What are the risks and benefits of each vaccine?

[revelarts]

1 doctor's perspective

https://www.midwesterndoctor.com/p/what-are-the-risks-and-benefits-of


The Forgotten Side of Medicine
What are the risks and benefits of each vaccine?
The COVID-19 vaccines have provided a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to answer this question.

A MIDWESTERN DOCTOR
APR 5, 2023
A major problem I see throughout the scientific and political sphere is that people cannot maintain a perspective that allows them to see the whole picture; rather they tend to focus or fixate on things they have some type of emotional or subconscious priming to focus on (this has been an issue throughout history). This is why you can say have someone be around an individual they like and primarily registers the one good thing the individual did (while ignoring all the bad things) and conversely why they will ignore all the good things another individual they don’t like is trying so hard to do and focus on the one bad thing that individual did.

This human tendency ends up becoming a huge problem because the media will emotionally condition the public to focus on the one side on an issue which favors its corporate sponsors. This in turn leads to these people getting up in arms about that one point when individuals who dissent against the corporate narrative try to highlight the issues that greatly outweigh any purported benefit of the narrative.

This is particularly common with complex issues (which are difficult to understand to begin with) and one of my longstanding frustrations has been that despite the harms of vaccines greatly outweighing their benefits, many you bring this up to can only register the danger of the (often insignificant disease) the vaccine allegedly protects against. In my eyes, one of the upsides about COVID-19 is that this selective reframing of reality and the medias lies to maintain it went to such an extreme extent, much of the public became able to realize it was absurd and started taking the time to try and fully understand the subject.

One of the common questions I get from readers relates to another complex question—which vaccines are safe for their kids, and which ones are a bad idea? This is surprisingly difficult to answer because you must weigh the likelihood of an adverse event from a vaccination vs. the likelihood of suffering a complication from the disease that the vaccine would prevent you from getting and compute an figure that takes the weighted average of each into consideration.

In order make this determination, you need to consider all of the following:

Disease Risk
How likely is it for a person to get the disease?

Some diseases we vaccinate against are incredibly rare (e.g., tetanus).

How likely is the disease to cause a negligible, minor, moderate, severe, or fatal complication?

It is very important to distinguish between these categories because, for most infections, the risk of you catching it and then it becoming a severe condition is extremely low. For example, a Neisseria meningitidis infection (which can cause septic meningitis) is really bad and can progress very quickly, but also very rare for people to develop (one in ten people are asymptomatic carriers whereas approximately one in a million get it a year).

How likely is it that the severity of the disease can be improved with an existing medical treatment?

Most of the infections we vaccinate against are very easy to treat. Unfortunately, the focus is always on vaccinating against the disease rather than providing treatment for it (especially if the treatment is something more unorthodox than an antibiotic). In the case of COVID-19, while severe complications represent the minority of cases, they (and the more minor ones) can in most cases easily be prevented by early outpatient treatment. Unfortunately, the Federal government has refused to disclose to the public what the effective treatments are for it (presumably because it would make it impossible to continue making money off COVID-19).

How likely is it that you will have access to the necessary treatment before you get seriously ill?

Although I dislike the vaccine approach, I have to acknowledge that this is one of the strongest arguments for it. For rapidly progressing diseases, for those in isolated areas, for those unable to recognize their need to seek medical care, and for those of limited economic means, they often cannot get the necessary treatment for the disease before it is too late to prevent a severe complication.

In general, it’s very rare that a vaccine-preventable disease has both a significant likelihood that you will get it and a significant likelihood that it will develop into a severe condition. Many of those believed to fall into this category are no longer an issue in the United States (e.g., polio or smallpox), regardless of whether or not you are vaccinated, but people who look at this question are often fixated on the past presentations of the disease when it was more pathogenic or when we did not have a way to treat it.

Vaccine Efficacy
How likely is the vaccine to be effective in preventing the disease, and do the presence of vaccine antibodies correlate with a decreased risk of the disease?
.....
https://www.midwesterndoctor.com/p/what-are-the-risks-and-benefits-of

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

1 doctor's perspective

https://www.midwesterndoctor.com/p/what-are-the-risks-and-benefits-of


The Forgotten Side of Medicine
What are the risks and benefits of each vaccine?
The COVID-19 vaccines have provided a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to answer this question.

A MIDWESTERN DOCTOR
APR 5, 2023
A major problem I see throughout the scientific and political sphere is that people cannot maintain a perspective that allows them to see the whole picture; rather they tend to focus or fixate on things they have some type of emotional or subconscious priming to focus on (this has been an issue throughout history). This is why you can say have someone be around an individual they like and primarily registers the one good thing the individual did (while ignoring all the bad things) and conversely why they will ignore all the good things another individual they don’t like is trying so hard to do and focus on the one bad thing that individual did.

This human tendency ends up becoming a huge problem because the media will emotionally condition the public to focus on the one side on an issue which favors its corporate sponsors. This in turn leads to these people getting up in arms about that one point when individuals who dissent against the corporate narrative try to highlight the issues that greatly outweigh any purported benefit of the narrative.

This is particularly common with complex issues (which are difficult to understand to begin with) and one of my longstanding frustrations has been that despite the harms of vaccines greatly outweighing their benefits, many you bring this up to can only register the danger of the (often insignificant disease) the vaccine allegedly protects against. In my eyes, one of the upsides about COVID-19 is that this selective reframing of reality and the medias lies to maintain it went to such an extreme extent, much of the public became able to realize it was absurd and started taking the time to try and fully understand the subject.

One of the common questions I get from readers relates to another complex question—which vaccines are safe for their kids, and which ones are a bad idea? This is surprisingly difficult to answer because you must weigh the likelihood of an adverse event from a vaccination vs. the likelihood of suffering a complication from the disease that the vaccine would prevent you from getting and compute an figure that takes the weighted average of each into consideration.

In order make this determination, you need to consider all of the following:

Disease Risk
How likely is it for a person to get the disease?

Some diseases we vaccinate against are incredibly rare (e.g., tetanus).

How likely is the disease to cause a negligible, minor, moderate, severe, or fatal complication?

It is very important to distinguish between these categories because, for most infections, the risk of you catching it and then it becoming a severe condition is extremely low. For example, a Neisseria meningitidis infection (which can cause septic meningitis) is really bad and can progress very quickly, but also very rare for people to develop (one in ten people are asymptomatic carriers whereas approximately one in a million get it a year).

How likely is it that the severity of the disease can be improved with an existing medical treatment?

Most of the infections we vaccinate against are very easy to treat. Unfortunately, the focus is always on vaccinating against the disease rather than providing treatment for it (especially if the treatment is something more unorthodox than an antibiotic). In the case of COVID-19, while severe complications represent the minority of cases, they (and the more minor ones) can in most cases easily be prevented by early outpatient treatment. Unfortunately, the Federal government has refused to disclose to the public what the effective treatments are for it (presumably because it would make it impossible to continue making money off COVID-19).

How likely is it that you will have access to the necessary treatment before you get seriously ill?

Although I dislike the vaccine approach, I have to acknowledge that this is one of the strongest arguments for it. For rapidly progressing diseases, for those in isolated areas, for those unable to recognize their need to seek medical care, and for those of limited economic means, they often cannot get the necessary treatment for the disease before it is too late to prevent a severe complication.

In general, it’s very rare that a vaccine-preventable disease has both a significant likelihood that you will get it and a significant likelihood that it will develop into a severe condition. Many of those believed to fall into this category are no longer an issue in the United States (e.g., polio or smallpox), regardless of whether or not you are vaccinated, but people who look at this question are often fixated on the past presentations of the disease when it was more pathogenic or when we did not have a way to treat it.

Vaccine Efficacy
How likely is the vaccine to be effective in preventing the disease, and do the presence of vaccine antibodies correlate with a decreased risk of the disease?
.....
https://www.midwesterndoctor.com/p/what-are-the-risks-and-benefits-of

Want to play it safe--just say ffkk the vaccine...
but government has already found ways to punish that free choice.
But that makes government look to be dictatorial, eh?
Well guess what= that is because it is... :saluting2:.--Tyr

[AHZ]

Want to play it safe--just say ffkk the vaccine...
but government has already found ways to punish that free choice.
But that makes government look to be dictatorial, eh?
Well guess what= that is because it is... :saluting2:.--Tyr


as long as it still bails out the banks and takes the corporate side in matters it's ok with libertarians.

corporations are morally perfect cuz reasons.

[fj1200]

... libertarians.

Something else I can add to the list of things you don't understand.

[AHZ]

Something else I can add to the list of things you don't understand.
set us all straight then, cletus.

[Gunny]

1 doctor's perspective

https://www.midwesterndoctor.com/p/what-are-the-risks-and-benefits-of


The Forgotten Side of Medicine
What are the risks and benefits of each vaccine?
The COVID-19 vaccines have provided a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to answer this question.

A MIDWESTERN DOCTOR
APR 5, 2023
A major problem I see throughout the scientific and political sphere is that people cannot maintain a perspective that allows them to see the whole picture; rather they tend to focus or fixate on things they have some type of emotional or subconscious priming to focus on (this has been an issue throughout history). This is why you can say have someone be around an individual they like and primarily registers the one good thing the individual did (while ignoring all the bad things) and conversely why they will ignore all the good things another individual they don’t like is trying so hard to do and focus on the one bad thing that individual did.

This human tendency ends up becoming a huge problem because the media will emotionally condition the public to focus on the one side on an issue which favors its corporate sponsors. This in turn leads to these people getting up in arms about that one point when individuals who dissent against the corporate narrative try to highlight the issues that greatly outweigh any purported benefit of the narrative.

This is particularly common with complex issues (which are difficult to understand to begin with) and one of my longstanding frustrations has been that despite the harms of vaccines greatly outweighing their benefits, many you bring this up to can only register the danger of the (often insignificant disease) the vaccine allegedly protects against. In my eyes, one of the upsides about COVID-19 is that this selective reframing of reality and the medias lies to maintain it went to such an extreme extent, much of the public became able to realize it was absurd and started taking the time to try and fully understand the subject.

One of the common questions I get from readers relates to another complex question—which vaccines are safe for their kids, and which ones are a bad idea? This is surprisingly difficult to answer because you must weigh the likelihood of an adverse event from a vaccination vs. the likelihood of suffering a complication from the disease that the vaccine would prevent you from getting and compute an figure that takes the weighted average of each into consideration.

In order make this determination, you need to consider all of the following:

Disease Risk
How likely is it for a person to get the disease?

Some diseases we vaccinate against are incredibly rare (e.g., tetanus).

How likely is the disease to cause a negligible, minor, moderate, severe, or fatal complication?

It is very important to distinguish between these categories because, for most infections, the risk of you catching it and then it becoming a severe condition is extremely low. For example, a Neisseria meningitidis infection (which can cause septic meningitis) is really bad and can progress very quickly, but also very rare for people to develop (one in ten people are asymptomatic carriers whereas approximately one in a million get it a year).

How likely is it that the severity of the disease can be improved with an existing medical treatment?

Most of the infections we vaccinate against are very easy to treat. Unfortunately, the focus is always on vaccinating against the disease rather than providing treatment for it (especially if the treatment is something more unorthodox than an antibiotic). In the case of COVID-19, while severe complications represent the minority of cases, they (and the more minor ones) can in most cases easily be prevented by early outpatient treatment. Unfortunately, the Federal government has refused to disclose to the public what the effective treatments are for it (presumably because it would make it impossible to continue making money off COVID-19).

How likely is it that you will have access to the necessary treatment before you get seriously ill?

Although I dislike the vaccine approach, I have to acknowledge that this is one of the strongest arguments for it. For rapidly progressing diseases, for those in isolated areas, for those unable to recognize their need to seek medical care, and for those of limited economic means, they often cannot get the necessary treatment for the disease before it is too late to prevent a severe complication.

In general, it’s very rare that a vaccine-preventable disease has both a significant likelihood that you will get it and a significant likelihood that it will develop into a severe condition. Many of those believed to fall into this category are no longer an issue in the United States (e.g., polio or smallpox), regardless of whether or not you are vaccinated, but people who look at this question are often fixated on the past presentations of the disease when it was more pathogenic or when we did not have a way to treat it.

Vaccine Efficacy
How likely is the vaccine to be effective in preventing the disease, and do the presence of vaccine antibodies correlate with a decreased risk of the disease?
.....
https://www.midwesterndoctor.com/p/what-are-the-risks-and-benefits-ofSound reasoning. Don't agree with some of his conclusions. Especially downplaying the deaths attributable to COVID. I have stated from the beginning of the COVID pandemic that individuals need to choose whether or not they want to get vaccinated based on individual circumstance.

As the author touches upon, most preferred to react emotionally. That leads to distorted views and decisions.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Sound reasoning. Don't agree with some of his conclusions. Especially downplaying the deaths attributable to COVID. I have stated from the beginning of the COVID pandemic that individuals need to choose whether or not they want to get vaccinated based on individual circumstance.

As the author touches upon, most preferred to react emotionally. That leads to distorted views and decisions.
Well a lot of people get emotional when they see government pointing guns at them to force its edicts.
Fed has loads of power if it disallows certain Constitutional rights we have. While it applies new made rules to give it dictatorial authority.
Right now most the dem/lib government types are a bit nazi-light.. Just give them a few more months and watch their fangs suddenly grow..-Tyr

[fj1200]

set us all straight then, cletus.

"All" don't need to be set straight. You need to do some reading.

[AHZ]

"All" don't need to be set straight. You need to do some reading.


from all your extensive reading, explain why it's smart to send all the jobs away.

you can't.

all your beliefs are a pile of bullshit. you're a fucking idiot.

[fj1200]

from all your extensive reading, explain why it's smart to send all the jobs away.

you can't.

all your beliefs are a pile of bullshit. you're a fucking idiot.

Asked an answered in other threads where that might have tangentially been related to the particular topic. This thread is about the covid vaccine.

[Kathianne]

from all your extensive reading, explain why it's smart to send all the jobs away.

you can't.

all your beliefs are a pile of bullshit. you're a fucking idiot.

This is how you get thread banned

[SassyLady]

This is how you get thread banned
:clap:

[revelarts]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GP4201zWcAAOx65?format=jpg&name=small

FYI

[Gunny]

:deadhorse:

[fj1200]

4.2. ConclusionsAdult vaccinations prevent substantial morbidity, disability and death among adults and have cost-effectiveness profiles that are considered favorable across multiple age- and medical-indication-based recommendations. Efforts to increase the implementation of adult vaccination recommendations, including communication of the economic value of adult vaccines to providers and patients and addressing barriers to implementation, are needed.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6545890/


Results: Current adult vaccination coverage (vs. no vaccination) is estimated to result in nearly 65 million averted disease cases, $185 billion averted costs of cases, and $136 billion in incremental vaccination costs over a 30-year period from a societal perspective (BCR = 1.4). Increased vaccination coverage (vs. current coverage) is associated with over 33 million additional averted disease cases, $96 billion additional averted costs of cases, and nearly $83 billion in incremental vaccination costs, resulting in a societal BCR of 1.2 over 30 years. Deterministic sensitivity analyses demonstrated that results were most sensitive to disease incidence, vaccine efficacy, and productivity costs for time required for vaccination.
Conclusions: Study results highlight the economic value of vaccination programs for older adults in the US and indicate that efforts to further increase vaccination coverage may be warranted and economically justifiable.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34334253/


Economic, equity, and global health benefits of vaccinesVaccines can have several economic benefits.3 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7482790/#cit0003),10 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7482790/#cit0010) One of the most discernible benefits is averted medical expenditure. By preventing an episode of the disease through a vaccine, the economic costs of treatment, such as physician fees, drugs and hospitalization expenses, and associated travel costs and wage loss of caregivers could be averted. This is particularly important for low and middle-income countries (LMICs) where a large part of medical expenditure is out-of-pocket. A clear example is the situation in India, where 65% of health expenditure is private, with extreme costs in some cases, which thrusts 51 million people into poverty every year.2 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7482790/#cit0002),11 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7482790/#cit0011),12 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7482790/#cit0012) It is estimated that the measles, rotavirus, and pneumococcal conjugate vaccines could help avert $4.6 billion (2016 US$, adjusted for purchasing power parity) in out-of-pocket medical expenses in 41 Gavi-eligible LMICs during 2016–2030.13 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7482790/#cit0013) Vaccines could also reduce the number of people who fall into poverty due to a catastrophic medical expense which is defined as a large proportion (typically, more than 10% to 25%) of household income or expenditure.12 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7482790/#cit0012),14 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7482790/#cit0014)-20 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7482790/#cit0020)
...
Concluding remarksChildhood vaccines have numerous positive effects beyond disease prevention. The concept of broader benefits of vaccines which would include cognition, schooling, economic productivity, fertility, and related outcomes was first proposed by a key 2005 article.80 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7482790/#cit0080) During the present decade, researchers have utilized and expanded this framework across several dimensions and country contexts.76 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7482790/#cit0076),77 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7482790/#cit0077),81 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7482790/#cit0081)-85 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7482790/#cit0085)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7482790/

Oh, and BTW, vaccines do not contain aborted fetal cells.

[Gunny]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6545890/


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34334253/


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7482790/

Oh, and BTW, vaccines do not contain aborted fetal cells.

Pssst :poke: Still here. Winning :)

[fj1200]

Pssst :poke: Still here. Winning :)

I thought this was a thread about pros/cons, costs/benefits, ups/downs... Apparently it's another meme posting thread with questionable information presented from one side. :shrug:

[revelarts]

FYI
EXPERTS CONCEDE VACCINE SAFETY IS UNFUNDED AND INADEQUATE
New England Journal of medicine
"Del breaks down a recent article in the New England Journal of Medicine co-authored by Stanley Plotkin, the ‘godfather of vaccines,’ littered with admissions regarding the lack of safety studies related to vaccine safety. This monumental paper concedes many of the issues that The HighWire and the Informed Consent Action Network have been fighting for in court."

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2402379

https://rumble.com/v576tyq-experts-concede-vaccine-safety-is-unfunded-and-inadequate.html?mref=1bxo9j&mrefc=9

[Kathianne]

Something to make some happy-That should show big pharma and the wonderful, caring parents.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/measles-cases-surge-triple-last-years-with-5-months-go


Measles cases surge to triple last year's — with 5 months to goApproximately 85% of cases this year have been individuals without a Measles, Mumps, and Rubella (MMR) vaccination
By Timothy H.J. Nerozzi Fox News
Published July 27, 2024 10:17am EDT | Updated July 27, 2024 12:24pm EDT


Measles breaks out at massive NYC migrant shelter
The United States' rate of measles infections in 2024 is more than triple that of 2023, despite almost half the year still remaining.


There have been 188 reported cases of measles in the U.S. this year, according to statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention updated on Thursday.


It's a significant increase from last year, when only 58 cases were reported nationwide.




MEASLES BREAKS OUT AT MASSIVE NYC MIGRANT SHELTER


measles outbreak skin
Photo illustration shows the irritated skin of a patient afflicted with measles. The infection usually results in visible spots and a rash. (iStock)


Approximately 65% of this year's cases are associated with outbreaks, which the CDC defines as three or more related cases. There have been 13 outbreaks in the U.S. in 2024, compared to 4 outbreaks in 2023 that made up 48% of national cases.


About half of cases this year required hospitalization for the purposes of isolation or management of complications.


According to the CDC, 85% of infected individuals this year were "unvaccinated or unknown," while 10% had received one Measles, Mumps, and Rubella (MMR) vaccination and 5% had received two doses.




MMR vaccine
Photo shows a close-up of a measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine dose and the accompanying syringe. The vaccine is delivered in two doses. The first is administered for children 12 to 15 months old, followed by the second dose at 4 to 6 years old. (iStock)


Medical professionals say the risk of contracting measles is extremely low after getting vaccinated.


Measles is a highly contagious and serious airborne disease that can lead to severe complications and even death, especially in children. It is characterized by a fever as high as 105°F and malaise, cough, coryza and conjunctivitis followed by spots and a rash, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).




Despite the drastic increase in the rate of infection, it comes nowhere near 2019, when almost 1,300 cases of measles were reported across the United States in a single twelve-month period.

[revelarts]

How many people here had measles when they were a kid?
How many people knew other kids in the area that had measles when they were kids?
Personally I don't know of any who died. Or were gravely ill. I knew one girl who had scars on her skin long after (or maybe that was mumps).

But again if people want their children to be vaccinated, fine.
I'm not advocating anyone stop them.
I just don't think hey should be mandatory.



BTW measles does still happen when folks are vaccinated.
Measles outbreak in a vaccinated school population: epidemiology, chains of transmission and the role of vaccine failures.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1646939/

But if folks don't like to include that fact into reality. And want to believe that vaccines generally DO prevent measles.
Then NO parent who vaccinates their child should WORRY. THEY are protected.
It's only the crazy unvaccinated people who will get sick, be isolated at home or hospital, eat ice cream and watch movies in bed for a week.

But look Kath,
For me I have no knowledge that the measles vaccine has any bad side effects, long or short term. I haven't looked into it. Have you?
But my point with all the vaccines (drugs in general) is, what are the MAJOR benefits compared to the risk.
Seem to me there's VERY low risk in measles.
Not "NO Risk" but low risk. It's a risk many of us has as kids AND we got vaccinated as well.
I'm sure some folks are aware of tragic cases but the reality is that that is NOT typical is it?


Also concerning your article, now that the unvaccinated children have had the measles, they are now immune for life.

[Kathianne]

How many people here had measles when they were a kid?
How many people knew other kids in the area that had measles when they were kids?
Personally I don't know of any who died. Or were gravely ill. I knew one girl who had scars on her skin long after (or maybe that was mumps).

But again if people want their children to be vaccinated, fine.
I'm not advocating anyone stop them.
I just don't think hey should be mandatory.


BTW measles does still happen when folks are vaccinated.
Measles outbreak in a vaccinated school population: epidemiology, chains of transmission and the role of vaccine failures.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1646939/

But if folks don't like to include that fact into reality. And want to believe that vaccines generally DO prevent measles.
Then NO parent who vaccinates their child should WORRY. THEY are protected.
It's only the crazy unvaccinated people who will get sick, be isolated at home or hospital, eat ice cream and watch movies in bed for a week.

But look Kath,
For me I have no knowledge that the measles vaccine has any bad side effects, long or short term. I haven't looked into it. Have you?
But my point with all the vaccines (drugs in general) is, what are the MAJOR benefits compared to the risk.
Seem to me there's VERY low risk in measles.
Not "NO Risk" but low risk. It's a risk many of us has as kids AND we got vaccinated as well.
I'm sure some folks are aware of tragic cases but the reality is that that is NOT typical is it?


Also concerning your article, now that the unvaccinated children have had the measles, they are now immune for life.

Serious complications from measles are not as rare as one would think:

https://www.cdc.gov/measles/signs-symptoms/index.html


ComplicationsCommon complications from measles are:


Ear infections occur in about 1 out of every 10 children with measles.
Diarrhea is reported in less than 1 out of 10 people with measles.
Who is at risk
Measles can be serious in all age groups. However, there are several groups that are more likely to suffer from measles complications:


Children younger than 5 years of age
Adults older than 20 years of age
Pregnant people
People with weakened immune systems, such as from leukemia or HIV infection
Prevent measles & get vaccinated!‎
Talk to your health provider about the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine.
Severe complications in children and adults
Some people may suffer from severe complications, such as pneumonia (infection of the lungs) and encephalitis (swelling of the brain). They may need to be hospitalized and could die.


Hospitalization. About 1 in 5 unvaccinated people in the U.S. who get measles is hospitalized.
Pneumonia. As many as 1 out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.
Encephalitis. About 1 child out of every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis (swelling of the brain). This can lead to convulsions and leave the child deaf or with intellectual disability.
Death. Nearly 1 to 3 of every 1,000 children who become infected with measles will die from respiratory and neurologic complications.
Complications during pregnancy. If you are pregnant and have not had the MMR vaccine, measles may cause birth prematurely, or have a low-birth-weight baby.
Long-term complications
Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) is a very rare, but fatal disease of the central nervous system. It results from a measles virus infection acquired earlier in life.


About SSPE
SSPE generally develops 7 to 10 years after a person has measles, even though the person seems to have fully recovered from the illness.
Since measles was eliminated in 2000, SSPE is rarely reported in the United States.
Among people who contracted measles during the resurgence in the United States in 1989 to 1991, 7 to 11 out of every 100,000 were estimated to be at risk for developing SSPE.
The risk of developing SSPE may be higher for a person who gets measles before they are 2 years of age.


Complications from MMR:

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccines/mmr-vaccine.html


MMR Vaccine Side EffectsThe Measles, Mumps, Rubella (MMR) vaccine is very safe, and it is effective at preventing measles, mumps, and rubella. Vaccines, like any medicine, can have side effects. Most people who get MMR vaccine do not have any serious problems with it. Getting MMR vaccine is much safer than getting measles, mumps, or rubella.


Common Side Effects of MMR Vaccine
Sore arm from the shot
Fever
Mild rash
Temporary pain and stiffness in the joints, mostly in teenage or adult women who did not already have immunity to the rubella component of the vaccine
MMR vaccine has been linked with a very small risk of febrile seizures (seizures or jerking caused by fever). Febrile seizures following MMR vaccination are rare and are not associated with any long-term effects. Because the risk of febrile seizures increases as infants get older, it is recommended that they get vaccinated as soon as recommended.


Some people may experience swelling in the cheeks or neck. MMR vaccine rarely causes a temporary low platelet count, which can cause a bleeding disorder that usually goes away without treatment and is not life threatening.


Extremely rarely, a person may have a serious allergic reaction to MMR vaccine. Anyone who has ever had a life-threatening allergic reaction to the antibiotic neomycin, or any other component of MMR vaccine, should not get the vaccine.

[revelarts]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GU3aQIDXsAAP5gS?format=jpg&name=small

[revelarts]

5-Year-Old Develops Autism After Being Forced to Get 18 Vaccines in 1 Day

As part of a custody battle, a Tennessee judge ordered a family to vaccinate all three of their children, all of whom had never been vaccinated. Five-year-old Isaac immediately became ill and was eventually diagnosed with severe regressive autism.

In 2016, David Ihben moved his wife and three children from Chicago to Jamestown, in rural Tennessee, with high hopes for a new and calmer life.

But the dream turned into a nightmare for David and his children in December 2019, when divorce proceedings and a subsequent custody battle resulted in the forced vaccination of the children — and changed the family’s fortunes forever.

Ihben said his ex-wife decided “this wasn’t the life she wanted.” So they were attempting to develop a parenting plan in family court — when Tennessee judge Todd Burnett “pulled up the vaccine issue” after discovering the couple’s children were unvaccinated — and forced the parents to vaccinate their children.

Ihben’s two oldest children — daughter Hannah and son Joseph — were spared significant adverse events following their vaccination.

But his youngest son, Isaac, wasn’t so fortunate. After receiving 18 vaccines in one day, Isaac developed severe regressive autism. Today, he requires around-the-clock care.

The children’s mother soon abandoned the children, leaving Ihben to raise them as a single parent — even though he is still obliged to pay child support.

Ihben shared his story with Children’s Health Defense’s (CHD) Vax-Unvax bus. In a subsequent interview with The Defender, he detailed the challenges he faces in caring for Isaac and the harassment he endured from officials in his community. Ihben shared documentation with The Defender verifying his story.

...
Isaac, who was 5 years old at the time, was “just a normal happy kid,” Ihben said.

Today, Isaac has severe regressive autism. Ihben told The Defender:

“He doesn’t talk. He wears a diaper. He eats out of a baby bottle 20-30 times a day, he has speech therapy and will require 24-hour care and supervision for the rest of his life.

“I haven’t had a full night’s sleep in four years. He has to be changed every two hours, or he will have an accident. If you have a child with regressive autism or know someone, you will understand what our days are like.”

Ihben didn’t learn about Isaac’s injuries right away, because the court initially slapped him with a six-month restraining order. When the six months were up, he finally made plans to pick up his children for “two-hour supervised visitation” at a local McDonald’s.

“My youngest comes walking out and I’m like, ‘What’s going on?’” He said his oldest children then told him about what happened to Isaac. “My children told me everything that’s going on. Basically, nobody’s given me information. I had to go off what 10- and 11-year-olds were telling me,” Ihben said.

Ihben tried to find out what happened to Isaac — but encountered more obstacles at Cookeville Regional Medical Center, his local hospital. “The judge had sealed the hospital records. I still cannot get them,” he said....

...
It wasn’t until he enrolled his daughter in high school that, while obtaining her records from the local health department, he had a chance to view Isaac’s records. That’s when he saw that Isaac had received 18 vaccines in one day.

“How can a judge force medical care without a doctor’s input?” Ihben asked. “I don’t think judges should be dictating medical treatment from the bench.”

According to Ihben, doctors at Vanderbilt University in Nashville said Isaac’s injuries “are a direct result from forced vaccination,” with one doctor telling Ihben that “she’s seen only one other kid that acts like Isaac does.”...


https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/isaac-ihben-autism-vaccine-injury/


Vaxxed 3 (https://vaxxed3.childrenshealthdefense.org/?_ga=2.244976325.1901096038.1729945893-1020904932.1725926734)

[Gunny]

5-Year-Old Develops Autism After Being Forced to Get 18 Vaccines in 1 Day

As part of a custody battle, a Tennessee judge ordered a family to vaccinate all three of their children, all of whom had never been vaccinated. Five-year-old Isaac immediately became ill and was eventually diagnosed with severe regressive autism.
In 2016, David Ihben moved his wife and three children from Chicago to Jamestown, in rural Tennessee, with high hopes for a new and calmer life.

But the dream turned into a nightmare for David and his children in December 2019, when divorce proceedings and a subsequent custody battle resulted in the forced vaccination of the children — and changed the family’s fortunes forever.

Ihben said his ex-wife decided “this wasn’t the life she wanted.” So they were attempting to develop a parenting plan in family court — when Tennessee judge Todd Burnett “pulled up the vaccine issue” after discovering the couple’s children were unvaccinated — and forced the parents to vaccinate their children.

Ihben’s two oldest children — daughter Hannah and son Joseph — were spared significant adverse events following their vaccination.

But his youngest son, Isaac, wasn’t so fortunate. After receiving 18 vaccines in one day, Isaac developed severe regressive autism. Today, he requires around-the-clock care.

The children’s mother soon abandoned the children, leaving Ihben to raise them as a single parent — even though he is still obliged to pay child support.

Ihben shared his story with Children’s Health Defense’s (CHD) Vax-Unvax bus. In a subsequent interview with The Defender, he detailed the challenges he faces in caring for Isaac and the harassment he endured from officials in his community. Ihben shared documentation with The Defender verifying his story.

...
Isaac, who was 5 years old at the time, was “just a normal happy kid,” Ihben said.

Today, Isaac has severe regressive autism. Ihben told The Defender:

“He doesn’t talk. He wears a diaper. He eats out of a baby bottle 20-30 times a day, he has speech therapy and will require 24-hour care and supervision for the rest of his life.

“I haven’t had a full night’s sleep in four years. He has to be changed every two hours, or he will have an accident. If you have a child with regressive autism or know someone, you will understand what our days are like.”

Ihben didn’t learn about Isaac’s injuries right away, because the court initially slapped him with a six-month restraining order. When the six months were up, he finally made plans to pick up his children for “two-hour supervised visitation” at a local McDonald’s.

“My youngest comes walking out and I’m like, ‘What’s going on?’” He said his oldest children then told him about what happened to Isaac. “My children told me everything that’s going on. Basically, nobody’s given me information. I had to go off what 10- and 11-year-olds were telling me,” Ihben said.

Ihben tried to find out what happened to Isaac — but encountered more obstacles at Cookeville Regional Medical Center, his local hospital. “The judge had sealed the hospital records. I still cannot get them,” he said....

...
It wasn’t until he enrolled his daughter in high school that, while obtaining her records from the local health department, he had a chance to view Isaac’s records. That’s when he saw that Isaac had received 18 vaccines in one day.

“How can a judge force medical care without a doctor’s input?” Ihben asked. “I don’t think judges should be dictating medical treatment from the bench.”

According to Ihben, doctors at Vanderbilt University in Nashville said Isaac’s injuries “are a direct result from forced vaccination,” with one doctor telling Ihben that “she’s seen only one other kid that acts like Isaac does.”...


https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/isaac-ihben-autism-vaccine-injury/


Vaxxed 3 (https://vaxxed3.childrenshealthdefense.org/?_ga=2.244976325.1901096038.1729945893-1020904932.1725926734)Your point? Not seeing the vaccines as the issue here. Elephant in the room looks like an idiot/idiots that would give a child 18 vaccines in one day. I'm betting you can make a child comatose if you give him 18 shots of Jack.

[Kathianne]

Your point? Not seeing the vaccines as the issue here. Elephant in the room looks like an idiot/idiots that would give a child 18 vaccines in one day. I'm betting you can make a child comatose if you give him 18 shots of Jack.

Yep, I'd sue that judge. They should have gone to court for emergency stop of order pending appeal.

[Gunny]

Yep, I'd sue that judge. They should have gone to court for emergency stop of order pending appeal.Not a lawyer, but I'd be looking at charging the Judge criminally if he ordered that all vaccinations were to be given at once. Whoever the medical professional is that did that and should know better as well. Whoever made the decision to do 18 at one time.

That's ridiculous. The Navy/US military piggybacks vaccinations routinely, but never that many at once, and they've got which ones can be given together down pat. There has to be contraindication with that many vaccines.

[revelarts]

Your point? Not seeing the vaccines as the issue here. Elephant in the room looks like an idiot/idiots that would give a child 18 vaccines in one day. I'm betting you can make a child comatose if you give him 18 shots of Jack.


Yep, I'd sue that judge. They should have gone to court for emergency stop of order pending appeal.


Not a lawyer, but I'd be looking at charging the Judge criminally if he ordered that all vaccinations were to be given at once. Whoever the medical professional is that did that and should know better as well. Whoever made the decision to do 18 at one time.

That's ridiculous. The Navy/US military piggybacks vaccinations routinely, but never that many at once, and they've got which ones can be given together down pat. There has to be contraindication with that many vaccines.

In this CBS news linked below a goto vaccine safety expert, Pediatrician Dr Paul Offit, says a baby "could theoretically take 10,000 vaccines at once.".
the vaccine schedules (at the time of the report) was 55 doses of vaccines by age 6.

RFK jr group points out that there are ZERO studies done that examine what the effects of various vaccine cross interactions are.
And the CDC, FDA & big pharma spokes people get angry when folks try to get the gov't to do any.
Insisting that vaccines are "safe & effective".

https://rumble.com/v5k888l-vaccine-industry-conflict-of-interest-55-vaccines-cbs-news-sheryl-atkinson-.html

[Gunny]

In this CBS news linked below a goto vaccine safety expert, Pediatrician Dr Paul Offit, says a baby "could theoretically take 10,000 vaccines at once.".
the vaccine schedules (at the time of the report) was 55 doses of vaccines by age 6.

RFK jr group points out that there are ZERO studies done that examine what the effects of various vaccine cross interactions are.
And the CDC, FDA & big pharma spokes people get angry when folks try to get the gov't to do any.
Insisting that vaccines are "safe & effective".

https://rumble.com/v5k888l-vaccine-industry-conflict-of-interest-55-vaccines-cbs-news-sheryl-atkinson-.html

Whoever this "go to safety expert" is, I'd have no problem telling him to his face he's not only full of shit, but criminally irresponsible making such a claim when he is looked to for expertise in the field. Besides being irresponsible, his statement, verbatim, is disingenuous.

Theoretically - 10,000 vaccines - at once. That amount of foreign substance injected into the body at once? I'm thinking if you injected 10k doses of water at one time into someone it would do all kinds of damage. I guess he wouldn't mind if I injected him with 10k does of typhoid or cholera vaccine to prove his point? It would kill him and not theoretically.

There is plenty of material for studies on the interactivity of vaccines. Military medical records alone. And we take far more vaccines than you civilian types and they aren't voluntary. I can tell you from getting them there are some they won't mix because one alone will put you on your ass for 48 hours. 10,000 vaccines at once indeed:rolleyes:

[revelarts]

...
There is plenty of material for studies on the interactivity of vaccines. Military medical records alone. And we take far more vaccines than you civilian types and they aren't voluntary. I can tell you from getting them there are some they won't mix because one alone will put you on your ass for 48 hours. 10,000 vaccines at once indeed:rolleyes:
you're right.
There's material for studies based on what you mention. But apparently none have been done.
Also a study based on the military Data would be on Adult healthy & mostly males. and whatever vaccines they were given.
Not the 55 doses given before 6 years old.

BTW, even for a study that covered the effects on those men and the vaccines given them, some people don't like or accept studies based on retrospective review of large data sets like that.
They tell you that the only really good studies HAVE TO be CONTROLLED, DOUBLE BLINDED, and Peer Reviewed with a large data set and the right types of patients.
If not, well then the study should't really be considered seriously, not even to point to the likelihood of ANYTHING.
Even doctors who use them to draw conclusions are just speculating they say.

At least that's what I've been told.
IMO, I think the studies like that DO in fact give people an idea of what the pros & cons might be ... other folks, not so much

[Gunny]

you're right.
There's material for studies based on what you mention. But apparently none have been done.
Also a study based on the military Data would be on Adult healthy & mostly males. and whatever vaccines they were given.
Not the 55 doses given before 6 years old.

BTW, even for a study that covered the effects on those men and the vaccines given them, some people don't like or accept studies based on retrospective review of large data sets like that.
They tell you that the only really good studies HAVE TO be CONTROLLED, DOUBLE BLINDED, and Peer Reviewed with a large data set and the right types of patients.
If not, well then the study should't really be considered seriously, not even to point to the likelihood of ANYTHING.
Even doctors who use them to draw conclusions are just speculating they say.

At least that's what I've been told.
IMO, I think the studies like that DO in fact give people an idea of what the pros & cons might be ... other folks, not so much

You're making this too complicated. This:


They tell you that the only really good studies HAVE TO be CONTROLLED, DOUBLE BLINDED, and Peer Reviewed with a large data set and the right types of patients.
If not, well then the study should't really be considered seriously, not even to point to the likelihood of ANYTHING.

Sounds like a lot of people that hear/see only what they want.

We can agree that what this so-called expert stated is irresponsible and stupid? That requires being neither pro-nor-anti-vaccine, nor anywhere between. Just some common sense.

[revelarts]

Sounds like a lot of people that hear/see only what they want.

We can agree that what this so-called expert stated is irresponsible and stupid? That requires being neither pro-nor-anti-vaccine, nor anywhere between. Just some common sense.


Yes, we do agree that what the "expert" said was crazy. "10,000 doses".
But one point here is that no one called him on it, and he's still considered a reliable source.
And .. to keep it simply.... the official studies still have not been done.

[revelarts]

October 29, 2024
COVID
Idaho Health Board First in U.S. to Defy CDC and FDA by Removing COVID Vaccines From Clinics
Idaho’s Southwest District Health will no longer offer COVID-19 vaccines after its board voted 4-3 last week to pull the shots from the 30 locations where it provides healthcare services
Idaho’s Southwest District Health will no longer offer COVID-19 vaccines after its board voted 4-3 last week to pull the shots from the 30 locations where it provides healthcare services.

“It’s the first health agency in America to do that,” Laura Demaray, a Southwest Idaho resident and nurse who attended the Oct. 22 vote, told The Defender.

Miste Karlfeldt, executive director of Health Freedom Idaho, agreed that the board’s vote is historic. “It’s thrilling,” she told The Defender.

The board’s vote came after it received about 300 public comments urging the district, which encompasses six counties, to stop promoting the shots.

Just before the board voted, members heard presentations from cardiologist Dr. Peter McCullough, pathologist Dr. Ryan Cole, pediatrician Dr. Renata Moon and obstetrician and gynecologist Dr. James Thorp on safety concerns related to the COVID-19 vaccines.

Dr. John Tribble, the board’s only physician, invited them to speak.

“Dr. Tribble was a very brave board member who is very aware of the harms of the COVID injection,” said Demaray. “He asked me to help gather the presenters.”

Demaray, who said she knows many people injured by the COVID-19 vaccines, and others reached out to experts who could present data related to COVID-19 vaccine harms to the board. “It was total teamwork.”

Mary Holland, Children’s Health Defense CEO, applauded the board’s action:

“After hearing from 300 constituents, listening to well-informed physicians and assessing the public record, the Southwest Idaho Health District Board made an informed decision not to stock its own clinics with COVID shots.”

Demaray and Holland pointed out that the board didn’t take away anyone’s freedom to get a COVID-19 vaccine. “If residents want, they can obtain the shots from other pharmacies and doctors’ offices,” Holland said.

Demaray said the board’s decision showed “there’s some distrust in this shot.” She added:

“If a health district is giving a shot in their own clinics, then it means they believe in the shot and they don’t think somebody will get hurt. It means they support it tacitly.”

Holland said, “The Health District Board was conveying its values to the public — ‘these products are unsafe and we do not promote them’ — and the board was within its authority to do this.”

A precedent for other health agencies?

Tribble told The Defender some of the backstory leading up to the historic vote. “The people of this district were demanding answers,” he said. “Many came forward with heartbreaking stories of vaccine injury.”

After listening to its residents, the board members felt it was important to allow “the free and open discussion and evaluation of the evidence for and against the safety and efficacy of the COVID-19 vaccine.”

In addition to hearing presentations from McCullough, Moon, Cole and Thorp, the board also heard from district staff physician Dr. Perry Jansen who recommended keeping the vaccine on the district’s clinic shelves.

“In the end,” Tribble said, “the evidence clearly showed a lack of safety and efficacy as it compares to the risk from COVID-19 and their [the board members’] decision reflected that.”

The board members who voted to remove the shot “exhibited courage” because they did so “based on the evidence, in direct opposition to the federal health agencies’ recommendations.” Tribble said:

“I believe our actions here stand as an example and precedent for other health agencies to take back control of their health and freedoms from a corrupted federal system. I hope this will inspire other health agencies to openly discuss this issue and evaluate the evidence for themselves.”....


https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/idaho-health-board-defy-cdc-fda-covid-vaccines-clinics/

[Gunny]

October 29, 2024
COVID
Idaho Health Board First in U.S. to Defy CDC and FDA by Removing COVID Vaccines From Clinics
Idaho’s Southwest District Health will no longer offer COVID-19 vaccines after its board voted 4-3 last week to pull the shots from the 30 locations where it provides healthcare services
Idaho’s Southwest District Health will no longer offer COVID-19 vaccines after its board voted 4-3 last week to pull the shots from the 30 locations where it provides healthcare services.

“It’s the first health agency in America to do that,” Laura Demaray, a Southwest Idaho resident and nurse who attended the Oct. 22 vote, told The Defender.

Miste Karlfeldt, executive director of Health Freedom Idaho, agreed that the board’s vote is historic. “It’s thrilling,” she told The Defender.

The board’s vote came after it received about 300 public comments urging the district, which encompasses six counties, to stop promoting the shots.

Just before the board voted, members heard presentations from cardiologist Dr. Peter McCullough, pathologist Dr. Ryan Cole, pediatrician Dr. Renata Moon and obstetrician and gynecologist Dr. James Thorp on safety concerns related to the COVID-19 vaccines.

Dr. John Tribble, the board’s only physician, invited them to speak.

“Dr. Tribble was a very brave board member who is very aware of the harms of the COVID injection,” said Demaray. “He asked me to help gather the presenters.”

Demaray, who said she knows many people injured by the COVID-19 vaccines, and others reached out to experts who could present data related to COVID-19 vaccine harms to the board. “It was total teamwork.”

Mary Holland, Children’s Health Defense CEO, applauded the board’s action:

“After hearing from 300 constituents, listening to well-informed physicians and assessing the public record, the Southwest Idaho Health District Board made an informed decision not to stock its own clinics with COVID shots.”

Demaray and Holland pointed out that the board didn’t take away anyone’s freedom to get a COVID-19 vaccine. “If residents want, they can obtain the shots from other pharmacies and doctors’ offices,” Holland said.

Demaray said the board’s decision showed “there’s some distrust in this shot.” She added:

“If a health district is giving a shot in their own clinics, then it means they believe in the shot and they don’t think somebody will get hurt. It means they support it tacitly.”

Holland said, “The Health District Board was conveying its values to the public — ‘these products are unsafe and we do not promote them’ — and the board was within its authority to do this.”

A precedent for other health agencies?

Tribble told The Defender some of the backstory leading up to the historic vote. “The people of this district were demanding answers,” he said. “Many came forward with heartbreaking stories of vaccine injury.”

After listening to its residents, the board members felt it was important to allow “the free and open discussion and evaluation of the evidence for and against the safety and efficacy of the COVID-19 vaccine.”

In addition to hearing presentations from McCullough, Moon, Cole and Thorp, the board also heard from district staff physician Dr. Perry Jansen who recommended keeping the vaccine on the district’s clinic shelves.

“In the end,” Tribble said, “the evidence clearly showed a lack of safety and efficacy as it compares to the risk from COVID-19 and their [the board members’] decision reflected that.”

The board members who voted to remove the shot “exhibited courage” because they did so “based on the evidence, in direct opposition to the federal health agencies’ recommendations.” Tribble said:

“I believe our actions here stand as an example and precedent for other health agencies to take back control of their health and freedoms from a corrupted federal system. I hope this will inspire other health agencies to openly discuss this issue and evaluate the evidence for themselves.”....


https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/idaho-health-board-defy-cdc-fda-covid-vaccines-clinics/

I don't see a positive here. They're still legal. Those that choose to get vaccinated should be allowed as with any other vaccine.

[revelarts]

I don't see a positive here. They're still legal. Those that choose to get vaccinated should be allowed as with any other vaccine.
They can get them, just not from county run clinics.

[SassyLady]

They can get them, just not from county run clinics.
Just theorizing ...

If RFK takes over the HHS I believe the big pharma will lose their immunity. And, anyone still giving the vax will be accessories.

[Gunny]

They can get them, just not from county run clinics.Meaning only people with medical coverage or cash can get them?

[revelarts]

Meaning only people with medical coverage or cash can get them?

Probably.
Obama care or Medicare or would likely cover it for those who still sadly think they are in danger from the new versions of the virus that leave 99% of people alive. 99.999% if you're younger than 40. But gives the side effects to children & adults of heart attacks, heart damage, auto-immune problems, nerve damage, cancers, miscarriages etc, etc, etc...

[fj1200]

You're fighting the last war. People want a drug for everything.

[revelarts]

You're fighting the last war. People want a drug for everything.

People want Freedom to choose what drugs they put in their body. Full disclosure of cost to benefit, and personal freedom from gov't controls & coercion in general.
That's a never ending battle. I'm here for it.
I hope you are too.



BTW did you know that the covid shots are now known as the MOST dangerous set of "vaccines" ever unleashed on the public?

[fj1200]

They don't care about cost (does insurance cover it?) vs. benefit (is there a commercial for it?). You better win some elections if you don't want coercion.

[revelarts]

They don't care about cost (does insurance cover it?) vs. benefit (is there a commercial for it?). You better win some elections if you don't want coercion.
more to cost than money.

& So you're not here for it.

[fj1200]

I'm just here to say that society doesn't care. 50% will raise their ire when government starts mandating but they want the drugs to cure their ills because it's the easy way.

[revelarts]

I'm just here to say that society doesn't care. 50% will raise their ire when government starts mandating but they want the drugs to cure their ills because it's the easy way.

Still worth the struggle for those few of us who do not want the SO-Called "easy way".
The easy way to get cancer heart attack etc etc IMO.
And the opinion of many experts.

& If the gov't, the MSM & SM hadn't & wouldn't censor the facts of that POV, I'm sure less than 50% would be so eager to use them.

See how fast the numbers have dropped from the 1st to 3rd doses?
And the drop in vaccine trust overall.
You maybe over estimating the gullibility of the public once they are aware of the new info.
but maybe not.
People are still running after Ozympic drugs even though it's use, cost and side effects are terrible.

[fj1200]

As soon as that's proven and wolf hasn't been cried too much...

[Gunny]

Probably.
Obama care or Medicare or would likely cover it for those who still sadly think they are in danger from the new versions of the virus that leave 99% of people alive. 99.999% if you're younger than 40. But gives the side effects to children & adults of heart attacks, heart damage, auto-immune problems, nerve damage, cancers, miscarriages etc, etc, etc...


People want Freedom to choose what drugs they put in their body. Full disclosure of cost to benefit, and personal freedom from gov't controls & coercion in general.
That's a never ending battle. I'm here for it.
I hope you are too.



BTW did you know that the covid shots are now known as the MOST dangerous set of "vaccines" ever unleashed on the public?

We were not discussing, again, your anti-vax position. People either have the right to choose or they do not. Government is not supposed to discriminate where completely legal choices are concerned. You want freedom of choice so long as it is YOUR choice.

[revelarts]

We were not discussing, again, your anti-vax position. People either have the right to choose or they do not. Government is not supposed to discriminate where completely legal choices are concerned. You want freedom of choice so long as it is YOUR choice.

So if the gov't DOESN'T PAY for everyone to have the shots for free, it's not a real choice?
And I'm being LESS than freedom minded if I don't support Gov't paid & supplied medications?
really?

IF that's the case then, to be fair, then BOTH of us would have to promote gov't suppling Ivermectin, Hydrochloriquin, Vitamin D, C and 3 or 4 other Alternative treatments FOR FREE & Available to everyone as well as the vaccines.
so there's a REAL Choice.
Right?
If I'm getting "MY CHOICE".

[revelarts]

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:
"I just want to make this clear. I don't want to take vaccines away from people. I don't want to impose my choices on the American public. If vaccines are working for you, you ought to be able to get them. And I'll make sure that happens. But people should have informed choice. So they should have good science that tells them the cost and the benefits of these products, particularly since they're being ordered to use them."

"76 million kids a year are required to use them. and they're healthy children. So it's the only medical product that's given to healthy people. You want a product like that to be extra solid, to make sure there's no risk, because you can take, you know, there's certain risks that you'll take if you're sick to get better. Of course. But if you're not sick, and you shouldn't be required to take a product unless it is iron-clad, unless you know what the... you know, what all the costs and benefits are."

"And the problem with vaccines is that they were originally introduced by the Public Health Service, which is one of the five military services. That's why there's a surgeon general. And the Public Health Service introduced them and pushed them as a national security defense against biological attacks on our country. So they wanted to make sure that if the Russians attacked us with anthrax with some other biological agent They could quickly formulate a vaccine and then deploy it to 220 million American civilians without regulatory impediments."

"A normal Medical product takes about eight years to get to market because it has to go through double-blind placebo controlled trials And you need to see long-term effects. There are many effects On every medical product that have long diagnostic horizons long incubation periods They didn't want to go through that because they said it's going to be a national emergency. So instead of calling it a medicine, we're going to call it a biologic and we're going to exempt biologics from pre-licensing safety studies."

"So there's no vaccine on that schedule, that 72 vaccines, that has ever gone through a pre-licensing safety study placebo-controlled trial against a real placebo. And that's wrong because that means that nobody knows what the risk profiles are on these products. And nobody can tell you whether that product is averting more problems than it's causing."

"And what I will do, you know, if I'm given this job in the White House, is I'll make sure that those studies get done, that there are people on the panels that approve these products that are not loaded with conflicts of interest. So it's real science. disinterested people and that doctors and patients and Americans know exactly what the costs and benefits of every vaccine are and can make a rational decision."

[Gunny]

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:
"I just want to make this clear. I don't want to take vaccines away from people. I don't want to impose my choices on the American public. If vaccines are working for you, you ought to be able to get them. And I'll make sure that happens. But people should have informed choice. So they should have good science that tells them the cost and the benefits of these products, particularly since they're being ordered to use them."

"76 million kids a year are required to use them. and they're healthy children. So it's the only medical product that's given to healthy people. You want a product like that to be extra solid, to make sure there's no risk, because you can take, you know, there's certain risks that you'll take if you're sick to get better. Of course. But if you're not sick, and you shouldn't be required to take a product unless it is iron-clad, unless you know what the... you know, what all the costs and benefits are."

"And the problem with vaccines is that they were originally introduced by the Public Health Service, which is one of the five military services. That's why there's a surgeon general. And the Public Health Service introduced them and pushed them as a national security defense against biological attacks on our country. So they wanted to make sure that if the Russians attacked us with anthrax with some other biological agent They could quickly formulate a vaccine and then deploy it to 220 million American civilians without regulatory impediments."

"A normal Medical product takes about eight years to get to market because it has to go through double-blind placebo controlled trials And you need to see long-term effects. There are many effects On every medical product that have long diagnostic horizons long incubation periods They didn't want to go through that because they said it's going to be a national emergency. So instead of calling it a medicine, we're going to call it a biologic and we're going to exempt biologics from pre-licensing safety studies."

"So there's no vaccine on that schedule, that 72 vaccines, that has ever gone through a pre-licensing safety study placebo-controlled trial against a real placebo. And that's wrong because that means that nobody knows what the risk profiles are on these products. And nobody can tell you whether that product is averting more problems than it's causing."

"And what I will do, you know, if I'm given this job in the White House, is I'll make sure that those studies get done, that there are people on the panels that approve these products that are not loaded with conflicts of interest. So it's real science. disinterested people and that doctors and patients and Americans know exactly what the costs and benefits of every vaccine are and can make a rational decision."

I hope Trump was kidding about giving a conspiracy theorist, anti-vaxxer on steroids a job:rolleyes:

[revelarts]

"So there's no vaccine on that schedule, that 72 vaccines, that has ever gone through a pre-licensing safety study placebo-controlled trial against a real placebo. And that's wrong because that means that nobody knows what the risk profiles are on these products. And nobody can tell you whether that product is averting more problems than it's causing."

"And what I will do, you know, if I'm given this job in the White House, is I'll make sure that those studies get done, that there are people on the panels that approve these products that are not loaded with conflicts of interest. So it's real science. disinterested people and that doctors and patients and Americans know exactly what the costs and benefits of every vaccine are and can make a rational decision."

I hope Trump was kidding about giving a conspiracy theorist, anti-vaxxer on steroids a job:rolleyes:


:laugh:
Typical American Joe: Just Trust and Believe in Vaccines!! ever hear of Polio?!?!
Some Dude: Um...How about some test?
Typical American Joe: Test?! You're a crazy conspiracy theorist, ANTI-VAXXER on steroids !!!!
:laugh:

[Gunny]

:laugh:
Typical American Joe: Just Trust and Believe in Vaccines!! ever hear of Polio?!?!
Some Dude: Um...How about some test?
Typical American Joe: Test?! You're crazy conspiracy theorist, ANTI-VAXXER on steroids !!!!
:laugh:

Guess what ... if you test positive for polio it's too damned late. The same with anything else. Vaccines are preventive, not a cure.

[revelarts]

Guess what ... if you test positive for polio it's too damned late. The same with anything else. Vaccines are preventive, not a cure.

And you know it prevented something because it WASN'T tested?
And you know it didn't cause any negative reactions because it WASN'T tested?
And you know it didn't cause any negative reactions when crossed/layered with 10-20 other vaccines because it WASN'T tested?

And you know it's better than nothing because it WASN'T tested?

OK

[Gunny]

And you know it prevented something because it WASN'T tested?
And you know it didn't cause any negative reactions because it WASN'T tested?
And you know it didn't cause any negative reactions when crossed/layered with 10-20 other vaccines because it WASN'T tested?

And you know it's better than nothing because it WASN'T tested?

OKWrong again. The polio vaccine was tested.

I also know, as I have told you before, I went to school with polio victims. The ones there was enough left of to go to school. The lucky ones were on crutches or wheelchairs. The ones in iron lungs I didn't see.

I'll take the vaccination. Feel free to take your chances.

[SassyLady]

I hope Trump was kidding about giving a conspiracy theorist, anti-vaxxer on steroids a job:rolleyes:

RFK Jr is not anti vax. He just wants then tested to the same standard as any other medicine that the FDA approves. Vaccines do not have the same level of testing.

[SassyLady]

I'm just here to say that society doesn't care. 50% will raise their ire when government starts mandating but they want the drugs to cure their ills because it's the easy way.

RFK is advocating for cleaning up our food and water sources so we aren't so sick we need the meds. Are you in board for thatmission?

[SassyLady]

Still worth the struggle for those few of us who do not want the SO-Called "easy way".
The easy way to get cancer heart attack etc etc IMO.
And the opinion of many experts.

& If the gov't, the MSM & SM hadn't & wouldn't censor the facts of that POV, I'm sure less than 50% would be so eager to use them.

See how fast the numbers have dropped from the 1st to 3rd doses?
And the drop in vaccine trust overall.
You maybe over estimating the gullibility of the public once they are aware of the new info.
but maybe not.
People are still running after Ozympic drugs even though it's use, cost and side effects are terrible.

revelarts

I use semiglutide (ozempic) for being prediabetic for over 3 years. I started using it before it was named ozempic. I get it through compounding pharmacy and it's cheaper. Medicare doesn't cover it for prediabetic or weight loss.

There are side effects ... for me it's hair loss and constipation (but all meds do that to me). The benefits for me are worth it.

[SassyLady]

Still worth the struggle for those few of us who do not want the SO-Called "easy way".
The easy way to get cancer heart attack etc etc IMO.
And the opinion of many experts.

& If the gov't, the MSM & SM hadn't & wouldn't censor the facts of that POV, I'm sure less than 50% would be so eager to use them.

See how fast the numbers have dropped from the 1st to 3rd doses?
And the drop in vaccine trust overall.
You maybe over estimating the gullibility of the public once they are aware of the new info.
but maybe not.
People are still running after Ozympic drugs even though it's use, cost and side effects are terrible.

revelarts

I've not taken the covid vax ... never will. I used to get the flu vax but won't ever do that one again. I've had covid twice in the last 4 years. I've had sinus infections that just as miserable. The good thing is that I don't have all the "added" ingredients from the vax. I know people who had the vax and get covid and are just as miserable I was without the vax. So why risk getting the vax?

[SassyLady]

We were not discussing, again, your anti-vax position. People either have the right to choose or they do not. Government is not supposed to discriminate where completely legal choices are concerned. You want freedom of choice so long as it is YOUR choice.
Freedom of choice for my body and complete transparency about the vax for the public so they are informed about their choice. Is that too much to ask for?

[fj1200]

RFK is advocating for cleaning up our food and water sources so we aren't so sick we need the meds. Are you in board for thatmission?

It's folly to hold hope in one person.

[Kathianne]

It's folly to hold hope in one person.

Totally agree. I have no issue with bringing forward his concerns, including any scientific information he thinks of use from Europe. Mentioned a few weeks ago, dyes and such removed from cereals. Make that known, fine with me. OTOH, one man's opinion shouldn't be the threshold for changing what companies produce. It's like how CA and AZ refuse to all ALDI to sell USDA Angus beef in their stores, keeping costs artificially high for citizens, to protect one industry. AZ producers refuse to sell to Aldi's, but other producers do.

[SassyLady]

It's folly to hold hope in one person.

It's a start. I'm pretty optimistic about RFK Jrs experience in knowing the depth of corruption and the people who are corrupt in the health industry. It's his expertise.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/rfk-jr-wants-clear-out-entire-departments-fda-they-have-go

[fj1200]

It's a start. I'm pretty optimistic about RFK Jrs experience in knowing the depth of corruption and the people who are corrupt in the health industry. It's his expertise.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/rfk-jr-wants-clear-out-entire-departments-fda-they-have-go

Not the word I'd use but I'm open to being incorrect.

[revelarts]

Totally agree. I have no issue with bringing forward his concerns, including any scientific information he thinks of use from Europe. Mentioned a few weeks ago, dyes and such removed from cereals. Make that known, fine with me. OTOH, one man's opinion shouldn't be the threshold for changing what companies produce. It's like how CA and AZ refuse to all ALDI to sell USDA Angus beef in their stores, keeping costs artificially high for citizens, to protect one industry. AZ producers refuse to sell to Aldi's, but other producers do.

understood, And he has talked about removing many chemicals from our food supply.
But If he can show that real harms being done by chemical additives to food, it seems that if we have to PAY extra NOT to have them, it's worth a bit of rise in price.
Unlike banning meat in general which is like banning carrots.
You'd think that ADDED chemicals would make food more expensive. Unless they are outright replacing real food with cheap but tasty chemicals. fake butter, chocolate, sugar, oils, flavors, etc..
But Hey, if people want fake foods fine, I'D be just as happy if they where just forced to be honest and not call a food something it's not. Add the chemical warnings. And NOT stifle natural growers & producers. (like what happens with destructive raids on fresh milk & cheese products of the amish and the like)

[SassyLady]

Not the word I'd use but I'm open to being incorrect.

Suing the food industry and being an environmental lawyer isn't considered expertise? Experience would be a better word for you maybe?

Rather than me guessing where you're coming from why not just tell us what word you would "use"

[fj1200]

Suing the food industry and being an environmental lawyer isn't considered expertise? Experience would be a better word for you maybe?

Rather than me guessing where you're coming from why not just tell us what word you would "use"

Being a lawyer makes you an advocate for your client. Expertise is not required nor really is intelligence considering how many lawyers there are in the world. Besides, I'm not really concerned what word anyone wants to use. The question is correct or incorrect.

[Gunny]

Freedom of choice for my body and complete transparency about the vax for the public so they are informed about their choice. Is that too much to ask for?

So you're pro choice?

[Gunny]

It's a start. I'm pretty optimistic about RFK Jrs experience in knowing the depth of corruption and the people who are corrupt in the health industry. It's his expertise.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/rfk-jr-wants-clear-out-entire-departments-fda-they-have-go

His "expertise" thinks it's okay for him to take steroids so long as it's re-labeled "testosterone therapy":rolleyes: There's some judgement that needs to make the rounds at high school gyms:rolleyes:

[SassyLady]

So you're pro choice?

For what goes into my body? You bet!

[SassyLady]

His "expertise" thinks it's okay for him to take steroids so long as it's re-labeled "testosterone therapy":rolleyes: There's some judgement that needs to make the rounds at high school gyms:rolleyes:

I don't give a fuck what he puts in his body or what you put in yours as long as it's your choice and you have all the info on the ingredients ... oh and that you are not mandated to inject yourself with it.

[Gunny]

I don't give a fuck what he puts in his body or what you put in yours as long as it's your choice and you have all the info on the ingredients ... oh and that you are not mandated to inject yourself with it.

I beg to differ:rolleyes:

[Kathianne]

I beg to differ:rolleyes:

Me too, to a degree.

[revelarts]

It's folly to hold hope in one person.
:rolleyes:
So 'it' takes a village"?

look, It's a good thing that he's never done it alone then.
He got to where he is by sitting down with the vaccine injured and parents of children killed or harmed by vaccines. They pointed him to the damning hard documentation available and experts in vaccines. For over a decade now he's worked with teams of researchers on the issue and has gained real expertise himself, 1st, to be able to understand the medical issues very well, and then to deal with legal/political/corporate issues.

It's folly to dismiss a person's expertise by using negative generalities about any profession, (what profession are you in?) or dismiss potential impact simply because you don't like position's you've half heard on the news.

BTW I think we all know that one person can make a huge difference.

[revelarts]

I don't give a fuck what he puts in his body or what you put in yours as long as it's your choice and you have all the info on the ingredients ... oh and that you are not mandated to inject yourself with it.I beg to differ:rolleyes:

So you do care what RFK jr puts in his body?
& you differ with people having a choice & knowing info on ingredients?
& you differ with NO mandates on drugs?

What do you differ with here? i'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

[SassyLady]

Me too, to a degree.

So you and gunny care about what RFK is putting in his body?

[Kathianne]

So you and gunny care about what RFK is putting in his body?

Him in particular? You? Rev? Nah, for one thing you are all adults. I am concerned about childhood killers and the herd effect. I know, rev isn't, I don't have to agree.

[fj1200]

:rolleyes:
So 'it' takes a village"?

look, It's a good thing that he's never done it alone then.
He got to where he is by sitting down with the vaccine injured and parents of children killed or harmed by vaccines. They pointed him to the damning hard documentation available and experts in vaccines. For over a decade now he's worked with teams of researchers on the issue and has gained real expertise himself, 1st, to be able to understand the medical issues very well, and then to deal with legal/political/corporate issues.

It's folly to dismiss a person's expertise by using negative generalities about any profession, (what profession are you in?) or dismiss potential impact simply because you don't like position's you've half heard on the news.

BTW I think we all know that one person can make a huge difference.

Yup, you like him. It doesn't make him right. Neither does his profession and that's all I was saying. There are good lawyers and there are bad lawyers and a lawyer's job is to advocate, not be an expert.

I'm an appraiser and according to biden and others I'm the reason why the black community doesn't gain generational wealth. They're wrong of course but I will recognize that there are bad appraisers and my job is not to be an expert in all things real estate.

[revelarts]

...
He got to where he is by sitting down with the vaccine injured and parents of children killed or harmed by vaccines. They pointed him to the damning hard documentation available and experts in vaccines. For over a decade now he's worked with teams of researchers on the issue and has gained real expertise himself, 1st, to be able to understand the medical issues very well, and then to deal with legal/political/corporate issues....Yup, you like him.
:rolleyes:


It doesn't make him right.
Evidence will show if he's right or wrong.
If people are open enough to take time to review it objectively,
rather than decide whether or not they "like him" or his profession, or assume the worst, put negative labels on him or dismiss what he says out of hand.

that's all I'm saying FJ.

[Kathianne]

:rolleyes:



Evidence will show if he's right or wrong.
If people are open enough to take time to review it objectively,
rather than decide whether or not they "like him" or his profession, or assume the worst, call him names or dismiss it out of hand.

that's all i'm saying FJ.

I don't have to 'like' someone to take advice, if I'm convinced it's beneficial. I'm not calling out names, not at you or at Kennedy. If it matters, I believe he is sincere, as are you. Doesn't make him right or wrong.

I've made my own decisions regarding vaccines for myself and for my kids, when I was responsible for them. Regarding Covid, I told them I saw no reason for them to get it, not with the numbers of those dying. OTOH, I figured I should get it, again based on age and health factors. Today I would choose different, but you might not get a future if you choose wrong.

As for childhood illness prevention MMR; polio; DPT all are very well studied, none without possible side effects. IMO, those side effects are worth the prevention of the diseases they prevent. Yes, for most measles are not a life threatening disease, but for those that are effected, which still far outnumber those with adverse vaccine reactions, it's more than worth it. There are the very small number that cannot take the vaccine due to medical issues, herd immunity protects them.

So if you don't wish to have your child inoculated, home school and keep them away from other children other than those that also choose to be vaccine free. Totally acceptable choice.

[fj1200]

:rolleyes:


Evidence will show if he's right or wrong.
If people are open enough to take time to review it objectively,
rather than decide whether or not they "like him" or his profession, or assume the worst, put negative labels on him or dismiss what he says out of hand.

that's all I'm saying FJ.

Exactly when Have I said otherwise? I'll wait for your retraction of the rest of your post because I didn't say that either.

[Gunny]

Him in particular? You? Rev? Nah, for one thing you are all adults. I am concerned about childhood killers and the herd effect. I know, rev isn't, I don't have to agree.

This will be one of those times where I just :) and say nothing.

[SassyLady]

I don't have to 'like' someone to take advice, if I'm convinced it's beneficial. I'm not calling out names, not at you or at Kennedy. If it matters, I believe he is sincere, as are you. Doesn't make him right or wrong.

I've made my own decisions regarding vaccines for myself and for my kids, when I was responsible for them. Regarding Covid, I told them I saw no reason for them to get it, not with the numbers of those dying. OTOH, I figured I should get it, again based on age and health factors. Today I would choose different, but you might not get a future if you choose wrong.

As for childhood illness prevention MMR; polio; DPT all are very well studied, none without possible side effects. IMO, those side effects are worth the prevention of the diseases they prevent. Yes, for most measles are not a life threatening disease, but for those that are effected, which still far outnumber those with adverse vaccine reactions, it's more than worth it. There are the very small number that cannot take the vaccine due to medical issues, herd immunity protects them.

So if you don't wish to have your child inoculated, home school and keep them away from other children other than those that also choose to be vaccine free. Totally acceptable choice.

I have one great grandchild that has been inoculated to the max. I have another whose parents are investigating each and every vax and making informed decisions and they are not getting them all at once. They don't want to overload his immune system.

So ... educate yourself before making a decision seems to be the smart way to handle this rather than going with the herd mentality.

[Kathianne]

I have one great grandchild that has been inoculated to the max. I have another whose parents are investigating each and every vax and making informed decisions and they are not getting them all at once. They don't want to overload his immune system.

So ... educate yourself before making a decision seems to be the smart way to handle this rather than going with the herd mentality.

Being educated in commonsense will lead one to the herd immunity, with very few medical exceptions. As I said, I've no problem with someone that homeschools and keeps their kids away from kids that cannot be vaccinated-that would be educated and caring parents making their own decisions; not just selfish, 'not my kid' types.

[Gunny]

I have one great grandchild that has been inoculated to the max. I have another whose parents are investigating each and every vax and making informed decisions and they are not getting them all at once. They don't want to overload his immune system.

So ... educate yourself before making a decision seems to be the smart way to handle this rather than going with the herd mentality.Common sense would assume most people educate themselves before getting immunizations. Nobody has stated anything much different in the past 4 years.

Only problem I see here is when certain people refuse to accept others' education and/or decisions if they differ from their own. Sounds so very Democratic Party:rolleyes:

[SassyLady]

Common sense would assume most people educate themselves before getting immunizations. Nobody has stated anything much different in the past 4 years.

Only problem I see here is when certain people refuse to accept others' education and/or decisions if they differ from their own. Sounds so very Democratic Party:rolleyes:

Really ... how many actually educated themselves about the covid vax. Or did they just trust what the government was telling them and their doctors? I would argue the majority that lined up in their cars for a drive through vax did not question the narrative.

[Black Diamond]

Really ... how many actually educated themselves about the covid vax. Or did they just trust what the government was telling them and their doctors? I would argue the majority that lined up in their cars for a drive through vax did not question the narrative.

The latter. I don't fault them for trusting. We have family members who ran right out and got them. They couldn't wait to do it. Just have to hope they don't have trouble down the road. I am glad my wife who's a nurse said let's hold off.

[Gunny]

Really ... how many actually educated themselves about the covid vax. Or did they just trust what the government was telling them and their doctors? I would argue the majority that lined up in their cars for a drive through vax did not question the narrative.

Thanks for making my point. More than just I bothered to educate ourselves. We just didn't immerse ourselves in "the government's trying to kill us" conspiracy theories to get easily obtainable facts. If anything, the cloud of bullshit conspiracy theories and theorists blew out their asses around the topic did more harm than good by confusing people trying to educate themselves on real facts.

FACT: more people died in one day from the virus than have died total from the vaccine. Wonder how many people died from covid for believing some people telling them the vaccine would kill them. Get over your fucking self:rolleyes:

And, any time you want to get back to being civil, I will do likewise.

[SassyLady]

Thanks for making my point. More than just I bothered to educate ourselves. We just didn't immerse ourselves in "the government's trying to kill us" conspiracy theories to get easily obtainable facts. If anything, the cloud of bullshit conspiracy theories and theorists blew out their asses around the topic did more harm than good by confusing people trying to educate themselves on real facts.

FACT: more people died in one day from the virus than have died total from the vaccine. Wonder how many people died from covid for believing some people telling them the vaccine would kill them. Get over your fucking self:rolleyes:

And, any time you want to get back to being civil, I will do likewise.

Well I certainly haven't cursed at you. You seem so touchy on the subject. Perhaps me thinks thou doth protest too much.

You have no idea yet if more have died from the vax side effects than died from the virus.
Not enough data on long term effects.

I tried posting that ivermectin helps with the symptoms and no need for the vax. You implied I was breaking the law because I bought it overseas when it wasn't available here.

[Black Diamond]

How is it this topic causes so much trouble on this board given everyone agrees it should be your choice?

[Kathianne]

How is it this topic causes so much trouble on this board given everyone agrees it should be your choice?

I think for the simple reason that some feel they know what everyone should do, listen to them. When it doesn't work that way, they get very condescending and are all surprised that others take offense.

[Gunny]

Well I certainly haven't cursed at you. You seem so touchy on the subject. Perhaps me thinks thou doth protest too much.

You have no idea yet if more have died from the vax side effects than died from the virus.
Not enough data on long term effects.

I tried posting that ivermectin helps with the symptoms and no need for the vax. You implied I was breaking the law because I bought it overseas when it wasn't available here.

Try your head games on someone else. An insult is an insult, whether it be blunt or hidden in word salad.

You better go back and re-read that thread. I never implied nor stated any such thing, nor has any such concern crossed my mind. I don't care how you got it, nor that you decided it was some wonder drug. None of my business. Just like anyone else's choices are none of yours. I stated words to the effect that you should not be giving out medical advice when you aren't a doctor. If you can't figure out the possible ramifications of that, you might want to.

[SassyLady]

Try your head games on someone else. An insult is an insult, whether it be blunt or hidden in word salad.

You better go back and re-read that thread. I never implied nor stated any such thing, nor has any such concern crossed my mind. I don't care how you got it, nor that you decided it was some wonder drug. None of my business. Just like anyone else's choices are none of yours. I stated words to the effect that you should not be giving out medical advice when you aren't a doctor. If you can't figure out the possible ramifications of that, you might want to.

Giving links to information is not giving medical advice.

I don't have the computer knowledge to search what you implied but you did insinuate it Gunny. Don't deny it just because you can talk smack shit better than me.

[revelarts]

I think for the simple reason that some feel they know what everyone should do, listen to them. When it doesn't work that way, they get very condescending and are all surprised that others take offense.
very condescending like
...not an "expert"...
...he's just a lawyer...
..maybe its on rumble...
...you like him...
...conspiracy theorist, anti-vaxxer...
...It's folly to...

[Gunny]

Giving links to information is not giving medical advice.

I don't have the computer knowledge to search what you implied but you did insinuate it Gunny. Don't deny it just because you can talk smack shit better than me.

Easy to deny something when it I happen to know for a fact people running across the Border for medical treatment or medication they can't get here isn't a blip on my radar, and pretty much a subculture with the Hispanic community here.

What it unsurprisingly points to is more you not reading what is there and seeing what you want.

[Gunny]

very condescending like
...not an "expert"...
...he's just a lawyer...
..maybe its on rumble...
...you like him...
...conspiracy theorist, anti-vaxxer...
...It's folly to...




Not in the mood for one of your deflective, out of context circle jerks:rolleyes:

[fj1200]

very condescending like
...not an "expert"...
...he's just a lawyer...
..maybe its on rumble...
...you like him...
...conspiracy theorist, anti-vaxxer...
...It's folly to...




:rolleyes:

This. \/


Not in the mood for one of your deflective, out of context circle jerks:rolleyes:

[revelarts]

Having been called a liar by Anthony Fauci for saying that "not one of the 72 vaccines mandated for children has ever been safety tested", RFK Jr. sued Fauci.
After a year of stonewalling, Fauci's lawyers admitted that RFK Jr. had been right all along.

RFK jr:
"There's no downstream liability, there's no front-end safety testing... and there's no marketing and advertising costs, because the federal government is ordering 78 million school kids to take that vaccine every year."

"What better product could you have? And so there was a gold rush to add all these new vaccines to the schedule... because if you get onto that schedule, it's a billion dollars a year for your company."

"So we got all of these new vaccines, 72 shots, 16 vaccines... And that year, 1989, we saw an explosion in chronic disease in American children... ADHD, sleep disorders, language delays, ASD, autism, Tourette's syndrome, ticks, narcolepsy."

"Autism went from one in 10,000 in my generation... to one in every 34 kids today."

Reality Theorist.
Studies should be done.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GTMKngjXsAAZAiZ?format=jpg&name=medium
https://icandecide.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/no-placebo-101823.pdf


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GcPafrEX0AAeUiV?format=png&name=small

"POST-APPROVAL... SIDS... Autism... reported"

[Gunny]

Having been called a liar by Anthony Fauci for saying that "not one of the 72 vaccines mandated for children has ever been safety tested", RFK Jr. sued Fauci.
After a year of stonewalling, Fauci's lawyers admitted that RFK Jr. had been right all along.

RFK jr:
"There's no downstream liability, there's no front-end safety testing... and there's no marketing and advertising costs, because the federal government is ordering 78 million school kids to take that vaccine every year."

"What better product could you have? And so there was a gold rush to add all these new vaccines to the schedule... because if you get onto that schedule, it's a billion dollars a year for your company."

"So we got all of these new vaccines, 72 shots, 16 vaccines... And that year, 1989, we saw an explosion in chronic disease in American children... ADHD, sleep disorders, language delays, ASD, autism, Tourette's syndrome, ticks, narcolepsy."

"Autism went from one in 10,000 in my generation... to one in every 34 kids today."

Reality Theorist.
Studies should be done.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GTMKngjXsAAZAiZ?format=jpg&name=medium
https://icandecide.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/no-placebo-101823.pdf


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GcPafrEX0AAeUiV?format=png&name=small

"POST-APPROVAL... SIDS... Autism... reported"

One quack suing another. That's rich :lmao: