No tents, no aid, nothing: Why Syrians feel forgotten

[Gunny]

Ain't war and politics grand for the civilians caught in a natural disaster between two idiots fighting over a line on a map?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-64616897

[Gunny]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-64615349

[fj1200]

Dictators suck!

[revelarts]

God Help them.

Be nice if U.S. lifted sanctions for 5 minutes to help.

But hey Saddam is ..I mean Assad is an evil dictator so if we help his people and the victims it looks like were helping him so ... MORALLY... we can't do that.
that's how it works right?
maybe if the his people suffer enough they'll overthrown him?

[fj1200]

Be nice if U.S. lifted sanctions for 5 minutes to help.

You think that's the problem?

[Gunny]

God Help them.

Be nice if U.S. lifted sanctions for 5 minutes to help.

But hey Saddam is ..I mean Assad is an evil dictator so if we help his people and the victims it looks like were helping him so ... MORALLY... we can't do that.
that's how it works right?
maybe if the his people suffer enough they'll overthrown him?The biggest issue is Syria being Russia's warm water port. It wasn't for differences in ideology Putin propped Assad up against ISIS. He's been looking to spread his version of the Soviet Union when and wherever.

Assad is hostile to the US and any direct US supported would be greeted as hostile and/or politically subversive.

This would be a good job for that august body of "Nations" (aka pointless and useless bureaucrats), the UN. As a matter of fact, I think it IS the UN's job. Since we foot its bill, funneling aid through those worthless f*cks might see some of it actually get there. Maybe.

Not to forget, Erdogan sits on that border and in fact occupies some Syrian territory and it's a REAL touchy subject with that whack job. Don't want to upset his touchy ass. He's apparently already under the gun in Turkey with an upcoming election.

Problem for Erdogan is the Syrian refugees created by this quake are most likely Kurds and they have nowhere to go. They're stuck between the Syrian and Turkish governments. Not sure what's left of the kurds in Northern Iraq we used to protect until Trump dumped them the same way Biden did Afghans that supported the US.

[revelarts]

You think that's the problem?

Are US sanctions HELPING the earthquake victims FJ?


The biggest issue is Syria being Russia's warm water port. It wasn't for differences in ideology Putin propped Assad up against ISIS. He's been looking to spread his version of the Soviet Union when and wherever.

Assad is hostile to the US and any direct US supported would be greeted as hostile and/or politically subversive.

This would be a good job for that august body of "Nations" (aka pointless and useless bureaucrats), the UN. As a matter of fact, I think it IS the UN's job. Since we foot its bill, funneling aid through those worthless f*cks might see some of it actually get there. Maybe.

Not to forget, Erdogan sits on that border and in fact occupies some Syrian territory and it's a REAL touchy subject with that whack job. Don't want to upset his touchy ass. He's apparently already under the gun in Turkey with an upcoming election.

Problem for Erdogan is the Syrian refugees created by this quake are most likely Kurds and they have nowhere to go. They're stuck between the Syrian and Turkish governments. Not sure what's left of the kurds in Northern Iraq we used to protect until Trump dumped them the same way Biden did Afghans that supported the US.

all good points,

the U.N. Should be there.
But the U.S. is a problem still since no one wants to go against our wishes/sanctions right?

We sorta did the same to those starving and without medical care in Iraq for years under Saddam.

personally, I'd have no problem stopping funds going to Ukraine for a month to send some help to the victims in Syria.
Stop the funds forever to get help into OHIO for that chemical mess there now.


BTW don't we still have troops in Syria near the Turkish boarder around the OIL fields?

[revelarts]

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/02/10/wppv-f10.html

As Syria digs earthquake victims from the rubble, US occupation denies access to direly needed energy supplies

Some 900 American soldiers are deployed in Syria, the vast majority of them at a base in the middle of the al-Omar oil field, the country’s largest, in the eastern province of Deir Ezzor. They are supplemented by special forces operators and other units that are routinely rotated in and out of the country from among the 30,000 US military personnel deployed in the region under the US Central Command (CENTCOM).

The Western media has reported that Russian troops deployed in Syria with the permission and in support of the Syrian government have thrown themselves into the relief effort, while social media videos have shown them working alongside Syrian civilians to pull people from beneath collapsed buildings. The media has failed to pose the question: what are the American forces doing?

A CENTCOM spokesman, Army Col. Joe Buccino, told Newsweek that “the thoughts and prayers of the US Central Command team are with the people of Turkey and Syria in this critical moment.”

CENTCOM posted a statement on its website February 8, two days after the earthquake, headlined “CENTCOM Prepares to Support Earthquake Relief,” meaning that whatever relief arrives will come after those buried in the rubble have died. And this relief will flow exclusively to Turkey.

Outside of “thoughts and prayers,” the only things that CENTCOM is offering the people of Syria is bombs, shells and bullets, along with barbaric conditions of imprisonment for some 65,000 people, according to a recent report by Human Rights Watch. Most of them are women and children, arbitrarily held by the US and its Kurdish proxies as suspected ISIS (Islamic State) supporters. US troops are remaining in their bases, while Buccino insists that CENTCOM has received no requests for aid....


https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/08/05/kurds-oil-syria-us-troops-trump/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEh3qEOwNSE

[Gunny]

Are US sanctions HELPING the earthquake victims FJ?



all good points,

the U.N. Should be there.
But the U.S. is a problem still since no one wants to go against our wishes/sanctions right?

We sorta did the same to those starving and without medical care in Iraq for years under Saddam.

personally, I'd have no problem stopping funds going to Ukraine for a month to send some help to the victims in Syria.
Stop the funds forever to get help into OHIO for that chemical mess there now.


BTW don't we still have troops in Syria near the Turkish boarder around the OIL fields?

Once again, you confuse your "perfect World" with boots on the ground, begrudgingly acknowledging the latter only when given no choice. In a "perfect World", everybody drops what they are doing and helps those in need. We don't live in that World.

Protocol: the US cannot help the people of another nation without going through the government of that nation. The US Federal government cannot/will not even help a US State without a request from the State. The US government uses these technicalities to cherrypick who it helps/supports and who it does not.

Syria/Assad is openly hostile to the US and the US has made no bones about wanting a regime change by the people. As it should be, right? Wouldn't want to be caught with our hands in the coup cookie jar, would we? That would probably burst some of your blood vessels:poke:

Russia has an official, welcome footprint in Syria. The US footprint is part of a coalition effort with no standing presence as "the US". The US presence you speak of is not a humanitarian presence and is conditional. Using probably outdated jargon: a hunter/killer group is in no way prepared to provide humanitarian assistance much better than first aid.

Even if Assad was to go in international TV and state the US could have a free hand providing humanitarian assistance, I seriously doubt it would happen based on politics/ideology. Supporting Syria = supporting Assad.

Not to mention the elephant in the room: possible confrontation between Russian and US troops. THAT would kill a lot more people than the earthquake.

Then there's Turkey, our fair-weather NATO ally and that dictator-lite Erdogan who loves rattling his saber at the US; ESPECIALLY, over protecting kurds. Regardless reasoning, he backed Trump down on the international stage over the kurds. No doubt he would take any money the US offered but it is doubtful direct US humanitarian support which = troops.

This is a political disaster for Erdogan with an election looming. I doubt US politicians are aching to bail him out, which is how it would be viewed. For some reason, our politicians keep thinking anyone else would be better and support his losing the election. Why not? We did it to our own President and look what we got :rolleyes:

Before you get your argument machine up and running full bore as if I am defending how things are, I have not stated once I like any of this crap. The people caught in the middle suffering are pawns of governments that care more about politics than people. It has never been otherwise.

As far as aid to Ukraine goes? Get your boy Putin to stop waging war against civilians that is killing/displacing more people than this earthquake and pour his personnel and resources into helping Syria. Or funding what he's destroyed in Ukraine. I doubt seriously anyone wants Russian troops to help. This pendulum swings both ways.

[fj1200]

Are US sanctions HELPING the earthquake victims FJ?

Sanctions never help the victims of anything. But US sanctions aren't keeping the rest of the world from providing aid and I have a sneaking suspicion that we'd be there in a heart beat if Assad would just ask. Whcih leads us back to sanctions; sanctions don't help victims because dictators don't give a crap about their people.

[revelarts]

Once again, you confuse your "perfect World" with boots on the ground, begrudgingly acknowledging the latter only when given no choice. In a "perfect World", everybody drops what they are doing and helps those in need. We don't live in that World.

Protocol: the US cannot help the people of another nation without going through the government of that nation. The US Federal government cannot/will not even help a US State without a request from the State. The US government uses these technicalities to cherrypick who it helps/supports and who it does not.

Syria/Assad is openly hostile to the US and the US has made no bones about wanting a regime change by the people. As it should be, right? Wouldn't want to be caught with our hands in the coup cookie jar, would we? That would probably burst some of your blood vessels:poke:

Russia has an official, welcome footprint in Syria. The US footprint is part of a coalition effort with no standing presence as "the US". The US presence you speak of is not a humanitarian presence and is conditional. Using probably outdated jargon: a hunter/killer group is in no way prepared to provide humanitarian assistance much better than first aid.

Even if Assad was to go in international TV and state the US could have a free hand providing humanitarian assistance, I seriously doubt it would happen based on politics/ideology. Supporting Syria = supporting Assad.

Not to mention the elephant in the room: possible confrontation between Russian and US troops. THAT would kill a lot more people than the earthquake.

Then there's Turkey, our fair-weather NATO ally and that dictator-lite Erdogan who loves rattling his saber at the US; ESPECIALLY, over protecting kurds. Regardless reasoning, he backed Trump down on the international stage over the kurds. No doubt he would take any money the US offered but it is doubtful direct US humanitarian support which = troops.

This is a political disaster for Erdogan with an election looming. I doubt US politicians are aching to bail him out, which is how it would be viewed. For some reason, our politicians keep thinking anyone else would be better and support his losing the election. Why not? We did it to our own President and look what we got :rolleyes:

Before you get your argument machine up and running full bore as if I am defending how things are, I have not stated once I like any of this crap. The people caught in the middle suffering are pawns of governments that care more about politics than people. It has never been otherwise.

As far as aid to Ukraine goes? Get your boy Putin to stop waging war against civilians that is killing/displacing more people than this earthquake and pour his personnel and resources into helping Syria. Or funding what he's destroyed in Ukraine. I doubt seriously anyone wants Russian troops to help. This pendulum swings both ways.


I've got no problem with ANY of what you said.
Wanting to give and the ability to give are 2 very different things.

But don't skip the fact that my question starts "in the real world" asking about U.S. sanctions.
We CAN drop those "in the real world" gunny, even if it's temporarily.

[revelarts]

Sanctions never help the victims of anything. But US sanctions aren't keeping the rest of the world from providing aid and I have a sneaking suspicion that we'd be there in a heart beat if Assad would just ask. Whcih leads us back to sanctions; sanctions don't help victims because dictators don't give a crap about their people.


Aid to quake-hit Syria slowed by sanctions, war’s divisions
https://apnews.com/article/politics-syria-government-united-states-bashar-assad-e1bd001643fd8386e8ccb1fcd2a922f3

feb9
Treasury Issues Syria General License 23 To Aid In Earthquake Disaster Relief Efforts
https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy1261

WASHINGTON – Today, Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) issued Syria General License (GL) 23, which authorizes for 180 days all transactions related to earthquake relief that would be otherwise prohibited by the Syrian Sanctions Regulations (SySR).

“Our deepest condolences go out to the people of Türkiye and Syria for the tragic loss of life and destruction in the wake of devastating earthquakes,” said Deputy Secretary of the Treasury Wally Adeyemo. “As international allies and humanitarian partners mobilize to help those affected, I want to make very clear that U.S. sanctions in Syria will not stand in the way of life-saving efforts for the Syrian people. While U.S. sanctions programs already contain robust exemptions for humanitarian efforts, today Treasury is issuing a blanket General License to authorize earthquake relief efforts so that those providing assistance can focus on what’s needed most: saving lives and rebuilding.”...
moving in the right direction

real world, not 'perfect' world

We all should be aiming for a perfect one though, and pointing our "leaders" toward it as well.
We end up closer to the targets we aim for.

[jimnyc]

Unfortunate byproduct of living in a terrorist state.

[Gunny]

I've got no problem with ANY of what you said.
Wanting to give and the ability to give are 2 very different things.

But don't skip the fact that my question starts "in the real world" asking about U.S. sanctions.
We CAN drop those "in the real world" gunny, even if it's temporarily.


Aid to quake-hit Syria slowed by sanctions, warÂ’s divisions
https://apnews.com/article/politics-syria-government-united-states-bashar-assad-e1bd001643fd8386e8ccb1fcd2a922f3

feb9
Treasury Issues Syria General License 23 To Aid In Earthquake Disaster Relief Efforts
https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy1261

moving in the right direction

real world, not 'perfect' world

We all should be aiming for a perfect one though, and pointing our "leaders" toward it as well.
We end up closer to the targets we aim for.

"feel good" Band Aid for folks such as yourself.

Sanctions are political. Especially now, our politicians can't get it together long enough to do what is right for our own country, much less anyone else's. Whichever side of the aisle that proposed lifting sanctions (which BTW I would not support), would have to cave in on some irrelevant, pet project to the other side of the aisle to get support.

In the meantime, anything we do without military control on the ground is dubious at best. As much of that is possible will end up in the pockets of Assad/his regime. IF we went so far as to physically hand out stuff to the people, the second we turned our backs local warlords or the government (depending on who is in control of the area at the time) will swoop in and confiscate as much as they can. They keep it for themselves and/or sell what's left at black market prices to those who can pay. Saw that first hand in Mogadishu.

I keep stating the same thing about a "perfect World". Whose "perfect World"? Mine? Yours? A Turkish earthquake victim's vs a Syrian earthquake victim's? Assad's vs Erdogan's? In that, you are no different than anyone you are constantly criticizing. You would force your ideology on everyone else because it's what you think is right based on your Worldview.

I have no desire to live in your "perfect World", preferring mime. Multiply that times the number of people on Earth.

Where politics/power and control run head-long into the needs/desires of the people, the people always get screwed. Our own government is a perfect example. Even where relief from a natural disaster is concerned. The people don't come first. They never have.

[revelarts]

"feel good" Band Aid for folks such as yourself.
Gunny?
OK
why do you keep painting me in some negative extreme?
At 1st You misread my words and say I WANT to Gov't to DO TOO MUCH and i'm not In the REAL WORLD.
Then you say what i want is a USELESS "Feel Good" BAND AID. and assume I'm FOR sanctions in general.

um Gunny what's your problem?
Please stop misreading my words & trying to make me out to be some BS caricature of person with uninformed views in outer space.
You're better than that And you know better.

We disagree on the FRAMING of various events and actions and the possible fixes. fine.
But don't make up BS about my POV.




Sanctions are political. Especially now, our politicians can't get it together long enough to do what is right for our own country, much less anyone else's. Whichever side of the aisle that proposed lifting sanctions (which BTW I would not support), would have to cave in on some irrelevant, pet project to the other side of the aisle to get support.

In the meantime, anything we do without military control on the ground is dubious at best. As much of that is possible will end up in the pockets of Assad/his regime. IF we went so far as to physically hand out stuff to the people, the second we turned our backs local warlords or the government (depending on who is in control of the area at the time) will swoop in and confiscate as much as they can. They keep it for themselves and/or sell what's left at black market prices to those who can pay. Saw that first hand in Mogadishu.

I keep stating the same thing about a "perfect World". Whose "perfect World"? Mine? Yours? A Turkish earthquake victim's vs a Syrian earthquake victim's? Assad's vs Erdogan's? In that, you are no different than anyone you are constantly criticizing. You would force your ideology on everyone else because it's what you think is right based on your Worldview.

I have no desire to live in your "perfect World", preferring mime. Multiply that times the number of people on Earth.

Where politics/power and control run head-long into the needs/desires of the people, the people always get screwed. Our own government is a perfect example. Even where relief from a natural disaster is concerned. The people don't come first. They never have.

Gunny, I have NO CLUE what YOU think I'm talking about Gunny.
Or what your vision of perfect world or actions are
or why the idea of them bothers you.

But if i can make my POV a bit clearer for you. 1st of all, there will be no perfect world until Jesus returns. period.
HOWEVER WHILE WE ARE HERE. we all have been commanded by him to be moving TOWARDS perfection, in our own imperfect way, RIGHT HERE on earth.
Maybe God has told you something different.
But in my mind that means trying to DO the GOOD the best way we can, for the MOST PEOPLE, in whatever circumstance we find ourselves in right here.
Politics and war are NOT exceptions.
everyone being christians or acting right or not is no excuse. We PROMOTE the BEST as we understand it.

In this case in my mind It means TRYING to get assistance to victims EVEN if it means SOME or ALL doesn't get through.
Even it only means opening small cracks legally to help a few.
It means prioritizing the people's lives OVER geopolitics, especially in an emergency,
EVEN if it means loses geopolitical or political ground.
Even if it's only temporarily.
(BTW somehow we've managed to secure Syrian oil fields "uninvited" and imprison thousands of Syrians in their country, but somehow we can do NOTHING good? really?)

But Gunny, you can put the highest priority on punishing Assad and securing the warm water ports, oil fields, and whatever you think is "right for our country" and for Syria politically.
Fine. Enjoy promoting political imperfection and cynical imperialist pragmatism.

But really i don't get the knee jerk negative reaction and you going to piss on wanting to do a bit of good.
Is it because I point out some of our country's pragmatic imperfect political & military actions and say out loud that we're often not much better than the "tyrants"?

anyway,
Did i mention that I've never been a fan of sanctions.
And BTW Assad is not Saddam he's never really attacked his own people. (Kurds mybe an exception) But the Terrorist in his nation that have. And the U.S. supported and trained and armed many of them.
Heck his nation had been a haven for the Christians in the Middle East.
But hey. He's friends with Russia and not nice to Israel,
& has a warm water PORT... (how dare he.) so he's a horrible tyrant who must be stop. whatever.

[Gunny]

Gunny?
OK
why do you keep painting me in some negative extreme?
At 1st You misread my words and say I WANT to Gov't to DO TOO MUCH and i'm not In the REAL WORLD.
Then you say what i want is a USELESS "Feel Good" BAND AID. and assume I'm FOR sanctions in general.

um Gunny what's your problem?
Please stop misreading my words & trying to make me out to be some BS caricature of person with uninformed views in outer space.
You're better than that And you know better.

We disagree on the FRAMING of various events and actions and the possible fixes. fine.
But don't make up BS about my POV.




Gunny, I have NO CLUE what YOU think I'm talking about Gunny.
Or what your vision of perfect world or actions are
or why the idea of them bothers you.

But if i can make my POV a bit clearer for you. 1st of all, there will be no perfect world until Jesus returns. period.
HOWEVER WHILE WE ARE HERE. we all have been commanded by him to be moving TOWARDS perfection, in our own imperfect way, RIGHT HERE on earth.
Maybe God has told you something different.
But in my mind that means trying to DO the GOOD the best way we can, for the MOST PEOPLE, in whatever circumstance we find ourselves in right here.
Politics and war are NOT exceptions.
everyone being christians or acting right or not is no excuse. We PROMOTE the BEST as we understand it.

In this case in my mind It means TRYING to get assistance to victims EVEN if it means SOME or ALL doesn't get through.
Even it only means opening small cracks legally to help a few.
It means prioritizing the people's lives OVER geopolitics, especially in an emergency,
EVEN if it means loses geopolitical or political ground.
Even if it's only temporarily.
(BTW somehow we've managed to secure Syrian oil fields "uninvited" and imprison thousands of Syrians in their country, but somehow we can do NOTHING good? really?)

But Gunny, you can put the highest priority on punishing Assad and securing the warm water ports, oil fields, and whatever you think is "right for our country" and for Syria politically.
Fine. Enjoy promoting political imperfection and cynical imperialist pragmatism.

But really i don't get the knee jerk negative reaction and you going to piss on wanting to do a bit of good.
Is it because I point out some of our country's pragmatic imperfect political & military actions and say out loud that we're often not much better than the "tyrants"?

anyway,
Did i mention that I've never been a fan of sanctions.
And BTW Assad is not Saddam he's never really attacked his own people. (Kurds mybe an exception) But the Terrorist in his nation that have. And the U.S. supported and trained and armed many of them.
Heck his nation had been a haven for the Christians in the Middle East.
But hey. He's friends with Russia and not nice to Israel,
& has a warm water PORT... (how dare he.) so he's a horrible tyrant who must be stop. whatever.So many places to begin. I could write a small, dime-store sized, 180-page paperback in response to this. Since you want to make this about you; rather, me ...

Nothing would make my day more than for you to be 110% correct and me 110% wrong. I'll gladly eat that bullet. Sorry if I infuse reality into your utopian dreams; which, IS a problem. Dealing with reality helps. Dealing with how you want things to be doesn't accomplish jack shit.

You bring up a good point. However, you don't "bring up our country's "imperfect political and military actions". You vilify the country. There's a difference. It also supports my argument that the Biden Admin is reacting to people like you who are incessantly whining "What's the US doing?" every time somebody needs something. Otherwise we suck. We still suck because no matter what we do it isn't enough. But I'm the negative one, right?

Here's your altruistic Biden Admin: https://hotair.com/david-strom/2023/...saster-n531229 (https://hotair.com/david-strom/2023/02/16/biden-administration-refusing-to-help-in-east-palestine-disaster-n531229) (I freely admit to absconding with Kathianne's link to illustrate a point :))

Our people. Out in the middle of winter in Ohio (which just sucks), sucking chemicals through their lungs and drinking water and what's the Biden Admin doing? "Not my job, man":rolleyes: Biden's and the left's policies created this. This shit should be in a pipeline, not on a train.

Yet you think this same idiot and his cronies in the Executive Branch released some of Syria's own money to the government of Syria for some altruistic reason? CYA political posturing. "The US President did something" in the international media. Apparently that doesn't extend to giving a damn about our own people.

This is the government you are so damned-sure is out to poison the entire population with a vaccine. That's in cahoots with some NWO. The bad guys in every war. According your posts over the years on the topic we're just always conspiring to commit no good against the people of anywhere and deprive them of their Rights.

Now you're apologizing for Assad.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashar_al-Assad

Go for it :rolleyes:

My point remains: the people are in need and their worst enemies at the moments are governments. I'm not a genius because I know how to read and learn from it. Nor because I can divorce my personal desires from reality to deal with the latter since practically, that is where I live.

[Gunny]

Just when you're feeling sorry for them, Turks gotta be Turks :rolleyes:


Among them is Reem, who with her nine-month old baby wrapped in a blanket, said she was travelling back to Syria after her home in Turkey was destroyed.



She told the BBC she believed hostility towards Syrians in Turkey had grown since the earthquake.


"We tried to find another place to stay but they [the Turkish] kept chasing us away asking us to return to Syria," she said.


"We tried staying at mosques but they kicked us out. They also didn't give us any tents. Should I stay in the street with my children? Where should we go?"



full article: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-64675517