Hamas Attacks; Israel Declares War

[Kathianne]

Not what the world needs, but it's what the world gets. Iran of course is pleased:

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/sirens-warning-incoming-rockets-sound-around-gaza-near-tel-aviv-2023-10-07/


Middle EastIsrael 'at war' as Hamas unleashes surprise attack from Gaza
By Nidal Al-Mughrabi and Maayan Lubell
October 7, 20238:04 AM MSTUpdated 20 min ago




JERUSALEM/GAZA, Oct 7 (Reuters) - Palestinian Islamist group Hamas launched the biggest attack on Israel in years on Saturday, killing dozens of people and taking hostages in a surprise assault that combined gunmen crossing into Israel with a barrage of rockets fired from the Gaza Strip.


Israel said the Iran-backed group had declared war as its army confirmed fighting with militants in several Israeli towns and military bases near Gaza, and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowed to retaliate.


"Our enemy will pay a price the type of which it has never known," he said. "We are in a war and we will win it".


Israel's N12 News reported that at least 100 Israelis were killed. A Reuters photographer saw multiple bodies lying in streets of the southern town of Sderot.


The Israeli military said it had responded with air strikes into Gaza, where witnesses reported hearing heavy explosions and multiple dead and wounded being carried into hospitals. The Israeli military said navy forces killed dozens of Palestinian militants trying to infiltrate Israel by sea.


Hamas deputy chief Saleh al-Arouri told Al Jazeera that the group was holding a big number of Israeli captives, including senior officials. He said Hamas had enough captives to make Israel free all Palestinians in its jails.


The military confirmed Israelis were being held captive in Gaza and soldiers have been killed, according to N12 and Reshet 13 news outlets.


Gaza health officials said 198 Palestinians had been killed in air strikes as bombardments hit deep into Gaza City, sending clouds of black smoke spiralling into the sky.


Hamas said the attack was driven by what it said were Israel's escalated attacks on Palestinians in the West Bank, Jerusalem and against Palestinians in Israeli prisons.


"This is the day of the greatest battle to end the last occupation on earth," Hamas military commander Mohammad Deif said, announcing the start of the operation in a broadcast on Hamas media and calling on Palestinians everywhere to fight.


Hamas advocates Israel's destruction.


GUNBATTLES IN ISRAELI TOWNS
The attack marked an unprecedented infiltration into Israel by an unknown number of Hamas gunmen crossing from the Gaza Strip, and the heaviest blow for Israel in the conflict with Palestinians since the suicide bombings of the Second Intifada some two decades ago.


Israel and Hamas fought a 10-day war in 2021.


The bloodshed came a day after Israel marked the 50th anniversary of the 1973 war that brought the country to the verge of catastrophic defeat in a surprise attack by Syria and Egypt.


The militant Islamic Jihad group said it had joined the attacks and was holding several Israeli soldiers captive. Hamas footage on its Telegram account showed its fighters pulling Israeli soldiers out of a tank.


Israeli media reported gunbattles between bands of Palestinian fighters and security forces in towns in southern Israel. Israel's police chief said there were "21 active scenes" in southern Israel.


In Gaza, people rushed to buy supplies in anticipation of days of conflict ahead. Some evacuated their homes and headed for shelters.


U.N. Middle East peace envoy Tor Wennesland condemned the attacks on Israel, warning in a statement: "This is a dangerous precipice, and I appeal to all to pull back from the brink."


The violence also drew criticism from Washington and other Western capitals.




[1/27]A rocket is fired from Gaza toward Israel, in Gaza, October 7, 2023. REUTERS/Ibraheem Abu Mustafa Acquire Licensing Rights






"The United States unequivocally condemns the unprovoked attacks by Hamas terrorists against Israeli civilians. There is never any justification for terrorism," said White House National Security Council Spokesperson Adrienne Watson.


Reuters Graphics Reuters Graphics


'PLEASE SEND HELP'
Speaking to Israel N12 News by phone from Nir Oz, a kibbutz near Gaza, a woman identified as Dorin said militants had infiltrated her house and tried to open the bomb shelter where she was hiding.


"They just came in again, please send help," she said. "There are a lot of homes harmed ... My husband is holding the door closed ... They are firing rounds of bullets."


Israeli Defence Minister Gallant said "troops are fighting against the enemy at every location" and authorised the call-up of reservists.


Footage circulating on social media appeared to show clashes in city streets as well as gunmen in jeeps roaming the countryside.


"We were told there are terrorists inside the kibbutz, we can hear gunfire," a young woman named Dvir, from Beeri Kibbutz, told Israeli Army Radio from her bomb shelter.


Hamas media displayed videos of what it said were bodies of Israeli soldiers brought into Gaza by fighters, and Palestinian gunmen inside Israeli homes and touring an Israeli town in jeeps reportedly been driven into Israel by the attackers.


Reuters was not immediately able to verify the footage.


In Gaza, the roar of rocket launches could be heard and residents reported armed clashes along the separation fence with Israel, near the southern town of Khan Younis, and said they had seen significant movement of armed fighters.


Palestinians in Gaza were bracing for Israel's response.


"We are afraid," Palestinian woman, Amal Abu Daqqa, told Reuters as she left her house in Khan Younis.


BACKDROP OF SURGING VIOLENCE
The escalation comes against a backdrop of surging violence between Israel and Palestinian militants in the West Bank, which together with the Gaza Strip is part of the territories where Palestinians have long sought to establish a state.


It also comes at a time of political upheaval in Israel, which has been riven by deep divisions over moves to overhaul the judiciary, and as Washington works to strike a deal that would normalise ties between Israel and Saudi Arabia.


Saudi Arabia's foreign ministry called for an "immediate cessation of violence between Israeli and the Palestinians", the state news agency reported.


The Iran-backed Lebanese group Hezbollah said the operation was a "decisive response to Israel's continued occupation and a message to those seeking normalisation with Israel".


An adviser to Iran's Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei congratulated Palestinian fighters for the attack.

[Gunny]

Not what the world needs, but it's what the world gets. Iran of course is pleased:

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/sirens-warning-incoming-rockets-sound-around-gaza-near-tel-aviv-2023-10-07/

Israel needs to take out the trash. Unfortunately, it will be hampered by diplomatic terrorist sympathizers, especially the ones occupying seats in the US Congress.

[Kathianne]

Israel needs to take out the trash. Unfortunately, it will be hampered by diplomatic terrorist sympathizers, especially the ones occupying seats in the US Congress.

Interestingly the first response by official administration was 'don't react in revenge,' has been taken down, but not before seen and saved:

https://twitter.com/omriceren/status/1710599560001634458?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1710599560001634458%7Ctwgr% 5Ee6fae8a428b6e0e1a8fe27da582931f76c741a14%7Ctwcon %5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fredstate.com%2Fbonchie%2F202 3%2F10%2F07%2Fwatch-horrifying-videos-out-of-israel-as-biden-administration-delivers-shockingly-grotesque-response-n2164779

[Gunny]

Since our support is unwavering in all these places, perhaps Uncle Joe should try matching his mouth with some industrial production?


President Biden (https://www.foxnews.com/category/person/joe-biden) condemned the terrorist attacks by Hamas in Israel on Saturday, calling U.S. support for Israel "rock solid and unwavering."
"This morning, I spoke with Prime Minister Netanyahu about the horrific and ongoing attacks in Israel. The United States unequivocally condemns this appalling assault against Israel by Hamas terrorists from Gaza, and I made clear to Prime Minister Netanyahu that we stand ready to offer all appropriate means of support to the Government and people of Israel," Biden said.
"Terrorism is never justified," the president continued, reiterating that Israel has a right to self defense. "The United States warns against any other party hostile to Israel seeking advantage in this situation. My Administration’s support for Israel’s security is rock solid and unwavering.
"Jill and I are keeping in our prayers all of the families who have been hurt by this violence. We are heartbroken by the lives that have been tragically cut short and hope for a swift recovery for all those who have been wounded," Biden said.
"My team and I are tracking this situation closely, and I will remain in close touch with Prime Minister Netanyahu."
https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/hamas-attack-israel-war

[Gunny]

Another take. BBC.


The US response to the unprecedented Hamas offensive has been swift and unsurprising.
Top officials, from President Biden to the secretaries of state and defense, have unequivocally condemned it, and declared their unwavering commitment to Israel’s right to defend itself.
The Pentagon added that it will work to ensure Israel has what it needs to do so.
The Biden administration has had a strained relationship with Israel’s right-wing government. It has warned about threats to Israeli democracy because of a plan to overhaul the judiciary - and criticised a particularly aggressive settler policy in the West Bank.
Tensions had begun to ease in the past month, and now US support for Israel’s response to the Hamas attacks will become the focus.
Former President Donald Trump also backed Israel’s right to defend itself with overwhelming force. And he took the opportunity to blame the Biden administration for policies he said undermined his own efforts to bring "so much peace to the Middle East" by brokering normalisation agreements between Israel and Arab countries.
In fact, the Biden administration has been negotiating a similar agreement between Saudi Arabia and Israel. Any deal would have required some concessions to the Palestinians.
The future of that initiative now depends on how the new Hamas-Israel conflict plays out.


https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67037895

[Kathianne]

Since our support is unwavering in all these places, perhaps Uncle Joe should try matching his mouth with some industrial production?

https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/hamas-attack-israel-war

From your above link. Scott is so correct, the anti-semites in Congress have funded this through Iran:


Presidential candidates react to Hamas terror attacksPresidential candidates react to Hamas terror attacks
(Photo by Oren ZIV / AFP) (Photo by OREN ZIV/AFP via Getty Images)


A variety of presidential candidates have weighed in on the developing conflict between Hamas and Israeli Defense Forces.


Most prominent in the various statements was a strong call to support retaliation against Hamas.


Former President Donald Trump, who maintained a good relationship with Israel during his tenure in the White House, called the attacks a "disgrace" and insisted that Israel should defend itself with "overwhelming force."


"Time to get back to Peace through strength. Time to get back to American leadership. Time to make sure the terrorists in Hamas and Tehran know …. America Stands With Israel," former Vice President Mike Pence, who served in the Trump administration, said.


Fellow Republicans made similar calls to action in support of Israeli retaliation.


"The dastardly terrorist attacks perpetrated against innocent Israeli civilians by Iran-backed terror group Hamas deserve a swift and lethal response," Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida wrote on social media Saturday. "Israel not only has the right to defend itself against these attacks, it has a duty to respond with overwhelming force."


"Make no mistake: Hamas is a bloodthirsty terrorist organization backed by Iran and determined to kill as many innocent lives as possible," former North Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley said in a statement Saturday morning. "The reports out of Israel are horrific with a stunning number of dead and wounded and should be universally condemned."


"I am appalled by the barbaric and medieval Hamas attacks," Ramaswamy wrote in a post to X. "Shooting civilians and kidnapping children are war crimes. Israel’s right to exist & defend itself should never be doubted and Iran-backed Hamas & Hezbollah cannot be allowed to prevail. I stand with Israel and the U.S. should too."


Most candidates also referenced President Biden in their statements, laying the blame for the attacks on his administration's decision to release over $6 billion in frozen assets to Hamas ally Iran in a prisoner swap deal.

"Biden’s appeasement of Israel’s enemies has invited this war against Israel. Appeasement anywhere never works. We must do whatever it takes to support the State of Israel in its time of grave danger, and we must end the scourge of Iran-backed terrorism," said former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie. "This terrorism is funded by Biden’s idiotic release of $6 billion to the Iranians."

Sen. Tim Scott, on a campaign stop Saturday said the US "didn’t just invite this aggression, we paid for it."


Posted by Timothy H.J. Nerozzi

[Gunny]

Interestingly the first response by official administration was 'don't react in revenge,' has been taken down, but not before seen and saved:

https://twitter.com/omriceren/status/1710599560001634458?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1710599560001634458%7Ctwgr% 5Ee6fae8a428b6e0e1a8fe27da582931f76c741a14%7Ctwcon %5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fredstate.com%2Fbonchie%2F202 3%2F10%2F07%2Fwatch-horrifying-videos-out-of-israel-as-biden-administration-delivers-shockingly-grotesque-response-n2164779

Roll with it, huh? Screw Biden. I hope Israel burns the damned place to the ground. All this screwing around placating enemies hoping they'll "see the light" has left nothing but unfinished business all over the damned World.

Let's see if the puppet masters in Iran is ready to take an open hand. Lines being drawn are getting tighter.

[NightTrain]

Time to take off the gloves and pave the strip. Hezbollah rushing the border from Lebanon - pave that shithole too.


I wonder where they got 5,000 rockets from?

I wonder where that $6 Billion was used for that Biden gave Iran?

Crazy that just last week I told Rev that we were due for another muzzie atrocity.

There's some very evil shit going down all over Israel. Rapes, executions, torture... all of it.



This is a distraction masterminded by Russia, supplied by Iran and carried out by the palestinian animals in order to take the focus off Ukraine.

I'm really very disappointed in Mossad and the CIA. This is a massive coordinated attack involving thousands of terrorists and no one knew? This is a stunning failure.

Finish the job this time, Israel. This can't continue.

[Black Diamond]

Why does Israel have to do what "we" say ? Do we consult them on how to defend ourselves? Let them lift Iran off the planet.
I think they should do just that and tell the golden Anti-semite and his apprentice to go fuck themselves.

[Gunny]

Why does Israel have to do what "we" say ? Do we consult them on how to defend ourselves? Let them lift Iran off the planet.
I think they should do just that and tell the golden Anti-semite and his apprentice to go fuck themselves.

Israel does not. A misconception begun during the 1st Gulf War. We gave Israel Patriot missile systems to defend against Saddam trying to draw Israel into the conflict, hoping it would bring the rest of the Arab nations in on the side of Iraq. Sound strategy.

Diplomatically we naturally have to whine about bloodshed which leads to today's results. We strong-arm Israel diplomatically with the threat of pulling military support.

In this case, I doubt Israel is going to listen to anyone. At least it never has in the past. They do what they have to say sorry after the fact.

[NightTrain]

Why does Israel have to do what "we" say ? Do we consult them on how to defend ourselves? Let them lift Iran off the planet.
I think they should do just that and tell the golden Anti-semite and his apprentice to go fuck themselves.

"Fuck Off" needs to be the official response to every country telling Israel to exercise restraint. Pave it. Give them 24 hours to evacuate Gaza and then pave it. After the current military response concludes.

All those Syrians, Egyptians and Lebanese can relocate to their native countries or be paved over.

[Black Diamond]

Israel does not. A misconception begun during the 1st Gulf War. We gave Israel Patriot missile systems to defend against Saddam trying to draw Israel into the conflict, hoping it would bring the rest of the Arab nations in on the side of Iraq. Sound strategy.

Diplomatically we naturally have to whine about bloodshed which leads to today's results. We strong-arm Israel diplomatically with the threat of pulling military support.

In this case, I doubt Israel is going to listen to anyone. At least it never has in the past. They do what they have to say sorry after the fact.

Well Maybe I'll evade paying taxes and send all that money to Israel.
I remember the attack on tel aviiv by saddam. Israel had to eat that and say thank you.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Time to take off the gloves and pave the strip. Hezbollah rushing the border from Lebanon - pave that shithole too.


I wonder where they got 5,000 rockets from?

I wonder where that $6 Billion was used for that Biden gave Iran?

Crazy that just last week I told Rev that we were due for another muzzie atrocity.

There's some very evil shit going down all over Israel. Rapes, executions, torture... all of it.



This is a distraction masterminded by Russia, supplied by Iran and carried out by the palestinian animals in order to take the focus off Ukraine.

I'm really very disappointed in Mossad and the CIA. This is a massive coordinated attack involving thousands of terrorists and no one knew? This is a stunning failure.

Finish the job this time, Israel. This can't continue.

Right on the mark. Several big bad players in on this bullshat. Those attacking Israel are all terrorists engaging in terrorism.
Yet we will have dems crying that they are correct!!---Tyr

[NightTrain]

Israel does not. A misconception begun during the 1st Gulf War. We gave Israel Patriot missile systems to defend against Saddam trying to draw Israel into the conflict, hoping it would bring the rest of the Arab nations in on the side of Iraq. Sound strategy.

Diplomatically we naturally have to whine about bloodshed which leads to today's results. We strong-arm Israel diplomatically with the threat of pulling military support.

In this case, I doubt Israel is going to listen to anyone. At least it never has in the past. They do what they have to say sorry after the fact.

Usually... but we've been bullying Israel for decades now to get them to play stupid games with terrorists.

This time will be different. There's unspeakable shit happening all over Israel to civilians, women and children are specifically targeted.

[Black Diamond]

Be fun to watch Pelosi try to keep the squad quiet.

[Gunny]

Usually... but we've been bullying Israel for decades now to get them to play stupid games with terrorists.

This time will be different. There's unspeakable shit happening all over Israel to civilians, women and children are specifically targeted.

I'm good with it. We're on the same sheet of music here. Israel has done more than it ever had to trying to keep the peace. In the end, keeping snakes for pets doesn't work. Burning out them and their nests works like a charm.

[Kathianne]

Usually... but we've been bullying Israel for decades now to get them to play stupid games with terrorists.

This time will be different. There's unspeakable shit happening all over Israel to civilians, women and children are specifically targeted.
https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/hamas-claims-to-have-abducted-israelis-and-taken-them-back-into-the-gaza-1fHCn0t8CPSnFK4ksDmWkg

[Black Diamond]

I think they should hit Iran before they develop a nuke. Assuming it's not too late.

[NightTrain]

I'm good with it. We're on the same sheet of music here. Israel has done more than it ever had to trying to keep the peace. In the end, keeping snakes for pets doesn't work. Burning out them and their nests works like a charm.

Unconditional Surrender. That's how you win wars.

This half-assed bullshit is how you end up in quagmires and 70 years of constant bloodshed & grief.

[Black Diamond]

Unconditional Surrender. That's how you win wars.

This half-assed bullshit is how you end up in quagmires and 70 years of constant bloodshed & grief.
Worked in Japan, to the shaggrin of the modern left.

[NightTrain]

Worked in Japan, to the shaggrin of the modern left.

Germany and Italy, too.

3 out of 3 says that's a winning formula for taking the fight out of a population and turning them into pacifists.

[NightTrain]

https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/hamas-claims-to-have-abducted-israelis-and-taken-them-back-into-the-gaza-1fHCn0t8CPSnFK4ksDmWkg

Saw that.

There's a bunch more that I've seen this morning that I wish I hadn't. Horrifying shit done to Israeli women and children.

[Gunny]

Germany and Italy, too.

3 out of 3 says that's a winning formula for taking the fight out of a population and turning them into pacifists.Got a bigger problem here. There are generations of militant Islamic extremists. Their lives have revolved around hating Israel, the US and murdering us when and where found. They have no redeeming qualities whatsoever and there is no rehabilitating them. The only way to stop them is to kill them all.

The West will never accept that as the solution and as stated, we have been paying for it for generations.

[NightTrain]

Got a bigger problem here. There are generations of militant Islamic extremists. Their lives have revolved around hating Israel, the US and murdering us when and where found. They have no redeeming qualities whatsoever and there is no rehabilitating them. The only way to stop them is to kill them all.

The West will never accept that as the solution and as stated, we have been paying for it for generations.


Agree.

That's why the only solution is to pave it.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Just 3 words to be said about the terrorist scum doing their usual actions.
KILL' EM ALL... problem solved...--:saluting2:
They are just modern nazi's, imho... --Tyr

[Black Diamond]

Just 3 words to be said about the terrorist scum doing their usual actions.
KILL' EM ALL... problem solved...--:saluting2:
They are just modern nazi's, imho... --Tyr

Well yeah there terrorists want to drive jews into the Mediterranean or kill them. Sounds like Adolf to me.

[Black Diamond]

Thank God Bibi is PM.

[NightTrain]

14481

[jimnyc]

5,000 rockets that Hamas was bragging about & 100 dead. Told ya they should just level that place. Niceties aren't getting them anywhere and terror is all they understand.

https://i.imgur.com/wUacWdlt.png

[Gunny]

5,000 rockets that Hamas was bragging about & 100 dead. Told ya they should just level that place. Niceties aren't getting them anywhere and terror is all they understand.

https://i.imgur.com/wUacWdlt.pngThat's actually really poor shooting even with "dumb" rockets. Those f*ckers couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with their rifles either. Like a drive-by here in the US, the worst place to be is innocent bystander.

[Gunny]

What should be of more concern for these dumbasses is all those hostages they took. If anyone recalls how Israel deals with hostage situation, see Entebbe, 1976. The didn't deal. They went and got them.

[Black Diamond]

What should be of more concern for these dumbasses is all those hostages they took. If anyone recalls how Israel deals with hostage situation, see Entebbe, 1976. The didn't deal. They went and got them.

With bibi there is hope they deal with it the same way.

[Black Diamond]

Thank God Bibi is PM.

My friend's response:

No shit! I guess this happens when Iran knows they've got $ 8B coming from us and our idiot president never even invites Bibi to the Whitehouse. The real question now is how long before Biden decides it's okay to stop pretending and goes back to fucking Israel.

[jimnyc]

What should be of more concern for these dumbasses is all those hostages they took. If anyone recalls how Israel deals with hostage situation, see Entebbe, 1976. The didn't deal. They went and got them.

I went and read up some on that and saw that it was Netanyahu's older brother who was the only one who died in that situation. Looks like 5 Israeli soldiers were injured and 1 death. That death was his older brother and apparently they retroactively renamed that event from "Operation Entebbe" to "Operation Thunderbird" and ultimately to "Operation Yonatan" as his brother was Yonatan Netanyahu.

I never knew about that story. That was an interesting read and amazing what the commandos did there. Gotta wonder how much this operation influenced the future and career of Benjamin? Also glad they renamed it in his honor. History will always remember him as a result.

[Kathianne]

I went and read up some on that and saw that it was Netanyahu's older brother who was the only one who died in that situation. Looks like 5 Israeli soldiers were injured and 1 death. That death was his older brother and apparently they retroactively renamed that event from "Operation Entebbe" to "Operation Thunderbird" and ultimately to "Operation Yonatan" as his brother was Yonatan Netanyahu.

I never knew about that story. That was an interesting read and amazing what the commandos did there. Gotta wonder how much this operation influenced the future and career of Benjamin? Also glad they renamed it in his honor. History will always remember him as a result.

I'm guessing we are going to see some of the 'paving' spoken of earlier and rescue attempts too. They need to knock this out before Hezbollah can join forces and move so many more Iranian provided munitions in-already working on.

[NightTrain]

Yep, there's going to be some ass kicking going down.


Update 3:52 PM Eastern


It's a near certainty that what's to come will be an IDF operation unlike any we have seen before. The messaging from Israel's top leadership is supporting that conjecture.


Israel's Minister of Defense, Yoav Gallant, made it very clear that the IDF's goal in terms of a response campaign will be far less restrained as they had been in the past. The objective will be to shatter Hamas permanently as a major threat emanating from Gaza:


"Today we saw the face of evil. The Hamas [terrorist organization] has launched a brutal attack against the citizens of the State of Israel - attacking men, women, children and the elderly, indiscriminately. Hamas will understand very quickly that it has made a mistake - a grave mistake, and will pay a [heavy] price. Fifteen years ago, as Head of the Southern Command, I came close to 'breaking the neck' [destroying] of Hamas. I was stopped by the political echelon. This phenomenon will not continue. We will change reality on the ground in Gaza for the next 50 years. What was before, will be no more. We will operate at full force. I ask Israel's citizens to remain determined and to support our security forces.”


https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/hamas-launches-unprecedented-surprise-attack-on-israel

[jimnyc]

I'm sure mossad and the government knows an awful lot about the enemy. Go in and take them out. Permanently. Take out anyone who interferes. The response SHOULD BE very heavy and very swift IMO.

I love this part:


"We will change reality on the ground in Gaza for the next 50 years. What was before, will be no more. We will operate at full force."

Someone there in Israel thinks just like I do.

[jimnyc]

Appears that onslaught is occurring right as we type. Tower blocks going down and all. I hope they just continue pounding them and of course starting with all known locations of Hamas. Netanyahu promising "mighty vengeance".

Hopefully the ground assault has long started too as I'm confident the hostages would have been a primary goal. Or they think they're dead. Bring 'em out if humanly possible but Hamas and much more needs to be decimated.

Over the years my sympathy for any "innocent" folks there has severely decreased. They want to support hamas and leave them in charge of crap, well, fu*&* them too.

[Black Diamond]

Appears that onslaught is occurring right as we type. Tower blocks going down and all. I hope they just continue pounding them and of course starting with all known locations of Hamas. Netanyahu promising "mighty vengeance".

Hopefully the ground assault has long started too as I'm confident the hostages would have been a primary goal. Or they think they're dead. Bring 'em out if humanly possible but Hamas and much more needs to be decimated.

Over the years my sympathy for any "innocent" folks there has severely decreased. They want to support hamas and leave them in charge of crap, well, fu*&* them too.

I'm afraid they'll kill the hostages and post videos of the killings online.

[Kathianne]

I heard an idiot on CNN say. "The problem will be Israel's response..." f that! The problem is Iran backed proxies. F proportional, go for scorched earth.

[jimnyc]

I'm afraid they'll kill the hostages and post videos of the killings online.

Saw a couple on Twitter already. They took a younger Israeli woman and desecrated her.

Netanyahu further stated "the enemy will pay a price he has never known", and I couldn't happen to a better bunch of folks.

I haven't fully read the thread yet but a decent amount, forgive me if I am rehashing anything already posted.

I'm going to enjoy watching the missiles hit the strip. About time they get a bit of that shock and awe. And for the scumbags still infiltrating Israeli cities, surround them and catch them alive if possible, even if a limb or 2 is missing, and strip their skins with a filet knife and then toss some salt on them.

[jimnyc]

I hears an idiot on CNN say. "The problem will be Israel's response..." f that! The problem is Iran backed proxies. F proportional, go for scorched earth.

The UN is calling for cease fire in Gaza. Fu*k them too.

[jimnyc]

300 dead and 1600 wounded and men are still inside Israel.

If thousand of rockets made their way into Israel, where was the iron dome? Why don't I see any footage of the dome protecting them from incoming like I have seen in the past?

[Kathianne]

300 dead and 1600 wounded and men are still inside Israel.

If thousand of rockets made their way into Israel, where was the iron dome? Why don't I see any footage of the dome protecting them from incoming like I have seen in the past?

I'm reading that Iron Dome prevented the vast majority from getting through. Iran has provided much better missiles than in past, but the major damage came from the people that came into Israel from Gaza and paragliders.

[Kathianne]

300 dead and 1600 wounded and men are still inside Israel.

If thousand of rockets made their way into Israel, where was the iron dome? Why don't I see any footage of the dome protecting them from incoming like I have seen in the past?

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2023/10/07/heres-netanyahus-warning-to-palestinian-civilians-in-gaza-n2629510


Here's Netanyahu's Warning to Palestinian Civilians in GazaMatt Vespa


|
October 07, 2023 5:30 PM




AP Photo/Hatem Moussa
A new war between Hamas and Israel erupted in the early morning when thousands of rockets were fired into the southern part of the country. Israel’s Iron Dome was able to neutralize most of the projectiles, but terrorist operatives were able to infiltrate Israeli territory. There are reports of killings and kidnappings; some images show a dead woman being paraded around and desecrated.


Israel is counterattacking, with hundreds of thousands of reservists being called up as the nation braces for a multi-front war. The level of sophistication regarding Hamas’ attack has captured the eye of national security experts who noted that Iran’s fingerprints being all over the equipment and training wouldn’t be a shocking development. Also, there are reports that Hamas terrorists paraglided into Israel. The death toll currently stands at 200 (via Fox News):












Israeli officials say that the death toll from Hamas’ Saturday attacks has risen to at least 200 people.


Israel declared war against Hamas after it was ambushed in a surprise mission during a major Jewish holiday, Simchat Torah. Israel responded by launching airstrikes in Gaza.


At least 1,100 people have been wounded, according to Israeli officials. Hamas soldiers also took civilians and soldiers captive in Gaza, but the exact number of hostages is unknown.


The Palestinian Health Ministry estimated that at least 198 people were killed in the Gaza Strip and that Israeli strikes wounded over 1,610 people.


The sophistication of Hamas’ attacks shocked Israel and the world. The Israeli military reports that Hamas has fired at least 3,500 rockets so far.


The rockets have also targeted central Israel – at least two people were injured by rocket attacks in Tel Aviv and a nearby town.

[Kathianne]

Now, another take on Iron Dome. Just me, but I do NOT trust the author, but it is responsive to your query:

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/robert-spencer/2023/10/07/what-went-wrong-how-hamas-managed-to-stagger-israel-n1733128


What Went Wrong? How Hamas Managed to Stagger IsraelBY ROBERT SPENCER 1:49 PM ON OCTOBER 07, 2023

What Went Wrong? How Hamas Managed to Stagger Israel
AP Photo/Craig Ruttle, File
How did Hamas, the bloodthirsty jihad terror group in Gaza, perpetrate mayhem and destruction inside Israel on a scale never before seen?


Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu announced Saturday that “since this morning, the State of Israel is at war.” This was as Hamas fired over two thousand rockets into Israel, and over a hundred Israelis were murdered as jihad terrorists entered Israel and began killing people indiscriminately.


There has never been a Hamas jihad offensive from Gaza of this magnitude. In fact, throughout the history of modern Israel, there has never been anything like this, even when the Jewish state faced jihad coalitions of the neighboring Arab states in major wars in 1948, 1967, and 1973. So how was Hamas able to do it?


For one thing, it was Shabbat in Israel, and the Jewish holiday of Simchat Torah. In that, this latest jihad resembles the 1973 war, which was launched on Yom Kippur. The idea in both cases was to catch the Israelis napping and at minimal preparedness, with large numbers of military personnel off for the holiday.


But that was by no means all. There were widespread reports that as Hamas’ relentless rocket barrage began, Israel’s vaunted Iron Dome missile defense system was down. Reports on this so far are sketchy, but if the Islamic Republic of Iran, which as the chief financier of Hamas is clearly behind these attacks, has managed to breach Israeli security and interfere with the functioning of the Iron Dome, the ominous implications cannot be overstated. If Israel cannot manage to get the Iron Dome up and running on a secure basis, the Hamas attacks on Saturday could turn into a larger war that engulfs the entire region, as the Islamic Republic of Iran finally attempts to make good on decades of genocidal rhetoric directed at Israel.


Hamas also took advantage of vulnerabilities in Israel’s defenses. As jihadis screamed “Allahu akbar,” a bulldozer destroyed Israel’s fence at the Gaza border, allowing jihadis to pour into Israel in large numbers. Hamas’ military wing, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, issued a triumphant communique on Telegram:


Under intense missile cover and targeting of the enemy’s command and control systems, the Mujahideen of the Qassam Brigades were able to cross the enemy’s defensive line and carry out a simultaneous coordinated attack on more than 50 sites in the Gaza Division and the southern region of the occupation army, which led to the overthrow of the division’s defense, and our Mujahideen are still They are [sic] fighting heroic battles in 25 locations so far, and the fighting is currently taking place at the “Ra’im” base, the headquarters of the Gaza Division.


It is a jihad of victory or martyrdom.


Why wasn’t there a full-fledged wall at the Gaza border? Well, just imagine how the Biden regime, which resumed shoveling millions to the Palestinians after Trump stopped doing so, would have reacted if the Israelis had tried to construct such a thing. They would have denounced it as another “apartheid wall” and demanded that it be dismantled.


Related: You-Know-Who Is to Blame for Hamas’ Bloody New Jihad Offensive Against Israel


The Israeli government, however, could fall as a result of this and certainly bears a great deal of responsibility. Yet here again, the ultimate fault lies with the Biden regime. Ever since Benjamin Netanyahu was reelected prime minister and embarked upon efforts to reform the Israeli judiciary, the Bidenites have been undermining him in every way possible, and have even been accused of funding the massive protests in Israel against the Netanyahu government.


How much of what Hamas was able to get away with on Saturday was the result of the U.S. pressure upon Israel and favoring of the Palestinians, as the American government turned a blind eye to the genocidal jihad rhetoric that permeates the Palestinian areas every day? How distracted was the Israeli government in having to spend the bulk of its time on internal disagreements that the Biden regime had exacerbated instead of paying the necessary attention to national defense?


Old Joe Biden finally shuffled out of bed and issued a pro-Israel statement shortly after 11 a.m. ET on Saturday. It is unlikely, however, that the regime for which he is the bumbling, semi-coherent figurehead will depart from its ordinary practice of urging “restraint” upon Israel and condemning it for a “disproportionate” response once the Jewish state takes even the smallest measures to defend itself.


As I explained here, the Biden regime brought about the current situation. Now it should have the residual decency to get out of the way and let Israel do what it must do in order to survive. But yes, “Biden” and “decency” are two phenomena that have never met, and never will meet.

[jimnyc]

I'm reading that Iron Dome prevented the vast majority from getting through. Iran has provided much better missiles than in past, but the major damage came from the people that came into Israel from Gaza and paragliders.

Yeah, I'm reading many many sites and watching video too. Glad to hear about the dome. Now they have to worry about the taliban getting help there somehow with 80 billion dollars in equipment for them. They have asked Iran for permission to cut through apparently. Everyone is calling for restraint from Israel but I have yet to see any of these countries or folks telling Hamas any of that? And if Iran were to assist in any manner, then I hope Israel sees that as an act against their country and responds.

I agree more so now that I think of it Kath, restraint my ass. Missiles/rockets, kidnapping & death can only be responded to in one manner. And it sure as shit it isn't by having another cease fire stupid agreement or discussion just so that they can bide time and plan shit like this. It's a never ending cycle that will never stop unless Israeli finally puts an end to that shit.

[Kathianne]

Yeah, I'm reading many many sites and watching video too. Glad to hear about the dome. Now they have to worry about the taliban getting help there somehow with 80 billion dollars in equipment for them. They have asked Iran for permission to cut through apparently. Everyone is calling for restraint from Israel but I have yet to see any of these countries or folks telling Hamas any of that? And if Iran were to assist in any manner, then I hope Israel sees that as an act against their country and responds.

I agree more so now that I think of it Kath, restraint my ass. Missiles/rockets, kidnapping & death can only be responded to in one manner. And it sure as shit it isn't by having another cease fire stupid agreement or discussion just so that they can bide time and plan shit like this. It's a never ending cycle that will never stop unless Israeli finally puts an end to that shit.


I don't know what Israel's capabilities are short term, short of nuclear. IMO though, they should hit super hard, even in areas now with Israeli hostages. This should be the moment that it becomes crystal that no attack will henceforth be met with proportional or less response. It will be swift, brutal, and deadly. No concern about innocents, same as Hamas and Iran.

Iran is already proven provider of weapons via Hezbollah to Hamas.

[Black Diamond]

So the UN wants Israel to tell hamas its okay to do what they did.

[Kathianne]

So the UN wants Israel to tell hamas its okay to do what they did.
f the UN!

[Black Diamond]

f the UN!

Yup I'm on board with that. Worthless organization we should neve have been a part of.

[jimnyc]

They had a lot of time and planning into this and likely assistance in planning. An attack from land/sea/air & such a large infiltration... regardless, the size of the attack shows more sophistication than their attacks in the past, and gives more reason to cut it's head off entirely.

I'm now officially in trouble at home for calling for the complete decimation of Gaza. Maybe avoid the innocent people as much as humanly possible, but leave the place looking like the Flinstones days and working at the rock quarry using dinosaur tools.

[Black Diamond]

Shock and awe.

[Kathianne]

Yup I'm on board with that. Worthless organization we should neve have been a part of.

The idea was good, execution was awful. There is unlikely a more corrupt body on the planet, including China or Iran.

BTW, I'm actually heading towards the idea that Israel should refuse medical care to Palestinians inside Israel's borders. Hamas infiltrators that are injured are being treated in Israeli hospitals, while Israeli defenders and innocents are being taken hostage.

Let the Palestinians bleed out, whether 20 years or 10. They use children as soldiers.

[Black Diamond]

Here's someone's rant I just picked up.

🚨BREAKING NEWS🚨
🔺️Hezbollah just released a statement saying they are in "direct contact with the leadership of the Palestinian resistance."
They also said that if Israel attacks Hamas the Iranian group will invade.
🔺️We keep hearing that Joe Biden's actions had nothing to do with this. Well, they did. Joe Biden has shown the world how weak he is.
On the anniversary of 9/11 Joe Biden released $6 Billion of Iran's money. The same anniversary when Joe Biden decided to not attend a single ceremony that remembers the people killed on September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks that killed just under 3,000 people.
🔺️It's not just Joe Biden's weakness & ineptitude that led to this terrorist attack in Israel & the war that will follow. It's his appeasement to our enemies.
We also have numerous Democrats who regularly spew antiSemitic rhetoric. People like Ilhan Omar & Rashida Tlaib make their hate for Israel very clear.
🔺️Our enemies are watching. They were watching when Joe Biden released $6 billion to a terrorist state & they are still watching as a weak president stumbles around & spews his incoherent rhetoric for the world to see.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

This should be called the, ""Six Billion Dollar War" , and laid directly on the blithering idiot Herr Biden's damn doorstep. imho.
I had been thinking either Iran or some of the other Israelies hating enemies would pull something like this before idiot Herr Biden is kicked out of the President's office.-Tyr

[jimnyc]

Palestinians are apparently hootin and hollerin and beeping horns and flying flags. Myself, I haven't forgotten how they have done this before, and on 9/11 as well. If anyone thinks the palestinian people are fully innocent, I don't think they are. Maybe if you look hard enough but then they start the building of the hatred at a very young age. And a hatred of Jews are a way of life for almost every palestinian/muslim. They will preach that they are peaceful but actions speak otherwise. Even the few muslims I know, I don't trust and I know they hate jewish people. They eat babies, so I'm told. :rolleyes:

[Black Diamond]

Imagine if the UN told usa to ceasefire after 911.

[Black Diamond]

Palestinians are apparently hootin and hollerin and beeping horns and flying flags. Myself, I haven't forgotten how they have done this before, and on 9/11 as well. If anyone thinks the palestinian people are fully innocent, I don't think they are. Maybe if you look hard enough but then they start the building of the hatred at a very young age. And a hatred of Jews are a way of life for almost every palestinian/muslim. They will preach that they are peaceful but actions speak otherwise. Even the few muslims I know, I don't trust and I know they hate jewish people. They eat babies, so I'm told. :rolleyes:

Yeah I'm hoping for some serious destruction over the next few weeks

[Kathianne]

Palestinians are apparently hootin and hollerin and beeping horns and flying flags. Myself, I haven't forgotten how they have done this before, and on 9/11 as well. If anyone thinks the palestinian people are fully innocent, I don't think they are. Maybe if you look hard enough but then they start the building of the hatred at a very young age. And a hatred of Jews are a way of life for almost every palestinian/muslim. They will preach that they are peaceful but actions speak otherwise. Even the few muslims I know, I don't trust and I know they hate jewish people. They eat babies, so I'm told. :rolleyes:

Reports in London and Paris that cars bearing Palestinians flags were honking and cheering. Not going over well by others.

I'm hoping that the convoys of tanks I saw a few hours ago are soon on ground and taking the hurt to Palestinians. I no longer am thinking of 'civilians' at this point. They gave up the victim card when they allow this over and over again. Serious-scorched earth.

[jimnyc]

Netanyahu vows to turn Gaza into 'rubble': Israeli PM tells Palestinians to 'leave now' and says Hamas will pay an 'unprecedented price' after they kidnapped grans and launched shocking attack that has left hundreds dead on both sides

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12605083/hamas-gunmen-kidnap-israeli-grandmothers-gaza-strip-reports-civilians-golf-carts.html


Rubble sounds like me too, you know, Barney Rubble from the Flintstones!!

Well, this is what happens when you use terror to infiltrate and murder people, then kidnap men women and children to abuse for the cameras and who knows what else, if most aren't dead already. But I hope they don't think they are going to negotiate with anyone for their release. These poor people may not survive this whole thing now that they have been kidnapped, but Hamas will equally be met with more force now and hopefully eliminated.

[Kathianne]

The more I'm reading, the angrier I'm getting. I need to take a break, I'm thinking, "bring back napalm." I mean I don't really...

[jimnyc]

Reports in London and Paris that cars bearing Palestinians flags were honking and cheering. Not going over well by others.

I'm hoping that the convoys of tanks I saw a few hours ago are soon on ground and taking the hurt to Palestinians. I no longer am thinking of 'civilians' at this point. They gave up the victim card when they allow this over and over again. Serious-scorched earth.

I must have skipped a beat in my brain, I meant to say they were doing said things in West London. That pisses me off. This whole thing pisses me off. The common denominator in terror remains the same.

[Kathianne]

Yep, the brilliant Palestinians are documenting their own war crimes. Like BLM they know they have nothing to fear:

https://hotair.com/headlines/2023/10/07/hamas-releasing-videos-of-drone-bombs-dropping-on-israeli-ambulances-n582955


Hamas releasing videos of drone bombs dropping on Israeli ambulances
TWITTER 6:50 PM on October 07, 2023


Advertisement
[Which is a “war crime.” An actual one. Just wipe them out. ~ Beege]




https://twitter.com/emilykschrader/status/1710618465210355991

[jimnyc]

The more I'm reading, the angrier I'm getting. I need to take a break, I'm thinking, "bring back napalm." I mean I don't really...

Damn, that was my line of thinking and was thinking of writing it smells like napalm in the morning, but I think I am giving away just how much movie watching I do!

[jimnyc]

Folks may want to be careful if they don't want to see photos or videos of what hamas has been doing. Much of it is being posted on Twitter. Only place I've seen such content so far. Shows the level of humanity with these vermin scumbags. Desecrating bodies and basically torturing others and parading folks for pleasure.

[Black Diamond]

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2otx2l

[Kathianne]

Folks may want to be careful if they don't want to see photos or videos of what hamas has been doing. Much of it is being posted on Twitter. Only place I've seen such content so far. Shows the level of humanity with these vermin scumbags. Desecrating bodies and basically torturing others and parading folks for pleasure.

I think people should see what those animals are doing. Meanwhile I think that Israel should hit hard and with full ability excepting nuke. No more thinking about repercussions down the road, apologize when the enemy is dead.

[Black Diamond]

Damn, that was my line of thinking and was thinking of writing it smells like napalm in the morning, but I think I am giving away just how much movie watching I do!

That smell. That gasoline smell

[Kathianne]

https://instapundit.com/609819/


OCTOBER 7, 2023GIVE ‘EM THE GENERAL SHERMAN TREATMENT: “The Palestinians who invaded Israel have focused on kidnapping civilians, mostly young women. (https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2023/10/so-much-for-peace.php) This was facilitated by the fact that there was a ‘rave for peace’ going on near Gaza that many young people attended. The Palestinians no doubt knew this, and planned to attack the event. They took a number of young women captive there. This video has been seen millions of times. There is a naked young woman in the back of a truck, murdered (and God knows what else) by the Palestinians. The Arabs in the truck are yelling ‘Allahu Akbar!’ ‘God is great!’ Terrific religion they’ve got there. What is notable, I think, is the jubilant reaction of the crowd. Note the boy who spits on the woman’s corpse. The idea that what is happening is a ‘terrorist attack’ by “Hamas” is a fiction. Hamas is a political entity that rules Gaza with the support of the overwhelming majority of the Palestinians who live there. It is much like Nazi Germany–most Germans were not members of the party, but the vast majority supported Hitler until it was clear that Germany was losing the war. Same thing here, except that until now, it hasn’t been clear that Hamas was losing. Hamas appears to command the loyalty of nearly all of Gaza’s residents.”
In other circumstances I would think this was just an effort to provoke, but in this case it’s just Palestinians being Palestinians. They don’t do this sort of thing because it’s in their interest, they do it because it’s in their nature. They’ll stop when it becomes too painful to continue, and not before.
And maybe that whole “rave for peace” idea wasn’t so good, and shouldn’t be repeated. Peace comes when a war ends, and wars usually end when one side loses decisively. That should be the Palestinians.


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Posted at 7:23 pm by Glenn Reynolds (https://instapundit.com/author/glennreynolds/)

[Kathianne]

https://instapundit.com/609819/

Great minds. Sherman=scorched earth

[Kathianne]

Obama, Biden, and Iran. Working together. Why? Intro. At the site much more:

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/iran-spy-ring-robert-malley-lee-smith


vel Iranian Spy Ring Busted in WashingtonThe trail that leads from Tehran to D.C. passes directly through the offices of Robert Malley and the International Crisis Group
BY
LEE SMITH
OCTOBER 01, 2023


BRENDAN SMIALOWSKI/AFP VIA GETTY IMAGES


The Biden administration’s now-suspended Iran envoy Robert Malley helped to fund, support, and direct an Iranian intelligence operation designed to influence the United States and allied governments, according to a trove of purloined Iranian government emails. The emails, which were reported on by veteran Wall Street Journal correspondent Jay Solomon, writing in Semafor, and by Iran International, the London-based émigré opposition outlet which is the most widely read independent news source inside Iran, were published last week after being extensively verified over a period of several months by the two outlets. They showed that Malley had helped to infiltrate an Iranian agent of influence named Ariane Tabatabai into some of the most sensitive positions in the U.S. government—first at the State Department and now the Pentagon, where she has been serving as chief of staff for the assistant secretary of defense for special operations, Christopher Maier.


On Thursday, Maier told a congressional committee that the Defense Department is “actively looking into whether all law and policy was properly followed in granting my chief of staff top secret special compartmented information.”


The emails, which were exchanged over a period of several years between Iranian regime diplomats and analysts, show that Tabatabai was part of a regime propaganda unit set up in 2014 by the Iranian Foreign Ministry. The Iran Experts Initiative (IEI) tasked operatives drawn from Iranian diaspora communities to promote Iranian interests during the clerical regime’s negotiations with the United States over its nuclear weapons program. Though several of the IEI operatives and others named in the emails have sought to portray themselves on social media as having engaged with the regime in their capacity as academic experts, or in order to promote better understanding between the United States and Iran, none has questioned the veracity of the emails.


The contents of the emails are damning, showing a group of Iranian American academics being recruited by the Iranian regime, meeting together in foreign countries to receive instructions from top regime officials, and pledging their personal loyalty to the regime. They also show how these operatives used their Iranian heritage and Western academic positions to influence U.S. policy toward Iran, first as outside “experts” and then from high-level U.S. government posts. Both inside and outside of government, the efforts of members of this circle were repeatedly supported and advanced by Malley, who served as the U.S. government’s chief interlocutor with Iran under both the Obama and the Biden administrations. Malley is also the former head of the International Crisis Group (ICG), which directly paid and credentialed several key members of the regime’s influence operation.

...

[jimnyc]

Netanyahu has also stated "you have made a grave mistake"

Why can't he run for us in 2024? I love him and his love for Israel and no apologies defense of his country and people.

[jimnyc]

Obama, Biden, and Iran.

All 3 of them can officially join the list of those to f off.

Now I am reminded why I have so many "I hate people" items.

Leave $6 billion here, leave $80+ billion in equipment here. I'll almost guarantee you that some ammunitions made there way already to the palestinians. Now they just want to bring in more people to help them fight. Start building a front on the north end like I saw online and eliminate anyone entering from the north.

I hope Israel remembers where this money went and where these weapons were left and by whom.

[Black Diamond]

All 3 of them can officially join the list of those to f off.

Now I am reminded why I have so many "I hate people" items.

Leave $6 billion here, leave $80+ billion in equipment here. I'll almost guarantee you that some ammunitions made there way already to the palestinians. Now they just want to bring in more people to help them fight. Start building a front on the north end like I saw online and eliminate anyone entering from the north.

I hope Israel remembers where this money went and where these weapons were left and by whom.

Can anyone refresh my memory about what Obama said about Israel Palestine in his audacity of hope book ? I know it wasn't good.

[NightTrain]

300 dead and 1600 wounded and men are still inside Israel.

If thousand of rockets made their way into Israel, where was the iron dome? Why don't I see any footage of the dome protecting them from incoming like I have seen in the past?


The strategy is to overwhelm missile defense. Many of those systems only have 4 or 6 intercepter missiles ready to launch per launcher.

That's why they lobbed 5,000 rockets - not even the USA could Intercept 5k rockets in the space of a few minutes. It takes time to reload.

Same strategy Russia's been using - overwhelm the defense and the last part of the wave will get through as the defenders are frantically trying to reload.

Saturate and overwhelm with impossible numbers is the new tactic. The animals have been paying attention in Ukraine, and I'm positive Russia helped plan it.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

If ever there was a time for tit for tat, this is it!
Israelis need to hit them them back at least in a 20 fold return for death and destruction.
One thing for sure, you can be your last damn nickel that the leftist/liberal idiotic Herr Biden administration is urges Israel to hold off!
FFFFKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK TTTTHHHAAATTTTT!! - :salute:

I would hit them back at least a hundred fold myself..
and maybe even more!!!--Tyr

[Gunny]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/death-toll-from-hamas-onslaught-passes-600-over-100-kidnapped-as-israel-strikes-gaza/

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-763190

[Kathianne]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/death-toll-from-hamas-onslaught-passes-600-over-100-kidnapped-as-israel-strikes-gaza/

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-763190

Hezbollah has opened a second front in Golan. Israel is going to have to hit hard, I'm sure they don't want to kill indiscriminately, unlike the proxies they'll be held responsible, but it's kill or be killed.

[Gunny]

The strategy is to overwhelm missile defense. Many of those systems only have 4 or 6 intercepter missiles ready to launch per launcher.

That's why they lobbed 5,000 rockets - not even the USA could Intercept 5k rockets in the space of a few minutes. It takes time to reload.

Same strategy Russia's been using - overwhelm the defense and the last part of the wave will get through as the defenders are frantically trying to reload.

Saturate and overwhelm with impossible numbers is the new tactic. The animals have been paying attention in Ukraine, and I'm positive Russia helped plan it.

Everyone's waiting for the "Big Bang" from Israel. Israel has to secure it's perimeter first, clearing out all the cells that have infiltrated. Once they do that and reform a line, I look for all Hell to break loose. Current airstrikes are meant to kill, but also delaying action/bid for time.

Hezbollah declaring its solidarity and praise from Iran. Israel will need to run preemptive interdiction on Hezbollah if it tries to move south. Jordan might not be a threat but it certainly isn't much of an obstacle either.

Israel needs to do just what these Arabs want to do to it: drive them into the sea.

[SassyLady]

Everyone's waiting for the "Big Bang" from Israel. Israel has to secure it's perimeter first, clearing out all the cells that have infiltrated. Once they do that and reform a line, I look for all Hell to break loose. Current airstrikes are meant to kill, but also delaying action/bid for time.

Hezbollah declaring its solidarity and praise from Iran. Israel will need to run preemptive interdiction on Hezbollah if it tries to move south. Jordan might not be a threat but it certainly isn't much of an obstacle either.

Israel needs to do just what these Arabs want to do to it: drive them into the sea.

Israel is also giving civilians in the strip time to evacuate.

[Gunny]

Israel is also giving civilians in the strip time to evacuate.Only because Israel is buying time for itself and has it to offer. If they hadn't been caught totally off-guard and were as prepared as they were in 67 and 72, the war would already be in Gaza.

Democracy has its price.

[Gunny]

The more I'm reading, the angrier I'm getting. I need to take a break, I'm thinking, "bring back napalm." I mean I don't really...Mk 77 incendiary bombs. We still use them far as I know. Basically re-designed NAPALM. Does the same thing. You DON'T want to be there.

I have no qualms with them being used on terrorists. I also feel no sympathy for Pali noncombatants. They CHOSE their leadership.

[SassyLady]

Mk 77 incendiary bombs. We still use them far as I know. Basically re-designed NAPALM. Does the same thing. You DON'T want to be there.

I have no qualms with them being used on terrorists. I also feel no sympathy for Pali noncombatants. They CHOSE their leadership.

Hostages?

[SassyLady]

Now Turkey is warning the US to not help Israel.

[Black Diamond]

Now Turkey is warning the US to not help Israel.

OK. Don't help. Don't hinder. Not sure i want bibi to receive "help" with strings and half-assed or pseudo support. Sit back and watch bibi murder those raghead bastards. We will just hold his jacket.

[SassyLady]

OK. Don't help. Don't hinder. Not sure i want bibi to receive "help" with strings and half-assed or pseudo support. Sit back and watch bibi murder those raghead bastards. We will just hold his jacket.

Too many hyenas circling the situation.

[Kathianne]

Hostages?

I'd rather they were safe, but do what's necessary now.

[Kathianne]

Now Turkey is warning the US to not help Israel.

Not their business. F turkey

[Black Diamond]

I'd rather they were sage, but do what's necessary now.

I doubt they'll be safe in any case. I'm at work, good guess on myctypo.

[Kathianne]

I doubt they'll be safe in any case.

My point exactly.

[Black Diamond]

My point exactly.

Yeah I think they're dead anyway. One video per day

[NightTrain]

My guess is now that the rampaging terrorists have been dealt with in Israel proper, Israel is launching rescue operations to save as many hostages as possible in Gaza.

Once that's completed, Paving operations can begin.

[NightTrain]

Yeah I think they're dead anyway. One video per day

Sadly, I think you're right.

[Black Diamond]

Kathianne. Berlin

14493

[Kathianne]

Israel announces that mostly the terrorists are gone from Israeli areas. Overnight Gaza was pounded. Qatar is saying it's the broker for getting hostages out of Gaza. :rolleyes:

Missiles from Lebanon/Golan via Hezbollah continue.

[Kathianne]

Reports say that a barrage of missiles from Gaza into Jerusalem happened shortly ago. It also appears that rocket fire is coming not only from North, now also from East. That would be a third front.

[Kathianne]

Only solution?

https://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=56069


The Final Solution To The Gaza ProblemLet’s look at what the most logical outcome to Hamas’ largest large scale attack on Israel might be.


You’re not going to like it.


First, some context in this Haviv Rettig Gur Times of Israel piece linked by David Bernstein at Instapundit:


It was a horror, interminable, impossible. Hour after hour, families sat huddled in their homes awaiting rescue from the Hamas fighters streaming through their towns and villages.


Families were butchered in cold blood. In one home, a terrorist shot the parents dead, took a child’s cellphone and started broadcasting it all in a livestream on their Facebook account. Grandmothers were pulled in wheelchairs to waiting vehicles ready to carry them as hostages into Gaza. Then came the mothers carrying babies. Footage circulated on social media, put there by Hamas, of an Israeli child asking his mother if the gunmen that surrounded them were going to kill them. “They said they won’t,” the mother replied as they were taken outside to some unknown fate.


The stream of videos didn’t stop. An IDF soldier’s body was paraded in Gaza. A young woman, bleeding, was pulled by the hair from a car after being kidnapped and taken into the Strip. And all of it was broadcast by Hamas to the world in joyful pride, sparking celebrations in Tehran, Ramallah and no small part of the online pro-Palestinian activist world.


And all the while came the stream of messages on Twitter and Whatsapp from Israelis still surrounded by the roving gunmen, friends and relatives begging for a rescue that never came.


Hour after agonizing hour.


Snip.


Until Saturday, Israelis believed they were strong and safe. On Saturday, they started to believe that they were neither.


In that simple shift, the Hamas attack was massively successful.


As Palestinian Islamic Jihad spokesman Abu Hamza put it while the attack was still underway: “This powerful enemy is an illusion made of dust and capable of being defeated and broken. Our heroes made the enemy small and humiliated, feeling death everywhere.”


Theories abound about Hamas’s reasons for the assault. Many suggested it was an Iranian-ordered disruption of Israeli-Saudi normalization. Others focused on internal Palestinian politics and suggested Hamas was positioning itself, even at the cost of an inevitable and crushing Israeli retaliation, as the unquestioned leader of the Palestinian struggle after Mahmoud Abbas’s death. Still others said the reasons were simpler: The two Hamas leaders in Gaza who prepared and launched the operation were military chief Muhammad Deif and political head Yihye Sinwar. The first lost his family to an Israeli airstrike aimed at him, the second sat 22 years in an Israeli prison. Neither needed an overwrought geopolitical rationale to piece together such an operation.


There is probably some truth in all these theories. All make sense. But none are how Hamas itself explained the operation in real-time.


Here lies a part of Palestinian thinking and discourse that many of Palestine’s Western defenders ignore, both because it’s a hard sell to Western audiences and because they don’t really understand it themselves. Palestinian “resistance,” as conceived by Hamas, is about much more than settlements, occupation or the Green Line. A larger theory of Islamic renewal is at work.


As he announced the start of Saturday’s attack, Hamas military commander Deif said it was meant to disrupt a planned Israeli demolition of the Al-Aqsa Mosque. And when Hamas political chief Ismail Haniyeh called on Saturday for “every Muslim everywhere and all the free people of the world to stand in this just battle in defense of Al-Aqsa and the Prophet’s mission,” he meant just that, that the fight was over holy things, over Islam’s redemptive promise.


This reclamation of Islamic dignity through the ultimate defeat of the Jews occupies a great deal of Hamas’s political thought, permeates its rhetoric and profoundly shapes its thinking about Israeli Jews and its strategy in facing Israel. Israel is more than a mere occupier or oppressor in this narrative, it is a rebellion against God and the divinely-ordained trajectory of history. And by showing Israelis in their weakness, the thinking goes, Israelis are somehow actually made weak. Redemption requires only the faith of its believers to be fulfilled, and seeing is believing.


The footage from Saturday, the snuff videos shared gleefully by Hamas supporters, including in some Western far-left circles, weren’t an aberration. Hamas gunmen didn’t get “carried away,” as some explained. They were the essence of the whole enterprise. They were Hamas’s basic message to Israelis: That they weren’t being killed and kidnapped just for tactical advantage in the struggle for Palestinian independence, but rather were being humiliated and dehumanized as traitors against God.


Snip.


The Israel that emerged from Hamas’s “Al-Aqsa Deluge” operation was different from the one that went into it. A tectonic shift had occurred in the country’s psyche. The horrors inflicted by Hamas sparked rage and an intense feeling of vulnerability. Where Hamas had always seemed an implacable but ultimately containable enemy, it had now proven it could bring the danger into Israeli homes, could slaughter children and kidnap grandmothers while all the vaunted power of the Israel Defense Forces was helpless to stop it.


Hamas had made itself an intolerable threat.


The change is so profound and palpable that many Israeli analysts, apparently assuming that Hamas understands the consequences that this psychological fallout will have for Gaza, argued on Saturday that the terror group was surprised by its own success.


“In my estimation,” tweeted analyst Avi Issacharoff, “the military and political leadership of Hamas did not expect these successes. They meant to kidnap two or three as part of a massive killing spree. But this many? Their problem is that this success may turn into a Pyrrhic victory. It seems to me there’s now a consensus in the Israeli elite and among the public that what was won’t be anymore.”


Snip.


There are many different kinds of power. There is the power of the confident, safe and strong. But there’s also the very different sort of power of the wounded, weak and desperate. These are psychological states, not objective realities. And pivoting from one to the other changes everything.


“A wounded tiger,” Arthur Golden wrote in Memoirs of a Geisha, “is a dangerous beast.”


It’s an image with a long pedigree in Israeli strategic thinking. Moshe Dayan was said to have urged Israel to act like a “wounded tiger,” unpredictable and desperate, to deter its enemies from attack.


Palestinians sometimes use the image to mock Israel or shrug off the impact of an Israeli reprisal attack.


Hamas is now putting that old adage to the test. Israelis can handle humiliation; they are less moved by the politics of honor than are their enemies. But these heirs of a collective memory forged in the fires of the 20th century cannot handle the experience of defenselessness Hamas has imposed on them. Hamas seemed to do everything possible to shift Israeli psychology from a comfortable faith in their own strength to a sense of dire vulnerability.


And it will soon learn the scale of that miscalculation. A strong Israel may tolerate a belligerent Hamas on its border; a weaker one cannot. A safe Israel can spend much time and resources worrying about the humanitarian fallout from a Gaza ground war; a more vulnerable Israel cannot.


A wounded, weakened Israel is a fiercer Israel.


Hamas was once a tolerable threat. It just made itself an intolerable one, all while convincing Israelis they are too vulnerable and weak to respond with the old restraint.


I largely agree with this analysis. Also, for the first time since the Yom Kippur War, Israel has formally declared war on Hamas, which means that what will now ensue will be a very different type of war than Operation Cast Lead.


Let’s review how Israel had tried to deal with Hamas:


Israel tried occupying Gaza. That didn’t work.
Israel tried building walls and letting Hamas run Gaza. That didn’t work.
This leads inexorably to the only viable solution for Israel to prevent Hamas attacking and murdering Israeli citizens from Gaza.


Palestinians will no longer be allowed to occupy Gaza.
No Palestinians in Gaza = No terror attacks from Gaza.


Occupation didn’t work. Coexistence didn’t work. But ethnic cleansing will.


Keep in mind, it doesn’t have to be the ethnic cleansing Nazi Germany inflicted on Europe during World War II. It could be the ethnic cleansing the Allies implemented in Europe after World War II. If you were an ethnic German east of the Oder-Neisse line, you were no longer be allowed to live where you were. If you were lucky, maybe you got to pack a few suitcases before being trucked west. That’s what happens when your nation starts an illegal war of aggression and loses.


The parallels with Hamas and Gaza are obvious.


Palestinians could be deported from the Gaza strip and replaced with Israeli settlers. Hell, Israel is rich enough that it could even financially compensate existing land owners. With Israelis running and owning everything, and no more money spent on murder tunnels and rocket attacks, Gaza would quickly transition from a clapped-out Arab city to a modern western one. In ten years, all that valuable seaside property is going to look more like the French Riviera than a Damascus slum.


And where will Israel forcibly relocate Palestinians to? Obviously the West Bank. Moreover, beyond war crime trials for the leaders, Israel doesn’t even need to slaughter Hamas footsoliders off the battlefield. They merely need to hand them over to the tender mercies of hated rival Fatah, who will no doubt be delighted to do it for them. And Palestinian-on-Palestinian bloodletting rarely makes the nightly news. In their heart of hearts, Fatah probably hates Jews almost as much as Hamas, but they no longer make such a public spectacle of their hatred. Why divert all that international guilt-geld into missiles and murder tunnels when it can be more profitably diverted to high living and Swiss bank accounts? Fatah’s current corrupt state is largely a regression to the Arab governing mean.


Would Egypt object? Formally, I’m sure. But remember that the current Egyptian government is in power because they literally deposed their own homegrown jihadist lunatics. An Israeli Gaza would probably offer Egypt a lot of economic growth possibilities, from more direct rail and road ties to be having low-labor-cost Egyptian maquiladoras for Israeli factories in Gaza.


How would the rest of the Arab World react to genteel ethnic cleansing of Gaza? The first answer is “Who cares?” The second answer is feigned indignation masking real indifference. It’s an open secret that other Arabs hate the Palestinians and treat them like dirt. No Arab state in 2023 is going to war over Gaza. The worst you’ll see is some more toothless UN resolutions, and maybe temporary suspensions of trade agreements, followed by quiet reinstatement 6 months to a year later. Hamas is backed by Saudi Arabia’s bitter rival Iran, so don’t expect many tears to be shed over their demise in Riyadh.


Expect impotent rage among European lefty types at their favorite victims/psychopathic killers getting snuffed out. But when has Europe needed an excuse to hate Jews? Europe will never forgive the Jews for Auschwitz. Expect a few mostly toothless trade sanctions and cancellation of a few meaningless cultural exchange programs. They probably won’t even suspend Israel from the Eurovision Song Contest. Plus the Russo-Ukrainian War is still going to be the top foreign policy concern in the EU for some time to come.


And the Biden Administration? Certainly the ideological core of the Democratic Party is hostile to Israel, but Biden himself has made all the proper noises condemning Hamas. U.S.-Israeli defense and intelligence cooperation goes so deep into the deep state that it’s hard to see anything short of Israel tossing nukes around to sever it. And even that might not be enough. And Biden is unlikely to want to risk alienating Jewish voters (and donors) ahead of the 2024 Presidential election.


Israel has declared war on Hamas, and countries that lose wars (as opposed to police actions) typically lose territory. Spain lost numerous overseas territories following the loss of the Spanish-American War. Today no party in Madrid demands the reconquest of Guam.


After disposing of as many Hamas fighters as it deems necessary, Fatah might be too hard pressed to deal with the sudden influx of population to launch a futile intifada to recapture Gaza. Hell, Israel might even give some West Bank settlements back in order to transfer Jewish settlers to Gaza.


Keep in mind, I’m not advocating this as a course of action (not my circus, not my monkeys). I’m saying that if Israel has finally found the existence of a jihadist death cult that periodically kidnaps, tortures and murders Israeli civilians for the crime of being Jews on its doorstep intolerable, as now appears to be the case, then this is the one course of action that logic dictates is necessary to ensure, with absolute, 100% certainty, that it never happens again.


And if Fatah does decide to follow Hamas’ path of total war against Jews? Israel can build it’s defensive wall higher and deeper. If the situation becomes intolerable in 2053, or 2073, then the same solution may come into play again.


From the river to the sea, Israel would be free…of Palestinians.

[revelarts]

a little recent History...

Hamas... Free Elections... Allies...

1/09/09 Congressman Ron Paul
words from the House floor against the resolution supporting Israel's war against Gaza

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnQbSD4Jguk

[Kathianne]

Personally, the Arab countries should accept and assimilate the Palestinians. (good luck with that). Out of Gaza entirely.

[Kathianne]

I doubt they'll be safe in any case. I'm at work, good guess on myctypo.

It seems Blinken had put up an endorsement of Turkey's idea of cease fire for hostages. He took it down 12 hours later, without comment. What a fuktard.

[Kathianne]

More on the moron named Blinken, buddy of Joe:

https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2023/10/09/bidens-bbq-and-blinkens-blindness-lets-have-a-cease-fire-with-people-raping-kidnaping-and-slaughtering-civilians-or-something-n583262


Biden's BBQ and Blinken's blindness: Let's have a cease-fire with people raping, kidnaping, and slaughtering civilians, or somethingED MORRISSEY 11:21 AM on October 09, 2023

Biden's BBQ and Blinken's blindness: Let's have a cease-fire with people raping, kidnaping, and slaughtering civilians, or something
AP Photo/Susan Walsh
What did our government do this weekend while Israelis and at least nine Americans got murdered with more kidnaped and/or raped by Gazans in their medieval and barbarous invasion? President Joe Biden was on top of it — if “it” refers to the ribs cooking on the grill.


The deadliest days for America’s strategic ally in 50 years and the loss of nine Americans apparently didn’t put a dent in Biden’s appetite:




Scott Taylor, a former Virginia Republican congressman, added: “Given recent events, and certainly with the news of many Americans being held hostage in Gaza, I think I would have canceled the White House BBQ with the live band.”


“This weekend, several Americans were killed in Israel and several more are still being held hostage by Hamas. Today, Joe Biden called a lid at 11:34 a.m. and is having a barbecue,” political commentator and podcast host Benny Johnson posted. The term ‘calling a lid’ is used by political reporters to mean that the president will not be making any more public statements or be available to the press for the rest of the day.


C.J. Pearson, a conservative activist and commentator, added: “There are American hostages being held captive by Hamas and Joe Biden is currently having a barbecue at the White House. The case for impeachment couldn’t be more strong.”


The most stunning part of this isn’t the barbecue, although that’s bad enough. It’s the pre-noon lid on any updates from the White House. Americans got killed by an Islamic terrorist group-cum-government in Gaza, while others got seized as hostages within the last 48 hours. And the White House didn’t even leave open the possibility of briefing reporters on developments for the rest of the day?


Were the ribs really that good? Or was it the band? I’m old enough to remember when the American media reviled George W. Bush for playing a round of golf the day after a bus bombing in Israel while issuing a statement condemning the attack. That was in August 2002, eleven months after the 9/11 attacks, and the bus bombing was no match for the scale of the Hamas invasion over the last few days. The White House didn’t call a lid at noon on that day, either. And yet the media made such a big deal of Bush’s “Now watch this drive” that the then-president gave up golf during the remainder of his presidency.


Do you expect them to do the same with Biden’s “Now watch these ribs” moment?


However, that wasn’t the worst response from the administration this weekend. That came from US Secretary of State Antony Blinken, who huddled with our barely-ally Turkey to spitball on the war Gaza declared on Israel. And Blinken’s bright idea is to grant Hamas and Gaza a reprieve from the military response they provoked with their barbaric war against civilians in Israel:




Turkish Foreign Minister @HakanFidan and I spoke further on Hamas’ terrorist attacks on Israel. I encouraged Türkiye's advocacy for a cease-fire and the release of all hostages held by Hamas immediately.

— Secretary Antony Blinken (@SecBlinken) October 8, 2023


Please note the odd format of the tweet. Blinken or his team deleted this tweet this morning without explanation, after having it up for more than twelve hours. They seem to have belatedly realized just how much cowardice this statement contained, with appeasement dripping from every syllable, almost like barbecue sauce drips off the ribs and chicken at Biden’s Israel Is Burning Staff Appreciation Day.


Fortunately, everything is forever on the Internet, thanks to Ducky:




And also our good pal Mary Katharine:


Perhaps the deletion this morning indicates some level of shame over Blinken’s cowardice. The more likely explanation is that the State Department got so much flak over it in the past 24 hours that they decided to bury it — even though this was an official statement on a government account. Those should not be deleted, however, especially not in the gutless manner in which it disappeared without any explanation. Did Blinken change positions, or does he merely want everyone to stop talking about it?


Perhaps both, and for good reason. We don’t call off police responses to get hostages released, and we don’t call off military responses over hostages either. To do so incentivizes more hostage taking, a rock-solid truth that this administration has spent the last couple of years ignoring, especially in regard to Iran. The majority of the hostages still alive — if any are still alive — are Israelis, but the Israeli government isn’t waiting around for hostage negotiations.


The Israelis know the hostaging game, and know not to play it. Unlike Blinken and Biden, they’ve also read Kipling’s “Dane-geld,” perhaps especially the part about a “rich and lazy nation,” which describes Biden’s national security policies to an unfortunate T.


Gaza has launched a war on Israel. Not Hamas, which is simply their chosen government, but Gaza. Their subjects are dancing in the street over the raping, kidnaping, and slaughter of women, children, and the elderly civilians of nearby Israeli communities. They have long been all-in on Hamas’ vision of a Thousand Year Reich built on the bodies of millions of Jews, and this time they mean to achieve it. The only way to fight this is to fight it as we fought Nazi Germany in 1944-45 — by destroying everything of use to the regime, to defeat it utterly, and to force its supporters into either utter capitulation or destruction — with that being their choice, not the Israelis. There is no way for Israel to peacefully co-exist with a Hamas regime or the populace that supports it.


If this administration can’t figure that out, they need to resign and allow Americans to be led by more serious people in more serious times. I may have more on that later, too.

[Kathianne]

Where I am:

https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2023/10/09/israel-to-cut-power-food-to-gaza-n583263


Israel to cut power, food to GazaJAZZ SHAW 9:21 AM on October 09, 2023

Israel to cut power, food to Gaza
AP Photo/Bilal Hussein
Israel is pulling out all the stops in its response to this weekend’s Hamas terror attacks. The IDF has announced that it is cutting off all power, food, and water to the Gaza strip. The results of this action will be immediate because Gaza relies almost exclusively on Israel for all of its supplies and infrastructure. Travel restrictions will prevent Palestinians from crossing the border into Israel for work. It’s possible that Palestine could seek an agreement with Egypt to replace those resources, but it’s unclear whether or not the Egyptian government would be willing to risk the wrath of the West by aiding the terrorists. This will be seen by pro-Palestinian sympathizers as some sort of cruel and unusual punishment, but Israel should feel no obligation to provide such services to the monsters that have opened a war against them. (Associated Press)



Israel vowed to lay total siege to the Gaza Strip on Monday, as its military scoured the country’s south for militants, guarded breaches in its border fence and pounded the impoverished, Hamas-ruled territory in the wake of an unprecedented weekend incursion…


In an effort to further ratchet up the pressure on Hamas, Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant ordered a “complete siege” of Gaza, saying authorities would cut electricity and prevent food and fuel from entering the territory. He said Israel was at war with “human animals,” using the kind of dehumanizing language often heard on both sides at times of soaring tensions.


Israel and Egypt have imposed various levels of blockade on Gaza since Hamas seized power, but in recent years Israel had provided limited electricity and allowed the import of food, fuel and consumer goods, while heavily restricting travel in and out.


At the same time as the siege began, the Israeli Air Force began pummeling Gaza City and other known Hamas headquarters and facilities. Smoke could be seen rising over the city and fires were breaking out in various places. Reporters near the border repeatedly saw Israeli fighter jets passing over and missiles continue to rain down on the terrorists’ homeland. (NY Post)



The Israeli Air Force has begun striking targets throughout the Gaza Strip following a massive barrage of rockets fired into Israel by Hamas terrorists on Monday.


“The Air Force is now launching an extensive attack on many centers of the terrorist organization Hamas in the Gaza Strip,” the branch wrote on X, formerly Twitter.


“Even at this time, the Air Force continues to attack dozens of targets of the terrorist organizations in the Gaza Strip,” the air force posted minutes later.


We’re already hearing protests from pro-Palestinians in America over the decision to shut off Gaza’s electricity and food supplies. The defenders of Hamas claim that the Palestinians “had no choice” because they are “occupied.” What many people don’t realize is that the people living in the Gaza strip don’t have any resources of their own because Hamas provides them with virtually nothing. Hamas is a terrorist organization and offers few if any governmental services. Israel hasn’t “occupied” the Gaza strip for nearly twenty years, and they voluntarily provide basic necessities to the people of the Gaza strip. If Hamas was doing anything to provide for the people of Gaza, Israel wouldn’t have this sort of leverage over them.



Are there “normal” Palestinians who do not participate in terror attacks? Probably. But as far as Israel is concerned, we are probably reaching the point of adopting the adage of Cistercian abbot Arnaud Amalric who essentially said, ‘kill them all and let God sort them out.’ I’m aware of how harsh that sounds, but Israel is quickly running out of options and its enemies are growing more bold. If the non-terrorist Palestinians truly want peace and security, they have a solution available to them. Rise up and oust or kill all of the leaders of Hamas, cut all of their ties to Iran, and form a new government that is willing to live and work in peace with the Israelis.


Up until now there has only been one “aggressor” in this war and it’s been Hamas. They are the terrorists who seek to wipe Israel off the face of the map. They bear the responsibility for what is happening to them this week. And we now know that at least nine and as many as a dozen Americans were killed during the attacks this weekend. If we had leadership with any sign of a recognizable spine, we wouldn’t simply be “supporting” Israel. We would have Raptors and Super Hornets bombing the crap out of Gaza City ourselves right now and not leaving it up to the Israelis to do the dirty work. If they kill ten of ours, we should take ten thousand of theirs. It’s time for the permanent end of Hamas and a dire warning to all of the sponsors of terror who support them.

[Black Diamond]

Newsweek reported the IDF says US weapons from Afghanistan are seen being used

[Kathianne]

Newsweek reported the IDF says US weapons from Afghanistan are seen being used

Certainly not a surprise. Good old Joe.

[SassyLady]

Personally, the Arab countries should accept and assimilate the Palestinians. (good luck with that). Out of Gaza entirely.

Totally agree!

[Kathianne]

Thse lovely folks are threatening to kill hostages if bombings continue without warnings. Ummm, nope f's, yu bombed without warning. You drove dozens of cars filled with terrorists shooting people dancing, driving, waiting for busses. So f off and duck.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/hamas-armed-wing-warns-start-killing-israeli-hostages-bombing-homes-warning

[revelarts]

I have not been reading or listening in detail to events.

Can someone tell me a few things.

Has Hamas or "Gaza" or anyone specific claimed responsibility for the attacks?
Any Palestinian leader(s) made any statements?
Statements as to the goals or purpose?


If not does anyone have any idea why they would do this? other than being "crazy" and hating Israel that is.
Why kick the lion when you know the lion will eat you?
And the the lion has a RedWhite&Blue Dragon for a friend.

It makes no sense.

[SassyLady]

I have not been reading or listening in detail to events.

Can someone tell me a few things.

Has Hamas or "Gaza" or anyone specific claimed responsibility for the attacks?
Any Palestinian leader(s) made any statements?
Statements as to the goals or purpose?


If not does anyone have any idea why they would do this? other than being "crazy" and hating Israel that is.
Why kick the lion when you know the lion will eat you?
And the the lion has a RedWhite&Blue Dragon for a friend.

It makes no sense.
I'm pretty sure Iran is behind the operation. And using Hamas and Palestinians as their proxy.

Rev ... there's so much Intel out there it would be hard to narrow down to just one reason or source.

Iraq and Turkey have already threatened the US of we try to help Israel.

[Gunny]

I have not been reading or listening in detail to events.

Can someone tell me a few things.

Has Hamas or "Gaza" or anyone specific claimed responsibility for the attacks?
Any Palestinian leader(s) made any statements?
Statements as to the goals or purpose?


If not does anyone have any idea why they would do this? other than being "crazy" and hating Israel that is.
Why kick the lion when you know the lion will eat you?
And the the lion has a RedWhite&Blue Dragon for a friend.

It makes no sense.Hamas has taken credit. They did it as a blindside attack on a holiday. Their purpose was to murder and terrorize. Probably hoping to start a wider war dragging Hezbollah and/or Iran into it.

If you are looking for a logical answer, good luck. Suicide. They now have no water, gas or electric in Gaza. They're pinned in by Israel and Israel has stated it is going to clean Hamas out.

Other countries are talking shit.

[revelarts]

I'm pretty sure Iran is behind the operation. And using Hamas and Palestinians as their proxy.
Rev ... there's so much Intel out there it would be hard to narrow down to just one reason or source.
Iraq and Turkey have already threatened the US of we try to help Israel.

mmm, Ok I hear yeah.. but
I'm in the "Truth Is the First Casualty in War" mindset right now.

Iraq is going to attack the U.S.? really?



Hamas has taken credit. They did it as a blindside attack on a holiday. Their purpose was to murder and terrorize. Probably hoping to start a wider war dragging Hezbollah and/or Iran into it.

If you are looking for a logical answer, good luck. Suicide. They now have no water, gas or electric in Gaza. They're pinned in by Israel and Israel has stated it is going to clean Hamas out.

Other countries are talking shit.

OK thanks, so Hamas has taken credit.
Any Idea which leaders said it? Weird they haven't announced goals or grievances. the HARD left alt media would run with it.
Not so sure about establishment MSM.

Any news reporters with them on camera or
Have they been releasing videos of the leadership talking about 'death to America' 'great satan' and Israel 'little satan' yet?

[Gunny]

mmm, Ok I hear yeah.. but
I'm in the "Truth Is the First Casualty in War" mindset right now.

Iraq is going to attack the U.S.? really?




OK thanks, so Hamas has taken credit.
Any Idea which leaders said it? Weird they haven't announced goals or grievances. the HARD left alt media would run with it.
Not so sure about establishment MSM.

Any news reporters with them on camera or
Have they been releasing videos of the leadership talking about 'death to America' 'great satan' and Israel 'little satan' yet?Videos have been released of them butchering people. They've got over a hundred hostages last I heard.

The goal of the attack was the attack itself. Terror for the sake of terror.

[Kathianne]

mmm, Ok I hear yeah.. but
I'm in the "Truth Is the First Casualty in War" mindset right now.

Iraq is going to attack the U.S.? really?




OK thanks, so Hamas has taken credit.
Any Idea which leaders said it? Weird they haven't announced goals or grievances. the HARD left alt media would run with it.
Not so sure about establishment MSM.

Any news reporters with them on camera or
Have they been releasing videos of the leadership talking about 'death to America' 'great satan' and Israel 'little satan' yet?


Really? REALLY? Hamas Charter calls for the destruction of Israel. Hasn't changed since inception in 1988. Not a secret.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter#:~:text=The%20charter%20states%20tha t%20%22our,obliteration%20or%20dissolution%20of%20 Israel.

https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

[revelarts]

Really? REALLY? Hamas Charter calls for the destruction of Israel. Hasn't changed since inception in 1988. Not a secret.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter#:~:text=The%20charter%20states%20tha t%20%22our,obliteration%20or%20dissolution%20of%20 Israel.

https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

yes, since 1988.. but attacks quite like this?

[Kathianne]

yes, since 1988.. but attacks quite like this?

C'mon man! War in 1978, Hamas statement-before Hamas had control, 1988. Hamas granted control in 2005. Recommitted in 2017. Iran funds this very successful effort.

Drive the Palestinians, who established the government of Hamas into fellow Arab countries. No mercy.

[Gunny]

yes, since 1988.. but attacks quite like this?Hamas is a terrorist organization. This is a terrorist attack. Where the surprise? No to mention they're all over the internet having been recorded or recorded themselves.

[Kathianne]

I can't believe how angry I am. Certainly at Hamas, but mostly at Biden and Obama. I don't usually post pics from sites, but this time...:


https://hotair.com/tree-hugging-sister/2023/10/09/they-have-a-right-to-do-what-they-need-to-do-n583290


They have a right to do what they need to do
BEEGE WELBORN (https://hotair.com/author/tree-hugging-sister) 2:31 PM on October 09, 2023


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https://media.townhall.com/townhall/reu/o/2023/282/2fada44c-aeaa-4337-8c99-891c8cf1e573-860x475.jpgAP Photo/Tsafrir Abayov
As opposed to the vegetable in chief, whom his staff didn’t even wake up to tell him something awful was going down in Israel he might want to know about.

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Especially considering POTATUS and that same staff financed most of it (https://thefederalist.com/2023/10/09/if-democrats-dont-want-blame-for-appeasing-iran-and-hamas-they-should-stop-doing-it/).

…Right now, though, many on the left seem upset that conservatives are pointing out that the last two Democratic administrations have appeased and funded the terror states responsible for the attack that has killed hundreds, if not thousands, of Israelis and at least four nine Americans.
There is, most obviously, Joe Biden’s recent $6 billion gift to the mullahs.
“Not a single cent from these funds has been spent, and when it is spent, it can only be spent on things like food and medicine for the Iranian people,” a White House National Security Council spokeswoman said. This pathetic and pedantic deflection was repeated endlessly by the president’s defenders. Even a child understands the concept of fungibility. It is true that Hamas didn’t spend that exact funding on their terror proxies. Islamic fascists, like everyone else, make fiscal plans with an eye on future earnings and spending. And the hostage-taking business happens to be booming.
And no, the $6 billion was not “their money” — no more than the roughly $25 billion that the Biden administration let Iran walk away with by ignoring sanctions or the $10 billion it gave Iran via a waiver to Iraq was their money. Sanctions separated the terror state from its money. That’s the entire point.
…Incidentally, do you know where Hamas leadership was hanging out when their squads began kidnapping young children, shooting the elderly, and raping and massacring women? In a hotel room in Qatar, where they were guests of the regime. Do you know who lifted Qatar to be a strategic partner of the United States last year? Clue: It was the same administration that rejoined the antisemitic UN Human Rights Council, which will be chaired by Ali Bahreini, ambassador of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

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Safe in a hotel room in Qatar.



…Let’s also remember that in 2021, one of Biden’s first foreign policy moves was to overturn Trump-era policy and release hundreds of millions of dollars of funding to both Fatah and Hamas. That wasn’t all. In 2022, Biden sent an additional $316 million to the Palestinians. “Moderate” Fatah, which offers stipends to the families of Jew killers, was recently in talks to form a unity government with Hamas. These are the people Israelis are expected to hand a state.
At the time of the first payment, Secretary of State Antony Blinken regurgitated mind-numbing Brookings Institute platitudes about the money offering “critical relief” and fostering “economic development, and supports Israeli-Palestinian understanding, security coordination and stability.”
How about them apples. No wonder Blinken and his juvenile dupes at State were so quick to call for Israel to chill out even as the Hamas horror attacks continued, Israeli blood still flowed afresh and screaming women and children were carted into the terrorist abyss like so many captives in a grainy old movie.
I mean, Blinken HIMSELF basically says, “Yeah, well. One can never be SURE…”


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The first “cool your jets, Israel” shot was from Blinken’s guys on the ground in country as events were unfolding, and quickly deleted.
https://hotair.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/IsraelState1-730x485.jpg
The second was last night from the SecState himself, as POTATUS held a BBQ (https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2023/10/09/bidens-bbq-and-blinkens-blindness-lets-have-a-cease-fire-with-people-raping-kidnaping-and-slaughtering-civilians-or-something-n583262), the Israeli body count skyrocketed, and Hamas rockets poured into Israeli cities. ISRAEL, according to Blinken, needed to chill TF out.
https://hotair.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/IsraelBlinkena-730x624.jpg
And just as quickly deleted.
You can see where this is going. You know where it SHOULD go – the utter and complete annihilation of every last Stone Age Hamas operative in Gaza, even if they have to take the place down to the sand it’s built on. Israel has had to deal with this long enough, and been constantly restrained by both the international community’s internal squeamishness and duplicity about dealing with the terrorists who perpetrate these atrocities, and what it actually takes to pound them out of existence.
I just watched an interview with Ron DeSantis. He was unequivocable in stating precisely what Israel needs to do, that they have every right to do it, and laid out how they have restrained themselves – and been restrained – time and again in the past. DeSantis also points out exactly what we see happening already – the moral equivalencies that will be used to undercut the Israelis’ right to defend themselves.


Excerpt:

Greta: …When the United States says it ‘supports Israel,’ what exactly does that mean? How do we support them besides saying we think that’s it’s horrible what happened?
RDS: Well, the first thing is to be very clear that not only do they have a right to defend themselves, but they have a right to use overwhelming force. Part of the reason we’re in this situation is because, in past iterations of these attacks which, admittedly, we’re not at this level, Israel would respond, but then there would immediately be a lot of pressure for Israel to stand down. Israel would even start getting blamed. And so they never really uprooted the terror networks of Hamas and even Hezbollah like they probably should’ve. So this is a time where this is their 9/11 – probably times four or five from what we’re seeing with the horrific images and the casualty count for such a small country. It’s an unbelievable terrorist attack that I think they need to uproot all those terrorist networks.
Now there’s gonna start to be moral equivalence put out there. There’s gonna start to be condemnations from the United Nations. I’m not saying it’s going to happen tomorrow, but I can definitely see in the not-too-distant future that. So we just need to be united as Americans that they have a right to do what they need to do…

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There’s 9 minutes, but you get the drift. My governor’s on the money, but he gave some people too much credit for a tiny shred of feral intelligence.
The UN’s made their move already – Hamas rockets still in the air as they screech at Israel.


I saw it all begin progressing on X yesterday and it is so revoltingly predictable. After two days of carnage and horror at the hands of Palestinian barbarians, the Israelis dropped a bomb into a mosque dome.
Did you know the Hamas terrorists who’ve left almost – so far – a bloody swath of over 1000 corpses with thousands more wounded across Israel were instructed to be polite around synagogues and churches?
LOOK WHAT ISRAEL DID! HAVE THEY NO DECENCY?!


Because mosques are so holy to Hamas – they mustn’t be be defiled by secular things.


The same Israelis who also drop a small munition on the top floor of a targeted building in a notice to occupants that it is going to be destroyed shortly, so GET OUT NOW. The terrorists swarming Israel on a Jewish holiday weren’t quite as polite as their publicity arm would have you believe.

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“Enough bloodshed already! STOP, ISRAEL!”
The moral equivalency brigade DeSantis talks about has already been working overtime.


We know who the REAL victims are, don’t we? We’ve seen the movie enough times.


“Poor Gazans. No Iron Dome. Why for mean Israelis whomp on them?” cry Squad members.


I’ll give you the “morality” you will NEVER understand, you vile creature.


No more gaslighting this time.
NO. MORE.
Has anyone considered how many Hamas/Hezbollah/Iranian-backed sleeper cells have wandered across our wide-open border thanks to Blinken and President Nod-Off? And that’s by design?

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Biden and his malevolent clowns have undercut our right to defend ourselves even at our very border, less mind across the globe. Left us weakened and flailing in the face of the unspeakable evil rising in the world, and still look to rein in and destroy the few friends we have left willing to boldly fight their own battles against it.
The Israelis are at war and one they did not start.
They have every right to turn loose on the barbarians and annihilate them with extreme prejudice.


God protect us all from the barbarian sympathizers running this country.



I just can't:

https://hotair.com/john-s-2/2023/10/09/survivors-of-the-music-festival-massacre-tell-their-stories-n583461

I'm not doing the pics on this one, just too graphic and I've already seen some.


Survivors of the music festival massacre tell their stories (Update)JOHN SEXTON 4:00 PM on October 09, 2023

Survivors of the music festival massacre tell their stories (Update)
On the day of the Hamas attack, there was a music festival happening in the desert not far from the Gaza security fence. Hundreds of young people had been up dancing all night and were just settling down around 6am when they heard rockets passing overhead. Hamas militants arrived and began shooting people. As much as a third of the Israeli death toll (reports say 260 bodies were found) as well as many hostages taken by Hamas are connected to this festival. Today we’re getting some of the stories from people who survived.


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Let’s start with this dashcam video showing some of the Hamas terrorists shooting at people and then looting their cars.




Here’s how CNN describes it:


The video has no audio, but a militant is seen yelling, then pointing his machine gun at a man taking cover next to the car. It’s unclear if the gunman is firing a warning shot, or if he’s just shot and injured the civilian, who is then seen being led away. His fate is unknown.


A second individual is seen in the video lying on the ground at the back of another car. The person begins to move and suddenly another militant appears on screen, aims at the person, fires and walks away. The person on the ground stops moving.


Another video from the dashcam, timestamped at 12:09 p.m., shows two militants approach the body of the second individual. They rifle through the person’s pockets, and one picks something off the body and puts it into his own back pocket.


Less than three minutes later, militants grab a woman out of the back of the car. She is led away, and the militants begin to open another car’s trunk and empty a suitcase on the ground to be pilfered.


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Here’s another video showing people at the festival who suddenly realize they are under attack. They run for their lives and are protected by several police officers but people are being shot.




There’s also an interview with a man who survived the attack but witnessed dozens of people being murdered all around him. I don’t have a full translation but the French tweet reads:


The moving testimony of Sahar, one of the survivors of the music festival massacre.


– We fled under bullets
– We found refuge in a small concrete shelter
– The terrorists threw a grenade inside which exploded into pieces, there was blood everywhere
– A terrorist entered and opened fire at point blank range, everyone around me died before my eyes


Let the world watch and listen to this testimony.
Let the world open its eyes and understand who we are fighting against.




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Another story from someone who made it to their car and pulled in other people who were fleeing:


As the carnage unfolded before her, eyewitness Alper pulled a few disoriented-looking revellers into her car from the street and drove in the opposite direction.


One of them said he had lost his wife in the chaos and Alper had to stop him from breaking out of the car to find her. Another said she had just seen Hamas gunmen shoot and kill her best friend. Another rocked in his seat, murmuring over and over “We are going to die.”…


When a man just metres away shouted “God is great!”, Alper and her new companions sprung out of the car and sprinted through open fields toward a mass of bushes.


Alper felt a bullet whiz past her left ear. Aware the gunmen would outrun her, she plunged into a tangle of shrubs. Peering through thorns, she said she saw one of her passengers, the girl who had lost her friend, shriek and collapse as a gunman stood over her limp body, grinning.


“I can’t even explain the energy they (the militants) had, it was so clear they didn’t see us as human beings,” she said. “They looked at us with pure, pure hate.”


She and the others hid for six hours before help arrived. Finally, AG Hamilton share this account from a woman who was at the festival named May Hayat. When the attack began she ran to a police station where people were hiding but their safety their didn’t last long.


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The noise of the gunshots began to get closer, the policemen stood in the doorway ready with their weapons and looked at each other with a frightened look and shouted to “storm!”.


They turned to us just before leaving the room and told us to “run and pray.” They came out and got shot one after the other. The terrorists fired bursts of gunfire at the room and for a moment there was shocking silence. We left the room running to the battlefield, and while I’m running I turned back and I saw Liron. She stayed there and didn’t come with us.


They got into someone’s car but as soon as the car started to move, Hamas started firing at it. They were herded in a big circle until a wheel got stuck in the sand and they all ran. May and one man found a place to hide and tried to play dead but the terrorists found them.


They found us. 8 terrorists in front of both of us. I closed my eyes tightly because I was sure they gonna shot us but then they grabbed us and lofted us from the ground. They took our phones and everything we had in our pockets. They announced in their walkie-talkie, ‘We have 2 more abductees.”


One of the terrorists started talking to me in Arabic and I told him I can’t understand him. I didn’t shout, I didn’t went crazy, I became apathetic. He put his jacket on me while the rest of them was looking at me like I was a piece of meat because I was wearing a tank top. In one hand he holds my hand, and in the other hand he holds a missile…


The guy who was with me didn’t stop crying and begging for his life. I tried to explain to him that he needs to stop crying, “It annoys them, stop crying and everything will be fine.” They had knives and hammers. I realized we were in danger.


At first he listened to me but very quickly he returned to his initial and fell on his knees and again screamed and begged for his life. And then – he didn’t scream anymore. They murdered him in front of my eyes. I was left alone with them.


One of them took a board and every few seconds hit me on the head. The other one was holding a knife and every few seconds approached me threateningly. It was important for them to humiliate me.


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One of the men threatened to kill her but another one told her to run. She doesn’t know why but she ran and hid among several dead bodies for three hours while other terrorists were passing by speaking Arabic. Eventually she heard someone speaking Hebrew and screamed for help. She later found out that her friend Liron, who had stayed behind in the police station, had been murdered.




Update: From Tablet.


I’ve spent the last 12 hours speaking to Israelis who were at the Supernova music festival. Their testimonies, as you would imagine, are very emotional. At least one broke down mid-conversation and wasn’t able to continue his recollection…


“I saw videos with a male getting held by a group of Arab kids. Like, they’re like 16, 17,” one survivor recalled. “They’re kids, but they’re young men already, and they’re holding this guy, and he looks as his girlfriend is being mounted on a bike and driven away from him. God knows what she’s going to experience … Women have been raped at the area of the rave next to their friends bodies, dead bodies.”…


One survivor who’d returned to the scene later in the day to look for his friends spoke, in a breaking voice, of what he’d seen. Of the bodies, mainly of young women, lying cold and mutilated.


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Update: One of the festival organizers, a woman named Noa Beer, barely escaped.


As people began to move to the exits, Beer and her friend went to their car, which was close by in the VIP parking area. She said their decision to leave quickly may have saved their lives…


“There were only two cars ahead of me and they crashed into each other,” she said. “I saw a motorcycle in the road and someone was lying on the ground.”


She thought it may have been an accident until she saw that the motorcyclist had been shot…


She saw people crawling on the ground toward her, and she got three of them in the back seat of the car and tried to pull away. She revved the car as she worked to release the parking brake with bullets flying around her…


She described two men shooting at her car for six straight seconds.


“They looked me in the eyes. They saw terror, and they gave zero s—s about it,’ she said.


Two of the people she picked up were shot but survived. She was able to drive them directly to the hospital.

[revelarts]

Still in
'Truth Is the First Casualty in War' mode.
multiple sources

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1710973255983456256/pu/vid/avc1/848x480/5tj6LscN4hi3Z_uD.mp4?tag=12

[SassyLady]

I have not been reading or listening in detail to events.

Can someone tell me a few things.

Has Hamas or "Gaza" or anyone specific claimed responsibility for the attacks?
Any Palestinian leader(s) made any statements?
Statements as to the goals or purpose?


If not does anyone have any idea why they would do this? other than being "crazy" and hating Israel that is.
Why kick the lion when you know the lion will eat you?
And the the lion has a RedWhite&Blue Dragon for a friend.

It makes no sense.

revelarts

Who do you think did it? And what do you think their reason is? I'm genuinely interested.

Perhaps the IDF or "allies" of Hamas took out the Hamas leadership before they could claim responsibility. So many players in this scenario right now. And they have pretty sophisticated Intel to have for them to get past Israeli Intel

[revelarts]

@revelarts (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=1760)

Who do you think did it? And what do you think their reason is? I'm genuinely interested.

Perhaps the IDF or "allies" of Hamas took out the Hamas leadership before they could claim responsibility. So many players in this scenario right now. And they have pretty sophisticated Intel to have for them to get past Israeli Intel

I've got no clue,
I guess Iran could have have helped, but why? whats to gain? they are already under sanctions. and this only raise more suspicion their way.
I guess Iraq could but it's mainly been a puppet state of the U.S. with some Iranian influences. But as far as I know the intel and military are mainly U.S. controlled.

For the Hamas gov't to do this would take some serious planning since the Israeli's DO NOT play with their security.
But I can understand the level of frustration built up over the years.
Gaza is kind of an open air prison. 2 ways in & out. lots of poverty. when people are desperate they can do stupid (evil) crap.
Terrorism for terrorism sake makes sense as a "reason".

But One of my 1st questions is the old "Who Benefits"?

False flags aren't fantasies. Killing a few innocents for a larger goal is not unheard of.
But hey some folks won't allow themselves to even consider that. cause we're the good guys. always .. except for a few "mistakes".

But in my mind ALL options are on the table.
I simply DO NOT know who did what.


I remember a whole list of things the Russians supposedly did like blowing up their own pipeline. and Ukrainian heroes and fire fights that weren't real.
And that's just for the Ukrainian war.
"Assad Bombs his own people with GAS!"... oops well actually ...No he didn't. but he's a BAD guy "he must Go" .

Like I said I don't know who's doing what to whom.
I just pray for everyone's sake it ends soon.

[SassyLady]

I've got no clue,
I guess Iran could have have helped, but why? whats to gain? they are already under sanctions. and this only raise more suspicion their way.
I guess Iraq could but it's mainly been a puppet state of the U.S. with some Iranian influences. But as far as I know the intel and military are mainly U.S. controlled.

For the Hamas gov't to do this would take some serious planning since the Israeli's DO NOT play with their security.
But I can understand the level of frustration built up over the years.
Gaza is kind of an open air prison. 2 ways in & out. lots of poverty. when people are desperate they can do stupid (evil) crap.
Terrorism for terrorism sake makes sense as a "reason".

But One of my 1st questions is the old "Who Benefits"?

False flags aren't fantasies. Killing a few innocents for a larger goal is not unheard of.
But hey some folks won't allow themselves to even consider that. cause we're the good guys. always .. except for a few "mistakes".

But in my mind ALL options are on the table.
I simply DO NOT know who did what.


I remember a whole list of things the Russians supposedly did like blowing up their own pipeline. and Ukrainian heroes and fire fights that weren't real.
And that's just for the Ukrainian war.
"Assad Bombs his own people with GAS!"... oops well actually ...No he didn't. but he's a BAD guy "he must Go" .

Like I said I don't know who's doing what to whom.
I just pray for everyone's sake it ends soon.

revelarts

Sent you a PM

[fj1200]

The Who? question is a bit naive. The Why? question is less so because there is no obvious outcome where Hamas "wins." Some talking head "expert" from Emory on local radio this morning mentioned the increasing acceptance of Israel in the wider middle east specifically Saudi Arabia possibly recognizing them as a state. The other thought I had was the Palestinian citizenry growing frustrated with Hamas being in charge and they needed them to rally around a common enemy being the IDF. I have other cynical thoughts but I dare not speak them.

[revelarts]

The Who? question is a bit naive. The Why? question is less so because there is no obvious outcome where Hamas "wins." Some talking head "expert" from Emory on local radio this morning mentioned the increasing acceptance of Israel in the wider middle east specifically Saudi Arabia possibly recognizing them as a state. The other thought I had was the Palestinian citizenry growing frustrated with Hamas being in charge and they needed them to rally around a common enemy being the IDF. I have other cynical thoughts but I dare not speak them.

"Who" is a "naive" question FJ?:rolleyes:
In any murder case, (war is fundamentally mass murder &/or mass killing for defense) the 1st question is who.
Some cops & the MSM often jump to quick ...wrong... conclusions.
If the how is clear, the next question is why.
The moral question can turn on the 'why', the motive(s).


Why are you trying to downplay the basics?
You can't get to why unless you know who.

But maybe you're so sure you can't imagine anything other than what you've been told by "the experts" & media.
BTW, did covid come from bat soup?

[fj1200]

"Who" is a "naive" question FJ?:rolleyes:
In any murder case, (war is fundamentally mass murder &/or mass killing for defense) the 1st question is who.

Fair point. I'm in for your evidence/thoughts on the who. Do you think it not Hamas?

Besides I mentioned one expert who I implied had all the certainty one could expect from an expert by identifying them as an "expert." I also posited one thing I can imagine and one, or more, unspoken options so where is it that I "can't imagine?" Please let me know with all your wisdom more what I think. :rolleyes:

[revelarts]

Fair point. I'm in for your evidence/thoughts on the who. Do you think it not Hamas?

Besides I mentioned one expert who I implied had all the certainty one could expect from an expert by identifying them as an "expert." I also posited one thing I can imagine and one, or more, unspoken options so where is it that I "can't imagine?" Please let me know with all your wisdom more what I think. :rolleyes:

I've already said I don't know for sure.
I haven't looked at enough info to make an absolutely definitive determination.

maybe you have.

[fj1200]

I've already said I don't know for sure.
I haven't looked at enough info to make an absolutely definitive determination.

maybe you have.

Let your imagination run wild.

[NightTrain]

From Twitter :


The IDF reported that at least 1,500 dead terrorists have been recovered from Israeli territory and the Gaza border is secure. Last night, there were no recorded incursions from Gaza into Israel. The IDF today issued a warning to all foreign journalists still in Gaza to leave via the border with Egypt which is still open.Image of some of the "lucky" terrorists who were taken into custody. I have noticed that several of them show signs of road-rash from falling or getting blown off of motorcycles.

14520


Pave the strip, Israel. Pave the whole God damn thing.

[SassyLady]

Why are they still alive?

[Gunny]

Why are they still alive?Information.

Prisoner swap.

[Kathianne]

Why are they still alive?
You mean, why were they still in Israel in the first place? I was reading last night that even yesterday, there were Palestinians attempting to enter through the breaches in barrier that heavy equipment had made for initial incursions. It seems that there is an attempt still underway at least yesterday, to 'populate' Israel proper with Palestinians.

What is beyond any of my understanding is that prior to 78 war, Palestinians were integrated with limitations into Israel, including property ownership. The war of course changed that. Then pushed to Gaza. Then Charter. Then Hamas elections and removal of Israel control. THEY GOT WHAT THEY WANTED EVERY STEP OF THE WAY-WITH EXCEPTION OF TOTAL ISRAEL DESTRUCTION.

So now end Gaza occupation of Hamas and Palestinians.

[Kathianne]

You mean, why were they still in Israel in the first place? I was reading last night that even yesterday, there were Palestinians attempting to enter through the breaches in barrier that heavy equipment had made for initial incursions. It seems that there is an attempt still underway at least yesterday, to 'populate' Israel proper with Palestinians.

What is beyond any of my understanding is that prior to 78 war, Palestinians were integrated with limitations into Israel, including property ownership. The war of course changed that. Then pushed to Gaza. Then Charter. Then Hamas elections and removal of Israel control. THEY GOT WHAT THEY WANTED EVERY STEP OF THE WAY-WITH EXCEPTION OF TOTAL ISRAEL DESTRUCTION.

So now end Gaza occupation of Hamas and Palestinians.

Most definitely related, especially the second clause, Conquer and Hold:

https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2023/10/11/breaking-israel-forms-emergency-unity-govt-idf-says-hamas-planned-to-conquer-and-hold-southern-israel-n583957


BREAKING: Israel forms emergency unity gov't; IDF says Hamas planned to conquer and hold southern IsraelED MORRISSEY 10:41 AM on October 11, 2023

BREAKING: Israel forms emergency unity gov't; IDF says Hamas planned to conquer and hold southern Israel
AP Photo/Sebastian Scheiner, Pool


Quite a dramatic show of unity from Israel, where political differences abound and coalitions routinely fracture over esoteric policies. After the invasion from Gaza, Benjamin Netanyahu declared war for the first time in decades — and now has shared power with his opposition to form a unity government. CNN covers the move as it broke, as did the Jerusalem Post:


An emergency government was formed on Wednesday afternoon after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and National Unity leader Benny Gantz met at the IDF headquarters in Tel Aviv earlier in the morning.


The meeting lasted half an hour after which lawyers representing the Likud and National Unity stayed behind to finalize the details.


As part of the deal, Gantz and fellow party member Gadi Eisenkot will be sworn in as ministers and will join a war cabinet with Netanyahu and Defense Minister Yoav Gallant. …


Gantz was immediately joined by opposition leader Yair Lapid and Yisrael Beyteny leader Avigdor Liberman in saying that they would be willing to join an emergency government. Coalition members also expressed support for the move.


CNN reports that this is supposed to bring in more “experience” to Israel’s war cabinet, but it seems doubtful that any of these officials would have withheld the benefit of their counsel under the circumstances. This looks aimed more at bolstering confidence in the war effort and to reduce any divisions among Israelis at a time when their security faces its biggest test in decades. When you mobilize 360,000 troops in a country Israel’s size, you have to make sure that the nation has as much confidence as possible to lead those armed forces.


Almost as importantly, this also sends a signal to Israel’s enemies that Hamas has accomplished the kind of unity and terrible resolve that Israel has not been able to muster for a very long time — perhaps since the Yom Kippur War. That message will be heard loudly and clearly by Hezbollah in the north, which is also mobilizing but pointedly is not yet testing the Israelis in any significant way. Secondarily at best, this also allows Israel’s allies to feel more comfortable with its leadership in this war. It’s no secret that Netanyahu isn’t the most popular figure in Israel with the US especially, although that didn’t stop Biden from offering full-throated support yesterday afternoon (belatedly, after nearly four days).


Let no one doubt that Israel really means to conduct and win a war. Netanyahu and Gantz would never collaborate on anything else. Working together, as long as they do work together, they can end Hamas as an entity on their soil and force Gaza to either submit or get crushed.


And let no one doubt that the Gazans under Hamas committed to war, either. The IDF now says that the Hamas terrorists intended to conquer and hold territory in southern Israel, only to get surprised by how quickly Israeli forces recovered from their surprise and disarray:


The IDF on Wednesday announced that intelligence collected from the battle with Hamas on the Gaza corridor proves that the terror group’s plan was to conquer the area and hold it for an indefinite period.


Equipment, logistical items, and other data show that the terrorists expected to stay in the area and came prepared for such an operation, before facing a faster and more powerful counter-attack than what they had foreseen.


If Hamas succeeded in surprising the IDF and Israel completely at stage one of the invasion, clearly the IDF’s second round response, as opposed to a longer period of shock, waiting, and negotiation over hostages, took Hamas by surprise.


The IDF has found Hamas terrorists as far north as the outskirts of Ashkelon. Over 1500 Hamas terrorists got killed, a far greater number than would be normally deployed in small raids. Apparently they hoped to seize ground, stall Israel over hostage negotiations long enough to end the containment of Gaza, and then flood the area in a campaign of conquest.


Even without that knowledge, of course, their butchery more than justifies the declaration of war on Gaza. And the formation of the unity government and war cabinet spells out just how badly the Gazans may have miscalculated.

[Gunny]

Most definitely related, especially the second clause, Conquer and Hold:

https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2023/10/11/breaking-israel-forms-emergency-unity-govt-idf-says-hamas-planned-to-conquer-and-hold-southern-israel-n583957

House Republican't's should be taking notes:rolleyes:

[SassyLady]

You mean, why were they still in Israel in the first place? I was reading last night that even yesterday, there were Palestinians attempting to enter through the breaches in barrier that heavy equipment had made for initial incursions. It seems that there is an attempt still underway at least yesterday, to 'populate' Israel proper with Palestinians.

What is beyond any of my understanding is that prior to 78 war, Palestinians were integrated with limitations into Israel, including property ownership. The war of course changed that. Then pushed to Gaza. Then Charter. Then Hamas elections and removal of Israel control. THEY GOT WHAT THEY WANTED EVERY STEP OF THE WAY-WITH EXCEPTION OF TOTAL ISRAEL DESTRUCTION.

So now end Gaza occupation of Hamas and Palestinians.

What I was wondering was how the IDF controlled themselves enough to capture them alive.
Gunny

Your explanation is probably truth but do you really think Hamas cares enough for them to do a prisoner swap.

[Kathianne]

What I was wondering was how the IDF controlled themselves enough to capture them alive.
Gunny

Your explanation is probably truth but do you really think Hamas cares enough for them to do a prisoner swap.

Look what Iranians got for 5 hostages! That's what happens once you pay.

Israel has done prisoners exchanges before. They have thousands of prisoners. Hamas has about 100 hostages.

[SassyLady]

Look what Iranians got for 5 hostages! That's what happens once you pay.

Israel has done prisoners exchanges before. They have thousands of prisoners. Hamas has about 100 hostages.

What I'm saying is Hamas probably won't trade Israeli or American hostages for their own people. Just money. No reason for IDF to capture Hamas soldiers.

[Kathianne]

What I'm saying is Hamas probably won't trade Israeli or American hostages for their own people. Just money. No reason for IDF to capture Hamas soldiers.

They want the prisoners. They are terrorists/freedom fighters. The Israelis wouldn't be wrong just getting rid of them.

[Kathianne]

They want the prisoners. They are terrorists/freedom fighters. The Israelis wouldn't be wrong just getting rid of them.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/7/hamas-says-it-has-enough-israeli-captives-to-free-all-palestinian-prisoners


Hamas says it has enough Israeli captives to free all Palestinian prisonersSpeaking to Al Jazeera, Hamas deputy chief Saleh al-Arouri says group expects fighting with Israel to continue after major operation.


Palestinians ride on an Israeli military vehicle seized by Palestinian gunmen who infiltrated areas of southern Israel, in the southern Gaza Strip.
Palestinians ride on an Israeli military vehicle seized by Palestinian gunmen who infiltrated areas of southern Israel, in the southern Gaza Strip, October 7, 2023 [Bassam Masoud/Reuters]
By Al Jazeera Staff
Published On 7 Oct 2023
7 Oct 2023
A senior Hamas leader has said that the group had captured enough Israeli soldiers during an unprecedented attack against Israel to make Israeli authorities free all Palestinian prisoners in its jails.


“We managed to kill and capture many Israeli soldiers. The fighting is still on,” Saleh al-Arouri, deputy chief of Hamas’s political bureau, told Al Jazeera on Saturday.


“Our detainees in [Israeli] prisons, their freedom is looming large. What we have in our hands will release all our prisoners. The longer fighting continues, the higher the number of prisoners will become,” added al-Arouri, who said senior officers were among those captured, but did not provide any figures.


According to the latest figures by Addameer, a prisoners’ rights NGO, nearly 5,200 Palestinians are in Israeli jails, including 33 women, 170 minors and more than 1,200 placed under administrative detention.


The Israeli army has acknowledged soldiers and commanders have been killed and prisoners of war have been taken. It has not given any figures.


Hamas, the group running the besieged Gaza Strip, launched the biggest operation on Israel in years on Saturday, killing dozens of people and wounding hundreds after fighters crossed into Israel under the cover of a barrage of rockets fired from Gaza. Meanwhile, Hamas social media accounts posted footage of what were said to be Israeli captives moved alive into the Gaza Strip.


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Hamas fighters enter Israel in huge operation
The surprise operation from Gaza came on the heels of the killing of four Palestinians in the occupied West Bank, widespread Israeli settler attacks, especially in Huwara, near Nablus and increased tensions at the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound in occupied East Jerusalem.


The Israeli military launched air raids on the Gaza Strip, killing at least 198 Palestinians and wounding hundreds of others, according to the enclave’s ministry of health.


Speaking to Al Jazeera, al-Arouri said the group is engaged in a battle for freedom.


“This is not a [hit-and-run] operation; we started an all-out battle. We expect fighting to continue and the fighting front to expand. We have one prime target: our freedom and the freedom of our holy sites,” he told Al Jazeera.


Al-Arouri said Palestinians have a right to freedom, to fight the Israeli occupation and to safeguard their holy sites.


“We will continue to fight until we are rewarded with victory, freedom and independence,” he said.


As observers noted that a land invasion by Israel could be imminent, Hamas said it is ready for “the worst-case scenario”.


“All scenarios are now possible and we are ready for an [Israeli] land invasion,” he added.


Al-Arouri also said that Israel had been planning to launch an attack on the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.


Earlier, Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said his country is “at war”, while Palestinian officials say ending the Israeli occupation of their territory is the only guarantee for “security, stability and peace” in the region.


The US, meanwhile, said it will work to ensure Israel “has what it needs to defend itself” and the UK, EU and Ukraine have condemned Hamas’s operation in Israel.