As Democrats See Security Gains in Iraq, Tone Shifts

[-Cp]

LOL – It must really be a bummer to constantly be on the wrong side of history time and time again…

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/us/politics/25dems.html?ei=5065&en=790f06535d9a5ea7&ex=1196571600&adxnnl=1&partner=MYWAY&adxnnlx=1195930847-xrlMleXS/EfHPOXHzQDwig

I can’t help be reminded of Zell Miller’s (Democrat) speech at the 2004 RNC:

Time after time in our history, in the face of great danger, Democrats and Republicans worked together to ensure that freedom would not falter. But not today.

Motivated more by partisan politics than by national security, today's Democratic leaders see America as an occupier, not a liberator.

And nothing makes this Marine madder than someone calling American troops occupiers rather than liberators.

Tell that to the one-half of Europe that was freed because Franklin Roosevelt led an army of liberators, not occupiers.

Tell that to the lower half of the Korean Peninsula that is free because Dwight Eisenhower commanded an army of liberators, not occupiers.

Tell that to the half a billion men, women and children who are free today from the Baltics to the Crimea, from Poland to Siberia, because Ronald Reagan rebuilt a military of liberators, not occupiers.

Never in the history of the world has any soldier sacrificed more for the freedom and liberty of total strangers than the American soldier. And, our soldiers don't just give freedom abroad, they preserve it for us here at home.

For it has been said so truthfully that it is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech.

It is the soldier, not the agitator, who has given us the freedom to protest.

It is the soldier who salutes the flag, serves beneath the flag, whose coffin is draped by the flag, who gives that protester the freedom to abuse and burn that flag.

No one should dare to even think about being the Commander in Chief of this country if he doesn't believe with all his heart that our soldiers are liberators abroad and defenders of freedom at home.

But don't waste your breath telling that to the leaders of my party today. In their warped way of thinking America is the problem, not the solution.

They don't believe there is any real danger in the world except that which America brings upon itself through our clumsy and misguided foreign policy.

It is not their patriotism — it is their judgment that has been so sorely lacking. They claimed Carter's pacifism would lead to peace.

They were wrong.

They claimed Reagan's defense buildup would lead to war.

They were wrong.

[Psychoblues]

Absolutely hilarious, cp!!!!!!!!!!!!



You must be one of those Zell Miller Democrats?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[theHawk]

You must be one of those Zell Miller Democrats?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Whats the matter? Can't dispute one thing Zell said? :finger3:

[Psychoblues]

Not only that but I don't care to try!!!!!!



Whats the matter? Can't dispute one thing Zell said? :finger3:

Give your love to Zell, hawk, he needs you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bullypulpit]

The "security gains" in Iraq are the result of Sunnis and Shi'ias laggering up in their own neighborhoods, resulting in the division of Baghdad into numerous ethnic enclaves. The Sunni/Shi'ia violence continues with US troop caught in the middle. However, Chimpy McPresident's signing of a "declaration of principles" with Nuri al-Maliki on Monday represents his administration coming down on the side of the Shi'ites in Iraq's civil war. I'm certain our good Sunni friends in Saudi Arabia will have nothing to say about that.

[Gaffer]

The "security gains" in Iraq are the result of Sunnis and Shi'ias laggering up in their own neighborhoods, resulting in the division of Baghdad into numerous ethnic enclaves. The Sunni/Shi'ia violence continues with US troop caught in the middle. However, Chimpy McPresident's signing of a "declaration of principles" with Nuri al-Maliki on Monday represents his administration coming down on the side of the Shi'ites in Iraq's civil war. I'm certain our good Sunni friends in Saudi Arabia will have nothing to say about that.

If you close your eyes and cover your ears and say nanananana. You won't hear or see anything and it will all go away.

You are right in one sense. The iraqi's are stepping up to the plate and taking over security. They are doing it more every day. And as they do we step back. That was the plan from the beginning.

There is NO civil war in iraq. The libs like you are wrong again, like you are on EVERYTHING. Go sit in the corner and suck your thumb and pretend nothing is going on in the world. Your dreams of a lost iraq and collapse of our military have been shattered. :fu:

[glockmail]

.....Your dreams of a lost iraq and collapse of our military have been shattered. :fu::clap::clap::clap:

[darin]

The "security gains" in Iraq are the result of Sunnis and Shi'ias laggering up in their own neighborhoods, resulting in the division of Baghdad into numerous ethnic enclaves. The Sunni/Shi'ia violence continues with US troop caught in the middle. However, Chimpy McPresident's signing of a "declaration of principles" with Nuri al-Maliki on Monday represents his administration coming down on the side of the Shi'ites in Iraq's civil war. I'm certain our good Sunni friends in Saudi Arabia will have nothing to say about that.

That's untrue. The security gains in Iraq stem from:

"First, the surge allowed us to eliminate extremist safe havens and sanctuaries, [and] just as importantly to maintain our gains. Second, the ongoing quantitative and qualitative improvement of the Iraqi security forces are translating to ever-increasing tactical successes. Lastly, there's a clear rejection of al Qaeda and other extremists by large segments of the population, this coupled with the bottom-up awakening movement by both Sunni and Shia who want a chance to reconcile with the government of Iraq." These dynamics worked together to improve security.

Educate yourself - you look foolish.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=8836

[Classact]

:clap::clap::clap:But that won't stop Harry and Nancy... they will make themselves look dumb in public until Nancy's CA yard is knee deep in anti war feces and then try to take credit for causing victory.

[Psychoblues]

You need to heed your own warning, Gaffer.


If you close your eyes and cover your ears and say nanananana. You won't hear or see anything and it will all go away.

You are right in one sense. The iraqi's are stepping up to the plate and taking over security. They are doing it more every day. And as they do we step back. That was the plan from the beginning.

There is NO civil war in iraq. The libs like you are wrong again, like you are on EVERYTHING. Go sit in the corner and suck your thumb and pretend nothing is going on in the world. Your dreams of a lost iraq and collapse of our military have been shattered. :fu:

If you can dispute what bully has to say I suggest you dispute it. Otherwise you are the one binding your closed eyes, sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "nananananannana". But, it ain't going away, is it?

[glockmail]

Alan Holmes said on his radio show last night that the "Surge" was all about restoring political unity. And, since the Sunnis and Shiites are still "at each others throats" it has been a failure.

I also heard a caller on another show state that the decision to invade Iraq was "soley because of WMD".

The revisionists are hard at work.

[bullypulpit]

If you close your eyes and cover your ears and say nanananana. You won't hear or see anything and it will all go away.

You are right in one sense. The iraqi's are stepping up to the plate and taking over security. They are doing it more every day. And as they do we step back. That was the plan from the beginning.

There is NO civil war in iraq. The libs like you are wrong again, like you are on EVERYTHING. Go sit in the corner and suck your thumb and pretend nothing is going on in the world. Your dreams of a lost iraq and collapse of our military have been shattered. :fu:

You and your fellow travelers are the ones who are sitting in the corner with your hands clapped over your ears and your eyes squinched shut. You try and drown out the realities of Iraq by repeating the continuous drone of propaganda from the White House.

As for whether or not Iraq has descended into civil war I suggest you read this article:

<center><a href=http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20070301faessay86201/james-d-fearon/iraq-s-civil-war.html>Iraq's Civil War</a></center>

I have no dreams about "...a lost iraq and collapse of our military...". The reality is already here, brought to us courtesy of the Bush administration.

[darin]

blah blah blah, lies and speculation

You didn't read my link, did you?

[bullypulpit]

That's untrue. The security gains in Iraq stem from:

"First, the surge allowed us to eliminate extremist safe havens and sanctuaries, [and] just as importantly to maintain our gains. Second, the ongoing quantitative and qualitative improvement of the Iraqi security forces are translating to ever-increasing tactical successes. Lastly, there's a clear rejection of al Qaeda and other extremists by large segments of the population, this coupled with the bottom-up awakening movement by both Sunni and Shia who want a chance to reconcile with the government of Iraq." These dynamics worked together to improve security.

Educate yourself - you look foolish.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=8836

Perhaps you should consider expanding your own educational horizons by examining views other than those you keep repeating from the White House echo chamber. In doing so, you will ameliorate your own foolishness.

[darin]

blah, blah, blah, banter, blah


You didn't read the link I put up. That link shows fantastic 'gains' and GREAT progress. It didn't come from the white house. Do you wish to refute the data in the thread to which I linked, or is your head too far up your ass to admit you maybe have NO F'ING CLUE about what happens i Iraq, other than what you see on Youtube, CNN, and hear on Air America?

[Psychoblues]

dmp, maybe blah, blah blah is not enough for you.






You didn't read the link I put up. That link shows fantastic 'gains' and GREAT progress. It didn't come from the white house. Do you wish to refute the data in the thread to which I linked, or is your head too far up your ass to admit you maybe have NO F'ING CLUE about what happens i Iraq, other than what you see on Youtube, CNN, and hear on Air America?

Would you care to further bloviate your interpretations?

[darin]

Please read the link I provided, then get back to me. Caution - it's bad knews for folk like you who giggle at the thought of American losses due to combat.

[Psychoblues]

Why do you say that I "giggle at the thought of American losses due to combat."?



Please read the link I provided, then get back to me. Caution - it's bad knews for folk like you who giggle at the thought of American losses due to combat.

Don't misinterpret me, dmp (and I know that is so hard for you) but I support our Troops, our Veterans and our Patriots in my every breath.

Your lies and innuendo are beneath you, I think. Or, were you serious?

[theHawk]

Perhaps you should consider expanding your own educational horizons by examining views other than those you keep repeating from the White House echo chamber. In doing so, you will ameliorate your own foolishness.

Care to tell us which Democratic Candidate with a chance in hell of winning the Dem nod has promised to pull out troops, preferably with a timeline? Otherwise your palaver is getting old.

[5stringJeff]

So now that the Iraqis are better able to secure their own nation, is it time for the US to start packing it up?

-------------
Because security in Iraq is improving, the United States now has a chance to achieve the best realistic outcome of its unfortunate invasion and occupation: extricating the bulk of U.S. forces without making things worse.

The temporary surge of five additional U.S. brigades has helped curb sectarian killings in Baghdad, braking Iraq's slide into civil war. But the surge does not explain all that is happening in Iraq. Other factors will determine when most U.S. forces, post-surge, can be withdrawn and with what consequences.

The two most promising developments in the country are the improved performance of U.S. forces and the progress of the Iraqi army. Until this year, when the Pentagon adopted a counterinsurgency strategy, U.S. forces relied on episodic attacks and sweeps to kill or detain enemy fighters. This left the population alternately exposed to insurgent violence and outraged by American brute force. Consequently, although U.S. forces killed or detained 80,000 suspected insurgents from 2004 through 2006, the number of insurgents swelled from 5,000 to 30,000 during the period.

The new doctrine affords more continuous protection of the population, enlists tribal sheikhs and war-weary citizens, and uses force and detention judiciously. It is working not just in Baghdad, but in combustible provinces like Anbar in the West and Nineveh in the North. More than the surge, the U.S. military's newfound adeptness is isolating Sunni jihadists and Shiite militants - a tenet of counterinsurgency.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/12/02/INQJTLEU4.DTL

[red states rule]

The last thing Dems and the liberal media want to talk about is Iraq. I thought they said Iraq would be the #1 issue in 2008

Russert Concedes Fewer Deaths in Iraq Means Less Coverage
By Brent Baker | December 10, 2007 - 03:40 ET
Asked by NBC Nightly News anchor Lester Holt on Sunday evening about how a new MSNBC/Mason-Dixon poll found that Iraq is not “the dominating issue” as “the economy is immensely important to voters,” Tim Russert suggested Hillary Clinton and Rudy Giuliani will have “to re-calibrate” for “a bread and butter election” since “with the surge in Iraq and the level of American deaths declining, it is off the front pages.” Iraq is also now of less interest to the television networks. A MRC study released last week documented how Iraq stories on the three broadcast network evening newscasts fell from 178 in September to 68 during November, “with only eleven (16%) actually from the war zone itself.”

Holt did not report any issue-oriented poll results, just how the MSNBC/Mason-Dixon poll, also conducted for McClatchy Newspapers, has Barack Obama tied with Clinton in Iowa, New Hampshire and in South Carolina, and on the GOP side, Mike Huckabee way ahead in Iowa and South Carolina. MSNBC's First Read and a McClatchy news story also stick to the horse race, but the posting of the McClatchy article includes links to PDFs with results for what most concerns caucus and primary voters.

The exchange on the Sunday, December 9 NBC Nightly News:


LESTER HOLT: When we look back a long time ago, I think there was the assumption that Iraq would be the dominating issue going into this campaign. Now these numbers tell us the economy is immensely important to voters. So what does that mean for candidates like Rudy Giuliani, like Hillary Clinton, who've really been pushing national security, tough on terrorism type credentials?

TIM RUSSERT: I think they're going to have to re-calibrate their campaigns. They have to focus on the economy, focus on health care, and they're capable of doing that. It is interesting, with the surge in Iraq and the level of American deaths declining, it is off the front pages. It looks like it could be a bread and butter election where people are very concerned about their homes, the financing, the economy, those kinds of gut issues, Lester.

The December 4 study by the MRC's Rich Noyes, "Good News = Less News on Iraq War; MRC Study: As Surge Succeeds and Casualty Rates Fall, ABC, CBS and NBC Lose Interest In Iraq War

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-baker/2007/12/10/russert-concedes-fewer-deaths-iraq-means-less-coverage

[glockmail]

So now that the Iraqis are better able to secure their own nation, is it time for the US to start packing it up?
.... Pack it up to our new air base just outside of Bagdad: Mideast Central Command! :laugh2:

[red states rule]

Pack it up to our new air base just outside of Bagdad: Mideast Central Command! :laugh2:

With a Burger King and a PX selling Playboy

[glockmail]

With a Burger King and a PX selling Playboy I'm thinking Piggly Wiggly with the best beer selection in the desert. :lol:

[red states rule]

I'm thinking Piggly Wiggly with the best beer selection in the desert. :lol:

That is a good start - along with a dance club