Left Allows Europe to Fall to Muslims

[stephanie]

By Rabbi Aryeh Spero (more by this author)
Human Events
Posted 02/08/2007 ET
:clap:

In a recent interview, Prof. Bernard Lewis, famed historian and leading expert on Islam, warned that "Muslims seem to be about to take over Europe." The irony is that this takeover -- be it in 10 years or 30 -- is not because Islam has more tanks or better missiles than the Europeans. It is because the minority Islamic populations already living within Europe are making demands to Islamize Europe and no one seems to be willing to say no. No one has the political will to announce to the Islamic communities that daily life and laws in Europe must be in accord with the Western outlook that is Europe's heritage.

Was the fall of Europe inevitable? No, according to Prof. Lewis, who says it is coming about because "Europeans have surrendered on every issue regarding Islamic demands, due to political correctness and multiculturalism." Europe has become woefully secular and its tepid attachment to a forgotten and dismissed Christianity is no match for the zeal of Muslims who remain fervent believers in their faith. Having been force fed that all cultures are equally valid, Europeans consider it unenlightened to assert the primacy of their culture even in their own countries.

What is even stranger is that secularized and politically correct European elites do insist on the primacy of indigenous cultures and religions when speaking of other faraway regions, yet find such insistence arrogant when it concerns the indigenous culture of its own lands. In other words, other countries are there to preserve their own way of life while the West is supposed to jello-ice and even deny its historic way of life. The bottom line: "Europeans have no respect for their own culture." Their worship of open-mindedness, no matter the cost, is leading to their demise.

Perhaps for the first time in history, we are witnessing the death of a civilization not due to outside forces stronger militarily but because "instead of fighting the threat, Europeans have simply given up, and do not want to fight." Pacifism in Europe runs so deep that it goes beyond a reluctance to take up military arms and extends to not even battling verbally, be it with laws or assertive opinion, or by fighting for Western culture even in routine social conversations.

As is well known, after World War II, Europe began denigrating the concept of nationalism, and the further left it became politically, the further it extolled transnationalism. Brainwashing citizens against the natural human inclination to be proud and loyal to one's own country over others has boomeranged to the point where Europeans can no longer even make the case for their own culture and history.

The lesson for the United States is clear. So as not to fall and disintegrate as is Europe, we need strong national patriotism, a genuine belief in the West's Judeo-Christian heritage and religion, and a conviction that our inherited culture and civilization is best for us and has been the true source of our blessings, success and freedom. Bereft of these deep and abiding associations, what is there to fight for?

Moreover, it is necessary to assert that our historic ethos is superior to that which Islam is demanding. Europe, as well as history, shows that those unable to assert the primacy of their own culture at home are unwilling to even assert its parity, and mire in "suicidal self-abasement."

This self-abasement has gone so far that "sophisticated" Europeans extend respect and "understanding" to Islamic marital habits that they’d condemn if practiced by their own. They would never accept rampaging and burnings in response to cartoon publications and statements if done by fellow Englishmen. Nor would they countenance censorship of the press if a bishop was offended by some newspaper article.

Yet out of a strange deference and submission to things Islamic, many are accepting that which they would condemn if perpetrated by a native Christian Brit. In other words, Islamic "honor" is more important than British honor, and Islamic habits are given more deference than Western customs and mores continually under self- assault and self-criticism. Criticism is reserved only for our culture, the "bad, discredited, and passé Western culture."

What brought Europe to this pitiful surrender is the left/liberalism that has controlled it since the 1960s. This post-modern liberalism has used political correctness and multiculturalism to strip Europe of that which had previously made it great, and worthwhile. If it has proven a disastrous recipe for Europe, it certainly is no prescription for us in America. It is a cultural poison, a death potion. We, therefore, must not allow the elitist left to do here what they've already done to Europe. We know, however, that is precisely what the American Left is trying to do, and we see how the elitists in this country always ape Europe, demanding that "we Americans act more European-like."

To be sure, some in Europe accede to the demands of Islam over European life not out of a sense of cultural inferiority but fear, palpable fear. But the question remains: Given that the Islamists living inside Europe are not armed with tanks or other heavy military equipment, why can't the better equipped police forces subdue the Islamic gangs and imams that are intimidating the British and European public? Why can't law enforcement shut down the Islamic hot heads and centers that are creating such fear among Europeans that they’d rather forfeit actual civil liberties (freedom of speech), their culture, and way of life so as to appease the threatening Islamists?

Because political correctness has tied the hands of those entrusted to protect the home-grown citizenry. The courts and the ruling elites in charge of European legal institutions have made it almost impossible to enforce the laws and protect the people. New operational terms, such as racial profiling, cultural understanding, mosque sanctuary, community deference, etc., have been sanctified so that Muslims are exempt from the very tough investigatory and law enforcement procedures normally used when trying to apprehend other criminals and violators of the law. Sociology is replacing strength and common sense.

Worse, the blood-curdling threats by imams against the public go unpunished while candid and forthright apprehensions over what the Islamic community is doing to society is punishable as a hate crime.

Out of fear, Europe is appeasing. It has become a supplicant. Out of guilt, Europe is acquiescing. Out of years of self-criticism, it no longer feels worthy. Cynicism has lead to defeatism. Pacifism has replaced religion. They believed in the parity of everything, so they now believe in nothing -- not even themselves. They, not the enemy, are orchestrating their own national demise.

To those elites in Europe, and America, who feel a greater kinship with the exotic peoples of other cultures than with the dull citizens of their own country, there is nothing to fear. For what will have been lost is something, a set of cultural beliefs, they discarded long ago nationalisms that were objects of scorn and had, for them, become boring. An Islamized Europe is nothing to fret and worry over. Wrong!

Prof. Lewis warns: "The growing sway in Europe is of particular concern given the ever-rising support within the Islamic world for extremist and terrorist movements." But these self-righteous, self-centered elitists born of the 60s Left still need not worry. They probably will not be the victims of the annihilation they have wrought. It will be their children and grandchildren.

Rabbi Spero is a radio talk show host, a pulpit rabbi, and president of Caucus for America. He can be reached at www.caucusforamerica.com.
http://www.discoverthenetwork.org/Articles/Left%20Allows%20Europe%20to%20Fall%20to%20Muslims2 .html

I'm hoping the American spirit will survive this...As this is here NOW.
But from the way things are looking....................
I'm kinda losing hope...
:rock:

[Hugh Lincoln]

We aren't Judeo-Christian.

We're Christian. And a few other things. But fancy a rabbi lecturing the West on how to survive. He and his have been a driving force behind our destruction. While Muslims bomb us from above, Jews undermine us from below. Neither are our friends.

[Grumplestillskin]

Europe's not even close to falling in any way, shape or form. This kinda diatribe is nothing but alarmist pap designed 1) to be alarmist 2) to make neocons and conservatives on the American right believe they've "got it right" and justifies their position...

[Gaffer]

Europe, at least a large portion of it, will fall to the islamist. Probably in the next 10 years. America will see fighting in the streets as the islamists try to get control here as well with the help of the libs.

As for your post hugh FUCK YOU! you have no idea what your taliking about.

[Grumplestillskin]

Europe, at least a large portion of it, will fall to the islamist. Probably in the next 10 years. America will see fighting in the streets as the islamists try to get control here as well with the help of the libs.

As for your post hugh FUCK YOU! you have no idea what your taliking about.

No they won't. Enoch Powell said the same thing regarding immigration in Britain in the early 1960s. Been the odd racist confrontation, but the country is far from being taken over by anyone. People forget that for every Muslim born in Europe who follows the tenets of Islam strictly, a lot more embrace Western civilisation. THat is the problem when people generalise about a whole group of people. They take the extremists - like the idiot Iman who gabs off at that Mosque in Brixton - as the norm, when they are far from so. Ditto the nutter who killed Van Gogh in Holland.

[Hugh Lincoln]

As for your post hugh FUCK YOU! you have no idea what your talking about.

It's a tough topic to broach, I know. I used to be a regular conservative who believed the whole "Israel is our friend" bit. Anyone who said anything against Jews, I was ready to fist-fight (oddly, if anyone said anything against whites or Christians, I didn't care!) But after 9/11, I checked out some other resources and have changed my views. If you sincerely want to know what I'm talking about, here are some links.

http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Jewish-Influence-Kevin-MacDonald/dp/1593680171

http://www.csulb.edu/~kmacd/books-Preface.html

http://www.thepoliticalcesspool.org/archives.php

The Culture of Critique (hereafter, CofC) was originally published in 1998 by Praeger Publishers, an imprint of Greenwood Publishing Group, Inc. The thesis of the book is a difficult one indeed, not only because it is difficult to establish, but also because it challenges many fundamental assumptions about our contemporary intellectual and political existence.

CofC describes how Jewish intellectuals initiated and advanced a number of important intellectual and political movements during the 20th century. I argue that these movements are attempts to alter Western societies in a manner that would neutralize or end anti-Semitism and enhance the prospects for Jewish group continuity either in an overt or in a semi-cryptic manner. Several of these Jewish movements (e.g., the shift in immigration policy favoring non-European peoples) have attempted to weaken the power of their perceived competitors — the European peoples who early in the 20th century had assumed a dominant position not only in their traditional homelands in Europe, but also in the United States, Canada, and Australia. At a theoretical level, these movements are viewed as the outcome of conflicts of interest between Jews and non-Jews in the construction of culture and in various public policy issues. Ultimately, these movements are viewed as the expression of a group evolutionary strategy by Jews in their competition for social, political and cultural dominance with non-Jews.

[jillian]

As for your post hugh FUCK YOU! you have no idea what your taliking about.

Of course he doesn't. But he's a neo-nazi who likes going by the names of famous jew haters .....

just so you know where the sick stuff is coming from.

[Gaffer]

Of course he doesn't. But he's a neo-nazi who likes going by the names of famous jew haters .....

just so you know where the sick stuff is coming from.

Yep your right and I am familiar with him. He's just from another branch of the noahide conspiracy bunch.

[jillian]

Yep your right and I am familiar with him. He's just from another branch of the noahide conspiracy bunch.

Sick, isn't it?? *sigh*

[Gaffer]

No they won't. Enoch Powell said the same thing regarding immigration in Britain in the early 1960s. Been the odd racist confrontation, but the country is far from being taken over by anyone. People forget that for every Muslim born in Europe who follows the tenets of Islam strictly, a lot more embrace Western civilisation. THat is the problem when people generalise about a whole group of people. They take the extremists - like the idiot Iman who gabs off at that Mosque in Brixton - as the norm, when they are far from so. Ditto the nutter who killed Van Gogh in Holland.

I don't think all of europe will fall. Just a major part of it. And the immigrations have been going on since the 60's and your starting to see the results of multiculturalism as opposed to assimilation. Britain wil need another churchill to get them out of this problem. But they can still do it. France is lost.

[Pale Rider]

Europe's not even close to falling in any way, shape or form. This kinda diatribe is nothing but alarmist pap designed 1) to be alarmist 2) to make neocons and conservatives on the American right believe they've "got it right" and justifies their position...

"Alarmist"? Grump, that's the liberal buzz word for, "if you don't look at it maybe it will go away".

"Neocon"? I don't think you even know what the word means.

There's PLENTY of cause for alarm in europe. I found these two articles with just one quick, little search. Europe has a MAJOR problem with the muslims, RIGHT NOW! Or did you forget all those HUGE RIOTS just recently in France already? Radical islam will be the cause of WWIII. I personally will take delight in SAWING THE FUCKING HEAD OFF a terrorist, since I know THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HE WANTS TO DO TO ME.

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/9519/radicalld1.jpg

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/9102/radical2de9.jpg

[Roomy]

If that is the case I am pleased I don't live in Europe, us Brits will probably be safe for a while yet.

[trobinett]

Every time I see a supporter of Islam, his hand is in the air, and his mouth is WIDE OPEN. Oh, and I'm sure he isn't yelling out how much he wants to "bond"with his Christain brothers, and sisters.

Pretty much covers it for me.

[Pale Rider]

Every time I see a supporter of Islam, his hand is in the air, and his mouth is WIDE OPEN. Oh, and I'm sure he isn't yelling out how much he wants to "bond"with his Christain brothers, and sisters.

Pretty much covers it for me.

Or they've got a scarf wrapped around their face to hide it, and they're pumping an AK-47 up and down. Yeah... they're screaming about supporting the local womens aide, right after they've beaten their wives.

[trobinett]

Or they've got a scarf wrapped around their face to hide it, and they're pumping an AK-47 up and down. Yeah... they're screaming about supporting the local womens aide, right after they've beaten their wives.

Yea, whats up with the scarf anyway?

I always thought that was chicken shit.

I'll bet those fucks drop their arms, close their big pie holes, and remove the scarf's when they meet up with our troops.:splat:

[TheSage]

Europe, at least a large portion of it, will fall to the islamist. Probably in the next 10 years. America will see fighting in the streets as the islamists try to get control here as well with the help of the libs.

As for your post hugh FUCK YOU! you have no idea what your taliking about.

We're not judeo christian, gaffer. Jews were just some character from our holy book. We are descended from caucasians of the north atlantic hellenized to a certain degree under the thumb of rome, like half the world. Only recently has the myth been propagated that jews created the west, or some shit like that. It's a zionist fable.

[manu1959]

We're not judeo christian, gaffer. Jews were just some character from our holy book. We are descended from caucasians of the north atlantic hellenized to a certain degree under the thumb of rome, like half the world. Only recently has the myth been propagated that jews created the west, or some shit like that. It's a zionist fable.

you belive in evolution right?

[Grumplestillskin]

"Alarmist"? Grump, that's the liberal buzz word for, "if you don't look at it maybe it will go away".

"Neocon"? I don't think you even know what the word means.

There's PLENTY of cause for alarm in europe. I found these two articles with just one quick, little search. Europe has a MAJOR problem with the muslims, RIGHT NOW! Or did you forget all those HUGE RIOTS just recently in France already? Radical islam will be the cause of WWIII. I personally will take delight in SAWING THE FUCKING HEAD OFF a terrorist, since I know THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HE WANTS TO DO TO ME.

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/9519/radicalld1.jpg

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/9102/radical2de9.jpg

Two alarmist articles (which hardly back up your assertion) do not make it a fact. The riots in France were more to do with disinfranchised youth and being in ghettos than anything.

No, alarmist is the word used for those that take a subject and take the most radical/fundie stance and state it is the norm.

A neocon means new conservative, and in the venacular now means those that support extreme right wing views, or those views laid out in the PNAC.

[manu1959]

Two alarmist articles (which hardly back up your assertion) do not make it a fact. The riots in France were more to do with disinfranchised youth and being in ghettos than anything.

No, alarmist is the word used for those that take a subject and take the most radical/fundie stance and state it is the norm.

A neocon means new conservative, and in the venacular now means those that support extreme right wing views, or those views laid out in the PNAC.

i find your post funny......i belive that alarmists have hijacked the word neocon ......

[Grumplestillskin]

i find your post funny......i belive that alarmists have hijacked the word neocon ......

Just call me Chicken Little.....:flameth:

[Hobbit]

This is really depressing. For over 1000 years, Christian Europe (Catholic west, Orthodox east) stood between Islam and world domination. The Byzantines held back the jihads straight through until WWI ended the Ottoman Empire. The Crusades held back Islamic expansionism by taking the fight right into the Holy Land. The Spanish "Reconquista" drove the Moors out of Iberia altogether and kept Islam from creeping in that way. For over a millenium, Europe held back this bloody religion, and now they have allowed themselves to be defeated by it, not because of any superior military power, but because they have simply lost the will to defend themselves.

[Yurt]

It truly amazes me that most people do not realize that muslims have one goal, one goal, one goal:

world control


All non muslims are subjected, and this is good for Allah. Make no mistake, they have been at war since day one. There are no moderates, it is a lie. A lie you say? Not from my lips, go to any muslim forum and you will see. Moderates do not exist, you are either "muslim" or you are not.

.....until they will submit.............yes you kaffir.......

[SassyLady]

No they won't. Enoch Powell said the same thing regarding immigration in Britain in the early 1960s. Been the odd racist confrontation, but the country is far from being taken over by anyone. People forget that for every Muslim born in Europe who follows the tenets of Islam strictly, a lot more embrace Western civilisation. THat is the problem when people generalise about a whole group of people. They take the extremists - like the idiot Iman who gabs off at that Mosque in Brixton - as the norm, when they are far from so. Ditto the nutter who killed Van Gogh in Holland.


Yes they are. There doesn't have to be "confrontations for one culture to obliterate another. All it takes is pacifism and apathy.

[Abbey Marie]

Yes they are. There doesn't have to be "confrontations for one culture to obliterate another. All it takes is pacifism and apathy.

Kind of reminds you of that old joke:

Question: "Which do you think is worse, ignorance or apathy?

Answer: I don't know, and I don't care"

(Hi KP!)

[SassyLady]

Hi Abbey!!

[Pale Rider]

Yea, whats up with the scarf anyway?

I always thought that was chicken shit.

I'll bet those fucks drop their arms, close their big pie holes, and remove the scarf's when they meet up with our troops.:splat:

Either that or they're dead. :boom2:

[Pale Rider]

Two alarmist articles (which hardly back up your assertion) do not make it a fact.

Yeaaaaaah grump... deny, deny, deny. Heeeeeeeres your picture....

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/6967/yikeslj8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Grumplestillskin]

Yeaaaaaah grump... deny, deny, deny. Heeeeeeeres your picture....

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/6967/yikeslj8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Yeeah Pale - scaremonger, scaremonger, scaremonger....:gay:

BTW, great party trick..who taught you?

[Grumplestillskin]

Europe held back this bloody religion, and now they have allowed themselves to be defeated by it.

Please back up this ridiculous assertion....please!

[Grumplestillskin]

Yes they are. There doesn't have to be "confrontations for one culture to obliterate another. All it takes is pacifism and apathy.

Yes they are what? What gains have Muslims made in Europe? What is the norm with regard to their behaviour? Is there Shira law in Europe? Do they have special rights and forcing non Muslims to comply to their demands? Please back up your POV with solid, hard facts. Also, are the majority of Muslims in Europe radical, and if so, why aren't they running ANYTHING over there at hte moment? No local govt, no govt, no public institutions - zip, nada, nothing...Rhetoric and alarmist leanings don't mean something has happened, they are just rhetoric and alarmist leanings :dunno:

[TheSage]

Please back up this ridiculous assertion....please!

Ever heard of the crusades?

http://www.al-bab.com/arab/history.htm#Crusades

[red states rule]

At least France has several ways to handle radical Islam

[avatar4321]

At least France has several ways to handle radical Islam

Am I the only one reminded of Darth Sidious when looking at the first picture?

[red states rule]

Am I the only one reminded of Darth Sidious when looking at the first picture?

No you are not

As far as Europe, history is repeating itself

[Pale Rider]

Yeeah Pale - scaremonger, scaremonger, scaremonger....:gay:

BTW, great party trick..who taught you?

OK grump, here's taste of your own medicine.

"Please show me that muslims have NOT taken over europe"? Ya see? Two can play that show me game. But I'll tell you right now, whatever you might find, and I know you WON'T find anything, I'll just say, "OH THAT'S BULLSHIT, THAT'S JUST PACIFIST CRAP".

Sound familiar? I see why people say you contribute nothing. All you ever do when GIVEN proof is pretend it's wrong, deny it's validity, or discredit it and ask for more.

Fuck that. You're game gets tiresome real quick.

[Pale Rider]

Ever heard of the crusades?

http://www.al-bab.com/arab/history.htm#Crusades

This thread is NOT about the crusades. Please stay on topic.

[Pale Rider]

No you are not

As far as Europe, history is repeating itself

The pic is a great find. I had to blow that up...

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/5080/jihadtz7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[trobinett]

Its a serious problem, and saying the problem is simply the product of alarmist misses the mark, and puts all of us at jeopardy.

What seems to escape those that want to shuck this off, is that its happening right under their collective face's.

I for one take it serious, and have been urging my representatives to pay close attention to the goings on in Europa, and HERE, as far as the spread of Islam, and the Muslim influence in general.

[Pale Rider]

Its a serious problem, and saying the problem is simply the product of alarmist misses the mark, and puts all of us at jeopardy.

What seems to escape those that want to shuck this off, is that its happening right under their collective face's.

I for one take it serious, and have been urging my representatives to pay close attention to the goings on in Europa, and HERE, as far as the spread of Islam, and the Muslim influence in general.

Long ago in America, in the absence of law enforcement, the PEOPLE used to take care of their own. What I'd like to see here in America is a vigilante coalition. I'd join in a heart beat. Because I don't believe for one second that the law will deal with the muslims here any different than they have in europe.

[Hagbard Celine]

Long ago in America, in the absence of law enforcement, the PEOPLE used to take care of their own. What I'd like to see here in America is a vigilante coalition. I'd join in a heart beat. Because I don't believe for one second that the law will deal with the muslims here any different than they have in europe.

So you're pro-lynch mobs?

[Pale Rider]

So you're pro-lynch mobs?

Yup. Does that make you nervous? Too fucking bad. That's the way they cleaned up the trash back in the old days.

[red states rule]

Yup. Does that make you nervous? Too fucking bad. That's the way they cleaned up the trash back in the old days.

It would clean up the trash today as well

[Hagbard Celine]

Europe, at least a large portion of it, will fall to the islamist. Probably in the next 10 years. America will see fighting in the streets as the islamists try to get control here as well with the help of the libs.

As for your post hugh FUCK YOU! you have no idea what your taliking about.

:boohoo: "Islamists" are the new communists. People like you feel the need to live in fear of something. Now that communism is dead for all intensive purposes, the Muslims are the new target of your fear and hate.

[Hagbard Celine]

Yup. Does that make you nervous? Too fucking bad. That's the way they cleaned up the trash back in the old days.

No it doesn't make me "nervous." Why would it make me nervous? Is that a cutesy way of saying that you'd lynch me if you had the chance? :rolleyes:

[red states rule]

:boohoo: "Islamists" are the new communists. People like you feel the need to live in fear of something. Now that communism is dead for all intensive purposes, the Muslims are the new target of your fear and hate.

You do not have to live in fear - as long as your pray five times per day, dress your women in a burka, want to kill as many Jews and Americas as possible - or you will be beheaded along with your family

[Gaffer]

Just because I and others here pass on information about the islamic threat does not mean we live in fear. We live in disgust over the lack of the appologists here to recognize a serious threat to our way of life. Fear doesn't enter into it. Neither are we alarmist. We are arming ourselves with knowledge and passing along what we learn.

Islam, ALL of islam is a threat to our society and civilization. Are they all bad? No, but their religion is. Which makes them all a threat. You have to look beyond the CAIR sponsed websites and look at the real islam to understand what they want and intend to do. we are not dealing with a small minority of radicals we are dealing with a very large theocracy that intends to conquor the world.

[Grumplestillskin]

OK grump, here's taste of your own medicine.

"Please show me that muslims have NOT taken over europe"? Ya see? Two can play that show me game. But I'll tell you right now, whatever you might find, and I know you WON'T find anything, I'll just say, "OH THAT'S BULLSHIT, THAT'S JUST PACIFIST CRAP".

Sound familiar? I see why people say you contribute nothing. All you ever do when GIVEN proof is pretend it's wrong, deny it's validity, or discredit it and ask for more.

Fuck that. You're game gets tiresome real quick.


Translation: I can't back up any assertions I made, so I'll just rant. Fair enough...:lmao:

[Pale Rider]

Translation: I can't back up any assertions I made, so I'll just rant. Fair enough...:lmao:

Yes I can, and did, as others in this thread have as well. However... you CAN'T. Oh... that's what you were talking about. :D

[red states rule]

Yes I can, and did, as others in this thread have as well. However... you CAN'T. Oh... that's what you were talking about. :D

This is all you need to know about Islam

[Grumplestillskin]

Yes I can, and did, as others in this thread have as well. However... you CAN'T. Oh... that's what you were talking about. :D

You did no such thing. You gave a couple of reports from op-ed pieces. I can and did. I know of no Muslim agencies or organisations that have taken over parts of Europe. Can you point out where they have?

[Grumplestillskin]

This is all you need to know about Islam

More empty rhetoric and sensationalism...

[red states rule]

More empty rhetoric and sensationalism...

It happens to be true. I never see any Jews or Christians rioting or murdering people over cartoons about their Religion

[Gaffer]

You did no such thing. You gave a couple of reports from op-ed pieces. I can and did. I know of no Muslim agencies or organisations that have taken over parts of Europe. Can you point out where they have?

Large portions of Paris suburbs are currently controled my islamist to the point the poice won't go in there. A few other places in england Are the same way though not to the extent paris is. The police aren't afraid to go in yet. But if your not muslim you had best stay out of there. It's the same area those guys lived in that wanted to cut off the head of a british muslim soldier.

The dutch have a problem, the belgians have a problem, italy has a problem, the spanish have a real problem as cardonia is almost out of control. America's problems will be centered in dearborn.

[Pale Rider]

You did no such thing. You gave a couple of reports from op-ed pieces. I can and did. I know of no Muslim agencies or organisations that have taken over parts of Europe. Can you point out where they have?

grump.... I don't mean to insult you, but I know of only one way to describe your utter blindness to a major problem, "UNenlightened". I know, that's really below the belt calling a LIBERAL that... :laugh:

[TheSage]

Sick, isn't it?? *sigh*


What's sick, jillian? The noahide movement or talking about it?

[Abbey Marie]

:boohoo: "Islamists" are the new communists. People like you feel the need to live in fear of something. Now that communism is dead for all intensive purposes, the Muslims are the new target of your fear and hate.

Wow. How many Beirut bombings, 9-11's, suicide bombings, train bombings & beheadings will it take before you recognize them as a genuine enemy?

Just a few pics to remember. Or should I say, to never forget?

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/09/27/9_11_narrowweb__200x293,0.jpg

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/interactive/world/0310/gallery.beirut.bombing/3.ap.jpg

http://www.heywakeupamerica.com/images/suicide_bomber_1_.jpg

[stephanie]

Wow. How many Beirut bombings, 9-11's, suicide bombings, train bombings & beheadings will it take before you recognize them as a genuine enemy?

Just a few pics to remember. Or should I say, to never forget?

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/09/27/9_11_narrowweb__200x293,0.jpg

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/interactive/world/0310/gallery.beirut.bombing/3.ap.jpg

http://www.heywakeupamerica.com/images/suicide_bomber_1_.jpg

Couldn't rep ya, so this will have to do....:beer:

[Abbey Marie]

Couldn't rep ya, so this will have to do....:beer:

I'll take a beer with Stephanie any time! :beer:

[Gaffer]

And iran keeps on plugging along.

http://www.inthebullpen.com/archives/category/iran-watch/

In an admission of the international community’s failure to hold back Iran’s nuclear ambitions, the document – compiled by the staff of Javier Solana, EU foreign policy chief – says the atomic programme has been delayed only by technical limitations rather than diplomatic pressure. “Attempts to engage the Iranian administration in a negotiating process have not so far succeeded,” it states . . .

“At some stage we must expect that Iran will acquire the capacity to enrich uranium on the scale required for a weapons programme,” says the paper, dated February 7 and circulated to the EU’s 27 national governments ahead of a foreign ministers meeting yesterday.

“In practice . . . the Iranians have pursued their programme at their own pace, the limiting factor being technical difficulties rather than resolutions by the UN or the International Atomic Energy Agency.

“The problems with Iran will not be resolved through economic sanctions alone.”






But hey, nothing to be concerned about, we're all just fear mongering here.

[trobinett]

Its truly a shame, but some will never understand the jeopardy they, and their families are in.

We find ourselves in the fight for our way of life, and yet there are those, that would pitch in with our sworn enemy, hard for me to understand.

I respect, and support our great nations diverse cultures, and the abilities of all to hold, and speak an opinion. There are times though, that I think some don't use their god given ability of common sense, to see the world as it truly is, a dangerous place, with factions pulling in many different directions.

I would suggest to those, that see no problem with the rhetoric coming out of the middle east, spend some time with those people, get a real "heads up" for their "take" on how the world would look under their direction.

Might just be a real "eye opener".:dunno:

[OCA]

People like Chump and Hag think that we can sit down over tea and a falafel and negotiate with these people, they believe that nothing has happened to warrant any fear or apprehension. Their heads are buried squarely in the sand.

Bravo to all participants in this thread who presented fact to back up their assertions, sans Chump and Hag.

Chump why do you ask for facts and then when presented with them ask for more? Why do you throw your silly assertions out there but refuse to back them up with facts? You know thats trolling, right?

Anyway you may be right that the rank and file Muslims in the world aren't radicals but the decision makers? Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, S.A...... Radicals through and through, even so in Europe.

[Grumplestillskin]

People like Chump and Hag think that we can sit down over tea and a falafel and negotiate with these people.

Really? With radicals? Doubtful. Have never said that. If I have, please point it out.


Bravo to all participants in this thread who presented fact to back up their assertions, sans Chump and Hag.

Where are the facts they presented? Pssstttt, Jim? You have an arse kissing smilie for ole OFA?


Chump why do you ask for facts and then when presented with them ask for more? Why do you throw your silly assertions out there but refuse to back them up with facts?

No facts were presented. Just links to sites that were or proved no such thing. What inroads have Muslims made in Europe? The slums in Paris have little to do with Islamists and more to do with poverty. Last year France outlawed the Burqa. The slums in the US aren't due to the Christians who live there, it is the poverty that causes the problem. When you have an inkling of what you are talking about, get back to me.


You know thats trolling, right?

Well, since you are the epitome of the term as proven by this post, I kowtow to your better knowledge and experience on the matter.


Anyway you may be right that the rank and file Muslims in the world aren't radicals but the decision makers? Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, S.A...... Radicals through and through, even so in Europe.

And what decisions are these WORD DELETED making in Europe? What is their influence? Is it the norm for all Muslims? If you want to talk about radical Muslims taking over Europe get your ducks all in a row and give me examples of what they have taken over instead of blowing hot air. A await with interest....

[Pale Rider]

Really? With radicals? Doubtful. Have never said that. If I have, please point it out.

Where are the facts they presented? Pssstttt, Jim? You have an arse kissing smilie for ole OFA?

No facts were presented. Just links to sites that were or proved no such thing. What inroads have Muslims made in Europe? The slums in Paris have little to do with Islamists and more to do with poverty. Last year France outlawed the Burqa. The slums in the US aren't due to the Christians who live there, it is the poverty that causes the problem. When you have an inkling of what you are talking about, get back to me.

Well, since you are the epitome of the term as proven by this post, I kowtow to your better knowledge and experience on the matter.

And what decisions are these cretins making in Europe? What is their influence? Is it the norm for all Muslims? If you want to talk about radical Muslims taking over Europe get your ducks all in a row and give me examples of what they have taken over instead of blowing hot air. A await with interest....

My God... what a pathetic conglomeration of psychobabble.

grump... all you ever do is deny, spin, redirect, and bullshit. Where's your substance?

[Grumplestillskin]

My God... what a pathetic conglomeration of psychobabble.

grump... all you ever do is deny, spin, redirect, and bullshit. Where's your substance?

All you do is answer with nothing...:dunno:

[Pale Rider]

All you do is answer with nothing...:dunno:

Wha? I've posted links, articles, commentary, all to which you shrug off with your usual, "well that ain't shit". "Show me something else".

YOU, on the other hand, post NOTHING but your almighty OPINION.

People WILL get sick of trying to make sense with you ya know. They'll see that it's nothing more than an excersize in futility.

I already see it.

[stephanie]

Unfortunately...... It's going to take a dirty bomb that kills 50,000 people for the liberals and pacisfist to admit there is a problem...

SAD....

They've already forgotten 9/11...
They've forgotten the first World Trade center bombing..
They've forgotten the USS Cole..
They've forgotten our Embassies blown up in Africa..
They've forgotten our hostages held for 444 days..
And the countless others in other Countries...


I'm just blown away when I hear these people say we are just being PARNOID..
There is NO PROBLEMS...

:dunno:

[Grumplestillskin]

Wha? I've posted links, articles, commentary, all to which you shrug off with your usual, "well that ain't shit". "Show me something else".

YOU, on the other hand, post NOTHING but your almighty OPINION.

People WILL get sick of trying to make sense with you ya know. They'll see that it's nothing more than an excersize in futility.

I already see it.

You have not provided ONE SINGLE unbiased link. A shit link is a shit link :dunno: You have backed up nothing.
I could easily find biased sites and post links. Big deal. You'd either ignore them or shoot them down. Rightly so too if they are biased...
What are you trying to make sense with me about Pale? The so-called Muslim invasion of Europe (or any other culture for that matter?) I'm sorry I don't kowtow to your alarmist view of the world.

Why is it an exercise in futility? Do you want me to agree with everythign you say and believe all the BS links you post? Yeah, right...;)

[Pale Rider]

You have not provided ONE SINGLE unbiased link. A shit link is a shit link :dunno: You have backed up nothing.
I could easily find biased sites and post links. Big deal. You'd either ignore them or shoot them down. Rightly so too if they are biased...
What are you trying to make sense with me about Pale? The so-called Muslim invasion of Europe (or any other culture for that matter?) I'm sorry I don't kowtow to your alarmist view of the world.

Why is it an exercise in futility? Do you want me to agree with everythign you say and believe all the BS links you post? Yeah, right...;)

Grump.... you're pathetic, and not worth the effort. You're in some serious denial. However, you liberals are all like that. Unbelievable. It's like you're in a different country, or have been in isolation for the last forty years, or you're from another planet.

I'm done trying to tell you anything.

[Grumplestillskin]

Thank Christ for that..:blues:

[OCA]

Really? With radicals? Doubtful. Have never said that. If I have, please point it out.



Where are the facts they presented? Pssstttt, Jim? You have an arse kissing smilie for ole OFA?



No facts were presented. Just links to sites that were or proved no such thing. What inroads have Muslims made in Europe? The slums in Paris have little to do with Islamists and more to do with poverty. Last year France outlawed the Burqa. The slums in the US aren't due to the Christians who live there, it is the poverty that causes the problem. When you have an inkling of what you are talking about, get back to me.



Well, since you are the epitome of the term as proven by this post, I kowtow to your better knowledge and experience on the matter.



And what decisions are these cretins making in Europe? What is their influence? Is it the norm for all Muslims? If you want to talk about radical Muslims taking over Europe get your ducks all in a row and give me examples of what they have taken over instead of blowing hot air. A await with interest....

On behalf of a true Cretan please refrain from using the word Cretin in a racist and derogatory way from now on.

[OCA]

You have not provided ONE SINGLE unbiased link. A shit link is a shit link :dunno: You have backed up nothing.
I could easily find biased sites and post links. Big deal. You'd either ignore them or shoot them down. Rightly so too if they are biased...
What are you trying to make sense with me about Pale? The so-called Muslim invasion of Europe (or any other culture for that matter?) I'm sorry I don't kowtow to your alarmist view of the world.

Why is it an exercise in futility? Do you want me to agree with everythign you say and believe all the BS links you post? Yeah, right...;)

Who are you to say a link is a shit link?

[jillian]

On behalf of a true Cretan please refrain from using the word Cretin in a racist and derogatory way from now on.

WORDS DELETED are unrelated. Nothing derrogatory about it. I already posted the two definitions for you.

[Grumplestillskin]

On behalf of a true Cretan please refrain from using the word Cretin in a racist and derogatory way from now on.

? Um, a WORDS DELETED are two different things. Mind you a cretin can be Cretan I guess, but that is in the eye of the beholder. I find it weird that you would equate the words – hhmmm, then again, maybe not (shrug). Until Jim decides to take a dictionary and decide what words are racist and what words aren’t, I’ll stick with using words as the dictionary intended them to be used. Thanks for your input though. Always appreciated.
PS: I thought you were a true American??

[OCA]

Cretin and Cretan are unrelated. Nothing derrogatory about it. I already posted the two definitions for you.

Semantics, splitting of hairs. The word will be deleted from now on when used in that fashion by decree of me.

[OCA]

? Um, a cretin and a Cretan are two different things. Mind you a cretin can be Cretan I guess, but that is in the eye of the beholder. I find it weird that you would equate the words – hhmmm, then again, maybe not (shrug). Until Jim decides to take a dictionary and decide what words are racist and what words aren’t, I’ll stick with using words as the dictionary intended them to be used. Thanks for your input though. Always appreciated.
PS: I thought you were a true American??

So people born abroad but become citizens are not true Americans? Is that what you are insinuating?

Again i'll repeat, when I see that word used in a derogatory fashion(surprised as hell to find out you are a racist, a dumbass I knew but a racist, huh go figure) it will be immediately deleted by decree of the man......me.

[Grumplestillskin]

So people born abroad but become citizens are not true Americans? Is that what you are insinuating?

Again i'll repeat, when I see that word used in a derogatory fashion(surprised as hell to find out you are a racist, a dumbass I knew but a racist, huh go figure) it will be immediately deleted by decree of the man......me.

So now you are the word police? You got better things to do, no? I'll use WORD DELETED if I feel like it. Do what you will. I mean only a dumbass would delete a word that isn't even racist and an even dumber ass would insinuate that somebody is a racist for using a word that doesn't mean such. What do you do for an encore, decide that the word happy means smelly, or that a car is really a horse? Why you think the words are related is beyond me, unless you were teased about it at high school and someboyd made a play on words, in which case I can see why you would object. I mean why would I even make the connection unless you pointed it out. Weird..:gives:

As for being a true American I dunno. Can you be a truly a Greek and an American at the same time?

[OCA]

So now you are the word police? You got better things to do, no? I'll use WORD DELETED if I feel like it. Do what you will. I mean only a dumbass would delete a word that isn't even racist and an even dumber ass would insinuate that somebody is a racist for using a word that doesn't mean such. What do you do for an encore, decide that the word happy means smelly, or that a car is really a horse? Why you think the words are related is beyond me, unless you were teased about it at high school and someboyd made a play on words, in which case I can see why you would object. I mean why would I even make the connection unless you pointed it out. Weird..:gives:

As for being a true American I dunno. Can you be a truly a Greek and an American at the same time?

LMFAO! Ok morality boy! Just so we all know you are a vile racist now. That had to be the most illogical rant ever posted.

Yep you can be A Greek and an American at the very same fucking time, why? Because I said so.

[Grumplestillskin]

LMFAO! Ok morality boy! Just so we all know you are a vile racist now. That had to be the most illogical rant ever posted.

So now I'm a racist for using a word that means:
a stupid, obtuse, or mentally defective person.
Oookkkaaayyyy...:cuckoo:
methinks I hit close to the mark re being hassled at high school..:eek:



Yep you can be A Greek and an American at the very same fucking time, why? Because I said so.

blah, blah, blah....

[OCA]

I ABSOLUTELY FUCKING LOVE EVERY SINGLE MINUTE OF GETTING UNDER YOUR SKIN! HAHAHA!

I mean its not too hard, kind of like breaking through cheap saran wrap.

[OCA]

Oh in high school I was the man, everybody loved me especially the ladies. They loved the olive skin, European manners and charm.

I'm guessing Chump jerked off in the parking lot of the prom.

[Grumplestillskin]

I ABSOLUTELY FUCKING LOVE EVERY SINGLE MINUTE OF GETTING UNDER YOUR SKIN! HAHAHA!

I mean its not too hard, kind of like breaking through cheap saran wrap.

Huh? How is me sitting here laughing my arse off at you getting under my skin...:cheers2:

[OCA]

Huh? How is me sitting here laughing my arse off at you getting under my skin...:cheers2:

Shit Chump i'm like a big fat tick thats burrowed its way next to your liver, you know I got your number.

What you laugh at is exactly the opposite of everyone else, really its a good barometer of me lighting you up.

[Grumplestillskin]

Shit Chump i'm like a big fat tick thats burrowed its way next to your liver, you know I got your number.

What you laugh at is exactly the opposite of everyone else, really its a good barometer of me lighting you up.

Hey, I know I get under your skin, this DON'T FORGET NOT TO USE THOSE WORDS LMFAO! bizzo is a great example. After rereading how silly you were being, now you're trying to backtrack. yeah, "it was all a big joke on my part ..lol..lol..lol..lol.." says OFA..:uhoh:
I know you sooo well. If you were any more transparent you'd be a piece of glass.
Course all the girls liked you...in your dreams. You were the short kid that all the girls laughed at (not with) and patted on the head like their favourite chiwhawha...heh, heh, heh...




I LOVE FUCKING WITH YOU! OCA IS THE MAN! OCA IS THE MAN!

GRUMP IS A TROLL! NO FACTUAL BACK UP TO ANY OF HIS VIEWS! BEWARE POSTERS! TROLL ALERT!

[OCA]

Must be a slow night, I gotta resort to kicking around the less fortunate.

[Grumplestillskin]

Must be a slow night, I gotta resort to kicking around the less fortunate.

Step away from the mirror

Step.....away....from.....the.....mirror...:eek:

[OCA]

Step away from the mirror

Step.....away....from.....the.....mirror...:eek:

Come on, you can do better than this. Step it up a notch and keep up with me.

[Grumplestillskin]

Come on, you can do better than this. Step it up a notch and keep up with me.

Oh, your response was a bit different, but pretty close to what I thought you would say. I expected the :lame2: smiley! But I was pretty close...

I was gonna use that smiley in my last to you, but that woulda been too predictable eh? Ah well...

[OCA]

Oh, your response was a bit different, but pretty close to what I thought you would say. I expected the :lame2: smiley! But I was pretty close...

I was gonna use that smiley in my last to you, but that woulda been too predictable eh? Ah well...

Chump I keep wanting to debate topics with you but you don't provide any evidence to support your claims and when somebody provides evidence to support theirs you dismiss it as bullshit, so i'm left with tearing you a new asshole in a flamefest because factual debate doesn't really suit you, why is that and why can't you change?

[Grumplestillskin]

Chump I keep wanting to debate topics with you but you don't provide any evidence to support your claims and when somebody provides evidence to support theirs you dismiss it as bullshit, so i'm left with tearing you a new asshole in a flamefest because factual debate doesn't really suit you, why is that and why can't you change?

I guess because you're the man and I'm an also ran....:laugh2:

[OCA]

I guess because you're the man and I'm an also ran....:laugh2:

You're not so dumb after all.

[Grumplestillskin]

You're not so dumb after all.

Dunno...been posting with your for the past 15 minutes...can't be too bright...

[Pale Rider]

Chump I keep wanting to debate topics with you but you don't provide any evidence to support your claims and when somebody provides evidence to support theirs you dismiss it as bullshit, so i'm left with tearing you a new asshole in a flamefest because factual debate doesn't really suit you, why is that and why can't you change?

I knew you wouldn't get a decent answer to that. Why didn't you let us bet on it first? :D

[Grumplestillskin]

I knew you wouldn't get a decent answer to that. Why didn't you let us bet on it first? :D

I could give a decent answer but like all my posts to you it'd probably go straight over your head....:flameth:

[OCA]

I could give a decent answer but like all my posts to you it'd probably go straight over your head....:flameth:

No you couldn't give a decent answer so you resorted to lame one liners like this which is your M.O. on this and the old board. And you wonder why the majority think you are a troll.

[Grumplestillskin]

No you couldn't give a decent answer so you resorted to lame one liners like this which is your M.O. on this and the old board. And you wonder why the majority think you are a troll.

I've given plenty of decent answers. What do you add to the board other than empty rhetoric and an attitude? :blues: And since when did you become the majority? :gay:

[OCA]

I've given plenty of decent answers. What do you add to the board other than empty rhetoric and an attitude? :blues: And since when did you become the majority? :gay:

Link to one decent answer backed up by verifiable fact.

Yeah I guess you are the majority lol.

Empty rhetoric, I guess that makes YOU sleep better at night to think that.:suck:

[Roomy]

So now you are the word police? You got better things to do, no? I'll use cretin if I feel like it. Do what you will. I mean only a dumbass would delete a word that isn't even racist and an even dumber ass would insinuate that somebody is a racist for using a word that doesn't mean such. What do you do for an encore, decide that the word happy means smelly, or that a car is really a horse? Why you think the words are related is beyond me, unless you were teased about it at high school and someboyd made a play on words, in which case I can see why you would object. I mean why would I even make the connection unless you pointed it out. Weird..:gives:

As for being a true American I dunno. Can you be a truly a Greek and an American at the same time?


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: