North Korean troops seen being equipped in Russia ahead of likely deployment to Ukrai

[Gunny]

Russia calling the shots again. Russia can involve N Korea but Ukraine isn't allowed help or Putin will us nukes:rolleyes:

North Korean troops seen being equipped in Russia ahead of likely deployment to Ukraine | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/19/asia/north-korea-ukraine-russia-troops-uniform-intl/index.html)

[Gunny]

North Korea preparing to send 10,000 troops to Ukraine, says Zelensky (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4940790-north-korea-troops-ukraine-war/)

[fj1200]

Maybe not starve in a NK winter vs maybe not die in a Russian war.

Is Un sending the most loyal or the least loyal?

[Kathianne]

Maybe not starve in a NK winter vs maybe not die in a Russian war.

Is Un sending the most loyal or the least loyal?

To the NK soldiers, Russia is going to look like Paradise. Even bombed out Ukraine can probably provide more food than they're used to. I wonder how many will defect?

[fj1200]

To the NK soldiers, Russia is going to look like Paradise. Even bombed out Ukraine can probably provide more food than they're used to. I wonder how many will defect?

100% of those without family back home.

[Gunny]

Just read where 40 N Koreans got left alone on the line in Kursk by Russians so they just wandered off. Unfortunately for them, the Russians found them first, rounded them up, and are supposedly reinserting on the line further south.

They may as well desert or get killed. Based on performance, going back to N Korea isn't much of an option I suspect they'd look forward to. Un probably crapped his panties when he found out over loss of face. because he thinks he has some to lose:rolleyes:

[revelarts]

OK, so How many, U.S. mercenaries (all authorized by the State Dept), Mercenaries from European/NATO countries, U.S "Advisors", NATO "advisors" are in or helping Ukraine?
NATO training of Ukrainian Troops?

how much thinner do we want the ice?

From 2 years ago:
...The Ukrainian government has formally incorporated the International Legion of Defense of Ukraine into its armed forces. Thus, the Legion’s reported 20,000 foreign members—including 3,000 Americans—are not mercenaries under Article 47(2)....
https://lieber.westpoint.edu/are-mercenaries-in-ukraine/



from this year
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/foreign-fighters-ukraine/
Global Affairs Canada announced this week that a Canadian had died in Ukraine. Later reporting revealed that his name was Jean-Francois Ratelle and that he was a commander of the Norman Brigade, which, according to CTV News, is “a fighting force of volunteers from several different countries commanded by a CAF veteran who goes by ‘Hrulf.’”

Hrulf was Ratell’s call sign. But the news raises an important, and hard to answer question: How many Canadians, and indeed citizens of other Western countries, are there fighting the Russians in Ukraine?

The Canadian government says it does not track this figure, but in January 2023, the Ukrainian Foreign Legion said that Canadians were “one of the most numerous nationalities" fighting in Ukraine. CTV News says it was able to track “at least 18 Canadians who are, or were, in Ukraine as fighters or as part of humanitarian efforts.”...

...According to Defense Department documents leaked in March 2023, there were at that time at least 97 NATO special forces in Ukraine: 50 British, 17 Latvian, 15 French, 14 American and 1 Dutch. At the time, National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby refused to confirm the number but confirmed “a small U.S. military presence” there....


But but North Korea... how dare they!?

[Gunny]

OK, so How many, U.S. mercenaries (all authorized by the State Dept), Mercenaries from European/NATO countries, U.S "Advisors", NATO "advisors" are in or helping Ukraine?
NATO training of Ukrainian Troops?

how much thinner do we want the ice?

From 2 years ago:
...The Ukrainian government has formally incorporated the International Legion of Defense of Ukraine into its armed forces. Thus, the Legion’s reported 20,000 foreign members—including 3,000 Americans—are not mercenaries under Article 47(2)....
https://lieber.westpoint.edu/are-mercenaries-in-ukraine/



from this year
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/foreign-fighters-ukraine/
Global Affairs Canada announced this week that a Canadian had died in Ukraine. Later reporting revealed that his name was Jean-Francois Ratelle and that he was a commander of the Norman Brigade, which, according to CTV News, is “a fighting force of volunteers from several different countries commanded by a CAF veteran who goes by ‘Hrulf.’”

Hrulf was Ratell’s call sign. But the news raises an important, and hard to answer question: How many Canadians, and indeed citizens of other Western countries, are there fighting the Russians in Ukraine?

The Canadian government says it does not track this figure, but in January 2023, the Ukrainian Foreign Legion said that Canadians were “one of the most numerous nationalities" fighting in Ukraine. CTV News says it was able to track “at least 18 Canadians who are, or were, in Ukraine as fighters or as part of humanitarian efforts.”...

...According to Defense Department documents leaked in March 2023, there were at that time at least 97 NATO special forces in Ukraine: 50 British, 17 Latvian, 15 French, 14 American and 1 Dutch. At the time, National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby refused to confirm the number but confirmed “a small U.S. military presence” there....


But but North Korea... how dare they!?Mercenaries are individuals/groups, not Nations. HUGE difference. You have no argument. Again.

[Kathianne]

https://hotair.com/john-s-2/2024/10/25/what-the-fk-to-do-with-them-russian-troops-not-thrilled-with-north-korean-conscripts-n3796308


'What the F**k to do With Them?': Russian Troops Not Thrilled with North Korean ConscriptsJohn Sexton 7:20 PM | October 25, 2024



AP Photo/Kin Cheung
We've be hearing for a few days now that North Korean troops are now preparing to enter the battlefield against Ukraine. CNN reports on some audio intercepts which suggest the Russian troops aren't thrilled with their presence so far.


The Russian soldiers talk disdainfully about the incoming North Korean soldiers, codenamed the “K Battalion,” at one point referring to them as “the f**king Chinese.”


In the same extract, a serviceman describes another who has been tasked to “meet people.”


“And he’s like standing there with his eyes out, like… f**k,” the soldier says. “He came here and says what the f**k to do with them.”


Another concern seems to be who will command them, especially given that none of these troops speak Russian.


The intercepts also reveal plans to have one interpreter and three senior officers for every 30 North Korean men, which the Russian soldiers are heard in the audio condemning.


“The only thing I don’t understand is that there [should be] three senior officers for 30 people. Where do we get them? We’ll have to pull them out,” one Russian serviceman says.


So what happens if the translator is hit? Apparently that whole unit is reduced to sign language. There's also a story floating around suggesting lack of leadership has already been a serious problem.


The Suspiline news outlet, citing Ukrainian intelligence sources, reported that 18 North Korean soldiers fled their positions somewhere on the border between the Bryansk and Kursk regions of Russia, just 7 kilometers (4.4 miles) from the state border with Ukraine.


The source said the reason for them absenting themselves is not known but it said Russian forces were currently hunting them while the commanders in the area were trying to cover up the incident and to hide it from higher command.


I've seen different comments on this. Some say the soldiers had been left alone with no food for days and wandered off to find something to eat. Others claimed maybe they'd seen enough of the Russian Army to want to head home. Whatever the case, this doesn't seem to be off to a great start.


There's also a video circulating which allegedly was put out by the Ukrainians offering safety and regular meals to defectors. Given where these soldiers came from, that might be a compelling offer to a lot of them. Why fight and possibly die only to be returned to a land of starving people if you could just defect? Presumably some of these soldiers have families back home that they care about but probably not all of them. Anyway, we may find at fairly soon how they perform. They were supposedly going to start moving into position in Kursk this week.

[Gunny]

https://hotair.com/john-s-2/2024/10/25/what-the-fk-to-do-with-them-russian-troops-not-thrilled-with-north-korean-conscripts-n3796308I will be surprised if the N Korean commies get put on the line with the Russian ones. Not that I expect common sense and/or sound tactics from Russia, but you can't just drop off troops and expect them to integrate.

What they can do is fill support roles that frees up more Russian cannon fodder. Was it me, I would use them as a unit to try and take back Kursk as it is not part of the main front. That would minimize the language and structural differences. WWII allies did not fight as integrated armies as doctrine. Sectors/roles/responsibilities were assigned to each in compliment of one another.

Then again, from looking at current Russian strategy and tactics, they haven't changed one it since WWII. Throw bodies at Ukraine until Ukraine runs out of bodies. Still, to use N Koreans as cannon fodder you need command and control. Easier done the way I suggested. Otherwise, there's a language and training problem.

[fj1200]

https://hotair.com/john-s-2/2024/10/25/what-the-fk-to-do-with-them-russian-troops-not-thrilled-with-north-korean-conscripts-n3796308


Why fight and possibly die only to be returned to a land of starving people if you could just defect? Presumably some of these soldiers have families back home that they care about but probably not all of them.

Hmmm, someone's been reading my posts. hotair owes me a check. :poke:


Maybe not starve in a NK winter vs maybe not die in a Russian war.


100% of those without family back home.

[revelarts]

https://asiatimes.com/2024/10/west-needs-to-realize-ukraine-cannot-defeat-russia/

West needs to realize Ukraine cannot defeat Russia
Best the West can do is help Kiev negotiate a secure post-war future and devise a pragmatic strategy for handling Russia

A friend of mine, usually an intensely optimistic pro-Ukraine analyst, returned from Ukraine last week and told me: “It’s like the German Army in January 1945.”

The Ukrainians are being driven back on all fronts – including in the Kursk province of Russia, which they had opened with much hope and fanfare in August. More importantly, they are running out of soldiers.

For most of 2024, Ukraine has been losing ground. This week, the town of Selidove in the western Donetsk region is being surrounded and, like Vuhledar earlier this month, is likely to fall in the next week or so – the only variable being how many Ukrainians will be lost in the process. Over the winter, the terrible prospect of a major battle to hold the strategically significant industrial town of Pokrovsk beckons.

Ultimately, this is not a war of territory but of attrition. The only resource that counts is soldiers – and here the calculus for Ukraine is not positive.

Ukraine claims to have “liquidated” nearly 700,000 Russian soldiers – with more than 120,000 killed and upwards of 500,000 injured. Its president, Volodymyr Zelensky, admitted in February this year to 31,000 Ukrainian fatalities, with no figure given for injured.

The problem is these Ukrainian totals are apparently believed by Western officials, when the reality is likely to be very different. US sources say the war has seen 1 million people killed and wounded on both sides. Crucially, this includes a growing number of Ukrainian civilians.

Low morale and desertion, as well as draft-dodging, are now significant problems for Ukraine. These factors are exacerbating already serious recruitment issues, making it hard to supply the front lines with fresh troops.

A dreadful debate is taking place in Ukraine. The question revolves around whether to mobilize – and risk serious casualties to – the 18-25 age group. Due to economic pressures in the early 2000s, Ukraine suffered a major drop in its birth rate, leaving relatively few people now aged between 15 and 25.

Mobilization and serious attrition of this group may be something Ukraine simply can’t afford, given the already serious demographic crisis the country faces.

And even if this mobilization does go ahead, by the time the necessary politics, legislation, bureaucracy and training have run their course, the war may be over.

History knows of no example where taking on Russia in an attritional contest has proved successful. Let’s be clear: this means there is a real possibility of defeat – there is no sugar-coating this....

[Gunny]

https://asiatimes.com/2024/10/west-needs-to-realize-ukraine-cannot-defeat-russia/

West needs to realize Ukraine cannot defeat Russia
Best the West can do is help Kiev negotiate a secure post-war future and devise a pragmatic strategy for handling Russia
A friend of mine, usually an intensely optimistic pro-Ukraine analyst, returned from Ukraine last week and told me: “It’s like the German Army in January 1945.”

The Ukrainians are being driven back on all fronts – including in the Kursk province of Russia, which they had opened with much hope and fanfare in August. More importantly, they are running out of soldiers.

For most of 2024, Ukraine has been losing ground. This week, the town of Selidove in the western Donetsk region is being surrounded and, like Vuhledar earlier this month, is likely to fall in the next week or so – the only variable being how many Ukrainians will be lost in the process. Over the winter, the terrible prospect of a major battle to hold the strategically significant industrial town of Pokrovsk beckons.

Ultimately, this is not a war of territory but of attrition. The only resource that counts is soldiers – and here the calculus for Ukraine is not positive.

Ukraine claims to have “liquidated” nearly 700,000 Russian soldiers – with more than 120,000 killed and upwards of 500,000 injured. Its president, Volodymyr Zelensky, admitted in February this year to 31,000 Ukrainian fatalities, with no figure given for injured.

The problem is these Ukrainian totals are apparently believed by Western officials, when the reality is likely to be very different. US sources say the war has seen 1 million people killed and wounded on both sides. Crucially, this includes a growing number of Ukrainian civilians.

Low morale and desertion, as well as draft-dodging, are now significant problems for Ukraine. These factors are exacerbating already serious recruitment issues, making it hard to supply the front lines with fresh troops.

A dreadful debate is taking place in Ukraine. The question revolves around whether to mobilize – and risk serious casualties to – the 18-25 age group. Due to economic pressures in the early 2000s, Ukraine suffered a major drop in its birth rate, leaving relatively few people now aged between 15 and 25.

Mobilization and serious attrition of this group may be something Ukraine simply can’t afford, given the already serious demographic crisis the country faces.

And even if this mobilization does go ahead, by the time the necessary politics, legislation, bureaucracy and training have run their course, the war may be over.

History knows of no example where taking on Russia in an attritional contest has proved successful. Let’s be clear: this means there is a real possibility of defeat – there is no sugar-coating this....


Not with a loser attitude like that. Have to wonder where that defeatist bullshit comes from. Surrendering first, find out why and what later:rolleyes: Ukraine never could defeat Russia on its own. Known fact before anyone extended a helping hand.

HOWEVER, if Russia cannot be beaten in a war of attrition, then why is Putin importing North Koreans? Another fact is, his industry is failing and cannot keep up with the war due to a manpower shortage. He can put people on the line, or building weapons, not both.

Europe CAN BE taken down one country at a time, proven throughout history. The only real question here is where does Europe want to make its stand? Ukraine? Or Western Europe?

Of a bigger concern that DOES affect the US regardless who doesn't like hearing it is that little troll in N Korea is setting himself up to drag Russia into a war on the Korean peninsula. He is more than unstable and delusional enough to start WWIII just because he can.