Records to spell doom for the CD?

[-Cp]

VERY intersting turn of events if this happens and I could totally see something like this taking place:

http://www.bootdaily.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=855&Itemid=59

[Mr. P]

VERY intersting turn of events if this happens and I could totally see something like this taking place:

http://www.bootdaily.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=855&Itemid=59

We could go back to 8 tracks, starting fire with flint too..I don't see it happening.

[mrg666]

the quality of digital recording is far superior to vynyl
i have many many many vynyl disks i have tried to replace these with digital over the years

[-Cp]

the quality of digital recording is far superior to vynyl
i have many many many vynyl disks i have tried to replace these with digital over the years

You obviously have no clue what you're talking about....

[Jon]

You obviously have no clue what you're talking about....


First, you'll both have to give us your definition of "quality". ;)

[diuretic]

I reckon the money you'd have to pay for a top line vinyl player to get very high fidelity would be far too much to make the compact disc irrelevant.

Anyway, who cares, as long as you can play it loud!

[PostmodernProphet]

not a likely event....I was downloading some Jethro Tull on bittorrent and mentioned to my daughter I had gotten an entire album downloaded in twenty minutes....she said "what's an album?".....over 50% of the population has never touched vinyl.....

[PostmodernProphet]

You obviously have no clue what you're talking about....

Please educamate me....how could any vinyl reproduction be superior when you can access a digital copy of the master the vinyl was pressed from?

[mrg666]

Please educamate me....how could any vinyl reproduction be superior when you can access a digital copy of the master the vinyl was pressed from?

me 2

[KarlMarx]

I reckon the money you'd have to pay for a top line vinyl player to get very high fidelity would be far too much to make the compact disc irrelevant.

Anyway, who cares, as long as you can play it loud!

I agree, I can see vinyl for the audio connesseurs. I think what will kill the CD is down loadable music and movies. Thumb drives are already sporting 8 Giga bytes and coming down in price rapidly.

P.S. if you use the rule of thumb "a minute of play per megabyte", that means an 8 Gbyte thumb drive can hold roughly 8,000 minutes (about 133 hours) of music. Consider that a week is 168 hours long...

P.P.S. Think of it, I could put my entire record collection that I had as a kid on a single 2 GByte thumbdrive and take it to work with me and listen to "records" all day long while I work at my computer.

P.P.S. I agree some music was meant to be played loud (Black Sabbath, Hendrix and Ozzy) and some, not so loud (Bach's Goldberg Variations)

[Monkeybone]

ah...indie kids. that explains alot of it. they are retro into stuff, so yah among them the vinyl sales would be high and of course DJs ( Mr.lets preserve this history by scratching it).

but it won't replace the CD. i think MP3 players (ipod and the such) have a better chance of replacing the CD with all of the new CD players in cars that can do MP3 or you can plug in your Ipod/ipod equivy.

[-Cp]

Please educamate me....how could any vinyl reproduction be superior when you can access a digital copy of the master the vinyl was pressed from?

It's right in the article bud.. next time you may want to read it before commenting :)


Although CDs have a wider dynamic range, mastering houses are often encouraged to compress the audio on CDs to make it as loud as possible: It's the so-called loudness war. Since the audio on vinyl can't be compressed to such extremes, records generally offer a more nuanced sound.

Another reason for vinyl's sonic superiority is that no matter how high a sampling rate is, it can never contain all of the data present in an analog groove, Nyquist's theorem to the contrary.

"The digital world will never get there," said Chris Ashworth, owner of United Record Pressing, the country's largest record pressing plant.

Golden-eared audiophiles have long testified to vinyl's warmer, richer sound. And now demand for vinyl is on the rise. Pressing plants that were already at capacity are staying there, while others are cranking out more records than they did last year in order to keep pace with demand.

[-Cp]

From Howstuffworks.com:

Is the sound on vinyl records better than on CDs or DVDs?


The answer lies in the difference between analog and digital recordings. A vinyl record is an analog recording, and CDs and DVDs are digital recordings. Take a look at the graph below. Original sound is analog by definition. A digital recording takes snapshots of the analog signal at a certain rate (for CDs it is 44,100 times per second) and measures each snapshot with a certain accuracy (for CDs it is 16-bit, which means the value must be one of 65,536 possible values).

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/question487.gif
Comparison of a raw analog audio signal to the CD audio and DVD audio output


This means that, by definition, a digital recording is not capturing the complete sound wave. It is approximating it with a series of steps. Some sounds that have very quick transitions, such as a drum beat or a trumpet's tone, will be distorted because they change too quickly for the sample rate.

In your home stereo the CD or DVD player takes this digital recording and converts it to an analog signal, which is fed to your amplifier. The amplifier then raises the voltage of the signal to a level powerful enough to drive your speaker.

A vinyl record has a groove carved into it that mirrors the original sound's waveform. This means that no information is lost. The output of a record player is analog. It can be fed directly to your amplifier with no conversion.

This means that the waveforms from a vinyl recording can be much more accurate, and that can be heard in the richness of the sound. But there is a downside, any specks of dust or damage to the disc can be heard as noise or static. During quiet spots in songs this noise may be heard over the music. Digital recordings don't degrade over time, and if the digital recording contains silence, then there will be no noise.

From the graph above you can see that CD quality audio does not do a very good job of replicating the original signal. The main ways to improve the quality of a digital recording are to increase the sampling rate and to increase the accuracy of the sampling.

[Jon]

From Howstuffworks.com:

Is the sound on vinyl records better than on CDs or DVDs?


The answer lies in the difference between analog and digital recordings. A vinyl record is an analog recording, and CDs and DVDs are digital recordings. Take a look at the graph below. Original sound is analog by definition. A digital recording takes snapshots of the analog signal at a certain rate (for CDs it is 44,100 times per second) and measures each snapshot with a certain accuracy (for CDs it is 16-bit, which means the value must be one of 65,536 possible values).

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/question487.gif
Comparison of a raw analog audio signal to the CD audio and DVD audio output


This means that, by definition, a digital recording is not capturing the complete sound wave. It is approximating it with a series of steps. Some sounds that have very quick transitions, such as a drum beat or a trumpet's tone, will be distorted because they change too quickly for the sample rate.

In your home stereo the CD or DVD player takes this digital recording and converts it to an analog signal, which is fed to your amplifier. The amplifier then raises the voltage of the signal to a level powerful enough to drive your speaker.

A vinyl record has a groove carved into it that mirrors the original sound's waveform. This means that no information is lost. The output of a record player is analog. It can be fed directly to your amplifier with no conversion.

This means that the waveforms from a vinyl recording can be much more accurate, and that can be heard in the richness of the sound. But there is a downside, any specks of dust or damage to the disc can be heard as noise or static. During quiet spots in songs this noise may be heard over the music. Digital recordings don't degrade over time, and if the digital recording contains silence, then there will be no noise.

From the graph above you can see that CD quality audio does not do a very good job of replicating the original signal. The main ways to improve the quality of a digital recording are to increase the sampling rate and to increase the accuracy of the sampling.


Unfortunately, what is written above is largely a moot point. There are few, if any, recordings being made today that aren't recorded and/or mastered and/or processed and/or etc. digitally before being put on vinyl or CD.

IOW, pretty much all of it has been compromised at one stage or another.

[Mr. P]

Unfortunately, what is written above is largely a moot point. There are few, if any, recordings being made today that aren't recorded and/or mastered and/or processed and/or etc. digitally before being put on vinyl or CD.

IOW, pretty much all of it has been compromised at one stage or another.

And I'll bet 1000 cyber bucks you can't get 10 people out of 1000 that could listen to a recording in a sound both, and be able to say...it's vinyl or CD.

[-Cp]

Unfortunately, what is written above is largely a moot point. There are few, if any, recordings being made today that aren't recorded and/or mastered and/or processed and/or etc. digitally before being put on vinyl or CD.

IOW, pretty much all of it has been compromised at one stage or another.

Actually - only recordings going to CD are mastered Digitally - they have to be in order to go to CD... .

Records are mastered analog....

You'd also be surprised to know that many recordings and mixes are still done using analog - the reason is that it sounds better...

[-Cp]

And I'll bet 1000 cyber bucks you can't get 10 people out of 1000 that could listen to a recording in a sound both, and be able to say...it's vinyl or CD.

And I bet 1000 cyber bucks you've never heard a clean record on a high-end audio system (High end means that technics rack system you bought at the local dept store doesn't count)... :P

[Pale Rider]

From Howstuffworks.com:

Is the sound on vinyl records better than on CDs or DVDs?


The answer lies in the difference between analog and digital recordings. A vinyl record is an analog recording, and CDs and DVDs are digital recordings. Take a look at the graph below. Original sound is analog by definition. A digital recording takes snapshots of the analog signal at a certain rate (for CDs it is 44,100 times per second) and measures each snapshot with a certain accuracy (for CDs it is 16-bit, which means the value must be one of 65,536 possible values).

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/question487.gif
Comparison of a raw analog audio signal to the CD audio and DVD audio output


This means that, by definition, a digital recording is not capturing the complete sound wave. It is approximating it with a series of steps. Some sounds that have very quick transitions, such as a drum beat or a trumpet's tone, will be distorted because they change too quickly for the sample rate.

In your home stereo the CD or DVD player takes this digital recording and converts it to an analog signal, which is fed to your amplifier. The amplifier then raises the voltage of the signal to a level powerful enough to drive your speaker.

A vinyl record has a groove carved into it that mirrors the original sound's waveform. This means that no information is lost. The output of a record player is analog. It can be fed directly to your amplifier with no conversion.

This means that the waveforms from a vinyl recording can be much more accurate, and that can be heard in the richness of the sound. But there is a downside, any specks of dust or damage to the disc can be heard as noise or static. During quiet spots in songs this noise may be heard over the music. Digital recordings don't degrade over time, and if the digital recording contains silence, then there will be no noise.

From the graph above you can see that CD quality audio does not do a very good job of replicating the original signal. The main ways to improve the quality of a digital recording are to increase the sampling rate and to increase the accuracy of the sampling.

Unfortunately, the above graph has no reference as to what the sine waves represent. My guess is they represent such a minuscule change in frequency, that the human ear couldn't hear it anyway. I doubt they're completely accurate in representation either. If a whole song was displayed, you'd find that the sampling rate of most store bought CD's would be almost perfect. So perfect in fact, that there is no way the human ear could distinguish analog from digital, other than the popping and hissing you hear when playing vinyl. No thanks.

And there's no way vinyl will ever out sell CD's. I have over 200 CD's I've downloaded and burnt. They fit nicely in a carrying case made for them that I can take with me in the car, truck, garage, and back in the house. And I'm going to replace that with 200 old vinyl LP's? Yeah right.

[-Cp]

Unfortunately, the above graph has no reference as to what the sine waves represent. My guess is they represent such a minuscule change in frequency, that the human ear couldn't hear it anyway. If a whole song was displayed, you'd find that the sampling rate of most store bought CD's would be almost perfect. So perfect in fact, that there is no way the human ear could distinguish analog from digital, other than the popping and hissing you hear when playing vinyl. No thanks.

And there's no way vinyl will ever out sell CD's. I have over 200 CD's I've downloaded and burnt. They fit nicely in a carrying case made for them that I can take with me in the car, truck, garage, and back in the house. And I'm going to replace that with 200 old vinyl LP's? Yeah right.

And unfortunately, you don't know how to read graphs - if you LOOK - it shows the original soundwave being a 10k wave.... the digital variants fall and rise drastically from the original sound wave.

You're response is based on a lot of assumptions and quite frankly, ignorance...

Outside of that you're still a cool conservative who may want to stick with politics and not audio discussions.. :P

[Pale Rider]

And unfortunately, you don't know how to read graphs - if you LOOK - it shows the original soundwave being a 10k wave.... the digital variants fall and rise drastically from the original sound wave.

You're response is based on a lot of assumptions and quite frankly, ignorance...

Outside of that you're still a cool conservative who may want to stick with politics and not audio discussions.. :P

Well fucking SORRY for getting into your discussion -Cp. I sure the fuck don't want to spread anymore of my IGNORANCE in here, so I'll just shut the fuck up.

Christ man... just fucking kill me... :chillpill:

[Jon]

Actually - only recordings going to CD are mastered Digitally - they have to be in order to go to CD... .

Records are mastered analog....

You'd also be surprised to know that many recordings and mixes are still done using analog - the reason is that it sounds better...


You're wrong. Recordings that go to CD and Vinyl can be, and many times are, mastered digitally.

I well aware that *some* recordings are still mastered using analog processes. However, there are exceedingly few studios that manage to keep the entire signal chain in the analog realm throughout the entire process.

Any part of the signal chain in the process that converts from analog to digital and back will introduce the "problems" you've alluded to in your previous posts.

[-Cp]

Well fucking SORRY for getting into your discussion -Cp. I sure the fuck don't want to spread anymore of my IGNORANCE in here, so I'll just shut the fuck up.

Christ man... just fucking kill me... :chillpill:

Wow......

Someone fall off their "meds" again? :P

[Pale Rider]

Wow......

Someone fall off their "meds" again? :P

First you insult my intelligence then you call me ignorant, and now you're all surprized at my response? C'mon -Cp, don't play games with me man. Hell... you're in my friends list.

Go back and reread what I said, and then look at this. You'll see that I was spot on. I have a degree in this, and I know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm a huge audiofile, and I know this shit front to back. It would appear YOU are the one that doesn't quite understand how this all works.

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8416/dagr1.jpg

[Mr. P]

And I bet 1000 cyber bucks you've never heard a clean record on a high-end audio system (High end means that technics rack system you bought at the local dept store doesn't count)... :P

I'll take that bet and raise ya 1000. Does a professional studio hearing the original recording work for you as far as 'high-end' audio? Been there done that, and I'm here to tell you that 'YOU' can't tell the difference between that and a CD.

I'll check the mail for my check. :laugh2:

[glockmail]

I recall back in the glory days of vinyl- the late 1960's, that the "true audiophiles" would glorify the reel to reel tape. That would be analog/ magnetic, which was always the source of the analog/ mechanical recording.

[PostmodernProphet]

as everyone knows the future of all recorded music is limited....the true audiophile will settle for nothing less than having a professional sound studio in his basement, where all music is played live....

[Guernicaa]

not a likely event....I was downloading some Jethro Tull on bittorrent and mentioned to my daughter I had gotten an entire album downloaded in twenty minutes....she said "what's an album?".....over 50% of the population has never touched vinyl.....
Thats sort of weird, I don't believe the word "album" has disappeared from modern vocabulary at all. Everyone uses the word "album", they just mean "the entire CD".
Maybe you imagined this incident?

[jackass]

Thats sort of weird, I don't believe the word "album" has disappeared from modern vocabulary at all. Everyone uses the word "album", they just mean "the entire CD".
Maybe you imagined this incident?

I never hear of it refered to as an album anymore. Most people call it a cd. I dont know why you would thin khe imagined the incident.

[-Cp]

I'll take that bet and raise ya 1000. Does a professional studio hearing the original recording work for you as far as 'high-end' audio? Been there done that, and I'm here to tell you that 'YOU' can't tell the difference between that and a CD.

I'll check the mail for my check. :laugh2:

Nope.. a recording studio doesn't apply as a "high-end" audio system for playback... For recording, sure, but playback is an entirely different animal and I'm sorry, but the studio monitor's don't even come close in comparing to the likes of today's high-end home audio speakers.

And I CAN hear the difference - please don't tell me what I can and can't hear.. :)

I have a background in the audio business and have mixed live audio for years.

[-Cp]

I recall back in the glory days of vinyl- the late 1960's, that the "true audiophiles" would glorify the reel to reel tape. That would be analog/ magnetic, which was always the source of the analog/ mechanical recording.

Yup.. those old reel to reel machines had incredible sound quality...

[Mr. P]

Nope.. a recording studio doesn't apply as a "high-end" audio system for playback... For recording, sure, but playback is an entirely different animal and I'm sorry, but the studio monitor's don't even come close in comparing to the likes of today's high-end home audio speakers.

And I CAN hear the difference - please don't tell me what I can and can't hear.. :)

I have a background in the audio business and have mixed live audio for years.

:laugh2: You must work with some very low end stuff, but good for you...John q public can't tell any difference, and I seriously doubt you can either.:poke:

[glockmail]

Yup.. those old reel to reel machines had incredible sound quality... Its the analog that does it. Its the only way to accurately reproduce an analog wave.

But for my tin ear and bargain-brand electronics, CDs are alrighty.

[-Cp]

Its the analog that does it. Its the only way to accurately reproduce an analog wave.

But for my tin ear and bargain-brand electronics, CDs are alrighty.

Yup.. you nailed it on the head!

Analog is superior for true-to-life sound quality, however, Digital's advantage is consumer ease-of-use and it "sounds good enough"...

[glockmail]

Yup.. you nailed it on the head!

Analog is superior for true-to-life sound quality, however, Digital's advantage is consumer ease-of-use and it "sounds good enough"... ...ergo the popularity of MP3. Its only a matter of time that CDs will go the way of SD cards, or something similar.

[manu1959]

well....it is all what you play it on and the quaility of the vinyl pressing.....

i have returned to vinyl (still have my original collection 1000+ albums) .....

i have a wilson benesch turntable.....BAT tube amps and pre amp ..... and wilson benesch speakers.....i also have an aeroaudio cd player....

i have played quality CD's and remasted virgin vinyl side by side ....vinyl sounds warmer and has a broader sound stage.....cds sound bright and narrow....even some of my old albums...talking heads 77 sounds better than a brand new CD

here is where i buy all my new vinyl
http://www.musicdirect.com/

here is a rater esoteric website re: equipment...
http://www.6moons.com/

[manu1959]

Unfortunately, what is written above is largely a moot point. There are few, if any, recordings being made today that aren't recorded and/or mastered and/or processed and/or etc. digitally before being put on vinyl or CD.

IOW, pretty much all of it has been compromised at one stage or another.

not true .... in japan they are using the original analog tapes and analog equipment and recutting brand new analog albums ....

[Pale Rider]

well....it is all what you play it on and the quaility of the vinyl pressing.....

i have returned to vinyl (still have my original collection 1000+ albums) .....

i have a wilson benesch turntable.....BAT tube amps and pre amp ..... and wilson benesch speakers.....i also have an aeroaudio cd player....

i have played quality CD's and remasted virgin vinyl side by side ....vinyl sounds warmer and has a broader sound stage.....cds sound bright and narrow....even some of my old albums...talking heads 77 sounds better than a brand new CD

here is where i buy all my new vinyl
http://www.musicdirect.com/

here is a rater esoteric website re: equipment...
http://www.6moons.com/

So, what do you do about the popping and hissing of vinyl? I seem to remember old pop and hiss components you could add into your system. Didn't ADC make one?

And really, if an analog recording is digitally sampled at a high enough bit rate, there isn't a human alive that could tell them apart. (In my opinion. You may believe you can. OK.) The human ear simply does not have the tonal capacity.

[manu1959]

So, what do you do about the popping and hissing of vinyl? I seem to remember old pop and hiss components you could add into your system. Didn't ADC make one?

And really, if an analog recording is digitally sampled at a high enough bit rate, there isn't a human alive that could tell them apart. (In my opinion. You may believe you can. OK.) The human ear simply does not have the tonal capacity.

there is no pop and hiss on the new stuff and on the old stuff i took care of....bad recordings sound like shit......and some stuff you can't get.....but a high end tube system and a remastered piece of vinyl is about as good as it gets.....the problem is the system to play it on costs a fortune.....

vinyl sounds warm.....cds sound bright.....to me.....i have done blind tests with people....some like the cds and some like the vinyl ...... it is like arguing about what the best anything is.....

next time you are in the bay area drop by and hear it for yourself......

[Pale Rider]

there is no pop and hiss on the new stuff and on the old stuff i took care of....bad recordings sound like shit......and some stuff you can't get.....but a high end tube system and a remastered piece of vinyl is about as good as it gets.....the problem is the system to play it on costs a fortune.....

vinyl sounds warm.....cds sound bright.....to me.....i have done blind tests with people....some like the cds and some like the vinyl ...... it is like arguing about what the best anything is.....

next time you are in the bay area drop by and hear it for yourself......

I'll have to admit, after this debate, I'm just a little more than curious to hear a "new" cut vinyl record. I'm always open to change, if it's for the better. Funny, I was looking at turn tables on ebay just last week. I have old, old records of my mother who used to sing opera, and I've always wanted to, excuse me but, "digitally remaster" them, using something like Waves Restoration Bundle.

The big difference between tube amps and transistor amps is, tube amps run much higher voltage and current, which yes, can be very good, but the transistors are cleaner.

[manu1959]

I'll have to admit, after this debate, I'm just a little more than curious to hear a "new" cut vinyl record. I'm always open to change, if it's for the better. Funny, I was looking at turn tables on ebay just last week. I have old, old records of my mother who used to sing opera, and I've always wanted to, excuse me but, "digitally remaster" them, using something like Waves Restoration Bundle.

The big difference between tube amps and transistor amps is, tube amps run much higher voltage and current, which yes, can be very good, but the transistors are cleaner.

funny you should bring up tube vs transistor ..... when i bought my new system i listen to tube amps vs transistor and to my ear ..... tubes are light years ahead of transistor .... if you like a bright clean CD sound then transistor and CDs are a no brainer.....but tubes and vinyl and sinatra or jazz or led zep....is brilliant....

[Pale Rider]

funny you should bring up tube vs transistor ..... when i bought my new system i listen to tube amps vs transistor and to my ear ..... tubes are light years ahead of transistor .... if you like a bright clean CD sound then transistor and CDs are a no brainer.....but tubes and vinyl and sinatra or jazz or led zep....is brilliant....

Just when I'm pretty well satisfied with my system, and I think it sounds great... :rolleyes:

I've been looking forward to the new, cheaper in price, batch of high definition CD/DVD players. My TV is 1080P, I've had it for six months, and I still haven't seen anything on it in 1080P yet. So, I've heard that the high def discs will hold volumes more information on them compared to regular DVD's, and that includes music DVD's. So before I go blowing a load of money on turn tables and vinyl, I do believe I'll go high def. I just bought the new Pioneer VSX-1017TXV, 140W RMS x 7.1 channels and THX Select2 certified. I'm real happy with the power and the sound, but the jury is still out on the controls. If I decide I don't like that, I'll either go back to Sony ES, or try a Denon.

[manu1959]

Just when I'm pretty well satisfied with my system, and I think it sounds great... :rolleyes:

I've been looking forward to the new, cheaper in price, batch of high definition CD/DVD players. My TV is 1080P, I've had it for six months, and I still haven't seen anything on it in 1080P yet. So, I've heard that the high def discs will hold volumes more information on them compared to regular DVD's, and that includes music DVD's. So before I go blowing a load of money on turn tables and vinyl, I do believe I'll go high def. I just bought the new Pioneer VSX-1017TXV, 140W RMS x 7.1 channels and THX Select2 certified. I'm real happy with the power and the sound, but the jury is still out on the controls. If I decide I don't like that, I'll either go back to Sony ES, or try a Denon.

don't get me wrong i love cds....some music you can't get on vinyl....i have an audio aero cd player.....sounds amazing through my tube system.....a good buddy of mine prefers transistors....speakers are like wine or beer.....

you should check out the esoteric cd players.......http://www.musicdirect.com/product/73482

[Pale Rider]

don't get me wrong i love cds....some music you can't get on vinyl....i have an audio aero cd player.....sounds amazing through my tube system.....a good buddy of mine prefers transistors....speakers are like wine or beer.....

you should check out the esoteric cd players.......http://www.musicdirect.com/product/73482

When I think that I've easily got $6K+ tied up in my home theater already, don't show me stuff like that manu. I'm trying to hold it down as is... :D I live in an apartment. I didn't buy a house when I moved here because I didn't know how long I'd be staying, and I'm glad I didn't because I'm working on moving as we speak. But I've got enough power and speakers to piss people off three buildings away, or maybe it was my sons singing, or mine, naaaaahh, not mine. I sound like Elvis... :cheers2:

I'm listening to Choiceradio.com, Internet radio, Native America broadcast at 100K right now, and I think it sounds good. I love the music.

[Mr. P]

When I think that I've easily got $6K+ tied up in my home theater already, don't show me stuff like that manu. I'm trying to hold it down as is... :D I live in an apartment. I didn't buy a house when I moved here because I didn't know how long I'd be staying, and I'm glad I didn't because I'm working on moving as we speak. But I've got enough power and speakers to piss people off three buildings away, or maybe it was my sons singing, or mine, naaaaahh, not mine. I sound like Elvis... :cheers2:

I'm listening to Choiceradio.com, Internet radio, Native America broadcast at 100K right now, and I think it sounds good. I love the music.

Speaking of Elvis...I heard today he has made $49 million so far this year ...WOW.

[Pale Rider]

Speaking of Elvis...I heard today he has made $49 million so far this year ...WOW.

I heard that too. The story was that dead entertainers have made $238 million dollars so far this year. Crazy.