Trump-proofing weapons for Ukraine: Allies consider moving arms group into NATO

[Gunny]

Good idea. Better late than never.

Trump-proofing weapons for Ukraine: Allies consider moving arms group into NATO - POLITICO (https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/02/allies-consider-moving-ukraine-arms-group-into-nato-to-shield-it-from-trump-00150151)

[revelarts]

Maybe the euro nations should take it over all together? leave the U.S. & it's contractors out of it completely.
Europeans defending Europe from the bad ol Russians "invasion". that's going to happen any minute now... right after Saddam .. i mean Iran's Ahmadinejad attacks the whole middle east to start the Kalifah!
the end of the world as we know it... again... if they don't DO something.

[Gunny]

Maybe the euro nations should take it over all together? leave the U.S. & it's contractors out of it completely.
Europeans defending Europe from the bad ol Russians "invasion". that's going to happen any minute now... right after Saddam .. i mean Iran's Ahmadinejad attacks the whole middle east to start the Kalifah!
the end of the world as we know it... again... if they don't DO something.

How'd that work out for us in WWs I & II?

[revelarts]

How'd that work out for us in WWs I & II?

Well, I heard that various American Banks & corporation funded and aided Hitler.
Henry Ford got an Award from Hitler.
IBM created & sold the NAZIs the punch card computers that tracked, organized & numbered the Jews in Germany. And others.
As Hitler grew his war machine.


Also I could be wrong but i was taught that WWI had something to do with all the alliances that folks were committed too that drew them into war.
As in, too many people in other people business, helping others in war.
And the evil Huns weren't putting babies on bayonets.


Also what about U.S having bio-weapon labs in the Ukraine right next to Russia?
Haven't we "helped" with weapons in Ukraine enough?
JFK didn't allow Russia to have nukes in Cuba. But Russia's wrong for not wanting U.S. bio-weapons next door. Not sure how that works.
(Well i do know. Russia is the BAD guy gonna take over the world any minute FOR SURE. we are the GOOD guys.:rolleyes:)


BTW I heard that so far we've already given Ukraine more money than Russia spent on it's military budget last year.
maybe we've done enough?!

[Gunny]

Well, I heard that various American Banks & corporation funded and aided Hitler.
Henry Ford got an Award from Hitler.
IBM created & sold the NAZIs the punch card computers that tracked, organized & numbered the Jews in Germany. And others.
As Hitler grew his war machine.


Also I could be wrong but i was taught that WWI had something to do with all the alliances that folks were committed too that drew them into war.
As in, too many people in other people business, helping others in war.
And the evil Huns weren't putting babies on bayonets.


Also what about U.S having bio-weapon labs in the Ukraine right next to Russia?
Haven't we "helped" with weapons in Ukraine enough?
JFK didn't allow Russia to have nukes in Cuba. But Russia's wrong for not wanting U.S. bio-weapons next door. Not sure how that works.
(Well i do know. Russia is the BAD guy gonna take over the world any minute FOR SURE. we are the GOOD guys.:rolleyes:)


BTW I heard that so far we've already given Ukraine more money than Russia spent on it's military budget last year.
maybe we've done enough?!

Historically inaccurate distortions all over the place. All have been dispelled time and again and you're still sticking to your broken record. There is a difference between incapability to comprehend and slapping on blinders to suit a narrative. I suspect you don't suffer the former.

[revelarts]

Historically inaccurate distortions all over the place. All have been dispelled time and again and you're still sticking to your broken record. There is a difference between incapability to comprehend and slapping on blinders to suit a narrative. I suspect you don't suffer the former.

Sure.

BTW Looks like Blinken says that Ukraine will be joining NATO. "sooner rather than later" If it goes as they plan.
Under Article 5, this means that an attack on Ukraine will be considered an attack on the United States.

Got a question for you and Kath.
Do you want to go to war with Russia?
Yes?
No?
(I'll wait for the dodgy answer, that denies the "real world" fact of suppling cash, arms, training & logistics for a war is being at war)


I didn't vote for Trump or Biden last time.
But If Trump means keeping Ukraine out of NATO... as we promised. And NOT going to war with Russia.
I'm voting Trump.
He's a horrible person. and I wish Pence could still be there (I believe he was holding the leash somewhat)... but Still.
It looks like StateDept/CIA/Neo-cons/Neo-libs/imperialist are running the show foreign policy wise.
And no one's at the wheel domestically. at least noone who's up to any good.

[Gunny]

Sure.

BTW Looks like Blinken says that Ukraine will be joining NATO. "sooner rather than later" If it goes as they plan.
Under Article 5, this means that an attack on Ukraine will be considered an attack on the United States.

Got a question for you and Kath.
Do you want to go to war with Russia?
Yes?
No?
(I'll wait for the dodgy answer, that denies the "real world" fact of suppling cash, arms, training & logistics for a war is being at war)


I didn't vote for Trump or Biden last time.
But If Trump means keeping Ukraine out of NATO... as we promised. And NOT going to war with Russia.
I'm voting Trump.
He's a horrible person. and I wish Pence could still be there (I believe he was holding the leash somewhat)... but Still.
It looks like StateDept/CIA/Neo-cons/Neo-libs/imperialist are running the show foreign policy wise.
And no one's at the wheel domestically. at least noone who's up to any good.Your questions are always loaded and never have a simple answer. IF you have a simple answer for your question, you aren't qualified IMO to discuss the topic.

Whoever is supporting the war from our POV currently is making the absolutely only correct decision from a geo-political standpoint. Your stance sacrifices the long-term for a short-term ceasefire where you think you can declare peace (in our time). Where have I heard that one before?

Trump's stance on Ukraine is right at the top of my list of why not to vote for him. He thinks he can money and/or bully his way out of everything. Sooner or later all bullies have to put up or shut up. Anything he does that gives in to Russia in any way will come back on us later. Putin is not going to be satisfied. This isn't the first nor even second country he has invaded.

To your point: No, I don't want US troops at war with Russia in Ukraine. I don't "support" war at all. I hate it and think it's stupid. It destroys everything it touches. BUT it IS the way of Man. Reality has to be dealt with. Putin didn't call and ask my opinion before he invaded a sovereign nation for the purpose of subjugation, exploitation and what he perceives as strategic advantage.

And if for no other reason, I ALWAYS keep my promises. Knowing that, I make them sparingly after full consideration. Breaking one's word without a seriously damned good reason is a sin in my book. Walking out on one because the going gets tough is beneath contempt.

This shit is not going away. It's escalating. The sooner you and people who think like you accept that simple fact, maybe we can get on with doing something about it?

[Kathianne]

I figure that Trump would be better dealing with Putin and most, if not all foreign leaders than Biden. He at least talks tough. OTOH, Ukraine is not something, imo, we would be wise to walk away from.

No, I don't think we should jump in with troops, until there's no choice. Looking at you the two WWs we've been forced into.

What we seem to never learn, is to prepare when the game becomes clear, we're still diddling.

[revelarts]

Your questions are always loaded and never have a simple answer. IF you have a simple answer for your question, you aren't qualified IMO to discuss the topic.

Whoever is supporting the war from our POV currently is making the absolutely only correct decision from a geo-political standpoint. Your stance sacrifices the long-term for a short-term ceasefire where you think you can declare peace (in our time). Where have I heard that one before?

Trump's stance on Ukraine is right at the top of my list of why not to vote for him. He thinks he can money and/or bully his way out of everything. Sooner or later all bullies have to put up or shut up. Anything he does that gives in to Russia in any way will come back on us later. Putin is not going to be satisfied. This isn't the first nor even second country he has invaded.

To your point: No, I don't want US troops at war with Russia in Ukraine. I don't "support" war at all. I hate it and think it's stupid. It destroys everything it touches. BUT it IS the way of Man. Reality has to be dealt with. Putin didn't call and ask my opinion before he invaded a sovereign nation for the purpose of subjugation, exploitation and what he perceives as strategic advantage.

And if for no other reason, I ALWAYS keep my promises. Knowing that, I make them sparingly after full consideration. Breaking one's word without a seriously damned good reason is a sin in my book. Walking out on one because the going gets tough is beneath contempt.

This shit is not going away. It's escalating. The sooner you and people who think like you accept that simple fact, maybe we can get on with doing something about it?

"will come back on us later..."
that's an opinion not a fact. The sooner you and people who think like you accept the simple fact that your opinion is NOT a fact, maybe we can get on with working on DEESCALATION and toward the peace you say you want.
BTW every one of the last few times we've intervened, Crap's been been coming back on us. Afghanistan vs Russia turned into 911. Helping radical islam against Russia came back on us ..is still coming back on us. Iraq Saddam (hitler) was a BS waste. Going after Kadaffi (hitler) grew racial muslims there put them in power. US tried the same in Syria with Assad (Hitler!) This idea that 'every enemy/threat is a Hitler', preemptive strike, over there before here, mindset hasn't really worked SINCE WW2.

"Putin is not going to be satisfied..."
That's another opinion, based on your personal projection of a Hitler template onto Putin. Instead of looking at the reality TODAY.

"Putin didn't call and ask my opinion before he invaded..."
No he didn't. But he did say if the U.S. & NATO didn't keep away from his boarder, put weapons in Ukraine, tried to bring Ukraine in to NATO that there would be trouble. Ignoring that reality doesn't make your Hitler case. and makes your idea of Putin as a Hitleresque invader ...less than credible... Ignoring these and other facts and pretending that Hitler is the only way to understand every threat is NOT realistic or honest thinking.

[Gunny]

"will come back on us later..."
that's an opinion not a fact. The sooner you and people who think like you accept the simple fact that your opinion is NOT a fact, maybe we can get on with working on DEESCALATION and toward the peace you say you want.
BTW every one of the last few times we've intervened, Crap's been been coming back on us. Afghanistan vs Russia turned into 911. Helping radical islam against Russia came back on us ..is still coming back on us. Iraq Saddam (hitler) was a BS waste. Going after Kadaffi (hitler) grew racial muslims there put them in power. US tried the same in Syria with Assad (Hitler!) This idea that 'every enemy/threat is a Hitler', preemptive strike, over there before here, mindset hasn't really worked SINCE WW2.

"Putin is not going to be satisfied..."
That's another opinion, based on your personal projection of a Hitler template onto Putin. Instead of looking at the reality TODAY.

"Putin didn't call and ask my opinion before he invaded..."
No he didn't. But he did say if the U.S. & NATO didn't keep away from his boarder, put weapons in Ukraine, tried to bring Ukraine in to NATO that there would be trouble. Ignoring that reality doesn't make your Hitler case. and makes your idea of Putin as a Hitleresque invader ...less than credible... Ignoring these and other facts and pretending that Hitler is the only way to understand every threat is NOT realistic or honest thinking.

My opinions are based you historical fact and probability. Yours are based on wishful thinking. When all roads lead to Rome, you don't end up in Cucamonga.

[Gunny]

Iran said to decide on direct response to Syria strike, put its forces on full alert | The Times of Israel (https://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-said-to-decide-on-direct-response-to-syria-strike-put-forces-on-full-alert/)

[Gunny]

China sends warplanes, boats around Taiwan following phone call between Xi and Biden (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/china-sends-warplanes-boats-around-taiwan-following-phone-call-between-xi-and-biden/ar-BB1l0oRg)

[Gunny]

North Korea says it tested a new hypersonic intermediate-range missile that's easier to hide (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/north-korea-says-it-tested-a-new-hypersonic-intermediate-range-missile-that-uses-solid-propellants/ar-BB1kYpHt)

[Gunny]

Not unnoticed is that over the past several months the USN has relieved several high level commanders.

As it looks to keep its edge over rivals, the US Navy's biggest shipbuilding projects are delayed by years, new review finds (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/as-it-looks-to-keep-its-edge-over-rivals-the-us-navys-biggest-shipbuilding-projects-are-delayed-by-years-new-review-finds/ar-BB1l1gPy)

[Gunny]

Inside the US Navy’s frontline fight against the Houthis in the Red Sea | CNN Politics (https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/14/politics/us-navy-houthi-fight-red-sea/index.html)
Navy Presence Off Israel Grows as USS Mount Whitney Deploys to Region with Senior Admiral Aboard | Military.com (https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/10/18/uss-mount-whitney-and-three-star-admiral-headed-mediterranean-aid-support-of-israel-amid-military.html)

[Gunny]

Nope. Nothing to see here. The World is all sunshine, rainbows and lollipops:rolleyes:

[revelarts]

My opinions are based you historical fact and probability. Yours are based on wishful thinking. When all roads lead to Rome, you don't end up in Cucamonga.
Seems like all roads lead to Hitler.
And the ONLY preventative to Hitler is Billions of US dollars of "Aid" & Arms to corrupt "friends".
Like Radical Muslims, the Azov battalion, & others.

NOTHING else... ever.
Because every other option is only "rainbows".:rolleyes:
And we'll always have billions to spare for foreign countries problems.