Trump Organization entities found guilty on all counts of tax fraud, will appeal

[Gunny]

As I've said from the beginning: they're going to get him for something. Anything. I'm surprised they didn't go off on this witch hunt first.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/trump-organization-entities-found-guilty-all-counts-tax-fraud

[SassyLady]

As I've said from the beginning: they're going to get him for something. Anything. I'm surprised they didn't go off on this witch hunt first.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/trump-organization-entities-found-guilty-all-counts-tax-fraud
I hope this opens the door to investigate all the presidents and their investments as well as members of Congress.

[Gunny]

I hope this opens the door to investigate all the presidents and their investments as well as members of Congress.He is a former President. He had immunity while in office. This is the leftwingnut state of NY going after his business to get him. Of course it is politically motivated but you'll never get one of them to admit it.

Having worked for developers/contractors, I knew this was going to be easy enough. They're by and large shady at a minimum. The disclaimer Trump is trying to hide behind works for most of them most of the time.

I suspect it will open the door to carte blanche investigate Republican Presidents. The Republicans won't do anything about it.

[LostInSeattle]

He is a former President. He had immunity while in office. This is the leftwingnut state of NY going after his business to get him. Of course it is politically motivated but you'll never get one of them to admit it.

Having worked for developers/contractors, I knew this was going to be easy enough. They're by and large shady at a minimum. The disclaimer Trump is trying to hide behind works for most of them most of the time.

I suspect it will open the door to carte blanche investigate Republican Presidents. The Republicans won't do anything about it.

The President is not immune to criminal prosecution at either the state or federal levels, while in office. From this site: https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S3-5-1/ALDE_00013392/
"Nonetheless, Chief Justice Marshall recognized that while the President could be subject to a criminal subpoena, the President could still withhold information from disclosure based on executive privilege.11 (https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S3-5-1/ALDE_00013392/#ALDF_00023816) In the two centuries since the Burr trial, the Executive Branch’s practices12 (https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S3-5-1/ALDE_00013392/#ALDF_00023817)and Supreme Court rulings unequivocally and emphatically endorsed Chief Justice Marshall’s position that the President was subject to federal criminal process.13 (https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S3-5-1/ALDE_00013392/#ALDF_00023818) In its 2020 opinion in Trump v. Vance, the Court extended this precedent to state criminal proceedings, concluding that the President was not absolutely immune from state criminal subpoenas.14 (https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S3-5-1/ALDE_00013392/#ALDF_00023819)"

iWhy do you say that NY is going after his business to get to him? Isn't the role of the Manhattan DA to prosecute crimes? Apparently, there was a lot of crime in the Trump organization, as evidenced by the 17 guilty verdicts. Anyone who knows anything about Trump's shady as fuck business history - and there is plenty documented for decades before he became a national figure - won't be in the least surprised by this outcome.

[fj1200]

I hope this opens the door to investigate all the presidents and their investments as well as members of Congress.

The door is already open. And this wasn't about investments; it was about how crappily, allegedly, that he ran his business.

[Gunny]

The President is not immune to criminal prosecution at either the state or federal levels, while in office. From this site: https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S3-5-1/ALDE_00013392/
"Nonetheless, Chief Justice Marshall recognized that while the President could be subject to a criminal subpoena, the President could still withhold information from disclosure based on executive privilege.11 (https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S3-5-1/ALDE_00013392/#ALDF_00023816) In the two centuries since the Burr trial, the Executive Branch’s practices12 (https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S3-5-1/ALDE_00013392/#ALDF_00023817)and Supreme Court rulings unequivocally and emphatically endorsed Chief Justice Marshall’s position that the President was subject to federal criminal process.13 (https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S3-5-1/ALDE_00013392/#ALDF_00023818) In its 2020 opinion in Trump v. Vance, the Court extended this precedent to state criminal proceedings, concluding that the President was not absolutely immune from state criminal subpoenas.14 (https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S3-5-1/ALDE_00013392/#ALDF_00023819)"

iWhy do you say that NY is going after his business to get to him? Isn't the role of the Manhattan DA to prosecute crimes? Apparently, there was a lot of crime in the Trump organization, as evidenced by the 17 guilty verdicts. Anyone who knows anything about Trump's shady as fuck business history - and there is plenty documented for decades before he became a national figure - won't be in the least surprised by this outcome.Technically correct. In practice, not so much. Irrelevant either way.

Relevant to my comment: They could have skipped the millions of wasted tax dollars on the Russian Collusion hoax and other bullshit investigations that just "went away" and gone after his business records from the start. It ain't rocket science if I can figure it out right out of the gate.

But then, they're the professionals, right?

[Gunny]

The door is already open. And this wasn't about investments; it was about how crappily, allegedly, that he ran his business."Crappily"? I doubt sincerely it was run any more shady than anyone else's in his position. But he's Donald Trump . That's different.

Whatever will the Dems do without him? :rolleyes:

Rhetorical, dumb question. They'll gin up some other bullshit to carry on about and drum into everyone's heads.

[fj1200]

"Crappily"? I doubt sincerely it was run any more shady than anyone else's in his position. But he's Donald Trump . That's different.

Whatever will the Dems do without him? :rolleyes:

Rhetorical, dumb question. They'll gin up some other bullshit to carry on about and drum into everyone's heads.

Right, should have been 'illegally.' My B. :thumb:

[Gunny]

Right, should have been 'illegally.' My B. :thumb:I have only one problem with that: I don't believe anything the left does to Donald Trump. I most certainly don't take the word of a NY Dem. They'll convict on name alone.

I certainly hope they go after all NY criminals with such zeal :rolleyes:

I'd seriously like to read the actual court docs and see the actual evidence and charges.

[fj1200]

I have only one problem with that: I don't believe anything the left does to Donald Trump. I most certainly don't take the word of a NY Dem. They'll convict on name alone.

I certainly hope they go after all NY criminals with such zeal :rolleyes:

I'd seriously like to read the actual court docs and see the actual evidence and charges.

Weisselberg flipped.

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/18/1117948260/allen-weisselberg-trump-employee-pleads-guilty-felony

[Gunny]

Weisselberg flipped.

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/18/1117948260/allen-weisselberg-trump-employee-pleads-guilty-felony
"Under and agreement made with prosecutors" he'll serve 5 months and 5 years probation. That has no credibility with me.

Point: I want Trump to keep doubling down and running his mouth about the Constitution and sink his own damned boat BEFORE the Dems make a martyr of him. Not hard math.

[fj1200]

"Under and agreement made with prosecutors" he'll serve 5 months and 5 years probation. That has no credibility with me.

Point: I want Trump to keep doubling down and running his mouth about the Constitution and sink his own damned boat BEFORE the Dems make a martyr of him. Not hard math.

He was caught dead to rights deal or no deal. But I think it'll be he'll fade away drip, drip, drip from both sides. His vaunted :rolleyes: business acumen and former POTUS status are being eroded and mostly by his own doing.

[LostInSeattle]

Technically correct. In practice, not so much. Irrelevant either way.

Relevant to my comment: They could have skipped the millions of wasted tax dollars on the Russian Collusion hoax and other bullshit investigations that just "went away" and gone after his business records from the start. It ain't rocket science if I can figure it out right out of the gate.

But then, they're the professionals, right?

"They" who? This recent prosecution was brought by the Manhattan DA. The Mueller Investigation was run by the DOJ. The GOP-led Senate Intelligence committee also had a long investigation into Russia interference in the 2016 election, which was not in any way bullshit.

You seem to be forgetting that the Trump org is privately held, so getting access to records of financial transactions was incredibly difficult, made more so by Trump's refusal to release his tax returns like every other Presidential candidate since Carter. In 2018, the NYT published an expose of Trump's sketchy inheritance, an article which was possible only because an insider (his sister, Mary), collaborated with the paper. This led to the NY state tax agency to begin a review of the allegations.

In 2019, Vance supoened Trump's accounts for his tax records, and only in August 2020 did the SCOTUS rule that the records could be released to prosecutors.

This kind of thing takes time, even more so when the subject is the POTUS.

[Gunny]

"They" who? This recent prosecution was brought by the Manhattan DA. The Mueller Investigation was run by the DOJ. The GOP-led Senate Intelligence committee also had a long investigation into Russia interference in the 2016 election, which was not in any way bullshit.

You seem to be forgetting that the Trump org is privately held, so getting access to records of financial transactions was incredibly difficult, made more so by Trump's refusal to release his tax returns like every other Presidential candidate since Carter. In 2018, the NYT published an expose of Trump's sketchy inheritance, an article which was possible only because an insider (his sister, Mary), collaborated with the paper. This led to the NY state tax agency to begin a review of the allegations.

In 2019, Vance supoened Trump's accounts for his tax records, and only in August 2020 did the SCOTUS rule that the records could be released to prosecutors.

This kind of thing takes time, even more so when the subject is the POTUS.Since you want to walk in after last call demanding a drink and a dance without a clue ...

I seriously doubt you want Trump out of the picture more than I do just as I am equally sure it's for very different reasons.

I don't know which I despise more ... Donald Trump being in the picture for the GOP, or the GOP allowing him to be, or the hypocrisy of the left. It all smells the same.

[LostInSeattle]

Since you want to walk in after last call demanding a drink and a dance without a clue ...

I don't know what you're talking about but if you don't want to engage then just say so. Preferably politely. This is a discussion board after, isn't all? Or is it just a sounding board for Gunny?


I seriously doubt you want Trump out of the picture more than I do just as I am equally sure it's for very different reasons.

Non sequitur? What does this have to do with anything I've said? You made several factually inaccurate assertions, referenced some conspiracy theories, complained about the process, and patted yourself on the back for being smarter than everyone else in the legal system. Then you get irritated and dismissive because I call you on it.

I want Trump out of the picture because he's toxic to the American political process and has completed the ruination of a once great party. His departure won't solve anything, but it's a start.


I don't know which I despise more ... Donald Trump being in the picture for the GOP, or the GOP allowing him to be, or the hypocrisy of the left. It all smells the same.

I guess you'll just have to wrestle with your uncertainty.

[Gunny]

I don't know what you're talking about but if you don't want to engage then just say so. Preferably politely. This is a discussion board after, isn't all? Or is it just a sounding board for Gunny?



Non sequitur? What does this have to do with anything I've said? You made several factually inaccurate assertions, referenced some conspiracy theories, complained about the process, and patted yourself on the back for being smarter than everyone else in the legal system. Then you get irritated and dismissive because I call you on it.

I want Trump out of the picture because he's toxic to the American political process and has completed the ruination of a once great party. His departure won't solve anything, but it's a start.



I guess you'll just have to wrestle with your uncertainty.I must have missed where I have told you or anyone else what to or not to post. Post away to your little heart's delight. You don't get to dictate responses to those posts anymore than I do mine. After it's a discussion board :)

You called me on something? You are referring to pointing to a law on the books that is selectively enforced, like most other laws on the books? I acknowledged you are technically correct. Not going to get more than that though due to the disparity between what's on the books and what's put into practice.

Imagine if you will, a Dem, NYC DA all gung-ho about enforcing the law. Must be from out of town or didn't get the memo. All that scenario is missing is Rod Serling.

Establishment GOP needs to turn its back on Trump. First, it needs a leader. the current clusterf*ck hasn't accomplished anything since the 90s. There's no political platform - collective "we stand for _____". Just "we're not them". Since the 90s. An organized, led GOP doesn't have a Donald Trump calling shots, much less as representative of conservatives.

Allowing the Dems to bumble their way into taking out our trash after a decade is NOT leadership; rather, it's shirking the responsibility of it. Just more of the same as will be the results at the polls.