U.S., European officials broach topic of peace negotiations with Ukraine

[revelarts]

U.S., European officials broach topic of peace negotiations with Ukraine,
sources say
The conversations have included very broad outlines of what Ukraine might need to give up to reach a deal with Russia.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/us-european-officials-broach-topic-peace-negotiations-ukraine-sources-rcna123628


....
Oh noo! PEACE TALKS. Just like Chamberlin!
So this is the beginning of the end.
Now Russia will now take over Poland, France, Czechoslovakia, Germany, Finland, Sweden, Greenland, India and the THE USA!
That's what Putin said... somewhere. That's at least what anyone with any sense knows he really means to do!

1st he rigged the U.S. Elections for Trump and now he's going to take over the world.
Thanks too Biden, for being so weak and not sending MORE Billions and More Weapons and More "Advisors" and More Logistical Support for 20 years or more until they win!
for freedom.

[revelarts]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/mcYcLtU4ezU?feature=share

[Gunny]

As predicted:rolleyes: Give up your land for an empty promise from the criminal that started the crap. Can always count on pussy Euro's and Americans to try to find and easy way out instead of finishing the job.

Beyond contempt.

[revelarts]

As predicted:rolleyes: Give up your land for an empty promise from the criminal that started the crap. Can always count on pussy Euro's and Americans to try to find and easy way out instead of finishing the job.

Beyond contempt.

If you were the CiC what would you do that would insure Ukraine's victory Gunny?
And how long and how much $$ do you think it would take?
Also how many lives, Ukrainian, Euro and American, do you think should be thrown into the grinder for victory?
There are about 36 million Ukrainians, how many should be scarified for victory? 1 million, 5, 10?
To get them back to the level of freedom where they again known as the most corrupt "democratic" nation in Europe.

Should they fight to the last person and just leave it for the Russians after they are all dead, to show they aren't cowards?

serious questions.
Hopefully you'll give me an answer or 2.
As a brave person yourself who doesn't turn from difficult challenges.

[Gunny]

If you were the CiC what would you do that would insure Ukraine's victory Gunny?
And how long and how much $$ do you think it would take?
Also how many lives, Ukrainian, Euro and American, do you think should be thrown into the grinder for victory?
There are about 36 million Ukrainians, how many should be scarified for victory? 1 million, 5, 10?
To get them back to the level of freedom where they again known as the most corrupt "democratic" nation in Europe.

Should they fight to the last person and just leave it for the Russians after they are all dead, to show they aren't cowards?

serious questions.
Hopefully you'll give me an answer or 2.
As a brave person yourself who doesn't turn from difficult challenges.I'll answer your questions with one of my own and an observation:

What is your freedom worth to you?

People who are unwilling to fight for their freedoms soon will have none and deservedly so. So people who take the freedom they have for granted yet will not support the same for others deserve to suffer their fate.

Fair is fair.

[revelarts]

I'll answer your questions with one of my own and an observation:

What is your freedom worth to you?

People who are unwilling to fight for their freedoms soon will have none and deservedly so. So people who take the freedom they have for granted yet will not support the same for others deserve to suffer their fate.

Fair is fair.

You've told me on several occasions that there is no real freedom.
On other occasions you've asked me which freedoms have I lost. The implied assumption being that, as an American, I have not really lost any.
And on other occasions you've said that we will probably never get back the freedoms that I've complained we've lost in the U.S..

So what freedom are you asking we should fight for exactly?

Seems to me with Ukraine many of the people in the U.S. are willing to send money and arms so that the UKRAINIANS can die fighting the Russians "so we don't have to fight them here".

Ask me if I think the Ukraine war was contrived and only sold as a fight for "freedom"? (Like the Contras, and Iraq, and Afghanistan, and "the war on terror" and bombing Libya, and Syria etc. etc.)
Real freedom is worth a lot to me.
But 20 years of meddling in another country's "free" elections, putting in weapons system and bio-labs next to Russia, helping Ukraine kill many of it's own Russian speaking citizens and pretending to be shocked when Russia also decides to meddle.
Then the U.S. starts crying about "freedom"?
Sorry, no. I'm not willing to pretend it's about freedom.

You can Ignore the facts i've mentioned & more and then act as if NONE of that matters.
You might believe that Zelinski is more than U.S./Western puppet only being used to weaken Russia on the bones of MORE Ukrainians.
Believe what you will.
But I can not, with any honesty, pretend that the Ukrainian fight is for "freedom" Gunny.

So could you... answer my questions please, "fair is fair".

If you were the CiC what would you do that would insure Ukraine's victory?
And how long and how much $$ do you think it would take?
Also how many lives, Ukrainian, Euro and American, do you think should be thrown into the grinder for victory?
There are about 36 million Ukrainians, how many should be scarified for victory? 1 million, 5, 10?
How many years? 10, 20, 30, 100?
To get them back to the level of freedom where they again known as the most corrupt "democratic" nation in Europe.

Should they fight to the last person and just leave it for the Russians after they are all dead, to show they aren't cowards?
.

Idealism about freedom is what you say I have.
These are practical questions that a reality based person like yourself should want to address.
"Real World" war winning tactics, real cost, real lives, real timetable?

[Gunny]

You've told me on several occasions that there is no real freedom.
On other occasions you've asked me which freedoms have I lost. The implied assumption being that, as an American, I have not really lost any.
And on other occasions you've said that we will probably never get back the freedoms that I've complained we've lost in the U.S..

So what freedom are you asking we should fight for exactly?

Seems to me with Ukraine many of the people in the U.S. are willing to send money and arms so that the UKRAINIANS can die fighting the Russians "so we don't have to fight them here".

Ask me if I think the Ukraine war was contrived and only sold as a fight for "freedom"? (Like the Contras, and Iraq, and Afghanistan, and "the war on terror" and bombing Libya, and Syria etc. etc.)
Real freedom is worth a lot to me.
But 20 years of meddling in another country's "free" elections, putting in weapons system and bio-labs next to Russia, helping Ukraine kill many of it's own Russian speaking citizens and pretending to be shocked when Russia also decides to meddle.
Then the U.S. starts crying about "freedom"?
Sorry, no. I'm not willing to pretend it's about freedom.

You can Ignore the facts i've mentioned & more and then act as if NONE of that matters.
You might believe that Zelinski is more than U.S./Western puppet only being used to weaken Russia on the bones of MORE Ukrainians.
Believe what you will.
But I can not, with any honesty, pretend that the Ukrainian fight is for "freedom" Gunny.

So could you... answer my questions please, "fair is fair".

If you were the CiC what would you do that would insure Ukraine's victory?
And how long and how much $$ do you think it would take?
Also how many lives, Ukrainian, Euro and American, do you think should be thrown into the grinder for victory?
There are about 36 million Ukrainians, how many should be scarified for victory? 1 million, 5, 10?
How many years? 10, 20, 30, 100?
To get them back to the level of freedom where they again known as the most corrupt "democratic" nation in Europe.

Should they fight to the last person and just leave it for the Russians after they are all dead, to show they aren't cowards?
.

Idealism about freedom is what you say I have.
These are practical questions that a reality based person like yourself should want to address.
"Real World" war winning tactics, real cost, real lives, real timetable?You could complicate boiling water. And repeat it over and over.

Try to keep the context. "Freedom" is relative. A separate topic. Freedom, for the purposes of this discussion is relative freedom/democracy vs authoritarian tyranny. That thing a bunch of farmers fought for against the the most powerful nation in the World on land where you probably sit?

The People of Ukraine voted out their corrupt, Russian puppets and put people in their place who support Democracy. You then expect perfection, focusing on what-all YOU think is wrong, when there is no such thing as perfection in government anywhere in this World, to include that clusterfuck currently occupying DC.

I'm not trying to complicate boiling water. If you support freedom in whatever way your shifting, semantical use of the term works for you, then you support it for all. If you support it selectively, then we don't agree and you are wrong.

You don't want to give the people of Ukraine even the chance to succeed or fail. Rather, you would see them enslaved to a totalitarian oligarchy because you don't want to be bothered by them as their plight isn't in your neighborhood. You are playing the same "no slippery slope" game you constantly decry.

There is nothing practical about your reasoning. Not even logical when you add circumstance. History and the law of probability refute your argument. On a "selfish note": would you rather spend American dollars or American lives?

[revelarts]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-iqAfNXQAAaOq_?format=png&name=small

https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1722034150595522695

[Gunny]

See my sig:

“When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke