Sampson - the suicide bomber

[carbonbased]

Alright, from the humor section of all places.

I take the position that Sampson is fully comparable to a modern fanatic suicide bomber.

He begs God to give him back his strength one last time in order to kill his enemies, along with himself.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=160820

[darin]

...they weren't just his enemies. They were enemies of God. And God granted Samson's request. Killing EVIL people is fine.

Look, if I were told "Darin, if you strap a saddle on this MOAB, and ride it down to the ground, you'll kill 10,000 islamic terrorist assholes - if you don't, nobody will be able to stop them." I'd do it. Would I be a suicide bomber? Maybe technically.

Would it be true and noble and just? Sure.

[carbonbased]

...they weren't just his enemies. They were enemies of God. And God granted Samson's request. Killing EVIL people is fine.

Look, if I were told "Darin, if you strap a saddle on this MOAB, and ride it down to the ground, you'll kill 10,000 islamic terrorist assholes - if you don't, nobody will be able to stop them." I'd do it. Would I be a suicide bomber? Maybe technically.

Would it be true and noble and just? Sure.

:)
Yes, I know what you mean.

But a terrorist might think exactly the same way about one of our military bases. To him we would be the unstoppable assholes and he would think he did something good and noble.

It is a sin to kill yourself. Christians have no virgins waiting for them... no matter how "just" the killing was.

[darin]

But the terrorist is WRONG.

It's not a sin, neccessarily, to kill oneself. That conclusion just isn't supported in the bible.

What you're missing here is this - MOST suicide bombers kill INNOCENTS. They don't attack Military Bases - they attack SHOPPING MALLS.

:(

[Hobbit]

Yeah, if the suicide bombers were only attacking military targets, they wouldn't be so horrible, and I wouldn't have such a problem with it. However, these terrorists target civilians because they're easier targets.

[glockmail]

In WW2 the Japanese had suicide bombers. They were called Kamikazes. I don’t recall any of them attacking civilians.

[carbonbased]

But the terrorist is WRONG.

It's not a sin, neccessarily, to kill oneself. That conclusion just isn't supported in the bible.

What you're missing here is this - MOST suicide bombers kill INNOCENTS. They don't attack Military Bases - they attack SHOPPING MALLS.

:(
Okay, I don't disregard that. It is the truth, but WE don't educate soldiers to perform suicide attacks on any target. I think WE think it is actually wrong by definition. I will give you the Bible interpretators right here though.

So... what do you think, suicide attacks are okay (given a valid target)? In that case you have no problem with the comparison? Or is it perhaps something missing here. I actually started to think about that Sampson lost his power as a punishment in a way - and regained it. I don't know. Perhaps focusing on his death makes me miss something.


Yeah, if the suicide bombers were only attacking military targets, they wouldn't be so horrible, and I wouldn't have such a problem with it. However, these terrorists target civilians because they're easier targets.

Opinions from the attacked party I guess, but what about carrying those attacks out yourself?
I still have a problem with that chapter... it just won't settle.

The servant leading Sampson to the pillars, was he evil? Or a slave himself? No, the attack Sampson made was not 100% clean, probably got some innocent killed too...



In WW2 the Japanese had suicide bombers. They were called Kamikazes. I don’t recall any of them attacking civilians.

Hey! A much better comparison! Sampson was more of a Kamikaze pilot. (Suicide bomber is loaded with other attributes, the Kamikaze is clean)

Was the Kamikaze strikes a christian behaviour? (Except from being 100% bushido ofcourse - you know what I mean)

[darin]

There are a couple ways to interpret 'suicide'.

If I were attacking Aliens in my F/A 18 Hornet, and one of my sidewiders wouldn't disengage from the wing, I'd absolutely fly up into their mothership to destroy them.

Suicide? Or "laying down one's life, for (the greater good)?"

Islamo-Terrorists, however, target INNOCENTS. Not Enemies. They say "None are innocent! ALL are enemies" in an effort to convince themselves their cause is ANYTHING but PURE, RAW, EVILNESS.

Do you see Evil in Samson's actions?

[Hagbard Celine]

Alright, from the humor section of all places.

I take the position that Sampson is fully comparable to a modern fanatic suicide bomber.

He begs God to give him back his strength one last time in order to kill his enemies, along with himself.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=160820

I think from the point of view of the Jews, he would technically be a "martyr." And that's how we should probably view him as well since he was being oppressed by the people he killed.

[Abbey Marie]

One could argue that getting off those ships at Normandy was for most a suicide mission. Yet most would say the cause was noble. I think the reason for the operation is more important than the certainty of one's own death. Much like Sampson.

[darin]

Indeed. Context dictates.

[Hobbit]

I don't think one should actively seek one's own death in order to kill enemies, but it is noble to sacrifice yourself to defeat evil.

In other words, if I'm in combat and my death is the only way to, say, save the lives of my entire squad, then I'll see you in the sweet bye and bye, but I'm not going to strap on a bomb and charge into enemies with the intent of dying.

I don't think Samson did any wrong. He was commanded to defeat the Philistines, and in this instance, he was blinded and kept prisoner in a temple of evil (Baal was not a nice god, what with the human sacrifices and all). I think bringing that monument to blasphemy down on his own head was really the only way to 'escape.'

[Gaffer]

Sampson did something suicidal. But was not out to commit suicide. He could hope that god would shield him in some way and he could survive. The hope of surviving is the difference between suicide and a suicidal act.

[diuretic]

It is about context and it's also about perspective.

Anyway most of these suicide bombers (if not all of them) aren't volunteers.

[Gaffer]

It is about context and it's also about perspective.

Anyway most of these suicide bombers (if not all of them) aren't volunteers.

What are they then?

[diuretic]

What are they then?

I think some are forced into it, either directly or through threats to family. Some definitely think it's a great idea, that they'll become martyrs and end up in paradise but from what I've read and been told there is evidence to suggest that many are pressed into service to drive the bomb-laden vehicle or to strap on the bomb belt.

There is some discussion concerning the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka who have used women as suicide bombers and their allegedly forcing those women to strap on a bomb belt and infiltrate crowds.

Now you're going to ask for links. Haven't got any. Just what I read and what a former colleague passed on concerning his (private security) service in Afghanistan. The anecdote about a hand in handcuffs sort of stuck in my mind. But no, I can't point to any hard evidence.

But it seems to me that pressing people into this sort of terrible service is ultimately self-defeating.

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,

1. But Sampson didn't commit suicide.
2. He was powerless, they shaved his head, his power was in his hair.
3. The enemy plucked his eyes out.
4. And were bullying him around and adding shame to his misfortune.
5. They were tormenting him, while spitting in his face.
6. He didn't no more knock down the building than I did, God did it, or allowed Sampson to do it., with HIS help.
7. Thats how God works some times.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Gaffer]

I think some are forced into it, either directly or through threats to family. Some definitely think it's a great idea, that they'll become martyrs and end up in paradise but from what I've read and been told there is evidence to suggest that many are pressed into service to drive the bomb-laden vehicle or to strap on the bomb belt.

There is some discussion concerning the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka who have used women as suicide bombers and their allegedly forcing those women to strap on a bomb belt and infiltrate crowds.

Now you're going to ask for links. Haven't got any. Just what I read and what a former colleague passed on concerning his (private security) service in Afghanistan. The anecdote about a hand in handcuffs sort of stuck in my mind. But no, I can't point to any hard evidence.

But it seems to me that pressing people into this sort of terrible service is ultimately self-defeating.

Not asking for links. Was just curious what you meant by that. I'm sure some are forced into it in some way. But I think most are looking for martyrdom, and volunteering for the honors.

They are very similar to the kamikaze's. The same reward of going straight to heaven. Suicide to kill your enemy was and is the highest honor in both cultures.

Bushido was outlawed in Japan by MacArthur after the war. It could be practiced by individuals but not by the government in anyway. That's the only way islam is going to be defeated. Because the west is too pc it's going to take a real long time and some really major casualties to wake the west up.