking your property.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexasStealing isn't a crime punishable by death but if you look at these two who did the break in I'd guess it wasn't their first. The bad guys either jumped him or refused to halt to his gun threat to hold them for the police, the bad guys made a bad mistake.

It could have went another way, the old dude could have cowered away inside of his house, called 9-11 and waited... no description of the bad guys, their car or even if there were bad guys there... they could have departed before the police arrived and got off scott free. I think the message is harsh but should be a cause for pause if you are considering funding your habit from a private property or person.

[Immanuel]

Sorry bout that,

1. But Americans needs to stand up and fight back against being ripped off.
2. If a man wants to steal from you, if he mistakenly breaks into your house while you are there, he might even kill you.
3. You just can't ever tell if they are good natured thieves.
4. So to be on the safe side, *Blast Em*!
5. People shouldn't have to *Ask questions first, then start blasting*.
6. It should be, *Shoot first, then ask questions later*.
7. When it comes to thieves attacking your property.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

That is all well and good if they are in your home and you are there. Then they are threatening you. That wasn't the case here. Assuming that there might have been children next door doesn't cut it.

Also, Classact, mentioned the case of the long haul truck driver from WV. I thought it was Illinois, but may be wrong there. In that case, the truck driver set a trap for the crooks and there was no one home and no one threatened. I believe he was convicted of attempted murder and excessive use of force here.

I remember the little bit of law enforcement training I had in the Coast Guard. I'm no expert, but I remember being told that I could not use excessive force to bring down a criminal.

This old man had better find an attorney that will claim and prove self-defense or he will not walk, even in Texas.

Immie

[JohnDoe]

This man was clearly in the wrong and his own life was not threatened at all....I believe he should have followed the dispatcher's orders and stayed in his own house.

Texas law should not protect him in this case, because it was not HIS HOME, nor was he threatened by them robbing a neighbor's house.

I could be harsh by saying he murdered them, and premeditated at that....so I could be wrong on this but it sure seems like he PLANNED to kill these robbers.

He thought Texas law allowed him to kill the neighbor's robbers, but it does not allow him to kill a robber that is not in his own home or who is not threatening him.

jd

[theHawk]

Stealing isn't a crime punishable by death but if you look at these two who did the break in I'd guess it wasn't their first. The bad guys either jumped him or refused to halt to his gun threat to hold them for the police, the bad guys made a bad mistake.

It could have went another way, the old dude could have cowered away inside of his house, called 9-11 and waited... no description of the bad guys, their car or even if there were bad guys there... they could have departed before the police arrived and got off scott free. I think the message is harsh but should be a cause for pause if you are considering funding your habit from a private property or person.

Yes, stealing isn't going to get someone executed by the government if convicted, but then again neither is rape or even child molestation. That doesn't mean we don't have the right to use leathal force to stop those crimes when caught in the act.

[JohnDoe]

Yes, stealing isn't going to get someone executed by the government if convicted, but then again neither is rape or even child molestation. That doesn't mean we don't have the right to use leathal force to stop those crimes when caught in the act.


Texas law allows you to shoot a robber in your own home now. It does not allow you to kill robbers of no threat to you, at someone elses home.

I believe this man broke the law.

no one was vividly being harmed by the robbers, unlike your other scenarios that mentions you being a witness to someone being raped or a child being molested, so I would imagine that this would be allowed, in order to stop a crime against humanity.

jd

[Classact]

Yes, stealing isn't going to get someone executed by the government if convicted, but then again neither is rape or even child molestation. That doesn't mean we don't have the right to use leathal force to stop those crimes when caught in the act.I had a little 11 acre dude farm when I was stationed in NC and it was down the end of a dirt road, a dead end dirt road to my farm. My wife was on swing shift at Burlington Mill... as she came home that evening she was blowing her horn all the way up the lane and right behind her was another car chasing her... I flipped on the light and as she turned the bend the guy stopped as he saw me standing outside of the door. I reached in the house and grabbed my deer rifle and put two rounds in the back door of his car and I was hoping he was alone in the car. I wanted him to make a complaint so I would know who he was. He didn't. I hate to think what would have happened if I had not been home.

[Immanuel]

I had a little 11 acre dude farm when I was stationed in NC and it was down the end of a dirt road, a dead end dirt road to my farm. My wife was on swing shift at Burlington Mill... as she came home that evening she was blowing her horn all the way up the lane and right behind her was another car chasing her... I flipped on the light and as she turned the bend the guy stopped as he saw me standing outside of the door. I reached in the house and grabbed my deer rifle and put two rounds in the back door of his car and I was hoping he was alone in the car. I wanted him to make a complaint so I would know who he was. He didn't. I hate to think what would have happened if I had not been home.

Good thing you were there and in this case you probably would not have been charged based on the info you gave here. The other driver appears to have been a clear threat. With road rage as it is now, she could have simply not been driving fast enough for the other driver and pissed him (assuming it was a him) off. I doubt that you would have been charged in this case. You have the right to defend yourself and your family.

Immie

[Classact]

Good thing you were there and in this case you probably would not have been charged based on the info you gave here. The other driver appears to have been a clear threat. With road rage as it is now, she could have simply not been driving fast enough for the other driver and pissed him (assuming it was a him) off. I doubt that you would have been charged in this case. You have the right to defend yourself and your family.

ImmieNo, my wife was Korean and quite a hot little thing... she told me that he, a very large black man had scoped her out at a traffic light and had tried to force her off the road a couple times and the rage was in his groin and no other place... she looked like an easy target but as it turned out I guess he had to clean the shit out of his groin area when he got home.

[Dilloduck]

I'm with diuretic on this one, as well. Based on the facts available, this guy was definitely in the wrong. I also agree that he'll walk because he's in Texas.

I didn't know Austin was Sydney's sister city. Of course, Austin doesn't really represent Texas as a whole, though I hear it's a pretty great city, never been there myself.

In Austin a cop was convicted and fired for shooting a woman attacking a social worker with a knife--they called it "improper use of deadly force" --go figure.

[Classact]

In Austin a cop was convicted and fired for shooting a woman attacking a social worker with a knife--they called it "improper use of deadly force" --go figure.It would all be about the situation, if the cop could have stopped the assault with lesser force he should have. Normally cops are judged by a woman man confrontation or even the size of the man in comparison to the cop. Minimum force is always the rule.

In the case of the old man the two young men running towards him without a weapon could be enough justification for deadly force. He only has to prove he was in fear of his life.

[Immanuel]

It would all be about the situation, if the cop could have stopped the assault with lesser force he should have. Normally cops are judged by a woman man confrontation or even the size of the man in comparison to the cop. Minimum force is always the rule.

In the case of the old man the two young men running towards him without a weapon could be enough justification for deadly force. He only has to prove he was in fear of his life.

That is why I said he needs to hire a good lawyer who can prove that this was self-defense. If not, even in Texas his goose is cooked.

Immie

[JohnDoe]

It would all be about the situation, if the cop could have stopped the assault with lesser force he should have. Normally cops are judged by a woman man confrontation or even the size of the man in comparison to the cop. Minimum force is always the rule.

In the case of the old man the two young men running towards him without a weapon could be enough justification for deadly force. He only has to prove he was in fear of his life.
And him not following the police dispatcher's orders to STAY in his own home?

And him telling the police dispatcher that he was going to kill them, and that he thought he had a right to kill them under Texas law, which was not TRUE?

I agree we don't have the full investigation done yet, and we don't know if they were trying to charge him, but it did not say that this was the case, at least not from the article that I read on it?

jd

[Dilloduck]

And him not following the police dispatcher's orders to STAY in his own home?

And him telling the police dispatcher that he was going to kill them, and that he thought he had a right to kill them under Texas law, which was not TRUE?

I agree we don't have the full investigation done yet, and we don't know if they were trying to charge him, but it did not say that this was the case, at least not from the article that I read on it?

jd

There is something about watching you neighbors home being robbed and doing NOTHING that sits in a persons craw. Ask a cop how handcuffed they are.

[JohnDoe]

There is something about watching you neighbors home being robbed and doing NOTHING that sits in a persons craw. Ask a cop how handcuffed they are.Yes, I can understand that, but it does not negate the fact that he was told to stay in the house and wait for the police, and it was against the law for him to kill these two men, UNLESS they were trying to kill him or hurt him.

He can plead temporary insanity maybe? But it sounds like it was premeditated on his part, he planned to kill them, he told the dispatcher he was going to kill them and that he thought texas laww allowed him to do such, WHICH IS NOT THE CASE.... but exactly what he did.

And this old man says that he did not even know his neighbors?

he should have followed the orders of the Police Dispatcher and stayed in his own home....and gathered as much physical description that he could, on the burglars imo.

jd

[Classact]

And him not following the police dispatcher's orders to STAY in his own home?

And him telling the police dispatcher that he was going to kill them, and that he thought he had a right to kill them under Texas law, which was not TRUE?

I agree we don't have the full investigation done yet, and we don't know if they were trying to charge him, but it did not say that this was the case, at least not from the article that I read on it?

jdNot knowing the specifics of the new law I don't know if he was in legal limits or not. Just before the first shot rang out a warning was given, move and you're dead. In most states you would have to prove you feared for your life to use deadly force. We don't know if the first shot was a warning and the two following the ones that killed the two pukes? If they were shot fleeing I'd guess he is in trouble, but if they tried to rush him then he is within his rights.

Edited to add: Perhaps the first shot came from the bad guys?

[Dilloduck]

Not knowing the specifics of the new law I don't know if he was in legal limits or not. Just before the first shot rang out a warning was given, move and you're dead. In most states you would have to prove you feared for your life to use deadly force. We don't know if the first shot was a warning and the two following the ones that killed the two pukes? If they were shot fleeing I'd guess he is in trouble, but if they tried to rush him then he is within his rights.

Edited to add: Perhaps the first shot came from the bad guys?


I guess the argument here is that it's not fair to kill someone who is only robbing someone ?

[JohnDoe]

I guess the argument here is that it's not fair to kill someone who is only robbing someone ?


Here is the houston Cronicle's article about it. Perhaps when we get the neighbors that might have witnessed this statement's, we will know more.

But what we do know, is that he stated he was going to kill them to the dispatcher, before he left the safety of his own home.

We also know that the dispatcher told him not to leave his house and go outside.

We know that the dispatcher told him that it was not worth killing them for stealing.

And we know that these 2 were burglars, NOT robbers, which means they had no weapons on them, according to the article.

What we don't know is if these men were trying to charge him, thus self defense.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5306638.html

[Dilloduck]

Here is the houston Cronicle's article about it. Perhaps when we get the neighbors that might have witnessed this statement's, we will no more.

But what we do know, is that he stated he was going to kill them to the dispatcher, before he left the safety of his own home.

We also know that the dispatcher told him not to leave his house and go outside.

We know that the dispatcher told him that it was not worth killing them for stealing.

And we know that these 2 were burglars, NOT robbers, which means they had no weapons on them, according to the article.

What we don't know is if these men were trying to charge him, thus self defense.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5306638.html

Then obviously this guy should face 2 death penalties.

[diuretic]

I'm with diuretic on this one, as well. Based on the facts available, this guy was definitely in the wrong. I also agree that he'll walk because he's in Texas.

I didn't know Austin was Sydney's sister city. Of course, Austin doesn't really represent Texas as a whole, though I hear it's a pretty great city, never been there myself.

Adelaide is the sister city because the state, South Australia, was founded in the same year as Tx - 1836 :) I was actually in Austin a few years ago staying in a condo right opposite that impressive capitol building and a local cable channel had a show on about my city. Made me fair homesick it did :laugh2:

[diuretic]

In Austin a cop was convicted and fired for shooting a woman attacking a social worker with a knife--they called it "improper use of deadly force" --go figure.

When I hit the road (when I'm operational I mean) I carry a revolver, oc spray, an ASP baton and cuffs - no taser. In that situation I am going to shoot the knife-wielder. I will walk even here (mind you that won't be until after a trial). No way would I consider any other use of force.

[diuretic]

Here is the houston Cronicle's article about it. Perhaps when we get the neighbors that might have witnessed this statement's, we will no more.

But what we do know, is that he stated he was going to kill them to the dispatcher, before he left the safety of his own home.

We also know that the dispatcher told him not to leave his house and go outside.

We know that the dispatcher told him that it was not worth killing them for stealing.

And we know that these 2 were burglars, NOT robbers, which means they had no weapons on them, according to the article.

What we don't know is if these men were trying to charge him, thus self defense.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5306638.html

Good that the authorities are being calm over this and not reacting too hastily. Having said that this bloke is in big trouble, after reading the article. He went hunting. He may not walk after all.

[Dilloduck]

When I hit the road (when I'm operational I mean) I carry a revolver, oc spray, an ASP baton and cuffs - no taser. In that situation I am going to shoot the knife-wielder. I will walk even here (mind you that won't be until after a trial). No way would I consider any other use of force.

The NAACP lawyers and Johnny Cochran (God rest his soul) came to help him lose his job.

[diuretic]

The NAACP lawyers and Johnny Cochran (God rest his soul) came to help him lose his job.

I would have that the APOA would have helped, they're affiliated with CLEAT, CLEAT has some great lawyers and their head office is in Austin, I'm surprised he got hammered. Anyway from what I know about it, totally wrong, he had no choice but to use lethal force.

Even here where we have very strong controls over police use of force at all levels (which fair enough, I wouldn't want to live in a jurisdiction that was lax on that) that would have been justified.

Just an aside, at my last qualification shoot I was given a FATSII simulator assessment and had a similar scenario. It was a simunition shoot. I did what was legally acceptable and practically necessary in the simulator, "shot" the "offender who was stabbing a man on the ground. The only comment from the instructor was, "we usually don't encourage you to put all six shots into the suspect....."

[Gunny]

You'll probably be fine in Tx then.

Since I'm from here and live here, probably. I'd rather be here than somewhere I was expected to just stand and watch thieves roll up with a U Haul and load my stuff and long as they didn't threaten me, I couldn't do a damned thing about it.

[diuretic]

Since I'm from here and live here, probably. I'd rather be here than somewhere I was expected to just stand and watch thieves roll up with a U Haul and load my stuff and long as they didn't threaten me, I couldn't do a damned thing about it.

Gunny........Gunny.........Gunny (no, that's not a Cary Grant imitation)

Where did I suggest no-one do a damned thing about it?

Calling the cops was a good citizen act for sure, you know and I know that many people would have shrugged their shoulders and "none of my business" gone back to Dr Phil. This bloke at least called the cops. That's where it should have stayed. No-one wants Neighbourhood Watch with a Gun.

I know your own suggested scenario is hypothetical but no, I wouldn't expect someone to stand by while thieves loaded their stuff up in a U-Haul and shot through. I'd expect them to give the thieves a hand, that's hard work stealing someone's stuff :laugh2:

Hah just kidding.

I bloody well hate thieves, hate the bastards, I can understand people getting a bit of biff on on a Saturday night down the pub, it happens, but thieving is cold-blooded crime and thieves are scum. But they don't deserve to be killed for thieving.

[Gunny]

Gunny........Gunny.........Gunny (no, that's not a Cary Grant imitation)

Where did I suggest no-one do a damned thing about it?

Calling the cops was a good citizen act for sure, you know and I know that many people would have shrugged their shoulders and "none of my business" gone back to Dr Phil. This bloke at least called the cops. That's where it should have stayed. No-one wants Neighbourhood Watch with a Gun.

I know your own suggested scenario is hypothetical but no, I wouldn't expect someone to stand by while thieves loaded their stuff up in a U-Haul and shot through. I'd expect them to give the thieves a hand, that's hard work stealing someone's stuff :laugh2:

Hah just kidding.

I bloody well hate thieves, hate the bastards, I can understand people getting a bit of biff on on a Saturday night down the pub, it happens, but thieving is cold-blooded crime and thieves are scum. But they don't deserve to be killed for thieving.

Problem is, they count on people like you, and it actually emboldens them. The worse they have to fear is maybe getting caught. Probably gives a thief a WHOLE different mindset if he thinks he might get killed for his crime.

[diuretic]

Problem is, they count on people like you, and it actually emboldens them. The worse they have to fear is maybe getting caught. Probably gives a thief a WHOLE different mindset if he thinks he might get killed for his crime.

Gunny, some advice. Find a time machine. Set it for the late 19th Century, location, west of the Pecos. Kick it in and say hello to Judge Roy Bean for me.

I read your paragraph and I can't take it seriously, really, so that's my slightly satirical response.

[Nukeman]

You all should take a look at this video of the "new black panthers"(jerks) trying to hold some kind of rally around the guys house. The thing I find great is that the people in the neighborhood stood up to these guys and basicly forced them to leave with no violence or rascist terms thrown out there.


link...
http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=8973

I find it ironic that the "new black panthers" would be willing to put forth an effort to defend the "burglars". I dont think the guy should have killed the two thieves, however I WASN'T THERE TO SEE THE WHOLE THING UNFOLD...
Neither were anyone else on this sight so everything we say is pure speculation....

Also to the person who said..."is it right to kill them since they were just robbing the place
". My answer to that is, people have been killed/raped in home invasions because they happen to be home, and not necessarily with guns either. Saying these men were not armed, doesn't mean they couldn't have decided to kill someone.

[hjmick]

I just watched this video, I'm not sure how I feel. On one level I found the mob mentality disturbing and was rather surprised that things didn't get out of hand. On the other hand, the fact that things didn't turn violent speaks volumes. I got the impression the the chants of "U.S.A. U.S.A." were chosen because it was easier to yell than a well thought out slogan. I though I heard shout "nigger" towards the end, though I could be wrong, otherwise the lack of racial epithets was admirable.

The Panthers had a right to protest, albeit for publicity more than anything else, but the supporters of Joe Horn had a right to counter protest.

[Classact]

I just watched this video, I'm not sure how I feel. On one level I found the mob mentality disturbing and was rather surprised that things didn't get out of hand. On the other hand, the fact that things didn't turn violent speaks volumes. I got the impression the the chants of "U.S.A. U.S.A." were chosen because it was easier to yell than a well thought out slogan. I though I heard shout "nigger" towards the end, though I could be wrong, otherwise the lack of racial epithets was admirable.

The Panthers had a right to protest, albeit for publicity more than anything else, but the supporters of Joe Horn had a right to counter protest.I watched the film on CNN today and they said that both groups were outside groups... the supporters were there just to balance out against the black protesters and yes, there were high emotions and I was surprised no one went to jail before it was over.

I think black people, no... some black people think they have the right as unfortunate folks, to get away with crime... they think too many blacks are in jail and simply dismiss the crime since it is whitie's fault they don't have money. The Democrats have told them for so long they are unfortunate that they really believe it.

[hjmick]

And who would have guessed, the dead burglars were in the country illegally. One had been deported back in '99 after a cocaine conviction. They were bath from Columbia, and one had two different I.D.s, not in his real name. Police are looking into the possibility that they were part of a burglary ring that preyed primarily on immigrants.

2 shot in Pasadena here illegally (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5359290.html)

[Trigg]

And who would have guessed, the dead burglars were in the country illegally. One had been deported back in '99 after a cocaine conviction. They were bath from Columbia, and one had two different I.D.s, not in his real name. Police are looking into the possibility that they were part of a burglary ring that preyed primarily on immigrants.

2 shot in Pasadena here illegally (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5359290.html)

I was just about to post this very same article.

From the beginning, I've thought the guy should have stayed inside his house. However, once he stepped outside I've come to think he probably was threatened. It's coming to light that these two men are career criminals and the cops aren't even sure what their real names are yet.


Police found a Puerto Rican identification card on Ortiz. He had two aliases.

Torres had identification cards from Colombia, Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic. He had three aliases

[Dilloduck]

Gunny........Gunny.........Gunny (no, that's not a Cary Grant imitation)

Where did I suggest no-one do a damned thing about it?

Calling the cops was a good citizen act for sure, you know and I know that many people would have shrugged their shoulders and "none of my business" gone back to Dr Phil. This bloke at least called the cops. That's where it should have stayed. No-one wants Neighbourhood Watch with a Gun.

I know your own suggested scenario is hypothetical but no, I wouldn't expect someone to stand by while thieves loaded their stuff up in a U-Haul and shot through. I'd expect them to give the thieves a hand, that's hard work stealing someone's stuff :laugh2:

Hah just kidding.

I bloody well hate thieves, hate the bastards, I can understand people getting a bit of biff on on a Saturday night down the pub, it happens, but thieving is cold-blooded crime and thieves are scum. But they don't deserve to be killed for thieving.

People who take do illegal things often get worse than they "deserve". When they entered the house to rip it off, they were willing to take the risk of being legally shot by the owners anyway. The victims of thieves rarely get any of the justice that THEY deserve !

[trobinett]

This old dude call the cops and says some pukes are breaking in his neighbors house... goes outside and shot them deader than hell. What say you? Hero or villain? http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=258035

HERO, no question about it.

I didn't even look at the rest of the respondents.

We need more like him, and then there would be LESS like these two losers.

Just like the piece of shit, that ran from the cops in Miami, and then claimed the cops should have stopped the pursuit.

We live in a strange and fucked up world people.:slap: