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Kathianne
10-04-2024, 05:53 PM
It's coming, what will they do? I've already said, IMO regime and nukes:

https://hotair.com/david-strom/2024/10/04/israel-should-strike-nuclear-sites-in-iran-not-energy-infrastructure-n3795396


Israel Should Strike Nuclear Sites in Iran, Not Energy InfrastructureDavid Strom 6:00 PM | October 04, 2024



AP Photo/Charlie Riedel, File
Ed and I discussed this in our Week in Review podcast that was published earlier today, but I thought it deserved a post as well since our non-VIP readers could get a bit of our wisdom.


President Biden has sent a clear signal to Israel that he doesn't want it to strike at Iran's nuclear weapons development facilities, but signaled that hitting Iran's oil facilities would be an acceptable response to Iran's ballistic missile attack.




As is so often the case, Biden is 100% wrong. Biden is always wrong, so that is no surprise.


Here's why:


Netanyahu has made it very clear that his fight is not with the people of Iran, who are groaning under the Islamist regime's tyranny, but with the regime itself. That, alone, might be a good reason to avoid hitting the oil infrastructure because it will impose a high cost to the civilians, although it would also harm the regime. It would not be immoral to take those facilities out, but it is not the best choice for them.




Netanyahu is aiming for regime change in Iran, not to create pain for civilians in retaliation. He may have to settle for hitting those sites, but they are far from the best choice.


The oil facilities are not a threat to Israel, except as a source of funding that could be cut off by other means. Trump did it, nearly bankrupting the regime. Biden has allowed Iran to profit off its oil production, and if he actually wanted to help Israel he would turn the profit spigot off.


Obviously.


The refineries certainly provide energy for the regime, but most of the fuel goes to civilians. The regime will do fine regardless, but civilians would be hurt disproportionately. If Israel wants to spark a backlash against the regime and support its opponents, it would probably be counterproductive to hit these facilities.


The nuclear sites, though, ARE a threat to Israel and her Arab neighbors, who would also be thrilled to see them gone. The Arab countries have signaled support for Israel or remained silent, which is a signal itself. They hate Iran as much as Israel, just as they hate Hamas and Hezbollah. They are among the least critical of Israel compared to the UN and Europe. They make a few noises and grunts but obviously would love to see Iran and its proxies destroyed.


Hitting the nuclear facilities--if they seriously damage them--would be a huge blow to the Iranian regime. Hitting Iran's leadership would be a death blow, and many Persians would take the opportunity to take down the evil regime.


Israel should take out the threats, not take revenge. Revenge doesn't change the strategic situation. It might be satisfying but not especially productive.


Of course, the most obvious reason to do this is that Joe Biden tells them not to--Biden hasn't been right about foreign policy once in his lifetime.

Gunny
10-04-2024, 07:17 PM
It's coming, what will they do? I've already said, IMO regime and nukes:

https://hotair.com/david-strom/2024/10/04/israel-should-strike-nuclear-sites-in-iran-not-energy-infrastructure-n3795396I agree. Makes perfect sense. With the exception of taking out Iran's government.

I have zero problem with taking out Iran's government EXCEPT there needs to be a reasonable replacement. "The devil you know ..". Last time Iran's government got taken out they ended up with current. More of the same or worse hardly seems worth the effort.

Destroying its nuclear facilities would however if nothing else buy time. We are sorely in need of time while we search and wait for a President with a functioning brain.

Kathianne
10-04-2024, 07:26 PM
I agree. Makes perfect sense. With the exception of taking out Iran's government.

I have zero problem with taking out Iran's government EXCEPT there needs to be a reasonable replacement. "The devil you know ..". Last time Iran's government got taken out they ended up with current. More of the same or worse hardly seems worth the effort.

Destroying its nuclear facilities would however if nothing else buy time. We are sorely in need of time while we search and wait for a President with a functioning brain.

If the nukes are gone and Khomeini on shaky ground, the people will take care of the rest, they were poised to do so and Obama screwed them. Many were neutralized.

Gunny
10-05-2024, 10:24 AM
If the nukes are gone and Khomeini on shaky ground, the people will take care of the rest, they were poised to do so and Obama screwed them. Many were neutralized.Don't know. You have WAY more faith in the Iranian people than I. Are Palestinians, Yemeni's, Iraqi's, Syrians and Lebanese the example? That shoe could fall the other way.

It's still armed government vs mostly unarmed populace.

What we have to gain from any of it is keeping an extremist Islamic regime from nuclear weapons. Otherwise, the US isn't going to win any popularity contests in Iran regardless who is claiming power.

Kathianne
10-05-2024, 10:33 AM
Don't know. You have WAY more faith in the Iranian people than I. Are Palestinians, Yemeni's, Iraqi's, Syrians and Lebanese the example? That shoe could fall the other way.

It's still armed government vs mostly unarmed populace.

What we have to gain from any of it is keeping an extremist Islamic regime from nuclear weapons. Otherwise, the US isn't going to win any popularity contests in Iran regardless who is claiming power.
Obama abandoned and left vulnerable both Iranians and Lebanese. He paved the way for what is now facing Israel and possible WWIII.

Gunny
10-05-2024, 11:04 AM
Obama abandoned and left vulnerable both Iranians and Lebanese. He paved the way for what is now facing Israel and possible WWIII.Goes back further than Obama. Everything currently Iran began in 1979 with Carter. Rightly, the second they touched the US Embassy he should have declared war. Much like now though, the military was woefully inadequately prepared, even had Carter the will. Not to mention we WERE backing an unpopular regime. Which makes the point that Iranians wanted change and the mindset of anything was better than the Shah got them where they are today.

Probably get shot for this but, as much I liked Ronald Reagan, he balked in Lebanon. That was another instance of the US stepping in and stopping Israel from finishing the job. By all rights we could have, and should have IMO after the barracks bombing, told Israel "hold my beer" and wiped those fire ants off the map.

Inaction on the part of the PC, "kinder, gentler US" has brought us to where we are. Nothing in history has every stopped militant Muslim expansion but brute force. They are more trouble than they're worth.

Kathianne
10-05-2024, 11:08 AM
Goes back further than Obama. Everything currently Iran began in 1979 with Carter. Rightly, the second they touched the US Embassy he should have declared war. Much like now though, the military was woefully inadequately prepared, even had Carter the will. Not to mention we WERE backing an unpopular regime. Which makes the point that Iranians wanted change and the mindset of anything was better than the Shah got them where they are today.

Probably get shot for this but, as much I liked Ronald Reagan, he balked in Lebanon. That was another instance of the US stepping in and stopping Israel from finishing the job. By all rights we could have, and should have IMO after the barracks bombing, told Israel "hold my beer" and wiped those fire ants off the map.

Inaction on the part of the PC, "kinder, gentler US" has brought us to where we are. Nothing in history has every stopped militant Muslim expansion but brute force. They are more trouble than they're worth.

I certainly do NOT disagree with you regarding the past. I am focused on Obama because in that time; with the level of preparedness; with the lessons of 9/11, Obama should have acted. One cannot duck actions today, because of inactions or actions of the past.

https://www.iranintl.com/en/202210150760

https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/michael-oren-obama-rejected-iran-green-revolution-for-nuclear-deal-522585

Gunny
10-05-2024, 11:37 AM
I certainly do NOT disagree with you regarding the past. I am focused on Obama because in that time; with the level of preparedness; with the lessons of 9/11, Obama should have acted. One cannot duck actions today, because of inactions or actions of the past.

https://www.iranintl.com/en/202210150760

https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/michael-oren-obama-rejected-iran-green-revolution-for-nuclear-deal-522585Obama enabled Iran more than anything else. Money. Freed terrorists in a one-sided hostage swap. Making a stupid nuclear arms deal nobody thought would work and even Obama knew it wouldn't. Delaying the inevitable. I certainly don't look to him to have been the answer to anything in the best interest of the US. He's one of those backwards-thinkers that hates America's successes. He did and is still doing everything he can to undermine that.

I go back as far as I do because I said THEN we would pay for our inaction/ass-kissing later. Lo and behold. Grim Reaper at the door:rolleyes:

My primary concern with Iran is and has been nuclear weapons and we have sat and watched while they have kept on keeping on. Iran becomes far less a threat to the World without them. Need to go after their missile manufacturing as well. If that gets Iranians to killing each other, all the better.

Kathianne
10-05-2024, 11:43 AM
Obama enabled Iran more than anything else. Money. Freed terrorists in a one-sided hostage swap. Making a stupid nuclear arms deal nobody thought would work and even Obama knew it wouldn't. Delaying the inevitable. I certainly don't look to him to have been the answer to anything in the best interest of the US. He's one of those backwards-thinkers that hates America's successes. He did and is still doing everything he can to undermine that.

I go back as far as I do because I said THEN we would pay for our inaction/ass-kissing later. Lo and behold. Grim Reaper at the door:rolleyes:

My primary concern with Iran is and has been nuclear weapons and we have sat and watched while they have kept on keeping on. Iran becomes far less a threat to the World without them. Need to go after their missile manufacturing as well. If that gets Iranians to killing each other, all the better.

Yep, exactly what I said. Obama enriched Iran to continue their nuke project, then Biden restarted the plan. The reason I brought up the Green Revolution movement is that Obama left those people hanging, when they could have been at the forefront of a different ME tone, not democracies of course. Obama basically metaphorically nuked the chance of less than war.