View Full Version : DeSantis calls Russia-Ukraine war a ‘territorial dispute,’ questions US involvement
Gunny
03-14-2023, 10:30 AM
I disagree with DeSantis where checking Russian aggression is concerned. He might have had a point in the immediate aftermath of WWII/beginning of the Cold War, but there's too much water under that bridge to just suddenly try and take it all back. Especially since we have been the stalwart geopolitical instigator from that time to this. Realigning responsibility takes time. Pulling the rug out is inviting disaster.
On the other hand, I completely disagree with Biden/Dem's blank check policy. Especially since Biden and cronies are robbing our stores tou supply Ukraine while not resupplying them. That too is inviting disaster.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/3899201-desantis-protecting-ukraine-not-one-of-americas-vital-national-interests/
I disagree with DeSantis where checking Russian aggression is concerned. He might have had a point in the immediate aftermath of WWII/beginning of the Cold War, but there's too much water under that bridge to just suddenly try and take it all back. Especially since we have been the stalwart geopolitical instigator from that time to this. Realigning responsibility takes time. Pulling the rug out is inviting disaster.
On the other hand, I completely disagree with Biden/Dem's blank check policy. Especially since Biden and cronies are robbing our stores tou supply Ukraine while not resupplying them. That too is inviting disaster.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/3899201-desantis-protecting-ukraine-not-one-of-americas-vital-national-interests/
Desantis is actually totally correct on this one.
this war is fucking stupid as fucktards.
Gunny
03-23-2023, 07:33 PM
Desantis is actually totally correct on this one.
this war is fucking stupid as fucktards.Brilliant response:rolleyes:
Brilliant response:rolleyes:
the truth is often simple.
look into it, hawk.
Gunny
03-24-2023, 07:16 AM
the truth is often simple.
look into it, hawk.Straight up: if you are going to continue with your personal insults against those who don't swallow the party line you have been programmed to parrot, you aren't long for this board.
Hawk? :laugh: One thing you have proven thus far is that you spent ZERO time reading this board and getting a feel for it and it members or you wouldn't post such silly-ass trash at me. For instance, an informed individual that did his/her homework -- could be as simple as reading the rules BEFORE checking the "agree" box -- that individual would know there is a subforum in place for nothing more than people displaying the manners you have so far to rant away to their little heart's content.
revelarts
03-24-2023, 05:36 PM
Even Bill Gates knows that Ukraine ain't no democracy.
"the most corrupt gov't in the world" is how it's been listed in the past. Maybe the reason why Hunter B was there before the war?
All the lines used to promote this (proxy) war are based in layers of BS.
(as has been the case since about 1950?)
https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1630213714417729536/vid/1280x720/v58JpSWUzPmzGazR.mp4?tag=16 (https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1630213714417729536/vid/1280x720/v58JpSWUzPmzGazR.mp4?tag=16)
https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1630213714417729536/vid/1280x720/v58JpSWUzPmzGazR.mp4?tag=16
revelarts
03-24-2023, 07:20 PM
https://covertactionmagazine.com/
https://i0.wp.com/covertactionmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/https-www-wsws-org-asset-4dda9b76-f63a-479c-854f.jpeg?resize=696%2C391&ssl=1
How Zelensky was Prevented From Making Peace in the Donbas
https://covertactionmagazine.com/2023/03/24/how-zelensky-was-prevented-from-making-peace-in-the-donbas/
Straight up: if you are going to continue with your personal insults against those who don't swallow the party line you have been programmed to parrot, you aren't long for this board.
Hawk? :laugh: One thing you have proven thus far is that you spent ZERO time reading this board and getting a feel for it and it members or you wouldn't post such silly-ass trash at me. For instance, an informed individual that did his/her homework -- could be as simple as reading the rules BEFORE checking the "agree" box -- that individual would know there is a subforum in place for nothing more than people displaying the manners you have so far to rant away to their little heart's content.
Ukraine is a dum dum war, caused by us deep state nazi tards..
BoogyMan
03-24-2023, 09:47 PM
I believe our problem is that there is no good answer to what is going on. The Biden administration is as corrupt as the day is long and has been embroiled in the corruption in Ukraine for over a decade, Ukraine itself has been a dumping ground for the trash ideas of the world including some of the worst the worlds cybercriminal trash has to offer, and Russia - well, there is just nothing at all positive to say there.
The inner isolationist in me wants us to mind our own business and stop pushing the world closer to a war our country is arguably not ready to take a lead in fighting, and the historian in me knows that if Putin is allowed to run amok we will be at war no matter what we do. There are no good choices to be made IMHO.
I disagree with DeSantis where checking Russian aggression is concerned. He might have had a point in the immediate aftermath of WWII/beginning of the Cold War, but there's too much water under that bridge to just suddenly try and take it all back. Especially since we have been the stalwart geopolitical instigator from that time to this. Realigning responsibility takes time. Pulling the rug out is inviting disaster.
On the other hand, I completely disagree with Biden/Dem's blank check policy. Especially since Biden and cronies are robbing our stores tou supply Ukraine while not resupplying them. That too is inviting disaster.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/3899201-desantis-protecting-ukraine-not-one-of-americas-vital-national-interests/
Black Diamond
03-25-2023, 01:10 AM
Straight up: if you are going to continue with your personal insults against those who don't swallow the party line you have been programmed to parrot, you aren't long for this board.
Hawk? :laugh: One thing you have proven thus far is that you spent ZERO time reading this board and getting a feel for it and it members or you wouldn't post such silly-ass trash at me. For instance, an informed individual that did his/her homework -- could be as simple as reading the rules BEFORE checking the "agree" box -- that individual would know there is a subforum in place for nothing more than people displaying the manners you have so far to rant away to their little heart's content.
Interesting how isolationism became the party line all of a sudden. I guess when inflation started kicking Americans in the face they got tired of hearing about billions going to Ukraine. And it's election season again.
SassyLady
03-25-2023, 02:48 AM
This war has deleted our resources to the point it will be hard to defend against China if it decides to move on us. That's why it shouldn't be our war.
Interesting how isolationism became the party line all of a sudden. I guess when inflation started kicking Americans in the face they got tired of hearing about billions going to Ukraine. And it's election season again.
protectionism is smart.
globalization is dum dum sauce.
Gunny
03-25-2023, 02:38 PM
I believe our problem is that there is no good answer to what is going on. The Biden administration is as corrupt as the day is long and has been embroiled in the corruption in Ukraine for over a decade, Ukraine itself has been a dumping ground for the trash ideas of the world including some of the worst the worlds cybercriminal trash has to offer, and Russia - well, there is just nothing at all positive to say there.
The inner isolationist in me wants us to mind our own business and stop pushing the world closer to a war our country is arguably not ready to take a lead in fighting, and the historian in me knows that if Putin is allowed to run amok we will be at war no matter what we do. There are no good choices to be made IMHO.Agreed.
Our "choice" was given away a century ago by Woodrow Wilson involving us in European politics/Europe's fate. WWII and the Cold War catapulted us into the leadership position. Our position in World leadership reflects what our society has become. We want to be top dog and called leader, but none of the responsibility that goes with leadership aka "have our cake and eat it too". It doesn't work.
Putin is the greater threat. What those who don't want to support Ukraine refuse to acknowledge as inconvenient truth is Putin is going to do what he's doing regardless. Obviously. So who's next? Poland? One of the Baltic States? My bet's on Finland since that POS Erdogan has made sure to block its entry into NATO. It'll be the next Ukraine.
Not to mention the US backing out of its NATO commitment will be a green light to Pooh. We won't stay the course. As usual:rolleyes: Paper tiger.
From MY front porch, Ukraine is more of democracy than the US currently is. Since it has become more than we can hope for anymore, might as well support those still willing to man the damned line and die for it.
Black Diamond
03-25-2023, 03:00 PM
protectionism is smart.
globalization is dum dum sauce.
People might take you more seriously if you didn't come off like a troll and use simple language.
Gunny
03-25-2023, 03:17 PM
This war has deleted our resources to the point it will be hard to defend against China if it decides to move on us. That's why it shouldn't be our war.Incorrect answer.
The Moron occupying the WH has deleted our stores to the point that it would be hard to defend against China with or without the Ukraine-Russia war.
People might take you more seriously if you didn't come off like a troll and use simple language.
simple language is best.
SassyLady
03-26-2023, 01:55 AM
Incorrect answer.
The Moron occupying the WH has deleted our stores to the point that it would be hard to defend against China with or without the Ukraine-Russia war.
How is it incorrect? Are you stating the resources we've sent over to Ukraine would not have been better kept here?
Agreed.
Our "choice" was given away a century ago by Woodrow Wilson involving us in European politics/Europe's fate. WWII and the Cold War catapulted us into the leadership position. Our position in World leadership reflects what our society has become. We want to be top dog and called leader, but none of the responsibility that goes with leadership aka "have our cake and eat it too". It doesn't work.
Putin is the greater threat. What those who don't want to support Ukraine refuse to acknowledge as inconvenient truth is Putin is going to do what he's doing regardless. Obviously. So who's next? Poland? One of the Baltic States? My bet's on Finland since that POS Erdogan has made sure to block its entry into NATO. It'll be the next Ukraine.
Not to mention the US backing out of its NATO commitment will be a green light to Pooh. We won't stay the course. As usual:rolleyes: Paper tiger.
From MY front porch, Ukraine is more of democracy than the US currently is. Since it has become more than we can hope for anymore, might as well support those still willing to man the damned line and die for it.
bullshit.
we always have a choice.
there is no fate.
there is no "inevitable".
this is brainwashed dum dum sauce.
BoogyMan
03-26-2023, 02:15 PM
Hold on. You don't have to agree with anyone here or everyone here or anything said at all. I disagree with a lot of the things that get posted, but the difference is, that we can do so with a bit of understanding and try to talk about those differences and make an effort to understand each other.
Take a breath and think about bringing your best defense of a position to the table for discussion. This kind of rhetoric surely isn't the best you've got, right?
bullshit.
we always have a choice.
there is no fate.
there is no "inevitable".
this is brainwashed dum dum sauce.
Hold on. You don't have to agree with anyone here or everyone here or anything said at all. I disagree with a lot of the things that get posted, but the difference is, that we can do so with a bit of understanding and try to talk about those differences and make an effort to understand each other.
Take a breath and think about bringing your best defense of a position to the table for discussion. This kind of rhetoric surely isn't the best you've got, right?
we always have a choice.
there is no fate.
there is no "inevitable".
this is brainwashed dum dum sauce.
Black Diamond
03-26-2023, 04:17 PM
Hold on. You don't have to agree with anyone here or everyone here or anything said at all. I disagree with a lot of the things that get posted, but the difference is, that we can do so with a bit of understanding and try to talk about those differences and make an effort to understand each other.
Take a breath and think about bringing your best defense of a position to the table for discussion. This kind of rhetoric surely isn't the best you've got, right?
He's pure troll.
fj1200
03-26-2023, 10:33 PM
protectionism is smart.
globalization is dum dum sauce.
The 1930s disagree.
Gunny
03-27-2023, 10:18 AM
bullshit.
we always have a choice.
there is no fate.
there is no "inevitable".
this is brainwashed dum dum sauce.With choice comes responsibility. When you figure out how to write the rules, let me know, I have some input for you to consider.
Meantime, Man just keeps repeating history over and over. That is fact; which, if not weighed into "choice", leads to repeating history.
When one chooses to play proverbial ostrich, one removes choice from one's arsenal and leaves it to someone else's.
With choice comes responsibility. When you figure out how to write the rules, let me know, I have some input for you to consider.
Meantime, Man just keeps repeating history over and over. That is fact; which, if not weighed into "choice", leads to repeating history.
When one chooses to play proverbial ostrich, one removes choice from one's arsenal and leaves it to someone else's.
you're a brainwashed globalist imbecile.
there is no fate. you've been mind-fucked. dum dum.
jimnyc
03-27-2023, 02:34 PM
you're a brainwashed globalist imbecile.
there is no fate. you've been mind-fucked. dum dum.
Now why do you wanna go and mess with Gunny? I know you remember him from the old'n USMB days! And being you know him, recall him, I'm pretty confident that you know he ain't no dumb person, nor brainwashed.
Don't go and purposely :poke: at Gunny. Not nice to wanna make the local ornery sheriff angry. I did it once and he kicked me off my own board!
And if anyone is a dum dum here - that would be me!! :coffee: Years and years of :420: and doing my best impressions of Willie Nelson and Snoop Dogg, if they were mixed into one.
revelarts
03-27-2023, 02:42 PM
CNN report from 2014 showing how Ukrainians leaders/president bombed civilians in Donbetsk region of Ukrainian.
UKRAINE: DONETSK CITIZENS CRIPPLED BY WAR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fsMqYqHnN0
"for Democracy" right?
revelarts
03-27-2023, 02:59 PM
More MSM etc News from before the Russian invasion ,
worth watching for some perspective.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTY4s8sMMPM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZvXXw_Q7FI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_gTtbb6BJs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p84KzkdKZb4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wetleAB1XmY
Gunny
03-27-2023, 04:19 PM
More MSM etc News from before the Russian invasion ,
worth watching for some perspective.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTY4s8sMMPM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZvXXw_Q7FI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_gTtbb6BJs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p84KzkdKZb4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wetleAB1XmYYou can always wish bad people away, Rev. Look how many times it's worked:rolleyes:
Gunny
03-27-2023, 04:36 PM
you're a brainwashed globalist imbecile.
there is no fate. you've been mind-fucked. dum dum.Mathematical probability vs your wishful thinking. Guess you told me :laugh:
revelarts
03-27-2023, 04:57 PM
You can always wish bad people away, Rev. Look how many times it's worked:rolleyes:
'bad people'?
Do you mean the corrupt Ukrainian leadership who were killing their own people for years?
or the Neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian army?
or Putin/theRussians who invaded?
or the U.S., NATO and EU (WEF, MilitaryIComplex) who've long fed off the corruption & helped instigate war and are trying to prolong it?
Gunny
03-27-2023, 05:33 PM
'bad people'?
Do you mean the corrupt Ukrainian leadership who were killing their own people for years?
or the Neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian army?
or Putin/theRussians who invaded?
or the U.S., NATO and EU (WEF, MilitaryIComplex) who've long fed off the corruption & helped instigate war and are trying to prolong it?
:rolleyes:
You're just determined to make the good guys into bad guys regardless how fast and loose you have to play with the truth. Freedom's for everyone, not just you. The current Ukrainian government was chosen by the people and the corrupt, pro-Russian one given the boot. More than I can say for us.
revelarts
03-27-2023, 08:07 PM
:rolleyes:
You're just determined to make the good guys into bad guys regardless how fast and loose you have to play with the truth. Freedom's for everyone, not just you. The current Ukrainian government was chosen by the people and the corrupt, pro-Russian one given the boot. More than I can say for us.
I can't pretend to see good guys. or democracy or "freedom" in this sad situation. sorry. No I can't.
Was hunter Biden a good guy as member of the the Ukrainian oil company giving 10% to the 'big guy'?
Journalist in Ukraine banned?
Price of freedom?
Tens of thousands of Ukrainians killed by the US backed Ukrainian government?
"freedom" bombing of your own civilians for 7 years.
Bioweapon labs on the enemies boarder for the good guys?
Freedom's Bioweapons Labs??
the "free" Ukrainian government not allowed to make peace because the U.S. says so?
sorry i can't unsee the crap you want to me to ignore.
I don't wear the same glasses you do.
I don't see a Russian "victory" as the end all "freedoms" in life for Ukrainians.
much less an eminent threat to NATO & world peace.
Aren't you tired of the new cries for freedom & the new foreign doomsday scenarios they feed us ever 3-7 years.
Terrorist! are going to kill us all and "take our freedom!"
Saddam! is going to kill us all and "take our freedom!"
Iran! is going to kill us all and "take our 'freedom!"
Covid! is going to kill us all and unless we "take your 'freedom!"
Putin! is going to kill us all and "take our 'freedom!"
China! is going to kill us all and "take our 'freedom!"
Or take someones freedoms (we say we care about that we had no clue about last week) if we don't... fill in the blank check of U.S. time treasure & souls.
But Scratch the surface and we see that oil/resources, money & power/empire are the main drivers. Not "freedom".
Because there are millions of people in various countries, like Saudi Arabia & Yemen, and any number of South American dictatorships of the past and present (Shah in Iran, even Saddam) who somehow we never demanded 'freedom' for the people,
when those freedom-less regimens were friendly to U.S. powers and corporations.
can you see that?
BoogyMan
03-27-2023, 08:40 PM
Smells like it.
He's pure troll.
Gunny
03-28-2023, 07:50 AM
I can't pretend to see good guys. or democracy or "freedom" in this sad situation. sorry. No I can't.
Was hunter Biden a good guy as member of the the Ukrainian oil company giving 10% to the 'big guy'?
Journalist in Ukraine banned?
Price of freedom?
Tens of thousands of Ukrainians killed by the US backed Ukrainian government?
"freedom" bombing of your own civilians for 7 years.
Bioweapon labs on the enemies boarder for the good guys?
Freedom's Bioweapons Labs??
the "free" Ukrainian government not allowed to make peace because the U.S. says so?
sorry i can't unsee the crap you want to me to ignore.
I don't wear the same glasses you do.
I don't see a Russian "victory" as the end all "freedoms" in life for Ukrainians.
much less an eminent threat to NATO & world peace.
Aren't you tired of the new cries for freedom & the new foreign doomsday scenarios they feed us ever 3-7 years.
Terrorist! are going to kill us all and "take our freedom!"
Saddam! is going to kill us all and "take our freedom!"
Iran! is going to kill us all and "take our 'freedom!"
Covid! is going to kill us all and unless we "take your 'freedom!"
Putin! is going to kill us all and "take our 'freedom!"
China! is going to kill us all and "take our 'freedom!"
Or take someones freedoms (we say we care about that we had no clue about last week) if we don't... fill in the blank check of U.S. time treasure & souls.
But Scratch the surface and we see that oil/resources, money & power/empire are the main drivers. Not "freedom".
Because there are millions of people in various countries, like Saudi Arabia & Yemen, and any number of South American dictatorships of the past and present (Shah in Iran, even Saddam) who somehow we never demanded 'freedom' for the people,
when those freedom-less regimens were friendly to U.S. powers and corporations.
can you see that?And never once in all your America-bashing blather do you EVER point out anything good America has accomplished, nor the fact that there is STILL more opportunity here than anywhere else.
In case you've missed most of my posts for the past however many years, I "see that" more clearly and objectively than you. You blow the bad way out of proportion, and again, minimize, if mention at all, any good. You screech to High Heaven when you feel YOUR inalienable "Rights" are in any way so much as questioned; yet, could care less about the Rights of others.
You demand perfection according to your standard from the US while playing propaganda minister for a commie thug. "Bout says it all.
You have the Rights others have bled and died for and you have no appreciation for the cost of freedom. It isn't just for you, nor just because you say so. Your generation is WAY too narcissistic for me. Other people's freedom is not yours to give nor take, as it suits you, and is no less important than yours.
CHicks dig me.
because I rarely wear underwear, and when i do its usually something unusual.
revelarts
03-28-2023, 11:20 AM
And never once in all your America-bashing blather do you EVER point out anything good America has accomplished, nor the fact that there is STILL more opportunity here than anywhere else.
In case you've missed most of my posts for the past however many years, I "see that" more clearly and objectively than you. You blow the bad way out of proportion, and again, minimize, if mention at all, any good. You screech to High Heaven when you feel YOUR inalienable "Rights" are in any way so much as questioned; yet, could care less about the Rights of others.
You demand perfection according to your standard from the US while playing propaganda minister for a commie thug. "Bout says it all.
You have the Rights others have bled and died for and you have no appreciation for the cost of freedom. It isn't just for you, nor just because you say so. Your generation is WAY too narcissistic for me. Other people's freedom is not yours to give nor take, as it suits you, and is no less important than yours.
unh huh.
Ok
A few simply questions for you.
let say you are 100% right in your POV about fighting for freedom.
Do you think the U.S. should be the worlds "freedom" police?
("freedom" by your totally realistic and not dream world standard.)
Which other countries around the world "realistically" need our near unlimited financial and military support... up to the edge of nuclear war?
Are only corrupt imperfect countries with "democracies" who are attacked the ones who deserve the U.S. freedom police & loan?
Or do countries who are simply under unfree regimens ALSO need/get the U.S. freedom police and loan system you're promoting?
Or do we have to wait for the them to BECOME democracies before we help?
And maybe I should ask, is nuclear war what we should do to secure freedom for the rest of the world?
I'm too narcissistic to have clear perspective or appreciation for the cost of freedom... Other people's freedom.
Please give me the clear and objective standard that you think we need to be working with.
unh huh.
Ok
A few simply questions for you.
let say you are 100% right in your POV about fighting for freedom.
Do you think the U.S. should be the worlds "freedom" police?
("freedom" by your totally realistic and not dream world standard.)
Which other countries around the world "realistically" need our near unlimited financial and military support... up to the edge of nuclear war?
Are only corrupt imperfect countries with "democracies" who are attacked who deserve the freedom police & loan?
Or do countries who are simply under unfree regimens that need the freedom police and loan system you're promoting?
Or do we have to wait for the mthe oBECOME demcracies before we help.
give me a standard that you think we need to be working with?
boomers cannot change bro.
revelarts
03-28-2023, 11:58 AM
boomers cannot change bro.
HA,Look man, I'm a boomer too. I'm just not as old as great great granpa Gunny.
But hopefully everyone, no matter what so-called generation, can change and grow.
when they get information that gives a bigger clearer picture. (or more narcissistic picture i guess)
(And thankfully Seems the covid BSery and Trump's treatment shook a lot people off some of the old 'gov't is good' thinking)
HA,Look man, I'm a boomer too. I'm just not as old as great great granpa Gunny.
But hopefully everyone, no matter what so-called generation, can change and grow.
when they get information that gives a bigger clearer picture. (or more narcissistic picture i guess)
(And thankfully Seems the covid BSery and Trump's treatment shook a lot people off some of the old 'gov't is good' thinking)
the hindu caste system had it right.
spiritual people should run the society, not the merchant/warrior industrial complex.
Gunny
03-29-2023, 08:31 AM
unh huh.
Ok
A few simply questions for you.
let say you are 100% right in your POV about fighting for freedom.
Do you think the U.S. should be the worlds "freedom" police?
("freedom" by your totally realistic and not dream world standard.)
Which other countries around the world "realistically" need our near unlimited financial and military support... up to the edge of nuclear war?
Are only corrupt imperfect countries with "democracies" who are attacked the ones who deserve the U.S. freedom police & loan?
Or do countries who are simply under unfree regimens ALSO need/get the U.S. freedom police and loan system you're promoting?
Or do we have to wait for the them to BECOME democracies before we help?
And maybe I should ask, is nuclear war what we should do to secure freedom for the rest of the world?
I'm too narcissistic to have clear perspective or appreciation for the cost of freedom... Other people's freedom.
Please give me the clear and objective standard that you think we need to be working with.We've done this before. How I think it should be has little to do with how it is. I have always stood up to bullies because it is the only way to handle them. Not standing up to them only empowers them to bully more and take more.
You expect some kind of magical perfection -- again according to what you not necessarily anyone else believes to be "perfection"' Your ideas of right and wrong are too full of contradictions/imperfections for my taste. There's no fairness nor equality. Just your opinion.
I believe in lending a helping hand to those in need, and defending from evil assholes that cannot defend themselves, when and where I can and that certainly is not my opinion. There's whole Book on the subject.
revelarts
03-29-2023, 12:12 PM
the hindu caste system had it right.
spiritual people should run the society, not the merchant/warrior industrial complex.
ok sooo
Who decides who is "spiritual" exactly?
revelarts
03-29-2023, 01:00 PM
We've done this before. How I think it should be has little to do with how it is. I have always stood up to bullies because it is the only way to handle them. Not standing up to them only empowers them to bully more and take more.
... I believe in lending a helping hand to those in need, and defending from evil assholes that cannot defend themselves, when and where I can and that certainly is not <em>my </em>opinion. There's whole Book on the subject
So which bullies in the world today do you think U.S. should stand up too?
There are plenty in many countries.
Which oppressive dictatorships should we overthrow or free?
Maybe oppressive bullies like Saudi Arabia who oppress women, Christians & dissidents and have attacked Yemen?
Should we "stand up" "lend a helping hand" there?
Or is it only certain country's who've been Invaded where you think we should draw our line in the sand?
It's your belief, I'm trying to get handle on. YOUR views on what should be done. in your imperfect world with your imperfect solutions.
I'm trying to understand it. If you can make a clear case for when and where, I might agree with you.
But so far your outrage at the bullies empowerment, and the "standing up" lending a hand" seems RANDOM and inconsistent.
But your outrage and support does somehow seems to often align well with neo-cons & western oligarchs stated desires and corporate advancement around the world.
Their growth & expansion & power goals seems clear.
They seem opportunistic, based on world events, and they are not always as successful as they plan but they are moving the ball in the direction that seems to align with their goals.
And it seems to me they don't care very much about bullies or those in need,
but they do run those concerns 'up the flag pole' to get support from portions of the U.S. public when it's convenient.
Look, just give me a list of Bullies YOU think the U.S. should deal with?
Or the general LEVEL of Bullying and anti-freedom that you think the U.S. should generally step in with Billions or Weapons or Boots?
Is it whenever the U.S. President says so,
or when the media show a lot of distressing pictures,
or when you hear from military types saying problem is "big"?
or when a country you don't trust does something you don't like... enough?
Look we both know that the gov't will ignore BOTH of us.
So I'm just trying to get some clarity on Your MORE OBJECTIVE point of view, which we all should consider the right way to do things.
Gunny
03-31-2023, 08:23 AM
So which bullies in the world today do you think U.S. should stand up too?
There are plenty in many countries.
Which oppressive dictatorships should we overthrow or free?
Maybe oppressive bullies like Saudi Arabia who oppress women, Christians & dissidents and have attacked Yemen?
Should we "stand up" "lend a helping hand" there?
Or is it only certain country's who've been Invaded where you think we should draw our line in the sand?
It's your belief, I'm trying to get handle on. YOUR views on what should be done. in your imperfect world with your imperfect solutions.
I'm trying to understand it. If you can make a clear case for when and where, I might agree with you.
But so far your outrage at the bullies empowerment, and the "standing up" lending a hand" seems RANDOM and inconsistent.
But your outrage and support does somehow seems to often align well with neo-cons & western oligarchs stated desires and corporate advancement around the world.
Their growth & expansion & power goals seems clear.
They seem opportunistic, based on world events, and they are not always as successful as they plan but they are moving the ball in the direction that seems to align with their goals.
And it seems to me they don't care very much about bullies or those in need,
but they do run those concerns 'up the flag pole' to get support from portions of the U.S. public when it's convenient.
Look, just give me a list of Bullies YOU think the U.S. should deal with?
Or the general LEVEL of Bullying and anti-freedom that you think the U.S. should generally step in with Billions or Weapons or Boots?
Is it whenever the U.S. President says so,
or when the media show a lot of distressing pictures,
or when you hear from military types saying problem is "big"?
or when a country you don't trust does something you don't like... enough?
Look we both know that the gov't will ignore BOTH of us.
So I'm just trying to get some clarity on Your MORE OBJECTIVE point of view, which we all should consider the right way to do things.
Clarity? Chasing rabbits down holes does not provide clarity. Neither does using critical theory to twist actual events into something they aren't.
I've gone to lengths at times to try and understand the side of the argument you have chosen and it always comes back to "self". Mine comes back to "others as well/much as self". Not a lot more I can say that doesn't usually turn into a personal pissing contest. Based on my beliefs, there isn't really even a choice as to which is right.
revelarts
03-31-2023, 09:31 AM
Clarity? Chasing rabbits down holes does not provide clarity. Neither does using critical theory to twist actual events into something they aren't.
I've gone to lengths at times to try and understand the side of the argument you have chosen and it always comes back to "self". Mine comes back to "others as well/much as self". Not a lot more I can say that doesn't usually turn into a personal pissing contest. Based on my beliefs, there isn't really even a choice as to which is right.
If You're not going to give me an answer and only concern yourself with trying to divine the "real" motives for my POV,
then you might want to consider thinking about the motives of the politicians rather than mine.
After you come to some honest conclusions about theirs, the motives behind my POV will have more reality than your current assessment.
BTW
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FsiOvzCWYAAJzxi?format=jpg
Billions, Bombs, and Boots.
what the "real" motivation?
"freedom"?
Gunny
04-01-2023, 11:31 AM
If You're not going to give me an answer and only concern yourself with trying to divine the "real" motives for my POV,
then you might want to consider thinking about the motives of the politicians rather than mine.
After you come to some honest conclusions about theirs, the motives behind my POV will have more reality than your current assessment.
BTW
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FsiOvzCWYAAJzxi?format=jpg
Billions, Bombs, and Boots.
what the "real" motivation?
"freedom"?
How many times do I have to give you the same answers? This isn't even the 3rd time we've had this same conversation. My "conclusions" are quite straightforward, fact-based and honest. Just as the "real motives for your POV" are daylight obvious by your own words.
If you aren't willing to fight for freedom or support those who are, you don't deserve any of your own.
revelarts
04-25-2023, 09:20 PM
For Freedom!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ft0zoxpWYAIHZZf?format=jpg&name=small
(this news is banned on facebook btw.. and not reported widely in other media)
Also Tons of US & NATO arms sent to Ukraine have been discovered have been sold/found all over Europe.
Gunny
04-26-2023, 08:12 AM
For Freedom!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ft0zoxpWYAIHZZf?format=jpg&name=small
(this news is banned on facebook btw.. and not reported widely in other media)
Also Tons of US & NATO arms sent to Ukraine have been discovered have been sold/found all over Europe.
Seymour Hersh :rolleyes: Still trying to repeat his success from 1969, even if he has to make it up.
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