Jordan Throws In Towel-At Least Until January

[Kathianne]

https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/house-gop-to-take-third-speaker-vote-as-jordan-s-hopes-dwindle


Jordan cancels third speaker's vote, will back McHenry until January
The House of Representatives will not hold a third vote on Thursday for House Speaker after the Ohio Republican lost the first two votes. Jordan is expected to back a move to temporarily empower Speaker Pro Tempore Patrick McHenry as a stopgap measure.

BREAKING NEWS 43 min(s) ago
Jordan to cancel third vote, will back McHenry until January
Rep. Jim Jordan, R-Ohio, enters of the offices of the Speaker of the House after Republicans failed for a second time to elect him to be the new House speaker, at the Capitol in Washington, Wednesday, Oct. 18, 2023. (AP Photo/Mark Schiefelbein)


House Judiciary Chairman Jim Jordan will cancel the third vote to elect a speaker in the House of Representatives, and will back a move to empower House Speaker Pro Tempore Patrick McHenry until January, Fox News Digital has confirmed.


Jordan lost support on the second ballot yesterday -- scoring only 199 votes yesterday after getting only 200 in the first ballot.


He needed 217 to become speaker, and could afford few Republican defections. Fox News was told he was expected to lose further votes in a ballot on Thursday.


Jordan's team had said they intended to keep going with a third vote, with supporters optimistic that he could gain support. However, there had also been other potential candidates emerging from the wings amid the stalemate.


Republicans had held a closed-door meeting at 11am amid escalating tensions within the House GOP, with several of Jordan’s critics stating that they had gotten credible threats because they did not vote for him for speaker. Jordan has repeatedly condemned those threats.


Fox News' Elizabeth Elkind contributed to this report.


As Jordan bid falters, other potential speaker candidates emerge
The morning sun illuminates the House of Representatives at the Capitol in Washington, Thursday, Oct. 19, 2023. (AP Photo/J. Scott Applewhite)


Potential challengers are waiting in the wings for Judiciary Chairman Jim Jordan, R-Ohio, to step away from the race for House speaker after he failed to clinch a majority of support in back-to-back House-wide votes.


Rep. Jack Bergman, R-Mich., a retired Marine Corps general, is "prepared" to step into the race if Jordan falters, his spokesman told Fox News Digital. Bergman had supported Jordan throughout his run for speaker."


Following the second round of voting, the General was approached by colleagues and has had conversations about a possible Speaker run — it’s becoming clear Rep. Jordan’s path is narrowing by the hour," the spokesman said.


"We cannot go another day without a Speaker. He simply doesn’t have the votes — we need to have a frank discussion as a conference about a path forward. If as a conference we see he can’t get the necessary votes to become Speaker, General Bergman is prepared to step up."


Bergman is seeking to cast himself as a stable force to lead the House until the new term begins in 2025.


"The General isn’t seeking to climb the ladder, only steady it in a time of chaos — and would only seek to be Speaker for the remainder of the 118th Congress," his spokesman said. "Rep. Bergman served our Nation for 40 years in the United States Marine Corps — retiring as a Lt. General. He knows how to put others first to accomplish the task at hand."House GOP Conference Vice Chair Mike Johnson, R-La., is also fielding calls from colleagues for a run for speaker in case Jordan bows out, a source familiar with his plans told Fox News Digital.

[hjmick]

What a dumpster fire...


Gaetz should apologize to the nation for the damage he and his seven cohorts have caused by teaming with the Democrats to crash the House...


At this point, Hakeem Jeffries may be the best choice...



I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit...

[Gunny]

What a dumpster fire...


Gaetz should apologize to the nation for the damage he and his seven cohorts have caused by teaming with the Democrats to crash the House...


At this point, Hakeem Jeffries may be the best choice...



I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit...Gaetz is too busy sending pleas for money on Parler because he's under attack.

[Kathianne]

What a dumpster fire...


Gaetz should apologize to the nation for the damage he and his seven cohorts have caused by teaming with the Democrats to crash the House...


At this point, Hakeem Jeffries may be the best choice...



I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit...

Gaetz made money off of the chaos, so he's happy. Seems most of his chaos lovers find this great also. I'm so lost at how all this 'shaking things up' is accomplishing anything other than chaos. But, that seems to be their stated goal.

[Kathianne]

Gaetz is too busy sending pleas for money on Parler because he's under attack.
and to my inbox, where I reply with expletives.

[Gunny]

https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/house-gop-to-take-third-speaker-vote-as-jordan-s-hopes-dwindleAlmost afraid t ask if we know anything about McHenry. There's supposed to be a diamond somewhere in the Cracker Jacks but I haven't had so much as a glimpse:rolleyes:

[Kathianne]

Almost afraid t ask if we know anything about McHenry. There's supposed to be a diamond somewhere in the Cracker Jacks but I haven't had so much as a glimpse:rolleyes:


Found this:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/18/who-is-patrick-mchenry-views-temporary-house-speaker




Who is temporary House speaker Patrick McHenry?
North Carolina congressman has been leading House since Kevin McCarthy’s ousting, and some want him to stay in role


Rachel Leingang
Wed 18 Oct 2023 16.17 EDT
The speaker pro tempore, Patrick McHenry, who has been presiding over the US House of Representatives for the past two weeks after Kevin McCarthy was ousted, could become the next actual speaker, at least temporarily.


Efforts by Republicans to elect a new speaker have stalled after a top contender, the congressman Jim Jordan, repeatedly failed to get enough votes, leaving the chamber without a leader and sitting largely idle on congressional work for two weeks.


Middle-aged white man in yellow tie and suit looking grim between two white men looking down
What to know about the US House speaker election
Read more
The father of three with a penchant for bow ties was thrown into the spotlight after McCarthy’s ouster, when McHenry slammed a gavel hard enough to go viral. The North Carolina congressman has since “wielded the gavel with extreme care, making no attempts to test the limits of his unusual role”, the Associated Press noted, basically just gaveling in and out quickly.


In the latest idea to resume a semblance of normalcy and allow Congress to pass bills, some want to see McHenry given more power for a while instead of waiting on further rounds of speakership votes. Currently, a temporary speaker’s role is presumed to be more limited than an elected speaker, though the exact abilities of the odd position McHenry occupies have been cause for debate. The high-profile former Republican speakers John Boehner and Newt Gingrich like the plan.


The 47-year-old, a Republican, was once the youngest member of Congress, first elected in 2004 at the age of 29. He is now in his 10th term representing North Carolina’s 10th congressional district and chairs the committee on financial services. His political career is long: before Congress, he served in the North Carolina house of representatives and he worked on the former president George W Bush’s 2000 campaign.


While the top contenders for the speakership have, at least to some degree, cast doubt on the 2020 election, McHenry voted to certify Joe Biden’s 2020 win. McHenry helped McCarthy become speaker and was a key negotiator in the debt limit deal that got McCarthy booted by the far-right flank of the Republican party. But he also, soon after taking the interim role, ordered the former speaker Nancy Pelosi, a Democrat, to vacate her office in a “sharp departure from tradition”, Pelosi charged.


Beyond his new high-profile placement, the lifelong North Carolinian says his most important role in Congress is to “listen to the voters of the 10th district and act as their voice in Washington” and “to provide the highest level of constituent services at home in western North Carolina”.


McHenry also saved a child from choking earlier this year, when he helped the congressman Mike Lawler’s 15-month-old at an event. Lawler praised McHenry as a “good friend” who “became the favorite congressman in my household for my wife”, Lawler said.

[Gunny]

Found this:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/18/who-is-patrick-mchenry-views-temporary-house-speakerHe'll never fly. He sounds too normal:)

[Kathianne]

If dems hang tough and GOP continues its norm, Jeffries may be in:

https://www.wsj.com/politics/gop-weighs-giving-patrick-mchenry-more-powers-as-jim-jordans-speaker-bid-fades-71f404d4?st=8xfhhcg7t2wmmo0&reflink=mobilewebshare_permalink

[SassyLady]

He's a career politician like so many up there.

[Kathianne]

He's a career politician like so many up there.

16 years, no bills passed. Running for speaker. You'd call him what? Freedom fighter?

[Gunny]

Have to wonder what part of the Republican plan where any Republican gets over is yield power to a Dem? Sorry, but there is something just plain dumb about these Freedom Caucus folk. We get out way or burn it down?

I'll be surprised if Republicans maintain control of the House in 24, regardless anything else.

[SassyLady]

16 years, no bills passed. Running for speaker. You'd call him what? Freedom fighter?
I was referring to temp speaker. He's a McCarthy ally and a career politician.

Kathy ... I'm tired of the one party system in DC. I'm pretty much for anyone that can disrupt it to shine a light on the corruption and collusion. Call it freedom fighting if you will. Better than being a sheep and going with the flow because of blackmail or bribes.

[fj1200]

I was referring to temp speaker. He's a McCarthy ally and a career politician.

Kathy ... I'm tired of the one party system in DC. I'm pretty much for anyone that can disrupt it to shine a light on the corruption and collusion. Call it freedom fighting if you will. Better than being a sheep and going with the flow because of blackmail or bribes.

Is that code for doesn't-do-S*-without-a-plan? Because nothing these past two weeks has done anything to advance whatever it is you want.

[Kathianne]

Is that code for doesn't-do-S*-without-a-plan? Because nothing these past two weeks has done anything to advance whatever it is you want.

Therein is my problem. Everyone I know that is in agreement with the shake 'em up; no business as usual; stop the steal; deep state all want something different. I never hear anything that makes sense, much less has actual people worth voting for.

When I ask, "So just want to burn it all down, start from scratch?" Well, no..." At that point people get mad at me.

[SassyLady]

Therein is my problem. Everyone I know that is in agreement with the shake 'em up; no business as usual; stop the steal; deep state all want something different. I never hear anything that makes sense, much less has actual people worth voting for.

When I ask, "So just want to burn it all down, start from scratch?" Well, no..." At that point people get mad at me.
Because you think if it's not business as usual it's a bad thing.

Thousands of organizations go through periods of turmoil and come out on the other side. I would venture the majority come out better.

The corruption is like a cancer and needs to be cut out. The body will suffer either way but will 100% die if it's not dealt with.

[SassyLady]

Jordan still in the fight.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/10/developing-jordan-expects-another-speaker-vote-today-seeks/

[Kathianne]

Jordan still in the fight.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/10/developing-jordan-expects-another-speaker-vote-today-seeks/

I would suggest Jordan refrain from Hoff's use of RINO. might not go over well.

[SassyLady]

I would suggest Jordan refrain from Hoff's use of RINO. might not go over well.
Why?

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/10/exclusive-13-22-rino-holdouts-derailing-jim-jordan/

[Kathianne]

Why?

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/10/exclusive-13-22-rino-holdouts-derailing-jim-jordan/

For the simple reason that Republicans, conservatives can have different beliefs than a Jim Jordan or Jim Hoff and still be Republicans. I think calling anarchists what they are, not presumptive classic Republican is certainly more appropriate. Simply being louder and more extreme doesn't make them right or correct.

[SassyLady]

For the simple reason that Republicans, conservatives can have different beliefs than a Jim Jordan or Jim Hoff and still be Republicans. I think calling anarchists what they are, not presumptive classic Republican is certainly more appropriate. Simply being louder and more extreme doesn't make them right or correct.

So you call people I like anarchists (i call them patriots who want to put America first and not globalisrs) and I call people you like rhino ....

To me a rhino is one who is part of the uni party ... can't tell them apart from liberals.

I like both Jim's. I think they are more in touch with the majority of conservatives than Scalise or McCarthy. Or Rove and Boehner.

[Kathianne]

So you call people I like anarchists (i call them patriots who want to put America first and not globalisrs) and I call people you like rhino ....

To me a rhino is one who is part of the uni party ... can't tell them apart from liberals.

I like both Jim's. I think they are more in touch with the majority of conservatives than Scalise or McCarthy. Or Rove and Boehner.

Bottom line, while you and I trade names, the dems are going to win. I've always been more of the opinion that both within and across party lines, talking is the only way to get anything done.

Extreme are the liberals protesting, on verge of rioting for Hamas. Extreme for the right is what is going on in House. Even in extremism the dems far outdo.

[fj1200]

RINO is a stupid term with stupid usage.

[Kathianne]

So you call people I like anarchists (i call them patriots who want to put America first and not globalisrs) and I call people you like rhino ....

To me a rhino is one who is part of the uni party ... can't tell them apart from liberals.

I like both Jim's. I think they are more in touch with the majority of conservatives than Scalise or McCarthy. Or Rove and Boehner.

And so weird that Jordan turns to McCarthy to give him a Hail Mary speech today. Then again, unsurprising, as Jordan backed McCarthy. I guess Jordan is hoping McCarthy has enough touch to help him get elected.

[SassyLady]

RINO is a stupid term with stupid usage.

I think it's pretty effective.

Romney, Cheney, Kinzinger, are examples.

[Kathianne]

I think it's pretty effective.

Romney, Cheney, Kinzinger, are examples.

Romney and Kinzinger certainly would seem more at home with Democrats on many issues, same with Trump, likely for many of same reasons. Living as adults in blue areas, that focus on issues of interest to their constituents.

Cheney? Not so much.

McCarthy, Scalise? Not at all. Compromise is not wrong, it's part and parcel of governing.

[SassyLady]

Romney and Kinzinger certainly would seem more at home with Democrats on many issues, same with Trump, likely for many of same reasons. Living as adults in blue areas, that focus on issues of interest to their constituents.

Cheney? Not so much.

McCarthy, Scalise? Not at all. Compromise is not wrong, it's part and parcel of governing.

Cheney thought Democrats would switch parties to vote for her.

[fj1200]

I think it's pretty effective.

Romney, Cheney, Kinzinger, are examples.

If you're a populist with little understanding of history. It wasn't too long ago that the best that could be said about trump was that he was a RINO. Now it's down to anyone who wants to claim the mantle of "Republican" calls anyone who opposes them a RINO. It's divisive and counterproductive.

[SassyLady]

If you're a populist with little understanding of history. It wasn't too long ago that the best that could be said about trump was that he was a RINO. Now it's down to anyone who wants to claim the mantle of "Republican" calls anyone who opposes them a RINO. It's divisive and counterproductive.
Rinos are also people who take money from people like Soros and FTX.

I'm OK with you calling me a populist. Andrew Jackson was a populist as well.

[Kathianne]

Cheney thought Democrats would switch parties to vote for her.

I thought you meant her father.

She stood for what she believed, I don't have a problem with that. She voted with Republicans well over 90% of time, but heh, she found Trump generally unacceptable and 1/6 specifically. Tried to run, but she was running in a deep Trump state.

[SassyLady]

I thought you meant her father.

She stood for what she believed, I don't have a problem with that. She voted with Republicans well over 90% of time, but heh, she found Trump generally unacceptable and 1/6 specifically. Tried to run, but she was running in a deep Trump state.

So her conservative constituents felt she wasn't representing their beliefs and values? Perhaps because she became a rino.

Oh, another Rino name just popped up. Vern Buchanan.

[fj1200]

Rinos are also people who take money from people like Soros and FTX.

I'm OK with you calling me a populist. Andrew Jackson was a populist as well.

Hey, let's just keep expanding the definition of RINO until pretty much everyone falls into it. Populism hates dissenting viewpoints. Populism is evil.

[Kathianne]

Hey, let's just keep expanding the definition of RINO until pretty much everyone falls into it. Populism hates dissenting viewpoints. Populism is evil.
Anyone who disagrees, I know I've never taken a penny from Soros, yet I'm a RINO and missed the train way back.

[SassyLady]

Hey, let's just keep expanding the definition of RINO until pretty much everyone falls into it. Populism hates dissenting viewpoints. Populism is evil.
Nope! Populism is people fed up with being governed by the elites.

Elitism v pluralism.

[SassyLady]

Anyone who disagrees, I know I've never taken a penny from Soros, yet I'm a RINO and missed the train way back.

If you think you're a rino then change your party affiliation.

[Kathianne]

If you think you're a rino then change your party affiliation.

I don't think so. However you appear to. Last I checked all of us are able to self-identify. In all honesty, have to edit, when Trump ran first time, I dropped to Independent. Haven't seen a reason to change back, I'm not an 'elitist,' but not for chaos either.

[Kathianne]

First vote: 20 no. Second 22 no. third 25 no.

Not the right direction to get speaker. But heh, what do we need any of them for?

[fj1200]

So her conservative constituents felt she wasn't representing their beliefs and values? Perhaps because she became a rino.

Oh, another Rino name just popped up. Vern Buchanan.


If you think you're a rino then change your party affiliation.

I see now. Purity standards. I thought purity standards rhymed with the left and not the right. Oh wait. They do.


Nope! Populism is people fed up with being governed by the elites.

Elitism v pluralism.

That's what populists like to think. And then the definitions keep expanding like the expanding definition of "elites."

[SassyLady]

First vote: 20 no. Second 22 no. third 25 no.

Not the right direction to get speaker. But heh, what do we need any of them for?
McCarthy lost votes first 9 rounds. It wasn't until 10th round that McCarthy gained a vote

[Kathianne]

McCarthy lost votes first 9 rounds. It wasn't until 10th round that McCarthy gained a vote
and looked what happened by leading the party of: Losing is our motto! Chaos forever!

Giving speeches and raising money for others-what a putz!

[Gunny]

Because you think if it's not business as usual it's a bad thing.

Thousands of organizations go through periods of turmoil and come out on the other side. I would venture the majority come out better.

The corruption is like a cancer and needs to be cut out. The body will suffer either way but will 100% die if it's not dealt with.That is an incorrect assessment, from my POV.

I'm all for changing things that need to be changed. The RIGHT WAY. A way that works. A way that supports the People and the Constitution. I'm seeing none of that.

What I'm seeing is a handful of extremists willing to get nothing done rather than act like politicians, and that handful is costing the majority of conservatives a party majority in government. What they are doing is just flat stupid.

I've said this countless times over countless years: you have to win to get control THEN you get to make the rules. These nitwits are the damned RINOs. They're stupid and acting like Democrats. They may as well be democrats since they are the only ones benefitting from this (non)legislation by obstruction. In case no one's learned anything from Biden being put into office, the people are not going to put up with all this get nothing done drama and will put those idiots right back in power over it.

Trump and this handful of dimwits who apparently can't see past tomorrow are destroying the only thing that stands between the people and the fascist left.

[Kathianne]

Because you think if it's not business as usual it's a bad thing.

Thousands of organizations go through periods of turmoil and come out on the other side. I would venture the majority come out better.

The corruption is like a cancer and needs to be cut out. The body will suffer either way but will 100% die if it's not dealt with.

grand words, where do you see any of these nitwits doing surgery? Even removing a splinter? All I see are bullies, some of whom are now threatening members families via phone. https://hotair.com/karen-townsend/2023/10/20/threatening-voicemail-message-left-for-gop-lawmakers-wife-we-are-now-antifa-n586367

Seriously messed up people.

Losers

[fj1200]

Nope! Populism is people fed up with being governed by the elites.

Elitism v pluralism.

This is why there are two outcomes with Populism; either 1. Nowhere, or 2. Nowhere good.

There is zero plan in what's been going on with some ridiculous, quixotic notion that 8 representatives are going to change the course. Change is going to occur when there is a groundswell of support for particular changes. The vast majority of the Republicans, even the ones you'll throw under the bus as "RINOs," are going to vote for limitations in government but these efforts will ultimately lead to less power in Congress.

But, let's revolt against the nebulous "elites" because the "pluralists" love their SS benes.

[SassyLady]

grand words, where do you see any of these nitwits doing surgery? Even removing a splinter? All I see are bullies, some of whom are now threatening members families via phone. https://hotair.com/karen-townsend/2023/10/20/threatening-voicemail-message-left-for-gop-lawmakers-wife-we-are-now-antifa-n586367

Seriously messed up people.

Losers

They are exposing the cancer so that we the people can do the surgery through the election process. I guarantee you that more people are tuned in to what is going on in the capitol these days.

Hopefully they'll vote out those that are not voting as their constituents wanted them to.

I want politicians who are fiscally conservative. Who think twice about funding wars and pork.

I don't want my rep acting like a politician. I want them to act like America comes first. Not political pandering.

[Kathianne]

They are exposing the cancer so that we the people can do the surgery through the election process. I guarantee you that more people are tuned in to what is going on in the capitol these days.

Hopefully they'll vote out those that are not voting as their constituents wanted them to.

I want politicians who are fiscally conservative. Who think twice about funding wars and pork.

I don't want my rep acting like a politician. I want them to act like America comes first. Not political pandering.

So we're to deal with performance actors for just how long? No plans, just disruption? And we're to take fake vaccines seriously?

[Kathianne]

So we're to deal with performance actors for just how long? No plans, just disruption? And we're to take fake vaccines seriously?

Actually I expect folks to act what they are. Teachers teach. Life managers take control and help others do that. Doctors heal. Politicians should be politic.

Just because people are 'focused' on something, especially suddenly, doesn't mean they understand it, at all. Many look at surgery and get sick, they are not suddenly aware of what surgeons do.

Some professions are more prone to corruption, I would agree that politics certainly fall into that category.

Should people pay attention to those they vote for? Certainly. Does that mean they get all involved? No, not close. If they don't like what they are seeing? Call. Write letters/emails. Write to newspapers/online what have you. Run for office. Support/work for someone else's campaign.

Chaos for chaos sake? Not a plan that is well intentioned.

[SassyLady]

So we're to deal with performance actors for just how long? No plans, just disruption? And we're to take fake vaccines seriously?

Looks like it. It's fine from original 8 to at minimum 25-30 more who want disruption. Just not all for the same reasons.

[Kathianne]

Looks like it. It's fine from original 8 to at minimum 25-30 more who want disruption. Just not all for the same reasons.
Chaos breeds more chaos, not solutions. You reap what is sown.

[SassyLady]

Actually I expect folks to act what they are. Teachers teach. Life managers take control and help others do that. Doctors heal. Politicians should be politic.

Just because people are 'focused' on something, especially suddenly, doesn't mean they understand it, at all. Many look at surgery and get sick, they are not suddenly aware of what surgeons do.

Some professions are more prone to corruption, I would agree that politics certainly fall into that category.

Should people pay attention to those they vote for? Certainly. Does that mean they get all involved? No, not close. If they don't like what they are seeing? Call. Write letters/emails. Write to newspapers/online what have you. Run for office. Support/work for someone else's campaign.

Chaos for chaos sake? Not a plan that is well intentioned.

They might not be aware of what the surgeon does but they better be aware of what outcome the surgeon is getting. Change surgeons if you don't like what you see and hear.

[SassyLady]

Chaos breeds more chaos, not solutions. You reap what is sown.
Not true that chaos always breeds more chaos. Solutions do come out.

[Kathianne]

Not true that chaos always breeds more chaos. Solutions do come out.

Not without plans. If so, please elucidate.

[Kathianne]

They might not be aware of what the surgeon does but they better be aware of what outcome the surgeon is getting. Change surgeons if you don't like what you see and hear.

Changing surgeons will not change surgery. It just won't. Yes, some are more skilled, but the job is the same.

[Gunny]

Not true that chaos always breeds more chaos. Solutions do come out.At what price?

The mindset: Let's destroy the Republican party and have no representation in government because we want something different. Not occurring to those with that mindset is first and foremost, the Dems can legislate the Republicans out of existence given all the choices they have while the R's try and re-find themselves.

Second comes the fact that if Gaetz and Co are what's being offered, I don't want it. You want to off something shittier than what is already there.

[SassyLady]

Changing surgeons will not change surgery. It just won't. Yes, some are more skilled, but the job is the same.
The point being Kath ... the cancer is still there and needs to be eradicated by someone. Chose the surgeon that you trust.

One surgeon may want to take a larger margin to be on the safe side. Regardless ... the cancer needs to come out. Sometimes in a radical procedure. It's not always going to be a clean and easy surgery. Sometimes the patient will die ... either because the cancer is too far or the surgeon makes a mistake.

Either way ... cancer is not going to cure itself.

The corruption in DC, and even in world politics if you really think about it, is Stage V.

[SassyLady]

At what price?

The mindset: Let's destroy the Republican party and have no representation in government because we want something different. Not occurring to those with that mindset is first and foremost, the Dems can legislate the Republicans out of existence given all the choices they have while the R's try and re-find themselves.

Second comes the fact that if Gaetz and Co are what's being offered, I don't want it. You want to off something shittier than what is already there.

If I could I would destroy both parties.

[Kathianne]

The point being Kath ... the cancer is still there and needs to be eradicated by someone. Chose the surgeon that you trust.

One surgeon may want to take a larger margin to be on the safe side. Regardless ... the cancer needs to come out. Sometimes in a radical procedure. It's not always going to be a clean and easy surgery. Sometimes the patient will die ... either because the cancer is too far or the surgeon makes a mistake.

Either way ... cancer is not going to cure itself.

The corruption in DC, and even in world politics if you really think about it, is Stage V.

No, the point is that there are a whole lot of people who know very little or less that think they are going to fix everything by interjecting chaos will somehow root out what they are calling a cancer, which they haven't got a clue on how to address or even plan to address. They may know a bit of the constitution, may get federalism-a little, but truth is, they have little understanding of how the system works or has successfully worked before the chaos of the left decades ago, now with the chaos of the right.

Truth is, both extremes are going to usher in some awful system in which we'll long for a king at best; communism at worst. Both being preferable to the agony of what's happening now.

[Kathianne]

If I could I would destroy both parties.

That's obvious. Destroying is easy, ask a toddler. Building, improving, are hard.

[SassyLady]

That's obvious. Destroying is easy, ask a toddler. Building, improving, are hard.

Kath ... don't know if we ever discussed this. Most of my career was going into companies that were in total chaos and helping them get things moving forward. Not back on track ... that would lead to creating the same environment.

I had an owner fire his entire staff and then interviewed them next day for the openings that were created. He first had to decide what he was going to continue to allow and what he was going to change and then see who wanted to go in the new direction.

Happens all the time.

This is why I'm not afraid of chaos.

[SassyLady]

That's obvious. Destroying is easy, ask a toddler. Building, improving, are hard.

Building and improving shouldn't be feared.

[Kathianne]

Building and improving shouldn't be feared.

Should come before destruction, alas.

[SassyLady]

Should come before destruction, alas.
Not always Kath. To rebuild on same footprint taking down the entire structure had to happen.

[Kathianne]

Not always Kath. To rebuild on same footprint taking down the entire structure had to happen.

Then it wasn't worth saving. Be done. Move on.

Get rid of system, fallback is more Medicare/Medicaid, SSI payments. Otherwise the socialist life. Life is good.

[SassyLady]

Then it wasn't worth saving. Be done. Move on.

Get rid of system, fallback is more Medicare/Medicaid, SSI payments. Otherwise the socialist life. Life is good.

How do you figure?

[Kathianne]

How do you figure?

It's both parties, especially the Trump faction from the right, that is all about 'third rail' of politics. Nothing was done to curtail spending, nor expected. Trump is not/was not conservative fiscally. Government spending if not on defense/maintenance is socialist in nature. This was big spending, just not with the emphasis the left likes. Same thing, different POV.

It's not I that mimics the left, not at all. I'm for the states having the power, which really would move, if not drain the DC swamp. Trump never suggested anything about actually cleaning anything up-including voting.

[SassyLady]

It's both parties, especially the Trump faction from the right, that is all about 'third rail' of politics. Nothing was done to curtail spending, nor expected. Trump is not/was not conservative fiscally. Government spending if not on defense/maintenance is socialist in nature. This was big spending, just not with the emphasis the left likes. Same thing, different POV.

It's not I that mimics the left, not at all. I'm for the states having the power, which really would move, if not drain the DC swamp. Trump never suggested anything about actually cleaning anything up-including voting.

Good points

[SassyLady]

I think we might be in the Devolution stage.