Trump Indictment

[Kathianne]

I don't see a whole lot of difference between Trump, Clinton, and Biden as far as documents go. What all the nuance means, all I can say is Turley has been on Trump's side of all DOJ flap thus far. This is different:

https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2023/06/09/turley-this-is-an-extremely-damning-indictment-n556877

[Kathianne]

What Turley has opined regarding indictment on FOX:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/new-trump-indictment-documents-whole-different-ballgame-jonathan-turley

Pretty damning.

None of which exonerate anyone else, indeed just highlights why all should be indicted if warranted. The country is not here for the benefit of politicians.

[Gunny]

What Turley has opined regarding indictment on FOX:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/new-trump-indictment-documents-whole-different-ballgame-jonathan-turley

Pretty damning.

None of which exonerate anyone else, indeed just highlights why all should be indicted if warranted. The country is not here for the benefit of politicians.I am not surprised in the least. One thing I took note of early on in my Marine Corps career is that when the system goes after someone, it is extremely efficient, especially since it is dealing with fallible humanoids.

Everyone has lied, stolen and made mistakes. The investigative system centers around finding that government pen in your desk, or extra canteen in your wall locker or that classified document you were careless with. They're out for blood, and no transgression too small to pile on as an additional charge.

I'm excusing no one. But I know for a fact from observation you could put most of the Federal government within the Beltway on trial for the same. Nothing scarier than seeing some dolt Congressional aide heading down the hall in the Pentagon with a classified document you signed for with an I'll be back over the shoulder. An aside: No the F- you won't. Sign for that shit or give it back now, I don't care who you are nor who you work for.

They're all above the law and if you go along to get along, you're guilty. Then they've always go it to use if and when the time comes.

In Trump's case, he's a dumbass civilian with no previous experience in government and it showed and still does. No doubt he did what he was told he could, as they all do. Add to that him doing WTF he wants anyway when it suits him:rolleyes:

None of which has anything to do with what the public - especially his supporters - are seeing. This is a politically motivated, and one-sided selective prosecution for what most of those politicians do. I seriously doubt Biden and Pence are the only two other people with classified docs laying around the house.

[Kathianne]

I am not surprised in the least. One thing I took note of early on in my Marine Corps career is that when the system goes after someone, it is extremely efficient, especially since it is dealing with fallible humanoids.

Everyone has lied, stolen and made mistakes. The investigative system centers around finding that government pen in your desk, or extra canteen in your wall locker or that classified document you were careless with. They're out for blood, and no transgression too small to pile on as an additional charge.

I'm excusing no one. But I know for a fact from observation you could put most of the Federal government within the Beltway on trial for the same. Nothing scarier than seeing some dolt Congressional aide heading down the hall in the Pentagon with a classified document you signed for with an I'll be back over the shoulder. An aside: No the F- you won't. Sign for that shit or give it back now, I don't care who you are nor who you work for.

They're all above the law and if you go along to get along, you're guilty. Then they've always go it to use if and when the time comes.

In Trump's case, he's a dumbass civilian with no previous experience in government and it showed and still does. No doubt he did what he was told he could, as they all do. Add to that him doing WTF he wants anyway when it suits him:rolleyes:

None of which has anything to do with what the public - especially his supporters - are seeing. This is a politically motivated, and one-sided selective prosecution for what most of those politicians do. I seriously doubt Biden and Pence are the only two other people with classified docs laying around the house.


I think Pence, what is at least public thus far, is an example of where an equivalent public warning ticket is appropriate. A public reprimand, perhaps a fine.

Biden, what's known thus far, serious punishment with jail time. Decades of abuse through at minimum two offices. Total lack of condition.

Same with Hillary and Trump. All three have publicly thumbed the noses at the rules, processes, and the people.Hillsry's comments on washing emails; Trump's use of documents remove all doubt of anything other than contempt for rules or security of US.

[Gunny]

I think Pence, what is at least public thus far, is an example of where an equivalent public warning ticket is appropriate. A public reprimand, perhaps a fine.

Biden, what's known thus far, serious punishment with jail time. Decades of abuse through at minimum two offices. Total lack of condition.

Same with Hillary and Trump. All three have publicly thumbed the noses at the rules, processes, and the people.Hillsry's comments on washing emails; Trump's use of documents remove all doubt of anything other than contempt for rules or security of US.

Where I see the difference between Trump and others, is his talking to people without clearances about classified info. I'm wait-n-see on that since I've seen nothing but the allegation to this point. Again, if you're part of the DC elite, it's okay. Until they want to nail you.

The fact is, acceptable or not with the general public, they ALL violated the same law(s). "Justice" should be equal. If we're going to allow elite, above the law politicians off with a slap on the wrist but no more going forward, then "equal" is across the board.

Meanwhile, they've got more than enough to slap Don Joe and his familia with RICOH. Cricket's chirping.

All coincidentally coming to a head just in time for party conventions and gearing up for 2024:rolleyes:

[Kathianne]

Where I see the difference between Trump and others, is his talking to people without clearances about classified info. I'm wait-n-see on that since I've seen nothing but the allegation to this point. Again, if you're part of the DC elite, it's okay. Until they want to nail you.

The fact is, acceptable or not with the general public, they ALL violated the same law(s). "Justice" should be equal. If we're going to allow elite, above the law politicians off with a slap on the wrist but no more going forward, then "equal" is across the board.

Meanwhile, they've got more than enough to slap Don Joe and his familia with RICOH. Cricket's chirping.

All coincidentally coming to a head just in time for party conventions and gearing up for 2024:rolleyes:


Pretty sure this is why Dershowitz has backed off his initial take:

4 days ago: https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/alan-dershowitz-trump-indictment-pass-richard-nixon-test

Today's letter: https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-strong-indictment-but-is-it-strong-enough-jack-smith-classified-docs-public-opinion-trump-80cd7480?st=s875gpwf6cdg90h&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

[jimnyc]

I don't see a whole lot of difference between Trump, Clinton, and Biden as far as documents go. What all the nuance means, all I can say is Turley has been on Trump's side of all DOJ flap thus far. This is different:

https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2023/06/09/turley-this-is-an-extremely-damning-indictment-n556877

I agree. Hillary and her server, Biden with confidential documents, Trump and his documents.... all thumbing their noses and doing things as they please. Only the investigations/charges differ. Same with Hunter Biden sliding, and all of the many connections to Joe Biden as well. All mainly ignored.

This is NOT to absolve Trump in any way. Just that 'those in charge' pick and choose how to handle things and with who. Same goes with much of the media... and folks who deny Hillary and Biden's handiwork.

[Kathianne]

Pretty decent commentary on our common mess:

https://johnkassnews.com/no-jesters-in-the-banana-republic/


No Laughing Jesters in Biden’s Banana Republicby John Kass | June 13, 2023


If America were truly a mentally healthy nation, the popular culture would be bursting with Banana Boats and deviously sarcastic Calypso singers.


And they’d be mocking President Joe Biden for transforming America into his favorite ice cream flavor as he aims his (our?) government at his political rival.


The flavor?


Biden Banana Republic.

...

Because they’re afraid. Oh they were excited and pleased that Democrat Biden, although doddering, and senile to the point of drooling in public, is still vicious enough to remake the United States as a Banana Republic.


Because it was Biden who ordered that his chief political rival–former Republican President Donald Trump–be criminally indicted in the hopes of removing him as a political candidate in the 2024 election. Isn’t that election interference? Isn’t that what third-world nations do to their politics?


And now that former President Donald Trump has been criminally indicted as Biden wanted, more news crashed against the calm demeanor of jesterdom: Iowa Republican Senator Chuck Grassley said that the FBI source who reported President Biden’s alleged role in a multi-million dollar bribery plot is claiming to have 17 audio recordings of Joe Biden and his son, Hunter Biden.


The source kept the recordings for “insurance.”


And the jesters, including Biden himself, have retreated into stunned silence.

...

Oh Poor Boo Boo, yes he might be the “Big Guy” and “President 10 Percent,” with millions perhaps hidden in secret bank accounts from China, Ukraine and elsewhere– he might be sad, but he can still unleash the powerful American security forces (CIA, DOJ, FBI, the IRS etc.) on anyone, on a whim.


Including a president.


Including you.


Trump was indicted by Biden’s Department of Justice on the same day the country learned that Biden and his son Hunter Biden were under investigation for reportedly accepting $10 million in bribes to run interference for Ukrainian energy giant Burisma. Joe was Obama’s vice president who focused, as if by coincidence, on being the Obama’s “point man” on China, Ukraine and Russia.


According to that FBI informant from Burisma with the “insurance” recordings, Biden’s Ukrainian benefactors reportedly wanted the prosecutor, who had targeted Burisma, fired. And they paid for it.


Joe Biden took care of things as if he were some Chicago politician, adding pressure on Ukraine, saying $1 billion in U.S. loan guarantees would disappear if the prosecutor was not fired. The Biden Way as the Chicago Way.


“You’re not getting the billion. I’m going to be leaving here in, I think it was about six hours,” Biden bragged on record at a 2018 talk at the council on Foreign Relations. “I looked at them and said, “I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money. Well, son of a bitch. He got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time.”


Add to that the official disinterest in the unequal application of the law from those 30,000 Hillary Clinton emails she caused to be destroyed when they were under Congressional subpoena, to the Russia Collusion hoax, to the suppression of the Hunter Biden laptop story and the orchestrated lies by American Kemalist intelligence bosses that the laptop was Russian disinformation, to Joe Biden pilfering top secret documents AS A SENATOR and keeping them all in his garage with the green Corvette, and more. It would take volumes.


To top it all we’re being led deeper into a proxy war that could go nuclear. We’re led to it by the same decrepit administration that led us into that chaotic and deadly withdrawal from Afghanistan.


And still Trump should have turned over the documents when he was asked to do so. It is a serious indictment. There is an audio tape on which Trump brags boastfully about secrets. How that will play at trial, I don’t know. I do know he should not have done it. It was reckless, thoughtless and boastful, the perfect illustration of his lack of temperament for the job.


But is it a crime?


Is it a crime with former FBI boss James Comey suffering from “memory loss” under oath while smirking at the American people? When Hillary smirks at us, when the entire Democratic Party smirks at decent taxpayers who are mocked and bullied by journalists, or concerned parents characterized by the FBI as possible “domestic terrorists?”


And now the jesters are silent, at least for a while.


We’ve lost the law. We’ve lost our most precious traditions, We are a Banana Republic. We use criminal indictments to get rid of people like any Banana Republic. We traded the American republic that kept us free for centuries because the bureaucrats of our unelected Kemalist administrative state didn’t like the immaturity of a boastful man who dared defeat Hillary Clinton in 2016.


And now even the jesters are afraid.


-30-

BTW, IMO yes, it is a crime from what I've seen thus far. As I said on another thread, more than one thing may be true at the same time.

[icansayit]

What a huge collection of totally Uninformed BULL SHIT.
Like assholes. Everybody has an opinion. And that's all they are. Opinions.

Hate, Ignorance, Stupidity, and Illiteracy has reached it's peak.

Thank God I won't be around when all of the FALSE IDEA'S come due.
While there won't be any place for anybody to hide.

[Kathianne]

What a huge collection of totally Uninformed BULL SHIT.
Like assholes. Everybody has an opinion. And that's all they are. Opinions.

Hate, Ignorance, Stupidity, and Illiteracy has reached it's peak.

Thank God I won't be around when all of the FALSE IDEA'S come due.
While there won't be any place for anybody to hide.

Which part? That Hillary, Joe, and Hunter should be treated the same as Trump?

[gabosaurus]

Where does Hillary Clinton factor in to all this? She was investigated and cleared by two Congressional panels chaired by Republicans. There was and is nothing there. Same with the Joe Biden investigation. Biden admitted guilt and cooperated with investigators. That is opposed to Trump deliberately taking documents, refusing to give them up, hiding them in his home and then lying about it. Not to mention Trump admitting that he has classified documents and showing them to visitors. The cases are a LOT different. Republicans who are beholden to Trump are looking the other way and throwing up smoke screens to avoid having to comments. There is NOTHING remotely similar in the cases. Trump was indicted on 37 very specific charges. Hillary was not indicted. Joe Biden was not indicted. Hunter Biden was not indicted. Obama was not indicted. Only Trump will be on trial. No one else. It is unfortunate that the case can't progress without nut cases like Kari Lake and Marjorie Taylor Greene calling for violence as part of their campaign to be Vice-President. It is unfortunate that the right wing media keeps throwing out smoke screens to detract from the case itself. It is especially unfortunate that Trump sycophants like Lindsay Graham are so desperate that they run out of excuses. It's no wonder that Trump openly admires dictators like Putin and Kim Jong Un, since he so desperately want to be one.

[Kathianne]

Where does Hillary Clinton factor in to all this? She was investigated and cleared by two Congressional panels chaired by Republicans. There was and is nothing there. Same with the Joe Biden investigation. Biden admitted guilt and cooperated with investigators. That is opposed to Trump deliberately taking documents, refusing to give them up, hiding them in his home and then lying about it. Not to mention Trump admitting that he has classified documents and showing them to visitors. The cases are a LOT different. Republicans who are beholden to Trump are looking the other way and throwing up smoke screens to avoid having to comments. There is NOTHING remotely similar in the cases. Trump was indicted on 37 very specific charges. Hillary was not indicted. Joe Biden was not indicted. Hunter Biden was not indicted. Obama was not indicted. Only Trump will be on trial. No one else. It is unfortunate that the case can't progress without nut cases like Kari Lake and Marjorie Taylor Greene calling for violence as part of their campaign to be Vice-President. It is unfortunate that the right wing media keeps throwing out smoke screens to detract from the case itself. It is especially unfortunate that Trump sycophants like Lindsay Graham are so desperate that they run out of excuses. It's no wonder that Trump openly admires dictators like Putin and Kim Jong Un, since he so desperately want to be one.

Not really true. Coney said something to effect of negligent and irresponsible behavior of well seasoned person familiar with documents handling. He then chose to say not criminal in spite of Acts' wording.

The problem is on the Justice or Injustice Department and selective prosecution. The result has been loss of faith of citizens of fairness.

[Gunny]

Where does Hillary Clinton factor in to all this? She was investigated and cleared by two Congressional panels chaired by Republicans. There was and is nothing there. Same with the Joe Biden investigation. Biden admitted guilt and cooperated with investigators. That is opposed to Trump deliberately taking documents, refusing to give them up, hiding them in his home and then lying about it. Not to mention Trump admitting that he has classified documents and showing them to visitors. The cases are a LOT different. Republicans who are beholden to Trump are looking the other way and throwing up smoke screens to avoid having to comments. There is NOTHING remotely similar in the cases. Trump was indicted on 37 very specific charges. Hillary was not indicted. Joe Biden was not indicted. Hunter Biden was not indicted. Obama was not indicted. Only Trump will be on trial. No one else. It is unfortunate that the case can't progress without nut cases like Kari Lake and Marjorie Taylor Greene calling for violence as part of their campaign to be Vice-President. It is unfortunate that the right wing media keeps throwing out smoke screens to detract from the case itself. It is especially unfortunate that Trump sycophants like Lindsay Graham are so desperate that they run out of excuses. It's no wonder that Trump openly admires dictators like Putin and Kim Jong Un, since he so desperately want to be one.
Bullshit and you know it. There are plenty of people rotting in prison for less than Hitlery's unsecure server alone, let alone the slap in the face in general she is to any notion of good and just. Why ANYONE defends that wretched excuse of a human being is beyond me.


Fact: She had an unsecure server in and unsecure location in her private home where she passed classified information electronically. End of story no matter how many political cronies let it slide and you need to get off this lame excuse that definitely omits the facts that the Republican't's still try and pretend to have a modicum of decorum and right or wrong, didn't want to convict a fellow sleezeball politicians at that time, pre-Trump fiasco.

As a professional, I have Zero problem with Trump going down for it. As long as Biden and whoever else goes down for it too. The crime is the crime. Only leftwingtards think it's different when they do it.

[Gunny]

Pretty sure this is why Dershowitz has backed off his initial take:

4 days ago: https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/alan-dershowitz-trump-indictment-pass-richard-nixon-test

Today's letter: https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-strong-indictment-but-is-it-strong-enough-jack-smith-classified-docs-public-opinion-trump-80cd7480?st=s875gpwf6cdg90h&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

I suggest the Republican Party in 1973 bore no resemblance to, nor would it recognize today's batch of fools. Same goes for the Democommies.

[gabosaurus]

Bullshit and you know it. There are plenty of people rotting in prison for less than Hitlery's unsecure server alone, let alone the slap in the face in general she is to any notion of good and just. Why ANYONE defends that wretched excuse of a human being is beyond me. Fact: She had an unsecure server in and unsecure location in her private home where she passed classified information electronically. End of story no matter how many political cronies let it slide and you need to get off this lame excuse that definitely omits the facts that the Republican't's still try and pretend to have a modicum of decorum and right or wrong, didn't want to convict a fellow sleezeball politicians at that time, pre-Trump fiasco. As a professional, I have Zero problem with Trump going down for it. As long as Biden and whoever else goes down for it too. The crime is the crime. Only leftwingtards think it's different when they do it. Your statement reeks of political and personal bias. The fact that you WANTED Hillary Clinton convicted of a crime doesn't mean she was. If you remain angry and vindictive, you should direct that to the Republican chaired commissions that cleared her of wrong doing. Same with Joe Biden. Because Donald Trump made so many wrong moves and shamed Republicans with so many criminal acts, they have found a need to accuse Biden of whatever they can come up with. The fact is that only Trump was indicted. The only alleged crimes that Biden is currently guilty of are those devised by a desperate right wing media cartel that a smokescreen to divert attention from Trump's wrongdoings. I wanted to believe that Trump is a pedophile and rapist, but that hasn't been proven in court yet. Doesn't change my mind though.

[SassyLady]

Your statement reeks of political and personal bias. The fact that you WANTED Hillary Clinton convicted of a crime doesn't mean she was. If you remain angry and vindictive, you should direct that to the Republican chaired commissions that cleared her of wrong doing. Same with Joe Biden. Because Donald Trump made so many wrong moves and shamed Republicans with so many criminal acts, they have found a need to accuse Biden of whatever they can come up with. The fact is that only Trump was indicted. The only alleged crimes that Biden is currently guilty of are those devised by a desperate right wing media cartel that a smokescreen to divert attention from Trump's wrongdoings. I wanted to believe that Trump is a pedophile and rapist, but that hasn't been proven in court yet. Doesn't change my mind though.

:blabla:

[gabosaurus]

There seems to be this prevailing opinion among conservatives that Biden got Trump arrested. In actuality, Trump got Trump arrested. The indictments are very specific. Some Republicans are stating that a former POTUS should not be accused of crimes. Then they turn around and accuse Joe Biden of various crimes. Hypocrites much?

[SassyLady]

Dershowitz on why Trump has Lawyer problem.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/06/2-2/

[SassyLady]

There seems to be this prevailing opinion among conservatives that Biden got Trump arrested. In actuality, Trump got Trump arrested. The indictments are very specific. Some Republicans are stating that a former POTUS should not be accused of crimes. Then they turn around and accuse Joe Biden of various crimes. Hypocrites much?
So, you truly think Biden had nothing to do with Garland ordering Trump be arrested? You really are living in lala land. I had no idea how bad the liberal suck was until you stopped by Gabs.

[Kathianne]

So, you truly think Biden had nothing to do with Garland ordering Trump be arrested? You really are living in lala land. I had no idea how bad the liberal suck was until you stopped by Gabs.

Totally ignores selective investigating and prosecution. I think Trump should be tried on this. That does mean there's been justice done with Clinton or Bidens.

[Gunny]

Totally ignores selective investigating and prosecution. I think Trump should be tried on this. That does mean there's been justice done with Clinton or Bidens.

You mean injustice with Clintons/Bidens?

The obvious selectivity is so loud its deafening. Saw a laundry list of names in the NYT of people who have been put in prison for disclosing/mishandling classified in. The irony is the NYT was so focused on making the case against Trump they either ignorantly didn't realize the case it also made against Clinton/Biden OR more like they purposefully omitted any such reference. Anyone not living under a rock can see the double-standard.

The Republican't's appear more focused on digging up dirt on the Bidens than they are addressing the double standard that should not be allowed to exist.

I'm on the side of prosecuting them all for the same crime. That should be something even the dysfunctional Republicans could rally around.

Bet my bottom dollar all these politicians are instead sitting around thinking/not saying out loud we can't take this too far or I'll get busted too :rolleyes:

[icansayit]

Opinions are just opinions because all of the actual facts are intentionally overlooked, or ignored all together.

But...as I have said before. Opinions are like Assholes. Everybody has one. Which is where most opinions come from.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Opinions are just opinions because all of the actual facts are intentionally overlooked, or ignored all together.

But...as I have said before. Opinions are like Assholes. Everybody has one. Which is where most opinions come from.

And that is taking the broad view my friend. Which dealing with politicians is usually more right then not. --Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

The blatant double standard is in full swing with this. Biden, and Clintons are 100% guilty but not being charged.
The general public that are not complete idiots, see and know the truth of that and they do not like it.
I say what is good for the goose, is good for the gander. Otherwise, it is exactly the way people see it, ""malicious persecution"" -not prosecution.--Tyr

[Gunny]

The blatant double standard is in full swing with this. Biden, and Clintons are 100% guilty but not being charged.
The general public that are not complete idiots, see and know the truth of that and they do not like it.
I say what is good for the goose, is good for the gander. Otherwise, it is exactly the way people see it, ""malicious persecution"" -not prosecution.--TyrExactly right. The double standard is doing not only the people a disservice, but justice as well. Without the double standard, few would be questioning the legitimacy of the charges.

[Gunny]

:rolleyes:

https://www.thecentersquare.com/national/article_916d689e-0eb5-11ee-8532-4b225905a9f6.html

[Gunny]

Evil so loves to work in the dark.

https://www.thecentersquare.com/national/article_183a4ba0-0ec8-11ee-902a-e70a9e87e44f.html