Dems Want $1 TRILLION Dolar Tax Increase

[red states rule]

This is what Randel calls "the mother of all tax reform"

I call it the total destruction of the US economy


The trillion dollar tax fight

By: Lisa Lerer
Oct 9, 2007 06:05 AM EST

By now, everyone knows Rep. Charles B. Rangel is poised to introduce the “mother” of all tax reforms, the biggest and most expensive tax code overhaul since 1986. But what they don’t know is how the New York Democrat plans to pay the more than $1 trillion price tag — and that uncertainty is fueling rampant speculation from Capitol Hill to K Street.

The classic Washington guessing game is frustrating anxious corporate lobbyists but amusing others, including the House Ways and Means Committee chairman who started it all. “It is surprising how nervous people get when I use the words ‘fairness’ and ‘equity’ to describe our efforts to simplify the tax code and encourage economic investment,” the New York Democrat told Politico.

for the complete article

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1007/6250.html

[gabosaurus]

We do need a tax increase. How do you think the government pays the bills? Not through Republican voodoo economics.
Our infrastructure has gone to hell. We need road repairs, structure repairs, social programs and other necessary items. Too bad you are too blind to see that.

[Monkeybone]

did he put his pinky on his lip when he presented it?

[April15]

Best thing we could do is quit lieing to ourselves about debt being good.

[actsnoblemartin]

How much you wanna raise taxes?. you cant just hand out government entitlements like candy, and spend more then you take in. Washington has more of a spending problem then an income problem.

So, shoot.. you might be right that we need to raise taxes. But if so how much.




We do need a tax increase. How do you think the government pays the bills? Not through Republican voodoo economics.
Our infrastructure has gone to hell. We need road repairs, structure repairs, social programs and other necessary items. Too bad you are too blind to see that.

[red states rule]

We do need a tax increase. How do you think the government pays the bills? Not through Republican voodoo economics.
Our infrastructure has gone to hell. We need road repairs, structure repairs, social programs and other necessary items. Too bad you are too blind to see that.

Why raise taxes when 1) revenues to the US Treasury are soaring, and 2) Congress can stop wasting our money on pork

from the WSJ this week

Americans coughed up a record $2.568 trillion in taxes to the IRS in 2007, or 6.7% more than in 2006. This means federal receipts have climbed by $785 billion since the 2003 investment tax cuts, the largest four-year revenue increase in U.S. history. Income, dividend and capital gains tax rates were all cut in 2003, but individual income tax receipts have soared by 46.3% in four years, with payments by the wealthy accounting for most of the windfall. Last year's increase in individual income payments was 11.3%, or more than double the rate of growth in nominal GDP. Don't worry, class warriors: Hannah Montana and others among the "new rich" are paying their taxes.

Overall federal revenue is now 18.8% of GDP, compared with the 18.2% average of the past 40 years.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1191...googlenews_wsj



There is no reason to raise taxes - Americans are paying to much to the government as it is

[Sitarro]

Best thing we could do is quit lieing to ourselves about debt being good.

Typical, let's steal some more money from the citizens and waste it buying votes, Democrat philosophy 101. Try using the enormous amount of money already taken from the top half of society more effectively......what a novel idea for Dems that want to do nothing but use other's money for simpleton ideas that will garner more votes from their simpleton constituency.

[red states rule]

Typical, let's steal some more money from the citizens and waste it buying votes, Democrat philosophy 101. Try using the enormous amount of money already taken from the top half of society more effectively......what a novel idea for Dems that want to do nothing but use other's money for simpleton ideas that will garner more votes from their simpleton constituency.

What the left refuses to accept is the "rich" are paying a HIGHER percentage in taxes AFTER the tax cuts

They still are the small minority paying a huge majority of the taxes. It is not uncommon for people to pay more then 50% of their income in taxes

[actsnoblemartin]

I dont think libs understand that taxes should make sense, not a means to punish people who work hard.



What the left refuses to accept is the "rich" are paying a HIGHER percentage in taxes AFTER the tax cuts

They still are the small minority paying a huge majority of the taxes. It is not uncommon for people to pay more then 50% of their income in taxes

[Joe Steel]

I dont think libs understand that taxes should make sense, not a means to punish people who work hard.

Utter nonsense.

Taxes are levied to generate revenue. The best way to do that is to levy them on taxpayers who have money. Taxpayers who don't have money can't pay taxes.

That should be simple enough for even a conservative to understand.

[red states rule]

Utter nonsense.

Taxes are levied to generate revenue. The best way to do that is to levy them on taxpayers who have money. Taxpayers who don't have money can't pay taxes.

That should be simple enough for even a conservative to understand.

Libs do use the tax code to punish achievement and reward the nonproducers

[Joe Steel]

Libs do use the tax code to punish achievement and reward the nonproducers

Absurd.

You're just spewing. Smarten-up.

[red states rule]

Absurd.

You're just spewing. Smarten-up.

The top 1% pay more in taxes then the bottom 90%

The top 1% pay about 36% of all Federal Income taxs

The bottom 50% pay less then 4% of all Federal Income taxes

Yet the left say it is not enough and they want them pay more

Libs do punish achievemnt and take away the incentive to take risk

[Joe Steel]

The top 1% pay more in taxes then the bottom 90%

The top 1% pay about 36% of all Federal Income taxs

The bottom 50% pay less then 4% of all Federal Income taxes

Yet the left say it is not enough and they want them pay more

Libs do punish achievemnt and take away the incentive to take risk


Nonsense. Lawful taxation is not punishment. In fact, the wealth pay far less than their fair share. If anything, they're being coddled not punished.

[PostmodernProphet]

Nonsense. Lawful taxation is not punishment. In fact, the wealth pay far less than their fair share. If anything, they're being coddled not punished.

thank goodness we finally have someone who knows.....I know the issue has always troubled me......please, tell me quickly.....just how much is the rich's fair share.....

wait, before you answer.....are we talking really filthy rich?....or just the sort of dirty rich....maybe the "you got a smudge of something there on your cheek" rich........

[Joe Steel]

thank goodness we finally have someone who knows.....I know the issue has always troubled me......please, tell me quickly.....just how much is the rich's fair share.....

wait, before you answer.....are we talking really filthy rich?....or just the sort of dirty rich....maybe the "you got a smudge of something there on your cheek" rich........

A fair share is as much as we think is right.

[PostmodernProphet]

yes I know, but why do you keep it a secret.....if you would just come out and tell us we wouldn't have to dance around it......is it 98%......85%.......72%......

[red states rule]

A fair share is as much as we think is right.

The rich are currently paying 36% of all Federal Income Taxes - how much more do you want them to pay?

BTW, they are paying a higher MORE in taxes after the tax cuts then they were before the tax cut

[Sitarro]

Nonsense. Lawful taxation is not punishment. In fact, the wealth pay far less than their fair share. If anything, they're being coddled not punished.

Fare share???? What does that mean? My brother, an airline Captain and partner in a second business is married to a teacher in a public school. Three grown kids. They paid 129.000 dollars in taxes 2 years ago. He breaths the same air that I do, why did he pay so much in taxes?

He was taxed so high on the money he was making with his second business that he decided it wasn't worth the effort and finances he was putting into it. Four people besides himself lost their income when he shut down the business, the four were making in excess of 50,000 a year and paying taxes. He now spends his extra time playing golf or woodworking for his home....... that is what you do to people that are naturally motivated to use their time productively and in turn employ others..... you tax them out of business..... dumb ass!

It's kind of what you clowns did to restaraunts when you did away with the tax write-off business lunches. You put restaurants out of business. The chefs, waiters, bussboys, greeters....... all lost their jobs. You bitch about companies leaving the U.S. to get work done overseas...... nlame yourselves, the Democrat idiots that only know how to steal from productive people to buy votes from the losers of society. You dimwhits know nothing about business.

[red states rule]

Remember the failed luxury tax? It was also called the "yacht tax". It was a 10% tax on high priced items

What happened when it was inacted?

The "rich" stopped buying yachts and the yacht building companies closed up.

Thus putting working craftsmen on the unemployment line


http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/budget/budget_1-1.html

[Joe Steel]

yes I know, but why do you keep it a secret.....if you would just come out and tell us we wouldn't have to dance around it......is it 98%......85%.......72%......

It's not a matter of arithmetic. It's a matter of public agreement. After we've had a fair and honest debate, it's what agree is equitable.

During WWII, the highest marginal rate was 94% for awhile. Now it's 39%. Presumably each was considered fair.

[Joe Steel]

Fare share???? What does that mean? My brother, an airline Captain and partner in a second business is married to a teacher in a public school. Three grown kids. They paid 129.000 dollars in taxes 2 years ago. He breaths the same air that I do, why did he pay so much in taxes?

He was taxed so high on the money he was making with his second business that he decided it wasn't worth the effort and finances he was putting into it. Four people besides himself lost their income when he shut down the business, the four were making in excess of 50,000 a year and paying taxes. He now spends his extra time playing golf or woodworking for his home....... that is what you do to people that are naturally motivated to use their time productively and in turn employ others..... you tax them out of business..... dumb ass!

It's kind of what you clowns did to restaraunts when you did away with the tax write-off business lunches. You put restaurants out of business. The chefs, waiters, bussboys, greeters....... all lost their jobs. You bitch about companies leaving the U.S. to get work done overseas...... nlame yourselves, the Democrat idiots that only know how to steal from productive people to buy votes from the losers of society. You dimwhits know nothing about business.

I can't be concerned with your family's emotional instability. Your brother is just a parasite if he doesn't want to pay his fair share. He should leave the country.

[Kathianne]

A fair share is as much as we think is right.

Who's 'we'?

[Joe Steel]

Who's 'we'?

The People.

[BoogyMan]

We do need a tax increase. How do you think the government pays the bills? Not through Republican voodoo economics.
Our infrastructure has gone to hell. We need road repairs, structure repairs, social programs and other necessary items. Too bad you are too blind to see that.

Road and structure repairs are NOT the function of the federal government. Money is given to the states who DO NOT spend it as requested. Step outside of your blithering partisan hackery for just a moment into the light of truth and you will see that a tax increase of that magnitude will, once again, push the economy of this country out of the growth mode it is currently in and drown it.

[Kathianne]

The People.

So where are all 'the people' that want the top rate above 39%?

[BoogyMan]

A fair share is as much as we think is right.

Who is WE JS? Please continue to spout this Robin Hood garbage, it will ensure a conservative president will hold office.

[PostmodernProphet]

It's not a matter of arithmetic. It's a matter of public agreement. After we've had a fair and honest debate, it's what agree is equitable.

During WWII, the highest marginal rate was 94% for awhile. Now it's 39%. Presumably each was considered fair.

I am puzzled why you are afraid to state your opinion.....are you afraid that if you say 99% we might hold you to it later when you want more?

[Joe Steel]

So where are all 'the people' that want the top rate above 39%?

What's your point?

Do you think the American People wouldn't support a tax increase?

[Joe Steel]

Who is WE JS? Please continue to spout this Robin Hood garbage, it will ensure a conservative president will hold office.

Try reading the thread before you spew.

Tax policy, ultimately, is a matter of public debate. The American People decide the taxes they thing are fair and just.

[Kathianne]

What's your point?

Do you think the American People wouldn't support a tax increase?

Yes, I do NOT think they would support a tax increase for the sake of hitting the wealthy. Your point seems to be that they should 'give' until you say, 'enough'.

[Joe Steel]

I am puzzled why you are afraid to state your opinion.....are you afraid that if you say 99% we might hold you to it later when you want more?

Yes. It's the straw man fallacy

[BoogyMan]

Try reading the thread before you spew.

Tax policy, ultimately, is a matter of public debate. The American People decide the taxes they thing are fair and just.

I have read the thread and punitive taxation is not a policy, punitive taxation is a Robin Hood mentality that should be squashed out before the winger class warriors cause even more widespread hatred in the country than is already prevalent.

What possible justification do you think is now or has EVER been in place for you to decide that I must pay out nearly half of my income?

[Joe Steel]

Yes, I do NOT think they would support a tax increase for the sake of hitting the wealthy. Your point seems to be that they should 'give' until you say, 'enough'.

I never said that. I said tax policy is a matter of public debate.

Americans support targeted tax increases (e.g. on tobacco) and many think income taxes are too low. I don't know if enough support an income tax increase to make it imminent but I think an honest and open debate would lead to some increase in marginal tax rates.

[Joe Steel]

I have read the thread and punitive taxation is not a policy, punitive taxation is a Robin Hood mentality that should be squashed out before the winger class warriors cause even more widespread hatred in the country than is already prevalent.

Define punitive.


What possible justification do you think is now or has EVER been in place for you to decide that I must pay out nearly half of my income?

Art. 1., Sec. 8 U. S. Constitution.

And I doubt you pay-out anywhere near half of your income in taxes.

[BoogyMan]

Define punitive.

Art. 1., Sec. 8 U. S. Constitution.

And I doubt you pay-out anywhere near half of your income in taxes.


A 39 to 40 % tax rate is nearly half and it is money I have earned, not you, not your liberally bent congressmen.

Article 1 Section 8 clearly lays out the power of taxation for the congress, not the people at large. Learn to read JS, it will serve you well when you grow up. Liberals harp about the constitution and yet so few of them have any idea what it actually says that they continually make fools of themselves as you have done here.

The wealth redistributing classist warrior mentality WILL fail you time and time again.

[Kathianne]

I never said that. I said tax policy is a matter of public debate.

Americans support targeted tax increases (e.g. on tobacco) and many think income taxes are too low. I don't know if enough support an income tax increase to make it imminent but I think an honest and open debate would lead to some increase in marginal tax rates.

Actually it's become the way of tax increases to 'hit' certain 'bad' things, though the state won't make them illegal. Good examples are tobacco, alcohol, and now bottled water. It's a way for the legislatures on top of user taxes, like phone service, electric service, water, etc., to tax what we can't see going 'out.' Reminds me alot of the witholding taxes.

Now there would be something for citizens to gather around for: Forcing the governments at both the Federal and State levels to require we write them a check on April 15th for what they say 'we owe' them.

[April15]

If the tax code could be changed back to the 1981 code I'd be much happier. RR sure screwed it up with the help of his congress.

[Sitarro]

I can't be concerned with your family's emotional instability. Your brother is just a parasite if he doesn't want to pay his fair share. He should leave the country.

Obviously my post, like everything else in the real world, just sailed right over your pointed little head......... dumbass........ Move to Red China, you'll love it.

[Hugh Lincoln]

A fair share is as much as we think is right.

Listen to the arrogance of this asshole.

"We."

"Joe Steel" obviously doesn't pay any taxes himself!

Are you a troll trying to make libs look bad?

"Joe Steel," like he's a WORKER? More like JOE STEAL! Ha!

Libs aren't workers. They're daddy's little rich pukes who never worked a day in their lives and don't know the value of a dollar.

[Joe Steel]

A 39 to 40 % tax rate is nearly half and it is money I have earned, not you, not your liberally bent congressmen.

Do you understand the "marginal tax rate" concept?


Article 1 Section 8 clearly lays out the power of taxation for the congress, not the people at large. Learn to read JS, it will serve you well when you grow up. Liberals harp about the constitution and yet so few of them have any idea what it actually says that they continually make fools of themselves as you have done here.

You've completely misunderstood the issue and haven't the slightest understanding of the Constitution. You should stay away from this medium until you have a grasp of the concept and an understanding of the government.

[Joe Steel]

Obviously my post, like everything else in the real world, just sailed right over your pointed little head......... dumbass........ Move to Red China, you'll love it.

You posting was not much more than ranting about your parasitic brother's disdain for paying his fair share. My response was appropriate.

[jimnyc]

You posting was not much more than ranting about your parasitic brother's disdain for paying his fair share. My response was appropriate.

Joe, I'm only going to suggest once that you cease from bringing family members into the conversation. He brought up his brother but not in a negative fashion towards you. Further provocation of this sort will get you an all expenses paid vacation.

[BoogyMan]

Do you understand the "marginal tax rate" concept?

Yes, I certainly do, but you obviously cannot see the concept outside of your classist warrior mentality. What is mine is NOT yours, and never will be.



You've completely misunderstood the issue and haven't the slightest understanding of the Constitution. You should stay away from this medium until you have a grasp of the concept and an understanding of the government.

I point out that you misapply how article 1 section 8 of the constitution is enacted and you make a broad claim that I have no understanding of the consitution? Have you read article 1 section 8? Did you make such effort after being given the assignment to come here and post this tripe? Nobody likes having their rhetorical butt handed to them JS, I would think you could handle it less like a playground dwelling child bully though.

I fully understand that you feel you have input to what tax rate I should pay simply because I am successful. Class warfare is rank and sad, as are its proponents.

[red states rule]

If the tax code could be changed back to the 1981 code I'd be much happier. RR sure screwed it up with the help of his congress.

and we all know what the economy was like under Pres Peanut. The top tax rate was 70%, double digit inflation, double digit interest rates, and near double digit unemployment, a prime interest rate of over 20%, a mortgage rate of 11% was a sweet deal, and shortages in gas and home heating oil

Are these the "good ol days" you want to take us back to?

[Joe Steel]

Joe, I'm only going to suggest once that you cease from bringing family members into the conversation. He brought up his brother but not in a negative fashion towards you. Further provocation of this sort will get you an all expenses paid vacation.

As you noted, the other posted introduced his family. I responded in a manner appropriate to this forum.

If he doesn't want to be burned, he shouldn't play with matches.

[Joe Steel]

Yes, I certainly do, but you obviously cannot see the concept outside of your classist warrior mentality. What is mine is NOT yours, and never will be.

I point out that you misapply how article 1 section 8 of the constitution is enacted and you make a broad claim that I have no understanding of the consitution? Have you read article 1 section 8? Did you make such effort after being given the assignment to come here and post this tripe? Nobody likes having their rhetorical butt handed to them JS, I would think you could handle it less like a playground dwelling child bully though.

Of course, you're wrong about the substance of the Constitution. The Constitution is a creature of the People. They decide what they want and elect the representatives who will do it.

If you don't want your rhetorical butt handed to you, don't post anything.