Another Indication That Iraq Has Been Won

[Kathianne]

It's really long, but really telling. A 'quote' won't do:

http://www.mudvillegazette.com/archives/009692.html

[gabosaurus]

Shouldn't this be in Current News Stories?

Or perhaps "Current Bullshit Stories"

[Said1]

Shouldn't this be in Current News Stories?

Or perhaps "Current Bullshit Stories"

Quick. Get the pooper scooper before it starts to smell like shit in here.

[Dilloduck]

Quick. Get the pooper scooper before it starts to smell like shit in here.

Trolls just stink----nothing will help.

[Hobbit]

Shouldn't this be in Current News Stories?

Or perhaps "Current Bullshit Stories"

Dear Troll Candidate,

Thank you for your troll. Your troll has been evaluated by
our panel of experts. Here are the results of our tests.

We found that your troll was...
[ ] Incomprehensible
[x] Offensive
[x] Just plain stupid
[x] Without merit
[x] Grammatically incorrect
[x] Laced with spelling and punctuation errors
[ ] Laden with circular reasoning
[x] Laced with misunderstandings of basic scientific principles
[x] Somewhat too revealing of your minimal mental abilities
[x] Too similar to other trolls submitted by candidates in the past.

You could improve your troll considerably by...
[x] Including a few actual facts.
[x] Taking remedial English lessons
[x] Mentioning the Iraq War more.
[x] Mentioning hanging chads more.
[x] Mentioning that you are a professional.
[x] Stating more falsehoods as facts than you already have.
[x] Swearing more.
[x] Including more colorful personal insults.
[x] Using the phrases "you people" or "those people" more.
[x] Modifying your insults to cover larger groups of people at once.
[ ] Ranting incoherently.
[x] Using religious or racial slurs.
[x] Using the words "junk", "crap", "garbage", "neo-con", "flimsy" and "Professional" more frequently.
[ ] Using childish taunts.
[x] Including fake laughter such as "ha ha ha" or "har de har de har".
[x] Focusing on just one outrageous topic will give your troll more punch.
[ ] Ignoring any facts, and using more absolutes in your troll.
[x] Using all capital letters.
[x] Focusing more on those areas in which their opinion is clearly inferior to yours for reasons so obvious you can't be bothered to state them.
[ ] Exaggerate more, you need not be limited by facts. Examples: Say that Christianity is more dangerous than radical Islam. Say that the economy is worse than in the early 30s. Simultaneously claim that Bush is dumber than a bag of rocks while also claiming he's brilliant enough to pull off convoluted schemes.

Please get a...
[x] life
[x] grip
[x] job
[x] clue
[x] book on basic logic
[ ] note from your mom

You should...
[x] Have someone who can read review your postings.
[ ] Save your postings out and think later if you really want to send them.
[x] Take your meds.
[x] Not have "one for the road" next time.
[x] Stay in school.
[x] Go and vote for whoever you want, we don't care.
[ ] Think about other people's feelings before you post.
[x] Get your ego boost some other way.
[x] Realize that by trolling a group you hurt everyone, not just the people you are mad at.
[x] Go away so we can talk about grown-up things.
[ ] Put up a web site with your great opinions on it to show the world.
[ ] Take down your web site, your 'articles' are incoherent and stupid.


Suggested other activities besides trolling.
[x] Posting something constructive.
[x] Making actual points with your post.
[x] Helping someone else.
[x] Spending some time with your family instead of your keyboard.
[ ] Working off that big pot belly.
[x] Get your ego boost instead by helping out at a local hospital.
[x] Consider another hobby that does not require contact with other humans such as wood burning, breeding flowers, painting or mortuary science.

Thanks for your submission.

You have [ ] passed [ ] passed with honors [x] failed.

[April15]

Dear Troll Candidate,

Thank you for your troll. Your troll has been evaluated by
our panel of experts. Here are the results of our tests.

We found that your troll was...
[ ] Incomprehensible
[x] Offensive
[x] Just plain stupid
[x] Without merit
[x] Grammatically incorrect
[x] Laced with spelling and punctuation errors
[ ] Laden with circular reasoning
[x] Laced with misunderstandings of basic scientific principles
[x] Somewhat too revealing of your minimal mental abilities
[x] Too similar to other trolls submitted by candidates in the past.

You could improve your troll considerably by...
[x] Including a few actual facts.
[x] Taking remedial English lessons
[x] Mentioning the Iraq War more.
[x] Mentioning hanging chads more.
[x] Mentioning that you are a professional.
[x] Stating more falsehoods as facts than you already have.
[x] Swearing more.
[x] Including more colorful personal insults.
[x] Using the phrases "you people" or "those people" more.
[x] Modifying your insults to cover larger groups of people at once.
[ ] Ranting incoherently.
[x] Using religious or racial slurs.
[x] Using the words "junk", "crap", "garbage", "neo-con", "flimsy" and "Professional" more frequently.
[ ] Using childish taunts.
[x] Including fake laughter such as "ha ha ha" or "har de har de har".
[x] Focusing on just one outrageous topic will give your troll more punch.
[ ] Ignoring any facts, and using more absolutes in your troll.
[x] Using all capital letters.
[x] Focusing more on those areas in which their opinion is clearly inferior to yours for reasons so obvious you can't be bothered to state them.
[ ] Exaggerate more, you need not be limited by facts. Examples: Say that Christianity is more dangerous than radical Islam. Say that the economy is worse than in the early 30s. Simultaneously claim that Bush is dumber than a bag of rocks while also claiming he's brilliant enough to pull off convoluted schemes.

Please get a...
[x] life
[x] grip
[x] job
[x] clue
[x] book on basic logic
[ ] note from your mom

You should...
[x] Have someone who can read review your postings.
[ ] Save your postings out and think later if you really want to send them.
[x] Take your meds.
[x] Not have "one for the road" next time.
[x] Stay in school.
[x] Go and vote for whoever you want, we don't care.
[ ] Think about other people's feelings before you post.
[x] Get your ego boost some other way.
[x] Realize that by trolling a group you hurt everyone, not just the people you are mad at.
[x] Go away so we can talk about grown-up things.
[ ] Put up a web site with your great opinions on it to show the world.
[ ] Take down your web site, your 'articles' are incoherent and stupid.


Suggested other activities besides trolling.
[x] Posting something constructive.
[x] Making actual points with your post.
[x] Helping someone else.
[x] Spending some time with your family instead of your keyboard.
[ ] Working off that big pot belly.
[x] Get your ego boost instead by helping out at a local hospital.
[x] Consider another hobby that does not require contact with other humans such as wood burning, breeding flowers, painting or mortuary science.

Thanks for your submission.

You have [ ] passed [ ] passed with honors [x] failed.

You just make this up or have it handy to use?

[April15]

It's really long, but really telling. A 'quote' won't do:

http://www.mudvillegazette.com/archives/009692.html

The site I got directed to had a bunch of homilies about military things. None of it had anything to do with a win or loss.

[Kathianne]

The site I got directed to had a bunch of homilies about military things. None of it had anything to do with a win or loss.

Actually if you could read and comprehend, you would have realized it was a direct link to a posting on the war. However, there are some analogies being made to previous conflicts, maybe it confused you?

[Hobbit]

You just make this up or have it handy to use?

I got it elsewhere and use copy/paste when I need to.

[April15]

Actually if you could read and comprehend, you would have realized it was a direct link to a posting on the war. However, there are some analogies being made to previous conflicts, maybe it confused you?

Greetings! You are reading an article from The Mudville Gazette. To reach the front page, with all the latest news and views, click the logo above or "main" below. Thanks for stopping by!
« Soldiers' Angels get's adopted by Angels | Main | Dropping da Bomb for Valour-IT »
November 09, 2007
Chatter (and numbers that matter)
Greyhawk

Or: "How the War was Won (Part one)"

Preface:


Military policemen patrolled the tracks and bus stations to watch for deserters. The Army in the past six months had charged more than 2,600 soldiers with desertion and convicted 90 percent of them. Indiscipline also plagued units that had been staging in southeast Virginia for weeks. So many men were sentenced to the crowded brig at Solomon's Island in Chesapeake Bay during amphibious training that there was a waiting list to serve time; on October 3 alone, thirty men had been court-martialed for various infractions.

This week in military history: Operation Torch, the allied invasion of North Africa began.

It's a wonder we won that war.

"The idea of huge armies rolling along roads at a fast pace is a dream," Cavalry Journal warned in 1940, even after the German blitzkrieg signaled the arrival of mechanized warfare. "Oil and tires cannot like forage be obtained locally." The Army's cavalry chief assured Congress in 1941 that four well-spaced horsemen could charge half a mile across an open field to destroy an enemy machine-gun nest without sustaining a scratch... The last Regular Army cavalry regiment would slaughter its mounts to feed the starving garrison on Bataan in the Philippines, ending the cavalry era not with a bang but with a dinner bell.

*****

Let's move on to the present day, somewhere in Iraq: I drove to the Local Air Force Base earlier this week to pick up some new guys. This is always an exercise in patience - planes are never on time and information is sometimes unreliable. So you wait. And sometimes you wait some more. But today I didn't have to wait too long until learning that my guys didn't get to their waypoint in time to catch their flight in, so I only spent about 3 hours (including driving time) achieving nothing. I've had worse days.

Elsewhere:

Iraqi citizen leads Coalition Forces to EFP factory

HUSSEINIYAH, Iraq – A citizen of Husseiniyah led Coalition Forces to a building where explosively formed penetrators and improvised explosive devices were being constructed Oct. 31.

Soldiers of Battery A, 2nd Battalion, 12th Field Artillery, 4th Stryker Brigade Combat Team, 2nd Infantry Division, from Fort Lewis, Wash., discovered a large cache of explosives at the home, including about 10 fully assembled EFPs of various sizes including one 12-inch EFP – the largest found in Iraq – approximately 90 copper plates of various sizes, more than 200 pounds of C-4 explosive, other explosive materials including TNT and numerous other materials used in manufacturing EFPs.

“In our area of operations the EFP threat is significant, and there was enough material there to make 150 EFPs, so we may have saved the lives of 50-75 people over two months,” said Lt. Col John Drago, 2-12 FA, 4th Stryker BCT, 2nd Inf. Div. commander, noting that the discovery would not have been possible without Iraqi help.

There's a large, outdoor waiting area available at Local Air Force Base, and even a couple of seats for the hundred or so folks to sleep on while awaiting transportation. Those not fortunate enough to get one of the benches can sack out on concrete, dirt or gravel, whichever they prefer.

Sometime before finding out I was completely wasting my time I wandered into one of the larger outdoor waiting pens. For a moment I thought the ground was filled with backpacks and rucksacks, but on closer examination I realized it was filled with backpacks, rucksacks, and people in matching uniforms using them as pillows.

Tip leads Iraqi National Police to cache

FORWARD OPERATING BASE LOYALTY, Iraq – Based off a tip from a concerned citizen, officers with the 1st Battalion, 4th Brigade, 1st Iraqi National Police Division recovered a cache in the courtyard and surrounding areas of the al Mustafa mosque in the Mualameen neighborhood of eastern Baghdad Nov. 1.

The cache included two explosively-formed penetrators, eight rocket-propelled grenades, three rocket-propelled grenade launchers, seven rocket-propelled grenade motors, three rockets, 14 mortars, one sniper rifle with a scope and a 10-round magazine. A spool of wire, body armor and old Iraqi Army uniforms were also recovered.

[Kathianne]

Greetings! You are reading an article from The Mudville Gazette. To reach the front page, with all the latest news and views, click the logo above or "main" below. Thanks for stopping by!
« Soldiers' Angels get's adopted by Angels | Main | Dropping da Bomb for Valour-IT »
November 09, 2007
Chatter (and numbers that matter)
Greyhawk

Or: "How the War was Won (Part one)"

Preface:


Military policemen patrolled the tracks and bus stations to watch for deserters. The Army in the past six months had charged more than 2,600 soldiers with desertion and convicted 90 percent of them. Indiscipline also plagued units that had been staging in southeast Virginia for weeks. So many men were sentenced to the crowded brig at Solomon's Island in Chesapeake Bay during amphibious training that there was a waiting list to serve time; on October 3 alone, thirty men had been court-martialed for various infractions.

This week in military history: Operation Torch, the allied invasion of North Africa began.

It's a wonder we won that war.


"The idea of huge armies rolling along roads at a fast pace is a dream," Cavalry Journal warned in 1940, even after the German blitzkrieg signaled the arrival of mechanized warfare. "Oil and tires cannot like forage be obtained locally." The Army's cavalry chief assured Congress in 1941 that four well-spaced horsemen could charge half a mile across an open field to destroy an enemy machine-gun nest without sustaining a scratch... The last Regular Army cavalry regiment would slaughter its mounts to feed the starving garrison on Bataan in the Philippines, ending the cavalry era not with a bang but with a dinner bell.

*****

Let's move on to the present day, somewhere in Iraq: I drove to the Local Air Force Base earlier this week to pick up some new guys. This is always an exercise in patience - planes are never on time and information is sometimes unreliable. So you wait. And sometimes you wait some more. But today I didn't have to wait too long until learning that my guys didn't get to their waypoint in time to catch their flight in, so I only spent about 3 hours (including driving time) achieving nothing. I've had worse days.

Elsewhere:


Iraqi citizen leads Coalition Forces to EFP factory

HUSSEINIYAH, Iraq – A citizen of Husseiniyah led Coalition Forces to a building where explosively formed penetrators and improvised explosive devices were being constructed Oct. 31.

Soldiers of Battery A, 2nd Battalion, 12th Field Artillery, 4th Stryker Brigade Combat Team, 2nd Infantry Division, from Fort Lewis, Wash., discovered a large cache of explosives at the home, including about 10 fully assembled EFPs of various sizes including one 12-inch EFP – the largest found in Iraq – approximately 90 copper plates of various sizes, more than 200 pounds of C-4 explosive, other explosive materials including TNT and numerous other materials used in manufacturing EFPs.

“In our area of operations the EFP threat is significant, and there was enough material there to make 150 EFPs, so we may have saved the lives of 50-75 people over two months,” said Lt. Col John Drago, 2-12 FA, 4th Stryker BCT, 2nd Inf. Div. commander, noting that the discovery would not have been possible without Iraqi help.

There's a large, outdoor waiting area available at Local Air Force Base, and even a couple of seats for the hundred or so folks to sleep on while awaiting transportation. Those not fortunate enough to get one of the benches can sack out on concrete, dirt or gravel, whichever they prefer.

Sometime before finding out I was completely wasting my time I wandered into one of the larger outdoor waiting pens. For a moment I thought the ground was filled with backpacks and rucksacks, but on closer examination I realized it was filled with backpacks, rucksacks, and people in matching uniforms using them as pillows.


Tip leads Iraqi National Police to cache

FORWARD OPERATING BASE LOYALTY, Iraq – Based off a tip from a concerned citizen, officers with the 1st Battalion, 4th Brigade, 1st Iraqi National Police Division recovered a cache in the courtyard and surrounding areas of the al Mustafa mosque in the Mualameen neighborhood of eastern Baghdad Nov. 1.

The cache included two explosively-formed penetrators, eight rocket-propelled grenades, three rocket-propelled grenade launchers, seven rocket-propelled grenade motors, three rockets, 14 mortars, one sniper rifle with a scope and a 10-round magazine. A spool of wire, body armor and old Iraqi Army uniforms were also recovered.

and I suppose you 'forgot' some ellipsis, that indicate a lot more to the article, than even a second part, but here is the conclusion, after the explanation on what consititutes 'winning':


How did we win this war? Simply put, we won because we are the best. The finest soldiers and sailors and airmen and Marines in the world, and the best hope for people seeking hope for a future. And we are tired and hot is turning cold and we are far from home and soldiering on but you can't take that from us, and we won't let anyone take it from them.
*****

More to follow...

[Kathianne]

Any day now, our MSM, nah, not til next Nov...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7089168.stm

April, notice the same incidents? The difference is Greyhawk was adding historical connections:


Optimism grows in Iraq
By Jim Muir
BBC News, Baghdad

Is Iraq getting better? The statistics say so, across the board.

Over the past three months, there has been a sharp and sustained drop in all forms of violence. The figures for dead and wounded, military and civilian, have also greatly improved.

All across Baghdad, which has seen the worst of the violence, streets are springing back to life. Shops and restaurants which closed down are back in business.

People walk in crowded streets in the evening, when just a few months ago they would have been huddled behind locked doors in their homes.

Everybody agrees that things are much better.

But is the improvement only skin deep? And will it last once the American troops, whose "surge" has clearly made a difference, begin to scale down?

In the past few days, two events have underlined big changes that have happened in recent months on both the Sunni and Shia sides of the Iraqi equation.

Reign of terror

On Thursday, in a crowded public hall in the mainly Shia city of Karbala, south of Baghdad, the local police chief, Brig-Gen Ra'id Shaker Jawdat, bitterly denounced the Mehdi Army militia, accusing it of presiding over a four-year reign of terror there.

It was an extraordinary occasion. One by one, men and women stood up and screamed abuse at the militia, blaming it for killing and torturing their loved ones.

It could not have happened a few months ago, when the Mehdi Army - the military wing of the movement headed by the militant young Shia cleric, Moqtada Sadr - was the real power in the streets of Karbala.

A few days later, Moqtada Sadr ordered his followers to halt all forms of military action nationwide, even in self-defence.

That was a turning-point in Baghdad too. The number of bodies being found daily, dumped randomly in the city after being abducted, tortured and killed in sectarian reprisals, dropped from dozens a day to less than a handful.

Scenes of rejoicing

On Friday, near Samarra to the north of Baghdad, fighters from a Sunni faction called the Islamic Army in Iraq (IAI) launched a surprise attack on positions held by al-Qaeda in the area.

Police said the IAI killed 18 al-Qaeda militants and captured 16 others.

Shortly afterwards, another Sunni group known as the 1920 Revolution Brigades launched a similar operation against al-Qaeda at al-Buhriz in Diyala province, also north of Baghdad.

They captured 60 al-Qaeda suspects and handed them over to the Iraqi army, amidst scenes of rejoicing in the town's streets.

These also were events that simply could not have happened until recently.

Both the IAI and the 1920 Revolution Brigades used to be insurgent groups themselves, fighting alongside al-Qaeda against the multinational forces and Iraqi government troops.

Blow to militants

Now, starting with the western al-Anbar province and spreading east to Baghdad and mainly Sunni areas to the north, there has been a gathering trend whereby Sunni tribes and nationalist groups have turned against al-Qaeda as their primary enemy.

The Americans have seized on the tactic, encouraging tribal and other Sunnis to form regional associations, such as al-Sahwa (The Awakening), as a vehicle for getting government and coalition support.

In the provinces, tribesmen joining up are paid $600 a month to protect their own areas against al-Qaeda.

The trend has spread deep into mainly Sunni districts of Baghdad, where al-Sahwa has filled the gap left by al-Qaeda.

American forces have recruited thousands of young men, who are given uniforms and $300 a month to act as neighbourhood guards (known in US military jargon as Concerned Local Citizens, or CLCs).

They apply in droves, as there are no other jobs in town.

US forces have moved into virtually every area and set up fixed positions. They have local mobile phone numbers emblazoned on their vehicles for the CLCs to call if they run into trouble.

This, combined with the way in which the US troop surge has proactively tackled any al-Qaeda presence it can detect, has dealt a massive blow to the Sunni militants.

Islamic State elements have disappeared - shops have reopened - my daughter can walk to school without wearing a headscarf
Baghdad resident

The Iraqi Prime Minister, Nouri Maliki, is now openly claiming victory against al-Qaeda and its affiliates.

US military leaders are more cautious.

"There is no part of Baghdad in which al-Qaeda has a stronghold any more," said Brig-Gen Joseph Fil, commander of the Multinational Forces in Baghdad.

"But Baghdad is a dangerous place. Al-Qaeda, although on the ropes, is not finished by any means. They could come back swinging if they're allowed to, in fact, we've seen it," he added.

Bomb attacks rarer

But there is no doubt that it has lost out massively in Baghdad.

One resident of the mainly-Sunni area of Dora, in the south of the capital, summed it up.

"The Islamic State in Iraq (the umbrella name adopted by al-Qaeda groups) used to control most of the area like a phantom presence. I know Shia shopkeepers who were shot dead in their shops."

"They put up notices warning people to wear strict Islamic dress. Everybody was frightened. When we called the police to report bodies on the street, they said it was a no-go area and they couldn't come."

"Now, the Islamic State elements have disappeared. Shops have reopened. My daughter can walk to school without wearing a headscarf. Some Shias who fled have come back. And most important of all, we haven't heard of anybody being killed since July."

The setback dealt to al-Qaeda and affiliates has had a knock-on effect in the Shia communities too.

The often massive, indiscriminate bomb attacks for which they were blamed, and which used to hit Shia areas on a daily basis, have now become a rarity.

The huge drop in bomb attacks has removed one of the main raisons d'etre for the Mehdi Army, the most active Shia militia in Baghdad.

Since neither the state nor the coalition forces had been able to stop the bomb attacks before, the Mehdi Army could pose as the only saviour of the Shias from slaughter at the hands of fanatical Sunni extremists.

Militia power

"They were on the streets every day, with guns, controlling and checking people," said a Shia resident.

"When there were attacks on Shia shrines, such as Samarra last year, they killed many Sunnis in the area in revenge."

"Now, they are much weaker. Many of the leaders have been arrested or killed by the Americans. Others have fled. Some are still around, but they are keeping a low profile."

The US military admit that around 13% of Baghdad - mainly parts of the huge eastern Shia suburbs, Sadr City, where the Mehdi Army used to hold undisputed sway - remain to be brought fully under control.

But the decision by Moqtada Sadr to order a freeze on militia action has removed political cover from Shia militants who resist, and who are now regarded as "rogue elements".

"When we go to the [Shia-dominated] Iraqi government with lists of militia leaders we want to get, they're very supportive," said Baghdad coalition forces commander Gen Fil.

This whole thing is so US-dependent - it's temporary security - the Mehdi Army are just biding their time
Baghdad Sunni resident

One problem is that the Americans and the Iraqi government cannot use the al-Sahwa ploy of recruiting local youths in Shia areas to mount guard against the Mehdi Army. It simply would not work.

Unlike al-Qaeda's situation in the Sunni areas, Shia leaders such as Moqtada al-Sadr enjoy considerable popular support among the Shia, even if elements of the militia have got well out of hand.

Some residents of Shia neighbourhoods are optimistic that another six months of sustained effort might see the militias off for good. Others are not so sure.

Massive challenges

The huge problem in both Sunni and Shia areas is that continued success is desperately dependent on a continuing American presence, while the US is planning to start drawing down its forces next year.

"In my Sunni area, people are happy to see their sons defending the neighbourhood in an official way, because it's under an American umbrella," said one Sunni.

"That means they're not afraid that the Mehdi Army or another Shia militia will come through the lines and kill us."

The Iraqi Army and police have frequently been accused of either colluding with or turning a blind eye to the Shia militias, some of which have operated openly under the guise of official security formations.

We need federalism, but we also need a dictator, a strong powerful government - if we don't get the militia out, there will be no solution
Baghdad Shia resident

Especially among the Sunnis, there is little popular confidence in the Iraqi army, and much less, if any at all, in the police.

"Forget about the Iraqi police, they're either Mehdi Army in uniform or professional thieves, or both," said a Sunni living in a largely-Shia area.

"It bothers me that this whole thing is so US-dependent. It's temporary security. The Mehdi Army are just biding their time, and waiting to come back out and get back to business, extorting money from people, forcing them out of their homes and then renting them out. It's big business."

"I'm not optimistic about the surge, because of the sympathies of the Iraqi police and army towards the Mehdi Army," said a Shia from south-east Baghdad.

"It's an ironic situation, where we need federalism, but we also need a dictator, a strong powerful government. If we don't get the militia out, there will be no solution."

Purging the security forces of militia influence and sympathies is a huge task that needs a strong, neutral political will and a sustained effort.

There are many other massive challenges that will affect the outcome of the current struggle.

Need for reconstruction

Everybody agrees that military and security measures on their own can only go so far if not buttressed by economic, social and political progress.

The Americans and Iraqi government are well aware of the need to follow up with services - electricity and water supplies are still sporadic - and job-creation schemes if they are to hold the ground they are clearing.

Prime Minister Nouri Maliki has said that next year will be the year of services and reconstruction. At this stage, Iraqis are looking for performance and delivery, not promises and fine words.

One of the main stated objectives of the US troop surge was to clear a space for the Iraqi politicians to enact nation-building legislation and pursue national reconciliation as the cornerstone of the New Iraq.

But virtually none of the key pieces of required legislation has yet been passed by a fractious Iraqi parliament which has been wracked by factional disputes.

There is still no shared and agreed vision of Iraq's future. Kurds and some Shias want a loose, federal arrangement, while Sunnis and some others want a stronger, more centralised state.

It matters. To which Iraq are people signing up with the security forces swearing allegiance?

In the absence of progress at the top, the Americans are counting on developments and reconciliations at grass-roots levels, a "bottom-to-top" approach. How far that process can go at that level alone is an unanswered question.

Despite the progress in the security arena, the story is far from over. The casualty figures are down, but people are still being killed every day.

While things have improved greatly in Baghdad, inter-Shia power struggles in the south of the country remain intense, and insurgent activity continues strong around Mosul and Kirkuk in the north.

Nobody can underestimate the magnitude of the task ahead. And with the clock for US troop withdrawals ticking ever more loudly in Washington, it is a race against time.

But there can be no denying that many Iraqis, especially in Baghdad, are more optimistic now than they would have dared believe possible a year ago.

[April15]

After reading it still says nothing to me about winning.

[Kathianne]

After reading it still says nothing to me about winning.

Read what follows your last post, we overlapped.

[red states rule]

You know the war in Iraq is being won when Democrats are now using the troops as [awns to get their surrender date

Reid: No new war funds without timetable

WASHINGTON (AP) — Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said Tuesday that Democrats won't approve more money for the Iraq war this year unless President Bush agrees to begin bringing troops home.
By the end of the week, the House and Senate planned to vote on a $50 billion measure for operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. The bill would require Bush to initiate troop withdrawals immediately with the goal of ending combat by December 2008.

If Bush vetoes the bill, "then the president won't get his $50 billion," Reid, D-Nev., told reporters at a Capitol Hill news conference.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., made a similar statement last week in a closed-door caucus meeting.

The tough rhetoric does not necessarily foretell another veto showdown with Bush on the war. Similar legislation has routinely fallen short of the 60 votes needed to overcome procedural hurdles in the Senate. It is possible the upcoming bill will sink, in which case Democrats would probably wait until next year to revisit the issue.

But their remarks reflect an emerging Democratic strategy on the war: Force congressional Republicans and Bush to accept a timetable for troop withdrawals, or turn Pentagon accounting processes into a bureaucratic nightmare.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-11-13-reid-funding_N.htm?csp=34