Gaetz Filed His Motion [Archive] - Debate Policy

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Kathianne

10-02-2023, 10:34 PM

Hopefully the Ethics Committee will soon address what they've found, they are not giving a stamp of approval for what DOJ found:

https://newrepublic.com/post/175896/house-republicans-oust-matt-gaetz-jerk

House Republicans Finally Realize That Matt Gaetz Is a Raging JerkRepublican lawmakers are so fed up with Matt Gaetz they’re looking to expel him.

ANNA ROSE LAYDEN/GETTY IMAGES
Representative Matt Gaetz

House Republicans are planning a motion to expel Matt Gaetz from the chamber, even as he continues to threaten to expel Kevin McCarthy from the speakership.

The House GOP will move to expel Gaetz if the Ethics Committee finds him guilty, Fox News reported Sunday. Earlier this year, committee investigators reopened a probe into the Florida Republican for allegations of sexual misconduct, illegal drug use, and other wrongdoings.

Gaetz’s repeated threats to move to vacate McCarthy are apparently the straw that broke the camel’s back. “No one can stand him at this point,” a House Republican, speaking anonymously, told Fox. “A smart guy without morals.”

Over the past few weeks, Gaetz repeatedly threatened to vacate McCarthy as House speaker unless the federal budget was slashed dramatically. Now that a continuing resolution has been passed to keep the government open, Gaetz has once again renewed this threat (although it remains to be seen if he’ll follow through or just keep holding it over McCarthy’s head).

McCarthy told CNN on Sunday that he thought Gaetz’s animosity toward him was personal. “I’ll survive. You know, this is personal with Matt,” McCarthy said “He’s more interested in securing TV interviews than doing something.”

“So be it, bring it on. Let’s get over with it, and let’s start governing.”

McCarthy also told Fox on Monday that he thought Gaetz’s anger had ramped up because McCarthy refused to step in and block the Ethics Committee investigation.

The feud between Gaetz and McCarthy has grown incredibly heated in recent weeks. In mid-September, McCarthy snapped at Gaetz during a closed-door party meeting, and told him to put up or shut up.

“If you think you scare me because you want to file a motion to vacate, move the fucking motion,” McCarthy reportedly said.

The two lawmakers reportedly got into another fight in a party meeting just last week.

Gunny

10-03-2023, 06:55 AM

Gunny

10-03-2023, 07:51 AM

Fresh off averting a government shutdown, Congress is heading into October and November with uncertainty looming about funding for Ukraine, the state of the appropriations process — and Speaker Kevin McCarthy’s (R-Calif.) political future.
After McCarthy successfully passed a bipartisan stopgap spending bill in the House Saturday that cleared the Senate just hours later, far-right House conservatives are planning an effort to oust him from his post. Leading the charge is Florida Rep. Matt Gaetz (R), a House Freedom Caucus member and longtime McCarthy antagonist, who on Monday moved to force a vote to remove the Speaker.
A vote on the motion to vacate the chair will have to be brought up within two legislative days. But it is likely that the House, rather than voting on the resolution itself, would first vote on some mechanism to kill or delay it, such as voting to table the resolution. McCarthy, for his part, is exuding confidence amid the effort to oust him. The Speaker told reporters Monday morning that his support within the House GOP conference is “very strong,” and he said Sunday “I’ll survive” if a vote is brought against him (The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4233982-gaetz-moves-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy/)).

At least four House Republicans said they will support or are leaning in favor of the “motion to vacate.” In the slim House majority, just a handful of Republican lawmakers could be enough to push the Speaker out — largely depending on how Democrats vote (The Hill (https://thehill.com/?p=4235032)). They’re now presented with a tricky question (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/02/us/politics/democrats-mccarthy-speaker.html): Should they help rescue the Speaker, who has worked against their agenda and recently opened an impeachment inquiry into President Biden?
▪ The Washington Post analysis (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/10/02/gaetz-mccarthy-speaker-motion/): Gaetz is accusing McCarthy of a horrible act: Compromise.
▪ Politico (https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2023/10/02/congress/watching-mccarthys-fate-00119543): Congress has never before successfully ousted a Speaker — and the path to get there isn’t simple.

THE BATTLE OVER UKRAINE FUNDING is escalating in the House as the chamber races to pass funding bills. The money wasn’t included in the short-term spending patch that averted a shutdown over the weekend, but some House Republicans are already warning about the looming battle. 
“There are a lot of us that care deeply about this, and it’s a hill we’re willing to die on,” Rep. Brian Fitzpatrick (R-Pa.) told The Hill (https://thehill.com/?p=4234544) on Saturday, shortly after the House passed legislation to keep the government funded through mid-November. “It’s an existential threat to global security. We believe that. And we’re going to take up that fight and we’re going to win that fight. Ukraine will be funded.”
Over in the Senate, the failure to include Ukraine funding in the spending bill marks a loss for Senate leaders who were outmaneuvered by McCarthy — and a setback to a cornerstone of Biden’s foreign policy agenda. The stopgap without Ukraine money got to Biden’s desk primarily because of House Democratic support, giving McCarthy strong leverage over Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.). Now, Biden (https://thehill.com/people/joe-biden/)will have to get Democrats to align on their strategy if he wants to get more money for the war.  

Politico (https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/02/ukraine-war-funding-00119496): The U.S. will send more aid to Ukraine “soon” amid funding concerns, the White House said.
THE UPSHOT: While the Gaetz vs. McCarthy battle is consuming Washington this week, experts across the political spectrum question whether the congressional chaos will have any long-lasting effect on the Republican brand or damage the party’s chances of retaking the White House next year. As The Hill’s Niall Stanage writes in The Memo (https://thehill.com/?p=4234761), virtually no one thinks the infighting is good for the GOP, but the Republican Party has been riven by factionalism for more than a decade — which makes the current drama just one more episode in a familiar story. 
“Most voters don’t really pay attention to the Machiavellian ins-and-outs of this stuff,” said GOP strategist Dan Judy. “But what voters do see is continued utter dysfunction in Washington. That is what hurts the Republican brand more than the details of any specific situation.”

cont https://thehill.com/newsletters/morning-report/4235205-gaetz-vs-mccarthy-showdown-is-set/

Gunny

10-03-2023, 08:13 AM

I say she's dead wrong. From my POV, Gaetz is the problem and the drama. How accurate that is has little to do with perception.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4233931-greene-warns-expelling-gaetz-will-not-be-tolerated-by-republicans/

Kathianne

10-03-2023, 08:55 AM

Kathianne

10-03-2023, 09:35 AM

More details on what McCarthy backers, names are starting to appear-which is the vast majority of GOP members-release more info on Gaetz and Ethics committee:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/house/mccarthy-allies-charlatan-gaetz-motion-vacate-vote

McCarthy allies pile on 'charlatan' Gaetz over motion to vacate voteby David Sivak, Congress & Campaigns Editor & Cami Mondeaux, Congressional Reporter & Reese Gorman, Congressional Reporter
October 03, 2023 07:00 AM

Allies of Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) are portraying Rep. Matt Gaetz as a self-serving obstacle to his own party as the Florida Republican attempts to oust the speaker.

Gaetz has been threatening for months to call a vote of no confidence, claiming McCarthy has "breached" the agreement he negotiated with hard-line conservatives in January to win the gavel. He finally pulled the trigger on Monday, two days after the House passed a stopgap bill to avert a government shutdown with the help of Democrats.

Gaetz framed the bill, which will fund the government for 45 days while House Republicans work through a series of conservative spending measures, as a betrayal — although a majority of his conference voted for it, so did nearly all Democrats. However, allies of McCarthy say it is Gaetz who is conspiring with Democrats in his effort to depose the speaker.

Gaetz's voice is a distinct minority within his conference, but he and a group of conservative hard-liners have outsize leverage given McCarthy's four-seat majority in the chamber. He needs the help of just four other Republicans to topple McCarthy, assuming all Democrats vote for his ouster.

Democrats could bail McCarthy out, extending him just enough votes to cancel out a conservative mutiny, but doing so would require concessions on everything from Ukraine funding to the impeachment inquiry into President Joe Biden.

Gaetz has taunted McCarthy over that prospect, saying if he survives the no-confidence vote, he'll be "serving at the pleasure of the Democrats."

Yet McCarthy allies make the opposite case: that any effort to oust the speaker, who enjoys overwhelming support from his conference, would create the striking visual of Gaetz siding with Democrats in opposition to his Republican colleagues.

“I think it's clear that Matt Gaetz is trying to undermine the Republican majority and the speaker for his own personal and political purposes,” said Rep. Mike Lawler (R-NY), who represents a district won by Biden in 2020.

“And I think the fact that he would even entertain the idea of working with the 'Squad' and progressive Democrats to undermine the House majority speaks volumes," he added.

Gaetz spoke with influential Democrats including Progressive Caucus Chairwoman Pramila Jayapal (D-WA) as he gauged support for a motion to vacate, according to Politico. Allies even accuse him of offering Democrats a say in who gets subpoenaed in House Republicans' impeachment investigation.

Gaetz has categorically denied those claims. "Absolutely not," he said on Sunday when asked if he'd cut a deal with Democrats. "And I don't think that any Republicans that share my view on Speaker McCarthy would cut deals with Democrats."

But the insinuation that Gaetz does not have the best interests of his conference at heart is central to the attempt by McCarthy allies to marginalize him as a motion to vacate fight unfolds.

Gaetz insists his crusade is about keeping McCarthy accountable, yet his critics say it's personal, repeatedly citing the House Ethics Committee investigation into him. That investigation, focused on allegations of sexual misconduct that Gaetz denies, predates McCarthy's speakership, but McCarthy suggests that Gaetz is so militantly against him because he has not intervened to shut it down.

Gaetz, for his part, dismisses the idea that he faults McCarthy. He is, however, fundraising off reports that colleagues want to use the findings of that investigation to boot him from Congress.

The bad blood is nothing new. Gaetz famously called McCarthy a squatter for occupying the speaker's office before he locked down the gavel. And at the height of tensions that January, McCarthy ally Mike Rogers (R-AL) appeared to lunge at Gaetz after the 14th round of voting.

McCarthy until now has taken a "if you can't beat them, join them" approach to governance. He's steered his conference to the right, promising deep spending cuts and a hard line on issues including the border. His decision to lower the threshold for a no-confidence vote to a single member is partly why he's in his current predicament.

Conservatives, infuriated by the deal McCarthy cut with Biden in the spring to raise the debt ceiling, do not trust that he will follow through on his promises and have taken ever more aggressive steps to ensure his compliance.

Yet McCarthy has responded in kind in recent weeks. He's dared Gaetz to file the motion and, at great personal risk to his speakership, scrapped a more conservative stopgap measure that fell apart after 21 Republicans voted against it. Instead, he brought to the floor a largely "clean" measure that Democrats could get behind on Saturday.

Following the decision to file a motion to vacate, which tees up a vote that must occur within the next two legislative days, McCarthy responded with three words: "Bring it on."

Gaetz says McCarthy is just playing "shutdown politics," attempting to move the goalposts until lawmakers feel compelled to pass a bloated omnibus bill before leaving town for Christmas.

But McCarthy allies lay blame directly at Gaetz's feet, arguing his tactics are getting in the way of the very conservative agenda he's been tasked with pursuing. Among those tactics are the votes he helped tank as the House took up its annual spending bills.

"Some of the distractions and theatrics that are going on are actually resulting in worse outcomes that are actually contrary to Republican objectives," said Rep. Garret Graves (R-LA), one of McCarthy's top negotiators in the debt ceiling fight. "And so, I think it's really important to stay focused on facts, stay focused on outcomes, and not the actual theatrics that we're that we're seeing go down."

The big question is whether McCarthy can convince his right flank that he, not Gaetz, is worth following through the fight. The well of suspicion and distrust runs deep for McCarthy, whom his critics view as a political chameleon. At least five lawmakers were in favor of or inclined to support Gaetz's no-confidence vote as of Monday night.

Yet Rep. Dusty Johnson (R-SD), a McCarthy ally and Republican centrist, judged that the move would backfire on Gaetz.

"I think Mr. Gaetz is making a massive strategic miscalculation," he said. "It seems to me that more than anything, there has been a rally around the leader from within the conference."

And at least some hard-liners, including Freedom Caucus members Chip Roy (R-TX) and Byron Donalds (R-FL), want to give McCarthy the breathing room to get through the appropriations process.

“I think that the speaker deserves the ability to finish this year’s process, through the appropriations process, through the battle of funding government, through the Ukraine debate and border, and to honor the commitments he's made,” Roy, the policy chairman of the caucus, told Fox News's Sean Hannity on Monday.

McCarthy plans to pass all 12 appropriations bills by the new government funding deadline of Nov. 17.

"We're going to finish that out like we're supposed to do. This is what the time clock allows us to do," McCarthy told reporters on Monday. "And we're focused on eliminating wasteful spending, getting the 'wokeism' out, but most importantly, securing our border — that is key."

Standing in the way of delivering on the promises to his right flank are Democrats, who control the Senate and White House. They have already rejected the House's spending bills, which are being marked up below the levels agreed to in the debt ceiling compromise.

That last bit, is the reason compromises must be made.

Kathianne

10-03-2023, 10:58 PM

As I've said, I hope they eject Gaetz from the House. Meanwhile the following sums things up for today:

https://pjmedia.com/columns/paula-bolyard/2023/10/03/i-dont-think-the-house-fight-worked-out-the-way-matt-gaetz-thought-it-would-n1732062

I Don't Think the House Fight Worked Out the Way Matt Gaetz Thought It WouldBY PAULA BOLYARD 10:32 PM ON OCTOBER 03, 2023

Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) successfully led a coup against now-former House Speaker Kevin McCarthy on Tuesday. He managed to eke out a “win” by rallying the entire Democrat caucus and eight Republicans to oust him. It’s the first time that has happened in U.S. history.

And it’s a total clown show.

Not only does it distract from the already tense budget negotiations, but it makes a laughingstock of the GOP—and the U.S.—and gives Democrats even more leverage to push through their radical policies.

Gaetz got a win, but at what cost? Sure, he’ll raise a lot of campaign money from this—he’s already sending out emails and asking for money on Fox News— but is there a plan going forward? Of course not. The two congressmen whose names have been bandied about as potential House speakers—Jim Jordan (Ohio) and Steve Scalise (La.)—both spoke on behalf of McCarthy ahead of the vote and then voted to keep him as speaker. McCarthy announced tonight that he will not seek reelection as speaker. Gaetz stated emphatically that he doesn’t want the job. At publishing time, Scalise had sort of thrown his hat into the ring, and some are floating Trump as the next speaker, but none of that will be sorted out quickly.

House Democrats and Republicans have been at a stalemate over budget negotiations. The continuing resolution will expire on Nov. 17. There will be another showdown and possible shutdown as the country races toward the proverbial fiscal cliff. Instead of working on that problem, Republicans will be squabbling over the speakership. How does that help the country?

Gaetz, whether intentionally or ignorantly, overplayed his hand. He’s being celebrated in some circles as the brave defender of all that’s good, but not everyone is on board.

Asked about former president Trump’s support for his plan to oust McCarthy—whom Trump had endorsed and supported throughout his tenure—Gaetz equivocated and wouldn’t give a straight answer.

Trump took to Truth Social to berate Republicans for their disunity, writing, “Why is it that Republicans are always fighting among themselves, why aren’t they fighting the Radical Left Democrats who are destroying our Country?

Hardly a ringing endorsement of Gaetz’s strategy (if he even had one).

Fox News host Jesse Watters didn’t have anything nice to say about today’s dog-and-pony show, and Sean Hannity asked, “Was this the best strategic and tactical approach at this moment?”

“Now uncertainty reigns supreme on Capitol Hill,” he added. While acknowledging that Gaetz and the other seven Republicans had legitimate concerns, he said, “Many of those measures could have been dealt with” under McCarthy’s leadership.

“So today, the question we all have is, was the nuclear option needed? Was it worth it? Well, I can tell you right now, I don’t know. Time will certainly tell whether this was a good move or a bad move. One reality will not change: Republicans have a minuscule majority, whoever the speaker is.”

And that’s the problem. Whoever becomes the next speaker will still have to deal with the same reality. The GOP has a slim majority that ranges from left-leaning Republicans in Democrat districts to moderates to the eight holdouts. And Democrats can still block anything the House sends over.

No one, not even legendary former Speaker Newt Gingrich, arguably one of the most successful Republican House leaders in history, could 100% unify the Republican caucus.

And speaking of Gringrich, he lambasted Gaetz and his compatriots on “Hannity” Tuesday night. “It’s a very sad day,” he said. “Kevin McCarthy is one of the most talented leaders I’ve ever worked with. I think that he accomplished an amazing amount while having a small majority” and battling both the Senate and the White House. He called the outcome “tragic.”

“The University of Georgia Bulldogs is the number one team in the country now. If you started a game, and four of the members of the offensive squad decided they were actually on the Alabama side and begin tackling your own people, you’d probably get them off the field.”

“Think about what we saw today,” he continued. “Four percent—four percent—[of the Republican caucus] decided they were so morally superior, so intellectually pure, so patriotically better, that they would side with the Democrats. That’s what they did in order to defeat the entire Republican House caucus.” He called the eight Republicans who sided with Democrats “traitors” who should be primaried and “driven out of public life.”

“They [chose] to go to the other team to cause total chaos.” And instead of focusing on issues that matter to the American people, “You’re gonna get a week or ten days of the media focusing on Republican disarray. It’s an astonishingly destructive behavior by a handful of egocentric people who think they’re superior to 96% of the country.”

If Gaetz expected universal support for using the nuclear option, he was sadly mistaken. Jim Jordan summed up the debacle by saying, “I think this is a day where we say, ‘Look, what happened here was not good.’ I think what happened to Kevin McCarthy was not fair. Let’s figure out how we come together as a conference and focus on our agenda.”

Unfortunately, that’s unrealistic at this point, thanks to Gaetz and his merry band of showboaters.

Kathianne

10-03-2023, 11:22 PM

Just sent Eli Crane an email telling him I'll never vote for him again. He and Gaetz & Co put themselves before country, constituents and party. Shame on them.

Kathianne

10-03-2023, 11:31 PM

Best editorial so far, it's what both Gunny and I have been talking about since 2016. Much like McConnell and now McCarthy I really think people say, 'I don't like them, they are weasels...' I often wonder if they even have a clue they've been programmed to say that and sound every bit as much as sheep as the left does on most everything. Thanks to MSM and the bullies on the right.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/kevin-mccarthy-removed-as-speaker-house-motion-to-vacate-eight-republicans-gop-matt-gaetz-5fb0e1c2?st=swpqasj0r2l01uu&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Republicans Cut Off Their Own HeadsA gang of eight ousts a Speaker with no plan or replacement in mind.
By
The Editorial Board
Follow
Updated Oct. 3, 2023 8:24 pm ET

A band of eight Republicans succeeded in ousting Kevin McCarthy as House Speaker on Tuesday, and we trust they’re happy. They now have the chaos they wanted, though it isn’t clear what else they hope to achieve. Their clever plan seems to be to cut off their own heads.

Mr. McCarthy lost his job, but he rose in our esteem in recent days by the way he has handled this threatened coup. He put the country first on Saturday in refusing to let the plotters shut down the government for no good purpose. Then on Tuesday he refused to ask Democrats for a power-sharing deal in return for votes to rescue his Speakership. He put his party above his job, and his reward is that he is the first Speaker ousted in history. The vote was 216-210.

In retrospect the die may have been cast at the start of this Congress when Mr. McCarthy conceded to a rule that any single Member could offer a motion to vacate his chair. He may have had no choice to win the job, and he did so assuming at least some goodwill among his critics. The reality is that they were always lying in wait to strike.

We refer to Reps. Matt Gaetz, Nancy Mace, Eli Crane, Andy Biggs, Matt Rosendale, Bob Good, Tim Burchett and Ken Buck. They united with Democrats to topple a Republican Speaker without a plan, a replacement, or even a policy goal in mind. Four percent of the Republican conference trumped the 96% who supported the Speaker.

Mr. Biggs argued on the floor that the House hadn’t passed the 12 annual spending bills on time, but that’s because of demands from Members like him. He and Mr. Gaetz offered mainly a list of grievances and supposedly failed promises that had no chance of being realized this Congress. Their real motive looks to be spite, personal and political, and the result is to sow chaos in their own ranks.

Democrats decided not to assist Mr. McCarthy, and no doubt they are enjoying the Republican turmoil. Their decision may have been made when Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said on the weekend that she would vote to oust Mr. McCarthy. Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries would have jeopardized his own leadership if he had bucked the Democratic left.

But Democrats may come to miss the former Speaker if the chaos lasts for some time and leads to government shutdowns or failure to pass aid to Ukraine. The next Speaker might be weaker than Mr. McCarthy and even less willing to say no to the rejectionists.

Mr. McCarthy accomplished more than he gets credit for during his short tenure as Speaker. He negotiated a debt-ceiling deal that put a cap on domestic discretionary spending and clawed back some unspent pandemic money. He created the special China committee that is building a bipartisan consensus on how to defend Taiwan and respond to the Communist Party’s ambitions. He also moved to restore some bipartisan comity to the Intelligence Committee after Adam Schiff’s partisan manipulation.

The ouster captures the degraded state of the Republican Party in this era of rage. Members in safe seats can fuel their own fund-raising and careers by claiming to “fight” against all and sundry without doing the hard work to accomplish what they claim to be fighting for. Mr. Gaetz is the prototype of this modern performance artist, as he raises money for a potential run for Florida Governor.

As we went to press, the path forward for the House wasn’t clear. North Carolina Rep. Patrick McHenry becomes Speaker Pro Tem, per a list Mr. McCarthy had submitted to the House clerk. But the search for a permanent Speaker could be long and chaotic.

Mr. McCarthy said Tuesday night in classy remarks that he won’t run again. Other names will surface, but who in the world would want the chair knowing it comes with the constant peril of being ousted? Anyone courted for the position should refuse to accept without a change in House rules so the support of at least 20 Members would be required to vacate the Speaker’s chair. The House majority can’t be held hostage to the Jacobins on either side of the aisle.

Meanwhile, the House is essentially frozen. The putative GOP majority is weaker, and its ability to gain any policy victories has been undermined. Oversight of the Biden Administration will slow or stop. Republicans in swing districts who are vulnerable in 2024 will be especially wary of trusting the Gaetz faction, and regaining any unity of purpose will be that much harder. The crazy left and right are cheering, but no one else is.

Yes, Mr. Gaetz worked with Jayapal and AOC to bring down McCarthy-that's his buds.

fj1200

10-04-2023, 05:53 AM

WTF is wrong with people?!?

Gunny

10-04-2023, 07:41 AM

WTF is wrong with people?!?I have no answer to the question. Are we geniuses? We call this crap, it's THAT obvious. Cause and effect. I don't consider myself the sharpest knife in the drawer and I, as well as others, can see the results of certain actions plain as day.

And they march in lockstep right up and do it any damned way:rolleyes:

There is absolutely NOTHING in this for Gaetz & Co except carrying out Gaetz's personal vendetta against McCarthy. Nothing else works here. What's next? Gaetz calling for the removal of the pro temp if he doesn't cave?:rolleyes: Caving means no passed budget. What appeal do these twits think their "brave" grandstanding over OUR dead bodies has for the average person?

How to lose the House by the numbers. As much as I despise the air the Dems breathe, these Keystone Kops deserve to lose it.

Kathianne

10-04-2023, 11:10 PM

Another good one, I like the closing line:

That message is a gift to Democrats, who are going into the next election with a sluggish economy, inflation, an open border, urban decay and an aged president. Biden’s unpopularity is surpassed only by his vice president. They needed a gift. And Matt Gaetz gave them a big one.

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fthespectator.com%2Ftopic%2Fm att-gaetz-fire-alarm-kevin-mccarthy-congress%2F

Matt Gaetz pulls the fire alarmIt wasn’t a false alarm. He set the fire to burn out Kevin McCarthy

October 3, 2023 | 7:30 pm
Representative Matt Gaetz (Getty)
Written By:

Charles Lipson

Matt Gaetz pulled the alarm but, unlike the stunt by fellow House member Jamaal Bowman, there really was a fire. Gaetz set it himself, with help from seven other Republicans on the party’s populist right. Now the whole party has to deal with the smoking ruins.

Because the majority party has only a slim edge, any small, cohesive group among them can wield huge leverage. They can threaten to sink legislation or oust the Speaker by voting “no,” knowing their party doesn’t have enough votes to carry the day without them (or help from Democrats).

That’s exactly what this “veto coalition,” led by Florida’s Matt Gaetz, did. When they issued the threat to close the government a few days ago, the tactic failed, but only because Democrats voted with most of the Republicans to keep it open. Why did Democrats help? Because the White House told them to, knowing the president would pay a political price if the government shut down, even temporarily. That’s why Biden’s White House wanted the Continuing Resolution (CR) passed.

When Speaker Kevin McCarthy called a floor vote on the CR, the right wing of his caucus was outraged, partly because McCarthy called their bluff, partly because they didn’t get the concessions they wanted.

The vote Tuesday to remove McCarthy as speaker was the populist right’s revenge. They secured only eight Republican votes against McCarthy, but that was enough. It is also a backhanded compliment to McCarthy’s Democratic predecessor, Nancy Pelosi, that she managed her caucus successfully with an equally narrow majority.

Make no mistake: the entire Republican Party will pay an enormous price for this maneuver. It’s one thing to remove a speaker; it’s another to remove him without no obvious way to resolve the resulting impasse. Each day it lasts tells American voters, “Republicans don’t know how to govern.” They know how to use a bullhorn. They know how to stop legislation. They know how to jettison a speaker. But they don’t know how to pass legislation or find a new speaker. That’s a disastrous message to send voters.

As the Republican House majority confronts this mess, they have only two conceivable paths to end it by selecting a speaker. Given their narrow majority, they need first, a candidate who wins virtually the votes in the Republican caucus and could be elected without any Democratic votes, and second, a candidate who wins a large plurality of votes in the caucus and becomes speaker because enough Democrats help them in the floor vote, either by voting with the Republicans or remaining absent.

There are formidable roadblocks on both paths, which is why Gaetz’s move to dump McCarthy was the legislative equivalent of Edvard Munch’s painting, “The Scream.” Or, to put it in a more American idiom, it was dumber than a bag of hammers.

To see why it was such a futile, theatrical gesture, let’s consider each path. In the first one, Republicans settle on a candidate with near unanimity. That won’t happen, or at least not very soon. If it happens at all, it will occur only after days of building pressure from Republican voters and donors — and the party’s leading presidential candidate. Even then, the party might not converge on a unity candidate. Remember, moderates in the caucus can do exactly what Gaetz and his seven colleagues did; they can serve as a “veto coalition.”

In blocking candidates, these representatives on the center-right wouldn’t be acting simply for spite. Over a dozen of them won in districts carried by Joe Biden. They fear any close association with the party’s right wing would sink them in 2024. Kevin McCarthy understood their dilemma, which is why he refused to give in to Gaetz earlier.

What about the second path, the one in which a Republican retains the speaker’s gavel thanks to some Democratic votes or abstentions? That could happen, but it would come with two major consequences. First, it would leave Gaetz’s faction exactly where they were before driving out McCarthy. Their motto is “Damn this party for doing deals with Democrats.” Indeed, McCarthy himself might return. The other consequence is that Democrats wouldn’t provide their votes for free. They would demand concessions. Whatever price the new speaker paid would infuriate some members of his caucus. That’s one reason the victor might keep those terms secret, as some allege McCarthy did to secure Democratic votes for the CR.

Who loses in the mess? The whole country loses because its government is dysfunctional. The Republicans lose because they set the fire and can’t extinguish it. The Democrats win. They can advertise themselves as the party of stability and continuity, while Republicans are erecting a huge sign with the message, “We can grumble but we can’t govern.”

That message is a gift to Democrats, who are going into the next election with a sluggish economy, inflation, an open border, urban decay and an aged president. Biden’s unpopularity is surpassed only by his vice president. They needed a gift. And Matt Gaetz gave them a big one.

By
Charles Lipson

Charles Lipson is the Peter B. Ritzma professor of political science emeritus at the University of Chicago, where he founded the Program on International Politics, Economics and Security, and a Spectator contributing writer.

SassyLady

10-05-2023, 02:36 AM

fj1200

10-05-2023, 05:48 AM

I'll go on record disagreeing with everyone here.

Can't say why but I believe it's time for a shakeup ... business as usual is not taking us in the right direction. I may be proven wrong and this turns out to be a total CF but for now I'm not panicking about the ouster.

It strengthened the democrats hand. That alone makes the timing look petty not to mention the almost complete lack of power there is to change anything until an election is had.

SassyLady

10-05-2023, 09:32 AM

Disruption is often a catalyst for change. I think we can all agree that something needs to change.

I think this shakeup has got people's attention. The vote in January was to show people things needed to change. It didn't change so now there's another shakeup. Mainly to show the public just how corrupted congress is.

What was actually being changed prior to the ouster? Was was actually accomplished under McCarthy?

Kathianne

10-05-2023, 10:05 AM

Kathianne

10-05-2023, 10:17 AM

Continuing the pattern:

https://hotair.com/david-strom/2023/10/05/guess-who-biden-tapped-to-lead-the-office-of-special-counsel-n582440

Guess who Biden tapped to lead the Office of Special Counsel...DAVID STROM 10:41 AM on October 05, 2023

Guess who Biden tapped to lead the Office of Special Counsel...
AP Photo/Andrew Harnik, File
A Hunter Biden law partner.

A former partner, actually, because Hunter Biden hasn’t been practicing law in…forever, really. Did he actually do anything as a lawyer other than flaunt his name? He broke the law a lot, but never really practiced it.

Still, the white-shoe law firm Boies Schiller Flexner employed Hunter and, lo and behold represented Burisma when Hunter was on the Board.

Joe Biden has decided that connection to his son apparently makes him a good choice to lead the Office of Special Counsel.

Because of course he does.

They don’t even try to hide their corruption, do they?

Biden on Wednesday tapped Hampton Dellinger to lead the office, which investigates corruption in the executive branch and provides protections to federal whistleblowers. Dellinger currently serves as head of the Justice Department’s office of legal policy.

If confirmed, Dellinger could create a conflict of interest given his links to Hunter Biden. Dellinger and the younger Biden worked together at the white shoe law firm Boies Schiller Flexner, the Washington Free Beacon reported. In 2014, Hunter Biden tapped Boies Schiller Flexner to represent Burisma Holdings, the Ukrainian energy firm where he served as a board member.

Hunter Biden and Boies Schiller Flexner’s crisis management and government response team developed a public relations and lobbying strategy to help Burisma, according to emails from Biden’s laptop. Dellinger served on Boies Schiller Flexner’s Crisis Management and Government Response team, though it is unclear if he did any work for Burisma.

In theory, the fact that two lawyers served at the same law firm doesn’t mean that there is anything necessarily unethical about a potential adversarial relationship between them, although it always looks bad. Assuming that both lawyers are completely ethical and above-board it is conceivable that integrity could override loyalty. Conceivable.

But c’mon. We are talking about Joe Biden, Hunter Biden, Burisma, and a friend of Hunter’s being in charge of a government office that is charged with investigating corruption.

As I said, they aren’t even trying to hide the coverups. They are that confident that the MSM and Democrats will defend them to the death.

Among the potential targets for Dellinger could be the IRS whistleblowers, who are being accused of committing crimes for blowing the whistle on the Hunter Biden tax case coverup. So not only could Dellinger cover for Hunter and Joe, he could also be in a position to retaliate against the very people who are exposing just how corrupt the “investigation” into Hunter Biden has been.

It is striking how incurious the MSM has been about the vast miasma of corruption emanating from the Biden Administration, the Justice Department, the FBI, and the US Attorneys’ offices. Nobody seems to give a damn about all the stink and the circumstantial (and stronger) evidence that Joe was in business with his son to sell influence and policy and is now engaged in a coverup through obstructing justice.

Political corruption is something of a constant, and the media is supposed to be our watchdog. They aren’t. They have partnered with the Democrats, and are even more responsible for selling out the country than Biden.

In that sense, they are worse than the Democrats. Everybody knows to distrust politicians; many people still haven’t figured out that the media lies to them even more than politicians.

Gunny

10-05-2023, 10:21 AM

As well they should. Good article.

Mentioned is Gaetz fundraising off a manufactured crisis. Recall back when some of us joined Parler? Did so just to add to the numbers at the time. Never posted there nor even look at it. I get a few e-mails every so often anyway. I have received through Parler in the past 3 days 4 e-mails from Gaetz pleading for money claiming he is under attack. I'm sure it's spam.

I'm more in line with the Congress critter that stated was he McCarthy he'd have hit Gaetz square between the eyes with the gavel :grenade:

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4239332-gop-aims-fire-at-gaetz-after-mccarthy-ouster/

Kathianne

10-05-2023, 10:23 AM

fj1200

10-05-2023, 04:29 PM

SassyLady

10-06-2023, 02:20 AM

And how did this help that?

Have to wait and see. Not all change happens overnight.

Here's a thought...why did Biden suddenly decide to start building the wall again? Afraid the new house leadership might inpeach mayorkas?

Kathianne

10-06-2023, 03:22 AM

Many of us agree with this:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mccarthys-fall-is-a-comedy-without-laughs-house-speaker-gaetz-gop-election-ec169034?st=jgyovso3y2scs2s&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

OPINIONDECLARATIONS
McCarthy’s Fall Is a Comedy Without Laughs
His chief antagonist, Matt Gaetz, is a cartoon villain, a man so small he makes decadence look banal.
Peggy Noonan
Oct. 5, 2023 6:41 pm ET

I want to respond to the toppling of Speaker Kevin McCarthy with the gravity appropriate to a signal event that carries such immense implications (America’s reputation for stability once again weakened, a government shutdown looming, no replacement in sight).

Yet the whole thing is so . . . below the country. It’s so without heightened meaning. It’s as if Julius Caesar were stabbed to death in the Forum by the Marx Brothers.

The killers weren’t serious people, they don’t have a serious purpose, they have no plan or platform. They are led by a great doofus, a cartoon villain with Elvis hair, a political nepo baby whose father was president of the Florida Senate, a guy whose way was paved. Tearing things down is his business model. At least the Marx Brothers made you laugh.

Mr. Gaetz is so small, he makes decadence look banal. Almost everyone believes he was driven by personal motives: An ethics investigation, launched in 2021, went forward in the House, and Mr. McCarthy didn’t stop it. (An earlier Justice Department probe was dropped without charges.) It involves allegations of sexual misconduct, illicit drug use, misuse of campaign funds and sharing inappropriate images on the House floor. (Mr. Gaetz has denied the allegations.) The day of Mr. McCarthy’s fall, Sen. Markwayne Mullin of Oklahoma, who served in the House with Mr. Gaetz, told CNN that when accusations surfaced in the now-concluded Justice Department probe involving Mr. Gaetz and a 17-year-old girl, “there’s a reason why no one in the Congress came and defended him.” The reason? “We had all seen the videos he was showing on the House floor,” of women with whom he claimed to have had intimate relations. Mr. Mullin said Mr. Gaetz found fame nine months ago when he opposed Mr. McCarthy’s bid for the speakership. Now “he got this last moment of fame.”

I hope it is his last moment of fame. I doubt it.

...

On Wednesday, feeling bleak, I reckoned that demoralized Republicans had two options. First, they could pick as speaker a nut from the nut caucus that did Mr. McCarthy in, and then wait for it to all blow up. It would within months, because they can’t govern. They have verve, they raise money, they know how to use social media and tickle the party’s id. But they can’t lead institutions because they don’t respect institutions because they’re not in the least conservative. They’re a bunch of crazy narcissists, and narcissists can’t create and sustain coalitions because that means other people exist. But picking one of them and watching him flail might break some of the fever.

Or the conference could pick someone normal, someone who connects with moderate Republicans and the nuttier quadrants. The nuts themselves might support someone like that now. They’d think it would show they were always sincere and it was never personal. They’d follow that vote with a party at which they talk about how the new speaker has better personal relationships than Kevin, and his word is more reliable. Then, after a few months or a year, they’d try to kill him.

But a few days later I thought there’s hope in this: There are 221 Republicans in the House, and only eight of them voted, with all the Democrats, to remove the speaker. That number was decisive, it carried the day, but it was small.

The normal Republicans and conservatives who numerically dominate the GOP conference have to assert themselves in a new way. The Gaetz Eight should be shunned and Mr. Gaetz expelled from the conference. He thinks he’s such a big freelance power, let him be freelance. Yes, I know this likely will not happen, but it should. Some will only recognize what has been lost when it can no longer be found.

Members who took a constructive part should stand together. They have to stop seeing themselves as victims of those who make chaos. They should spy an opening where it exists. What’s happening in the GOP isn’t a civil war but a split on the Trumpian right. Mr. Gaetz sent out a fundraising email this week saying Mr. McCarthy was “Democrat-owned,” lies to conservatives and cut deals with Democrats. Right-wing radio star Mark Levin immediately shot him down on Twitter: “But Marxist Democrats unanimously backed you, moron.” He suggested Mr. Gaetz should vacate his own seat after his “shameless serial lies to conservatives.”

That split is an opening, exploit it. And don’t allow the next speaker to agree that in the future it will only take one vote to vacate the office.

There are tens of millions of normal Republicans and conservatives all over this country, and they too should be pushing back against the chaos.

...

fj1200

10-06-2023, 07:36 AM

Have to wait and see. Not all change happens overnight.

Here's a thought...why did Biden suddenly decide to start building the wall again? Afraid the new house leadership might inpeach mayorkas?

I have a hard time imagining he was cowed into building a border wall by a man-without-a-plan and his 7 stooges with the Republicans looking like they can't hold things together. But you know, stranger things... :rolleyes:

Gunny

10-06-2023, 11:26 AM

I have a hard time imagining he was cowed into building a border wall by a man-without-a-plan and his 7 stooges with the Republicans looking like they can't hold things together. But you know, stranger things... :rolleyes:In the Border wall thread.

Short version: He and his cronies could not find a way to reappropriate (steal) the money. Apparently it is locked in. So he's building 20 miles of Wall where 500 miles is needed. That's if he doesn't sell off the material for the wall first which he has been doing like our strategic oil reserve and weapons. It's paid for, sitting in one of the Border towns.

Kathianne

10-06-2023, 11:45 AM

In the Border wall thread.

Short version: He and his cronies could not find a way to reappropriate (steal) the money. Apparently it is locked in. So he's building 20 miles of Wall where 500 miles is needed. That's if he doesn't sell off the material for the wall first which he has been doing like our strategic oil reserve and weapons. It's paid for, sitting in one of the Border towns.
This and he thinks the border people are idiots, that he can say, "We hear you!" Not too mention his own Dem buddies in NY and IL.

Gunny

10-06-2023, 11:47 AM

This and he thinks the border people are idiots, that he can say, "We hear you!" Not too mention his own Dem buddies in NY and IL.Totally agree. While the Republican't's are having their civil war and accomplishing nothing, Biden's already positioning this lame stunt as a "See? I did something about the Border":rolleyes:

Anybody that wants to can see right through it.

Kathianne

10-06-2023, 12:29 PM

Best yet?

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2023/10/06/matt_gaetz_didnt_oust_mccarthy_he_just_helped_demo crats_do_it_149853.html

Matt Gaetz Didn't Oust McCarthy. He Just Helped Democrats Do It.By David Harsanyi
October 06, 2023

Kevin McCarthy has become the first House speaker to ever be successfully ousted in a motion to vacate vote. One day, you can tell your grandchildren you were alive to witness this completely pointless bit of history.

Rep. Matt Gaetz's (R-Fla.) self-aggrandizing political stunt makes no sense and changes nothing -- other than perhaps his fundraising totals. And other than some platitudinous blathering about "the establishment" and "the uniparty," I still haven't seen anyone offer a coherent reason -- not even retroactively -- for how any of this is the "best way to advance the conservative agenda."

It would be one thing, perhaps an admirable thing, if Gaetz had gone on this crusade for a coherent ideological or principled reason. But his post-ousting demagoguery and grandstanding about issues completely unrelated to McCarthy's job performance proved it was a personal matter.

"I don't think voting against Kevin McCarthy is chaos," Gaetz explained. "I think $33 trillion in debt is chaos. I think that facing a $2.2-trillion annual deficit is chaos." Now, there are numerous people to blame for the impending fiscal disaster, but McCarthy is no more guilty than most.

One of the least convincing claims by Gaetz's defenders is that McCarthy was punished for ignoring the base. "The base," of course, is a popular euphemism for the most vociferous populist faction of the GOP. This faction enjoys blowing things up -- mostly their own party's prospects. In this case, the "base" was represented by eight Republicans and the entire Democratic Party.

And among these principled eight GOPers who were fighting for the honor of the base -- what The New York Times called the "far-right GOP faction" -- were Reps. Nancy Mace (who said Gaetz was a "fraud" the last time he tried to knock off McCarthy) and Ken Buck (who we last heard was reportedly looking for a CNN gig). I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the future of conservatism was not the motivating factor for their votes.

Most Trump-endorsed candidates didn't even participate in McCarthy's removal. Donald Trump himself tepidly supported the speaker because, as he noted, the man had said "very great things" about him. And, really, what's more important? Though, I bet McCarthy was expecting a far more energetic defense after pathetically ingratiating himself to the former president a couple of weeks ago.

Even if Gaetz had excellent reasons, Republicans did not eject McCarthy. Eight Republicans can't do anything by themselves. No, 208 Democrats ousted McCarthy with the help of some petulant backbenchers nursing personal vendettas. It is a political coup for the Dems.

Gaetz, who only yesterday was going on about McCarthy's "secret deal" with Democrats, had no qualms sitting on the opposition side of the House plotting to oust a speaker who holds a rickety nine-seat majority. If there was actually a brewing House rebellion, Gaetz would have been able to corral far more votes.

But Gaetz wanted to "break the fever" of D.C., so he teamed up with minority leader Hakeem Jeffries, "the squad," Adam Schiff and so on. Jeffries claimed he was supporting Gaetz's efforts because Republicans have shown an "unwillingness to break from MAGA extremism in an authentic and comprehensive manner."

The notion that Democrats are backing a leading MAGA loyalist because they want to temper the "extremism" of Republicans makes about as much sense as Jamaal Bowman's fire alarm story. Democrats keep pretending they yearn for a more responsible GOP and stable political environment, then keep supporting every fringe effort and candidate to undermine both.

Of course, no one is owed anything. McCarthy isn't the only person available in D.C. to serve as a middling speaker of the House. And, frankly, if he'd been more talented at the job, he might have headed off this challenge more effectively. But it's doubtful anyone is going to perform better with a slender majority and the Senate and presidency in Democrats' hands.

But then again, none of that matters when you're having a tantrum.

Black Diamond

10-06-2023, 12:32 PM

ROFLMAO. Yes that's the best yet. Except for Jim smoking weed from an apple.

SassyLady

10-06-2023, 12:35 PM

Many of us agree with this:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mccarthys-fall-is-a-comedy-without-laughs-house-speaker-gaetz-gop-election-ec169034?st=jgyovso3y2scs2s&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Yes, I know this likely will not happen, but it should. Some will only recognize what has been lost when it can no longer be found.

And many of us believe this

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/10/wayne-root-here-is-what-gop-base-believes/

fj1200

10-06-2023, 04:25 PM

And many of us believe this

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/10/wayne-root-here-is-what-gop-base-believes/

I believe that he is wrong because... populism, and his ilk will have no idea how to get things done if he gets his way. If by some freak of nature he is correct... we're screwed because his ilk will be a minority party until the end of the country.

SassyLady

10-06-2023, 05:21 PM

I believe that he is wrong because... populism, and his ilk will have no idea how to get things done if he gets his way. If by some freak of nature he is correct... we're screwed because his ilk will be a minority party until the end of the country.

I guess corruption does, in fact, make this country run if I'm hearing you right.

fj1200

10-06-2023, 05:25 PM

I guess corruption does, in fact, make this country run if I'm hearing you right.

No. What's their position on Medicare and Social Security?

SassyLady

10-06-2023, 05:45 PM

No. What's their position on Medicare and Social Security?

Who? Jim Jordan?

fj1200

10-06-2023, 06:43 PM

Who? Jim Jordan?

Anyone in the no-plan-clan who is complaining about the debt levels. trump, gaetz, jordan, root, etc.

SassyLady

10-06-2023, 09:04 PM

Anyone in the no-plan-clan who is complaining about the debt levels. trump, gaetz, jordan, root, etc.

What do you think their position is?

fj1200

10-07-2023, 07:25 AM

What do you think their position is?

If they don't have a position on entitlement reform then their national debt positions are political posturing.

SassyLady

10-07-2023, 03:07 PM

If they don't have a position on entitlement reform then their national debt positions are political posturing.
So, what do you think their position on entitlement reform is?

fj1200

10-07-2023, 03:15 PM

Anyway...

SassyLady

10-07-2023, 11:48 PM

Anyway...

Yeah ... didn't think you'd answer.

fj1200

10-08-2023, 11:32 AM

Yeah ... didn't think you'd answer.

To what end?

SassyLady

10-08-2023, 11:53 AM

To what end?
Precisely.

fj1200

10-08-2023, 11:53 AM

Precisely.

You win I guess.