PDA

View Full Version : Remember When ACLU Was For Civil Rights?



Kathianne
08-17-2024, 09:31 AM
BTW which includes the 1st? DEI seems to have changed that, but a lawsuit, nonprofit, and a judge are reminding them:

https://hotair.com/john-s-2/2024/08/16/aclu-ordered-to-reinstate-worker-accused-of-using-dangerous-language-n3793270


ACLU Ordered to Reinstate Worker Accused of Using 'Dangerous' LanguageJohn Sexton 9:20 PM | August 16, 2024



Dave Killen/The Oregonian via AP
Back in March the NY Times reported on the ACLU's firing of Kate Oh. Oh was reportedly difficult to work with, especially from the perspective of her supervisors whom she repeatedly criticized and accused of creating a hostile working environment. Some but not all of the supervisors she criticized were black and that apparently gave the organization an excuse to fire her even though she had never used any racial slurs.


The A.C.L.U. acknowledges that Ms. Oh, who is Korean American, never used any kind of racial slur. But the group says that her use of certain phrases and words demonstrated a pattern of willful anti-Black animus.


In one instance, according to court documents, she told a Black superior that she was “afraid” to talk with him. In another, she told a manager that their conversation was “chastising.” And in a meeting, she repeated a satirical phrase likening her bosses’ behavior to suffering “beatings.”


What she actually wrote was "beatings will continue until morale improves" which is a very old joke about bad bosses. But the ACLU's DEI officers warned her such language was "dangerous and damaging."


In court the ACLU made a different argument. It didn't matter if Oh's comments had a racist intent, only if they were perceived that way by her superiors.


A lawyer representing the A.C.L.U., Ken Margolis, said during a legal proceeding last year that it was irrelevant whether Ms. Oh bore no racist ill will. All that mattered, he said, was that her Black colleagues were offended and injured.


“We’re not here to prove anything other than the impact of her actions was very real — that she caused harm,” Mr. Margolis said, according to a transcript of his remarks. “She caused serious harm to Black members of the A.C.L.U. community.”


This is the sort of argument you hear 15-year-old social justice warriors make on X. If someone feels bad about what you said, you should be punished for saying it whether it was objectively racist or not. And it's especially dumb in this case because when Oh made the remark about "beatings" it was at a meeting called after the group's national political director, who was one of Oh's supervisors, had left the group after complaints from multiple employees. In other words, she wasn't alone in feeling that some of her supervisors made the office unpleasant.


Oh later called her direct supervisor a liar and told the supervisor above that that she was afraid to meet with him. He took offense to that saying it was akin to suggesting he was dangerous because he was black.


The final straw came after Oh called the message from the DEI director "chastising." And because she too was black, it was seen as more anti-black rhetoric.


“Calling my check-in ‘chastising’ or ‘reprimanding’ feels like a willful mischaracterization in order to continue the stream of anti-Black rhetoric you’ve been using throughout the organization,” Ms. Hikes wrote in an email.


“I’m hopeful you’ll consider the lived experiences and feelings of those you work with,” she added.


Well, a judge looked at all of this and last week concluded that the ACLU would have to get over its hurt feelings and reinstate Kate Oh with two years of backpay and money to cover any job search she has made in the interim.


Michael A. Rosas, an administrative law judge, said that the A.C.L.U.’s accusation that she had targeted people of color “is not borne out by the facts.” He noted that her complaints were not about colleagues but superiors within the organization, and that she had also complained about white managers...


The judge ordered the A.C.L.U. to reinstate Ms. Oh, who was fired in May 2022, and to give her back pay.


Ms. Oh said the ruling sent a message that “no one is above the law,” according to a statement she issued through the Nonprofit Professional Employees Union, which represented her. That includes, Ms. Oh added, “powerful management officials claiming to champion civil liberties with their words while illegally doing the opposite with their actions.”


Of course the ACLU is planning to appeal so we'll have to wait and see if the ACLU is forced to follow through. But for now it's an embarrassing spectacle and a reminder that DEI is a plague which will only lead to more lawsuits.

Gunny
08-17-2024, 10:36 AM
BTW which includes the 1st? DEI seems to have changed that, but a lawsuit, nonprofit, and a judge are reminding them:

https://hotair.com/john-s-2/2024/08/16/aclu-ordered-to-reinstate-worker-accused-of-using-dangerous-language-n3793270


In court the ACLU made a different argument. It didn't matter if Oh's comments had a racist intent, only if they were perceived that way by her superiors.


A lawyer representing the A.C.L.U., Ken Margolis, said during a legal proceeding last year that it was irrelevant whether Ms. Oh bore no racist ill will. All that mattered, he said, was that her Black colleagues were offended and injured.

Horsefeathers:rolleyes:

Presumption of intent without evidence. Sounds real American. Free speech n all:rolleyes:

She should counter sue that the hostile environment she perceived was real and was due to her being Korean:rolleyes:

Kathianne
08-17-2024, 10:37 AM
Horsefeathers:rolleyes:

Presumption of intent without evidence. Sounds real American. Free speech n all:rolleyes:

She should counter sue that the hostile environment she perceived was due to her being Korean:rolleyes:
She already did sue and win!

Gunny
08-17-2024, 10:38 AM
She already did sue and win!Did I miss that? I don't read as fast as you and end up at times skimming trying to keep up :laugh:

Good for her.

Kathianne
08-17-2024, 10:44 AM
Did I miss that? I don't read as fast as you and end up at times skimming trying to keep up :laugh:

Good for her.

One of the advantages of not being able to hear, my interests do tend towards the solitary. ;)

Gunny
08-17-2024, 10:51 AM
One of the advantages of not being able to hear, my interests do tend towards the solitary. ;)LOL. For a long time I thought it was me:laugh:

The ACLU is probably the oldest bunch of lawyers who will sue for anything, real or perceived. I recall in the not so distant past one of its lawyers was representing a gun owner in one state, and some anti-gun crap in another. Theya re the living proof that the only ones who ever get rich in lawfare are lawyers. And THAT is all I think the ACLU actually stands for .

Kathianne
08-17-2024, 10:58 AM
LOL. For a long time I thought it was me:laugh:

The ACLU is probably the oldest bunch of lawyers who will sue for anything, real or perceived. I recall in the not so distant past one of its lawyers was representing a gun owner in one state, and some anti-gun crap in another. Theya re the living proof that the only ones who ever get rich in lawfare are lawyers. And THAT is all I think the ACLU actually stands for .

How they got to where they are? I've not a clue. I used to be dues paying, but that was when they were defending flag burning-of your own, not someone else's; and the Nazi's marching in Skokie.

Now you all know me, I'm certainly NOT in favor of burning the flag-but I'll defend your right to do so. OTOH, I'll shed no tears if someone finds a way of expressing themselves in a way that causes non-permanent pain.

The best way to protect the Jews or anyone else, is by protecting our rights and those of others.

The ACLU doesn't stand for those things anymore.

Gunny
08-17-2024, 11:04 AM
How they got to where they are? I've not a clue. I used to be dues paying, but that was when they were defending flag burning-of your own, not someone else's; and the Nazi's marching in Skokie.

Now you all know me, I'm certainly NOT in favor of burning the flag-but I'll defend your right to do so. OTOH, I'll shed no tears if someone finds a way of expressing themselves in a way that causes non-permanent pain.

The best way to protect the Jews or anyone else, is by protecting our rights and those of others.

The ACLU doesn't stand for those things anymore.I don't recall why, but I have always had the perception that the ACLU was communist and started by American communists way back when. Commies aren't exactly popular in my family :)

Kathianne
08-17-2024, 11:09 AM
I don't recall why, but I have always had the perception that the ACLU was communist and started by American communists way back when. Commies aren't exactly popular in my family :)

I've no doubt that communists would have been involved, as many feel that 'our rights' are the quickest way to undermine the stability of the country. I don't agree with that, as long as there is due process and a basically fair system. THAT is now under review, imo.

Gunny
08-17-2024, 11:46 AM
I've no doubt that communists would have been involved, as many feel that 'our rights' are the quickest way to undermine the stability of the country. I don't agree with that, as long as there is due process and a basically fair system. THAT is now under review, imo.

But one cannot ignore the fact that our Rights have been used against us to drag society down. Especially when government is comprised of self-serving individuals looking for popularity and reelection who cater to the loud, aberrant minorities rather than the majority and/or what is best for the Nation and society as a whole in the long term, amplified by an immoral/amoral MSM that would try to convince the blind they need glasses to make a sale.

Kathianne
08-17-2024, 11:54 AM
But one cannot ignore the fact that our Rights have been used against us to drag society down. Especially when government is comprised of self-serving individuals looking for popularity and reelection who cater to the loud, aberrant minorities rather than the majority and/or what is best for the Nation and society as a whole in the long term, amplified by an immoral/amoral MSM that would try to convince the blind they need glasses to make a sale.

When the majority are not educated in the form of government we've inherited, along withe the rights and responsibilities, it will be lost.

Gunny
08-17-2024, 12:35 PM
When the majority are not educated in the form of government we've inherited, along withe the rights and responsibilities, it will be lost.

I think we're too far under to right the ship. The first requirement for that to happen is the People have to want it. Sees they'd rather be sheep.

Kathianne
08-17-2024, 12:49 PM
I think we're too far under to right the ship. The first requirement for that to happen is the People have to want it. Sees they'd rather be sheep.
I disagree. The first requirement is to be taught, not one baby or toddler or 2nd grader is thirsting for political knowledge. They are attracted to police/fire/trucks/sirens. Often they like watching road building, garbage trucks, traffic lights, etc.

Those 'helpers' and 'services' are the basics of civics for grades k-4. Grades 4-8 are about how we pay for those helpers and services and our responsibilities towards them and society as a whole. Grades 6-12 build on how the early explorers explored, exploited, and were exploited. How they discovered, set down colonies, communities, etc. How the new land eventually became colonies and territories, leading to clashes between both natives and European Powers. and on and on.

The more advanced the studies, the deeper one goes. Into political philosophies and the differences between federation/republics/democracies. The pros and cons and how our special system was developed. The men who came up with it, the machinations that were necessary to get there. And the problems with keeping our system.

That all is education-once understood one can truly argue for or against.

revelarts
08-21-2024, 12:39 PM
Remember When ACLU Was For Civil Rights?



https://youtu.be/8pcWlyUu8U4

Pepperidge Farms remembers

Gunny
08-21-2024, 01:47 PM
I disagree. The first requirement is to be taught, not one baby or toddler or 2nd grader is thirsting for political knowledge. They are attracted to police/fire/trucks/sirens. Often they like watching road building, garbage trucks, traffic lights, etc.

Those 'helpers' and 'services' are the basics of civics for grades k-4. Grades 4-8 are about how we pay for those helpers and services and our responsibilities towards them and society as a whole. Grades 6-12 build on how the early explorers explored, exploited, and were exploited. How they discovered, set down colonies, communities, etc. How the new land eventually became colonies and territories, leading to clashes between both natives and European Powers. and on and on.

The more advanced the studies, the deeper one goes. Into political philosophies and the differences between federation/republics/democracies. The pros and cons and how our special system was developed. The men who came up with it, the machinations that were necessary to get there. And the problems with keeping our system.

That all is education-once understood one can truly argue for or against.I don't disagree with the education. I think it ends with individual, personal interest though. It also matters who is doing the educating. I haven't see the government show any interest in any kind of education that is useful. It provides only what it wants to in order to achieve its ends. I don't see intelligent people being on its agenda. Those people question what oveent is doing. Can't have that.

Kathianne
08-21-2024, 05:51 PM
I don't disagree with the education. I think it ends with individual, personal interest though. It also matters who is doing the educating. I haven't see the government show any interest in any kind of education that is useful. It provides only what it wants to in order to achieve its ends. I don't see intelligent people being on its agenda. Those people question what oveent is doing. Can't have that.

You're making my points here and on 'by design ' thread. Where once students were inculcated in 'being good citizens' they are now spending that teaching time on what the now prioritize, call it DEI or green death or whatever. Obviously some are now spending considerable time on teaching how evil the jews are.

Gunny
08-21-2024, 06:21 PM
You're making my points here and on 'by design ' thread. Where once students were inculcated in 'being good citizens' they are now spending that teaching time on what the now prioritize, call it DEI or green death or whatever. Obviously some are now spending considerable time on teaching how evil the jews are.

:)