CIA built labs in Ukraine

[SassyLady]

Yep..

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/25/world/europe/cia-ukraine-intelligence-russia-war.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/cia-ukraine-russian-intelligence-lethal-operations-nyt-2024-2

[revelarts]

...The partnership, which can be traced back to February 2014, has provided Ukraine with intelligence-gathering training, communications equipment, and, in the past eight years, a network of spy bases built along the Russian border, the report said.

....
"We made a distinction between intelligence collection operations and things that go boom," a former senior US official told the Times.
Those boundaries have since been abandoned after Russia invaded Ukraine in February 2022, according to the report.
The Biden Administration greenlighted the CIA to provide intelligence critical for Ukraine's lethal operations against Russia, the report said.
Some of the intelligence included when exactly Russian forces planned to attack six Ukrainian cities and assassination plans against top Ukrainian officials, including President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, according to the report.
"Are they pulling triggers? No," a senior US official told The Times of the CIA's role in Ukraine. "Are they helping with targeting? Absolutely."
We know it's all true because the CIA said it was.

It all just started in 2014 :rolleyes:

"for freedom"

I wonder what Israel would do if Gaza had the CIA/KGB spy stations there?
I wonder what Israel would do if Gaza had bio-weapons labs?
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?76315-US-funded-labs-in-Ukraine&highlight=bio-weapons
Maybe try to kill them all? "neutralize" the threat.

Would they think that having Bio or Chemical weapons in Gaza right on their boarder is a provocation?
I mean they shouldn't right?
If they attacked Gaza and killed 10s of thousands and displaced millions over it that'd just be a propagandistic excuse for expansion.
they'd probably take over Egypt next.

[SassyLady]

Biolabs .. some owned by Hunter Biden and other political figures. Yeah .. nothing sinister about that.

[Gunny]

Ukraine war: Fact-checking Russia's biological weapons claims (bbc.com) (https://www.bbc.com/news/60711705)

NYT: CIA network of bases in Ukraine at risk if US does not pass aid (yahoo.com) (https://news.yahoo.com/nyt-cia-network-bases-ukraine-123116608.html)

[SassyLady]

Ukraine war: Fact-checking Russia's biological weapons claims (bbc.com) (https://www.bbc.com/news/60711705)

NYT: CIA network of bases in Ukraine at risk if US does not pass aid (yahoo.com) (https://news.yahoo.com/nyt-cia-network-bases-ukraine-123116608.html)

Conspiracy theories proving out about reason Russia invaded. Hmmm....

[Gunny]

Conspiracy theories proving out about reason Russia invaded. Hmmm....Not even close. The reasons others have been present in Ukraine and why are explained logically, debunking any conspiracy theories otherwise.

[revelarts]

Not even close. The reasons others have been present in Ukraine and why are explained logically, debunking any conspiracy theories otherwise.

•there are No U.S. bio weapons-labs in Ukraine
•the U.S. didn't blow up the Russian pipeline
•everyone should have taken the vax as a good team player

the gov't has explained it all logically.

Sorry all of those are bad takes Gunny.
the gov't is lying

[Gunny]

•there are No U.S. bio weapons-labs in Ukraine
•the U.S. didn't blow up the Russian pipeline
•everyone should have taken the vax as a good team player

the gov't has explained it all logically.

Sorry all of those are bad takes Gunny.
the gov't is lying

Not everything under the sun has some nefarious, illogical explanation.

[revelarts]

Not everything under the sun has some nefarious, .... explanation.
those 3 do.
and it's not illogical. if you look at all the evidence and motives.

[Gunny]

those 3 do.
and it's not illogical. if you look at all the evidence and motives.I have looked at all the real evidence. The conspiracy theories just take something simple and add nefarious motives and nonexistent and/or illogical facts and like the Big bang, create something from nothing. Quite illogical.

[revelarts]

I have looked at all the real evidence. The conspiracy theories just take something simple and add nefarious motives and nonexistent and/or illogical facts and like the Big bang, create something from nothing. Quite illogical.
you can lead a Guuny to water but...

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?76315-US-funded-labs-in-Ukraine&highlight=bio-weapons


...
and


So do bio labs exist inside Ukraine, and is the US supporting them?
Yes, and yes. Ukraine does operate biological laboratories that receive US funding. The US undersecretary of state Victoria Nuland affirmed those facts in a Senate foreign relations committee hearing this week, in which the Republican senator Marco Rubio asked directly if Ukraine had biological weapons.
Nuland did not answer the question head on. “Ukraine has biological research facilities,” she said, adding that there was concern that Russian forces were trying to gain control of the labs. “We are working with the Ukrainians on how they can prevent any of those research materials from falling into the hands of Russian forces.”
Nuland’s comments were seized upon by far-right commentators as evidence of a secret plot. In fact, US funding to the laboratories had its roots in the fall of the Soviet Union, after which money was pumped into Ukraine and other countries to help them transfer scientific skills away from weapons towards public health.
The scheme was originally known as Cooperative Threat Reduction (CTR) (https://www.dtra.mil/Portals/61/Documents/History%20of%20CTR.pdf?ver=2019-04-25-140558-733) but is now more commonly referred to as biological engagement. It has been successful in helping former Soviet and other countries fulfill public health obligations.
“This is one of the best things that we do,” Dr Gigi Gronvall, senior scholar at Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, told the Guardian.
Most of the work of the Ukraine labs today, Gronvall said, involves surveillance of diseases in animals and people as an early-warning system for illnesses such as African swine fever, which is endemic in the region.
“We know pathogens don’t respect borders, so helping to put out public health fires before they become too big is an advantage to all of us,” she said.
Do the Ukraine laboratories store dangerous biological agents?
As part of their work the labs do seem to hold dangerous pathogens. We know that because WHO is urging Ukraine to destroy any highly dangerous agents to avoid the risk of a disastrous outbreak should one of the labs be hit by Russian forces.
“As part of this work, WHO has strongly recommended to the ministry of
health in Ukraine and other responsible bodies to destroy high-threat
pathogens to prevent any potential spills,” the UN health agency said.
The WHO has worked in Ukraine for several years helping bio labs improve safety and security, so it knows what it is talking about....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/11/russia-biological-weapon-claim-us-un-ukraine-bio-labs-explainer?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other



But the CIA said it aint so, so that's that?

[revelarts]

here's a few more items to review
” . . . . [Robert Pope, the director of the Pentagon’s Cooperative Threat Reduction Program] noted that some of the facilities may contain pathogens once used for Soviet-era bioweapons programs, but he emphasized that the Ukrainian labs currently did not have the ability to manufacture bioweapons. . . . In a March interview with the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists (https://thebulletin.org/2022/03/in-ukrainian-cities-under-russian-attack-us-linked-research-labs-could-provide-fodder-for-future-russian-disinformation/) . . . . He spoke specifically about the Pentagon’s support of 14 veterinary laboratories that provide Ukraine with sampling and diagnostic abilities to detect infectious diseases. . . .”

Good thing the pentagon is spending money in Ukraine for "veterinary labs".
I thought the pentagon was all about defending the U.S. by killing people not about taking care of foreign animals.
Any former military here ever work as "veterinary labs" that "used to" create military grade bio- weapons?

Here's a link to 1 receipt for funding one of the labs that the Gov't REMOVED the official gov't website.
there are about 20+ that were removed... are we supposed to believe they were removed because there's "Nothing" in Ukraine?
the web archive site still has it and the others ...so far.
https://photos.state.gov/libraries/ukraine/895/pdf/dtro-kharkiv-eng.pdf

PLAGUE WARS Putin could unleash deadly virus from seized Ukraine lab – and then blame the US, warns ex-Brit chemical weapons colonel
https://www.the-sun.com/news/4880168/russia-virus-stolen-from-ukrainian-lab-bioweapon/
Colonel Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, former chief of the British Army's chemical weapons unit, told The Sun Online there is a possibility Russian troops could storm a lab and use it as a base to unleash a bioweapon.
And he also warned that the "indiscriminate" bombing by Putin's troops could spark chaos at one of the labs.
It came as the World Health Organisation said the most deadly pathogens in Ukraine's labs should be wiped out as Russia's relentless bombing has raised the risk of "potential spills".
The invading Russian forces have already proved to be reckless enough to fire shells at Chernobyl, Europe’s largest nuclear-power plant, and fire missiles at a radioactive-waste facility near Kyiv.
And biowarfare experts have become increasingly concerned about the security of Ukraine's labs as the Russian troops advance.

So why would the former chief of the British Army's chemical weapons unit & the WHO think there's a problem if there ARE NO bio-weapons labs?

But maybe he's lying too? (and the WHO.. wouldn't be 1st for them) But wouldn't that mean a nefarious conspiracy of some kind?

Look I know we like to think the U.S. military is just out there protecting the world from the bad guys.
but the reality is sometimes the pentagon & reps of the U.S.gov't are doing some dirty illegal Sh!t. and lie saying they are not.


If we're using logic we don't ignore a train of uncomfortable facts.

[SassyLady]

I have looked at all the real evidence. The conspiracy theories just take something simple and add nefarious motives and nonexistent and/or illogical facts and like the Big bang, create something from nothing. Quite illogical.

I question your "real evidence". Victoria Neuland testified to congress about the labs.

[Gunny]

I question your "real evidence". Victoria Neuland testified to congress about the labs.I believe if you look, one of the links I provided attest to the existence of the labs and why the US and other country and World organizations are involved in them. That would be evidence. Unlike someone taking a story, giving it a false narrative and running with it.

[Gunny]

you can lead a Guuny to water but...

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?76315-US-funded-labs-in-Ukraine&highlight=bio-weapons


...
and

So do bio labs exist inside Ukraine, and is the US supporting them?
Yes, and yes. Ukraine does operate biological laboratories that receive US funding. The US undersecretary of state Victoria Nuland affirmed those facts in a Senate foreign relations committee hearing this week, in which the Republican senator Marco Rubio asked directly if Ukraine had biological weapons.
Nuland did not answer the question head on. “Ukraine has biological research facilities,” she said, adding that there was concern that Russian forces were trying to gain control of the labs. “We are working with the Ukrainians on how they can prevent any of those research materials from falling into the hands of Russian forces.”
Nuland’s comments were seized upon by far-right commentators as evidence of a secret plot. In fact, US funding to the laboratories had its roots in the fall of the Soviet Union, after which money was pumped into Ukraine and other countries to help them transfer scientific skills away from weapons towards public health.
The scheme was originally known as Cooperative Threat Reduction (CTR) (https://www.dtra.mil/Portals/61/Documents/History%20of%20CTR.pdf?ver=2019-04-25-140558-733) but is now more commonly referred to as biological engagement. It has been successful in helping former Soviet and other countries fulfill public health obligations.
“This is one of the best things that we do,” Dr Gigi Gronvall, senior scholar at Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, told the Guardian.
Most of the work of the Ukraine labs today, Gronvall said, involves surveillance of diseases in animals and people as an early-warning system for illnesses such as African swine fever, which is endemic in the region.
“We know pathogens don’t respect borders, so helping to put out public health fires before they become too big is an advantage to all of us,” she said.
Do the Ukraine laboratories store dangerous biological agents?
As part of their work the labs do seem to hold dangerous pathogens. We know that because WHO is urging Ukraine to destroy any highly dangerous agents to avoid the risk of a disastrous outbreak should one of the labs be hit by Russian forces.
“As part of this work, WHO has strongly recommended to the ministry of
health in Ukraine and other responsible bodies to destroy high-threat
pathogens to prevent any potential spills,” the UN health agency said.
The WHO has worked in Ukraine for several years helping bio labs improve safety and security, so it knows what it is talking about....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/11/russia-biological-weapon-claim-us-un-ukraine-bio-labs-explainer?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other



But the CIA said it aint so, so that's that?


here's a few more items to review
” . . . . [Robert Pope, the director of the Pentagon’s Cooperative Threat Reduction Program] noted that some of the facilities may contain pathogens once used for Soviet-era bioweapons programs, but he emphasized that the Ukrainian labs currently did not have the ability to manufacture bioweapons. . . . In a March interview with the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists (https://thebulletin.org/2022/03/in-ukrainian-cities-under-russian-attack-us-linked-research-labs-could-provide-fodder-for-future-russian-disinformation/) . . . . He spoke specifically about the Pentagon’s support of 14 veterinary laboratories that provide Ukraine with sampling and diagnostic abilities to detect infectious diseases. . . .”

Good thing the pentagon is spending money in Ukraine for "veterinary labs".
I thought the pentagon was all about defending the U.S. by killing people not about taking care of foreign animals.
Any former military here ever work as "veterinary labs" that "used to" create military grade bio- weapons?

Here's a link to 1 receipt for funding one of the labs that the Gov't REMOVED the official gov't website.
there are about 20+ that were removed... are we supposed to believe they were removed because there's "Nothing" in Ukraine?
the web archive site still has it and the others ...so far.
https://photos.state.gov/libraries/ukraine/895/pdf/dtro-kharkiv-eng.pdf

PLAGUE WARS Putin could unleash deadly virus from seized Ukraine lab – and then blame the US, warns ex-Brit chemical weapons colonel
https://www.the-sun.com/news/4880168/russia-virus-stolen-from-ukrainian-lab-bioweapon/
Colonel Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, former chief of the British Army's chemical weapons unit, told The Sun Online there is a possibility Russian troops could storm a lab and use it as a base to unleash a bioweapon.
And he also warned that the "indiscriminate" bombing by Putin's troops could spark chaos at one of the labs.
It came as the World Health Organisation said the most deadly pathogens in Ukraine's labs should be wiped out as Russia's relentless bombing has raised the risk of "potential spills".
The invading Russian forces have already proved to be reckless enough to fire shells at Chernobyl, Europe’s largest nuclear-power plant, and fire missiles at a radioactive-waste facility near Kyiv.
And biowarfare experts have become increasingly concerned about the security of Ukraine's labs as the Russian troops advance.

So why would the former chief of the British Army's chemical weapons unit & the WHO think there's a problem if there ARE NO bio-weapons labs?

But maybe he's lying too? (and the WHO.. wouldn't be 1st for them) But wouldn't that mean a nefarious conspiracy of some kind?

Look I know we like to think the U.S. military is just out there protecting the world from the bad guys.
but the reality is sometimes the pentagon & reps of the U.S.gov't are doing some dirty illegal Sh!t. and lie saying they are not.


If we're using logic we don't ignore a train of uncomfortable facts.Where you aren't going to lead me is down your nonsensical rabbit holes.

[Gunny]

The Pentagon didn’t ‘admit’ there are 46 US-funded biolabs in Ukraine (statesman.com) (https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022/06/18/fact-check-pentagon-military-funded-labs-ukraine-russia-invasion/7646221001/)

[revelarts]

The Pentagon didn’t ‘admit’ there are 46 US-funded biolabs in Ukraine (statesman.com) (https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022/06/18/fact-check-pentagon-military-funded-labs-ukraine-russia-invasion/7646221001/)
I see, Ok.
so there it is... it's not U.S. "run". and it's not "bio-weapons" it's just prevention.

Kinda like how the U.S. and Chinese officials have explained to us that Wuhan lab and North Carolina University Labs are not & were not "bio-weapons" labs.
very reassuring.

AND Faucci has explained to congress and the world that the U.S. Gov't never funded "gain of function" research in Wuhan or elsewhere.
And all the research funded was just about prevention there too.

Case closed. So it should never be questioned.
And Anything else is just crazy talk.

Pentagon works on preventative measures labs examining agricultural infectious diseases in foreign countries all the time... no big deal.

The government fact sheet said:
"...The collaborative programs have focused on improving public health and agricultural safety measures at the nexus of nonproliferation...."

I guess, my only problem with this quote that helps explain it all away is that Ive rarely... never... seen the use of the word "nonproliferation" outside of the context of weapons. Nuke, bio & chemical weapons.

[Gunny]

I see, Ok.
so there it is... it's not U.S. "run". and it's not "bio-weapons" it's just prevention.

Kinda like how the U.S. and Chinese officials have explained to us that Wuhan lab and North Carolina University Labs are not & were not "bio-weapons" labs.
very reassuring.

AND Faucci has explained to congress and the world that the U.S. Gov't never funded "gain of function" research in Wuhan or elsewhere.
And all the research funded was just about prevention there too.

Case closed. So it should never be questioned.
And Anything else is just crazy talk.

Pentagon works on preventative measures labs examining agricultural infectious diseases in foreign countries all the time... no big deal.

The government fact sheet said:
"...The collaborative programs have focused on improving public health and agricultural safety measures at the nexus of nonproliferation...."

I guess, my only problem with this quote that helps explain it all away is that Ive rarely... never... seen the use of the word "nonproliferation" outside of the context of weapons. Nuke, bio & chemical weapons.

Not the same by any means, and predates China/COVID/Wuhan and Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine. Don't have any idea what the original intent of the labs was under the USSR, but I can hazard a guess that wouldn't be far off. It was and is in everyone's best interest that they are in the hands of people who know what they are dealing with. In case you missed it, Ukraine wasn't exactly up to date when Russia invaded.

But since you dragged them into it ... China/COVID/Wuhan Lab are THE very justification for biological research because some of these bad actors are more than willing to use bio weapons.

Since you love your idealism, here's some for you ... was it up to me there wouldn't be a single nuclear, biological and/or chemical weapon on the planet. See how idealism stacks up against reality? :rolleyes:

[revelarts]

Not the same by any means, and predates China/COVID/Wuhan and Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine. Don't have any idea what the original intent of the labs was under the USSR, but I can hazard a guess that wouldn't be far off. It was and is in everyone's best interest that they are in the hands of people who know what they are dealing with. In case you missed it, Ukraine wasn't exactly up to date when Russia invaded.

But since you dragged them into it ... China/COVID/Wuhan Lab are THE very justification for biological research because some of these bad actors are more than willing to use bio weapons.

Since you love your idealism, here's some for you ... was it up to me there wouldn't be a single nuclear, biological and/or chemical weapon on the planet. See how idealism stacks up against reality? :rolleyes:

I'm not the one being idealistic about the motives and the actions of the Pentagon & CIA in bio-lab projects in a corrupt non-nato nation next to Russia Gunny.

[SassyLady]

I believe if you look, one of the links I provided attest to the existence of the labs and why the US and other country and World organizations are involved in them. That would be evidence. Unlike someone taking a story, giving it a false narrative and running with it.

What's the false narrative?

[Gunny]

What's the false narrative?That the Batman is a bad guy because he kills bad guys:rolleyes:

[revelarts]

That the Batman is a bad guy because he kills bad guys:rolleyes:
um, 1st Batman doesn't kill. it's a rule he and most heroes follow. At least they use too.


BTW even in the comic-books there are few purely "good guys". And NO nations portrayed as always "the good guys".
That's kind of story is too idealistic , even for the comics.

[Gunny]

um, 1st Batman doesn't kill. it's a rule he and most heroes follow. At least they use too.


BTW even in the comic-books there are few purely "good guys". And NO nations portrayed as always "the good guys".
That's kind of story is too idealistic , even for the comics.

Batman killed bad guys. Then he didn't. Now he does again. That was the beef between Batman and Superman. Superman took issue with Batman killing bad guys and Batman took issue with Superman considering himself morally superior for not doing so.

Superman v Batman was a sideshow in current movies not in the original series of comics Superman v Doomsday; which, I still have. Packed away somewhere :)

Superman was at least since the 50s singularly virtuous to a fault.

[SassyLady]

That the Batman is a bad guy because he kills bad guys:rolleyes:

If Batman kills innocents because he's just prepping in case the bad guys come then he's not a good guy at all.

[Gunny]

If Batman kills innocents because he's just prepping in case the bad guys come then he's not a good guy at all.Didn't say a thing about Batman killing innocents.

There is no such thing as "innocents" not getting killed. Pipe dream of the left and propaganda tool for those with their own agendas.

If Superman destroys Doomsday while noncombatants are injured or killed and property damaged, was it worth it? Seeing as Doomsday was a threat to the existence of Man. I'm sure since he was in Metropolis/Gotham though, a bunch of Russians who could neither see nor feel the threat sat back whining about the effect it had on the climate:rolleyes:

Oh, and of course, Doomsday was working for the CIA.

[revelarts]

Didn't say a thing about Batman killing innocents.

There is no such thing as "innocents" not getting killed. Pipe dream of the left and propaganda tool for those with their own agendas.

If Superman destroys Doomsday while noncombatants are injured or killed and property damaged, was it worth it? Seeing as Doomsday was a threat to the existence of Man. I'm sure since he was in Metropolis/Gotham though, a bunch of Russians who could neither see nor feel the threat sat back whining about the effect it had on the climate:rolleyes:

Oh, and of course, Doomsday was working for the CIA.

If Superman and batman destroy the city fighting the Penguin & noncombatants are injured or killed and property damaged, was it worth it?
Not ever villain is Doomsday.

[SassyLady]

I'm thinking batman superman and doomsday all wanted to kill each other and didn't care who died in the process.

[Gunny]

If Superman and batman destroy the city fighting the Penguin & noncombatants are injured or killed and property damaged, was it worth it?
Not ever villain is Doomsday.Not every villain is not.

[Gunny]

I'm thinking batman superman and doomsday all wanted to kill each other and didn't care who died in the process.Incorrect. Superman is from the offset noble. He fought for something he felt was more important than just himself. The survival of the human race he swore to protect.

Given he could have just flown off to another planet and forgot the whole thing, he made the ultimate sacrifice. Easy to see he is not of THIS current society:rolleyes:

He instead could have turned a blind eye and said it wasn't his business. Metaphoric irony.