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View Full Version : Troops Deserve More Than Bumper Sticker Support



82Marine89
11-10-2007, 10:44 AM
For this Veterans Day weekend I decided to read “Lone Survivor: The Eyewitness Account of Operation Redwing and the Lost Heroes of SEAL Team 10.” The story is about four U.S. Navy SEALs whose June 2005 mission in northern Afghanistan “was to capture or kill a notorious al Qaeda leader known to be ensconced in a Taliban stronghold surrounded by a small but heavily armed force. Less than 24 hours later, only one of those Navy SEALs remained alive,” Marcus Luttrell.

This book is Luttrell’s first-person account of that tragic day, “the largest loss of life in Navy SEAL history.” All thanks to asinine rules of engagement our military personnel are forced to fight under. I couldn’t possibly explain this intolerable situation better or with more moral authority than Leading Petty Officer Marcus Luttrell himself, so consider the following taken directly from the first chapter of his book:


“Looking back, during our long journey in the C-130 to Afghanistan, I was more acutely aware of a growing program which faces U.S. forces on active duty in theaters of war all over the world. For me, it began in Iraq, the first murmurings from the liberal part of the U.S.A. that we were somehow in the wrong; brutal killers, bullying other countries; that we who put our lives on the line for our nation at the behest of our government should somehow be charged with murder for shooting our enemy.

“It’s been an insidious progression, the criticisms of the U.S. Armed Forces from politicians and from the liberal media, which knows nothing of combat, nothing of our training, and nothing of the mortal dangers we face out there on the front line. Each of the six of us in that aircraft en route to Afghanistan had constantly in the back of our minds the ever-intrusive rules of engagement.

“These are drawn up for us to follow by some politician sitting in some distant committee room in Washington, D.C. And that’s a very long way from the battlefield where a sniper’s bullet can blast your head, where the slightest mistake can cost your life, where you need to kill your enemy before he kills you.

“And those ROE are very specific: we may not open fire until we are fired upon or have positively identified our enemy and have proof of his intentions. Now, that’s all very gallant. But how about…when a bunch of guys wearing colored towels around their heads and brandishing AK-47s come charging over the horizon straight toward you? Do you wait for them to start killing your team, or do you mow the bastards down before they get a chance to do so?

“That situation might look simple in Washington, where the human rights of terrorists are often given high priority. And I am certain liberal politicians would defend their position to the death. Because everybody knows liberals have never been wrong about anything. You can ask them. Anytime.

“However, from the standpoint of the U.S. soldier, Ranger, SEAL, Green Beret, or whatever, those ROE represent a very serious conundrum. We understand we must obey them because they happen to come under the laws of the country we are sworn to serve. But they represent a danger to us; they undermine our confidence on the battlefield in the fight against world terror. Worse yet, they make us concerned, disheartened, and sometimes hesitant.

“I can say from first-hand experience that those rules of engagement cost the lives of three of the finest U.S. Navy SEALs who have ever served. I’m not saying that given the serious situation, those elite American warriors might not have died a little later; but they would not have died right then, and in my view would almost certainly have been alive today.

“I am hopeful that one day soon, the U.S. government will learn that we can be trusted. We know about bad guys, what they do, and, often, who they are. The politicians have chosen to send us into battle, and that’s our trade. We do what’s necessary. And in my view, once those politicians have elected to send us out to do what 99.9 percent of the country would be terrified to undertake, they should get the hell out of the way and stay there.

“…I realize I am not being specific, and I have no intention of being so. But these broad brushstrokes are designed to show that the rules of engagement are a clear and present danger, frightening young soldiers, who have been placed in harm’s way by their government, into believing they may be charged with murder if they defend themselves too vigorously. . . . I simply do not want to see some of the best young men in the country hesitating to join the elite branches of the U.S. Armed Services because they’re afraid they might be accused of war crimes by their own side, just for attacking the enemy.

“And I know one thing for certain. If I ever rounded a mountainside in Afghanistan and came face to face with Osama bin Laden, the man who masterminded the vicious, unprovoked attack on my country, killing 2,572 innocent American civilians in New York on 9/11, I’d shoot him dead, in cold blood. At which point, urged on by an outraged American media, the military would probably incarcerate me UNDER the jail, never mind IN it. And then I’d be charged with murder.

“Tell you what. I’d still shoot the sonofabitch.”

This Veterans Day, let’s commit to doing more than just slapping an “I Support the Troops” bumper sticker on our car or tying a yellow ribbon ‘round the old oak tree. Let’s commit to fighting to give men like Marcus Luttrell the freedom, authority and confidence they need to do the job they’ve been trained to do and we’ve asked them to do. Supporting the troops doesn’t mean bringing them home while the threat to our nation and our citizens still exists. It means letting them win. It means letting them kick (expletive) and take names. It means pinning a medal on their chest for killing a bad guy, not pinning a murder rap on them.

And it means extending a heartfelt “Thank You!” to each and every veteran you come across this Veterans Day. They’ve earned it. And then some.


click the link for Muth's Truth's (http://www.citizenoutreach.com/)

Gaffer
11-10-2007, 09:43 PM
Its time the politicians got out of the war business. If they are so anxious to run things let them put on uniforms and go over and do it themselves. If they can't do that they need to sit down and shut up and let the military do what they do best.

Looks like a real interesting read.

retiredman
11-10-2007, 09:46 PM
civilian direction and control of the military is absolutely necessary for our democracy.

Gaffer
11-10-2007, 10:34 PM
civilian direction and control of the military is absolutely necessary for our democracy.

And that control is in the form of the president. Not lawyers and congressional weenies. ROE's are written by lawyers and others that have never been within 1000 miles of a combat zone.

I think anyone that writes ROE's should have to have served in combat.

82Marine89
11-10-2007, 10:36 PM
And that control is in the form of the president. Not lawyers and congressional weenies. ROE's are written by lawyers and others that have never been within 1000 miles of a combat zone.

I think anyone that writes ROE's should have to have served in combat.

Agreed.

retiredman
11-10-2007, 10:39 PM
And that control is in the form of the president. Not lawyers and congressional weenies. ROE's are written by lawyers and others that have never been within 1000 miles of a combat zone.

I think anyone that writes ROE's should have to have served in combat.

do you think that ROE's are written by anyone outside the executive branch?

Congress, to my knowledge, does not involve itself in writing the rules of engagement.

Gaffer
11-10-2007, 11:01 PM
do you think that ROE's are written by anyone outside the executive branch?

Congress, to my knowledge, does not involve itself in writing the rules of engagement.

Yes I do think they are written outside the executive branch. Which pisses me off that Bush would allow it.

Congress doesn't write the ROE's but you can bet they have input as to what goes into them.

retiredman
11-10-2007, 11:06 PM
Yes I do think they are written outside the executive branch. Which pisses me off that Bush would allow it.

Congress doesn't write the ROE's but you can bet they have input as to what goes into them.

I would like to see some proof of that. I think that is anecdotal bullshit.

I thnk ROEs are written by operational staff with the assistance of staff JAG. period....they are approved by DoD suits, but I am unaware of any input from outside the department of defense and the national military command structure.

Gaffer
11-10-2007, 11:32 PM
I would like to see some proof of that. I think that is anecdotal bullshit.

I thnk ROEs are written by operational staff with the assistance of staff JAG. period....they are approved by DoD suits, but I am unaware of any input from outside the department of defense and the national military command structure.

Your probably right about who writes it. A bunch of JAG officers and staff that have never been near combat and a bunch of suits that would know how to spell it, let alone what a soldier should do. That's why I say anyone that is writing ROE's should have combat experience.

I don't know that congress is involved in writing them, it's just a suspicion. If I come up with actual proof I will post it here for sure.

retiredman
11-11-2007, 06:22 PM
Your probably right about who writes it. A bunch of JAG officers and staff that have never been near combat and a bunch of suits that would know how to spell it, let alone what a soldier should do. That's why I say anyone that is writing ROE's should have combat experience.

I don't know that congress is involved in writing them, it's just a suspicion. If I come up with actual proof I will post it here for sure.

and who do all those folks work for?

and who, therefore, should be the recipient of all of your ire?

Kathianne
11-11-2007, 07:08 PM
I've posted this link before, but since it's Veteran's Day and our troops do need our support:

http://soldiersangels.org/index.php?page=about-project-valour-it

JohnDoe
11-11-2007, 07:20 PM
too partisan of a read for my comfort, trying to blame liberals for all ills...just garbage, he should have left that part out of his book, the liberal blame game imho and maybe it would be a good read....

82Marine89
11-11-2007, 07:50 PM
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/82Marine89/Freedom.jpg

gabosaurus
11-12-2007, 12:22 PM
What are you proposing? Altars? A collection of young female virgins?

waterrescuedude2000
11-12-2007, 11:44 PM
civilian direction and control of the military is absolutely necessary for our democracy.

NO... Lets see when I was first in back in 1997 we were in port San Diego. And as a pier watch we were not issued sidearms or guns at all. We had a wooden stick known as a Baton... One evening I had a guy that had somehow without a Military ID of any kind want access to the pier to get w tour of a ship. This does not happen maybe at Rose festival and Fleet week yeah they do tours.. But this guy had no ID and wanted past us. had he been armed how would I have been able to stop him with a piece of wood???? No these cake eating pinstripe suit wearing morons should be able to say when we get in a conflict that I agree with. But as far as ROE Rules of Engagement a cake eating civilian government jackass should have no say so in the matter. Anyone who has been in the military goes through extensive training in how to handle weapons and weapons safety. And there were times we were issued weapons but couldn't keep them loaded. Thats just dumb.. We have to hope we have time to reload. A terrorist isn't gonna wait for niceities like that. They are gonna come in fully loaded and not wait for us to load our weapons. So why should we have to carry weapons that are not loaded??

manu1959
11-12-2007, 11:48 PM
for me the ROE.....should be ...if you are sending the military in....let them engage as the see fit...ffs that is what we trained em for....