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View Full Version : The Left Is Planning For What Next; The Right Should Too



Kathianne
11-09-2024, 11:15 AM
Good article, this is an 'intro.' I don't subscribe to the Times, but have used up all my 'free articles.' Here's the link to NYT (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/07/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-election.html):

https://hotair.com/john-s-2/2024/11/08/ezra-klein-this-too-shall-pass-n3796840


Ezra Klein: This Too Shall PassJohn Sexton 6:40 PM | November 08, 2024



(AP PHOTO/DARREN HAUCK)
Republicans are celebrating this week and Democrats are going through various stages of despair and disbelief, wondering what to do next. Over at the NY Times, Ezra Klein has a reminder which seems written for an audience of dejected Democrats but which is probably something Republicans should think about as well.


There are really two messages, the first one is that the Obama coalition is dead and won't be coming back. Whatever glue once held that group of progressives and minorities together just blew up. Instead of a black candidate winning as Obama did in 2008, we had a black candidate losing. Instead of uniform rallying together of minority groups to support Democrats, we had Republicans hitting new high-water marks with Hispanic, Black, Jewish and Asian Americans. As Beege might say, kaboom!


Trump got the win in 2024 he could see only glimmers of in 2020. He got it despite Jan. 6, despite the criminal charges and convictions, despite the wild statements and weaving rants. Democrats did everything they could to convince voters Trump was unfit for office, and voters gave Trump his first-ever popular vote victory.


...Trump sharply improved his margin in New York City. These are voters angry about prices, about immigration, about a sense of disorder and failure. Trump seems to have made huge gains among voters making less than $50,000 a year. The Democratic Party is losing voters who lie at the core of its conception of itself.


But the other part of Klein's message is that we've seen this happen before. In 2004, George W. Bush won re-election by winning the electoral college and the popular vote.


I find myself thinking about the 2004 election. In my lifetime, until today, that was the most total rejection liberals experienced. In 2000, George W. Bush was this accidental president. He’d lost the popular vote. He’d won the Electoral College after winning Florida by a few hundred votes. But by 2004, the lies and the failures and travesties of his administration were clear. The disaster of the Iraq war was clear. And the result was that Bush went from accidental president to unquestioned victor. He won the popular vote cleanly. On the electoral maps, the center of the country was a sea of red. What made that loss hurt so much for liberals was that by 2004, Americans knew who Bush was and what he had done. They chose him anyway.


But it didn't last. As Klein points out, that 2004 victory was exciting for the right and dispiriting for the left but it didn't signal a new dynasty of right-wing politics. In fact, it was followed by 8 years of Barack Obama.


By the time of the next presidential election, Democrats had opened the door to a new politics that seemed almost unimaginable in 2004. Yes, Barack Obama’s convention speech in 2004 was startlingly good, but he was still an antiwar Black man with the middle name Hussein whose politics were forged in Chicago. That wasn’t what Democrats thought would win Pennsylvania and Wisconsin and Indiana in 2008. But it was. And the Bush administration’s overreaches, failures and scandals left the reputation of G.O.P. elites so absolutely smashed that the stage was set for Trump’s eventual takeover of the party.


...So is this the beginning of the Trump realignment, or will this end with Trump’s name and reputation as tattered as that of the Bush dynasty he destroyed?


Republicans are celebrating this week and Democrats earned every bit of the despair they are feeling. And yet, this too shall pass. The other 48% of the country won't disappear. They will take every opportunity to bash Trump every single day and over time it could work.


It certainly worked on George W. Bush. Bush won the 2004 election but by the end of his second term Democrats were turning out for huge anti-war rallies seemingly every couple of weeks, carrying signs about Chimpy McHitlerburtion. Not surprisingly, those rallies all vanished once Obama was elected. It was always politics not principle that animated them. But the point is, they got what they wanted. And let's face it, they came very, very close to continuing Obama's 8 year run in 2016. Trump won that election by a hair.


Republicans won convincingly this week, but the time to start thinking about winning the next election is right now. The left is already making their own plans. They are gearing up the street protests once again. The will fight Trump in the courts. They will fight him in the media, which they mostly control already. Tuesday's victory only ushers us into the next uphill battle to make this into a lasting win, one that can benefit future conservative candidates.

Gunny
11-09-2024, 11:39 AM
Good article, this is an 'intro.' I don't subscribe to the Times, but have used up all my 'free articles.' Here's the link to NYT (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/07/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-election.html):

https://hotair.com/john-s-2/2024/11/08/ezra-klein-this-too-shall-pass-n3796840

One of my first thoughts on "planning for what next" is and has been Trump needs to start setting Vance up to succeed, by both definitions. Give Vance some popular, high profile stuff to call his own. The whole "there is only now, there is no tomorrow" crap grates on my nerves. Trump is 4 years max. That's not a long time.

Just a thought :)

Kathianne
11-09-2024, 11:52 AM
One of my first thoughts on "planning for what next" is and has been Trump needs to start setting Vance up to succeed, by both definitions. Give Vance some popular, high profile stuff to call his own. The whole "there is only now, there is no tomorrow" crap grates on my nerves. Trump is 4 years max. That's not a long time.

Just a thought :)

Some things I'd like to see:

More powers returned to the states.

Congress taking back their powers from executive.

Working at some way to curtail executive orders-from a President that has used them to a great extent.

That's off the top of my head.

Black Diamond
11-09-2024, 12:02 PM
One of my first thoughts on "planning for what next" is and has been Trump needs to start setting Vance up to succeed, by both definitions. Give Vance some popular, high profile stuff to call his own. The whole "there is only now, there is no tomorrow" crap grates on my nerves. Trump is 4 years max. That's not a long time.

Just a thought :)

Has Donald quit saying that since he won?

Black Diamond
11-09-2024, 12:08 PM
And yeah i think they should start go giving Vance experience so he can crush Newsom, Whitmer, etc

Gunny
11-09-2024, 12:34 PM
Some things I'd like to see:

More powers returned to the states.

Congress taking back their powers from executive.

Working at some way to curtail executive orders-from a President that has used them to a great extent.

That's off the top of my head.Not seeing Trump being down with the last two. Maybe if he can time it for after he leaves office:laugh:

Seems to me the balance of power is out of whack in a couple of directions. All the lawfare, with more to come as announced by Dem governors, has given the judiciary way more power than it should have. I'm okay with EO's ONLY IF they are followed by legislation. That should be a prerequisite. Temporary bridge pending legislation.

Partisanship is killing all of it.

Gunny
11-09-2024, 12:38 PM
Has Donald quit saying that since he won??


And yeah i think they should start go giving Vance experience so he can crush Newsom, Whitmer, etcThat would be the idea. Start selling him now. Putting him the usual VP closet not to be seen nor heard from then suddenly dumping 2028 on him gives him and the right a much steeper hill to climb.

Biggest thing in the way of that is Trump's ego. He as to take credit for any and everything. Lot of that going around:rolleyes: Maybe we'll get lucky and he'll be a team player for once.

Black Diamond
11-09-2024, 12:47 PM
One of my first thoughts on "planning for what next" is and has been Trump needs to start setting Vance up to succeed, by both definitions. Give Vance some popular, high profile stuff to call his own. The whole "there is only now, there is no tomorrow" crap grates on my nerves. Trump is 4 years max. That's not a long time.

Just a thought :)

Gunny. Has he quit saying bolded

Gunny
11-09-2024, 05:29 PM
@Gunny (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=30). Has he quit saying boldedIt's the American mentality. There's now. Never think nor plan ahead. Especially true with elected officials. There's the election I just won and the one coming up.


Look at the House. Republicans barely eeked that one out in 2022. What did they do to prove they were worth voters chancing the change? Nothing. They accomplished nothing. I have no idea how it is they are even in contention for the House much less looking like they are going to take it. It certainly is not performance-based.

They need to start earning their pay or they definitely won't survive an incumbent President's midterm.

Black Diamond
11-09-2024, 05:44 PM
It's the American mentality. There's now. Never think nor plan ahead. Especially true with elected officials. There's the election I just one and the one coming up.


Look at the House. Republicans barely eeked that one out in 2022. What did they do to prove they were worth voters chancing the change? Nothing. They accomplished nothing. I have no idea how it is they are even in contention for the House much less looking like they are going to take it. It certainly is not performance-based.

They need to start earning their pay or they definitely won't survive an incumbent President's midterm.

The potus usually loses congress ini Midterms. Exception was 2002 after 911

fj1200
11-11-2024, 11:41 PM
The potus usually loses congress ini Midterms. Exception was 2002 after 911

And 2022 when trump muffed a bunch of slam dunks. Looking at you Herschel Walker and Dr. Oz.

Black Diamond
11-12-2024, 07:39 AM
And 2022 when trump muffed a bunch of slam dunks. Looking at you Herschel Walker and Dr. Oz.

Dems still lost the house.

fj1200
11-12-2024, 09:20 AM
Dems still lost the house.

Correct. But the red wave fizzled and normal gains were not realized. And it was all unnecessary. Maybe the ego driven BS will be gone next time round.

Kathianne
11-12-2024, 09:28 AM
Correct. But the red wave fizzled and normal gains were not realized. And it was all unnecessary. Maybe the ego driven BS will be gone next time round.

That means acknowledging that there were problems, preventable ones. That takes 'self-reflection' something most politicians and all narcissists seem constitutionally incapable of.

fj1200
11-12-2024, 10:24 AM
That means acknowledging that there were problems, preventable ones. That takes 'self-reflection' something most politicians and all narcissists seem constitutionally incapable of.

I'm seeing a glimmer of hope. :fingerscrossed:

Black Diamond
11-12-2024, 10:40 AM
I'm seeing a glimmer of hope. :fingerscrossed:

I think 47 is going to be quite different from 45.

Kathianne
11-12-2024, 10:46 AM
I think 47 is going to be quite different from 45.

Without a doubt he's learned a lot about DC. He's playing the process well thus far. Still lots of obstacles will be thrown in his path.

Gunny
11-12-2024, 05:17 PM
Without a doubt he's learned a lot about DC. He's playing the process well thus far. Still lots of obstacles will be thrown in his path.

Do you think? From what I can see, he's choosing loyalists over qualification for some of his picks.

What do you think about his call for recess appointments that are supposed to happen but don't?

Kathianne
11-12-2024, 07:43 PM
Do you think? From what I can see, he's choosing loyalists over qualification for some of his picks.

What do you think about his call for recess appointments that are supposed to happen but don't?

Only Trump was not able to get recess appointments. Schumer kept a fake senate in session going through all breaks. This is preventative.

SassyLady
11-12-2024, 09:27 PM
Do you think? From what I can see, he's choosing loyalists over qualification for some of his picks.

What do you think about his call for recess appointments that are supposed to happen but don't?
So a loyalist can't be qualified?

NightTrain
11-12-2024, 11:00 PM
Some things I'd like to see:

More powers returned to the states.

Congress taking back their powers from executive.

Working at some way to curtail executive orders-from a President that has used them to a great extent.

That's off the top of my head.


I think he leaned on EOs as much as he did because the dems were fighting him tooth and nail on everything... same as they will now, but with a lot less leverage on their part this time.

The media has destroyed themselves - that coverup of Biden was a real wake up call for Americans. Yes, all of us here discussed at length that he was obviously senile back in '21 but I think the majority of Americans dismissed it as sour grapes until the debate when it was undeniable. The Democrats and MSM wrecked their trustworthiness to the average non-political person over that.

The GOP has to hit the ground running and assume we won't have a trifecta in '26. We can fix this country in that amount of time if we all pull together, and I'm hoping that we don't end up identifying more RINOs sabotaging the effort.

Trump ran the table last Tuesday, hopefully that will snap a few backbiters still in office into line and make them play ball.

NightTrain
11-12-2024, 11:02 PM
Not seeing Trump being down with the last two. Maybe if he can time it for after he leaves office:laugh:

Seems to me the balance of power is out of whack in a couple of directions. All the lawfare, with more to come as announced by Dem governors, has given the judiciary way more power than it should have. I'm okay with EO's ONLY IF they are followed by legislation. That should be a prerequisite. Temporary bridge pending legislation.

Partisanship is killing all of it.


Right. EO to get the ball rolling and follow that up with legislation.

NightTrain
11-12-2024, 11:10 PM
I think 47 is going to be quite different from 45.


This will be much different. That learning curve from his first term was a real bitch, but those are the lessons best learned.

I haven't been this hopeful for meaningful change in government since... well, never. This has real potential to blow all of our minds.

SassyLady
11-13-2024, 12:49 AM
I think he leaned on EOs as much as he did because the dems were fighting him tooth and nail on everything... same as they will now, but with a lot less leverage on their part this time.

The media has destroyed themselves - that coverup of Biden was a real wake up call for Americans. Yes, all of us here discussed at length that he was obviously senile back in '21 but I think the majority of Americans dismissed it as sour grapes until the debate when it was undeniable. The Democrats and MSM wrecked their trustworthiness to the average non-political person over that.

The GOP has to hit the ground running and assume we won't have a trifecta in '26. We can fix this country in that amount of time if we all pull together, and I'm hoping that we don't end up identifying more RINOs sabotaging the effort.

Trump ran the table last Tuesday, hopefully that will snap a few backbiters still in office into line and make them play ball.

We will see if they learned their lesson when we see who they replace McConnell with.