China And The US: Sleepwalking Towards War

[Kathianne]

Very good article, lots of comparisons between pre-WWI Britain and Germany:

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/china/sleepwalking-toward-war-united-states?utm_medium=newsletters&utm_source=twofa&utm_campaign=Sleepwalking%20Toward%20War&utm_content=20240614&utm_term=EWZZZ003ZX

[Gunny]

Very good article, lots of comparisons between pre-WWI Britain and Germany:

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/china/sleepwalking-toward-war-united-states?utm_medium=newsletters&utm_source=twofa&utm_campaign=Sleepwalking%20Toward%20War&utm_content=20240614&utm_term=EWZZZ003ZX

I really like this site. I posted something from it a week or two ago.

[Kathianne]

I really like this site. I posted something from it a week or two ago.

I'm pondering a subscription, had one years ago. Cheaper than WSJ. LOL!

[revelarts]

I really like this site. I posted something from it a week or two ago.


I'm pondering a subscription, had one years ago. Cheaper than WSJ. LOL!

FYI
Foreign Affairs often has very real info, but know your source.
Understand where they want you to go.

About Foreign Affairs
Since its founding in 1922, Foreign Affairs has been the leading forum for serious discussion of American foreign policy and global affairs. It is now a multiplatform media organization with a print magazine, a website, a mobile site, various apps and social media feeds, an event business, and more. Foreign Affairs is published by the Council on Foreign Relations (http://www.cfr.org/) (CFR), a non-profit and nonpartisan membership organization dedicated to improving the understanding of U.S. foreign policy and international affairs through the free exchange of ideas. ...
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/about-foreign-affairs

"The ultimate aim of the CFR (Council on Foreign Relations) is to create a one-world socialist system, and to make the U.S. an official part of it."
Dan Smoot -Former FBI



https://www.azquotes.com/public/picture_quotes/2a/24/2a2446e76742f8cee88b7f9b70c361cd/hillary-clinton-679709.jpg

[Kathianne]

FYI
Foreign Affairs often has very real info, but know your source.
Understand where they want you to go.
About Foreign Affairs
Since its founding in 1922, Foreign Affairs has been the leading forum for serious discussion of American foreign policy and global affairs. It is now a multiplatform media organization with a print magazine, a website, a mobile site, various apps and social media feeds, an event business, and more. Foreign Affairs is published by the Council on Foreign Relations (http://www.cfr.org/) (CFR), a non-profit and nonpartisan membership organization dedicated to improving the understanding of U.S. foreign policy and international affairs through the free exchange of ideas. ...
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/about-foreign-affairs

"The ultimate aim of the CFR (Council on Foreign Relations) is to create a one-world socialist system, and to make the U.S. an official part of it."
Dan Smoot -Former FBI



https://www.azquotes.com/public/picture_quotes/2a/24/2a2446e76742f8cee88b7f9b70c361cd/hillary-clinton-679709.jpg

As it's always been. Funny thing, the State Department and related agencies hire folks that studied these issues and other countries/cultures. Some are better than others. When it comes to reading, I don't feel I have problems with discernment. Thanks for the warning. You might want to apply same to some of your sources.

[Black Diamond]

As it's always been. Funny thing, the State Department and related agencies hire folks that studied these issues and other countries/cultures. Some are better than others. When it comes to reading, I don't feel I have problems with discernment. Thanks for the warning. You might want to apply same to some of your sources.

:laugh:

[revelarts]

More CFR info , just for the record.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbnpN07J_zg


Also interesting is the history of the Rockefellers, China, Nixon & Kissinger.


https://asiasociety.org/about/background-history
https://asiasociety.org/blog/asia/tbt-chinese-president-jiang-zemin-meets-henry-kissinger-and-david-rockefeller-1995

[fj1200]

What are we to make of the CFR as it relates to the discussion re: US and China potential hostilities?

[revelarts]

What are we to make of the CFR as it relates to the discussion re: US and China potential hostilities?
make of it what you will.
or don't.

[fj1200]

make of it what you will.
or don't.

You seem to present things without context as the definitive word and we're silly for not recognizing the enormity of the information.

[revelarts]

You seem to present things without context as the definitive word and we're silly for not recognizing the enormity of the information.

I'm just presenting information.
Not saying it's "definitive" or all there is to know.
Never called anyone silly.
But it's not smart for me or you to ignore info just because you don't like the way... you think ... it's presented.

I'm not really going to argue the points anymore at DP, I'm just post ing info for folks to consider... or not.
There's info available out there to confirm or deny or give different takes. I'm just posting info thats not considered in the original article posted here.
How pertinent you think it is or isn't is up to u & others.
I'm not a China expert, but to me the broader history & relationships bear some consideration. Among many other factors I'm sure others are more familiar with than I am.

Concerning context of the earlier post.
The topic is war with China from a CFR article. I posted other Info about the CFR and its historical relationship and POV of China.

[fj1200]

I'm just presenting information.

I'm guessing that nobody cares. I don't care in the least unless the information is related to current events and how you think it adds to the conversation. I care not a whit what Hillary said a decade ago.

[SassyLady]

Some of us do care about history and how it seems to be repeating itself.

[Black Diamond]

Some of us do care about history and how it seems to be repeating itself.

How is it repeating itself?

[SassyLady]

How is it repeating itself?

Well .. for starters a new variant of a pandemic is trying to get leverage right before an election.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/07/public-health-officials-warn-human-plague-case-colorado/

But this topic should probably be in another thread.

[fj1200]

Well .. for starters a new variant of a pandemic is trying to get leverage right before an election.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/07/public-health-officials-warn-human-plague-case-colorado/

But this topic should probably be in another thread.

China doesn't seem to be mentioned in the article.

[SassyLady]

China doesn't seem to be mentioned in the article.

As I said probably should be in a different thread. The question was about how history repeats itself... this was just an example.

[Gunny]

How is it repeating itself?Most obvious? Everyone is marching to or preparing for war except us. We're sitting here on our arrogant asses deluding ourselves into believing the oceans still insulate us. In the meantime, we got a bunch of isolationists that think if we just suck everything into the borders of CONUS and abandon our allies who it is going to take to win the next war, that we can just pretend it's not happening. The same thing 1930's Republicans thought.

[Black Diamond]

Most obvious? Everyone is marching to or preparing for war except us. We're sitting here on our arrogant asses deluding ourselves into believing the oceans still insulate us. In the meantime, we got a bunch of isolationists that think if we just suck everything into the borders of CONUS and abandon our allies who it is going to take to win the next war, that we can just pretend it's not happening. The same thing 1930's Republicans thought.

I don't think that's what she had in mind.

[Gunny]

I don't think that's what she had in mind.Who? I responded to your question with historical fact. Can't speak for anyone else.

[SassyLady]

I don't think that's what she had in mind.

He gave an example with reference to war prep.

I gavevan example of history repeating itself to those who said unless it relates to current event no one cares

[Black Diamond]

Who? I responded to your question with historical fact. Can't speak for anyone else.

I asked sass why she thought history was repeating itself. She brought up another pandemic

[SassyLady]

I asked sass why she thought history was repeating itself. She brought up another pandemic

Because another pandemic right before an election leads to election interference and fraud. And look at the mess we are in now. Distract with a plandemic so DS can dig in deeper.

[fj1200]

^And when that doesn't happen?

[Gunny]

I asked sass why she thought history was repeating itself. She brought up another pandemicSafe bet since there have been pandemics as long as there has been people.

[Black Diamond]

Safe bet since there have been pandemics as long as there has been people.

She shared a link and she seems to be saying 2020 will repeat itself.

[Kathianne]

She shared a link and she seems to be saying 2020 will repeat itself.
Plague has been around for many years, it's in the soil. Pandemic numbers in 4 months would be a bit of something. Then of course, could turn to Dengue Fever (https://www.google.com/search?q=dengue+arizona&oq=dengue&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqDQgGEAAYkgMYgAQYigUyEggAEEUYOR iDARixAxjJAxiABDISCAEQABhDGIMBGLEDGIAEGIoFMhIIAhAA GEMYgwEYsQMYgAQYigUyEggDEAAYQxiDARixAxiABBiKBTIMCA QQABhDGIAEGIoFMg0IBRAAGIMBGLEDGIAEMg0IBhAAGJIDGIAE GIoFMg0IBxAAGIMBGLEDGIAEMg0ICBAAGIMBGLEDGIAEMgcICR AAGI8C0gEINzE1OWoxajeoAgiwAgE&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) as a backup. I put nothing past the Chinese and I do agree that at best this was an accident covered up by CCP or worse a bio-attack on the world.

This talk though, it's a weird type of political op.

[Gunny]

She shared a link and she seems to be saying 2020 will repeat itself.If 2020 repeats itself anytime soon how do you think that will go over? Forgotten will be the millions killed by COVID. Only the inconveniences have been remembered and focused on by the general public. I didn't die last time:rolleyes:

I'm guessing if a bio weapon is used anytime soon, more Americans will die this time than did last time because of that attitude.

[revelarts]

And of course if there is some bio-weapon virus attack, China will be the only source we should blame.
No one should consider any accidents or other governments ...foreign or domestic.
that'd be crazy talk.

•"- 1956: U.S. military releases mosquitoes infected with Yellow Fever over Savannah, Ga and Avon Park, Fl. Following each test, Army agents posing as public health officials test victims for effects."

•EPA oks plan release 24-million genetically modified mosquitoes - on Florida 2022
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/epa-oks-plan-release-24-million-genetically-modified-mosquitoes-rcna19738

•https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/28/bill-gates-released-swarming-mosquitoes-to-make-a-point-about-malaria.html
•https://www.gatesnotes.com/Mosquito-Factory

folks should keep an open mind.
Or just trust what the gov't says without question ...again.

[Black Diamond]

If 2020 repeats itself anytime soon how do you think that will go over? Forgotten will be the millions killed by COVID. Only the inconveniences have been remembered and focused on by the general public. I didn't die last time:rolleyes:

I'm guessing if a bio weapon is used anytime soon, more Americans will die this time than did last time because of that attitude.

I have imagined some nightmare scenarios. Because of some of the (some warranted imo) distrust of agencies and govt in general, in the event of a bio attack or pandemic worse then covid, the death toll could be staggering.

[Gunny]

I have imagined some nightmare scenarios. Because of some of the (some warranted imo) distrust of agencies and govt in general, in the event of a bio attack or pandemic worse then covid, the death toll could be staggering.

Exactly. Not to rehash the whole incident (again), but the fact remains COVID was/is real, regardless any personal choices made on handling it. And it killed millions for real. Can't get around that elephant in the room.

Since those who did decided to turn the whole thing political rather than just deal with the threat, the topic for the most part became about government, and immunizations not the actual danger. Moving right along, now it's all about the inconveniences and/or negative effects of lockdown. Which, were real, no question. All my logic can come up with is you aren't going to be inconvenienced or affected negatively much if you're dead.

I suspect if it happened again pretty much the same crap would happen with little deviation except for the number of people who just blow it off as been there done that.

And I don't have answers, just an opinion.

[revelarts]

Exactly. Not to rehash the whole incident (again), but the fact remains COVID was/is real, regardless any personal choices made on handling it. And it killed millions for real. Can't get around that elephant in the room.

Since those who did decided to turn the whole thing political rather than just deal with the threat, the topic for the most part became about government, and immunizations not the actual danger. Moving right along, now it's all about the inconveniences and/or negative effects of lockdown. Which, were real, no question. All my logic can come up with is you aren't going to be inconvenienced or affected negatively much if you're dead.

I suspect if it happened again pretty much the same crap would happen with little deviation except for the number of people who just blow it off as been there done that.

And I don't have answers, just an opinion.
Most of the people who died of covid were already ill and/or over 55.
Factually speaking, not opinion.

The gov't did not help. But boosted fears & made it worse with nearly every move.
That's also objectively factual.

govt please do something isn't always the best option.
that's my opinion.

[Black Diamond]

And of course if there is some bio-weapon virus attack, China will be the only source we should blame.
No one should consider any accidents or other governments ...foreign or domestic.
that'd be crazy talk.

•"- 1956: U.S. military releases mosquitoes infected with Yellow Fever over Savannah, Ga and Avon Park, Fl. Following each test, Army agents posing as public health officials test victims for effects."

•EPA oks plan release 24-million genetically modified mosquitoes - on Florida 2022
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/epa-oks-plan-release-24-million-genetically-modified-mosquitoes-rcna19738

•https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/28/bill-gates-released-swarming-mosquitoes-to-make-a-point-about-malaria.html
•https://www.gatesnotes.com/Mosquito-Factory

folks should keep an open mind.
Or just trust what the gov't says without question ...again.

Well in faucis "secret" email, he said it was probably created in a lab and virtually everyone on both sides of this issue seems to believe the virus came from china.
But to your point i wouldn't put anything past the Dems.

[revelarts]

Well in faucis "secret" email, he said it was probably created in a lab and virtually everyone on both sides of this issue seems to believe the virus came from china.
But to your point i wouldn't put anything past the Dems.
yep,
From U.S. funding Via Fauci to U.S. org EcoHealth Alliance, research started in North Carolina and continued in Wuhan China.
Also there's some evidence that the research is also connected to the DoD.

[Gunny]

Most of the people who died of covid were already ill and/or over 55.
Factually speaking, not opinion.

The gov't did not help. But boosted fears & made it worse with nearly every move.
That's also objectively factual.

govt please do something isn't always the best option.
that's my opinion.

Even if your first statement is correct (which I doubt), so? My mother, father, brother and myself are over 55. Most of my friends are over 55. My daughter is in poor health and did almost die from COVID. The people I knew who died from COVID were in their 30s and weren't in poor health until they had COVID.

Let me quote myself:
If 2020 repeats itself anytime soon how do you think that will go over? Forgotten will be the millions killed by COVID. Only the inconveniences have been remembered and focused on by the general public. I didn't die last time:rolleyes:

Long as it's not "me", right? Tough shit if you're old or weak. But if the same is said about the few that had adverse reactions to the vaccine? OH HELL NO! THAT is getting personal followed by justified meltdown and fearmongering.

Should listen to yourself.


Demanding government do something is the vast majority's answer to everything in current society. Way it is.

[revelarts]

Even if your first statement is correct (which I doubt), so? My mother, father, brother and myself are over 55. Most of my friends are over 55. My daughter is in poor health and did almost die from COVID. The people I knew who died from COVID were in their 30s and weren't in poor health until they had COVID.

Let me quote myself:

Long as it's not "me", right? Tough shit if you're old or weak. But if the same is said about the few that had adverse reactions to the vaccine? OH HELL NO! THAT is getting personal followed by justified meltdown and fearmongering.

Should listen to yourself.


Demanding government do something is the vast majority's answer to everything in current society. Way it is.

Why is pointing out the facts & that the govt solutions made it worse mean that I do not care if people died.

frankly one of the reasons i came back to DP was to post possible solutions to covid.
solutions that were mocked. but i kept posting because I DO NOT want anyone to die.
Many drs were BEGGING the gov't to promote options that would help but they were attacked, censored had their incenses and hospital privileges taken.
And some people had to get court orders to use legal meds that DID in fact save older family members lives.

I hear myself fine. I don't think you've been listening to me clearly.
Seems you've distorted what i said into NOT caring when i simply point out the HARM the gov't did to everyone including those who died.

If something like it happens again, trust me, i haven't forgotten JACK. (ive got pages of info saved just in case i need a reminder)
Even though you and others have told me more than once to leave it alone and "move on" too other issues.
While i've said we need to MAKE SURE the details of the horror show have been reviewed & people held accountable so IF there is a next time people and the govt will not fall into the same mistakes.
Or create new ones.

Demanding the gov't to BACK the H up is what i'm promoting , no matter what "is".

[Gunny]

Why is pointing out the facts & that the govt solutions made it worse mean that I do not care if people died.

frankly one of the reasons i came back to DP was to post possible solutions to covid.
solutions that were mocked. but i kept posting because I DO NOT want anyone to die.
Many drs were BEGGING the gov't to promote options that would help but they were attacked, censored had their incenses and hospital privileges taken.
And some people had to get court orders to use legal meds that DID in fact save older family members lives.

I hear myself fine. I don't think you've been listening to me clearly.
Seems you've distorted what i said into NOT caring when i simply point out the HARM the gov't did to everyone including those who died.

If something like it happens again, trust me, i haven't forgotten JACK. (ive got pages of info saved just in case i need a reminder)
Even though you and others have told me more than once to leave it alone and "move on" too other issues.
While i've said we need to MAKE SURE the details of the horror show have been reviewed & people held accountable so IF there is a next time people and the govt will not fall into the same mistakes.
Or create new ones.

Demanding the gov't to BACK the H up is what i'm promoting , no matter what "is".

I read and comprehend English just fine. I don't agree with your position as it pertains to me and my family and friends. I have not once told you what to do about COVID nor pronounced judgement on you for your decisions as it pertains to you, your family and friends. I object to it being politicized, and opinion posted as fact. That's not about you. That's for anyone.

One would think one would not wish to place themselves in the position to be responsible for someone else's bad decisions.

[revelarts]

I read and comprehend English just fine. I don't agree with your position as it pertains to me and my family and friends.
I posted possible options and warnings, that's it.

And I pointed out possible/likely problems with the gov't solutions.
Everyone is & was free to read it & do what they thought best.
No children on the board here.


I have not once told you what to do about COVID nor pronounced judgement on you for your decisions as it pertains to you, your family and friends.
I never said you didn't care about others dying simply because you held a different opinion about solutions.
But you've told me that today gunny, WTH man?



One would think one would not wish to place themselves in the position to be responsible for someone else's bad decisions.

No children on the board here.
Giving people MORE info to make more informed decisions is a good thing to do IMO.
It was/is a medical issue, people have to figure out what measures they think best.
Everyone is responsible for themselves, what they do with any info, whatever the source.