Gunny - any good improvement, or ripped off?

[jimnyc]

So I was back at the gym today for my final training session on a 6 week program. We went through a new assessment and he now talked me into another set but this time for 12 weeks. Yikes.

But it was him raving over my results that made me do it again and stick with it. He said my body fat percentage drop was the best he's ever seen based on the first 6 weeks with him. Not sure if I was snowed or actually did well? I think a lot was my new diet and not pounding down snacks at 9pm!

So weight went from 192 - 176 = so lost 16lbs during that time. Don't want to lose anymore but now continue just toning the belly fat the best I can. I'm 55 so don't need to overdo things here. :)

Skeletal muscle mass went from 75.6 to 73.2 and I don't know what this is really anyway.

Ok, and the percentage of body fat that he said was good improvement was originally 30.5 and now down to 26.3 and he claims that was a great improvement for a short amount of time. Still sounds fat to me! And the belly, while slowly coming down, is still jiggly like a bowl of jello that is slowly hardening. :laugh:

Depending on how things progress, at least going forward it is weekly payments for the sessions up to 12 weeks, so I can bail at any time. But he keeps me coming more often and keeps me honest on the workouts. He is a Giants fan though, but that means I just get to laugh at him once weekly when they lose. :thumb:

I have been following much of your advice on the eating as well, when I can, and like I said I think the diet accounts for the majority of the weight loss at least. Now I need to even it out.

[Gunny]

So I was back at the gym today for my final training session on a 6 week program. We went through a new assessment and he now talked me into another set but this time for 12 weeks. Yikes.

But it was him raving over my results that made me do it again and stick with it. He said my body fat percentage drop was the best he's ever seen based on the first 6 weeks with him. Not sure if I was snowed or actually did well? I think a lot was my new diet and not pounding down snacks at 9pm!

So weight went from 192 - 176 = so lost 16lbs during that time. Don't want to lose anymore but now continue just toning the belly fat the best I can. I'm 55 so don't need to overdo things here. :)

Skeletal muscle mass went from 75.6 to 73.2 and I don't know what this is really anyway.

Ok, and the percentage of body fat that he said was good improvement was originally 30.5 and now down to 26.3 and he claims that was a great improvement for a short amount of time. Still sounds fat to me! And the belly, while slowly coming down, is still jiggly like a bowl of jello that is slowly hardening. :laugh:

Depending on how things progress, at least going forward it is weekly payments for the sessions up to 12 weeks, so I can bail at any time. But he keeps me coming more often and keeps me honest on the workouts. He is a Giants fan though, but that means I just get to laugh at him once weekly when they lose. :thumb:

I have been following much of your advice on the eating as well, when I can, and like I said I think the diet accounts for the majority of the weight loss at least. Now I need to even it out.Couple of observations/questions right off the top:

By what method is he measuring your bodyfat and skeletal skeletal muscle mass? That matters.

Simply put, skeletal muscle mass is the amount of muscle you have on your skeleton. Nothing tricky about it :) When losing body weight, losing muscle mass along with the fat happens. Unfortunately, you lose that percentage of strength. If you really want to bust your own nuts, try gaining muscle mass while not increasing/decreasing bodyfat. It's a bitch.

The last place the average male of the species loses visible bodyfat is the gut. With females, it's hips and ass. The woke have not come up with a method to change that general rule. Contrary to popular myth created by fitness junk industry, you lose bodyfat from all over your body and cannot spot reduce it. The preceding meaning this: if you have lost 4% bodyfat from your entire body yet still have the gut, it (gut) is going to appear larger and especially to YOU. You're the critic.

I don't recall when you first mentioned it (month-6 wks?) but 4% drop in that amount of time is good. Impatient people who rush it expecting instant results usually get frustrated, quit and fail. Bear in mind also that your best gains will be in the beginning. They get more stubborn after that. You may lose half or less than that next month-6 wks. THAT is when most get frustrated and quit. They think they're going nowhere rather than grinding it out and taking the gains, no matter how small or large, as gains. Permanent gains add up over the long haul. Short term gains can be lost just as quickly as they're made.

Need to set (a) goal(s). Achievable ones. You are correct that diet has more to do with your body composition than training. Training is to build you up physically, whether or not you wish to maintain, gain, or have some sport-specific in mind. You seem kind of stuck in appearance. I understand that, but it is not synonymous with healthy and/or strong.

Appearance is an illusion. Instead of staring in a mirror which tells one nothing about oneself, bust out your mankini and have the wife take pics. Front back and side. For some reason it gives you a more objective look at yourself than a mirror does. Keeping genetics in mind (frame type, long or short muscles, etc), figure out what you wish to change as best you can. While you're staring at yourself in th epics, check your posture. That matters as well.

Point to the illusion is: Bodybuilding-type exercises can create the illusion of that wide shoulders-narrow waist simply by increasing the size of the legs and shoulders. As opposed to strength training where the emphasis is on strength rather than appearance. I can go on forever. If you need something explained just ask :)

As far as getting ripped off? What do YOU think? First, you're paying this guy for results. You would have to be more pain in the ass than your money is worth for him to not point out your gains as a sales pitch. For your money he is providing you with a space to work out, equipment, and motivation? Is it convenient for you (relative). Are you getting what you're paying for?

Bearing in mind I am reading what you are writing on a web page, IMO, stick it out another go round. 12 weeks right? Thing is, it's not hard to outgrow your instructor or get stuck in a rut and need to a change up to freshen up your workout and gains. If he's meeting all of the above criteria, the time to think about moving on is when you get stuck in a rut, meaning no gains, bored to tears, etc.

[Gunny]

Some physiology I left out that goes to understanding:

Your body has survival mechanisms. One of them is fat storage. When your body gets accustomed to carrying X amount of bodyfat, and you try to cut it too drastically, your body has a kill switch that will stop burning fat and carbs for fuel and start burning your lean muscle mass. It is the reason fad diets/workouts fail. One bad side effect to that is it will send you on a binge eating spree because your body will fight to maintain its status quo.

That's why I think I mentioned treat yourself once a week or so. It won't kill you and it "tricks" your body; which, can give your metabolism a boost.

[hjmick]

Sounds like a sales guy selling...

[Gunny]

Sounds like a sales guy selling...He wouldn't be in business very long if he wasn't :) I honestly could not say without meeting the person or seeing a red flag. I have little to zero tolerance for gym charlatans. On the rare occasion I have run into one, he didn't like what I had to say about his piece of paper that claims he's an expert. Me being such a nice guy and all :halo9:

[jimnyc]

Couple of observations/questions right off the top:

By what method is he measuring your bodyfat and skeletal skeletal muscle mass? That matters.

I have no idea how it would normally all be measured. They have you step onto a scale like machine that first measures your weight. Enter in my membership ID and then it will measure the other crap. You hold the arms with your own arms out and not touching the body and it does it's thing. We did this when we started and then again yesterday to compare results. I do all the entering of weight and such so that I guess that I see he's not cheating. How it figures this stuff, no frickin idea! But it does.

It tells you much more: total body water, dry lean mass, body fat mass & weight. Then muscle fat analysis, obesity analysis, segmental lean analysis - then finally the body composition history of which is where I got the weight, skeletal muscle mass & percentage of body fat from. I'll post photo below.


Simply put, skeletal muscle mass is the amount of muscle you have on your skeleton. Nothing tricky about it :) When losing body weight, losing muscle mass along with the fat happens. Unfortunately, you lose that percentage of strength. If you really want to bust your own nuts, try gaining muscle mass while not increasing/decreasing bodyfat. It's a bitch.

Ok, so now I know what I will NOT be doing! :laugh:


The last place the average male of the species loses visible bodyfat is the gut. With females, it's hips and ass. The woke have not come up with a method to change that general rule. Contrary to popular myth created by fitness junk industry, you lose bodyfat from all over your body and cannot spot reduce it. The preceding meaning this: if you have lost 4% bodyfat from your entire body yet still have the gut, it (gut) is going to appear larger and especially to YOU. You're the critic.

I don't recall when you first mentioned it (month-6 wks?) but 4% drop in that amount of time is good. Impatient people who rush it expecting instant results usually get frustrated, quit and fail. Bear in mind also that your best gains will be in the beginning. They get more stubborn after that. You may lose half or less than that next month-6 wks. THAT is when most get frustrated and quit. They think they're going nowhere rather than grinding it out and taking the gains, no matter how small or large, as gains. Permanent gains add up over the long haul. Short term gains can be lost just as quickly as they're made.

All makes sense. I didn't figure I would ever lose it fully. Would perhaps be nice to just be able to take my shirt off without Mt. Jiggly falling out.

I'm definitely my own worst critic. My wife said she is going to throw away our scale and mirrors on me. The troubleshooter in me tries for results and then looks for change. But I realize it's a process at the same time. Yes, it's been 6 weeks. 16lb loss and the 4% drop, of which I fully expect to plateau and even out.


Need to set (a) goal(s). Achievable ones. You are correct that diet has more to do with your body composition than training. Training is to build you up physically, whether or not you wish to maintain, gain, or have some sport-specific in mind. You seem kind of stuck in appearance. I understand that, but it is not synonymous with healthy and/or strong.

My goal is probably about 20% appearance because I'm a self conscious jerk that is shy as it is! But the other 80% is to get back in shape and not croak by the time I am 65. Agree over the appearance alone as I know the lifestyle change in diet and such is even more important. I'm not naive, I know I am 55 and getting pretty gray, so don't expect or even want miracles, even though it sounds like that at times.


Appearance is an illusion. Instead of staring in a mirror which tells one nothing about oneself, bust out your mankini and have the wife take pics. Front back and side. For some reason it gives you a more objective look at yourself than a mirror does. Keeping genetics in mind (frame type, long or short muscles, etc), figure out what you wish to change as best you can. While you're staring at yourself in th epics, check your posture. That matters as well.

Break out the shorties and have wife take pictures? Do you know my wife? She'll be here on DP by the end of the day posting them! LOL

But yeah, I know that the best way is long term change and stop looking for daily changes.


Point to the illusion is: Bodybuilding-type exercises can create the illusion of that wide shoulders-narrow waist simply by increasing the size of the legs and shoulders. As opposed to strength training where the emphasis is on strength rather than appearance. I can go on forever. If you need something explained just ask :)

As far as getting ripped off? What do YOU think? First, you're paying this guy for results. You would have to be more pain in the ass than your money is worth for him to not point out your gains as a sales pitch. For your money he is providing you with a space to work out, equipment, and motivation? Is it convenient for you (relative). Are you getting what you're paying for?

Bearing in mind I am reading what you are writing on a web page, IMO, stick it out another go round. 12 weeks right? Thing is, it's not hard to outgrow your instructor or get stuck in a rut and need to a change up to freshen up your workout and gains. If he's meeting all of the above criteria, the time to think about moving on is when you get stuck in a rut, meaning no gains, bored to tears, etc.

Just not 100% sure. He's not just some guy off the street but rather a FT trainer that the gym hires for just that reason. When he has no customers he then goes home. But the proceeds go to the gym and I guess he just gets paid by hourly/commission or something.

He's not having me go directly towards free weights and heavy lifting or anything like that. We do 10min of stretching to start, then onto various circuits he sets up. Each one works on legs, arms, chest, shoulder and all the other places while of course centering around the core mostly. I found my upper body to be much stronger than my aching legs! :laugh:

He keeps me going with various circuits until completion and we work quickly with minimal breaks, but take them when needed.

He also writes down various plans for me on paper to take home with me for home workouts - as well as setup n their system for home & includes short video tutorials of every exercise.

What I personally like the most is it keeps me going there and keeps me honest. I know I am doing ALL of these workouts when with him and working my butt off. When by myself and feeling intimidated by the muscleheads or beautiful scenery, I sometimes stay to the outside and do less work and ultimately hit the steam room with less of a workout there and then come home to all of my lame equipment for further work here. One thing about a trainer is that they keep you motivated and moving.

Yup, it's gonna be another 12 weeks going forward and each session is making the gym some solid $$. I guess in the respect that it keeps me going and accomplishes what I want, that makes it worth it. I do see results as well, and the paper shows results. Not sure about this fancy schmancy machine they use though. :dunno:

Here's the copy of what they did to get results from the thingamajig machine. The very bottom on left is where I pulled results from.

https://i.imgur.com/L0JQBO6h.jpg

[jimnyc]

How ya like that, here's the thingamajig they used, so perhaps it's legit? Dunno.

https://inbodyusa.com/

[SassyLady]

How ya like that, here's the thingamajig they used, so perhaps it's legit? Dunno.

https://inbodyusa.com/

I use that machine at my doctors office Jim. I get evaluated every month. Been using it for over 7 years. Very reliable.

Tell him to put new ink in it. That print job is shitty.

[Gunny]

I have no idea how it would normally all be measured. They have you step onto a scale like machine that first measures your weight. Enter in my membership ID and then it will measure the other crap. You hold the arms with your own arms out and not touching the body and it does it's thing. We did this when we started and then again yesterday to compare results. I do all the entering of weight and such so that I guess that I see he's not cheating. How it figures this stuff, no frickin idea! But it does.

It tells you much more: total body water, dry lean mass, body fat mass & weight. Then muscle fat analysis, obesity analysis, segmental lean analysis - then finally the body composition history of which is where I got the weight, skeletal muscle mass & percentage of body fat from. I'll post photo below.



Ok, so now I know what I will NOT be doing! :laugh:



All makes sense. I didn't figure I would ever lose it fully. Would perhaps be nice to just be able to take my shirt off without Mt. Jiggly falling out.

I'm definitely my own worst critic. My wife said she is going to throw away our scale and mirrors on me. The troubleshooter in me tries for results and then looks for change. But I realize it's a process at the same time. Yes, it's been 6 weeks. 16lb loss and the 4% drop, of which I fully expect to plateau and even out.



My goal is probably about 20% appearance because I'm a self conscious jerk that is shy as it is! But the other 80% is to get back in shape and not croak by the time I am 65. Agree over the appearance alone as I know the lifestyle change in diet and such is even more important. I'm not naive, I know I am 55 and getting pretty gray, so don't expect or even want miracles, even though it sounds like that at times.



Break out the shorties and have wife take pictures? Do you know my wife? She'll be here on DP by the end of the day posting them! LOL

But yeah, I know that the best way is long term change and stop looking for daily changes.



Just not 100% sure. He's not just some guy off the street but rather a FT trainer that the gym hires for just that reason. When he has no customers he then goes home. But the proceeds go to the gym and I guess he just gets paid by hourly/commission or something.

He's not having me go directly towards free weights and heavy lifting or anything like that. We do 10min of stretching to start, then onto various circuits he sets up. Each one works on legs, arms, chest, shoulder and all the other places while of course centering around the core mostly. I found my upper body to be much stronger than my aching legs! :laugh:

He keeps me going with various circuits until completion and we work quickly with minimal breaks, but take them when needed.

He also writes down various plans for me on paper to take home with me for home workouts - as well as setup n their system for home & includes short video tutorials of every exercise.

What I personally like the most is it keeps me going there and keeps me honest. I know I am doing ALL of these workouts when with him and working my butt off. When by myself and feeling intimidated by the muscleheads or beautiful scenery, I sometimes stay to the outside and do less work and ultimately hit the steam room with less of a workout there and then come home to all of my lame equipment for further work here. One thing about a trainer is that they keep you motivated and moving.

Yup, it's gonna be another 12 weeks going forward and each session is making the gym some solid $$. I guess in the respect that it keeps me going and accomplishes what I want, that makes it worth it. I do see results as well, and the paper shows results. Not sure about this fancy schmancy machine they use though. :dunno:

Here's the copy of what they did to get results from the thingamajig machine. The very bottom on left is where I pulled results from.

https://i.imgur.com/L0JQBO6h.jpg

Sorry. Been pushing a 101+ degree temp for a couple of days. In perspective, my avg body temp is 97.3, so that's high. I'll get over it.

Was looking for a red flag on the body composition measurement. If the guy was using a tape measure there would be a problem. That method went out in the 90s.

I do not know what the going rate for a personal trainer is in NY. Nor anywhere else, for that matter. That you would have to research for yourself. What I can offer, as touched on before:

It sounds as if you are getting the results you asked for. Unless you find this guy is charging way more than the average, think about what you are getting for your money. Apparently, you get along with the guy at least enough to get through your workouts. That's priceless to me. I don't care if the guy trained Chris Hemsworth to look like Thor if I can't stand the asshole he's toast.

Again, you're paying for what he knows and you don't. You're paying the gym's utilities and for space and equipment. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

More importantly, the fact that you are paying the trainer gives you motivation to show up. He keeps you motivated and focused. If he's good, when you stall out, he'll have some tricks to kickstart you back into gear.

If you learn what you are being taught as opposed to just doing what you are told, you'll know when it's time to move on. Some people always need that trainer to kick their ass in gear and that's fine. Just as some don't have the space to set up their own home gym. I've kept my entire Olympic set in the hall closet and busted it out every day and worked out in the living room in some of the apartments I've lived in:laugh:

Whatever it takes to achieve the results you desire is how I look at it.

[SassyLady]

I'm paying $55 for 25 min for 3x/mon for 6 months. I've only had 2 sessions. I'm sore but not impressed yet with my trainer.