What Was He Thinking, (Some Blood, Use Your Discretion)

[Pale Rider]

In my opinion, this is a prime example of too much bike and not enough experience. A young life tragically ended just being stupid. Even riding around here, I see a group of these guys come barreling up behind me on my Harley in my mirror riding on twisty little roads like up to Virginia City or Lake Tahoe. They find a tiny little opening and they all scream past like total imbeciles, and it's been more than once I've road past them a little ways further up the road where one of them is splattered all over the road.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2202/1762957822_82a08c33fe_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2340/1762107913_bba96b2aed_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2150/1762108939_eda9501445_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2114/1762959848_0f88d5f618_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2406/1762960378_a2381240db_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2349/1762960754_e7672b9c02_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2288/1762961134_8a2eb982d0_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2116/1762111075_98d5e06f86_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2336/1762111579_177f33e3e7_o.jpg

[mrg666]

a couple of years ago i had a count of the friends and associates that have died ( on bikes )since i was 16 ..........
its at 22 at the moment 22 in 29 years
two friends in car crashes in more years
says it all

[dan]

Sucks for him. Shouldn't have been driving like a dumbass. No sympathy here.

[glockmail]

As you know I rode for years without incident. Due to their handling they would be safest vehicles on the road, if not for two issues: other vehicles and operator error. This young man obviously had no control over himself (the operator).

The broken neck probably killed him instantly. At least he didn't use up hospital resources in his quest to kill himself.

[mrg666]

As you know I rode for years without incident. Due to their handling they would be safest vehicles on the road, if not for two issues: other vehicles and operator error. This young man obviously had no control over himself (the operator).

The broken neck probably killed him instantly. At least he didn't use up hospital resources in his quest to kill himself.

bikes are very fast now as opposed to when i was a rider

[dan]

Yeah, hopefully my first thread didn't come as a knock against bikers in general, that wasn't the point at all. I'm sure Pale, Glock, and mrg are all great riders because, well, they're smart. They use their head for something other than opening the back of a Yellow truck. I totally agree with glock, a bike is pretty much just as safe as any other vehicle, if not for user error.

[darin]

That's no way to get a HEAD in life...

He'll never be the HEAD of a major organization...

It's very misleading to say bikes' handling makes them safe. Having two less-than-credit-card size patches of rubber on the ground isn't very good considering the power applied. My RX8 handles better than a lot of bikes. Not nearly as nimble, of course. :)

[Pale Rider]

a couple of years ago i had a count of the friends and associates that have died ( on bikes )since i was 16 ..........
its at 22 at the moment 22 in 29 years
two friends in car crashes in more years
says it all

Damn... I'm 52 and I've been riding since I was nine. Not one of my friends that I've ridden with have ever died in a crash. But 99% of them ride Harley's, and traveling at the speed of light isn't what you do on a Harley. You cruise, and pay attention to what's going on around you.

They guy in the pictures was obviously riding FAR past his abilities, as it seems most sport bike riders do.

[glockmail]

bikes are very fast now as opposed to when i was a rider Increased power, better suspension and brakes only serve to increase safety of a responsible rider. I think the point that you are making is that the increased power makes it easier for the fool to get himself killed, and I agree with that as well.

It's analogous to a sharp knife.

[darin]

They guy in the pictures was obviously riding FAR past his abilities, as it seems most sport bike riders do.


That's a very misleading statement. If that were true, 'most' sport bike riders would be dead.

I'd say the sport bike riders I know are better - MUCH better riders than the average cruiser rider simply for the fact they push it farther.

This isn't an us (sport bike riders) vs them (Cruisers) - we are all part of a brotherhood. Having a preference for one or the other doesn't indicate wisdom. It's just a simple fact most young guys want a sport bike. Most older guys want a cruiser. Older = wiser (generally). Older = less prone to take chances. Young riders = Wanna do cool shit. Old Riders = just want to 'not-die' while doing something they love.

:)

:beer: Ride safe.

[mrg666]

a good friend recently was riding his ninja (at speed ) and a car pulled out on him he thought he was a gonner since recieving his insurance payment he got rid of it
i think because that speed is there the power (sports ) riders use it thats why i would never have a high performance car thats my opinion i see them flying by me reguarly (bikes and cars ) i do a lot of motorway travel (freeway )

[glockmail]

Guys die on Harleys, and they also die on sport bikes. Mine was a sport bike, albeit prior to the full race position popular since the late 80's. I also think that Pales right, that most guys die on sport bikes. I'm sure someone can find stats to prove that. The lack of maturity is obviously the main factor.

I do think that the full race position is inherently dangerous. Sitting tall in the saddle allows you to see more, and reduces fatigue.

[darin]

I do think that the full race position is inherently dangerous. Sitting tall in the saddle allows you to see more, and reduces fatigue.

"see more" of what? I NEVER had a problem seeing ANYTHING while riding my sport bike.

To combat fatigue, we'd stop every 90-minutes/2 hours to get off the bike and socialize. :D

...when you're in 'race position' you're actually not ON the bike, but hanging off it :)

Keeping close to the tank provides MUCH BETTER handling - lower center of gravity.

[mrg666]

2,284 motorcyclists died and approximately 49,000 were injured in highway crashes in the United States.
Per mile traveled in 1998, a motorcyclist is approximately 16 times more likely to die in a crash than an automobile occupant. And 3x (times) as likely to be injured.
Head injury is a leading cause of death in motorcycle crashes.
In 1998, 46% of fatally injured motorcycle drivers were not wearing helmets at the time of the crash.
NHTSA estimates that motorcycle helmets reduce the likelihood of a fatality by 29% in a crash.
In 1998, 41% of all motorcycle drivers involved in fatal crashes were speeding.
Nearly one out of five motorcycle drivers (18%) involved in fatal crashes in 1998 was operating with an invalid license at the time of the collision.
Motorcycle drivers involved in fatal crashes in 1998 had higher intoxication rates than any other type of motor vehicle driver at 31%.
In 1998, 500 motorcyclists lives were saved due to helmet usage; 307 could have been saved.


http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-Safety/crash.htm
http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-Safety/809-360.pdf

the relevance is in the url's

[Pale Rider]

That's a very misleading statement. If that were true, 'most' sport bike riders would be dead.

I'd say the sport bike riders I know are better - MUCH better riders than the average cruiser rider simply for the fact they push it farther.

This isn't an us (sport bike riders) vs them (Cruisers) - we are all part of a brotherhood. Having a preference for one or the other doesn't indicate wisdom. It's just a simple fact most young guys want a sport bike. Most older guys want a cruiser. Older = wiser (generally). Older = less prone to take chances. Young riders = Wanna do cool shit. Old Riders = just want to 'not-die' while doing something they love.

:)

:beer: Ride safe.

And I didn't intend anything I said to be "sport vs cruiser" either. It's just my experience, and I've had considerable, that the majority of sport bike riders I encounter when riding are always riding like complete morons. It's no wonder they're involved in the vast majority of crashes, and deaths. I've had these little idiots scream past me IN MY LANE doing at LEAST a buck plus. It makes me want to chase them down and kick their ass. The moron with his head embedded in the back of that semi trailer is simple testament to how dumb these guys are on a bike.

And I agree it probably has something to do with age. Young and inexperienced = dumb rider. Old and experienced = intelligent rider. That's why I started my riding life on a Honda Sport 90. It might have done 60 mph down a hill. Not a 1100 Kawasaki Ninja that would do 180+.

[darin]

Not a 1100 Kawasaki Ninja that would do 180+.


fwiw, a 998cc Ninja can do 192. :D

The ZX14? No idea. Prolly close to two-bills.

:D

My tiny 636cc would max out about $1.60.

[glockmail]

"see more" of what? I NEVER had a problem seeing ANYTHING while riding my sport bike.

To combat fatigue, we'd stop every 90-minutes/2 hours to get off the bike and socialize. :D

...when you're in 'race position' you're actually not ON the bike, but hanging off it :)

Keeping close to the tank provides MUCH BETTER handling - lower center of gravity.

Its just common sense that when you have your head nearly horizontal (without craning your neck) you are going to get more fatigued. Its also common sense that the higher your eye position is the father you can see.

[darin]

Its just common sense that when you have your head nearly horizontal (without craning your neck) you are going to get more fatigued. Its also common sense that the higher your eye position is the father you can see.

That's not common-sense, that's silly. You've never ridden a modern sport-bike for more than 10 minutes if you think like that.

What about the fact sport-bikes are generally HIGHER than cruisers? Even IF some guy was to ride all hugging the tank (which is only about 5% of riding), their eyes are still higher than some guy sitting on a big and low cruiser.


You're speculating and assuming things here. I've enjoyed riding both styles - and I'm TRYING to keep this discussion intellectually and practically honest.

[glockmail]

That's not common-sense, that's silly. You've never ridden a modern sport-bike for more than 10 minutes if you think like that.

What about the fact sport-bikes are generally HIGHER than cruisers? Even IF some guy was to ride all hugging the tank (which is only about 5% of riding), their eyes are still higher than some guy sitting on a big and low cruiser.


You're speculating and assuming things here. I've enjoyed riding both styles - and I'm TRYING to keep this discussion intellectually and practically honest.

I've never riden a modern sport bike. Nor have I riden a cruiser. Mine was a "traditional" design, with a high sadlle and an upright seating position. As defined by the US Army (https://crc.army.mil/drivingpov/mcycle_guide.doc):


• Touring. This is the best choice for long trips because of its comfort and its carrying capacity. The touring bike is often equipped with saddlebags or trunks on either side of the back fender, a windshield, and a dashboard.
• Cruiser. The cruiser has swept back handlebars, a low seat and forward foot pegs.
• Sport. A sport bike has short handlebars and foot pegs below the seat, so the rider has to lean over the tank to operate the motorcycle. This posture is good for executing turns, but puts strain on the lower back so isn’t comfortable during long trips.
• Traditional. The most versatile and best for daily transportation. The traditional motorcycle is also comfortable enough for long-distance riding.
• Off-Highway. If you want a motorcycle for trail rides or off-road racing, you can choose from motocross or off-road styles. Motocross bikes are built for closed-course racing only. Off-road motorcycles will allow you to explore wooded trails, desert, or hilly terrains.
• Dual-Purpose. These street-legal dirt bikes are equipped with specialized tires that are good for riding both on and off the pavement. They are equipped with legally required street equipment, including mirrors, turn signals, speedometers, and lights.

[darin]

I've never riden a modern sport bike. Nor have I riden a cruiser. Mine was a "traditional" design, with a high sadlle and an upright seating position. As defined by the US Army (https://crc.army.mil/drivingpov/mcycle_guide.doc):

thank you for sharing that - but I'm not sure of your point.

[glockmail]

thank you for sharing that - but I'm not sure of your point.
My point was that the traditional design sets your head up high for good visibility, and is therefore safer than a crotch rocket.

[darin]

My point was that the traditional design sets your head up high for good visibility, and is therefore safer than a crotch rocket.

except that doesn't make sense, because most riding on a sport bike is heads-up, and even HIGHER than that of a cruiser.

The only folk who lay down and get their neck crooked are posers. In fact, I kept my head up (no sex jokes, please) even when leaning OFF The bike. :)

[glockmail]

WTF? You delete posts now? That's fucked up.

[Pale Rider]

a good friend recently was riding his ninja (at speed ) and a car pulled out on him he thought he was a gonner since recieving his insurance payment he got rid of it
i think because that speed is there the power (sports ) riders use it thats why i would never have a high performance car thats my opinion i see them flying by me reguarly (bikes and cars ) i do a lot of motorway travel (freeway )

And here's what happened to my Harley back in April, when a dumb ass ran a red light and turned in front of traffic, including me and another bike rider. Unfortunately I was in the right lane on the right side. Last one for this asshole to clear. Thing is he didn't. I T-boned him. Seven thousand dollars worth of damage. The bike has been repaired though, and I'll be damned if I'll quite riding just because of one moron.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2189/1764531626_04542de17c_o.jpg

[darin]

WTF? You delete posts now? That's fucked up.

Removed from Thread - that is NOT how to address any concerns you have...fwiw, not that you can read this, but there are NO deleted posts in this thread.

[Pale Rider]

"see more" of what? I NEVER had a problem seeing ANYTHING while riding my sport bike.

To combat fatigue, we'd stop every 90-minutes/2 hours to get off the bike and socialize. :D

...when you're in 'race position' you're actually not ON the bike, but hanging off it :)

Keeping close to the tank provides MUCH BETTER handling - lower center of gravity.

I'll tell ya D, I've ridden quite a few sport bikes, last one was a Hayabusa, and a chick owned it. Fifteen minutes on that thing and my "palms" were sore. The bent over with all your weight resting on your hands position not only made my palms hurt, but it made my neck hurt also from having to look up all the time. That's not to say I don't like sport bikes or riding them though. They're fun as hell, but just for blasting around for a short time on. (For me.)

I can ride my Harley for hours and never get sore. Well, maybe my butt cheeks a little, but that's it. Sitting on my Harley is like sitting in a big, comfortable recliner chair.


fwiw, a 998cc Ninja can do 192. :D

The ZX14? No idea. Prolly close to two-bills.

:D

My tiny 636cc would max out about $1.60.

I almost bought a big, red ZX-14. It was sold already. Yeah I think they do 2+.


What about the fact sport-bikes are generally HIGHER than cruisers? Even IF some guy was to ride all hugging the tank (which is only about 5% of riding), their eyes are still higher than some guy sitting on a big and low cruiser.

Very true. I was going to point that out myself.

[darin]

I was sore on my bike the first couple of times I rode it. After that, my body got used to it...I could do a couple hours at a time w/o trouble - and my bike was the most uncomfy 600 i'd ridden at the time. :)

I sat on a busa and thought "HOLY GOD this is comfortable!!"

:D

[Pale Rider]

I was sore on my bike the first couple of times I rode it. After that, my body got used to it...I could do a couple hours at a time w/o trouble - and my bike was the most uncomfy 600 i'd ridden at the time. :)

I sat on a busa and thought "HOLY GOD this is comfortable!!"

:D

When I sat on the ZX-14, I thought the same thing. "Big and comfy."

When they told me it was only $11,400 out the door, that's when I mentioned buying it, and that's when they told me it was sold, to the same guy who had bought a silver one earlier, wrecked it, and came back and bought that one.

I paid $18,800 out the door for my Harley.

Oh... and thanks for the edit.

[diuretic]

Reminds me of that saying, "there are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots."