D.o.g.e.

[SassyLady]

Department Of Goverment Efficiency
Headed up by Elon and Vivek

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/elon-musk-vivek-ramaswamy-lead-trumps-department-government-efficiency

[NightTrain]

Department Of Goverment Efficiency
Headed up by Elon and Vivek

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/elon-musk-vivek-ramaswamy-lead-trumps-department-government-efficiency


Can't wait to see these two get to work. I can already hear the howls of outrage from the libs.

[SassyLady]

Can't wait to see these two get to work. I can already hear the howls of outrage from the libs.

And this special task force is scheduled to be over and done with by 7/4/26 for the 250th celebration of America.

[revelarts]

Department Of Goverment Efficiency
Headed up by Elon and Vivek

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/elon-musk-vivek-ramaswamy-lead-trumps-department-government-efficiency


Of course i love the Idea of reducing the gov't.
But I will make one negative point here, sorry but,
This should be a COMMISSION/PROJECT or something not a NEW Department.
Not sure why you create a NEW department if your goal is to reduce the size of gov't.

[SassyLady]

Of course i love the Idea of reducing the gov't.
But I will make one negative point here, sorry but,
This should be a COMMISSION/PROJECT or something not a NEW Department.
Not sure why you create a NEW department if your goal is to reduce the size of gov't.
It will be short lived. Completion end date is 7/4/2026. They want it completed before the 250th celebration.

[NightTrain]

Of course i love the Idea of reducing the gov't.
But I will make one negative point here, sorry but,
This should be a COMMISSION/PROJECT or something not a NEW Department.
Not sure why you create a NEW department if your goal is to reduce the size of gov't.


As I understand it, like Sassy says, it's a temp agency to nuke/reform the other ones, and scheduled to disband in 2 years.

[fj1200]

Famous last words but I expect Musk to get bored far before then. Vivek I can see hanging around for the limelight.

[SassyLady]

Famous last words but I expect Musk to get bored far before then. Vivek I can see hanging around for the limelight.

He doesn't seem to be too bored with Tesla, Star Link, SpaceX ... etc.

I think he's going to enjoy the hell out of finding efficiencies.

[Gunny]

Yep. Let's cut down government by adding another agency, Makes perfect fucking sense:rolleyes:

On the bright side, he had to. Have to reward the asskissers somehow without letting them touch anything important.

[SassyLady]

Yep. Let's cut down government by adding another agency, Makes perfect fucking sense:rolleyes:

On the bright side, he had to. Have to reward the asskissers somehow without letting them touch anything important.

Not adding an agency.


It will become, potentially, “The Manhattan Project” of our time. Republican politicians have dreamed about the objectivies of “DOGE” for a very long time. To drive this kind of drastic change, the Department of Government Efficiency will provide advice and guidance from outside of Governnment, and will partner with the White House and Office of Management & Budget to drive large scale structural reform, and create an entrepreneurial approach to Government never seen before.

I look forward to Elon and Vivek making changes to the Federal Bureaucracy with an eye on efficiency and, at the same time, making life better for all Americans. Importantly, we will drive out the massive waste and fraud which exists throughout our annual $6.5 Trillion Dollars of Government Spending. They will work together to liberate our Economy, and make the U.S. Government accountable to “WE THE PEOPLE.” Their work will conclude no later than July 4, 2026 – A small Government, with more efficiency and less bureaucracy, will be the perfect gift to America on the 250th Anniversary of The Declaration of Independence. I am confident they will succeed!

[Gunny]

Not adding an agency.

Really. That bullshit and you know it. "Department of ...". Musk and Ramaswamy solo, at large. Can't be solo though, since it's taking two of them. Sure off to a good start cutting unnecessary jobs:rolleyes:

[SassyLady]

Really. That bullshit and you know it. Musk and Ramaswamy solo, at large. Can't be solo though, since it's taking two of them. Sure off to a good start cutting unnecessary jobs:rolleyes:
They aren't being paid anything. They are not working for the governed. You need to do a little more research rather than just jumping on your anti Trump pessimistic wagon.

[Gunny]

They aren't being paid anything. They are not working for the governed. You need to do a little more research rather than just jumping on your anti Trump pessimistic wagon.

Seriously. They aren't working for the government. Just a newly formed department of government under the Executive Branch. You sound like a Democrat. "That might look, feel and smell like dogshit, but it isn't dogshit:rolleyes:

The People gave Trump a second chance and he's fucking it up with his cronies.

[SassyLady]

Seriously. They aren't working for the government. Just a newly formed department of government under the Executive Branch. You sound like a Democrat. "That might look, feel and smell like dogshit, but it isn't dogshit:rolleyes:

The People gave Trump a second chance and he's fucking it up with his cronies.
They are on a commission. Not government employees. Seriously.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksaul/2024/11/13/what-we-know-about-elon-musks-department-of-government-efficiency/

[Gunny]

They are on a commission. Not government employees. Seriously.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksaul/2024/11/13/what-we-know-about-elon-musks-department-of-government-efficiency/


Donald Trump tapped (https://www.forbes.com/sites/antoniopequenoiv/2024/11/12/trump-says-elon-musk-will-head-new-department-of-government-efficiency-alongside-vivek-ramaswamy/) him to lead the “Department Of Government Efficiency,” though exactly what the commission will do is still not exactly clear.

You go right ahead and believe the smokescreen word salad:rolleyes:

[SassyLady]

You go right ahead and believe the smokescreen word salad:rolleyes:

Despite its name, the billionaire-led commission is not proposed as an official government agency, but rather an advisory board which will “provide advice and guidance from outside of Government,” wrote Trump, who set forth the department’s primary objectives are to “dismantle Government Bureaucracy,

[NightTrain]

Seriously. They aren't working for the government. Just a newly formed department of government under the Executive Branch. You sound like a Democrat. "That might look, feel and smell like dogshit, but it isn't dogshit:rolleyes:

The People gave Trump a second chance and he's fucking it up with his cronies.


Trump is following through with EXACTLY what he promised as he campaigned. DOGE was openly talked about extensively, with Elon and Vivek being the axemen.

You might want to give this team a chance. This is nothing like any of us have seen in our lifetime, and we've all bitched about how bloated the Fed Gov is and how terrible it is. The goal is to slash at least 1/3 of the Fed budget, hopes are for much more.

Radical? Yeah, for sure. But neccessary and the mood of the country is supporting this effort. Now is the time.

[Gunny]

Trump is following through with EXACTLY what he promised as he campaigned. DOGE was openly talked about extensively, with Elon and Vivek being the axemen.

You might want to give this team a chance. This is nothing like any of us have seen in our lifetime, and we've all bitched about how bloated the Fed Gov is and how terrible it is. The goal is to slash at least 1/3 of the Fed budget, hopes are for much more.

Radical? Yeah, for sure. But neccessary and the mood of the country is supporting this effort. Now is the time.

Not the argument being had. Trump can waste his time and people's goodwill anyway he wants. Such a waste.

I'm just trying to figure out the part where a Department is not a department and how it can have any official authority without being a department. Smoke and mirrors:rolleyes:

As it stands, I'm also trying to differentiate between current admin's corrupt and future/proposed admin's inept/incompetence. Either way it's the Nation and the People that lose.

[Black Diamond]

Not the argument being had. Trump can waste his time and people's goodwill anyway he wants. Such a waste.

I'm just trying to figure out the part where a Department is not a department and how it can have any official authority without being a department. Smoke and mirrors:rolleyes:

As it stands, I'm also trying to differentiate between current admin's corrupt and future/proposed admin's inept/incompetence. Either way it's the Nation and the People that lose.

If you're right and this is a wasteful department then the name of the dept will sound Orwellian

[NightTrain]

Not the argument being had. Trump can waste his time and people's goodwill anyway he wants. Such a waste.

I'm just trying to figure out the part where a Department is not a department and how it can have any official authority without being a department. Smoke and mirrors:rolleyes:

As it stands, I'm also trying to differentiate between current admin's corrupt and future/proposed admin's inept/incompetence. Either way it's the Nation and the People that lose.


I guess the difference between us is that I'm optimistic that this can be done, and it's a worthy cause led by some extraordinary people who can't be bought & corrupted on this most noble of endeavors.

We have nothing to lose and everything to gain, and I'm fully supportive of the effort. At the very least I think people should allow them to try and then judge.

Doing nothing will lead to the end of this country. The debt being serviced now is more than the entire DOD budget and is spiraling wildly out of control and soon will be out of reach to stop. A reasonable person could look at this as a last ditch effort to save this nation from itself from irresponsible politicians who were only interested in their own short lived political gains - one example illustrated by Biden emtying the Strategic Petroleum Reserve right before the last midterms so democrats could point out how gas prices were coming down a week before the election.

[Black Diamond]

I guess the difference between us is that I'm optimistic that this can be done, and it's a worthy cause led by some extraordinary people who can't be bought & corrupted on this most noble of endeavors.

We have nothing to lose and everything to gain, and I'm fully supportive of the effort. At the very least I think people should allow them to try and then judge.

Doing nothing will lead to the end of this country. The debt being serviced now is more than the entire DOD budget and is spiraling wildly out of control and soon will be out of reach to stop. A reasonable person could look at this as a last ditch effort to save this nation from itself from irresponsible politicians who were only interested in their own short lived political gains - one example illustrated by Biden emtying the Strategic Petroleum Reserve right before the last midterms so democrats could point out how gas prices were coming down a week before the election.

It may take more one term or half term to do it.

[NightTrain]

It may take more one term or half term to do it.

It's a massive undertaking, no doubt about it. But we can reevaluate in 2 years and at this point, any departments being nuked from orbit are a win. There's a staggering amount of useless departments that, at the very least, need to be pruned - if not eliminated outright, like Dept of Education.

[Kathianne]

I guess the difference between us is that I'm optimistic that this can be done, and it's a worthy cause led by some extraordinary people who can't be bought & corrupted on this most noble of endeavors.

We have nothing to lose and everything to gain, and I'm fully supportive of the effort. At the very least I think people should allow them to try and then judge.

Doing nothing will lead to the end of this country. The debt being serviced now is more than the entire DOD budget and is spiraling wildly out of control and soon will be out of reach to stop. A reasonable person could look at this as a last ditch effort to save this nation from itself from irresponsible politicians who were only interested in their own short lived political gains - one example illustrated by Biden emtying the Strategic Petroleum Reserve right before the last midterms so democrats could point out how gas prices were coming down a week before the election.

I agree with your sentiments, though will take all of this much more seriously when the 'right' gets serious on pulling back on entitlements.

[fj1200]

He doesn't seem to be too bored with Tesla, Star Link, SpaceX ... etc.

I think he's going to enjoy the hell out of finding efficiencies.

Throw in a couple of "inefficiency" meetings and I think his eyes will glaze over.


Not adding an agency.


It will become, potentially, “The Manhattan Project” of our time. Republican politicians have dreamed about the objectivies of “DOGE” for a very long time. To drive this kind of drastic change, the Department of Government Efficiency will provide advice and guidance from outside of Governnment, and will partner with the White House and Office of Management & Budget to drive large scale structural reform, and create an entrepreneurial approach to Government never seen before.

I look forward to Elon and Vivek making changes to the Federal Bureaucracy with an eye on efficiency and, at the same time, making life better for all Americans. Importantly, we will drive out the massive waste and fraud which exists throughout our annual $6.5 Trillion Dollars of Government Spending. They will work together to liberate our Economy, and make the U.S. Government accountable to “WE THE PEOPLE.” Their work will conclude no later than July 4, 2026 – A small Government, with more efficiency and less bureaucracy, will be the perfect gift to America on the 250th Anniversary of The Declaration of Independence. I am confident they will succeed!

You're quite the cheerleader. Unfortunately entitlements...

[SassyLady]

Throw in a couple of "inefficiency" meetings and I think his eyes will glaze over.



You're quite the cheerleader. Unfortunately entitlements...
Jeeeze ... aren't you tired of using that word to explain away the waste in government.

[fj1200]

Jeeeze ... aren't you tired of using that word to explain away the waste in government.

Do you understand that waste in government and entitlements are two different things? Honest question.

[Gunny]

I guess the difference between us is that I'm optimistic that this can be done, and it's a worthy cause led by some extraordinary people who can't be bought & corrupted on this most noble of endeavors.

We have nothing to lose and everything to gain, and I'm fully supportive of the effort. At the very least I think people should allow them to try and then judge.

Doing nothing will lead to the end of this country. The debt being serviced now is more than the entire DOD budget and is spiraling wildly out of control and soon will be out of reach to stop. A reasonable person could look at this as a last ditch effort to save this nation from itself from irresponsible politicians who were only interested in their own short lived political gains - one example illustrated by Biden emtying the Strategic Petroleum Reserve right before the last midterms so democrats could point out how gas prices were coming down a week before the election.

Short memories around here. Like thread to thread:rolleyes: I have no problem with it being done. Right. This is just going to stir the hornet's nest again. And We, the People are the ones that will suffer for it. Again.

[SassyLady]

Do you understand that waste in government and entitlements are two different things? Honest question.

Then why are you bringing them up in a discussion about government waste?

[Gunny]

Then why are you bringing them up in a discussion about government waste?

There is waste in government entitlements. Help you out any?

[SassyLady]

There is waste in government entitlements. Help you out any?

Then get rid of the waste no matter where it's found

[Gunny]

Then get rid of the waste no matter where it's found

THERE's a new idea:rolleyes:

[Gunny]

“There’s the executive branch that might be in their way. The Congress might be in their way. The Constitution is a bit of an obstacle,” said Douglas Holtz-Eakin, (https://thehill.com/people/douglas-holtz-eakin/) president of American Action Forum.
“Other than that, clear sailing,” he told The Hill.



“They don’t have any authority to do anything other than say, ‘We think this will be good,’” he said. “Evidently, Mr. Musk has a lot of free time, and if he wants to waste it, that’s fine.”

Elon Musk's bold plans for 'Department of Government Efficiency' face roadblocks (https://thehill.com/policy/technology/4989117-musks-bold-plans-for-department-of-government-efficiency-face-roadblocks/)

[fj1200]

Then why are you bringing them up in a discussion about government waste?

Because fiddling about waste ignores the real problem.

[SassyLady]

Because fiddling about waste ignores the real problem.

Which is?

[fj1200]

Which is?

Ummm, entitlements. I thought you were paying attention.

Medicare alone.

https://www.pgpf.org/sites/default/files/0253_medicare_spending-full.gif

[SassyLady]

Ummm, entitlements. I thought you were paying attention.

Medicare alone.

https://www.pgpf.org/sites/default/files/0253_medicare_spending-full.gif

So Medicare is the real problem? Not the government waste all across the board?

[Gunny]

So Medicare is the real problem? Not the government waste all across the board?The bureaucracy that runs Medicare is the same bureaucracy that runs DC. There's a difference between the program and who runs it and how it is run.

As it stands, it is part and parcel to government waste. Inconvenient truth. We'll wait for Musk to fix it:rolleyes:

[NightTrain]

It sure seems to me that instead of rooting for our team, we've got a lot of sniping, snarling and backbiting going on here.

Reasonable questions are one thing; outright Lib-Style snarling at every imagined shortcoming is what the left is renowned for. Not the right.

Further, what difference if it's entitlements or departments? Why not both? Do we know yet? No, we don't. The government isn't even formed yet and here some of you are, acting like what I'm seeing out there in the wild with frantic libs who just lost everything one week ago, desperate to immediately attack anything they can sink their fangs into, real or imagined.

I don't know wtf happened, but this shit is not what I expected to see after such a monumental win.

[Kathianne]

Entitlements are not sustainable in current form. Better approach, let everyone take care of the own insurance, healthcare, investments, retirement funds, food purchases and preparation.

Ignoring the forced inflation we're currently suffering, all the above costs would be greatly reduced if government had never been involved. They charge what the markets will bare and the government is known to not only be wasteful, but has deep pockets.

Entitlements is where real money reduction and vastly lower taxes can be realized, thus freeing up money for consumers to rely on themselves more and more. The very fact that many here with considerable resources, just cannot contemplate life without the government caring for them, shows how down the rabbit hole we've gone.

I'm certainly NOT saying that all the money you've paid into for decades should just go down said rabbit hole, but be returned over time, meaning little change in what you are receiving month to month; but that younger people would also see an equivalent drop in SSI withholdings, so they can better plan for their futures and their children-today.

[fj1200]

So Medicare is the real problem? Not the government waste all across the board?

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand. Medicare and SS are baked into budget projections and not subject to any cut squad.


It sure seems to me that instead of rooting for our team, we've got a lot of sniping, snarling and backbiting going on here.

Reasonable questions are one thing; outright Lib-Style snarling at every imagined shortcoming is what the left is renowned for. Not the right.

Further, what difference if it's entitlements or departments? Why not both? Do we know yet? No, we don't. The government isn't even formed yet and here some of you are, acting like what I'm seeing out there in the wild with frantic libs who just lost everything one week ago, desperate to immediately attack anything they can sink their fangs into, real or imagined.

I don't know wtf happened, but this shit is not what I expected to see after such a monumental win.

There is no deep cut available without looking at entitlements. Anything other than those big budget, codified into law, spending programs, and it's just picking away at the edges. Do I hope that they can make a difference? Of course but be real about what you expect.

trump campaigned on no cuts to entitlements and give-away tax cuts (which have almost no chance of passing IMO) and it's a bit of folly to expect that it's all going to get paid for by efficiency gains.

[Kathianne]

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand. Medicare and SS are baked into budget projections and not subject to any cut squad.



There is no deep cut available without looking at entitlements. Anything other than those big budget, codified into law, spending programs, and it's just picking away at the edges. Do I hope that they can make a difference? Of course but be real about what you expect.

trump campaigned on no cuts to entitlements and give-away tax cuts (which have almost no chance of passing IMO) and it's a bit of folly to expect that it's all going to get paid for by efficiency gains.

I agree that he ran with promise of 'no cuts' to SSI. I get that. However, he's in a unique position to begin the real discussion that is needed. I wish him all the best, though do fervently hope that Gaetz is NOT confirmed.

I do think we all have a right to agree or disagree with choices made by Trump, whom we all voted for. OTOH, no one has to agree with the other, but we can keep it civil.

No one should tell another that they should 'do this' or 'don't do this,' but have every right to say, "I think that's bs/crazy/off the wall, because __________...."

[NightTrain]

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand. Medicare and SS are baked into budget projections and not subject to any cut squad.



There is no deep cut available without looking at entitlements. Anything other than those big budget, codified into law, spending programs, and it's just picking away at the edges. Do I hope that they can make a difference? Of course but be real about what you expect.

trump campaigned on no cuts to entitlements and give-away tax cuts (which have almost no chance of passing IMO) and it's a bit of folly to expect that it's all going to get paid for by efficiency gains.


Did you see what Elon did to Twitter after he bought it? He nuked 80% of that corporate beast, and it's running better than ever - and transparently.

Have you seen his extraordinary achievements in the space program? Compare his company to the mammoth that is NASA and his competitor, Boeing. Elon brought the stranded Astronauts home after Boeing's 5x more expensive mission failed. He's doing rocket launches cheaper and more efficiently than anyone in history, and he did it in record time. Boeing loves them some subsidies, though.

Have you considered the modern marvel that is StarLink? That's in my industry and let me assure you, it's staggering how great that network is. It outperforms brand new state-of-the-art Fiber networks (that I helped build, btw) and costs $110 to the consumer as opposed to the inferior land based network that will charge customers $500 / month. The Utility I contracted for are getting their lunch eaten. Billions and billions of Taxpayer dollars are flowing to Utility companies to create a worse product that's more expensive to the consumer. Elon did that in record time and there are no subsidies.

I don't think you appreciate the genius that is Elon Musk. Add in Vivek. They're looking to add to their team of Axemen and those two know some extremely talented and smart people.

But you go ahead and underestimate Elon and his capacity to perform - especially when something really grabs his focus like this project.

[fj1200]

I agree that he ran with promise of 'no cuts' to SSI. I get that. However, he's in a unique position to begin the real discussion that is needed. I wish him all the best, though do fervently hope that Gaetz is NOT confirmed.

I do think we all have a right to agree or disagree with choices made by Trump, whom we all voted for. OTOH, no one has to agree with the other, but we can keep it civil.

No one should tell another that they should 'do this' or 'don't do this,' but have every right to say, "I think that's bs/crazy/off the wall, because __________...."

He could surprise, no question, and I hope that he does. If he merely surrounds himself with acolytes then I'm going to have serious doubts. Does he want to be praised or does he want to put the country on a better footing, say... Great Again? Those two things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive but I think Great Again requires some tough choices that a POTUS needs to explain and cheerlead.

And Medicare savings would be a slam dunk by merely changing the laws about how payments are made; it would make a serious dent in rampant Medicare fraud. I think I saw a reference that he made to it but I don't recall it being a major point. Another slam dunk IMO would be eliminating base line budgeting which assumes next years budget is the same as this year and any increase needs to be explained and voted on.

[fj1200]

But you go ahead and underestimate Elon and his capacity to perform - especially when something really grabs his focus like this project.

I don't underestimate anybody. I'm just being realistic. It's also a little different in making changes to corporate entities when you're the guy vs 536 guys who have a vote.

[Kathianne]

Did you see what Elon did to Twitter after he bought it? He nuked 80% of that corporate beast, and it's running better than ever - and transparently.

Have you seen his extraordinary achievements in the space program? Compare his company to the mammoth that is NASA and his competitor, Boeing. Elon brought the stranded Astronauts home after Boeing's 5x more expensive mission failed. He's doing rocket launches cheaper and more efficiently than anyone in history, and he did it in record time. Boeing loves them some subsidies, though.

Have you considered the modern marvel that is StarLink? That's in my industry and let me assure you, it's staggering how great that network is. It outperforms brand new state-of-the-art Fiber networks (that I helped build, btw) and costs $110 to the consumer as opposed to the inferior land based network that will charge customers $500 / month. The Utility I contracted for are getting their lunch eaten. Billions and billions of Taxpayer dollars are flowing to Utility companies to create a worse product that's more expensive to the consumer. Elon did that in record time and there are no subsidies.

I don't think you appreciate the genius that is Elon Musk. Add in Vivek. They're looking to add to their team of Axemen and those two know some extremely talented and smart people.

But you go ahead and underestimate Elon and his capacity to perform - especially when something really grabs his focus like this project.

I admired and am in awe of Elon and his accomplishments, I'm certainly going to give him and Vivek a chance. I am not as 'sold' on Vivek, but that's more likely a personality thing, he rubbed me the wrong way every time I've heard him. I know he's made a ton of money, but that isn't enough. So has Soros. There's plenty of waste and poor decisions regarding spending, not connected with entitlements; just unlikely enough to make any great shakes in what is going to taxes, just check the withholdings.




He could surprise, no question, and I hope that he does. If he merely surrounds himself with acolytes then I'm going to have serious doubts. Does he want to be praised or does he want to put the country on a better footing, say... Great Again? Those two things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive but I think Great Again requires some tough choices that a POTUS needs to explain and cheerlead.

And Medicare savings would be a slam dunk by merely changing the laws about how payments are made; it would make a serious dent in rampant Medicare fraud. I think I saw a reference that he made to it but I don't recall it being a major point. Another slam dunk IMO would be eliminating base line budgeting which assumes next years budget is the same as this year and any increase needs to be explained and voted on.

We agree on the acolytes or minions in my parlance. ;) We certainly are in agreement regarding Medicare and there are so many other ways to get rid of entitlements while providing for those that physically or mentally are unable to care for themselves.

Hell, just look at SNAP; WIC; Free breakfast, lunch, and sometimes dinner provided from schools. So much overlap! Ridiculous. 'Well the parent(s) that get SNAP might waste the $$ on drugs, alcohol, poor food choices...So, WIC covers fruits, veggies, milk, formula-cause well babies need and parents???? It's why food must be given at schools, though much is thrown away...

[NightTrain]

I don't underestimate anybody. I'm just being realistic. It's also a little different in making changes to corporate entities when you're the guy vs 536 guys who have a vote.


There's a clear agenda backed by both houses of congress and a 2nd term White House that doesn't have to worry about reelection. There's also SCOTUS too, and I'm sure they're going to be involved as the mass of lawsuits are filed to stop progress.

Trump wields a very large stick right now, as evidenced by how he performed better than downballot candidates. That means his displeasure toward a congressperson is going to carry a hell of a lot of weight and most will fear going against him, especially GOP politicians who want to run again.

The clear mandate means that there will be very difficult questions to answer to those who don't play ball.

[Kathianne]

There's a clear agenda backed by both houses of congress and a 2nd term White House that doesn't have to worry about reelection. There's also SCOTUS too, and I'm sure they're going to be involved as the mass of lawsuits are filed to stop progress.

Trump wields a very large stick right now, as evidenced by how he performed better than downballot candidates. That means his displeasure toward a congressperson is going to carry a hell of a lot of weight and most will fear going against him, especially GOP politicians who want to run again.

The clear mandate means that there will be very difficult questions to answer to those who don't play ball.

I totally agree about the 'big stick' and also his hitting the road running, time IS short. OTOH, with wrong picks, failure to correct, and listening only to those that love his unicorn farts, hubris and fall is likely.

I want him to succeed.

[Kathianne]

This seems relevant. Thoughts? Site for all of it, c & p only went so far

https://hotair.com/generalissimo/2024/11/15/the-dakotas-need-a-master-of-the-horsestat-n3797007


The Dakotas Need a Master of the Horse...Stat!Duane Patterson 9:40 AM | November 15, 2024



AP Photo/Jacquelyn Martin
In Ancient Rome, there was a little-used title that was bestowed on someone to serve as the 'break glass in case of need of an emergency dictator' leader. If the tyrant was away for any extended period of time, the Master of the Horse stepped in and assumed the role of the dictator, with all the rights and privileges, until the main guy returned. As it turns out, both North and South Dakota are now vulnerable to a siege led by Minnesota's embittered governor, Tim Walz.


As President-Elect Donald Trump continues to make announcements filling out his cabinet and senior staff, the poaching has been relatively evenly split between members of Congress and the governor ranks. Marco Rubio in the Senate has been tapped for Secretary of State, but so far, he's the only member of the upper chamber chosen. Included in the first wave of picks, was South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem going to Homeland Security. Last night at Mar-A-Lago, Trump teased an upcoming pick without wanting to name who the person was or for which office. Then, sensing he was on a roll, he let fly with the news anyway.






Now granted, I'm in orbit around Hugh Hewitt's larger world, having produced his nationally-syndicated radio program for almost a quarter century. Hugh made his bones in law as a very capable Environmental Species attorney. The battles he waged and often won against the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Department, The Bureau of Land Management, and the overall department which oversees them, the Department of the Interior, are legendary around these parts. To us, of all the cabinet-level picks ranked in importance, Department of Defense and State are right up there, for obvious reasons. The Department of Justice is clearly front and center after being politicized and weaponized over the last four years. But right there among them, if this country is going to unleash the boom cycle it's capable of in order to grow our way out of economic doldrums is the Department of the Interior. North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum has been chosen for that job, and this is among the finest of picks Donald Trump has made yet.


It had been speculated almost since the day Burgum suspended his campaign for the presidency and endorsed Donald Trump that he would be on the short list for some cabinet pick, perhaps the Department of Energy, which would also have been a natural fit. North Dakota is an energy state. It's rich with natural resources, and could be one of the catalyst states to cause an energy-led explosion of jobs and economic prosperity if only the federal government could get out of the way. But Burgum going to DOI is an inspired choice.


The Department of the Interior is currently home to 70,000 federal employees. Think of that. 70,000. The Bureau of Land Management oversees 640 million acres of federal land. Alaska is the largest state in the Union by far. It's about 365 million acres. If overlaid on top of the continental United States, this is how big it is.






Now double it, minus the Aleutian Islands, and that's how much land is off limits to private development. It's over half the land mass of the United States. The amount of oil alone that's available but not being tapped in the Dakotas, Alaska, in Texas and the Southwest, not to mention the reserves that are in the Gulf of Mexico and off the West Coast, are staggering. We could become the world's leading producer of oil and natural gas in relatively short order were we have to have policies that would allow for the increased exploration and development of land just sitting there unused.


China is trying to corner the market in rare earth minerals that are necessary in things like batteries and electronics to which environmentalists are demanding we migrate. Wyoming recently discovered 228,000 tons of lithium. That would more than offset the maneuvering China is attempting were we to let the private sector loose. Enter Doug Burgum.


The entire platform of Governor Burgum on which he ran in the Republican primary earlier this year revolved around letting energy production be the catalyst to economic growth. Working hand in glove with the newly-minted Department of Government Efficiency, the regulatory powers of all the agencies in his purview are going to be slashed. And that's just on public land.


Interior also is the bane of the existence of homebuilders and business development projects everywhere. Remember the Delta Smelt, the bait fish that caused the water to stop flowing from Northern California to the Central Valley, which caused the Western U.S.' breadbasket to dry up? The Waters of the United States, which meant if you had a puddle from a rainstorm on your property and a mosquito or some protected species landed on it, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service deemed your land a federal waterway and endangered species habitat and no longer under your control? All of those ridiculous rules and regulations, all those know-nothing bureaucrats are now the Endangered Species in Burgum's Department of Interior in this next administration.


I mentioned working with Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy at D.O.G.E. Ramaswamy mentioned yesterday that this isn't just about getting rid of $4 million dollar toilet projects and other wasteful spending, though that's very much included in their mission statement. It's capitalizing on the Supreme Court's ruling in West Virginia V. EPA, gutting the Chevron doctrine once and for all.






It seriously is difficult to overstate the magnitude of what is coming for the regulatory state, especially including the Department of the Interior. Cynical Publius over on X picked up on the enormity of this as well.






Another grand slam with the Burgum pick. I think Todd Blanche is a terrific pick for deputy Attorney General. In fact, I wouldn't be upset if he ends up with the top job after nature, and the Senate, runs its course with Matt Gaetz. I'm meh on the RFK pick at HHS. We knew that cake was baked when Kennedy dropped out and endorsed Donald Trump. But Doug Collins at VA? Another home run. John Sauer, the architect of the Trump immunity case that succeeded at the Supreme Court as the incoming Solicitor General is another terrific selection.


Take the full spectrum of picks by Donald Trump since the election, and even the biggest skeptics of the President-Elect on our side of the aisle have to admit most of them are better than expected.


If you happen to live in the Dakotas, North or South, I hope your lieutenant governors are actual people and that they know what they're doing. If not, I hereby put in my application to be named Master of the Horse. I can be there on a moment's notice to fend off the Gopher State invasionary force that surely is coming. Tim Walz thought he was going to help run the country. I promise to keep him contained to Minnesota.

[fj1200]

There's a clear agenda backed by both houses of congress and a 2nd term White House that doesn't have to worry about reelection. There's also SCOTUS too, and I'm sure they're going to be involved as the mass of lawsuits are filed to stop progress.

Trump wields a very large stick right now, as evidenced by how he performed better than downballot candidates. That means his displeasure toward a congressperson is going to carry a hell of a lot of weight and most will fear going against him, especially GOP politicians who want to run again.

The clear mandate means that there will be very difficult questions to answer to those who don't play ball.

Of course. But I'm not going to be taking the automatic "he's right" position. ;)

[Kathianne]

Of course. But I'm not going to be taking the automatic "he's right" position. ;)

You're not alone. I'm not looking to see the bad, but with Gaetz it's impossible not to speak out.

I'm not keen on RFK in HHS, but I didn't run and win, so I'll give Trump his choices. If they bomb, it will not be ignored. Gaetz I'm truly hoping is exposed through leak of report and not put into any new position, approval needed or not.

[Black Diamond]

You're not alone. I'm not looking to see the bad, but with Gaetz it's impossible not to speak out.

I'm not keen on RFK in HHS, but I didn't run and win, so I'll give Trump his choices. If they bomb, it will not be ignored. Gaetz I'm truly hoping is exposed through leak of report and not put into any new position, approval needed or not.

I feel like Gaetz has a get of jail free card at this moment. But he has to withdraw his name.

[Kathianne]

I feel like Gaetz has a get of jail free card at this moment. But he has to withdraw his name.

Withdraw or not be approved is my guess. The problem with 'withdrawal,' is that Trump would seem justified in putting him in someplace senate approval isn't needed.

It's like the nutty liberal teacher (https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2024/11/15/fafo-of-the-week-i-didnt-mean-id-kill-kill-trump-voters-n3797013) that threatened to "end you forever" towards Trump voters. LOL! She found out that doesn't work after tik tok released. Lost her job and wants sympathy. D'oh! Actions SHOULD have consequences.

I can't think of a worse crime short of murder than trafficking minors.

[Black Diamond]

Withdraw or not be approved is my guess. The problem with 'withdrawal,' is that Trump would seem justified in putting him in someplace senate approval isn't needed.

It's like the nutty liberal teacher (https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2024/11/15/fafo-of-the-week-i-didnt-mean-id-kill-kill-trump-voters-n3797013) that threatened to "end you forever" towards Trump voters. LOL! She found out that doesn't work after tik tok released. Lost her job and wants sympathy. D'oh! Actions SHOULD have consequences.

I can't think of a worse crime short of murder than trafficking minors.

Trafficking minors is horrible. Are we to trust Mccarthy?

[Kathianne]

Trafficking minors is horrible. Are we to trust Mccarthy?
McCarthy trafficked? I didn't hear that, do tell.

[Gunny]

It sure seems to me that instead of rooting for our team, we've got a lot of sniping, snarling and backbiting going on here.

Reasonable questions are one thing; outright Lib-Style snarling at every imagined shortcoming is what the left is renowned for. Not the right.

Further, what difference if it's entitlements or departments? Why not both? Do we know yet? No, we don't. The government isn't even formed yet and here some of you are, acting like what I'm seeing out there in the wild with frantic libs who just lost everything one week ago, desperate to immediately attack anything they can sink their fangs into, real or imagined.

I don't know wtf happened, but this shit is not what I expected to see after such a monumental win.

Bigger issue is when you can't tell the alleged/self-proclaimed "conservatives" from the libs. The left is also known for bold-faced lying, cheerleading those lies, and otherwise putting lipstick on a pig. Wouldn't be a problem 'cept for some passive-aggressive types trying to piss down everyone's necks and tell them it's raining.

Been through this last time in 16 when calling a spade a spade and starry-eyed cheerleaders got their panties in a bunch every time someone disagreed with his Holiness's f-d up decisions.

[Gunny]

Entitlements are not sustainable in current form. Better approach, let everyone take care of the own insurance, healthcare, investments, retirement funds, food purchases and preparation.

Ignoring the forced inflation we're currently suffering, all the above costs would be greatly reduced if government had never been involved. They charge what the markets will bare and the government is known to not only be wasteful, but has deep pockets.

Entitlements is where real money reduction and vastly lower taxes can be realized, thus freeing up money for consumers to rely on themselves more and more. The very fact that many here with considerable resources, just cannot contemplate life without the government caring for them, shows how down the rabbit hole we've gone.

I'm certainly NOT saying that all the money you've paid into for decades should just go down said rabbit hole, but be returned over time, meaning little change in what you are receiving month to month; but that younger people would also see an equivalent drop in SSI withholdings, so they can better plan for their futures and their children-today.

Reasonable.

Fact is, industries will go right after that extra money the same as they did when housewives started taking part-time jobs to get ahead. Next thing you know it's hard to survive without that second full income. Also, people not saving is what caused SS to begin with. Had they, there would have been no excuse for such.

Far more inclined to clean up the programs and see where we stand. Also have no problem with stopping withholding now, with no entitlement in the future and just paying out those that have already paid in. IIRC wen WB proposed cutting SS withholding and allowing people to invest it themselves it was a mandatory investment. That doesn't put the money in anyone's pocket to use now.

[Gunny]

Did you see what Elon did to Twitter after he bought it? He nuked 80% of that corporate beast, and it's running better than ever - and transparently.

Have you seen his extraordinary achievements in the space program? Compare his company to the mammoth that is NASA and his competitor, Boeing. Elon brought the stranded Astronauts home after Boeing's 5x more expensive mission failed. He's doing rocket launches cheaper and more efficiently than anyone in history, and he did it in record time. Boeing loves them some subsidies, though.

Have you considered the modern marvel that is StarLink? That's in my industry and let me assure you, it's staggering how great that network is. It outperforms brand new state-of-the-art Fiber networks (that I helped build, btw) and costs $110 to the consumer as opposed to the inferior land based network that will charge customers $500 / month. The Utility I contracted for are getting their lunch eaten. Billions and billions of Taxpayer dollars are flowing to Utility companies to create a worse product that's more expensive to the consumer. Elon did that in record time and there are no subsidies.

I don't think you appreciate the genius that is Elon Musk. Add in Vivek. They're looking to add to their team of Axemen and those two know some extremely talented and smart people.

But you go ahead and underestimate Elon and his capacity to perform - especially when something really grabs his focus like this project.

He has no authority to do anything but recommend. That ought to take just long enough for the bureaucrats to allow Trump's term to expire. I will adjust my opinion if and when the facts change.

[Kathianne]

Reasonable.

Fact is, industries will go right after that extra money the same as they did when housewives started taking part-time jobs to get ahead. Next thing you know it's hard to survive without that second full income. Also, people not saving is what caused SS to begin with. Had they, there would have been no excuse for such.

Far more inclined to clean up the programs and see where we stand. Also have no problem with stopping withholding now, with no entitlement in the future and just paying out those that have already paid in. IIRC wen WB proposed cutting SS withholding and allowing people to invest it themselves it was a mandatory investment. That doesn't put the money in anyone's pocket to use now.

No one has to buy what they are selling. Self-discipline and truly free choice.

[Gunny]

No one has to buy what they are selling. Self-discipline and truly free choice.

I agree with you, but just as in the DOE thread, it requires people to be personally responsible. It keeps coming back to that. That goes back to parenting. While everybody's "fixing" stuff, they need to try fixing THAT.

[Kathianne]

I agree with you, but just as in the DOE thread, it requires people to be personally responsible. It keeps coming back to that. That goes back to parenting. While everybody's "fixing" stuff, they need to try fixing THAT.

Only the 'parents' can fix the parents. You and I can't.

My guess is the end of entitlements or rather phasing out, would have an immediate self-discipline movement gaining.

[Gunny]

Only the 'parents' can fix the parents. You and I can't.

My guess is the end of entitlements or rather phasing out, would have an immediate self-discipline movement gaining.

You think? I don't know. We won't be around for it, but what do you do with those who don't? Most people living paycheck to paycheck don't have anything to put aside. Not sure personal responsibility can be re-instilled in the lazy.

Or as an example, I never learned anything growing up about saving for retirement. Not in school, at home, nor in the Marine Corps.

[Kathianne]

You think? I don't know. We won't be around for it, but what do you do with those who don't? Most people living paycheck to paycheck don't have anything to put aside. Not sure personal responsibility can be re-instilled in the lazy.

Or as an example, I never learned anything growing up about saving for retirement. Not in school, at home, nor in the Marine Corps.

I get what you're saying about learning regarding retirement and other savings plans. However, you have your MC retirement anything from electrical work? I don't know how much we're talking about, it's really no one's business but your own.

I'm making about $30k per year from working and teaching retirement. I get by, benefits from work and save about $100 a month; plus buying $80 month in Walmart stock, now worth over 6k in a bit more than 3 years. The stock I'd cash out if I decide to move, so I keep my only debt my car, which will be paid off in about 1 year. So far, I've not needed to get SSI or Medicare, for the simple reason I strongly think it's wrong for my kids/grandchildren; it's got to start somewhere.

The truth is that even 40 years ago, 70 year olds were pretty worn out. Not so true today. Not necessarily without health issues, but if one takes care, watches diet, exercises, takes needed meds, pretty good shape.

Yes, there would need to be something in place to help those that physically or mentally cannot care for themselves-but it should not be a cause for equity for those who plan.

[Gunny]

I get what you're saying about learning regarding retirement and other savings plans. However, you have your MC retirement anything from electrical work? I don't know how much we're talking about, it's really no one's business but your own.

I'm making about $30k per year from working and teaching retirement. I get by, benefits from work and save about $100 a month; plus buying $80 month in Walmart stock, now worth over 6k in a bit more than 3 years. The stock I'd cash out if I decide to move, so I keep my only debt my car, which will be paid off in about 1 year. So far, I've not needed to get SSI or Medicare, for the simple reason I strongly think it's wrong for my kids/grandchildren; it's got to start somewhere.

The truth is that even 40 years ago, 70 year olds were pretty worn out. Not so true today. Not necessarily without health issues, but if one takes care, watches diet, exercises, takes needed meds, pretty good shape.

Yes, there would need to be something in place to help those that physically or mentally cannot care for themselves-but it should not be a cause for equity for those who plan.

I learned in a backwards sort of way to go for retirement with whatever I was going to do. My grandfather was union and forced to medically retire. He got SS disability and a check from the union every month until died. So I had this notion in the back of my head without being taught to go after something that paid off in the end. Had I chosen to go the electrician route out of school, I'd have gone union simply for the retirement.

I get nothing from being an electrician. I didn't go union when I could easily have because the mom-n-pop companies have pretty much put them out of business here. Mom and Pop's offer 401ks if anything. I was impatient and wanted to get paid and was already collecting retirement.

I get military retirement and social security. Don't have a choice but go on Medicare. Military Tricare automatically switches you over to Medicare at 65 then Tricare becomes supplemental. I can still walk in on base for free. Space available, last in line :laugh: I've actually been considering looking into health insurance that isn't Medicare. That sounds so "Welfare" to me:laugh:

Even if I had a "perfect" plan back in the day, none of them prepare for cost of living/inflation. I do make enough to go get an apartment if I want. Ten I would be bored and I don't ever tend to do well bored :)

[NightTrain]

Bigger issue is when you can't tell the alleged/self-proclaimed "conservatives" from the libs.

You sure hit that one on the head.


Been through this last time in 16 when calling a spade a spade and starry-eyed cheerleaders got their panties in a bunch every time someone disagreed with his Holiness's f-d up decisions.

I recall a whole lot of anklebiting and snarling then, too. It got real tiresome then as well, what with mass snark and innuendos galore with nothing to back it up except wild guesses of how things were about to fuck up catastrophically - much as now, only this time the Admininstration is in magnitudes better of a position.

Another thing that got real tiring is seeing dogpiles. I didn't like seeing that shit, either. Neither did you, if I remember correctly.

[Gunny]

You sure hit that one on the head.



I recall a whole lot of anklebiting and snarling then, too. It got real tiresome then as well, what with mass snark and innuendos galore with nothing to back it up except wild guesses of how things were about to fuck up catastrophically - much as now, only this time the Admininstration is in magnitudes better of a position.

Another thing that got real tiring is seeing dogpiles. I didn't like seeing that shit, either. Neither did you, if I remember correctly.

You seem to have who was doing what to whom in 2016 ass-backward.

[SassyLady]

I learned in a backwards sort of way to go for retirement with whatever I was going to do. My grandfather was union and forced to medically retire. He got SS disability and a check from the union every month until died. So I had this notion in the back of my head without being taught to go after something that paid off in the end. Had I chosen to go the electrician route out of school, I'd have gone union simply for the retirement.

I get nothing from being an electrician. I didn't go union when I could easily have because the mom-n-pop companies have pretty much put them out of business here. Mom and Pop's offer 401ks if anything. I was impatient and wanted to get paid and was already collecting retirement.

I get military retirement and social security. Don't have a choice but go on Medicare. Military Tricare automatically switches you over to Medicare at 65 then Tricare becomes supplemental. I can still walk in on base for free. Space available, last in line :laugh: I've actually been considering looking into health insurance that isn't Medicare. That sounds so "Welfare" to me:laugh:

Even if I had a "perfect" plan back in the day, none of them prepare for cost of living/inflation. I do make enough to go get an apartment if I want. Ten I would be bored and I don't ever tend to do well bored :)
I retired at 62 with social security and DOD retirement. I did invest money in stocks in 2015 from the sale of my house and made a couple of loans to small businesses that give me a good monthly paycheck.

I do pay for my Medicare.... the premium is deducted from my social security check every month. I also pay for united health care supplemental. So I'm paying close to $400 per month for medical insurance.

I'm comfortable.

[SassyLady]

Pentagon fail again

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/11/pentagon-fails-seventh-straight-financial-audit-billions-defense/

[revelarts]

Many on the right like to target "entitlements", SS, Welfare & such for cuts.
But if we look at the percentages of budget spending can we guess where most to the Waste & or Entitlements might be?
Where we might recover the MOST money/taxes?




https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GcqsrkAWwAINp2G?format=png&name=small


But thankfully many on the right do talk about crony capitalism and allowing the market to make prices.
So I guess they are 100% against CORPORATE Welfare/Entitlements.
In 2011ish the numbers looked like this.
"...So now let’s look at the big picture. The final totals are $59 billion, 3 percent of the total federal budget, for regular welfare and $92 billion, 5 percent of the total federal budget, for corporations. So, the government spends roughly 50% more on corporate welfare than it does on these particular public assistance programs..."
https://thinkbynumbers.org/government-spending/corporate-vs-social-welfare/


So it seems to me if we're serious we can't play favorites.
And maybe it might even make sense not to hit the poorest 1st? At least without giving a thought to what more homeless will cost local gov'ts to deal with, financially & in other wise.

But hey maybe I'm looking at the wrong numbers... or looking at the numbers wrong.
Maybe social security is the Biggest and that needs cutting? for the greater good?

[revelarts]

Here's another place we might consider cutting.
https://foreignassistance.gov

"In 2023, the United States spent nearly $61 billion on foreign aid. Fully half of that budget has gone to just ten countries:

Ukraine (https://concernusa.org/where-we-work/ukraine/) ($16.4 billion)
Israel ($3.3 billion)
Ethiopia (https://concernusa.org/where-we-work/ethiopia/) ($1.95 billion)
Jordan ($1.65 billion)
Egypt ($1.43 billion)
Afghanistan (https://concernusa.org/where-we-work/afghanistan/) ($1.19 billion)
Somalia (https://concernusa.org/where-we-work/somalia/) ($1.13 billion)
Yemen ($1.05 billion)
Congo ($987 million)
Syria (https://concernusa.org/where-we-work/syria/) ($896 million)


https://concernusa.org/news/foreign-aid-by-country/



https://concernusa.org/uploads/us-foreign-aid-disbursements-2023.png



I may be wrong, but these number seems a few billion lower than I've heard reported.

[Kathianne]

Many on the right like to target "entitlements", SS, Welfare & such for cuts.
But if we look at the percentages of budget spending can we guess where most to the Waste & or Entitlements might be?
Where we might recover the MOST money/taxes?




https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GcqsrkAWwAINp2G?format=png&name=small


But thankfully many on the right do talk about crony capitalism and allowing the market to make prices.
So I guess they are 100% against CORPORATE Welfare/Entitlements.
In 2011ish the numbers looked like this.
"...So now let’s look at the big picture. The final totals are $59 billion, 3 percent of the total federal budget, for regular welfare and $92 billion, 5 percent of the total federal budget, for corporations. So, the government spends roughly 50% more on corporate welfare than it does on these particular public assistance programs..."
https://thinkbynumbers.org/government-spending/corporate-vs-social-welfare/


So it seems to me if we're serious we can't play favorites.
And maybe it might even make sense not to hit the poorest 1st? At least without giving a thought to what more homeless will cost local gov'ts to deal with, financially & in other wise.

But hey maybe I'm looking at the wrong numbers... or looking at the numbers wrong.
Maybe social security is the Biggest and that needs cutting? for the greater good?

What do you claim is represented in the pie chart?

[revelarts]

What do you claim is represented in the pie chart?

The chart seems to represent itself fairly clearly.
I'm not trying to claim it represents anything other than what it does.

I'm asking what part of the that pie are we likely to find the most tax money wasted.

[Kathianne]

not a budget, was proposed budget DISCRETIONARY SPENDING for 2016, meaning Obama. Meaning only looking at the areas that can expand and contract, PRIOR to Congressional input.

Think of SOTU Address.

Honest discussions are based on apples v apples, NOT 'hoped for' budgets or 'let's pretend that defense is the only area where real money is spent.

[revelarts]

not a budget, was proposed budget DISCRETIONARY SPENDING for 2016, meaning Obama. Meaning only looking at the areas that can expand and contract, PRIOR to Congressional input.

Think of SOTU Address.

Honest discussions are based on apples v apples, NOT 'hoped for' budgets or 'let's pretend that defense is the only area where real money is spent.

Obama... like a president.
what a president hopes for... like Trump... where they can clearly see there's room for change.
That's the apple we're talking about right?
where Musk & Viveck are making plans to hopfully deal with.
Under whatever legal strictures congress has already put on funds.
And Whatever budget congress submits to the president to sign.

And honest discussions include the possibility of MAJOR military budget cuts to help create a balanced budget...as well as other areas of waste.

[Kathianne]

Obama... like a president.
what a president hopes for... like Trump... where they can clearly see there's room for change.
That's the apple we're talking about right?
where Musk & Viveck are making plans to hopfully deal with.
Under whatever legal strictures congress has already put on funds.
And Whatever budget congress submits to the president to sign.

And honest discussions include the possibility of MAJOR military budget cuts to help create a balanced budget...as well as other areas of waste.


If you wish to discuss military budget, go with that budget, not some anti-military leader's dream of how the 'insane' amount spent, is causing less than 5% spending anywhere else.

It's not a good starting point for discussion.

Use real numbers in budgets. Hint, might be a great idea to look at military spending over several administrations.

[revelarts]

If you wish to discuss military budget, go with that budget, not some anti-military leader's dream of how the 'insane' amount spent, is causing less than 5% spending anywhere else.
It's not a good starting point for discussion.
Use real numbers in budgets. Hint, might be a great idea to look at military spending over several administrations.
Seems like you're concerned about the source of the chart rather than the facts of the chart itself.
let's just say this on that point.
That the site says it's purpose is
"Fighting for a U.S. federal budget that prioritizes peace, economic security and shared prosperity"
not
were an "anti-military leader's dream of how the 'insane' amount spent..."
I hope we can we agree on that much.


But you say the military budget is not a good point to start discussion, Ok, why not? Or why is SS, entitlements, or welfare a good/better place?
My question asked where is the place we are most likely to find the MOST dollars wasted and largest areas possible to cut unneeded spending?
I think where ever that is, that the best place to start.

If you know of a better place to start I'm all for it.

[Kathianne]

Seems like you're concerned about the source of the chart rather than the facts of the chart itself.
let's just say this on that point.
That the site says it's purpose is
"Fighting for a U.S. federal budget that prioritizes peace, economic security and shared prosperity"
not
were an "anti-military leader's dream of how the 'insane' amount spent..."
I hope we can we agree on that much.


But you say the military budget is not a good point to start discussion, Ok, why not? Or why is SS, entitlements, or welfare a good place?
My question asked where is the place we are most likely to find the MOST dollars wasted and largest areas possible to cut unneeded spending?
I think that is the best place to start.

If you know of a better place to start I'm all for it.

Yeah, the chart says nothing, because the source is just 'whishes'.

[revelarts]

Yeah, the chart says nothing, because the source is just 'whishes'.

Show me a chart that includes ALL parts of the budget better than that one then Kath.

[Kathianne]

Yeah, the chart says nothing, because the source is just 'whishes'.

I have no problem discussing waste in military or any other starting point, just make it realistic.

Entitlements imo have plenty of waste, but as so often remarked, they are third rail.

[revelarts]

I have no problem discussing waste in military or any other starting point, just make it realistic.

Entitlements imo have plenty of waste, but as so often remarked, they are third rail.

Can you tell me what's unrealistic about the chart i posted, seems the information in it is from the OBM.


https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/spending/


"Discretionary Spending
By far, the biggest category of discretionary spending is spending on the Pentagon and military. In most years, this accounts for more than half of the discretionary budget. In 2020, because some discretionary spending passed through supplemental appropriations went to pandemic programs, the share of the discretionary budget that went to the military was smaller – even though the amount that went to the military was just as high as in previous years.

Other examples of discretionary spending include the early childhood education program Head Start (included in Housing & Community), public housing and homeless programs (Housing & Community), federal aid for public K-12 education (Education), Pell grants for low-income college students (Education), food assistance for Women, Infants and Children (or WIC, in Food and Agriculture), job training and placement for unemployed people (in Social Security, Unemployment and Labor), and scientific research through the National Institutes of Health (NIH) and National Science Foundation (NSF), among many others.

Mandatory Spending
Mandatory spending is also legislated by Congress, often for multiple years at a time. It is dominated by the Social Security and Medicare programs, which provide income security and health insurance for retirees and some Americans with disabilities, and sometimes their families.

It also includes Medicaid, the health insurance program for low-income adults and children, and widely used safety net programs like food stamps (SNAP), welfare (TANF), and highway construction and maintenance, and other things.

When Congress decides to create a program like Social Security, rather than setting aside a certain amount of money, it sets rules for who can receive benefits from the program, and what those benefits will be. People who are eligible can get help, and the government covers the costs. Medicare and other programs work similarly.

One advantage of this kind of spending compared to discretionary spending (which is limited by the amounts Congress sets) is that it can more readily respond to unexpected circumstances like a recession, or a pandemic. During the COVID-19 crisis, for example, anyone who qualified for stimulus checks could get them. Unlike discretionary programs, the money didn’t run out and shut some people out.

Mandatory spending makes up roughly two-thirds of the total federal budget in most years, and more in some years.

In 2020, most pandemic relief fell under mandatory spending programs. This led to mandatory spending of $5.2 trillion, much higher than in previous years. The ability to quickly ramp up spending enabled the government to help people who lost jobs, those who got sick, and many others.

This chart shows where $5.2 trillion in mandatory spending went in 2020."

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GcrynsUXwAAQjS6?format=png&name=900x900

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GcrynsUWwAAMiH2?format=jpg&name=medium

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GcrynsUWYAAPQ99?format=png&name=900x900

[Kathianne]

Better. You realize that about 25% of total budget is discretionary, right? The rest is payment on debt and entitlements. As the debt rises, which has been rapid the past 4 years, discretionary spending is either reduced or debt increases. Guess what the choices have been.

The only cuts possible are discretionary. I do wonder if you understand where the US military is today?

If you really don't care about who is ruling, then the military really is irrelevant. Choices.

[Gunny]

Better. You realize that about 25% of total budget is discretionary, right? The rest is payment on debt and entitlements. As the debt rises, which has been rapid the past 4 years, discretionary spending is either reduced or debt increases. Guess what the choices have been.

The only cuts possible are discretionary. I do wonder if you understand where the US military is today?

If you really don't care about who is ruling, then the military really is irrelevant. Choices.Behind.

Guess what cuts look like when you have to go to war because you are deemed weak by aggressors? Ration cards. Nothing discretionary about them.

[fj1200]

Can you tell me what's unrealistic about the chart i posted, seems the information in it is from the OBM.

It's incomplete. What point are you trying to make? Do you know how far in the whole we are? Do you think they're going to find things that plenty of others haven't found? I wish them luck and hope they get budgets passed but be realistic about what can be accomplished.