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Kathianne
09-01-2024, 09:48 AM
Not good, there are lots of links at site, but going to be military related would be my guess:

https://news.usni.org/2024/08/31/chinese-vessels-ram-surround-philippine-coast-guard-flagship-in-south-china-sea


Chinese Vessels Ram, Surround Philippine Coast Guard Flagship in South China SeaAaron-Matthew Lariosa
August 31, 2024 3:56 PM


A China Coast Guard vessel rams Philippine Coast Guard flagship BRP Teresa Magbanua (MRRV-9701) on Aug. 31, 2024. Philippine Coast Guard Photo
Chinese forces surrounded and rammed the flagship of the Philippine Coast Guard today at Escoda Shoal in the seventh scuffle this month between Beijing and Manila in the South China Sea.


BRP Teresa Magbanua (MRRV-9701), the Philippine Coast Guard’s flagship and largest patrol ship, was rammed three times by China Coast Guard vessel 5205 around noon. The collisions punched a hole in the Teresa Magbanua’s hull and caused other damage. Multiple Chinese vessels surrounded the 97-meter-long Japanese-made patrol ship, during the fracas, including two Type 837 tugs from the People’s Liberation Army Navy.




Images of the incident from the Philippine Coast Guard show the tugs positioned to the port and starboard sides of Teresa Magabanua. In prior incidents, including one on June 17th, Chinese forces have towed and pushed away Philippine vessels from disputed areas.


Ray Powell, director of the SeaLight Project at Stanford University’s Gordian Knot Center for National Security Innovation, told USNI News that this is the first time he has seen Chinese forces deploy tugs to Escoda. While Powell acknowledged speculation that the tugs were there to push or tow Teresa Magbanua from the shoal, he was unsure “how they would accomplish this unless the ship was first somehow disabled.”


Contrary to the Philippines’ media release, Chinese state media claims that the Philippine Coast Guard caused the incident. A video released by the China Coast Guard claimed that the Philippines “deliberately rammed” their vessel, despite the footage showing the collision occurring on Teresa Magbanua’s stern.


Despite the incident, Manila resolved that it would keep its Coast Guard flagship at Escoda and reiterated its call for restraint from China on the water and in the air in the South China Sea. “We will not succumb to acts of harassment and aggressive behavior,” said a statement from the National Maritime Council.


The flagship of the Philippine Coast Guard has been locked in a standoff with vessels from the China Coast Guard, People’s Liberation Army Navy and China Maritime Militia since arriving at Escoda in April. Manila sent the Coast Guard’s flagship following concerns of a Chinese land reclamation attempt at the maritime feature similar to those seen at Mischief and Subi Reefs, which are now full-fledged military bases. In recent weeks, incidents around Escoda have increased at an alarming frequency, including the ramming of three ships and the blocking of a Philippine resupply mission to the shoal. While Manila was able to resupply Teresa Magbanua with a Coast Guard helicopter on Wednesday, the China Coast Guard warned that further resupply trips by planes or boats could cause future incidents.


China also blockaded a Philippine resupply mission and rammed three Philippine ships in August across the disputed region that China claims under the Ten-Dash Line. There were also three disputed aerial incidents.


As maritime, and aerial disputes step up, the Philippines has expanded its cooperation with old and new partners. Powell noted that these “brazen displays of violence” by China have “succeeded only in uniting its opponents and awakening them to their peril.”


On Friday, Philippine and Vietnamese officials met in Manila and committed to ink a defense agreement before the year’s end. Indo-Pacific Command leadership also visited the Philippines this week for talks about upcoming military exercises and defense exchanges with Washington’s oldest treaty ally in the region. During his visit, Adm. Paparo told reporters that the escort of Philippine vessels in the South China Sea by U.S. forces was an option. However, Armed Forces of the Philippines chief Romeo Brawner stated that Manila would only take up the offer if unilateral efforts failed.

Gunny
09-01-2024, 10:23 AM
Not good, there are lots of links at site, but going to be military related would be my guess:

https://news.usni.org/2024/08/31/chinese-vessels-ram-surround-philippine-coast-guard-flagship-in-south-china-seaJust waiting and watching on this one. Cina has decided to bully PI vessels when and wherever found. It won't end until they are stopped by force.

PI and US already talking about invoking mutual assistance treaty with US. So far, PI has resisted, trying to handle it themselves and not escalate the situation. Just a matter of time, IMO.

Kathianne
09-01-2024, 10:43 AM
Just waiting and watching on this one. Cina has decided to bully PI vessels when and wherever found. It won't end until they are stopped by force.

PI and US already talking about invoking mutual assistance treaty with US. So far, PI has resisted, trying to handle it themselves and not escalate the situation. Just a matter of time, IMO.
If I'm reading this correctly, Vietnam has signed something with Philippines, much to same point? Not surprised at Philippines trying anything, but got to say if reading right, Vietnam is a shock.

Gunny
09-01-2024, 10:53 AM
If I'm reading this correctly, Vietnam has signed something with Philippines, much to same point? Not surprised at Philippines trying anything, but got to say if reading right, Vietnam is a shock.

IIRC, most nations that China is trying to edge out of South China Sea have expressed interest. Vietnam has even met with US on the issue. Not sure anything ironclad came out of it. Vietnam has a self-interest in the matter.

Kathianne
09-01-2024, 11:00 AM
IIRC, most nations that China is trying to edge out of South China Sea have expressed interest. Vietnam has even met with US on the issue. Not sure anything ironclad came out of it. Vietnam has a self-interest in the matter.

I recognize the self-interest of VN, thought though that commitment to China would overcome self-interest. Oh from OP:


...On Friday, Philippine and Vietnamese officials met in Manila and committed to ink a defense agreement before the year’s end. Indo-Pacific Command leadership also visited the Philippines this week for talks about upcoming military exercises and defense exchanges with Washington’s oldest treaty ally in the region. During his visit, Adm. Paparo told reporters that the escort of Philippine vessels in the South China Sea by U.S. forces was an option. However, Armed Forces of the Philippines chief Romeo Brawner stated that Manila would only take up the offer if unilateral efforts failed.

Gunny
09-01-2024, 11:47 AM
I recognize the self-interest of VN, thought though that commitment to China would overcome self-interest. Oh from OP:

You're stretching my memory here :) I don't recall Vietnam and China ever being what one would call friendly. When Russia and China fell out, and Russian support for Vietnam during the war dropped off, China filled the void because it was against us, not because it supported Vietnam. Since then they were engaged in at least one border clash of arms what with China claiming some of everyone's land that borders it.

China has historically dominated or tried to dominate Vietnam and the Vietnamese are as wary of China as anyone. Trade with China to them is probably akin to trade with us. Self-interest, sleeping with one eye open. It's easier to get along with the guy next door, but China's overreach affects anyone with legal claim to territorial waters.

Then there is political perception. Signing an agreement with PI puts Vietnam de facto under the US defense umbrella by default, without Vietnam having to officially make any agreement with the US.

Kathianne
09-01-2024, 11:52 AM
You're stretching my memory here :) I don't recall Vietnam and China ever being what one would call friendly. When Russia and China fell out, and Russian support for Vietnam during the war dropped off, China filled the void because it was against us, not because it supported Vietnam. Since then they were engaged in at least one border clash of arms what with China claiming some of everyone's land that borders it.

China has historically dominated or tried to dominate Vietnam and the Vietnamese are as wary of China as anyone. Trade with China to them is probably akin to trade with us. Self-interest, sleeping with one eye open. It's easier to get along with the guy next door, but China's overreach affects anyone with legal claim to territorial waters.

Then there is political perception. Signing an agreement with PI puts Vietnam de facto under the US defense umbrella by default, without Vietnam having to officially make any agreement with the US.

Thanks! I seem to have misremembered the end of war.

Gunny
09-01-2024, 12:28 PM
Thanks! I seem to have misremembered the end of war.I cannot say I am completely up to snuff of China-Vietnam relations post-Vietnam War. I'm sure we remember things differently, I being a military brat from beginning to end. The war had a direct effect on my and all of my friends' lives. Not real keen on getting all the blame when the US's initial role was as a UN peacekeeping force to replace the French until elections could be held. Yeah, LB was a better tomato farmer and Senator than President, but fact remains we got stuck with a UN/France hand off.

Anyway China–Vietnam relations - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Vietnam_relations)

It appears it's more or less what I said. Frenemies.

fj1200
09-02-2024, 06:04 PM
I would only add that I think Vietnam is benefitting from the anti-China rhetoric going on over here.