China's Economy Is Basically In Freefall, Hope They Choose Wisely

[Kathianne]

China's had worrisome news from before pandemic, seems it's only getting worse. Hoping China doesn't rush to war, to avoid the delay if the economy collapses.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-slips-into-deflation-in-warning-sign-for-world-economy-bbefb179?st=u2ycnuuq27anavp&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink


ECONOMYASIA ECONOMY
China Slips Into Deflation in Warning Sign for World Economy
The lifting of Covid-19 pandemic curbs has been followed by an unusual bout of falling consumer prices instead of a surge
By Stella Yifan Xie Updated Aug. 9, 2023 10:30 am ET

HONG KONG—China’s deepening economic malaise has entered a potentially dangerous new phase.


In July, consumer prices in the world’s second-largest economy tipped into deflationary territory for the first time in two years, as a host of other problems weigh on its recovery after lifting Covid-19 curbs. A drop in exports is accelerating, youth unemployment has hit record highs and its housing market is mired in a protracted downturn.


Now, the country is suffering an unusual bout of falling prices on a range of goods, from commodities such as steel and coal to daily essentials and consumer products such as vegetables and home appliances. It is the opposite of what happened in much of the world when Covid-19 restrictions eased, with many countries still trying to tame inflation.


The danger is that if the expectation of falling prices becomes entrenched, it could further sap demand, exacerbate debt burdens and even lock the economy into a trap that will be hard to escape using the stimulus measures Chinese policy makers have traditionally turned to.


Deflation is particularly risky for countries with high debt burdens such as China, since it will add to debt servicing costs for borrowers and likely prompt them to spend and invest less.

...

[fj1200]

As tensions rise, U.S. imports from China plummet (https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/08/us-china-imports-drop-00110243)

[Kathianne]

As tensions rise, U.S. imports from China plummet (https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/08/us-china-imports-drop-00110243)

It's not just US, Europe too. China's productivity isn't what it was. Seems to much emphasis on winning there too.

[fj1200]

It's not just US, Europe too. China's productivity isn't what it was. Seems to much emphasis on winning there too.

https://media.tenor.com/GgSFyx5rS6oAAAAM/wink.gif

Couldn't be happening to a better country. Unless they go all cra-cra.

[Kathianne]

https://media.tenor.com/GgSFyx5rS6oAAAAM/wink.gif

Couldn't be happening to a better country. Unless they go all cra-cra.

The cra cra is what worries me. Sometimes egotistical leaders figure 'better act now, it's going to just get worse down the road.'

[AHZ]

China's had worrisome news from before pandemic, seems it's only getting worse. Hoping China doesn't rush to war, to avoid the delay if the economy collapses.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-slips-into-deflation-in-warning-sign-for-world-economy-bbefb179?st=u2ycnuuq27anavp&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink


china doesnt need war.

they've already won the hearts and minds of world technocrats who admire their tyranny.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

china doesnt need war.

they've already won the hearts and minds of world technocrats who admire their tyranny.

A dictatorship and a nation of slaves will give one that powerful edge methinks.
China fits that bill to a torturous T. ..--Tyr

[AHZ]

A dictatorship and a nation of slaves will give one that powerful edge methinks.
China fits that bill to a torturous T. ..--Tyr
no.

freedom is more powerful.

china is losers.

[fj1200]

china doesnt need war.

they've already won the hearts and minds of world technocrats who admire their tyranny.


no.

freedom is more powerful.

china is losers.

So they've won and they've lost? It's easy to be right when you say nothing and everything at the same time.

[AHZ]

So they've won and they've lost? It's easy to be right when you say nothing and everything at the same time.
they've won the hearts and minds of technocrats; they've not won totally.

technocrats are a minority of deranged individuals who are losing power politically as their totalitarian eugenics plans are exposed.

[Gunny]

It's not just US, Europe too. China's productivity isn't what it was. Seems to much emphasis on winning there too.Isn't the yuan what BRICS is using as its alternative to the dollar? Even though the yuan is tied ot the dollar?

[Kathianne]

Isn't the yuan what BRICS is using as its alternative to the dollar? Even though the yuan is tied ot the dollar?
That I don't know off the cuff. FJ probably does.

[Gunny]

That I don't know off the cuff. FJ probably does.I'm pretty sure it is. IIRC, the deal is these countries doing business among each other and with China in yuan.

The yuan doesn't stand on its own if I understood correctly what I read. I don't recall how, but the dollar is figured in on its value.

[Gunny]

So my next question is: how does this affect the economies of these other countries? I guess it depends on how far they sold out to China. Concern is for those that bought the farm like the Belt n Road colonies.

Have to look at what China can muster in an international front should it choose to take a crack at Taiwan which pretty-much WILL trigger WW III.

[Kathianne]

So my next question is: how does this affect the economies of these other countries? I guess it depends on how far they sold out to China. Concern is for those that bought the farm like the Belt n Road colonies.

Have to look at what China can muster in an international front should it choose to take a crack at Taiwan which pretty-much WILL trigger WW III.

Related?

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/currencies/dedollarization-china-yuan-dollar-dominance-reserve-currency-status-niall-ferguson-2023-5#:~:text=China's%20yuan%20is%20going%20to,It%20ta kes%20time.

[Gunny]

Related?

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/currencies/dedollarization-china-yuan-dollar-dominance-reserve-currency-status-niall-ferguson-2023-5#:~:text=China's%20yuan%20is%20going%20to,It%20ta kes%20time.

Still, isn't the dollar based a lot on our (past and still theoretical) industrial capability? We're still head and shoulders ahead of China if idiots would get out of the way and let us use them.

[fj1200]

Isn't the yuan what BRICS is using as its alternative to the dollar? Even though the yuan is tied ot the dollar?

No. BRICS is Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa wanting to create a currency to compete with the dollar. The Yuan is not a BRICS "dollar" but it isi tied to the dollar with a fixed exchange rate.


I'm pretty sure it is. IIRC, the deal is these countries doing business among each other and with China in yuan.

The yuan doesn't stand on its own if I understood correctly what I read. I don't recall how, but the dollar is figured in on its value.

They're mostly just a trading bloc that wants to take us and the dollar down a notch.


Related?

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/currencies/dedollarization-china-yuan-dollar-dominance-reserve-currency-status-niall-ferguson-2023-5#:~:text=China's%20yuan%20is%20going%20to,It%20ta kes%20time.

Ferguson knows his stuff.


Still, isn't the dollar based a lot on our (past and still theoretical) industrial capability? We're still head and shoulders ahead of China if idiots would get out of the way and let us use them.

I'd say it's based on the quantity theory of money, our full faith and credit, and our being the largest economy on the planet.

[AHZ]

Still, isn't the dollar based a lot on our (past and still theoretical) industrial capability? We're still head and shoulders ahead of China if idiots would get out of the way and let us use them.


it's based on the full faith and credit of the u.s. government, whatever that means.

in practice it means our ability to make people use it.

recently our deals with oil nations to only deal in dollars created the petrodollar or oil bourse, which meant everyone needed american dollars to buy oil, inflating the dolalrs value.

that's coming to an end, and now the realpolitik underpinning of our dollar is in a transition, and a little unknown.

a gold back brics currency could be a real threat.

[fj1200]

it's based on the full faith and credit of the u.s. government, whatever that means.

in practice it means our ability to make people use it.

recently our deals with oil nations to only deal in dollars created the petrodollar or oil bourse, which meant everyone needed american dollars to buy oil, inflating the dolalrs value.

that's coming to an end, and now the realpolitik underpinning of our dollar is in a transition, and a little unknown.

a gold back brics currency could be a real threat.

That's not really true. Treasuries are backed by the full faith and credit.

BRICS are a pipe dream because they will be unwilling to honor what it takes to be a reserve currency backed by gold. And that is exchangability.

[Gunny]

it's based on the full faith and credit of the u.s. government, whatever that means.

in practice it means our ability to make people use it.

recently our deals with oil nations to only deal in dollars created the petrodollar or oil bourse, which meant everyone needed american dollars to buy oil, inflating the dolalrs value.

that's coming to an end, and now the realpolitik underpinning of our dollar is in a transition, and a little unknown.

a gold back brics currency could be a real threat.It means it's based on industrial capability, as I stated.

[AHZ]

That's not really true. Treasuries are backed by the full faith and credit.

BRICS are a pipe dream because they will be unwilling to honor what it takes to be a reserve currency backed by gold. And that is exchangability.


no. its really true.

the security of a gold backed currency instead of a currency that comes with an implied threat is appealing to many.

that's also really true.

[AHZ]

It means it's based on industrial capability, as I stated.

that's technically true in a vague sense, but this discussion is meant in the context of a commodity backed versus fiat currency...

your point is a little adjacent and orthogonal, obfuscatory and off-kilter in my view.

you're free to disagree of course.

[fj1200]

no. its really true.

the security of a gold backed currency instead of a currency that comes with an implied threat is appealing to many.

that's also really true.

As typical, you have no clue what you're talking about. I do see your point about dumb populists though; they're not particularly smart.

[AHZ]

As typical, you have no clue what you're talking about. I do see your point about dumb populists though; they're not particularly smart.


you're welcome to your opinion. as I am welcome to mine.

[fj1200]

you're welcome to your opinion. as I am welcome to mine.

There's opinion based on evidence and then there's... There are zero gold backed currencies in the world today; that might tell you something. But you seem incurious.

[AHZ]

There's opinion based on evidence and then there's... There are zero gold backed currencies in the world today; that might tell you something. But you seem incurious.


this is because all nations are being destoyed by keynesians.

looks like brics may create one.

all fiat currencies from the past have failed. the current ones are headed that way. do you still need a list of current fiat currencies?

gold and hard assets alone retain value across statist fiat money faiures.

fiat money is for the peasantry.

[fj1200]

this is because all nations are being destoyed by keynesians.

looks like brics may create one.

all fiat currencies from the past have failed. the current ones are headed that way. do you still need a list of current fiat currencies?

gold and hard assets alone retain value across statist fiat money faiures.

fiat money is for the peasantry.

You should try reading a book about economics. Thomas Sowell would be good start for you.

[AHZ]

You should try reading a book about economics. Thomas Sowell would be good start for you.


You refuted none of my assertions.

baseless elitism isn't winning.

[fj1200]

You refuted none of my assertions.

baseless elitism isn't winning.

I've refuted them all in various threads. You just don't like what you don't understand and proves you wrong.

[AHZ]

I've refuted them all in various threads. You just don't like what you don't understand and proves you wrong.


what have you refuted as wrong?

nothing as far as i know.

do just one of them right now.

how is it smart to send all the jobs away?

how is fiat currency not totalitarian?

or pick a different argument you've refuted.

oh and chicago economics is just keynesianism without even pretending to care about society.

[AHZ]

barter is the only truly meritocratic system.

and most consistent with freedom principles.

[fj1200]

what have you refuted as wrong?

Everything. You're not interested in discussion. You keep asking the same stupid questions.

[AHZ]

Everything. You're not interested in discussion. You keep asking the same stupid questions.


what stupid questions are those?

[Gunny]

that's technically true in a vague sense, but this discussion is meant in the context of a commodity backed versus fiat currency...

your point is a little adjacent and orthogonal, obfuscatory and off-kilter in my view.

you're free to disagree of course.Dumbass :laugh:

[fj1200]

what stupid questions are those?

For a start.


how is it smart to send all the jobs away?

how is fiat currency not totalitarian?

You should also look up Keynesian.

[AHZ]

For a start.



You should also look up Keynesian.


I think those are good questions.

I put them to you once again.

[fj1200]

I think those are good questions.

I put them to you once again.

First, and for the millionth time, nobody suggested or advocated to send "all the jobs away."

Second, you overstate the supposed benefits of a gold standard. At heart it still relies on government dictat.

But you don't care about discussion. You care about rote repetition no matter how stupid the idea.

[AHZ]

First, and for the millionth time, nobody suggested or advocated to send "all the jobs away."

Second, you overstate the supposed benefits of a gold standard. At heart it still relies on government dictat.

But you don't care about discussion. You care about rote repetition no matter how stupid the idea.


globalists say its fine to maximize cost cutting by sending all the jobs away to slave states.


I said all historical fiat currencies have failed. that's fact.

[fj1200]

globalists say its fine to maximize cost cutting by sending all the jobs away to slave states.


I said all historical fiat currencies have failed. that's fact.

None of that is true which is why you are not good at this.

[AHZ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB4AB7RVP_0

[fj1200]

^I didn't think you'd have an answer. You say things that are demonstrably false.

[AHZ]

None of that is true which is why you are not good at this.
right. globalists are against offshoring and outsourcing.

:rolleyes:

[fj1200]

Again, you try and say everything which means you say nothing at the same time.


right. globalists are against offshoring and outsourcing.


globalists say its fine to maximize cost cutting by sending all the jobs away to slave states.

You're not good at this.

All gold-backed currencies have failed. Fact.

[AHZ]

Again, you try and say everything which means you say nothing at the same time.





You're not good at this.

All gold-backed currencies have failed. Fact.


Im saying the main thing.



the central banker hidden hand have been murdering people who attempt precious metal backed dollars for the past several decades.

non-fiat currencies are a threat to keynesian fake money imperialism.

[fj1200]

Im saying the main thing.



the central banker hidden hand have been murdering people who attempt precious metal backed dollars for the past several decades.

non-fiat currencies are a threat to keynesian fake money imperialism.

No you're not. You're word salad emanations are pointless. You make globalists happy because you have no clue what you're talking about. It's in a populists nature to be clueless.

All gold-backed currencies have failed. Fact.

[AHZ]

No you're not. You're word salad emanations are pointless. You make globalists happy because you have no clue what you're talking about. It's in a populists nature to be clueless.

All gold-backed currencies have failed. Fact.


they are prohibited by keynesian psychotics.


Gold Dinar: the Real Reason Behind Gaddafi’s MurderMay 3, 2019 (https://millenium-state.com/blog/2019/05/03/the-dinar-gold-the-real-reason-for-gaddafis-murder/)
The gold dinar: a groundbreaking initiativeIn 2009, Colonel Gaddafi, then President of the African Union, suggested to the States of the African continent to switch to a new currency, independent of the American dollar: the gold dinar.
The objective of this new currency was to divert oil revenues towards state-controlled funds rather than American banks. In other words, to stop using the dollar for oil transactions. Countries such as Nigeria, Tunisia, Egypt and Angola were ready to change their currencies. Unfortunately in March 2011, the NATO-led coalition began a military intervention in Libya in the name of freedom….
Free water, almost free gasoline, free health system and free education were commonplace for Libyans under Gaddafi’s dictatorship.
The leader, who has been in power for 41 years, has managed to gain the support of all the major tribes and buy social peace through radical measures and a policy of shared oil revenues.
Jihadism, the number one enemy of the West, Gaddafi eliminated it with Napalm in the 1990s. Although he financed many armed groups in the Sahel, Libya itself was a stable country where the risk of being kidnapped or even murdered by an armed militia was non-existent.
With an excellent management of oil revenues, the Libyan state had managed to store hundreds of tons of gold (143 tons according to WikiLeaks) and the same amount in silver. All these resources were going to make Libya the most influential country in Africa, supplanting France for example.
Gaddafi wanted to avoid American influence in his oil transactions by using this gold. He launched the gold dinar project, and other major African governments were ready to support him in this project. It was both an African dream and a nightmare for the West’s financial system.

https://millenium-state.com/blog/2019/05/03/the-dinar-gold-the-real-reason-for-gaddafis-murder/

[fj1200]

they are prohibited by keynesian psychotics.


Gold Dinar: the Real Reason Behind Gaddafi’s Murder

You think a trustable gold backed currency was going to come out of Africa and Gadaffi? :laugh:

[AHZ]

You think a trustable gold backed currency was going to come out of Africa and Gadaffi? :laugh:


Not with a sword up his ass, amirite?

:laugh:

[Kathianne]

Trying again:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-deepening-housing-problems-spook-investors-72022c81?st=qz3dmasf03ds2d8&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink


MARKETSChina’s Deepening Housing Problems Spook Investors
Stocks in Hong Kong and mainland China drop after developer Country Garden flags more debt problems
By Weilun Soon and Rebecca Feng


Updated Aug. 14, 2023 9:24 am ET

China’s latest property crisis is threatening to spill over into the broader economy, worrying investors and causing a broad market selloff.


Chinese stocks fell in Hong Kong and mainland China on Monday, with real-estate developers, electric-vehicle manufacturers and other companies in economically sensitive sectors declining the most. The Hang Seng Index, which is loaded with Chinese companies, dropped 1.6%, taking its year-to-date loss to 5.1%. China’s CSI 300 of large-cap stocks fell 0.73%, and is also in the red for 2023.


The financial struggles of Country Garden Holdings 2007 -18.37%decrease; red down pointing triangle, China’s top surviving privately run developer, have been front-and-center since it missed interest payments on two U.S. dollar bonds a week ago. The property giant said over the weekend that trading in 11 of its yuan-denominated domestic bonds has been suspended, and that it intends to discuss repayment plans with investors. Country Garden’s Hong Kong-listed shares, which had been relegated to penny-stock status last week, fell another 18% on Monday.

...

China’s property sector has gone from being a major contributor to the country’s overall growth to a drag on its economy. New home sales increased in the first few months of 2023, providing a glimmer of hope that the worst of the housing downturn was over. The market turned in April, and nationwide sales at China’s top developers have slumped since. Country Garden’s latest problems are likely to turn off potential home buyers, further delaying a housing recovery.


Data released last week showed that China was slipping into deflation. Households, which have racked up high levels of savings, are also borrowing less.


Chinese banks extended the equivalent of $47.8 billion in new loans in July, down nearly half from the same month a year ago. It was also the lowest monthly total in more than a decade, according to data provider Wind. The July figures reflected slightly higher corporate lending and a drop in lending to households.


The loan data was “a big letdown,” as it reflected a lack of demand for borrowing, said May Ling Wee, a Chinese equities portfolio manager at Janus Henderson Investors. “Animal spirits are very low in China, and the government may need to do some pump-priming,” said Wee.


China’s economic troubles are also weighing on its currency. The offshore yuan depreciated past 7.28 to the U.S. dollar on Monday, and is close to its weakest level this year.


The country is scheduled to release a barrage of economic data on Tuesday, including monthly updates for real-estate investment, factory output and retail sales.


Problems are also cropping up in other financial-asset classes in China. Three publicly listed companies said in recent days that they didn’t receive payments they were promised on wealth-management products sold by Zhongrong International Trust, which is part of Zhongzhi Enterprise Group, a large domestic Chinese conglomerate. The missed payments are making investors worried about China’s sprawling trust industry, which has been a source of funding for property developers in the past.


Country Garden admitted to having liquidity problems last week and said it expects to post a big first-half loss. A default by the 31-year-old developer could have a bigger impact on China’s economy than the slow-motion fallout from China Evergrande Group’s debt crisis that began in 2021, some economists predict.

...

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Trying again:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-deepening-housing-problems-spook-investors-72022c81?st=qz3dmasf03ds2d8&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
One possible side effect of this bad financial crap in China is it may add leverage for China going to war to take Tawain, or else the Philippines. If they are planning on taking territory the need to do so soon--while their boy Herr Biden is President.
Because that idiot is owned by them, imho. --Tyr

[Kathianne]

One possible side effect of this bad financial crap in China is it may add leverage for China going to war to take Tawain, or else the Philippines. If they are planning on taking territory the need to do so soon--while their boy Herr Biden is President.
Because that idiot is owned by them, imho. --Tyr

Indeed, good restatement of point of thread!

[AHZ]

Do we have any leverage against the chinese?

can anyone think of anything?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Do we have any leverage against the chinese?

can anyone think of anything?

No leverage with Herr BIDEN calling the shots for us.
But we can pull back our heavy industries and billions a month from them.
That will/would hurt them deeply.--Tyr

[AHZ]

No leverage with Herr BIDEN calling the shots for us.
But we can pull back our heavy industries and billions a month from them.
That will/would hurt them deeply.--Tyr


:clap::clap::clap::clap::thumb:

[Kathianne]

https://hotair.com/john-s-2/2023/08/18/the-problems-in-chinas-economy-are-spreading-n572077


The problems in China's economy are spreadingJOHN SEXTON 1:20 PM on August 18, 2023

The problems in China's economy are spreading
(AP Photo/Ng Han Guan)
Earlier this week we learned that one of China’s largest real estate firms was on the verge of collapse. Country Garden, which is estimated to owe buyers as many as 1 million new apartments, is weeks away from defaulting on loans. Since then the situation has only gotten worse. Yesterday Evergrande, another property giant, filed for bankruptcy protection.


China’s heavily indebted property giant Evergrande Group on Thursday filed for Chapter 15 bankruptcy protection in a U.S. court…


The world’s most indebted property developer defaulted in 2021 and announced an offshore debt restructuring program in March. Trading of Evergrande shares have been suspended since March 2022…


In July, Evergrande posted a combined loss of $81 billion over the past two years, after struggling to finish projects and repay suppliers and lenders.


The real concern now is that problems in the real estate sector will spread to the rest of the economy. There are signs this week that may already be happening. A major Chinese trust which operates as a shadow bank has failed to make several payments.


Zhongrong Trust, which managed $87 billion worth of funds for corporate clients and wealthy individuals as of the end of 2022, is one of thousands of wealth management firms in China that offer relatively high levels of return to investors.


They are considered part of the “shadow banking” industry, a sector that forms an important source of finance in China…


About a dozen angry demonstrators were recorded chanting slogans and demanding payment related to investment products issued by the company, according to videos posted on social media app Douyin and WeChat…


One video posted on WeChat, which was later deleted, showed a man dressed in a red vest emblazoned with Zhongrong’s logo using a bullhorn to speak to the agitated group outside the company’s office.


“Let me explain. We can’t make any public announcement now,” he said. “The main reason is that we are still actively checking our underlying assets, and we are trying our best to recover the assets for you. Now if we disclose the underlying assets for a certain product, it might cause a dramatic shrinking of the assets. We can’t do this because this is being irresponsible.”


This even spurred a rare public protests in Beijing, though as you can see in this clip there were twice as many police as protesters demanding their money.




Any time people are protesting in China, you know the situation is very bad. In a police state any form of protest is liable to result in a visit from the police reminding you that public disruptions are grounds for arrest. And that’s exactly what happened this week.


Investors who put money into troubled financial giant Zhongzhi said security police had visited them at their homes this week, urging them to avoid public protests, Bloomberg reported. Investors who received the visits come from a wide area of China, including from Beijing…


For years, there have been protests by investors who have lost money in failed companies which are quickly shut down by police…


“There could be outbursts of discontent and street protests, but those would not be sufficient to present a lethal threat to the regime. Still, it looks like a slow but relentless (economic) deterioration,” Willy Lam, a senior fellow at The Jamestown Foundation, told AFR Weekend.


“If you use the metaphor of a cancer spreading. China is still a 10-foot tall giant, but the cancer cells are spreading. It will be a very messy situation.”


Xi Jinping’s stormtroopers can keep people off the street but he can’t control the anger that will build if this economic cancer continues to spread.


Update: This isn’t directly related but there is one part of China’s economy that is always profitable: The outright theft of material from foreign companies who are far ahead of Chinese competitors.


The National Counterintelligence and Security Center, the F.B.I. and the Air Force issued a new advisory to American companies Friday morning. The broad warning to industry said that foreign intelligence services could be targeting space firms, their employees and the contractors that serve those companies.


Space companies’ data and intellectual property could be at risk from attempts to break into computer networks, moles placed inside companies and foreign infiltration of the supply chain, officials said.


“Foreign intelligence entities recognize the importance of the commercial space industry to the U.S. economy and national security, including the growing dependence of critical infrastructure on space-based assets,” the Counterintelligence Center warning said. “They see U.S. space-related innovation and assets as potential threats as well as valuable opportunities to acquire vital technologies and expertise.”


In short, China would love to steal everything it can from Space X, Blue Origin and half a dozen other commercial spaceflight companies. How long can it possible be before China announces a reusable rocket that looks nearly identical to Space X’s Falcon 9?

More:

https://www.wsj.com/finance/investing/investors-fear-chinas-lehman-moment-is-looming-4364855d?st=2rg2h6lzspk8qyd&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink


Investors Fear China’s ‘Lehman Moment’ Is Looming
Troubles at a big trust company are making investors worry about financial contagion from property developers’ distress
By Rebecca Feng and Weilun Soon


Aug. 18, 2023 5:43 am ET

...

[Gunny]

China’s heavily indebted property giant Evergrande Group on Thursday filed for Chapter 15 bankruptcy protection in a U.S. court…

US court :rolleyes:

[fj1200]

US court :rolleyes:

Meh.


The developer has sought protection under Chapter 15 of the U.S. bankruptcy code, which shields non-U.S. companies that are undergoing restructurings from creditors that hope to sue them or tie up assets in the United States.
While the step is seen as procedural, it indicates that the company is nearing the end of its restructuring process after more than one and a half years of negotiations with creditors.
Evergrande said in a filing on Friday that it will ask the U.S. court for recognition of schemes of arrangement under the offshore debt restructuring for Hong Kong and the British Virgin Islands as its dollar notes are governed by New York law.
https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-evergrande-files-protection-us-court-part-32-bln-debt-overhaul-2023-08-18/

[Gunny]

Meh.


https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-evergrande-files-protection-us-court-part-32-bln-debt-overhaul-2023-08-18/

I get the "why". The price of doing business with the commies.

[Kathianne]

This is probably the most comprehensive article I've read on China's woes. What was supposed to be China's Century has turned out very differently. This is a gift URL, so it's abbreviated from the original article, but you'll be able to get the gist I'm sure:

https://www.wsj.com/world/china/china-economy-debt-slowdown-recession-622a3be4?st=c7jsyjkp8kdufz4&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

[Kathianne]

Interesting:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/02/china-military-rocket-force-xi-jinping/


ASIAChina’s military shake-up may hint at corruption — or Xi Jinping’s weakness
By Lily Kuo, Cate Cadell and Ellen Nakashima
August 2, 2023 at 4:37 a.m. EDT

An unexpected reshuffle at the top levels of China’s military this week marks what analysts say is the biggest purge in years, as President Xi Jinping oversees a sweeping campaign to cement loyalty and assert more control over the People’s Liberation Army.


Are you on Telegram? Subscribe to our channel for the latest updates on Russia’s war in Ukraine.
During a ceremony in Beijing on Monday, Xi appointed new heads of the PLA Rocket Force, which controls the country’s nuclear arsenal and conventional missiles, including the intercontinental ballistic missiles that can reach the continental United States.


The weapons are part of a rapidly expanding program that is critical for China’s long-term goal of taking over Taiwan and challenging the United States in the region.


Through the leadership reshuffle, Xi has ousted the missile force’s commander, a PLA Rocket Force veteran who has been missing from public view for months. It comes less than a week after the removal of Foreign Minister Qin Gang, a Xi loyalist who had also disappeared from public view. In both cases, no official explanation was given, but such disappearances are often signs of an investigation.


“When you add it all up, it’s probably one of the biggest purges” in the rocket force’s history, said Lyle Morris, a senior fellow at the Asia Society Policy Institute’s Center for China Analysis. “The changeover is very rare and very quick. And so that tells you something is going on. ”


The incidents could hint at potential cracks in Xi’s hold on power in his third term, presaging further uncertainty within the upper echelons of the Chinese system, analysts said.


“This has brought to the fore the fact that Xi has problems within both the diplomatic and military systems,” said Lin Ying-Yu, assistant professor of international affairs at Tamkang University in New Taipei City. “This shows that Xi may be encountering more difficulties when it comes to control internally.”

...

[Kathianne]

and chance of miscalculations:

https://www.voanews.com/a/experts-say-china-facing-economic-woes-may-become-more-aggressive/7220384.html

[Kathianne]

Happy Friday!

https://hotair.com/john-s-2/2023/08/25/chinas-economic-crisis-is-real-and-its-spectacular-n573763

[Black Diamond]

This can't be good for sp500

[AHZ]

and chance of miscalculations:

https://www.voanews.com/a/experts-say-china-facing-economic-woes-may-become-more-aggressive/7220384.html

so.

do you believe in it's in our best interest to make sure china's economy flourishes?

are they gonna murderize us if we don't?

[Gunny]

This is probably the most comprehensive article I've read on China's woes. What was supposed to be China's Century has turned out very differently. This is a gift URL, so it's abbreviated from the original article, but you'll be able to get the gist I'm sure:

https://www.wsj.com/world/china/china-economy-debt-slowdown-recession-622a3be4?st=c7jsyjkp8kdufz4&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

In a nutshell, following the US model :laugh:


officials say they have little choice but to keep borrowing and building to stimulate their economies.

[AHZ]

In a nutshell, following the US model :laugh:


will either of us pull out of the nosedive?

is this a game of chicken on Stupidville highway?