Being Skeptical Of Authority

[Kathianne]

Yep Rev, we do agree on some things, it's likely a matter of degree. I can be questioning, without thinking they are ALWAYS out to get me. However, sometimes you're right, they really ARE.

It's not just scientists, though that is what this is about-how easily they changed their own narratives.

Doesn't it remind one of the laptop and Hunter and FBI?

https://www.natesilver.net/p/journalists-should-be-skeptical-of


Journalists should be skeptical of all sources —including scientistsA group of prominent scientists spread misinformation about COVID's origins. Mainstream journalists missed the story.


NATE SILVER
JUL 21, 2023
I’m not usually one for scandals. My eyes glaze over at Congressional hearings. I’ve never read the Mueller Report. There are usually too many threads to unwind, and too many competing claims to evaluate. But I’m going to make an exception here, because we have a scandal where the facts are relatively simple and clear — but which was nevertheless extremely consequential.


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Here’s the scandal. In March 2020, a group of scientists — in particular1, Kristian G. Andersen the of The Scripps Research Institute, Andrew Rambaut of The University of Edinburgh, Edward C. Holmes of the University of Sydney, and Robert F. Garry of Tulane University — published a paper in Nature Medicine that seemingly contradicted their true beliefs about COVID’s origins and which they knew to be misleading. The paper, “The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2”, has been cited more than 5,900 times and was enormously influential in shaping the debate about the origins of COVID-19.




We know this because of a series of leaked and FOIAed emails and Slack messages that have been reported on by Public, Racket News, The Intercept and The Nation along with other small, independent media outlets. You can find a detailed summary of the claims and a copy of the emails and messages here at Public. There’s also good context around the messages here (very detailed) or here and here (more high-level).


The messages show that the authors were highly uncertain about COVID’s origins — and if anything, they leaned more toward a lab leak than a spillover from an animal source. But none of that was expressed in the “Proximal Origin” paper, which instead said that “we do not believe that any type of laboratory-based scenario is plausible”. Granted, there is a little bit of ass-covering — “More scientific data could swing the balance of evidence to favor one hypothesis over another,” they also wrote in the paper. But the message — natural origin good, lab leak bad — was received clearly enough by mainstream news outlets. “No, the new coronavirus wasn't created in a lab, scientists say”, reported the CBC in covering the paper. “COVID-19 coronavirus epidemic has a natural origin” was the headline at Science Daily.


In the Slack and email messages, the authors worked to manipulate the media narrative about COVID-19’s origins and to ensure that their private uncertainty wasn’t conveyed in conversations with reporters. They also thought they were going to get away with it. “The truth is never going to come out ”, wrote Rambaut in one message. This went beyond mere motivated reasoning. There was an enormous gap between what the authors believed privately and what they stated publicly, including in the “Proximal Origin” paper — again, see the above links for more detail.




What were the authors’ motivations to mislead the public? I think that’s also pretty straightforward. In fact, you can find prominent virologists quoted on record as to why the lab leak theory was so problematic — even if it wasn’t necessarily wrong. The problems fall into three buckets:


Evidence of a lab leak could cause a political backlash — understandably, given that COVID has killed almost 7 million people — resulting in a reduction in funding for gain-of-function research and other virological research. That’s potentially important to the authors or the authors’ bosses — and the authors were very aware of the career implications for how the story would play out;


Evidence of a lab leak could upset China and undermine research collaborations;


Evidence of a lab leak could provide validation to Trump and Republicans who touted the theory — remember, all of this was taking place during an election year, and medical, epidemiological and public health experts had few reservations about weighing in on political matters.


To be clear, I’m not sure how COVID originated either. I’d “buy” the lab leak at a 50 percent likelihood (I think this is pretty convincing) and sell it at 80 percent, which still leaves a lot of wiggle room for me to be persuaded one way or the other.


But I think this is a big scandal either way. As someone who has spent a lot of time trying to convey statistical and epistemic uncertainty to the public, I’m deeply disappointed by the scientists’ conduct here and how unmoored they were from any attempt at truth-seeking.


The COVID origins story has also been a journalistic fiasco, with the lab leak having been dismissed as a “conspiracy theory” and as misinformation even though many prominent scientists believed it to be plausible all along. Perhaps it’s tempting to give the media a pass — they were manipulated by the “Proximal Origin” authors, after all. But I’m not inclined to, for two reasons.


First, the coverage of the recently leaked emails and Slack messages at major center-left outlets like The New York Times has been pathetic. The Times portrayed Andersen as the victim of a Republican witch-hunt — rather than someone at the center of a major scientific scandal of his own making.


And second, journalists ought to have decent bullshit detectors — including toward scientists, academics and other experts.2


Maybe you think Andersen et. al. are bad apples, but the messages make clear that they were speaking for a pretty broad swath of the scientific community. Still — and maybe this is wishful thinking — but I’m going to assert that people like him are in the minority among scientists. I fairly often speak with scientists and academics myself — especially when I’m working on a research-driven book project, as I am now — and those experiences are overwhelmingly positive.3


And yet, even if the incidence of bad apples is relatively rare among scientists and academics — rarer than it might be among politicians or other groups that journalists intrinsically treat with more skepticism — it’s clearly not exceedingly rare. It was just this week that the president of Stanford was forced to resign in a research scandal. (Perhaps not coincidently, the scandal was broken by the student newspaper, The Stanford Daily, and not by a major center-left outlet like The Times.)


I also think journalists are more prone toward being manipulated by bad apples in academia and science than they were ten or twenty years ago. As a result of increasing educational polarization, both journalists and the expert class of scientists and academics are far more aligned politically than they once were (the very large majority are left-of-center and vote Democratic in American elections). Even if “trust the science” or “trust the experts” is usually right — and I think it usually is right! — it leaves an opening for bad apples like Andersen to exploit the trust that honest scientists have worked so hard to earn.


There’s also a generational divide in journalism, with younger journalists tending to be more openly left/progressive than their older peers — and tending to be more Manichean in dividing the world between good and evil rather than proceeding from the notion that people and news stories are complicated and it’s not particularly their job to pass moral judgment. It’s slightly amusing that The Times fired their Pulitzer Prize-winning coronavirus reporter in middle of the pandemic — a reporter who saw the lab leak theory as credible — and replaced him with another reporter who dismissed discussion of the lab leak as “racist”.


But this really isn’t complicated. All I’m suggesting is that journalists ought to treat scientists like they do any other source — that is to say, with an appropriate dose of skepticism.

[Gunny]

Yep Rev, we do agree on some things, it's likely a matter of degree. I can be questioning, without thinking they are ALWAYS out to get me. However, sometimes you're right, they really ARE.

It's not just scientists, though that is what this is about-how easily they changed their own narratives.

Doesn't it remind one of the laptop and Hunter and FBI?

https://www.natesilver.net/p/journalists-should-be-skeptical-ofAt no point did I believe COVID originated from a "wet bat". Even considering that idea as an outside possibility hit the ridiculous button.

The government and media tried to cover their own asses and roped in anyone with an alphabet behind their names and sounded official to vouch for their BS. Just imagine should something be amiss with that government research funding up for renewal in a bit :rolleyes:

There is zero explanation for ginning up a bio weapon except to gin up a bio weapon. Good thing Biden cut funding for Wuhan in a timely manner last month :smoke:

[Kathianne]

At no point did I believe COVID originated from a "wet bat". Even considering that idea as an outside possibility hit the ridiculous button.

The government and media tried to cover their own asses and roped in anyone with an alphabet behind their names and sounded official to vouch for their BS. Just imagine should something be amiss with that government research funding up for renewal in a bit :rolleyes:

There is zero explanation for ginning up a bio weapon except to gin up a bio weapon. Good thing Biden cut funding for Wuhan in a timely manner last month :smoke:

I didn't buy that either, my skepticism was directed at how to deal with what was given. I still think China should deal with reprisals, which seems too much to hope for.

[Gunny]

I didn't buy that either, my skepticism was directed at how to deal with what was given. I still think China should deal with reprisals, which seems too much to hope for.Any price paid would be too little. Diplomacy dictates everyone pretend China didn't do it or Pooh will have another hissy fit.

The gross mismanagement and government-driven hysteria in this country should be accounted for as well. Regardless the vax debate, and even without it, the government lied to the People about the virus itself.

[SassyLady]

https://kickthemallout.com/article.php/Scientist_Given_Millions_In_NIH_Funding_to_LIE_for _Fauci

[revelarts]

Kath, you and Gunny probably realized it before I did. It took me some digging before I was convinced of the lab leak.
It was early but not right away.
And the evidence just kept piling up.
It's amazing how the infos BEEN out there but the Major news haven't shown it.

Are they embarrassed, or maybe out to protect other players?

Question.
if they aren't telling us the truth even now.
But they aren't "out to get us", what's the practical difference?
If the are lying to us with malice or for self preservation or whatever...we're still the victims of their INTENTIONAL lies & omissions.

[AHZ]

I didn't buy that either, my skepticism was directed at how to deal with what was given. I still think China should deal with reprisals, which seems too much to hope for.


of course it's not too much to hope for.

china wil be paid in full for their treachery, if we can't convince establishment dolts that it's not against free trade slogans to do so.

[AHZ]

Kath, you and Gunny probably realized it before I did. It took me some digging before I was convinced of the lab leak.
It was early but not right away.
And the evidence just kept piling up.
It's amazing how the infos BEEN out there but the Major news haven't shown it.

Are they embarrassed, or maybe out to protect other players?

Question.
if they aren't telling us the truth even now?
But they aren't "out to get us", what's the practical difference.
If the are lying to us with malice or for self preservation or whatever...we're still the victims of their INTENTIONAL lies & omissions.


and they still think tariffs on china are mean and anti - trade.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

https://kickthemallout.com/article.php/Scientist_Given_Millions_In_NIH_Funding_to_LIE_for _Fauci

Yes, what we all said, we all knew, is that it was a lab created virus.
But millions in this nation still believe the liar Fauci. Lets face it, we
do have millions in this nation that are stupid, gullible and easily brainwashed. Easily lead by government and mainstream media. -:saluting2:--Tyr

[AHZ]

Yes, what we all said, we all knew, is that it was a lab created virus.
But millions in this nation still believe the liar Fauci. Lets face it, we
do have millions in this nation that are stupid, gullible and easily brainwashed. Easily lead by government and mainstream media. -:saluting2:--Tyr


it's actually worse than all that.

it's not just ignorance and naivete, it's malice, ego and actual belief in the agenda of killing everybody for eugenics reasons.


Sometimes i think the nazis won wwII.

minds are so inverted and evil so prevalant that people actually virtue signal their eugenics desires, and feel smarter than everyone for being nihilists.


The ‘Conspiracy’ Against Michael Aquino – Satanic Pedophile



by Anthony Forwood[source: https://exposinginfragard.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-case-against-michael-aquino-satanic.html]

For those who don’t know, Michael Aquino was a Psychological Warfare Specialist in the US Army from 1968 until 1990, when he was involuntarily discharged as a result of investigations into his involvement in the ritual sexual abuse of children at the Presidio Day Care Center in San Francisco. Throughout this same time, he has also been a devout satanist [….] He joined Anton LaVey’s Church of Satan in 1969, staying until 1975 when he left to start his own Temple of Set, which has been in operation ever since.

Please note here that both psyops and satanism involve using many levels of deception and coercion to manipulate the perceptions of others for ulterior motives, so these are skills that Aquino is very familiar with and very comfortable in using. He is also an expert in propaganda and skilled in techniques for disseminating misinformation/disinformation, and using misdirection, confusion tactics, isolation techniques, and revisionism. Therefore, he will certainly use these skills to defend himself against the truth of his actions.

Michael Aquino explains that his name keeps coming up in pedophile-ring cases because he’s the victim of a conspiracy (a ‘black bag job’, as he calls it). He bases this on the fact that he’s a satanist and so people just automatically hate him because of it. Unfortunately for him, making such a bad choice in lifestyle and philosophy doesn’t excuse him from anything, although in his particular case it certainly does lend weight to the allegations against him and even invites them, so he shouldn’t really complain about it. He tends to keep his perceptions of all this bad publicity focused strictly on the Presidio child abuse case in which he was a central figure during the 1980s, since that’s the only one he’s ever had to legally defend himself against (so far). Even in this one isolated case, he only dares to focus on it as far as his own limited version of the facts go, and he totally avoids acknowledging the larger body of evidence that implicates him personally. Similarly, he totally overlooks the longer history of events he’s been implicated in by various sources who are far removed from one another and who couldn’t possibly be engaged in any sort of conspiracy against him.

Whatever the case, I’m not going to attempt to detail all of the evidence against Michael Aquino here, since there’s far too much of it for this short article. I merely want to put his claim of conspiracy into proper perspective, in order to show how absurd it really is.

Time after time, Michael Aquino has been pointed at as a ruthlessly evil defiler and abuser of the most innocent and defenseless among us – young children – and it was as early as 1980 that the putrid history of his involvement in pedophilia and mind control can be traced back to (at least in the public records), but it probably goes back much further. The following provides a short historical record of events that ties Aquino to a larger criminal syndicate operating through the US government, and reveals his position within it.

* * *
https://johndenugent.com/the-conspiracy-against-poor-michael-aquino-innocent-satanic-pedophile/

[fj1200]

Can I be skeptical of skeptics too?

[AHZ]

Can I be skeptical of skeptics too?

that's called being a totalitarian gatekeeper, and yes you may. do your best.

[Gunny]

Kath, you and Gunny probably realized it before I did. It took me some digging before I was convinced of the lab leak.
It was early but not right away.
And the evidence just kept piling up.
It's amazing how the infos BEEN out there but the Major news haven't shown it.

Are they embarrassed, or maybe out to protect other players?

Question.
if they aren't telling us the truth even now?
But they aren't "out to get us", what's the practical difference.
If the are lying to us with malice or for self preservation or whatever...we're still the victims of their INTENTIONAL lies & omissions.

They were denying it. Covid wasn't created in a lab in Wuhan. The PRC wasn't involved. Calling it the China flu was racist. The US wasn't involved. Some bat did it:rolleyes:

The MSM was following and repeating over and over again the party line.

I am educated on bio and chem weapons. I smelled the bullshit before it hit the coast. They tried to cover it up because there was no way they could explain away the truth.

[Kathianne]

They were denying it. Covid wasn't created in a lab in Wuhan. The PRC wasn't involved. Calling it the China flu was racist. The US wasn't involved. Some bat did it:rolleyes:

The MSM was following and repeating over and over again the party line.

I am educated on bio and chem weapons. I smelled the bullshit before it hit the coast. They tried to cover it up because there was no way they could explain away the truth.

I wasn't convinced then or now that it was an accidental release. Weapon test makes sense to me.

[Gunny]

I wasn't convinced then or now that it was an accidental release. Weapon test makes sense to me.I think it was intentional. It sure played Hell on having a Presidential race, didn't it?

I'll say again what I said then as well: I'd use my second-best crap and see how it works and keep the best in reserve in case I needed it for defense for releasing the first stuff.

[revelarts]

I think it was intentional. It sure played Hell on having a Presidential race, didn't it?

I'll say again what I said then as well: I'd use my second-best crap and see how it works and keep the best in reserve in case I needed it for defense for releasing the first stuff.

That's my opinion at this point as well.
I could not prove it, but like the anthrax attacks it stinks really bad.

[revelarts]

Can I be skeptical of skeptics too?

too?
or primarily? mostly? nearly exclusively? by default?

[fj1200]

too?
or primarily? mostly? nearly exclusively? by default?

Yes.
No. No. No. No.

Follow the evidence.

[Gunny]

That's my opinion at this point as well.
I could not prove it, but like the anthrax attacks it stinks really bad.


too?
or primarily? mostly? nearly exclusively? by default?


Yes.
No. No. No. No.

Follow the evidence.How convenient everyone wordsmiths themselves some plausible deniability:rolleyes:

China's lab is developing a contagion with no defense against it and our own damned government's got its finger in the pie. We know both of those things are fact.

Then there is the fact that there is no reason to create a bio weapon except as use as a bio weapon which is illegal, especially at the international level.

Since the US government had its damned fingers in the pie from the beginning, it KNEW what we were dealing with; yet, claimed ignorance to cover its own ass at the price of ours'. How many dead bodies equals evidence that these smarter than the average bear morons let one of their killers out of the can?

When all roads lead to Rome, one doesn't end up in Athens:rolleyes:

[fj1200]

How convenient everyone wordsmiths themselves some plausible deniability:rolleyes:

China's lab is developing a contagion with no defense against it and our own damned government's got its finger in the pie. We know both of those things are fact.

Then there is the fact that there is no reason to create a bio weapon except as use as a bio weapon which is illegal, especially at the international level.

Since the US government had its damned fingers in the pie from the beginning, it KNEW what we were dealing with; yet, claimed ignorance to cover its own ass at the price of ours'. How many dead bodies equals evidence that these smarter than the average bear morons let one of their killers out of the can?

When all roads lead to Rome, one doesn't end up in Athens:rolleyes:

You quoted me but I haven't really weighed in on the lab leak issue. I posted a video that discussed the question; Bhattacharya gave a little background where and how it was happening until Obama shut it (US funding) down. It got started up again under trump but I wasn't clear if it was Fauci doing an end-around trump to get it going again or if trump signed off (I don't think he did). He talked about the supposed valid reasons for doing gain-of-function research but also the huge dangers involved which I think is why BO shut it down. Do I think it was intentional? Not really, why be intentional and let it out in your own backyard? Nevertheless it should be investigated and understood what happened, why, etc.

[Kathianne]

How convenient everyone wordsmiths themselves some plausible deniability:rolleyes:

China's lab is developing a contagion with no defense against it and our own damned government's got its finger in the pie. We know both of those things are fact.

Then there is the fact that there is no reason to create a bio weapon except as use as a bio weapon which is illegal, especially at the international level.

Since the US government had its damned fingers in the pie from the beginning, it KNEW what we were dealing with; yet, claimed ignorance to cover its own ass at the price of ours'. How many dead bodies equals evidence that these smarter than the average bear morons let one of their killers out of the can?

When all roads lead to Rome, one doesn't end up in Athens:rolleyes:

You're so cynical! Why? Oooops!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12357073/Unassuming-warehouse-California-turns-illegal-Chinese-run-virus-laboratory-genetically-engineering-mice-experimenting-HIV-herpes-malaria.html


Unassuming warehouse in California turns out to be illegal Chinese-run virus laboratory that was genetically engineering mice and experimenting with HIV, herpes and malariaThe warehouse was filled with thousands of vials of diseases, blood, and tissues
Officials also uncovered about 1,000 dead and dying lab mice used in testing
By CASSIDY MORRISON SENIOR HEALTH REPORTER FOR DAILYMAIL.COM


UPDATED: 13:12 EDT, 1 August 2023




A central California city is reeling after a nondescript warehouse turned out to be an illegal lab with deadly pathogens, including coronavirus, HIV, and malaria.


If it were not for an errant hose sticking out of the back of the warehouse last spring, city officials would not have known that a shady biotech company with links to China had set up shop there, filling it with industrial freezers, hundreds of vials of viruses, and about 1,000 dead and dying lab mice.


Government investigators also found Covid diagnostic and pregnancy tests at the underground testing facility that they believed were being developed there, in addition to at least 20 stored infectious agents, including coronavirus, HIV, hepatitis, and herpes.


The lab was run under a company called Prestige Biotech unlicensed for business in California, whose president Xiuquin Yao said was a successor to the now-defunct company Universal Meditech Inc. However, officials dispatched to addresses linked to the companies turned up at empty office buildings or addresses in China that could not be verified.


The months-long investigation resulted in early July in the proper disposal of all dangerous chemicals and substances, labeled and unlabeled, and while officials there note that a probe into the origins of the lab is ongoing, they claim people in the surrounding area are safe.


The nondescript warehouse was identified by a code enforcement officer who happened to be passing by when they saw a garden hose located where it should not have been


The nondescript warehouse was identified by a code enforcement officer who happened to be passing by when they saw a garden hose located where it should not have been


A search warrant issued less than three weeks later revealed hundreds of vials of improperly labeled chemicals and biohazards, including what ended up being stored coronaviruses, herpes viruses, hepatitis, and malaria, in addition to about 1,000 dead or dying lab mice


A search warrant issued less than three weeks later revealed hundreds of vials of improperly labeled chemicals and biohazards, including what ended up being stored coronaviruses, herpes viruses, hepatitis, and malaria, in addition to about 1,000 dead or dying lab mice


While officials say the immediate danger has been resolved and power has been cut to the building, there will be lingering concerns about possible contamination in the area from improper waste disposal and leakage of dangerous bacteria and viruses that could pose health dangers to Reedley residents.


The black-market type lab operating in the sleepy town of Reedley, California, was brought to official attention in early March when a code enforcement officer driving down the street noticed a garden hose sticking out of a building where it should not have been.


This lucky catch thrust into motion a combined state, local, and federal probe, one that Reedley City Manager Nicole Zieba had never seen before.


Ms Zieba said: ‘This is an unusual situation. I've been in government for 25 years. I've never seen anything like this.’


A warrant issued soon after the official happened across the code violation allowed those in the government to search the nondescript building, where they were shocked at what they found.


In one room were about 1,000 inhumanely stored white lab mice, roughly 200 of which were already dead. According to Assistant Director of the Fresno County Department of Public Health Joe Prado, the lab was conducting tests on the mice that would help develop Covid test kits found on site.


Mr Prado said: ‘They were utilizing laboratory mice to see whether or not the Covid test kits were actually testing for Covid. So that was the purpose for the laboratory mice on-site.’


Mr Prado did not add whether any of those Covid tests had been given or sold to the public.


They also found a wide array of vials containing biomaterials including blood and tissue, as well as many other unlabeled chemicals, some of which were found to contain the coronavirus, as well as bacterial and virus pathogens including HIV, chlamydia, E. Coli, streptococcus pneumonia, hepatitis B and C, herpes 1 and 5, rubella and malaria.


The black market lab was not licensed to operate there and while hazardous chemicals have been properly disposed of, officials have yet to reveal specifics about who was running the lab, who erected it, and what the purpose of it was


Mr Prado added: ‘Here at the public health department we operate our own lab so were very well versed in the legal requirements and how to maintain and control an infectious agent. And there was just a complete absence of those controls in place at the warehouse.’


Forty new labs for risky viruses being built post- pandemic


More than 40 facilities certified as biosafety level 3 (BSL-3) or BSL-4 have either been built or have gone into construction since 2020, predominantly across Asia.


In addition to finding nearly a thousand lab mice either dead or in distress, court documents revealed that investigators also found refrigerators and freezers with blood and containers labeled as ‘serum or plasma.’


The officials were tasked with determining the provenance of the mysterious lab, which was found to be run by Prestige BioTech registered in Las Vegas.


City officials identified Xiuquin Yao as the company’s president, who said Prestige BioTech shifted operations to the Reedley warehouse that was previously run by a now-defunct company called Universal Meditech Inc. Prestige was identified as UMI’s successor, according to court documents.


But when officials were tasked with searching locations tied to either company, they turned up at abandoned offices or found linked addresses back in China that they could not verify.


City officials maintain that those operating under the name Prestige BioTech have not been forthcoming with information, though the investigation is ongoing and may turn up more answers down the line.


Ms Zieba said: ‘There are no more biologicals. There are no more mice, but they still will see us abating 30 freezers and fridges, medical equipment, and all sorts of furniture in there. They’ll still see some activity nothing hazardous at this point.


‘Some of our federal partners still have active investigations going I can only speak to the building side of it.’

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/officials-believe-fresno-warehouse-was-site-illegal-laboratory-rcna96756

[Gunny]

You're so cynical! Why? Oooops!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12357073/Unassuming-warehouse-California-turns-illegal-Chinese-run-virus-laboratory-genetically-engineering-mice-experimenting-HIV-herpes-malaria.html



https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/officials-believe-fresno-warehouse-was-site-illegal-laboratory-rcna96756

officials identified Xiuquin Yao as the company’s president,

Let me guess, that guy's European:rolleyes: How convenient that unverifiable address in China.

I stand by my longstanding statement that some people don't deserve to live.

[Kathianne]

Let me guess, that guy's European:rolleyes: How convenient that unverifiable address in China.

I stand by my longstanding statement that some people don't deserve to live.

I heard somewhere, but cannot find a link, that Newsome had the state giving a tax break or research money to the firm. Unreal.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

You're so cynical! Why? Oooops!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12357073/Unassuming-warehouse-California-turns-illegal-Chinese-run-virus-laboratory-genetically-engineering-mice-experimenting-HIV-herpes-malaria.html



https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/officials-believe-fresno-warehouse-was-site-illegal-laboratory-rcna96756

OH YES, where are China's other illegal labs hidden in the USA. Are we supposed to believe they only had this one???-:salute:--Tyr

[Gunny]

I heard somewhere, but cannot find a link, that Newsome had the state giving a tax break or research money to the firm. Unreal.Doesn't surprise me a bit. He's got to take someone's money to pay his bills and he's running out of taxpayers.

[AHZ]

You quoted me but I haven't really weighed in on the lab leak issue. I posted a video that discussed the question; Bhattacharya gave a little background where and how it was happening until Obama shut it (US funding) down. It got started up again under trump but I wasn't clear if it was Fauci doing an end-around trump to get it going again or if trump signed off (I don't think he did). He talked about the supposed valid reasons for doing gain-of-function research but also the huge dangers involved which I think is why BO shut it down. Do I think it was intentional? Not really, why be intentional and let it out in your own backyard? Nevertheless it should be investigated and understood what happened, why, etc.


we know what happened, americans and chicomms collaborated on making viruses more deadly.

your kneejerk defense of chicomms with spurious defense logic (why backyard) is noted.

see rand paul grilling fauci over eco-health alliance. Peter Daszic (sp?) is another noteworthy search term.

[fj1200]

we know what happened, americans and chicomms collaborated on making viruses more deadly.

your kneejerk defense of chicomms with spurious defense logic (why backyard) is noted.

see rand paul grilling fauci over eco-health alliance. Peter Daszic (sp?) is another noteworthy search term.

I haven't defended anyone. trump couldn't control his house. And you want him back. dum dum sauce.

[AHZ]

I haven't defended anyone. trump couldn't control his house. And you want him back. dum dum sauce.


you presented the fact that it was released in china as somehow absolving them of guilt.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I wasn't convinced then or now that it was an accidental release. Weapon test makes sense to me.

Yes, it was a weapons test. I just wonder if they are satisfied at the number of deaths it has caused thus far.
I myself think they are not. I have never bought the ""accidental leak theory"".
On purpose makes more sense when we consider the character and purpose of the culprits that did the deed., imho.
Sad thing is we are not likely to ever know-- for sure-- who did it and why.........--Tyr

[fj1200]

you presented the fact that it was released in china as somehow absolving them of guilt.

Not really. Obviously if it came from there then there is culpability in the research.

[AHZ]

Not really. Obviously if it came from there then there is culpability in the research.


but not in the release, the really criminal part.. i see.


why would they do that to themselves? deniability by incredulous question.

yes i see it now.

brilliant.

[SassyLady]

Yes.
No. No. No. No.

Follow the evidence.
You mean like the Russiagate evidence. Sometimes the evidence is planted to further a narrative. Some people refuse to believe there might be new evidence that isn't brought to them by the MSM or government agencies.

[fj1200]

You mean like the Russiagate evidence. Sometimes the evidence is planted to further a narrative. Some people refuse to believe there might be new evidence that isn't brought to them by the MSM or government agencies.

:confused: In all things, follow the evidence... and verify the evidence.

[SassyLady]

:confused: In all things, follow the evidence... and verify the evidence.
I think there's a ton of evidence that's been verified but not released.

Look how long the DOJ sat on Biden evidence. It happens fj. Just because you have not personally seen it does not mean it doesn't exist.

I'm sure you haven't seen God either.

[AHZ]

I think there's a ton of evidence that's been verified but not released.

Look how long the DOJ sat on Biden evidence. It happens fj. Just because you have not personally seen it does not mean it doesn't exist.

I'm sure you haven't seen God either.


he only puts blind faith in big pharma.

:dance:

[fj1200]

I think there's a ton of evidence that's been verified but not released.

Look how long the DOJ sat on Biden evidence. It happens fj. Just because you have not personally seen it does not mean it doesn't exist.

I'm sure you haven't seen God either.

Exactly where does follow the evidence and verify the evidence disagree with that?

[fj1200]

he only puts blind faith in big pharma.

:dance:

As discussed you shouldn't try to summarize what people think. You aren't good at it.

[AHZ]

Exactly where does follow the evidence and verify the evidence disagree with that?


so you're basically an evidence demanding bot with no core consciousness? is this true?

[AHZ]

As discussed you shouldn't try to summarize what people think. You aren't good at it.


I'm excellent at it.

my conciseness is what galls you the most.

[Gunny]

As discussed you shouldn't try to summarize what people think. You aren't good at it.He was sitting on the board like a vulture waiting on someone to post :rolleyes:

[fj1200]

I'm excellent at it.

my conciseness is what galls you the most.

The evidence presented and the evidence verified indicates that you are not.