The Great Thanksgiving Hoax

[Little-Acorn]

http://www.mises.org/story/336

The Great Thanksgiving Hoax

By Richard J. Maybury
Posted on 11/20/1999

Each year at this time school children all over America are taught the official Thanksgiving story, and newspapers, radio, TV, and magazines devote vast amounts of time and space to it. It is all very colorful and fascinating.

It is also very deceiving. This official story is nothing like what really happened. It is a fairy tale, a whitewashed and sanitized collection of half-truths which divert attention away from Thanksgiving's real meaning.

The official story has the pilgrims boarding the Mayflower, coming to America and establishing the Plymouth colony in the winter of 1620-21. This first winter is hard, and half the colonists die. But the survivors are hard working and tenacious, and they learn new farming techniques from the Indians. The harvest of 1621 is bountiful. The Pilgrims hold a celebration, and give thanks to God. They are grateful for the wonderful new abundant land He has given them.

The official story then has the Pilgrims living more or less happily ever after, each year repeating the first Thanksgiving. Other early colonies also have hard times at first, but they soon prosper and adopt the annual tradition of giving thanks for this prosperous new land called America.

The problem with this official story is that the harvest of 1621 was not bountiful, nor were the colonists hardworking or tenacious. 1621 was a famine year and many of the colonists were lazy thieves.

In his 'History of Plymouth Plantation,' the governor of the colony, William Bradford, reported that the colonists went hungry for years, because they refused to work in the fields. They preferred instead to steal food. He says the colony was riddled with "corruption," and with "confusion and discontent." The crops were small because "much was stolen both by night and day, before it became scarce eatable."

In the harvest feasts of 1621 and 1622, "all had their hungry bellies filled," but only briefly. The prevailing condition during those years was not the abundance the official story claims, it was famine and death. The first "Thanksgiving" was not so much a celebration as it was the last meal of condemned men.

But in subsequent years something changes. The harvest of 1623 was different. Suddenly, "instead of famine now God gave them plenty," Bradford wrote, "and the face of things was changed, to the rejoicing of the hearts of many, for which they blessed God." Thereafter, he wrote, "any general want or famine hath not been amongst them since to this day." In fact, in 1624, so much food was produced that the colonists were able to begin exporting corn.

What happened?

After the poor harvest of 1622, writes Bradford, "they began to think how they might raise as much corn as they could, and obtain a better crop." They began to question their form of economic organization.

This had required that "all profits & benefits that are got by trade, working, fishing, or any other means" were to be placed in the common stock of the colony, and that, "all such persons as are of this colony, are to have their meat, drink, apparel, and all provisions out of the common stock." A person was to put into the common stock all he could, and take out only what he needed.

This "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" was an early form of socialism, and it is why the Pilgrims were starving. Bradford writes that "young men that are most able and fit for labor and service" complained about being forced to "spend their time and strength to work for other men's wives and children." Also, "the strong, or man of parts, had no more in division of victuals and clothes, than he that was weak." So the young and strong refused to work and the total amount of food produced was never adequate.

To rectify this situation, in 1623 Bradford abolished socialism. He gave each household a parcel of land and told them they could keep what they produced, or trade it away as they saw fit. In other words, he replaced socialism with a free market, and that was the end of famines.

Many early groups of colonists set up socialist states, all with the same terrible results. At Jamestown, established in 1607, out of every shipload of settlers that arrived, less than half would survive their first twelve months in America. Most of the work was being done by only one-fifth of the men, the other four-fifths choosing to be parasites. In the winter of 1609-10, called "The Starving Time," the population fell from five-hundred to sixty.

Then the Jamestown colony was converted to a free market, and the results were every bit as dramatic as those at Plymouth. In 1614, Colony Secretary Ralph Hamor wrote that after the switch there was "plenty of food, which every man by his own industry may easily and doth procure." He said that when the socialist system had prevailed, "we reaped not so much corn from the labors of thirty men as three men have done for themselves now."

Before these free markets were established, the colonists had nothing for which to be thankful. They were in the same situation as Ethiopians are today, and for the same reasons. But after free markets were established, the resulting abundance was so dramatic that the annual Thanksgiving celebrations became common throughout the colonies, and in 1863, Thanksgiving became a national holiday.

Thus the real reason for Thanksgiving, deleted from the official story, is: Socialism does not work; the one and only source of abundance is free markets, and we thank God we live in a country where we can have them.

[Hagbard Celine]

Yes, the Pilgrims were making a statement against Socialism, which hadn't been invented yet--also, the Pilgrims lived in a Red State. Thanks for that intriguing insight. Now throw yourself out a window.

[Little-Acorn]

Yes, the Pilgrims were making a statement against Socialism, which hadn't been invented yet--
Clearly it HAD been invented, since they were practicing it, to their sorrow. Just because it didn't have that title, doesn't mean it didn't exist.

It's scary how our modern socialists so blithely ignore the myriads of times their theories have already been tried, sometimes extending centuries into the past, and have repeatedly brought disaster and death to those who tried them. Yet the socialists keep trying to impose them, again and again. To put it politely, some people never learn.


also, the Pilgrims lived in a Red State.
The people of Massachusetts (mostly Indians at that time) voted for Republicans before 1620???

This is one of your more bizarre posts, even sillier than usual for you. Hope you get a chance to relax over the four-day holiday. You plainly need it.

[avatar4321]

Yes, the Pilgrims were making a statement against Socialism, which hadn't been invented yet--also, the Pilgrims lived in a Red State. Thanks for that intriguing insight. Now throw yourself out a window.

do you honestly thing people did not engage in the practices of socialism before it was so named? capitalism was alive long before it was named and recognized as capitalism. why should socialism be any different?

[Hagbard Celine]

do you honestly thing people did not engage in the practices of socialism before it was so named? capitalism was alive long before it was named and recognized as capitalism. why should socialism be any different?

The current lesson of Thanksgiving is not a conspiracy to cover up the evils of Socialism. It's just NOT. All Thanksgiving is about is giving thanks mainly to God for the bounty of food that we have after the harvest. Every culture celebrates the harvest with a feast. You guys are idiots if you believe anything else.

[JohnDoe]

Little - Acorn

Who did the "steal from", who did they get their food from, that you mention in the first post? Indians or other pilgrims?

[Yurt]

The current lesson of Thanksgiving is not a conspiracy to cover up the evils of Socialism. It's just NOT. All Thanksgiving is about is giving thanks mainly to God for the bounty of food that we have after the harvest. Every culture celebrates the harvest with a feast. You guys are idiots if you believe anything else.

Why are you so touchy? Why does the truth bother you? Acorn told us truth and you told him to throw himself out a window.

Embrace truth, don't be scared.

[avatar4321]

The current lesson of Thanksgiving is not a conspiracy to cover up the evils of Socialism. It's just NOT. All Thanksgiving is about is giving thanks mainly to God for the bounty of food that we have after the harvest. Every culture celebrates the harvest with a feast. You guys are idiots if you believe anything else.

conspiracy? maybe not. All it takes is one person to purposely whitewash the story. Others retell the whitewashed story in ignorance.

But the fact is capitalism and every person having their own stewardship was key to defeating the famine and bringing in the bountiful harvests.

Another key misrepresentation is that the First Thanksgiving was about the Native Americans saving the Pilgrims when in fact, it was more likely the other way around. The Pilgrims had such a bountiful harvest that they shared it with the Indians.

[Little-Acorn]

Little - Acorn

Who did the "steal from", who did they get their food from, that you mention in the first post? Indians or other pilgrims?

Other Pilgrims.

[Hagbard Celine]

conspiracy? maybe not. All it takes is one person to purposely whitewash the story. Others retell the whitewashed story in ignorance.

But the fact is capitalism and every person having their own stewardship was key to defeating the famine and bringing in the bountiful harvests.

Another key misrepresentation is that the First Thanksgiving was about the Native Americans saving the Pilgrims when in fact, it was more likely the other way around. The Pilgrims had such a bountiful harvest that they shared it with the Indians.

No, Mr. White Supremacist. Who's the whitewasher now? The Indians were invited to the feast because without their help, the Pilgrims wouldn't have even known how to properly raise corn. This is such bullsh*t. Thanksgiving is about nothing more than thanking God for our bounty. That's it. There's no hidden message decrying the evils of Socialism. There's nothing in it decrying the indecency and inferiority of other races. Nothing about free markets and capitalism. Nothing. These people had a barter economy based on shell jewelry, animal skins and chickens. They didn't even have "markets" in our sense of the word. You guys are completely retarded.

[Little-Acorn]

Notice HC's new tactic? He's trying to pretend someone said the hazards of socialism were part of "the current message". Whatever that is. And then he's bashing everyone in sight for saying it... when nobody did. He carefully avoids discussing whether the story is true... because he knows it is, and cannot refute it, but cannot bear to live with the truth. Hence the namecalling, demands others shut up, calling people "White Supremacists", and all the rest of the usual diversions from the original subject of the thread.

It's hard to be a socialist nowadays. Too many people know your ideal is a miserable failure, and has been literally for centuries. People like Hillary and Edwards have to try to sneak it into law by pretending it isn't socialism, it won't be expanded later, pretending it's "for the children", etc. Because they know if they presented it straightforwardly it would be voted down in a landslide. The remember all too well Billary's attempt at socialized medicine in 1993, which they actually published in a book... and the resulting Republican landslide in 1994 when people kicked the Democrats out of most offices for a decade.

Rather than take the hint, they are still trying to worm it back into law, passing pieces of it piecemeal here and there, trying to get govt to take over medical insurance etc. But no way will they ever announce what they are planning again. So you get deception from all the candidates and Congressmen... and spews of abuse and diversion from charming people like Hagbard.

Welcome back my friends, to the show that never ends..... :lol:

(with apologies to ELP)

[Hagbard Celine]

Notice HC's new tactic? He's trying to pretend someone said the hazards of socialism were part of "the current message". Whatever that is. And then he's bashing everyone in sight for saying it... when nobody did. He carefully avoids discussing whether the story is true... because he knows it is, and cannot refute it, but cannot bear to live with the truth. Hence the namecalling, demands others shut up, calling people "White Supremacists", and all the rest of the usual diversions from the original subject of the thread.

It's hard to be a socialist nowadays. Too many people know your ideal is a miserable failure, and has been literally for centuries. People like Hillary and Edwards have to try to sneak it into law by pretending it isn't socialism, it won't be expanded later, pretending it's "for the children", etc. Because they know if they presented it straightforwardly it would be voted down in a landslide. The remember all too well Billary's attempt at socialized medicine in 1993, which they actually published in a book... and the resulting Republican landslide in 1994 when people kicked the Democrats out of most offices for a decade.

Rather than take the hint, they are still trying to worm it back into law, passing pieces of it piecemeal here and there, trying to get govt to take over medical insurance etc. But no way will they ever announce what they are planning again. So you get deception from all the candidates and Congressmen... and spews of abuse and diversion from charming people like Hagbard.

Welcome back my friends, to the show that never ends..... :lol:

(with apologies to ELP)

The very first two sentences of the article you posted says it all moron. The "real story of Capitalism's defeat of Socialism in Plymouth Rock" has been whitewashed with the current story. It's a crock of sh*t. And now you're beaten and the only thing you can do is prop-up some straw-man about me "avoiding the argument." The real story of Thanksgiving is the one we all learn in school. That Pilgrims faced hard winters, the Indians taught them how to survive on the land and they all had a big feast together to thank God for their bounty. The END. No Socialism. No Capitalism. No Modern Day Political Bull Sh*t whatsoever. The End. You're beaten. Give it up.

[Little-Acorn]

Can I call them, or what? Poor little hc is still trying to pretend what Bradford said about his own colony, never happened. Nothing but the same, repetitive diversions, subject changes, profanity, and demands that the people pointing out the truth stop doing so.

You have to feel sorry for the poor boy - I guess dreams die hard for some people, even when they've proven to be nightmares for the people who actually experienced them.




(more hysterical chest-thumping, profanity, and namecalling deleted)

[Hagbard Celine]

Can I call them, or what? Poor little hc is still trying to pretend what Bradford said about his own colony, never happened. Nothing but the same, repetitive diversions, subject changes, profanity, and demands that the people pointing out the truth stop doing so.

You have to feel sorry for the poor boy - I guess dreams die hard for some people, even when they've proven to be nightmares for the people who actually experienced them.

And I've hit a wall. I've got better things to do than argue about whether or not 19th Century economic philosophies battled each other at the first Thanksgiving. This is idiocy. :lol:

[avatar4321]

And I've hit a wall. I've got better things to do than argue about whether or not 19th Century economic philosophies battled each other at the first Thanksgiving. This is idiocy. :lol:

well one usually does hit a wall when the refuse to acknowledge the facts.

[Little-Acorn]

Avatar, it's more like one of those cartoon characters who has run off a cliff, and is suspended in midair, feet scurrying madly, but he hasn't looked down yet.

I guess little hc is working as hard as he can to postpone looking down. Apparently he thinks his diversions etc. can fly forever, with nothing to support them.

:cuckoo:

[Pale Rider]

Notice HC's new tactic? He's trying to pretend someone said the hazards of socialism were part of "the current message". Whatever that is. And then he's bashing everyone in sight for saying it... when nobody did. He carefully avoids discussing whether the story is true... because he knows it is, and cannot refute it, but cannot bear to live with the truth. Hence the namecalling, demands others shut up, calling people "White Supremacists", and all the rest of the usual diversions from the original subject of the thread.

This is common behavior among board liberals. I have established this pattern more than once to board admin. The liberals hate the truth, and when confronted with it, they are invariably the first ones to throw personal insults and start with the name calling, and totally ignore the core issue of the thread. We have a couple liberals here that don't. I respect them.

[Dilloduck]

Little - Acorn

Who did the "steal from", who did they get their food from, that you mention in the first post? Indians or other pilgrims?

They stole from the indivuals that had worked had to produce. The "haves".

Now everyone shut up and have a great "Thanks"giving.

[Pale Rider]

They stole from the indivuals that had worked had to produce. The "haves".

Now everyone shut up and have a great "Thanks"giving.

It's just another day to me.... big deal.

[typomaniac]

The current lesson of Thanksgiving is not a conspiracy to cover up the evils of Socialism. It's just NOT. All Thanksgiving is about is giving thanks mainly to God for the bounty of food that we have after the harvest. Every culture celebrates the harvest with a feast. You guys are idiots if you believe anything else.
As you probably guessed, Little-Acorn is utterly incapable of looking at anything, no matter how non-political, through bizarre, far-right partisan lenses.

Reminds me of a story my mom once told me about her grandmother:

Mom: Grandma, did you read this story in the newspaper?
Great-Grandma: What? Is it good for the Jews?
Mom: No, Grandma, it's not good for the Jews.
Great-Grandma: Oy vay! It's BAD for the Jews!
Mom: No, Grandma. It's not good for the Jews, and it's not bad for the Jews. It has nothing to do with the Jews.
Great-Grandma: How can that be?

:bang3:

[Little-Acorn]

And now typomaniac is trying to pretend the original post has nothing to do with the Pilgrims, or maybe nothing to do with the way they lived those first few years, or something.

Such proliferation of frantic, willful ignorance helps to explain how John Kerry got so many votes. Fortunately these people are on their last gasp. :slap:

[Yurt]

As you probably guessed, Little-Acorn is utterly incapable of looking at anything, no matter how non-political, through bizarre, far-right partisan lenses.

Reminds me of a story my mom once told me about her grandmother:

Mom: Grandma, did you read this story in the newspaper?
Great-Grandma: What? Is it good for the Jews?
Mom: No, Grandma, it's not good for the Jews.
Great-Grandma: Oy vay! It's BAD for the Jews!
Mom: No, Grandma. It's not good for the Jews, and it's not bad for the Jews. It has nothing to do with the Jews.
Great-Grandma: How can that be?

:bang3:


If my Grandma were alive today she would kick your ass

And you would take it, cause you are that kind of person.

And before you even think about replying, a jewish, born on long island, raised in queens in a grocery store, ninth grade education, grandma.

I could pull racist rants on you, but why bother, you have no clue, so it will be like pouring rose water over shitee

[typomaniac]

And now typomaniac is trying to pretend the original post has nothing to do with the Pilgrims, or maybe nothing to do with the way they lived those first few years, or something.

Such proliferation of frantic, willful ignorance helps to explain how John Kerry got so many votes. Fortunately these people are on their last gasp. :slap:
Yes, "something:" that Thanksgiving never was a political issue, as the OP is bent on making it.

Your use of the phrase "willful ignorance" in reference to me would have inspired the pot and kettle cliche if it didn't exist already.

:cuckoo::cow:

[Yurt]

Yes, "something:" that Thanksgiving never was a political issue, as the OP is bent on making it.

Your use of the phrase "willful ignorance" in reference to me would have inspired the pot and kettle cliche if it didn't exist already.

:cuckoo::cow:

:link:

I suppose you think "politics" did not exist then either....

[typomaniac]

If my Grandma were alive today she would kick your ass

And you would take it, cause you are that kind of person.
Why would I care about your Grandma? :confused:


:link:

I suppose you think "politics" did not exist then either....By your "logic," everything is about politics because politics has always existed. :rolleyes:

[Yurt]

Why would I care about your Grandma? :confused:

By your "logic," everything is about politics because politics has always existed. :rolleyes:

Try not to hurt yourself thinking next time. You last sentence is a massive logical fallacy.

Your first sentence simply shows your ignorance.

[typomaniac]

Try not to hurt yourself thinking next time. You last sentence is a massive logical fallacy.

Your first sentence simply shows your ignorance.

Why this new obsession with me? Finally coming out? :laugh2:

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,

1. But Free and Open Markets, and Free Speech are two of the corner stones of American Life.
2. Without these two, America will crumble.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[April15]

Yes, the Pilgrims were making a statement against Socialism, which hadn't been invented yet--also, the Pilgrims lived in a Red State. Thanks for that intriguing insight. Now throw yourself out a window.The truth is the Native Indians, whose language the pilgrims never learned, supported the immigrants for years. Tried to teach them how to live off the land, but only were killed for their possessions and land. Much as the White man does today with other nations!

[Yurt]

The truth is the Native Indians, whose language the pilgrims never learned, supported the immigrants for years. Tried to teach them how to live off the land, but only were killed for their possessions and land. Much as the White man does today with other nations!

paaleese.