Pelosi Agrees - Censor God From Flag Certificates

[red states rule]

It is sad when the word God cannot be included on US flag certificates. What is next from the left?



U.S. Capitol: 'God' a No-Go on Flag Certificates
Thursday, October 11, 2007

By Major Garrett

WASHINGTON — When 17-year-old Andrew Larochelle of Dayton, Ohio, crafted a plan to send his grandfather the gift of a flag that had flown over the U.S. Capitol, he never thought his sentiments about "God, country and family" would be questioned.

The Eagle Scout was surprised, however, when the personal inscription he requested attached to a flag he purchased from the U.S. Capitol was censored. The teen said he wrote, "In honor of my grandfather Marcel Larochelle, and his dedication and love of God, country and family."

The flag flew on Sept. 11, Marcel Larochelle's birthday. But when Andrew finally received the flag in the mail on Sept. 30, "God" was taken out of his note.

"I was shocked that the word 'God' would be taken off a personal message from my son to his grandfather," Andrew's father, Paul Larochelle, told FOX News.

The family contacted Rep. Michael Turner, R-Ohio, who had sought to fulfill the flag request. Turner requested an explanation for the omission from the Architect of the Capitol, the office responsible for flying American flags momentarily over the Capitol and then sending them to constituents who request them, all for a fee of $9.

Turner said he was told that AoC rules do not allow religious expressions on flag certificates.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has defended the omission made by acting Architect Stephen T. Ayers, and said she has no plans to change the existing rules.

House Republicans, however, have a different take. They say the Capitol has many religious expressions and Congress begins each day with a prayer. They want new rules allowing religious expressions on flag certificates. They also note that the message wasn't written by Congress but by a private citizen to another private citizen.

"This practice, which overturns a longstanding and long cherished congressional tradition, has rightly drawn outrage from the American people, who have grown weary of endless attempts by politicians and bureaucrats to bar the word God and even the most tacit references to faith from our public institutions," House Minority Leader John Boehner wrote in a letter to Pelosi.

Boehner said as speaker, Pelosi can instruct the acting Architect of the Capitol to set aside the written policy of his predecessor and restore the practice of including God's name.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,301054,00.html

[April15]

Many people are catching on that religion and especially GOD are devisive instruments to world co-habitation. That every nation should deleted god from government is a goal for a peaceful coexistence.

[red states rule]

Many people are catching on that religion and especially GOD are devisive instruments to world co-habitation. That every nation should deleted god from government is a goal for a peaceful coexistence.

Update

Capitol Architect Lets 'God' Fly On U.S. Flag Certificates
Thursday, October 11, 2007



WASHINGTON — The Architect of the Capitol, responding to a public outcry, ruled Thursday that, from now on, the word "God" may be inscribed on certificates accompanying flags that have flown over the U.S. Capitol.

Acting Architect Stephen T Ayers said in a statement that the policy of disallowing political and religious statements on flag certificates has been inconsistently applied and does not fulfill the objectives of the office.

"It is inappropriate and beyond the scope of this agency’s responsibilities to censor messages from members," Ayers said.

"The Architect’s role is to certify that flags are appropriately flown over the U.S. Capitol, and any messages on the flag certificates are personal and between a Member of Congress and his or her constituents,” Ayers said.

“The Office of the Architect of the Capitol is a service organization. Flying the flags over the Capitol is an important constituent service for Members of Congress. When one of our services or policies doesn’t effectively serve Members of Congress or the American public, it needs to be
changed immediately,” he added.

The issue gained widespread attention this week after 17-year-old Andrew Larochelle of Dayton, Ohio, inquired to his congressman, Rep. Michael Turner, why the personal inscription he requested to go with his flag was censored.

for the complete article
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,301185,00.html

[Immanuel]

It should never have been done in the first place but I am glad they finally woke up to that fact.

Immie

[red states rule]

It should never have been done in the first place but I am glad they finally woke up to that fact.

Immie

Chalk up another win for the good guys

Still no comment from San Fran Nan

[Abbey Marie]

Chalk up another win for the good guys

Still no comment from San Fran Nan

Haven't you heard? She's too busy "praying" for President Bush. :laugh:

[red states rule]

Haven't you heard? She's too busy "praying" for President Bush. :laugh:

yea, but what is she "praying" for? That is the scary part

[Abbey Marie]

yea, but what is she "praying" for? That is the scary part

I'm fairly certain it involves a doll and some pins. :laugh2:

[red states rule]

I'm fairly certain it involves a doll and some pins. :laugh2:

and she does it for the children (with possibly a dart board)

[retiredman]

as a lifelong congregationalist, this all seems like a tempest in a teapot to me. We are in the midst of a war and congress is all up in arms about flag certificates.

I, for one, do not need to see Christian iconography everywhere I look in order to hold fast to my faith. If I drive by the courthouse and there isn't a monument to the ten commandments on the front lawn, I am not going to suddenly forget what they are. If I drive by the town square during advent and there is not a nativity scene on public land paid for by taxpayers, I am not going to forget the importance of the child born on Christmas.

For me and for the members of MY church, our faith is strong enough to withstand hours on end spent in the public without symbols of that faith at every turn. I don't need my children to pray at school. They pray at home.

I realize that, unlike America when it was in its infancy, there are a whole lot of tax paying citizens who are NOT Christians. Our wonderful land of opportunity beckoned them.... and the poem on the statue of liberty did not say, "give me your tired, your poor CHRISTIANS"....

Christians should keep Jesus in their hearts and their homes and not worry so much about thrusting iconography glorifying Him in the faces of those fellow citizens who may not believe as tehy do.....especially if those symbols are paid for with public funds.

[darin]

you're absolutely missing the point, MFM - this case has NOTHING to do with 'thrusting iconography' in the faces of anyone. Your post is fodder for a different thread.

[REDWHITEBLUE2]

Like there isn't enough proof Liberals are Commies This seals the deal

[retiredman]

you're absolutely missing the point, MFM - this case has NOTHING to do with 'thrusting iconography' in the faces of anyone. Your post is fodder for a different thread.

it is about God in the public square... about God in our government. I do not believe that is the place for Him....

[red states rule]

it is about God in the public square... about God in our government. I do not believe that is the place for Him....

The request for the word God came from a 17 year old kid. The flag and certificate was for his Grandfather

It is not putting God in our government

BTW, when will you demand the House and Senate stop opening every session with a prayer?

[April15]

yea, but what is she "praying" for? That is the scary partThat he will leave office alive!

[darin]

it is about God in the public square... about God in our government. I do not believe that is the place for Him....

you clearly didn't read the story. www.hop.com :)

[red states rule]

you clearly didn't read the story. www.hop.com :)

:lol::lol:

I have to rep you for this one!!!!!!!!!

[diuretic]

God in politics, Allah in politics...soon there'll be no room for politicians. I suppose then they'll all be kicked out and it will be the clergy and the mullahs making the rules.

[red states rule]

God in politics, Allah in politics...soon there'll be no room for politicians. I suppose then they'll all be kicked out and it will be the clergy and the mullahs making the rules.

You must not of read the article either. This has nothing to do with God and the government

[retiredman]

you clearly didn't read the story. www.hop.com :)

you clearly take the phrase "God in the public square" very literally. God in public things... God in public documents.... get it? Why does God need to be there when there are tax payers who do not believe in Him? Why do Christians who DO, need to have public subsidized memorializations to Him?

And why don't you just stop with this silly immature gotcha game you seem to love to play with me all the time, and act your age, assuming you ARE over 14. Just lay off the negative repping and the sniping and talk issues with me and I will do the same. OK?

[retiredman]

You must not of read the article either. This has nothing to do with God and the government

really? Are you suggesting that the certificates that accompany flags flown over the capitol are produced by some private organization?

[red states rule]

you clearly take the phrase "God in the public square" very literally. God in public things... God in public documents.... get it? Why does God need to be there when there are tax payers who do not believe in Him? Why do Christians who DO, need to have public subsidized memorializations to Him?

And why don't you just stop with this silly immature gotcha game you seem to love to play with me all the time, and act your age, assuming you ARE over 14. Just lay off the negative repping and the sniping and talk issues with me and I will do the same. OK?

So how do you buy things since the word God is on our money?

For you to whine about someone else playing the gotcha game, and sniping is a real hoot :lol:

[red states rule]

really? Are you suggesting that the certificates that accompany flags flown over the capitol are produced by some private organization?

The flag is raised over the Capital then lowered. The certificate is written with words requested - there is no endorsement of Religion

[retiredman]

The flag is raised over the Capital then lowered. The certificate is written with words requested - there is no endorsement of Religion


So.. someone could request a certificate that, let's say, expressed their solidarity with NAMBLA, that would OK with you? Or Satan? You would be just as outraged if the capitol architect denied those requests?

[red states rule]

So.. someone could request a certificate that, let's say, expressed their solidarity with NAMBLA, that would OK with you? Or Satan? You would be just as outraged if the capitol architect denied those requests?

So you equate God with NAMBLA and Satan?

[retiredman]

So how do you buy things since the word God is on our money?

For you to whine about someone else playing the gotcha game, and sniping is a real hoot :lol:

I buy things all the time. God on money doesn't bother me. I don't see the need for it, and I can understand why non Christians or Jews might find it a bit offensive.... and I am not whining at all. I am suggesting that dmp and I raise our level of debate. I have requested similar things from you over the months, and you clearly want nothing to do with it.... because, I would guess, there is no canned talking point or one liner that specifically addresses it.

[retiredman]

So you equate God with NAMBLA and Satan?

no. YOU said that it was a certificate and people got to request what they wanted on it. I only asked how far you took that.

[red states rule]

from my link....

Acting Architect Stephen T Ayers said in a statement that the policy of disallowing political and religious statements on flag certificates has been inconsistently applied and does not fulfill the objectives of the office.

"It is inappropriate and beyond the scope of this agency’s responsibilities to censor messages from members," Ayers said.


So much for censoring God

[retiredman]

from my link....

Acting Architect Stephen T Ayers said in a statement that the policy of disallowing political and religious statements on flag certificates has been inconsistently applied and does not fulfill the objectives of the office.

"It is inappropriate and beyond the scope of this agency’s responsibilities to censor messages from members," Ayers said.


So much for censoring God

So...you WOULD be OK if someone wanted to request adulation to Satan on a certificate accompanying the flag?

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[manu1959]

mfm quote removed......

it would appear this is now a non issue....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071011/ap_on_go_co/congress_flag_dispute_3

[actsnoblemartin]

yeah its called communism :dance:, and it killed millions of people

sorry but id rather just go after the real people who prevent us from world peace :laugh2:

Islamic extremists


Many people are catching on that religion and especially GOD are devisive instruments to world co-habitation. That every nation should deleted god from government is a goal for a peaceful coexistence.

[retiredman]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071011/ap_on_go_co/congress_flag_dispute_3

and that link specifically addresses my post....how????

[manu1959]

and that link specifically addresses my post....how????

it would appear this is now a non issue.....

[retiredman]

I would agree.... but my question to RSR stands.

[manu1959]

I would agree.... but my question to RSR stands.

fair enough.....would you be cool with satan flags?

[retiredman]

fair enough.....would you be cool with satan flags?

of course not. But if this isn't about government's tacit acknowlegement of Christianity but merely putting whatever words the recipient wants on his certificate, then why not? If they want that on there.... to deny them would be censorship, right? Or is only censorship when YOUR diety is involved?

[diuretic]

fair enough.....would you be cool with satan flags?

From memory I think Arlington has allowed a Wiccan headstone.

[manu1959]

of course not. But if this isn't about government's tacit acknowlegement of Christianity but merely putting whatever words the recipient wants on his certificate, then why not? If they want that on there.... to deny them would be censorship, right? Or is only censorship when YOUR diety is involved?

satan is a god of sorts so the word god sort of covers him....more likely her:poke:

[red states rule]

yeah its called communism :dance:, and it killed millions of people

sorry but id rather just go after the real people who prevent us from world peace :laugh2:

Islamic extremists

secularists do go over the top in their zeal to remove all references of God from the public view

[darin]

So.. someone could request a certificate that, let's say, expressed their solidarity with NAMBLA, that would OK with you? Or Satan? You would be just as outraged if the capitol architect denied those requests?

Is that your way of saying "Yup -you're right. I was WAY off-base when I claimed or insinuated this was about keeping the Gov't from shoving religion on people?"

That'd be PRETTY close to an apology. :D Maybe Hell has frozen over? :)

[diuretic]

Is that your way of saying "Yup -you're right. I was WAY off-base when I claimed or insinuated this was about keeping the Gov't from shoving religion on people?"

That'd be PRETTY close to an apology. :D Maybe Hell has frozen over? :)

Tonight - at 9, NHL from HLL :laugh2:

[retiredman]

satan is a god of sorts so the word god sort of covers him....more likely her:poke:

Amen brother!

[mrg666]

wasnt satan the arch angel cast down by god ?
no link ref bible

[retiredman]

wasnt satan the arch angel cast down by god ?
no link ref bible

indeed he was

[mrg666]

hey
at last we agree
:clap:

[darin]

Well..specifically...it's Lucifer - who is the Satan or whatever. :)

[SpidermanTUba]

It is sad when the word God cannot be included on US flag certificates. What is next from the left?



U.S. Capitol: 'God' a No-Go on Flag Certificates
Thursday, October 11, 2007

By Major Garrett

WASHINGTON — When 17-year-old Andrew Larochelle of Dayton, Ohio, crafted a plan to send his grandfather the gift of a flag that had flown over the U.S. Capitol, he never thought his sentiments about "God, country and family" would be questioned.

The Eagle Scout was surprised, however, when the personal inscription he requested attached to a flag he purchased from the U.S. Capitol was censored. The teen said he wrote, "In honor of my grandfather Marcel Larochelle, and his dedication and love of God, country and family."

The flag flew on Sept. 11, Marcel Larochelle's birthday. But when Andrew finally received the flag in the mail on Sept. 30, "God" was taken out of his note.

"I was shocked that the word 'God' would be taken off a personal message from my son to his grandfather," Andrew's father, Paul Larochelle, told FOX News.

The family contacted Rep. Michael Turner, R-Ohio, who had sought to fulfill the flag request. Turner requested an explanation for the omission from the Architect of the Capitol, the office responsible for flying American flags momentarily over the Capitol and then sending them to constituents who request them, all for a fee of $9.

Turner said he was told that AoC rules do not allow religious expressions on flag certificates.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has defended the omission made by acting Architect Stephen T. Ayers, and said she has no plans to change the existing rules.

House Republicans, however, have a different take. They say the Capitol has many religious expressions and Congress begins each day with a prayer. They want new rules allowing religious expressions on flag certificates. They also note that the message wasn't written by Congress but by a private citizen to another private citizen.

"This practice, which overturns a longstanding and long cherished congressional tradition, has rightly drawn outrage from the American people, who have grown weary of endless attempts by politicians and bureaucrats to bar the word God and even the most tacit references to faith from our public institutions," House Minority Leader John Boehner wrote in a letter to Pelosi.

Boehner said as speaker, Pelosi can instruct the acting Architect of the Capitol to set aside the written policy of his predecessor and restore the practice of including God's name.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,301054,00.html




I'm fine with COngress not beginning each day with a prayer.

[JackDaniels]

I'm fine with COngress not beginning each day with a prayer.

So am I -- but if they do decide to start the day with a prayer, I could honestly care less.

[theHawk]

What the hell does a flag inscription have to do with "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"? Is making an inscription on a flag equivlant to Congress making a law respecting an establishment of religion? It sounds more like they are prohibiting the free exercise thereof....

[darin]

It seems to have been chicken-shit Bureaucrats scared of a lawsuit.

[retiredman]

secularists do go over the top in their zeal to remove all references of God from the public view
that is your opinion.... but can you explain to me how references to God in the public view and on the taxpayer's nickel make the world a better place? Can you explain to me why a Christian would need to see crosses and nativity scenes and ten commandments tablets - or have "under God" be a part of the pledge of allegiance - in order for them to maintain their faith in the risen Jesus?

[darin]

that's fodder for a different thread

[Missileman]

What the hell does a flag inscription have to do with "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"? Is making an inscription on a flag equivlant to Congress making a law respecting an establishment of religion? It sounds more like they are prohibiting the free exercise thereof....

I agree. This appears to be the whim of a misguided individual.

[Guernicaa]

The Eagle Scout was surprised, however, when the personal inscription he requested attached to a flag he purchased from the U.S. Capitol was censored. The teen said he wrote, "In honor of my grandfather Marcel Larochelle, and his dedication and love of God, country and family."
Would somebody please explain to me how dedicating your life to killing other human beings can be equated to God?...

[darin]

Would somebody please explain to me how dedicating your life to killing other human beings can be equated to God?...

Perhaps if you'd be so bold as to explain your post?

[Guernicaa]

Perhaps if you'd be so bold as to explain your post?
Sure thing---

In this quote right here:

The Eagle Scout was surprised, however, when the personal inscription he requested attached to a flag he purchased from the U.S. Capitol was censored. The teen said he wrote, "In honor of my grandfather Marcel Larochelle, and his dedication and love of God, country and family."
I'm pretty sure the "dedication (to country)" part was a way of saying "he was in the military". There are a lot of "dedicated" people to the country. It's likely that common "patriots" won’t get flags that special unless they have some type of "military honor" or whatever you want to call it.

Therefore, I don't understand how you can equate "dedication (to god)" and "dedication (to being in the military)" in the same sentence.

If you "dedicate" yourself to the military you "dedicate" youself to the killing of other human beings for whatever the reason may be. I just don't understand how your going to put that in the same line with "God".

[darin]

Sure thing---

In this quote right here:

I'm pretty sure the "dedication (to country)" part was a way of saying "he was in the military". There are a lot of "dedicated" people to the country. It's likely that common "patriots" won’t get flags that special unless they have some type of "military honor" or whatever you want to call it.

Therefore, I don't understand how you can equate "dedication (to god)" and "dedication (to being in the military)" in the same sentence.

If you "dedicate" yourself to the military you "dedicate" youself to the killing of other human beings for whatever the reason may be. I just don't understand how your going to put that in the same line with "God".

Your ignorance betrays your youth. I wonder sometimes if you make up this off-the-wall bullshit just for shock value?

[Gunny]

Many people are catching on that religion and especially GOD are devisive instruments to world co-habitation. That every nation should deleted god from government is a goal for a peaceful coexistence.

Did you miss the part where it was from one private citizen to another? Congress has NO right to censor that.

The devisive elsement, if you want to point a finger, is the element insistent on REMOVING God ffrom any-and-everything, and attempting to ostricize those who do not.

This is religious descrimination, plain and simple.

[Missileman]

If you "dedicate" yourself to the military you "dedicate" youself to the killing of other human beings for whatever the reason may be. I just don't understand how your going to put that in the same line with "God".

Serving in the military is dedicating yourself to the protection of life, not taking it.

[SpidermanTUba]

What the hell does a flag inscription have to do with "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"? Is making an inscription on a flag equivlant to Congress making a law respecting an establishment of religion? It sounds more like they are prohibiting the free exercise thereof....

How is anyone keeping him from practicing his religion? I wasn't aware than in order to freely practice my religion I need the architect of the capitol to issue me a certificate.

[red states rule]

Sure thing---

In this quote right here:

I'm pretty sure the "dedication (to country)" part was a way of saying "he was in the military". There are a lot of "dedicated" people to the country. It's likely that common "patriots" won’t get flags that special unless they have some type of "military honor" or whatever you want to call it.

Therefore, I don't understand how you can equate "dedication (to god)" and "dedication (to being in the military)" in the same sentence.

If you "dedicate" yourself to the military you "dedicate" youself to the killing of other human beings for whatever the reason may be. I just don't understand how your going to put that in the same line with "God".



libs no longer try to hide their contempt for the US military

[actsnoblemartin]

its very simple, if people werent willing to kill other people, slaves would never have been freed. The holocaust never would have ended. And darfur will go on forrever.

You know, apparently you know nothing about judaism, but it does say, and even in christianity, there is a season, and time to kill.

just ask ted kennedy


Sure thing---

In this quote right here:

I'm pretty sure the "dedication (to country)" part was a way of saying "he was in the military". There are a lot of "dedicated" people to the country. It's likely that common "patriots" won’t get flags that special unless they have some type of "military honor" or whatever you want to call it.

Therefore, I don't understand how you can equate "dedication (to god)" and "dedication (to being in the military)" in the same sentence.

If you "dedicate" yourself to the military you "dedicate" youself to the killing of other human beings for whatever the reason may be. I just don't understand how your going to put that in the same line with "God".

[actsnoblemartin]

dont challenge his (brainwashed liberal) talking points, or he'll annoy us with more.

:lol:


Serving in the military is dedicating yourself to the protection of life, not taking it.

[red states rule]

dont challenge his (brainwashed liberal) talking points, or he'll annoy us with more.

:lol:

Lib have a long history of smearing the troops - yet they calim they support them

[actsnoblemartin]

they spit on the them in the 60's and now they protest at walter reed.

If they support the troops, i support nazi's

before my liberal friends get their panties in a wad, liberals who engage in bad behavior are evil, those who dont, but disgree with the war are fine.


Lib have a long history of smearing the troops - yet they calim they support them

[diuretic]

Killing by the military is merely a means to an end, it's not an end in itself. Therefore someone in the military hasn't dedicated their life to killing, but to serving their country and being prepared to lay their life down for their country. I'm not into fetish worship about the military but let's be fair about this.

[red states rule]

Killing by the military is merely a means to an end, it's not an end in itself. Therefore someone in the military hasn't dedicated their life to killing, but to serving their country and being prepared to lay their life down for their country. I'm not into fetish worship about the military but let's be fair about this.

The US military have liberated more people and more countries then any other nation on Earth

[diuretic]

The US military have liberated more people and more countries then any other nation on Earth

With all due respect it's boastful statements like that that irritate people. The US military has performed its duty as directed by its government. Trying to cloak military duty in altruism (I'm not referring to the work done by military personnel in disaster relief such as in the SE Asian tsunami, that's great work but it's not the primary role of the military). The US military, in keeping with every other military throughout history, has invaded, occupied, killed. No better, no worse. It's the job that has to be done by any military.

[actsnoblemartin]

exactly, how do the libbies think people are saved from genocide, the peace pipe?


The US military have liberated more people and more countries then any other nation on Earth

[red states rule]

exactly, how do the libbies think people are saved from genocide, the peace pipe?

Some on the left thinks hugs and kisses will melt our enemies bombs and bullets

[Immanuel]

Christians should keep Jesus in their hearts and their homes and not worry so much about thrusting iconography glorifying Him in the faces of those fellow citizens who may not believe as tehy do.....especially if those symbols are paid for with public funds.

This certificate was going to the purchaser's father. I would assume that means it will be displayed in the home of this father. It was not going to be displayed in any public forum. For the government to censor God from the message is nothing short of incredulous.

Immie

[bullypulpit]

Many people are catching on that religion and especially GOD are devisive instruments to world co-habitation. That every nation should deleted god from government is a goal for a peaceful coexistence.

Woulda repped you, gotta spread some more joy first.