Did the entire free world think Sadam had WMD and AQ ties?

[truthmatters]

If I recall we had to go into Iraq with a coalition of the willing instead of the entire free world behind us?

Whats your thoughts?

[darin]

If I recall we had to go into Iraq with a coalition of the willing instead of the entire free world behind us?

Whats your thoughts?

Those are two different points. Every major Intel service thought Iraq had WMDs, and were hiding them. Not every country who thought Iraq had WMDs went to war with us- Remember, a number of them were making a LOT of money, illegally, from Iraq.

:)

[truthmatters]

http://pwhce.org/willing.html

here is a world map of the coalition of the willing and those not so willing.



http://www.newsaic.com/f911chap6-7a.html


and more

[darin]

http://pwhce.org/willing.html

here is a world map of the coalition of the willing and those not so willing.

What does that have to do with your question "Did the free world think Saddam had WMDs"?

[truthmatters]

Maybe if you would look at the map and see the countries who OPPOSED the war.

[darin]

Maybe if you would look at the map and see the countries who OPPOSED the war.

What is the subject of this thread?

[truthmatters]

Do you remember the weapons inspectors Bush had to trash to Bomb Iraq?


I want to save this link


http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2007/09/06/bush_wmd/?source=whitelist

[darin]

Do you remember the weapons inspectors Bush had to trash to Bomb Iraq?


I want to save this link


http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2007/09/06/bush_wmd/?source=whitelist

Again - what is the point of this thread? You have 3 different subjects going on. Pick one, OKAY?

[Sertes]

If I recall we had to go into Iraq with a coalition of the willing instead of the entire free world behind us?

Whats your thoughts?

While Italy was a part of the coalition of the willing the majority of us never fell for the lie of the WMD, we all knew it was all about the oil. We just got it wrong at the time the occupation started because we thought the goal was to steal Iraq oil rather than to inflate oil prices worldwide as it proved out these years.

The same goes for AQ: almost all of us saw Saddam-AQ link as an extremely convenient lie at the time (false but necessary to bring Saddam down) but right now that the majority of italians accept the inside job version of 9/11 (we got seven TV shows that covered it) it's difficult to even support the claim AQ exists at all, we just laugh at the number of videos that OBL is able to make from his secret hideout without anyone being able to capture him, and to all other propaganda US media is pushing and that our TV news are forced to repeat!

[darin]

While Italy was a part of the coalition of the willing the majority of us never fell for the lie of the WMD, we all knew it was all about the oil. We just got it wrong at the time the occupation started because we thought the goal was to steal Iraq oil rather than to inflate oil prices worldwide as it proved out these years.

The same goes for AQ: almost all of us saw Saddam-AQ link as an extremely convenient lie at the time (false but necessary to bring Saddam down) but right now that the majority of italians accept the inside job version of 9/11 (we got seven TV shows that covered it) it's difficult to even support the claim AQ exists at all, we just laugh at the number of videos that OBL is able to make from his secret hideout without anyone being able to capture him, and to all other propaganda US media is pushing and that our TV news are forced to repeat!

Point of Order - Saddam's ties to "terrorism" were VERY well established. Folk like to cherry-pick "no-ties-to-AQ" in an effort to discredit the USA.

I would get a little upset that you 'laugh' about OBL - but since you think he's NOT a mass-murderer, I suppose I understand.

[bullypulpit]

Those are two different points. Every major Intel service thought Iraq had WMDs, and were hiding them. Not every country who thought Iraq had WMDs went to war with us- Remember, a number of them were making a LOT of money, illegally, from Iraq.

:)

Sorry, but that's not exactly the case.

Before Chimpy McPresident uttered those infamous 16 words in 2003's SOTU speech, and Colin Powell delivered his speech to the UN, the Germans AND the British already had serious doubts about the stability, let alone the reliability, of "Curveball". These concerns were raise d by Tyler Drumheller, formerly chief of the European Division of CIA’s directorate of operations, and others in the US intelligence community. It is also worth noting that former Iraqi Foreign minister, Naji Sabri, was recruited by the CIA in the summer of 2002, and that September, provided intel indicating that Saddam had no active WMD programs. This intel was passed on to the White House, but since "...the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy...." by Chimpy and Co, it was ignored, as was any intel that did not fit their goals of supporting the invasion of Iraq.

Sources:

<a href=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/24/AR2006062401081.html>Warnings on WMD 'Fabricator' Were Ignored, Ex-CIA Aide Says</a>

<a href=http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2006/06/25/intelligence-officers-learn-from-history/>Intelligence Officers, Learn from History</a>

<a href=http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/memos.html>The Downing Street Memo</a>

[Sertes]

Point of Order - Saddam's ties to "terrorism" were VERY well established. Folk like to cherry-pick "no-ties-to-AQ" in an effort to discredit the USA.

Sorry, the question was if Saddam had WMD and links to AQ. Let me crystal clear on this, as people tend to misrepresent on purpose what I write:

Saddam had WMD in the eighties
Saddam had not WMD in 2003
Saddam had links with terrorists organizations
Saddam had no links with AQ


I would get a little upset that you 'laugh' about OBL - but since you think he's NOT a mass-murderer, I suppose I understand.

You got it wrong. Osama Bin Laden is a proven mass murderer, as stated on his FBI page:


Usama Bin Laden is wanted in connection with the August 7, 1998, bombings of the United States Embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. These attacks killed over 200 people.
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm

We just laugh at Osama Bin Laden FAKE VIDEOS.

[darin]

Sorry, the question was if Saddam had WMD and links to AQ. Let me crystal clear on this, as people tend to misrepresent on purpose what I write:

Saddam had WMD in the eighties
Saddam had not WMD in 2003
Saddam had links with terrorists organizations
Saddam had no links with AQ



But...nobody championed going to war BECAUSE of WMD...it was to "remove the threat of WMDs" Just be honest. :)




You got it wrong. Osama Bin Laden is a proven mass murderer, as stated on his FBI page:


http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm

We just laugh at Osama Bin Laden FAKE VIDEOS.

And...911.

Fake vids? Oh - the US Government is producing them? Really? :tinfoil:


Sorry, but that's not exactly the case.

Before Chimpy McPresident uttered those infamous 16 words in 2003's SOTU speech, and Colin Powell delivered his speech to the UN, the Germans AND the British already had serious doubts about the stability, let alone the reliability, of "Curveball". These concerns were raise d by Tyler Drumheller, formerly chief of the European Division of CIA’s directorate of operations, and others in the US intelligence community. It is also worth noting that former Iraqi Foreign minister, Naji Sabri, was recruited by the CIA in the summer of 2002, and that September, provided intel indicating that Saddam had no active WMD programs. This intel was passed on to the White House, but since "...the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy...." by Chimpy and Co, it was ignored, as was any intel that did not fit their goals of supporting the invasion of Iraq.

Sources:

<a href=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/24/AR2006062401081.html>Warnings on WMD 'Fabricator' Were Ignored, Ex-CIA Aide Says</a>

<a href=http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2006/06/25/intelligence-officers-learn-from-history/>Intelligence Officers, Learn from History</a>

<a href=http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/memos.html>The Downing Street Memo</a>


Very interesting Op/ed pieces.

[bullypulpit]

But...nobody championed going to war BECAUSE of WMD...it was to "remove the threat of WMDs" Just be honest. :)




And...911.

Fake vids? Oh - the US Government is producing them? Really? :tinfoil:




Very interesting Op/ed pieces.


Sorry, but you didn't even take the time to read the articles linked to. The Washington Post article is hard news, and is independently verifiable. The Downing Street Memos are, and have been for some time, a matter of public record. The closest to an op-ed piece would be from Larry Johnson's blog <a href=http://noquarterusa.net/blog/>No Quarter</a>. But what would he know, having been a CIA officer working for the State Department's Office of Counter Terrorism? And Ray McGovern, the author of the piece, was an analyst for the CIA for some 27 years.

[Sertes]

And...911.

Sorry, it's a common misconception, but fact is Osama Bin Laden is not wanted in relation to 9/11 as FBI has no hard evidence against him.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13664.htm


Fake vids? Oh - the US Government is producing them? Really? :tinfoil:

That would carry us waaaay off topic. I was just answering on the Italian opinion, and that's it: OBL videos are fake, AQ does not exist anymore than SPECTRE. Right or wrong, that's just what most of us believe right now.

[bullypulpit]

Sorry, it's a common misconception, but fact is Osama Bin Laden is not wanted in relation to 9/11 as FBI has no hard evidence against him.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13664.htm



That would carry us waaaay off topic. I was just answering on the Italian opinion, and that's it: OBL videos are fake, AQ does not exist anymore than SPECTRE. Right or wrong, that's just what most of us believe right now.

Here's a link to the FBI's "Most Wanted" page on Bin Laden.

<a href=http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm>Most Wanted Terrorist</a>

[retiredman]

Point of Order - Saddam's ties to "terrorism" were VERY well established. Folk like to cherry-pick "no-ties-to-AQ" in an effort to discredit the USA.


lot's of countries have ties to terrorism.... I would suggest, for example, that for years and years, the Irish population of South Boston Massachusetts, with its open and significant contributions to the IRA, had "ties to terrorism". That did not make South Boston a viable target for shock and awe, did it?

Terror itself is not the real enemy...the real enemies are those groups who would use terror as a tactic to attack the United States.

Saddam's "ties to terrorism" were nearly exclusively to nationalist arab organizations. Nationalist arab organizations were not who attacked us.

We needed to keep our eyes on the real enemy and we failed - Bush failed.

[truthmatters]

The sad thing is that all the experts now say there were no ties.

How sad some still insist there were.

[Sertes]

Here's a link to the FBI's "Most Wanted" page on Bin Laden.

<a href=http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm>Most Wanted Terrorist</a>

Yep, my link exactly, see post #12 of this thread.

OBL is not wanted for 9/11.

[bullypulpit]

Point of Order - Saddam's ties to "terrorism" were VERY well established. Folk like to cherry-pick "no-ties-to-AQ" in an effort to discredit the USA.

I would get a little upset that you 'laugh' about OBL - but since you think he's NOT a mass-murderer, I suppose I understand.

Ties to Palestinian terrorism, not to Al Qaeda. There are no substantiated ties to Al Qaeda. This is born out not only by the 9/11 report, but also by declassified DOD reports and the 2006 Senate Select Committee Phase II report on pre-war intelligence.

[bullypulpit]

Yep, my link exactly, see post #12 of this thread.

OBL is not wanted for 9/11.

My bad.

[theHawk]

If I recall we had to go into Iraq with a coalition of the willing instead of the entire free world behind us?

Whats your thoughts?

What exactly is the point of these questions? Are you implying that U.S. policy should be made according to world opinion? Whether you agree with the current U.S. policy or not, why would we need "the entire free world" behind us in any decision we make? When France sold a nuclear reactor to Saddam was the "entire free world behind them"? Countries do things for their own self interests, always have, always will.

[gabosaurus]

Every major Intel service thought Iraq had WMDs, and were hiding them. Not every country who thought Iraq had WMDs went to war with us- Remember, a number of them were making a LOT of money, illegally, from Iraq.


Saddam's ties to "terrorism" were VERY well established.

Sources please. Real sources, not right-wing blogs.

[PostmodernProphet]

Did the entire free world think Sadam had WMD and AQ ties?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I recall we had to go into Iraq with a coalition of the willing instead of the entire free world behind us?

Whats your thoughts?


the entire world KNEW that Saddam had WMD.....it's only the liberals that have dedicated themselves to forgetting it ever since....

[retiredman]

the entire world KNEW that Saddam had WMD.....it's only the liberals that have dedicated themselves to forgetting it ever since....

If the whole whole KNEW the sun revolved around the earth, would it then be so? would those handful of sky watchers who thought otherwise be laughed at, even after they were proven correct?

[glockmail]

Those are two different points. Every major Intel service thought Iraq had WMDs, and were hiding them. Not every country who thought Iraq had WMDs went to war with us- Remember, a number of them were making a LOT of money, illegally, from Iraq.

:)
True. As I recall France, Germany and Russia were all selling them illeagal arms or technology. And they were the loudest to cry when we finally did go in.:laugh2:

[Said1]

Sources please. Real sources, not right-wing blogs.

Why didn't you ask TM for her links to expert evidence?

[PostmodernProphet]

If the whole whole KNEW the sun revolved around the earth, would it then be so?

well....if they knew it, it would be true.....not sure how they could know it, since it isn't true...but it's your hypothetical, not mine.....now if you had said if the whole world was stupid enough to believe it and it wasn't, would it be so, then I would be with you.....but, back to Saddam.....he had WMD, they were inventoried, they were identified, they were sealed in bunkers, they were removed from the bunkers and never seen again.....he claims he destroyed them but he forgot that little part about providing evidence......doesn't change the fact that he had them, just makes the liberals look mighty stupid for denying the fact.......

[retiredman]

well....if they knew it, it would be true.....not sure how they could know it, since it isn't true...but it's your hypothetical, not mine.....now if you had said if the whole world was stupid enough to believe it and it wasn't, would it be so, then I would be with you.....but, back to Saddam.....he had WMD, they were inventoried, they were identified, they were sealed in bunkers, they were removed from the bunkers and never seen again.....he claims he destroyed them but he forgot that little part about providing evidence......doesn't change the fact that he had them, just makes the liberals look mighty stupid for denying the fact.......


there is a world of difference between HAD them and HAS them. I never denied that, at one time, he HAD them.... I just doubted the supposition that, in 2003, he STILL had them. Oddly enough, my doubts were absolutely justified. imagine that.

[PostmodernProphet]

there is a world of difference between HAD them and HAS them. I never denied that, at one time, he HAD them.... I just doubted the supposition that, in 2003, he STILL had them. Oddly enough, my doubts were absolutely justified. imagine that.

yeah, I bet by Monday morning you were convinced of it......

[retiredman]

yeah, I bet by Monday morning you were convinced of it......

by thursday afternoon.

just because you called it wrong, does not mean that I did.

[gabosaurus]

All talk, no proof. As usual. This topic belongs in "conspiracy theories." Like all alleged justifications for the illegal war in Iraq.

[manu1959]

violation of 18 un reolutions and violations of the terms of cease fire equals getting your ass kicked.....

[Sertes]

violation of 18 un reolutions and violations of the terms of cease fire equals getting your ass kicked.....

Yet he had no ties with AQ nor he had WMD. Which is the topic here.

[nevadamedic]

there is a world of difference between HAD them and HAS them. I never denied that, at one time, he HAD them.... I just doubted the supposition that, in 2003, he STILL had them. Oddly enough, my doubts were absolutely justified. imagine that.

If he didn't have them or really didn't have anything to hide he would have welcomed the weapons inspectors with open arms to clear his name and country.

[Sertes]

True. As I recall France, Germany and Russia were all selling them illeagal arms or technology. And they were the loudest to cry when we finally did go in.:laugh2:

Yes, sure, poor virgin U.S. ...

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/rumsfeld-saddam.jpg

And please, cut the crap. The loudest to cry is the Iraqi population, right now. As always when elephants fights it's the grass that suffer.

[jimnyc]

Yet he had no ties with AQ nor he had WMD. Which is the topic here.

Wrong on both accounts. Does the name Zarqawi ring a bell to you? The man who helped run terror camps (Ansar al Islam) prior to the US invasion, and later killed by US troops? And WMD were in fact found, although not stockpiles as many had been lead to believe.

[PostmodernProphet]

by thursday afternoon.

just because you called it wrong, does not mean that I did.

well, I wasn't around here in 2003 to hear you say it, but still, I hope you excuse my suspicion that you are lying your ass off....I have yet to see a liberal who started saying there were no WMD until four or five months AFTER the war began....my assumption is you were not the only person in the world who did so......

[Sertes]

Wrong on both accounts. Does the name Zarqawi ring a bell to you? The man who helped run terror camps (Ansar al Islam) prior to the US invasion, and later killed by US troops? And WMD were in fact found, although not stockpiles as many had been lead to believe.

Bwhahaha, we're opposite now! You have a theory, now prove it to me:

Prove there were WMD, give me hard evidence they were working, that Saddam was indeed 45 minutes away from being able to attack England as stated by Blair, and after you do all that explain why he choose to not use them on the incoming invaders nor on Israel.

Don't get me wrong, we're all happy he didn't used them, I just think it was because he didn't acutally have them, but I'm happy to hear your opinion on that, since you claim otherwise.

[jimnyc]

Bwhahaha, we're opposite now! You have a theory, now prove it to me:

Prove there were WMD, give me hard evidence they were working, that Saddam was indeed 45 minutes away from being able to attack England as stated by Blair, and after you do all that explain why he choose to not use them on the incoming invaders nor on Israel.

Don't get me wrong, we're all happy he didn't used them, I just think it was because he didn't acutally have them, but I'm happy to hear your opinion on that, since you claim otherwise.

It's a fact already that stockpiles of ammunition have been found in various places throughout Iraq. Some will argue the strength of said weapons, and where they derived from, but it doesn't change that it's a fact that WMD were found after the invasion. These weapons contained mustard and sarin gas, chemical WMD if you may.

And you think this is just a "theory" of mine? It's been plastered all over the news for a few years now. These weapons were supposed to be accounted for and destroyed per the resolutions. Furthermore, there are still tons of chemical weapons that were accounted for in 1998 by UN inspectors that remain missing till this day. It's a FACT that he had these chemicals, and it's a FACT that they were missing and never accounted for once inspectors returned to Iraq.

[retiredman]

violation of 18 un reolutions and violations of the terms of cease fire equals getting your ass kicked.....


and when we had real enemies to deal with...ones who had attacked us.... you really think that spending five years, two trillion dollars and suffering 31K dead and wounded Americans in an effort to punish an unrelated goverment for violating UN resolutions was the most appropriate way to fight the war against Islamic extremism?


an analogy:

your wife just set the kitchen on fire... your son just accidentally cut his fingers off with a table saw in the garage... a gang of hell's angels is surrounding your house demanding that you give them your teenaged daughter for a sex slave...and you have termites. the Bushian first response: call the Orkin Man!

[jimnyc]

and when we had real enemies to deal with...ones who had attacked us.... you really think that spending five years, two trillion dollars and suffering 31K dead and wounded Americans in an effort to punish an unrelated goverment for violating UN resolutions was the most appropriate way to fight the war against Islamic extremism?

Considering that thousands of terrorists have been captured or killed, and hundreds of terror plots foiled since the invasion, I'd have to say yes.

[retiredman]

Considering that thousands of terrorists have been captured or killed, and hundreds of terror plots foiled since the invasion, I'd have to say yes.

and you don't think that those same terrorists would have found us if we had been fighting somewhere more related to islamic extremism?

[glockmail]

Yes, sure, poor virgin U.S. ...

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/rumsfeld-saddam.jpg

... .


What are you attempting to compare here?

[bullypulpit]

Wrong on both accounts. Does the name Zarqawi ring a bell to you? The man who helped run terror camps (Ansar al Islam) prior to the US invasion, and later killed by US troops? And WMD were in fact found, although not stockpiles as many had been lead to believe.

Zarqawi did not sign on with Al Qaeda until AFTER the US invasion of Iraq. Prior to that he and his organization were operating in regions controlled, not by Saddam, but the Kurds.

[manu1959]

and when we had real enemies to deal with...ones who had attacked us.... you really think that spending five years, two trillion dollars and suffering 31K dead and wounded Americans in an effort to punish an unrelated goverment for violating UN resolutions was the most appropriate way to fight the war against Islamic extremism?


an analogy:

your wife just set the kitchen on fire... your son just accidentally cut his fingers off with a table saw in the garage... a gang of hell's angels is surrounding your house demanding that you give them your teenaged daughter for a sex slave...and you have termites. the Bushian first response: call the Orkin Man!

afganistan was invaded.....two fronts......big deal......wwii had multiple......the only people that don't seem to understand that they were two different wars started for to differnt reasons which have no become intertwined is, well, you all....

you anology sucks....

[truthmatters]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/17/iraq/main573801.shtml

I am so tired of people on the right forgetting the real history.

[retiredman]

afganistan was invaded.....two fronts......big deal......wwii had multiple......the only people that don't seem to understand that they were two different wars started for to differnt reasons which have no become intertwined is, well, you all....

you anology sucks....

Newsflash: I could give a fuck what you think of my ANOLOGY[sic] :laugh2:

I have no problem with a two front war.... I have a problem with starting conflicts in locations that have marginal relevance to that war. "Hey Orkin man!"

[truthmatters]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-09-06-poll-iraq_x.htm


Poll: 70% believe Saddam, 9-11 link
WASHINGTON (AP) — Nearly seven in 10 Americans believe it is likely that ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the Sept. 11 attacks, says a poll out almost two years after the terrorists' strike against this country.
Sixty-nine percent in a Washington Post poll published Saturday said they believe it is likely the Iraqi leader was personally involved in the attacks carried out by al-Qaeda. A majority of Democrats, Republicans and independents believe it's likely Saddam was involved.

The belief in the connection persists even though there has been no proof of a link between the two.

President Bush and members of his administration suggested a link between the two in the months before the war in Iraq. Claims of possible links have never been proven, however.



That was 9/6/2003 .

70% of the american people thought Saddam was in on 911. That is the only reason they were so supportive.
I have no doubt you said said so yourself at the time.

[PostmodernProphet]

you anology sucks....

that's anal.....:)

[truthmatters]

Well are any of the right going to admitt that the American people obviously thought 911 and Saddam were tied together and that is why they overwhelmingly backed this war in the begining?

[manu1959]

Newsflash: I could give a fuck what you think of my ANOLOGY[sic] :laugh2:

I have no problem with a two front war.... I have a problem with starting conflicts in locations that have marginal relevance to that war. "Hey Orkin man!"

they are two different wars dip stick.....afganistan was about 911.....iraq was about 18 un resolution and violations of the terms of a cease fire....

btw you should move...your neighborhood sounds scary....

[manu1959]

Well are any of the right going to admitt that the American people obviously thought 911 and Saddam were tied together and that is why they overwhelmingly backed this war in the begining?

your presidential candidates have said this as well.....wonder why the head of the cia at the time...appointed by clinton ....sold this idea to congress and the american people.....what could the clinton crowd possibly have to gain my missleading the president congress and the american people....

[truthmatters]

MM knows they were ,I have known him of years and he was trying to tell people they were different. It was the people like you who were saying they were tied together.

Now would you like to address that fact that 70% of the people thought they were tied together before and shortly after the war?


Well I would like to note I am adding this an hour and a half later and no one is willing to answer this post now.

[bullypulpit]

It's a fact already that stockpiles of ammunition have been found in various places throughout Iraq. Some will argue the strength of said weapons, and where they derived from, but it doesn't change that it's a fact that WMD were found after the invasion. These weapons contained mustard and sarin gas, chemical WMD if you may.

And you think this is just a "theory" of mine? It's been plastered all over the news for a few years now. These weapons were supposed to be accounted for and destroyed per the resolutions. Furthermore, there are still tons of chemical weapons that were accounted for in 1998 by UN inspectors that remain missing till this day. It's a FACT that he had these chemicals, and it's a FACT that they were missing and never accounted for once inspectors returned to Iraq.

These weapons were left over from before Gulf War I. Sarin has a shelf life of weeks to months, and thus those rounds were useless. Depending on the quality of the mustard agents, they can have a shelf life of months to years. Given the corrosion evident on the photos available of those rounds, they would pose a greater hazard to those attempting to use them than any potential target.

But those few caches were not the stocks cited but the Bush administration as its justification for the invasion of Iraq. They claimed absolute certainty that Saddam had massive stockpiles of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and where they were. UNMOVIC searched many of the sites the Administration claimed were sites for the manufacture and storage of these weapons and found NOTHING. No evidence of the manufacture, storage or any attempted cleanup of the manufacture and storage of said WMD's. So much for their absolute certainty.

[manu1959]

MM knows they were ,I have known him of years and he was trying to tell people they were different. It was the people like you who were saying they were tied together.

Now would you like to address that fact that 70% of the people thought they were tied together before and shortly after the war?


Well I would like to note I am adding this an hour and a half later and no one is willing to answer this post now.

your post isn't directed at anyone....we figured you were arguing with yourself again......

if 70% of the people thought that it was probably because people in congress and the senate and the cia and the white house all said it over and over and over.........btw...the war isn't over....

[jimnyc]

These weapons were left over from before Gulf War I. Sarin has a shelf life of weeks to months, and thus those rounds were useless. Depending on the quality of the mustard agents, they can have a shelf life of months to years. Given the corrosion evident on the photos available of those rounds, they would pose a greater hazard to those attempting to use them than any potential target.

But those few caches were not the stocks cited but the Bush administration as its justification for the invasion of Iraq. They claimed absolute certainty that Saddam had massive stockpiles of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and where they were. UNMOVIC searched many of the sites the Administration claimed were sites for the manufacture and storage of these weapons and found NOTHING. No evidence of the manufacture, storage or any attempted cleanup of the manufacture and storage of said WMD's. So much for their absolute certainty.

I'll repeat what I had wrote in another post...

Here's one report of what has been found:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=060622055545.07o4imol&show_article=1

And a report of such chemical weapons:

http://www.iraqwatch.org/profiles/chemical.html


Iraq initially told UNSCOM that 3,080 tons of mustard gas had been produced, but in 1995 Iraq reduced this amount to 2,850 tons. UNSCOM found Iraq's mustard gas to be at least 80% pure and determined that it could be stored for long periods of time, both in bulk and in weaponized form. In its distilled form, mustard gas has a long life, and can be stockpiled for decades. It is relatively easy to produce and load into munitions. Iraq admits filling some 550 artillery shells with mustard gas but says it misplaced them shortly after the first Gulf War.

About the Sarin:


Iraq adopted the "binary" method of weaponization, in which the components of sarin gas are stored separately until use, when they are mixed. The components of sarin are DF 2 and the alcohols cyclohexanol and isoproponal. Iraq manufactured DF 2 with a purity of 95%, and imported alcohols of 100% purity, so the detonation of its munitions could be expected to yield relatively pure sarin.
At first, Iraq told UNSCOM that it had produced an estimated 250 tons of tabun and 812 tons of sarin. In 1995, Iraq changed its estimates and reported it had produced only 210 tons of tabun and 790 tons of sarin. Thus, it is still uncertain how much tabun and sarin Iraq actually manufactured.

So basically, when the chemicals are weaponized in binary form they don't suffer from shelf life.

[retiredman]

they are two different wars dip stick.....afganistan was about 911.....iraq was about 18 un resolution and violations of the terms of a cease fire....

btw you should move...your neighborhood sounds scary....

and I am saying that when the perpetrators of 9/11 were still on the loose, worrying about UN resolutions was like calling the orkin man. There are certainly other countries who thumbed their noses at UN resolutions. We send enormous amounts of foreign aid to them....we don't invade.

[glockmail]

and I am saying that when the perpetrators of 9/11 were still on the loose, worrying about UN resolutions was like calling the orkin man. There are certainly other countries who thumbed their noses at UN resolutions. We send enormous amounts of foreign aid to them....we don't invade. What a weak argument. Just who the fuck was thumbing his nose at the UN louder than Saddam?

I hate Saddam defenders. How low will you go?

[Sertes]

Yes, sure, poor virgin U.S. ...

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/rumsfeld-saddam.jpg

And please, cut the crap. The loudest to cry is the Iraqi population, right now. As always when elephants fights it's the grass that suffer.


What are you attempting to compare here?

Compare? Nothing

I'm just reminding ostrych-people that blame France, Russia, etc, that when Saddam was actually using chemical weapons he was supported by the U.S.

It's history, you can try to hide it, but you cannot change it.

[nevadamedic]

your presidential candidates have said this as well.....wonder why the head of the cia at the time...appointed by clinton ....sold this idea to congress and the american people.....what could the clinton crowd possibly have to gain my missleading the president congress and the american people....

A blowjob maybe?

[glockmail]

Compare? Nothing

I'm just reminding ostrych-people that blame France, Russia, etc, that when Saddam was actually using chemical weapons he was supported by the U.S.

It's history, you can try to hide it, but you cannot change it.The US never supported Saddam's use of chemical weapons.

[PostmodernProphet]

and I am saying that when the perpetrators of 9/11 were still on the loose, worrying about UN resolutions was like calling the orkin man

if you notice you have termites, it makes sense to call the exterminator BEFORE they finish eating your floor joists.....

[bullypulpit]

if you notice you have termites, it makes sense to call the exterminator BEFORE they finish eating your floor joists.....

Let's just chalk this argument up to a bad analogy.

The whole preventative war strategy established by the Bush administration overthrows the traditional paradigm whereby objective evidence demonstrates a compelling need for military action. It substitutes suspicion, inferences, probabilities, circumstantial evidence, hunches, tea-leaf reading, haruspicy, etc. for solid, objective evidence. This is why the Bush administration was able to build their case for war with Iraq on the flimsy, patchwork, cherry-picked intelligence foundation they did. The preventive war doctrine allowed for the invasion of Iraq based on inferences absent ANY conclusive proof.

[bullypulpit]

What a weak argument. Just who the fuck was thumbing his nose at the UN louder than Saddam?

I hate Saddam defenders. How low will you go?

Saddam is dead...nothing left to defend. Of course, he was executed before he could be tried for his other crimes which would have revealed the extent of US involvement under the Reagan and Bush I administrations in establishing Iraq's NBC warfare capability.

And that's an ugly freakin' avatar...A walking, talking, heart-attack-waiting-to-happen.

[red states rule]

Saddam is dead...nothing left to defend. Of course, he was executed before he could be tried for his other crimes which would have revealed the extent of US involvement under the Reagan and Bush I administrations in establishing Iraq's NBC warfare capability.

And that's an ugly freakin' avatar...A walking, talking, heart-attack-waiting-to-happen.

Yea, the left was crying crocodile tears when he was hanged.

The liberal media was outraged over his trial and shit their pants when he dropped through the trap door

[glockmail]

Yea, the left was crying crocodile tears when he was hanged.

The liberal media was outraged over his trial and shit their pants when he dropped through the trap door

Saddam shit his pants as well. But that wasn't the first time:

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z256/glockmail/phonecall.jpg

[red states rule]

How did the moonbat left react when Saddam met his maker?


NY Times on the 'Cruel Theater,' 'Abusive Conduct' of Saddam's Execution
By Clay Waters | January 3, 2007 - 16:01 ET
No good deed goes unpunished?

Fallout from the execution of Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein still dominates the New York Times, and it's not just conservatives who see some definite themes emerging from the massive coverage.

Slate's "Today's Papers" column noticed even back on Sunday:

"TP couldn't help but pick up on the distinct strain of grudging admiration that ran through the NYT's coverage of Hussein's trip to the gallows. An early edition of the paper's lead story said that although the witnesses it interviewed were enemies of the dictator, 'their accounts of the execution were redolent of respect for the way in which their former tormentor died.' The final edition version of the story omits the prior passage but says the widely broadcast videotape of the event suggested that he 'lived his final moments with unflinching dignity and courage, reinforcing the legend of himself as the Arab world's strongman.' An accompanying front-page piece about the dictator's final moments relates that he 'looked strong, confident and calm." A fitting final performance, I suppose, for a master propagandist.'"


Indeed, Andy McCarthy collected several examples from the Times of strange coverage of Hussein's execution at National Review Online's "The Corner."

Here's an extended excerpt from McCarthy:

"There is, naturally, 'Around the World, Unease And Criticism of Penalty,' by Alan Cowell, typical of which is this drivel from Tim Hames, of the Times of London: 'Mainstream middle-class sentiment in Europe now regards the death penalty as being as ethically tainted as the crimes that produced the sentence.' Of course, this reflects -- and could only reflect -- not the sentiment of the mainstream middle-class but of elite opinion in Europe, particularly of transnational progressive intellectuals who long for a post-sovereign Euro-state. Commonsense people, even those uneasy about or opposed to capital punishment, have no difficulty distinguishing the evil behind the crime and their reservations about the punishment. It is only the intelligentsia, which questions the very existence of 'evil,' that consequently finds itself without a compass for such moral and ethical distinctions.

"But the stand-out is Hassan M. Fattah's story, under the inane headline: 'For Arab Critics, Hussein's Execution Symbolizes the Victory of Vengeance Over Justice'. Memo to the Times: First, very often, vengeance is justice; that is why the most civilized societies (those based on ordered liberty) demand that the punishment fit the crime. Second, this is an especially counterintuitive headline and theme for a story that purports to convey the cultural sense of the Islamic world (indeed, a story illustrated with a depiction of thousands of 'pilgrims' in Mena, Saudi Arabia, observing the Eid)."

[End of excerpt]

Then there was Sabrina Tavernise's "news analysis" on Monday, "For Sunnis, Dictator's Degrading End Signals Ominous Dawn for the New Iraq."

Tavernise began:

"For Sunni Arabs here, the ugly reality of the new Iraq seemed to crystallize in a two-minute segment of Saddam Hussein's hanging, filmed surreptitiously on a cellphone….It was supposed to be a formal and solemn proceeding carried out by a dispassionate state. But the grainy recording of the execution's cruel theater summed up what has become increasingly clear on the streets of the capital: that the Shiite-led government that assumed power in the American effort here is running the state under an undisguised sectarian banner....It was a degrading end for a vicious leader, and an ominous beginning for the new Iraq. The Bush administration has already scaled back its hopes for a democracy here. But as the Iraqi government has become ever more set on protecting its Shiite constituency, often at the expense of the Sunni minority, the goal of stopping the sectarian war seems to be slipping out of reach."


Here's some of Jeff Zeleny's front-page "news analysis," "Joys of Capture Muted at End -- Grim Realities in Iraq Alter the Tone for Bush."

"Now, what could have been a triumphal bookend to the American invasion of Iraq has instead been dampened by the grim reality of conditions on the ground there. Mr. Hussein’s hanging means that the ousted leader has been held accountable for his misdeeds, fulfilling the American war aim most cited by the White House after Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction proved nonexistent.

"But that war is now edging toward its fifth year, and the sectarian violence that has surged independent of any old Sunni or Baathist allegiances to Mr. Hussein has raised questions about what change, if any, his death might bring."


Wednesday's lead story by John Burns and James Glanz continued finding the downside to the death of the dictator: "Iraq To Examine Abusive Conduct Toward Hussein."

"Iraq's Shiite-led government said Tuesday that it had ordered an investigation into the abusive behavior at the execution of Saddam Hussein, who was subjected to a battery of taunts by official Shiite witnesses and guards as he awaited his hanging.

"Officials said a three-man Interior Ministry committee would look into the scenes that have caused outrage and public demonstrations among Mr. Hussein’s Sunni Arab loyalists in Iraq, and widespread dismay elsewhere, especially in the Middle East. In an unofficial cellphone video recording that was broadcast around the world and posted on countless Web sites, Mr. Hussein is shown standing on the gallows platform with the noose around his neck at dawn on Saturday, facing a barrage of mockery and derision from unseen tormentors below the gallows."
http://www.newsbusters.org/node/9942

[Sertes]

Saddam shit his pants as well. But that wasn't the first time:

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z256/glockmail/phonecall.jpg

You see, laughing at dead people is always wrong.

And you choose the PERFECT image: do you think that sons should be judged by their father action? What about the support Bush senior gave to Saddam, then?

[red states rule]

You see, laughing at dead people is always wrong.

And you choose the PERFECT image: do you think that sons should be judged by their father action? What about the support Bush senior gave to Saddam, then?

His sons were murders and thugs - just like Dad

I would have buried them with Jimmy Dean Sausage, then pissed on their graves

[Sertes]

His sons were murders and thugs - just like Dad

I would have buried them with Jimmy Dean Sausage, then pissed on their graves

Still there's no point in laughing at them. A court should put on trial all torturers and murders and thugs and sentence them to death if found guilty.
But why the bad-taste jokes?
Do you like Juba video where Iraqi insurgents shoot U.S. army and laugh at them?

I see very little balance here, and a lot of bad manners.

[truthmatters]

Yea, the left was crying crocodile tears when he was hanged.

The liberal media was outraged over his trial and shit their pants when he dropped through the trap door


You are the most partisan person I know. You really and truely hate your own countrymen. You do just what OBL wants you to do by continuing to divide this country and fight to keep America tangled in the mid east.

[red states rule]

You are the most partisan person I know. You really and truely hate your own countrymen. You do just what OBL wants you to do by continuing to divide this country and fight to keep America tangled in the mid east.

Did you read the reaction the liberal media had? I posted them TM and they were whining how Saddam was insulted, and how the trial was a "rush to judgement"

[truthmatters]

You hate half of this country every bit as much as OBL.

[red states rule]

You hate half of this country every bit as much as OBL.

So now pointing out what the left say, does, and wants is now hate?

[truthmatters]

You never point anythig out. You simply construe anything the democrats say in a totally dishonest and biased way.

[red states rule]

You never point anythig out. You simply construe anything the democrats say in a totally dishonest and biased way.

I posted the exact words form the opeds whining about Saddam's hanging. How the hell is that a dishonest and biased way?

[truthmatters]

Yea, the left was crying crocodile tears when he was hanged.

The liberal media was outraged over his trial and shit their pants when he dropped through the trap door

This is your interpretation of what those articles were saying.

You Hate your own country men more every bit as much as Saddam hated them.

[red states rule]

This is your interpretation of what those articles were saying.

You Hate your own country men more every bit as much as Saddam hated them.

The interpretation is easy TM. Look at this headline from the NY Times



For Sunnis, Dictator’s Degrading End Signals Ominous Dawn for the New Iraq

By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 1, 2007
BAGHDAD, Dec. 31 — For Sunni Arabs here, the ugly reality of the new Iraq seemed to crystallize in a two-minute segment of Saddam Hussein’s hanging, filmed surreptitiously on a cellphone

The video featured excited taunting of Mr. Hussein by hooded Shiite guards. Passed around from cellphone to cellphone on Sunday, the images had echoes of the videos Sunni militants take of beheadings.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/01/world/middleeast/01sunnis.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin

A modern day Hitler who slaughtered millions, the NY Times is whining how he was taunted

[truthmatters]

The interpretation is easy TM. Look at this headline from the NY Times



For Sunnis, Dictator’s Degrading End Signals Ominous Dawn for the New Iraq

By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 1, 2007
BAGHDAD, Dec. 31 — For Sunni Arabs here, the ugly reality of the new Iraq seemed to crystallize in a two-minute segment of Saddam Hussein’s hanging, filmed surreptitiously on a cellphone

The video featured excited taunting of Mr. Hussein by hooded Shiite guards. Passed around from cellphone to cellphone on Sunday, the images had echoes of the videos Sunni militants take of beheadings.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/01/world/middleeast/01sunnis.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin

A modern day Hitler who slaughtered millions, the NY Times is whining how he was taunted



And you totally ignore what 90 % fo the article is about. You pretend as if he is a hero to the democrats and anyone who happens to point out the fact that This was not the way to execute him if you wanted to keep the violence in Iraq at a low. You refuse to see anything but your hate for your own countrymen. You hate half of your country. You know it ,I know it and anyone who reads your posts knows it. You get joy from having our country split in two and at each others necks.

[red states rule]

And you totally ignore what 90 % fo the article is about. You pretend as if he is a hero to the democrats and anyone who happens to point out the fact that This was not the way to execute him if you wanted to keep the violence in Iraq at a low. You refuse to see anything but your hate for your own countrymen. You hate half of your country. You know it ,I know it and anyone who reads your posts knows it. You get joy from having our country split in two and at each others necks.

No TM, the left was upset the death of Sadam was a good thing and it happened while George Bush was President

For you to bitch about someone being biased is a hoot

Also, I loved how the NY Times had this with the article (and others)

The NY Times mourns Saddam :lol:

[truthmatters]

Put the shovel down dude the hole is done.

[red states rule]

Put the shovel down dude the hole is done.

Oh no, here is one more from the NY Times


For Arab Critics, Hussein’s Execution Symbolizes the Victory of Vengeance Over Justice

By HASSAN M. FATTAH
Published: December 31, 2006
BEIRUT, Lebanon, Dec. 30 — As daylight broke over the Arab world and news of Saddam Hussein’s hanging spread over the airwaves and the Internet, the execution proved just as profound for what it did not change as for what it did.

snip

For those Arabs who celebrated America’s embrace of the rule of law, the quick execution, coming before the conclusion of other trials against Mr. Hussein for crimes against humanity, left a bitter taste of stolen justice. Even Mr. Hussein’s staunchest enemies expressed a sense of bitterness at the end.

“It is evident that they were not after justice,” said Hilal Khashan, a political science professor at the American University of Beirut. “It was a political decision, because as soon as they got a sentence on him they executed him. What mattered was his death rather than finding justice.”

For those distrustful or disdainful of American intentions, the notion that the execution fell on Id al-Adha, one of the most sacred holidays of the year, seemed to symbolize the triumph of vengeance over justice.

“It looks like they just wanted to take revenge in a vulgar way; that was their gift to the Shia for the feast,” said Khalid al-Dakhil, assistant professor of political sociology at King Saud University in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, referring to Shiites, who were oppressed under Mr. Hussein and now control Iraq.

“Bush and al-Maliki thought they could benefit from this, but this is going to backfire,” he added, referring to President Bush and Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki of Iraq. “Saddam’s execution is going to feed sectarianism and contribute to more bloodshed
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/31/world/middleeast/31arab.html

[red states rule]

We can't forget anout NBC News TM. Am I showing hate for posting one of their "news" reports on the death of Saddam?

NBC’s Engel Declares Saddam Hanging ‘Major Public Relations Blow For The U.S.’

By Noel Sheppard | January 1, 2007 - 10:17 ET

It should never amaze media watchers when a press member finds fault in justice being doled out to the clearly guilty, even when the party in question is a genocidal despot. With that in mind, it didn’t take long for NBC to question the integrity of Saddam Hussein’s hanging, and espouse to viewers a downside for America as well as the country the tyrant once ruled with an iron fist.

Adding insult to injury, correspondent Richard Engel so editorialized on the final “Nightly News” of 2006 (video available here):

It was a major public relations blow for the US administration and the Iraqi government which have been trying to show the world that Saddam Hussein received impartial justice. Now with this brief video, that's being called into question as today Saddam was laid to rest.

At the site of Saddam’s burial, Engel chose to first interview a grieving Hussein loyalist even though Iraq is dominated by Shia Muslims who passionately despise the former dictator:

“‘He was a born leader who fought and died a martyr,' said one man.” Next, Engel raised further questions about the nature of the justice applied: “But more were surprised by the execution's clear sectarian overtones. Witnesses taunted Saddam, shouting the name of the Shiite militia leader Muqtada al-Sadr.” Engel gave one final blow to the governments of America and Iraq: “Already tonight, John, Muqtada al-Sadr supporters are claiming that they, not the Iraqi government, executed Saddam Hussein.”

http://www.newsbusters.org/node/9902

[truthmatters]

You continue to completely ignore what and why they said this.

[red states rule]

You continue to completely ignore what and why they said this.

Not at all. They are trying to twist good news and try and convince people it is bad news for the US

Much like how the liberal media is doing now.

The US military is winning in Iraq, and Dems in DC are scared shitless. After 4 years of telling us how the war is lost, Iraq is a mess, and our troops are bing slaughtered - now the troops screw up the Dems surrender plans by kicking ass and taking names

[truthmatters]

Yeap you continue to ignore what they really were saying and created your own reality to match your bias. Nothing new from you.

[red states rule]

Yeap you continue to ignore what they really were saying and created your own reality to match your bias. Nothing new from you.

Yes, you are ducking, dodging, and spining.

The liberal media was pissed when Saddam has hanged, and they are pissed over the success right now in Iraq

Again, for you to complain about my bias is like Bill Clinton complaining about infidility

[retiredman]

Yes, you are ducking, dodging, and spining.

The liberal media was pissed when Saddam has hanged, and they are pissed over the success right now in Iraq

Again, for you to complain about my bias is like Bill Clinton complaining about infidility


the reason to be concerned about the method of Saddam's execution had to do with how it enflamed the sunni population. Saddam was an asshole and deserved to die, no doubt. He could have been executed in a way that did not overtly enrage 20% of the population.

No one is "pissed" about the success right now in Iraq. Getting ourselves back to the level of violence we were seeing two years after our invasion is a good thing, given how it had really spiked in the past year.... but the overriding issue remains the dispute regarding what our role in Iraq ought to be, who is really our "enemy", and when we need to leave.

[truthmatters]

His own little reality is all he can see.

[Kathianne]

His own little reality is all he can see.

Right, republicans words are to be interpreted, but real meaning of democrats words are not:

http://debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=154811&postcount=78

[truthmatters]

Does that mean you agree with his assesments of what the articles say?

[red states rule]

the reason to be concerned about the method of Saddam's execution had to do with how it enflamed the sunni population. Saddam was an asshole and deserved to die, no doubt. He could have been executed in a way that did not overtly enrage 20% of the population.

No one is "pissed" about the success right now in Iraq. Getting ourselves back to the level of violence we were seeing two years after our invasion is a good thing, given how it had really spiked in the past year.... but the overriding issue remains the dispute regarding what our role in Iraq ought to be, who is really our "enemy", and when we need to leave.

The liberal media and the Dems were pissed over his death. It was another success in a war that they have said was a failure and could not be done

The last thing you, and your party wants is for anything positive to happen.

That is why your party is fighting hard for surrender before the troops win the fight in Oraq

[retiredman]

The liberal media and the Dems were pissed over his death. It was another success in a war that they have said was a failure and could not be done

The last thing you, and your party wants is for anything positive to happen.

That is why your party is fighting hard for surrender before the troops win the fight in Oraq

that is your opinion and I disagree. The reason I gave for the concern about the Saddam execution scene was legitimate.

I have said over and over again that I am pleased by the reduction in carnage in Iraq. I hope it continues so that we can quickly get out of there. I do not believe that the reduced level of carnage is indicative of any long lasting rapproachment between Iraqi sunnis and shiites, however, and I don't think it has anything to do one way or the other with the inevitable alignment of Iraq with Iran upon our departure.

[truthmatters]

The liberal media and the Dems were pissed over his death. It was another success in a war that they have said was a failure and could not be done

The last thing you, and your party wants is for anything positive to happen.

That is why your party is fighting hard for surrender before the troops win the fight in Oraq

You are wrong and the articles you presented do not state this sentiment.

[red states rule]

You are wrong and the articles you presented do not state this sentiment.

The truth can't get through the filter you have on your brain TM

[glockmail]

You see, laughing at dead people is always wrong.

And you choose the PERFECT image: do you think that sons should be judged by their father action? What about the support Bush senior gave to Saddam, then?

That was the perfect image as Saddam tried to murder Bush 41. Payback's a bitch.

The US never supported Saddam's use of chemical weapons.

[truthmatters]

The truth can't get through the filter you have on your brain TM

Why dont you show me where in the articles your claims are written?

[red states rule]

Why dont you show me where in the articles your claims are written?

Try the headlines

Try NBC searching out people they know will whine about Saddam

The slant is clear - unless you are a liberal who hates Bush and you agree it was wrong to hang the bastard on a holiday weekend

[truthmatters]

I will note you can not produce anything proving your point. It is you who slanted the meaning of the articles.

Put the shovel down.

[glockmail]

You see, laughing at dead people is always wrong.
...

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z256/glockmail/HappyRamadan.jpg

[red states rule]

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z256/glockmail/HappyRamadan.jpg

I WISH I COULD REP YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Now the offended left will rant over your post

[red states rule]

I will note you can not produce anything proving your point. It is you who slanted the meaning of the articles.

Put the shovel down.

Nothing get through to your brain cells unless it has first been approved by the DNC

[glockmail]

Nothing get through to your brain cells unless it has first been approved by the DNC or Moveondotorgy

[red states rule]

or Moveondotorgy

or the Daily Kook Kos

[truthmatters]

You can not produce the evidence for what you claim and it is now obvious to any thinking person.

[red states rule]

You can not produce the evidence for what you claim and it is now obvious to any thinking person.

The proof is there

However, you hate Bush and pander to the terrorists so much, these liberal hacks seem perfectly reasonable to you

Much like how little Adolf Ahmadinejad and nutty Hugo came to America and smeared Bush and America. You share the same intense hate and rage - it seems natural

[darin]

the articles you presented state this


If you agree with him, why are you arguing?

[red states rule]

If you agree with him, why are you arguing?

force of habit?

in her blood?

[truthmatters]

If you agree with him, why are you arguing?


From which post number did you get that quote from?

I think you may need to learn what is in context quoting and what is out of context quoting?

[glockmail]

I WISH I COULD REP YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Now the offended left will rant over your post


That's Sheriff Gerald Hagey of Davidson County, NC back in 2001. This was his Christmas card to supporters.